Author Topic: Second chance offers -- To accept or not.  (Read 12371 times)

*barny*

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Second chance offers -- To accept or not.
« on: May 14, 2009, 10:18:27 AM »
Good morning folks,

Yesterday I bid on an item on the UK site... And during the night received the usual e-mails from ebay.. bid confirmation, you have not won...Blah blah...

But within half an hour I received another email (message) which was a second chance offer in the form of a BIN for the amount of my maximum bid...

I believe the seller (a power seller) was shilling....

Now, should I accept the SCO, as I was prepared to pay the amount of the BIN during the original auction ??  Or should I reject the offer, so as not to support shilling ??

Cheers


If you try to fail, and succeed, what have you done ??

da_ewok

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Re: Second chance offers -- To accept or not.
« Reply #1 on: May 14, 2009, 10:21:10 AM »
whatever you were prepared to pay - if you think you have been shilled and will have trouble finding the same product - then buy it as long as it is within the price you think is acceptable

If you think you have been wronged - report it - or ignore the second chance offer

OR.......... it is possible that the seller has multiples of the same item and it avoiding listing fees

Your call
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*barny*

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Re: Second chance offers -- To accept or not.
« Reply #2 on: May 14, 2009, 10:32:16 AM »
Thanks for reply Ewok,

I did think of the mutiple items thingie. But, it is a rare and unusual item, so I don't think so (but possible).

Cheers
If you try to fail, and succeed, what have you done ??

brumbymg

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Re: Second chance offers -- To accept or not.
« Reply #3 on: May 14, 2009, 11:57:08 AM »
If it's a rare item and it is unlikely for a seller to have two (or more), then your concerns about shilling are understandable.

It may be that the winning bidder was a real bidder with remorse.
It may be that the winning bidder was a shill.

Only eBay could check that out properly.

Or it may be that the seller did, indeed, have two items - but only put one up to see what bidding would have been made on it.  If the final bid was low or it didn't sell, they would re-think how to sell the other one - but they may have been pleased with the result and happy to offer the second one for the price of the second-chance offer.  I have a seller that has been in that situation on some rarer publications they have.

Also, see if their feedback gives any indication of dodginess.


As for your decision to buy - I can understand your caution even if you are comfortable with the seller. My approach is this:

- When I bid, I snipe, fully aware of the process of determining my bid price and following the philosophy "Bid for a win and hope for a bargain". If I get pushed to my maximum, then that's the risk I accepted.

- However, with a second chance offer, that risk no longer exists - it is now a certainty. I WILL pay my maximum.  I then look at it as a BIN purchase and assess the asking price as such.

Hope this helps.

regulus*

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Re: Second chance offers -- