Author Topic: Charged $140 for the privilege of being a Paypal victim of fraud!  (Read 18233 times)

Bazinga

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Charged $140 for the privilege of being a Paypal victim of fraud!
« on: September 02, 2009, 11:13:06 AM »
Some thoughts for this thread on Ebays CS "Charged $140 for the privilege of being a Paypal victim of fraud!".

http://forums.ebay.com.au/topic/Community-Spirit/Charged-140-For/600122186&start=0

The first thing I would do is get a police report relating to the fraud.

Next I would contact both paypal and my bank demanding the return of funds and OD fees.

Failing that a complaint to the 
Financial Ombudsman Service http://www.fos.org.au/centric/home_page.jsp

Bazinga

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Re: Charged $140 for the privilege of being a Paypal victim of fraud!
« Reply #1 on: September 02, 2009, 11:26:37 AM »
A question from Holydooly  How can 0-9 be safer than a-z and their variantsl

A combination of letters and numbers is safer because a common method to hack accounts is to use a dictionary attack to get passwords.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------

brisneygirl  Well I have had two different passwords hacked and both have been a long combination of numbers and letters. I thought they would have been sufficient.

This doesn't help when you either give your details to a fake site from a fake email OR you go to an unsafe site that has scripts to capture your usernames and pass words store in your browser.

Never let your browser store passwords for important things.

next method is a keystroke logger, again this is normally loaded from dodgy sites.

There are 2 ways to avoid these when conducting banking or important business.

The first is to have passwords stored in a text document and then use copy & paste to insert them, this can be stored on a USB drive so its not on your computer.

Second and even better if you dint want sensitive info stored on your computer or else where is to use the on screen key board,  this is under START/ PROGRAMS / ACCESABILITY/ ON SCREEN KEYBOARD.

Bazinga

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Re: Charged $140 for the privilege of being a Paypal victim of fraud!
« Reply #2 on: September 02, 2009, 11:30:41 AM »
And most important is to use a different password for every site you are registered with.

Use a different email address for paypal and only use it for paypal, the fake fake emails that come to your regular email address are easily idenified as fakes when its the wrong account they are addressed to.

cueperkins

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Re: Charged $140 for the privilege of being a Paypal victim of fraud!
« Reply #3 on: September 02, 2009, 11:32:45 AM »
Thanks Hawk, this does need discussion...the way I look at it....correct me if I've got it wrong....someone hacked into this person's account, and took the funds...and as a result she copped overdrawn fees right?..if not, please fill in the gaps....

She should first contact her bank and notify them of the issue that exists with Paypal security and which caused the overdrawn fees in the first place.....They would no doubt be very interested, given that Paypal generally requires CC or B/account backing up their accounts etc.  Banks have their own security centre, so she needs to speak to them first, and then request the removal of the fees.

Then BFSO...absolutely.....re:  General complaint regarding account security..the OP should also put in their banks' reply re:  how they view the security issue with Paypal and whether they'll remove the fees, if not, then include them in the complaint. 

It's the bank that needs to waive the fees, and Paypal need to account for their laxidasical, idea of account security that led to the imposition of bank fees.... if neither cooperate, then both need to be reported to BFSO.  But I'd report this Paypal security breach to BFSO, irrespective of whether the OP get's her money back...it's the actual security issue that BFSO need to be advised of.

I'd also then contact police, but not the local ones....Scamwatch isn't it?...I've lost most of the links I researched last year.  In fact the Bank itself might be able to advise on the best way to report the fraud.

*CountessA*

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Re: Charged $140 for the privilege of being a Paypal victim of fraud!
« Reply #4 on: September 02, 2009, 12:45:04 PM »
Hawk, excellent points.

A bank customer should not be up for fees relating to an account being overdrawn through fraud. If the client has done as much as possible to minimise the fraud and avoid it from occurring, PayPal needs to be held accountable for permitting the fraud.

1. It is unlikely that the PayPal account was hacked. What is most possible is that a keylogger is on her computer, and every time she entered her password, that information was sent straight to a third party (as Hawk has stated). It's also possible (again, as Hawk has stated) that this person did inadvertently enter her password onto a phishing site.

2. To establish which are likely, the following needs to be considered:
  a. When did you or anyone on your computer last visit a new site? Did you know that many sites about celebrities (popular sites) are specifically designed to lure visitors, and that merely visiting the site is enough to install a nasty on your computer? THINK... which sites have you been visiting? Is it at all possible that you've visited a popular site and become an inadvertent host to a keylogger, or trojan, or other information-gathering or malicious-information-sending malware or virus?
  b. When did you or anyone on your computer download something "free" from an internet site? There is a good reason why one one should avoid "free" downloads - be very careful, because you do NOT know what else is being downloaded silently and invisibly at the same time. Again, keyloggers, trojans, virus, malwares... it can all happen without your knowing.
  c. Is your anti-virus / anti-malware / anti-trojan protection up to date and does it give good protection? Run a full scan. Be suspicious rather than complacent. If your anti-virus is NOT up to date, download the latest updates and run a full scan. Also check your computer at one of several authenticated sites to see whether anything nasty crops up. If it does, and your own protection didn't pick it up, you need to think about different anti-virus protection.
  d. Did you reply to any suspicious email? Did you click onto any links in any emails at all? NEVER NEVER do that... This is classic phishing scam technique.
  e. Have you recently received an email alerting you to suspicious activity in your account, or telling you that your account details needed to be checked? And did you follow the links? NEVER NEVER NEVER do that - because if you did, you fell victim to a phishing scam.

"No man is an Iland, intire of it selfe; every man is ...a part of the maine; ...any mans death diminishes me, because I am involved in Mankinde"

*Yibida*

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Re: Charged $140 for the privilege of being a Paypal victim of fraud!
« Reply #5 on: September 02, 2009, 01:08:37 PM »

Seal of disapproval......


tellomon

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Re: Charged $140 for the privilege of being a Paypal victim of fraud!
« Reply #6 on: September 02, 2009, 01:23:26 PM »
Hey! You stole that from me!
Bad Flash Zombies :flasher: :zombieguy:  .    No  :lblb: .

*Yibida*

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Re: Charged $140 for the privilege of being a Paypal victim of fraud!
« Reply #7 on: September 02, 2009, 01:27:38 PM »
Hey! You stole that from me!

No I didn't.. I found it on another thread, it wasn't bolted down and no one was looking so I took it !....

Bazinga

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Re: Charged $140 for the privilege of being a Paypal victim of fraud!
« Reply #8 on: September 02, 2009, 01:29:05 PM »
a. When did you or anyone on your computer last visit a new site? Did you know that many sites about celebrities (popular sites) are specifically designed to lure visitors, and that merely visiting the site is enough to install a nasty on your computer?

The most common sites to pick up nasties from are porn and hack sites that offer pirated software or codes to make trial vesions of software into full versions.

One that few are aware of is the use of children to install nasties,

this is done by offereing kids free games to play, kids dont know the dangers involved and will happily download dozens of free games, any can contain monitoring software that records and sends info back to the hacker.




Bazinga

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Re: Charged $140 for the privilege of being a Paypal victim of fraud!
« Reply #9 on: September 02, 2009, 01:30:14 PM »
Hey! You stole that from me!

would it be posible to stay on topic for once???

tellomon

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Re: Charged $140 for the privilege of being a Paypal victim of fraud!
« Reply #10 on: September 02, 2009, 01:46:48 PM »
Hey! You stole that from me!

No I didn't.. I found it on another thread, it wasn't bolted down and no one was looking so I took it !....

Right. And who posted it to that thread?
I did.
And I am looking.
You swiped it!
Confess!!!!!
Bad Flash Zombies :flasher: :zombieguy:  .    No  :lblb: .

*CountessA*

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Re: Charged $140 for the privilege of being a Paypal victim of fraud!
« Reply #11 on: September 02, 2009, 02:13:51 PM »
 :topic:

TOPIC...

Keep Symantec's page bookmarked. The ever-growing list of computer nasties is a rude shock for those who believe it's safe on the internet without protection. The URL is http://www.symantec.com/security_response/threatexplorer/azlisting.jsp. (That's the "A" page. Click onto each letters at the top of the page to see the nasties beginning with B-, C-, etc.)

Latest risks: http://www.symantec.com/norton/security_response/threatexplorer/index.jsp


Misleading applications: http://www.symantec.com/norton/theme.jsp?themeid=mislead

Actually, it's worth my pasting that entire page across, for the benefit of everyone here. Be aware - you can be sure you're on a legitimate page, but you're anything BUT.



Misleading Applications – What you need to know


Misleading applications can sneak onto your computer as you surf the Web. Once installed, scammers use them to commit fraud and identity theft. Here’s what you need to know to guard against spyware and other misleading applications.

Introduction

Have you ever seen a strange security message pop up like an advertisement while you're surfing the web? Have you seen an unexpected balloon message appear from an unknown program on your system, telling you that you’re infected with a new threat? These are common tactics used by a type of program Symantec calls "misleading applications" and other people refer to as “Rogue Software” or “Rogue Anti-Virus”. These programs typically sneak onto their victims’ systems while they surf the web, masquerade as a normal Microsoft Windows alert, or otherwise trick people into downloading them onto their computer. Once installed, misleading applications exaggerate or make false claims about the security status or performance of your system, then promise to solve these bogus problems if you pay them.

What are misleading applications?

Misleading applications intentionally misrepresent the security status of a computer. Misleading applications attempt to convince the user that he or she must remove potentially malware or security risks (usually nonexistent or fake) from the computer. The application will hold the user hostage by refusing to allow him or her to remove or fix the phantom problems until the “required” software is purchased and installed. Misleading applications often look convincing—the programs may look like legitimate security programs and often have corresponding websites with user testimonials, lists of features, etc.

How they Attack


Misleading applications typically strike people when they are surfing the web. There is not a single type of website where these applications are found, but they are more common from sites offering pirated goods and adult content, as well as blogs and forums. They can even sneak into advertisements on legitimate sites, usually through banner ads at the top of Web page. In order to get installed onto a system, a person is usually either tricked into downloading the program (thinking it’s something else) or a small program called a “Downloader” is installed by the attacker through an un-patched flaw in the person’s web browser. This is often known as a “drive-by” install.

Misleading applications often are not the first unwanted program to land on a person’s system. A Downloader, such as Trojan.Zlob or Downloader.MisleadApp, infect the system first and then download the misleading application to the computer. Once the downloaded application is installed and ready, the malware that installed it will inform the user that they are infected with a new, previously unknown threat. This can be done through a “balloon message” that appears in the lower right-hand side of the system. The misleading application will then present itself and either pretend to download or run a scan of the system.

The scan results produced by the misleading application may be entirely false or may include some real issues affecting the system, but will always exaggerate the problems on the system and refuse to fix them until the vendor is paid and a registration key is entered into the program.

Why are they dangerous?

Misleading applications, sometimes called rogue software or rogue anti-virus, trick consumers into believing a problem exists on their system. Consumers who trust the messages are tricked into purchasing bogus applications for resolution of the problems they have been duped into believing exist. Misleading applications scam consumers out of money, faking the existence of problems and failing to deliver the protection they promise. They also create a privacy risk as the victim must provide their credit card information to the scammers in order to register the misleading application and solve the supposed problems.

The victims of misleading applications have paid for software that does not work, handed their personal information to scammers, and are left with a false sense of security that leads them to potentially greater risks from more aggressive threats. Even if a person catches on to the ruse and does not pay the misleading application vendor, the programs can be notoriously difficult to remove without the proper security software.

What To Do

    * Use Norton Internet Security to proactively protect from spyware and other security risks
    * Configure the firewall in Norton Internet Security to block unsolicited requests for outbound communication
    * Be especially cautious when clicking on pop-up advertisements—especially ads promoting system security or performance tools that look like a standard Microsoft Windows alert
    * Do not accept or open suspicious error dialogs from within the browser
    * Purchase security and system performance software from reputable sources
    * Keep software and security patches up to date

List of Misleading applications

    * Antivirus2009
    * AntiVirusXP2008
    * SpySheriff
    * WiniGuard
    * TheRegistrySentinel
    * VirusRemover2008
    * VirusDoctor

PLEASE... don't ever download any of these.
"No man is an Iland, intire of it selfe; every man is ...a part of the maine; ...any mans death diminishes me, because I am involved in Mankinde"

*Yibida*

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Re: Charged $140 for the privilege of being a Paypal victim of fraud!
« Reply #12 on: September 02, 2009, 02:16:22 PM »
Hey! You stole that from me!

No I didn't.. I found it on another thread, it wasn't bolted down and no one was looking so I took it !....

Right. And who posted it to that thread?
I did.
And I am looking.
You swiped it!
Confess!!!!!


Bring out the bamboo splinters !... I ain't spilling my gut's !....

vacuumdog

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Re: Charged $140 for the privilege of being a Paypal victim of fraud!
« Reply #13 on: September 02, 2009, 02:20:50 PM »
Might I suggest to anyone using PayPal that the purchase of a PP security key is a must. AU$7.50 is cheap for the extra peace of mind. There is also a mobile phone version.

https://www.paypal.com/au/cgi-bin/webscr?cmd=xpt/Marketing_CommandDriven/securitycenter/PayPalSecurityKey-outside

This key can also be linked to your eBay account.

*wheels*

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Re: Charged $140 for the privilege of being a Paypal victim of fraud!
« Reply #14 on: September 02, 2009, 04:47:31 PM »
Vacuumdog, thanks for that link. I didn't realise that PayPal had a security key pad. You would think they would promote it more to PayPal/eBay users. I have one for banking with the Bendigo, it was a compulsory part of registering for online banking, and I think it cost $20 at the time.

*Yibida*

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Re: Charged $140 for the privilege of being a Paypal victim of fraud!
« Reply #15 on: September 02, 2009, 05:03:41 PM »
This is from the victim:.....

Maybe you should call the Financial Ombudsman and verify those facts John, as you will find they are incorrect.

Paypal Australia is a member of the scheme and the complaints officer from the Ombudsman gave me a number for the Paypal Sydney office that does not go to their call centre. She wanted me to try there first. She also gave me a number for Comm Bank to try there.

If you go to the Ombudsman's website and search Paypal you will find an annual report for 08/09 stating there were 71 dispute cases closed for Paypal Australia during that period.

If I don't get any joy with either of those then I am to make a written complaint and the Ombudsman will decide who they will chase so that I am not out of pocket.

She also advised that if I do get my fees refunded, then the Ombudsman will essentially have nothing to investigate and I should make a complaint to ASIC about my Paypal security concerns.


And more on the victims security response:.........

I should have said the first time was in 2004 (?). I was concerned it had happened twice with Paypal when I have used other online financial services online for longer without incident.

I have checked for virus/spyware with a few different programs (I work for a software comp so have access to a few programs). But I wonder if it was a virus/spyware, why is it only paypal again? Is it the easiest target? Surely people keep more money in their financial institutions accounts than their paypal a/c, so wouldn't they be more attractive to hit?

cueperkins

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Re: Charged $140 for the privilege of being a Paypal victim of fraud!
« Reply #16 on: September 03, 2009, 08:13:46 AM »
why is it only paypal again? Is it the easiest target?

Yup !!!!!  That's the one.....They won't sign the EFT code, and if they did, they'd have to improve their security and indemnify account holders...they are the WORST in terms of security on the entire net...and yet they promote themselves as the 'safest'?....

The confusion arises because this so called safety they promote, has nothing to do with account security....(which is largely non existent).....it is all about consumer charge backs...nothing more....!!! And we've all seen how deceptive that is haven't we?  Just another way to avoid cleaning up the fraud on ebay and verifying sellers....that's all Paypal is... a lucrative excuse.

Until Paypal sign the EFT code and secure their product from Identity Theft, Fraud and Data interception...they are a total liability.  I guess the only time officialdom will act is when thousands of accounts are hacked into and defrauded.....then they may be reviewed by RBA and ASIC and ordered to improve their security or stop lying to consumers.  Too bad it has to get to that stage before anybody acts to regulate them.  AT the very least, consumers should NOT be extorted into using a payment system that is well below par when it comes to consumer safety.

I noticed one poster on that thread saying that at one time, thousands of Paypal account holders names and details had been published on the Ebay US site, and left there for hours...????...is that true?...unbelievable.

Surely people keep more money in their financial institutions accounts than their paypal a/c, so wouldn't they be more attractive to hit?

Oh...but that's what they're aiming for.....just think about it....I could sign up to Paypal using a totally separate bank account that I've opened purely for that purpose, but that wouldn't protect me.  It's your IDENTITY they're after, and once they get that, what do you think they're going to do then?

Puspal DON'T indemnify you against Identity theft or data transmission....convenient eh?....well that's what you have agreed to in accepting their UA.....and that's why these new 'Unfair Consumer Contract' laws, implemented nationally, are so very important.


*Yibida*

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Re: Charged $140 for the privilege of being a Paypal victim of fraud!
« Reply #17 on: September 03, 2009, 10:23:45 PM »
Some good new's...not a perfect outcome yet but still good....


"""I had a small win today. Comm Bank refunded $70, so I am still out of pocket $70. I think I got lucky cause the telephonist I spoke to at Comm Bank also had money stolen from his a/c and rode the roundabout trying to get his fees refunded, so I think he had a lot of pity for me.

CB want Paypal to meet them halfway with the fees. Paypal are determined not to budge, so I guess I will make a formal complaint with the Ombudsman and ASIC.

Comm Bank and the Ombudsman asked if I had reported it to the police. Do you think I should?"""


""I registered at the other site yesterday but haven't been given keys to the door (awaiting approval).""
...... I'm not sure what this sentence refers to?...ozrt?....Countess? thoughts?...

*CountessA*

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Re: Charged $140 for the privilege of being a Paypal victim of fraud!
« Reply #18 on: September 04, 2009, 09:17:35 AM »
I can't see a new account awaiting approval - has something gone amiss?

It's good news on the partial victory! But I agree it would be fitting for PayPal to come part of the way in addressing the issue of fees.
"No man is an Iland, intire of it selfe; every man is ...a part of the maine; ...any mans death diminishes me, because I am involved in Mankinde"

cueperkins

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Re: Charged $140 for the privilege of being a Paypal victim of fraud!
« Reply #19 on: September 04, 2009, 12:56:52 PM »
I do hope that the OP of that thread still reports the security issue as well as the request for refund to the FSO....the complaint should include the fact that it was Paypal's security issue that led to the overdrawn fees. Cause=Effect....If the Paypal account hadn't been hacked, the consumer wouldn't have incurred the fee.  More particularly the case if she's done everything required of her to mitigate...i.e. safe password, decent virus scanner, hasn't pressed any links in phishing emails.   At the very least..Paypal should be required to investigate the hacking issue objectively and find out how it occurred...shouldn't they?

If people don't inform the FSO, they can't amass evidence of systemic issues with Paypal's security, and refer them to ASIC...If enough CONSUMERS complain, then ASIC will investigate....they also administer the EFT Code of conduct, and recommended during the Paypal only rebellion that Paypal sign the code of conduct...they declined of course.  So, it isn't a new concept that Paypal should sign the EFT code, it came from the authority that administers it....sooner or later, with enough complaints, Paypal's reverse all imaginable liability 'User Agreement', may be brought into question.   

The whole point of the EFT code, is to protect US, against account hacking, identity theft and fraud...(which Paypal's UA removes itself from altogether).....it also protects us against unconscionable conduct by banks and other financial institutions.  Why wouldn't we all want Paypal to abide by that?  Until they do, I'll never consider being a customer.

Paypal itself should be called to account, and provide this consumer with a guarantee against any future hacking attempt, or put it in writing that they won't or don't provide that level of safety.   Let Paypal tell the ombudsman what they are doing to protect consumers....that would be a very short point list now wouldn't it?. 




Liisa-Sx

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Re: Charged $140 for the privilege of being a Paypal victim of fraud!
« Reply #20 on: September 04, 2009, 09:00:42 PM »
The OP has signed up for entry here at ozroundtable but has not apparently as yet had their membership confirmed.
They said there would be cake....and there WAS!

*CountessA*

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Re: Charged $140 for the privilege of being a Paypal victim of fraud!
« Reply #21 on: September 04, 2009, 10:31:58 PM »
Checking - that particular ID was confirmed yesterday; just double-checking that the email notification was sent correctly...?
"No man is an Iland, intire of it selfe; every man is ...a part of the maine; ...any mans death diminishes me, because I am involved in Mankinde"

brisneygirl

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Re: Charged $140 for the privilege of being a Paypal victim of fraud!
« Reply #22 on: September 05, 2009, 07:45:24 PM »
Hi - I am the OP from ebay's chatboard.

Thank you for the messages pointing me in this direction. 

I have skimmed through this thread and seen some great advice and plan on coming back later tonight or tomorrow and reading through thoroughly (got to run now as I am supposed to be somewhere).   

But before I go, I will reinforce that I plan to make formal complaints to whoever will listen.  I haven't made a police report, but plan on making one as soon as I get the letter from CBA stating that even though the transactions were fraudulent, they are only going to refund half of the fees and expect paypal to refund the other $70.

I estimate I have spent 4-5hrs on the phone to various organisations trying to get this sorted.  I am so fed up and feel sorry for the people that aren't as persistant and would just wear the fees.  I am seriously considering trying to get some media coverage for this to highlight what can happen if you accept paypal's UA.

Another thing that is very alarming is so many people have told me about paypal horror stories similar to mine (even the telephonist at CBA had his a/c hacked(?) and money stolen).



   

 

cueperkins

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Re: Charged $140 for the privilege of being a Paypal victim of fraud!
« Reply #23 on: September 05, 2009, 07:51:27 PM »
Hi Brisneygirl....good to see you found your way in here...and great to see that you intend to take this further...if you need help or advice feel free to ask or email...Cheers

tellomon

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Re: Charged $140 for the privilege of being a Paypal victim of fraud!
« Reply #24 on: September 05, 2009, 07:54:40 PM »
This board needs more girls -- and we're getting them!

 :yess:
Bad Flash Zombies :flasher: :zombieguy:  .    No  :lblb: .

*barny*

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Re: Charged $140 for the privilege of being a Paypal victim of fraud!
« Reply #25 on: September 05, 2009, 08:41:52 PM »
'Natural laws have no pity.' --Robert Heinlein

Hello Ron... I see your a science fiction buff as well..

 :wine:
If you try to fail, and succeed, what have you done ??

tellomon

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Re: Charged $140 for the privilege of being a Paypal victim of fraud!
« Reply #26 on: September 05, 2009, 09:33:19 PM »
Yeah, I have a few movies.
(My faves are: The Thing, Maximum Overdrive, Terminator, Alien, The Island, Killdozer [very hard to find], & Ghosts of Mars.)

I swiped the quote from http://www.darwinawards.com/misc/quote.html.

Stay on topic.
Yib & I got spanked recently for messing up this thread.
Don't be next.

 :evil:
Bad Flash Zombies :flasher: :zombieguy:  .    No  :lblb: .

*Yibida*

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Re: Charged $140 for the privilege of being a Paypal victim of fraud!
« Reply #27 on: September 05, 2009, 10:53:53 PM »
First of all a BIG HI brisney !.... we have been expecting you and have followed your case / story.... we always keep a finger on the pulse and we don't don't miss much.... please feel free to ask the members here which have been Obeyers for many years... there's not much we haven't seen, some of us are sellers also so you will get the correct answers not guesses ... I don't know how far back you go with Obey but you may remember or have heard of the great rebellion, when Obey tried unsuccessfully to make Paypus the only payment system, well most of the members here were the thorn in Obeys side, if it wasn't for the efforts of the guy's here and some still over yonder Paypus would now be the only way to pay over the dark side, you won't get slapped here for voicing your concerns as over there, once your over this episode myself and the other members hope you stick around, we don't just do Ebay subjects here... if you look around the site you will see we have a ball as well... we love a good laugh amongst each other and you won't find a friendlier bunch of people on any other site......  Welcome !

tellomon

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Re: Charged $140 for the privilege of being a Paypal victim of fraud!
« Reply #28 on: September 05, 2009, 11:01:55 PM »
Yeah, and stay ON topic.
Bad Flash Zombies :flasher: :zombieguy:  .    No  :lblb: .

*Ubbie Max*

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Re: Charged $140 for the privilege of being a Paypal victim of fraud!
« Reply #29 on: September 06, 2009, 12:31:44 AM »
G'day Brisney girl. Welcome aboard.
 :pirateship:

As Yib said, there is a lot of fun to be had on the OZ Roundtable.
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This is me in a happy mood.

*CountessA*

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Re: Charged $140 for the privilege of being a Paypal victim of fraud!
« Reply #30 on: September 06, 2009, 02:44:20 AM »
Welcome, Brisneygirl!

I'm glad to hear you're not going to take this loss without doing battle. Too many times we can stymie ourselves before even taking up the fight, and that can't help anyone. Standing on our consumer rights (which ought to protect us against fraud) is never just an individual victory. I look forward to hearing what happens next, and please let us know if you're not sure about any step in the process.

We'll probably all be chipping in with advice regardless...
"No man is an Iland, intire of it selfe; every man is ...a part of the maine; ...any mans death diminishes me, because I am involved in Mankinde"

*FluffyDuckee*

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Re: Charged $140 for the privilege of being a Paypal victim of fraud!
« Reply #31 on: September 06, 2009, 03:37:01 AM »
Welcome to the site Brisneygirl.    :quack: :welcome!: :welcomedesk: :welcome: :kisshug:

We do have lots of fun and it's great to give and receive advice without fear.

Hope it all works out for you.
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tellomon

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Re: Charged $140 for the privilege of being a Paypal victim of fraud!
« Reply #32 on: September 06, 2009, 10:24:22 AM »
Lots of colorful characters here, and not a one of them is **PINK**!!!!!!
Bad Flash Zombies :flasher: :zombieguy:  .    No  :lblb: .

brisneygirl

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Re: Charged $140 for the privilege of being a Paypal victim of fraud!
« Reply #33 on: September 06, 2009, 02:10:08 PM »
Thank you for the welcome. 

I welcome any suggestions/tips you have on how I can proceed with this.

Does anyone know if there is a state police dept who has an operation/task-force aimed at cyber crime?

   

brisneygirl

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Re: Charged $140 for the privilege of being a Paypal victim of fraud!
« Reply #34 on: September 06, 2009, 02:12:58 PM »
Some thoughts for this thread on Ebays CS "Charged $140 for the privilege of being a Paypal victim of fraud!".

http://forums.ebay.com.au/topic/Community-Spirit/Charged-140-For/600122186&start=0

The first thing I would do is get a police report relating to the fraud.

Next I would contact both paypal and my bank demanding the return of funds and OD fees.

Failing that a complaint to the 
Financial Ombudsman Service http://www.fos.org.au/centric/home_page.jsp

Getting a police report as soon as I have the documentation from CBA (should be here this week).

Have contacted paypal numerous times and they argue they are CBA's fees so there is nothing they can do about it (CBA actually advise that Paypal have covered their fees before in similar matters ?!?)

I have already sought advice from the ombudsman and will be making a complaint as soon as I have the police report.

brisneygirl

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Re: Charged $140 for the privilege of being a Paypal victim of fraud!
« Reply #35 on: September 06, 2009, 02:25:11 PM »
A question from Holydooly  How can 0-9 be safer than a-z and their variantsl

A combination of letters and numbers is safer because a common method to hack accounts is to use a dictionary attack to get passwords.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------

brisneygirl  Well I have had two different passwords hacked and both have been a long combination of numbers and letters. I thought they would have been sufficient.

This doesn't help when you either give your details to a fake site from a fake email OR you go to an unsafe site that has scripts to capture your usernames and pass words store in your browser.

Never let your browser store passwords for important things.

next method is a keystroke logger, again this is normally loaded from dodgy sites.

There are 2 ways to avoid these when conducting banking or important business.

The first is to have passwords stored in a text document and then use copy & paste to insert them, this can be stored on a USB drive so its not on your computer.

Second and even better if you dint want sensitive info stored on your computer or else where is to use the on screen key board,  this is under START/ PROGRAMS / ACCESABILITY/ ON SCREEN KEYBOARD.

My password was a long combination of letters and numbers.  I have not followed a link from an email.  My password was unique to paypal and not stored on my PC.

Two days prior to the fraud I made a purchase from Deal Extreme.
http://www.dealextreme.com/

Contact us:
TO: DealExtreme
Room 225-226, Block B, Focal Industrial Centre
21 Man Lok street
Hung Hom, Kowloon
Hong Kong

Funnily enough when I logged into my paypal a/c, this was one transaction:
Payment To ? ?

And parts of my paypal account were changed to some Asian language.  The transactions were from Quebec, where they mainly speak French I beleive.

Anyway, I mentioned this to Paypal and was assured there wasn't a connection.....

cueperkins

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Re: Charged $140 for the privilege of being a Paypal victim of fraud!
« Reply #36 on: September 06, 2009, 02:28:32 PM »
Hi Again Brisney...I'd be including that  information in your complaint to police and also to the ombudsman.   It might be a good idea to check out the seller too, so I'll let you know what we find out.

brisneygirl

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Re: Charged $140 for the privilege of being a Paypal victim of fraud!
« Reply #37 on: September 06, 2009, 02:40:40 PM »
Hawk, excellent points.

A bank customer should not be up for fees relating to an account being overdrawn through fraud. If the client has done as much as possible to minimise the fraud and avoid it from occurring, PayPal needs to be held accountable for permitting the fraud.

1. It is unlikely that the PayPal account was hacked. What is most possible is that a keylogger is on her computer, and every time she entered her password, that information was sent straight to a third party (as Hawk has stated). It's also possible (again, as Hawk has stated) that this person did inadvertently enter her password onto a phishing site.

2. To establish which are likely, the following needs to be considered:
  a. When did you or anyone on your computer last visit a new site? Did you know that many sites about celebrities (popular sites) are specifically designed to lure visitors, and that merely visiting the site is enough to install a nasty on your computer? THINK... which sites have you been visiting? Is it at all possible that you've visited a popular site and become an inadvertent host to a keylogger, or trojan, or other information-gathering or malicious-information-sending malware or virus?
  b. When did you or anyone on your computer download something "free" from an internet site? There is a good reason why one one should avoid "free" downloads - be very careful, because you do NOT know what else is being downloaded silently and invisibly at the same time. Again, keyloggers, trojans, virus, malwares... it can all happen without your knowing.
  c. Is your anti-virus / anti-malware / anti-trojan protection up to date and does it give good protection? Run a full scan. Be suspicious rather than complacent. If your anti-virus is NOT up to date, download the latest updates and run a full scan. Also check your computer at one of several authenticated sites to see whether anything nasty crops up. If it does, and your own protection didn't pick it up, you need to think about different anti-virus protection.
  d. Did you reply to any suspicious email? Did you click onto any links in any emails at all? NEVER NEVER do that... This is classic phishing scam technique.
  e. Have you recently received an email alerting you to suspicious activity in your account, or telling you that your account details needed to be checked? And did you follow the links? NEVER NEVER NEVER do that - because if you did, you fell victim to a phishing scam.




1. Maybe that is true - but why paypal?  They would have found log-in details to far more lucrative sources than a paypal a/c with no money.  They would have gotten details to ANZ, Commbank and Commsec.

2a - I am the only person who uses my laptop.  The last new site I can recall going to was Deal Extreme (see above post).  I visit sites like - ninemsn, news.com.au, ebay, catchoftheday, oo.com.au, facebook etc,.  They are all fairly mainstream.  I don't go to celebrity sites.

2b - I can't recall downloading anything free.  I have downloaded a trial version of software from their own site since, but I then purchased it and everything seems ok.

2c - I have uptodate AVG and run spybot.  I regularly check and nothing untoward has come up.  I also took in into work (I work for a software company) and run whatever they use and it didn't pick anything up apart from some tracking cookies that aren't nasty apparently.  I actually thought we had pretty tight measures on our firewall at home, but I could be wrong (I am married to an IT person too).

2d - I don't click on links from emails.  Even when I got the paypal emails to say these transactions had been made I went directly to the website and logged in.

2e - see point 2d.  I rarely log into paypal directly anyway (except for when I saw these transactions come through).  I only ever log in when prompted through ebay etc when in the process of making a payment. I have never had a paypal transaction not go through, or raise some suspicion of being directed to a fake site.

brisneygirl

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Re: Charged $140 for the privilege of being a Paypal victim of fraud!
« Reply #38 on: September 06, 2009, 02:54:20 PM »
Hi Again Brisney...I'd be including that  information in your complaint to police and also to the ombudsman.   It might be a good idea to check out the seller too, so I'll let you know what we find out.


I will mention it.  I have a friend who has purchased from that site before without incident. 

I should also mention that I become aware of the transactions happening after the two went through.  I logged into my paypal a/c and there wasn't anything I could do.  I did delete/unlink my credit card from paypal, but I couldn't do anything about the bank a/c cause there were payments pending.  I actually rang ANZ (cc company) and told them these transactions were occuring and they made a note of it.  I also rang Commbank and told them the same and they said 'don't worry, they won't go through' which they didn't, but she failed to mention the dishonour fees.  It was midnight when the transactions were going through and paypal phone support closes at 10pm.   

In retrospect I should have left the credit card linked as it is the back-up source, so had it been charged, then I am sure it would have been easier to deal with Visa then CBA and their dishonour fees.

So it feels like a real kick in the guts cause I spent nearly over 1hr on the night it happened trying to minimise the damage as best I could.

brisneygirl

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Re: Charged $140 for the privilege of being a Paypal victim of fraud!
« Reply #39 on: September 06, 2009, 02:56:54 PM »
Oh, and I do plan on venturing out of this thread soon - lol :blush:

tellomon

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Re: Charged $140 for the privilege of being a Paypal victim of fraud!
« Reply #40 on: September 06, 2009, 03:59:15 PM »
Oh, and I do plan on venturing out of this thread soon - lol :blush:

The Yibster and I are here for ya, anticipating your every vent, rant, rave and mood!!!!  :wine:
Bad Flash Zombies :flasher: :zombieguy:  .    No  :lblb: .

cueperkins

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Re: Charged $140 for the privilege of being a Paypal victim of fraud!
« Reply #41 on: September 06, 2009, 04:26:00 PM »
Oh, and I do plan on venturing out of this thread soon - lol :blush:

The Yibster and I are here for ya, anticipating your every vent, rant, rave and mood!!!!  :wine:

And we're here to make sure they behave emselves !!!

cueperkins

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Re: Charged $140 for the privilege of being a Paypal victim of fraud!
« Reply #42 on: September 06, 2009, 04:28:43 PM »
Brisney girl...we may be onto something...but...can you message me the Ebay User ID of the seller?  (don't post it here...just email me via the site message system).

*Yibida*

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Re: Charged $140 for the privilege of being a Paypal victim of fraud!
« Reply #43 on: September 06, 2009, 05:52:11 PM »
Oh, and I do plan on venturing out of this thread soon - lol :blush:

The Yibster and I are here for ya, anticipating your every vent, rant, rave and mood!!!!  :wine:

And we're here to make sure they behave emselves !!!


 Bris...Cupies referring to Tello ... I'm the innocent one that gets blamed when Tello is off the leash and run's amuck...... 

*CountessA*

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Re: Charged $140 for the privilege of being a Paypal victim of fraud!
« Reply #44 on: September 06, 2009, 06:40:48 PM »
Brisneygirl, I've included contact information for the Ombudsman and for reporting online fraud to the police - in this thread.
"No man is an Iland, intire of it selfe; every man is ...a part of the maine; ...any mans death diminishes me, because I am involved in Mankinde"

*wheels*

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Re: Charged $140 for the privilege of being a Paypal victim of fraud!
« Reply #45 on: September 06, 2009, 07:06:27 PM »
Brisneygirl, I've just googled your seller's name and their is almost identical question about unauthorised PayPal transactions in a forum in July. There was no answers to their question, but it sounds like a bit more than a coincidence to me. I would be making sure PayPal are aware of your suspicions.
http://forums.slickdeals.net/showthread.php?sduid=0&t=1454637

*Yibida*

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Re: Charged $140 for the privilege of being a Paypal victim of fraud!
« Reply #46 on: September 06, 2009, 07:13:54 PM »
Brisneygirl, I've just googled your seller's name and their is almost identical question about unauthorised PayPal transactions in a forum in July. There was no answers to their question, but it sounds like a bit more than a coincidence to me. I would be making sure PayPal are aware of your suspicions.
http://forums.slickdeals.net/showthread.php?sduid=0&t=1454637

Excellent work wheels !

Comment from the thread you found:....

""Greetings, Was wondering if anyone has had any fraud activity on their paypal account right after ordering something from DealExtreme? I've had two charges on my Paypal account show up on the same day (today actually) after making an order with DealExtreme about a week and a half ago. I've ordered from DX before without any probs . just can't remember if I used my Paypal account at checkout. This may be a major coincidence but I'm suspicious/paranoid/etc.""


There is much more to this fraud than meets the eye.... there could be many others that accepted what happened to them and never followed through !....

cueperkins

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Re: Charged $140 for the privilege of being a Paypal victim of fraud!
« Reply #47 on: September 06, 2009, 07:23:40 PM »
There's a few more connections than that wheels.... another member has located several retail sites with different names, but identical addresses in Hong Kong or relationships to this seller...the plot thickens. 


*wheels*

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Re: Charged $140 for the privilege of being a Paypal victim of fraud!
« Reply #48 on: September 06, 2009, 07:35:26 PM »
And another complaint from Feb 2009 - same scenario - made a purchase, paid by PayPal, then followed by fraudulent transactions.

http://www.complaintsboard.com/complaints/my-grant-search-c170025.html

cueperkins

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Re: Charged $140 for the privilege of being a Paypal victim of fraud!
« Reply #49 on: September 06, 2009, 07:40:37 PM »
The sellers name dealextreme is not registered on Ebay, so we are assuming they are using a different name there, but there are several others on Ebay that link back to dealextreme....Brisney will have to let us know the sellers name on Ebay and we'll see if anything else links up.

Great work Wheels...and also to the other member who will reveal themselves if they feel inclined...or maybe not...lol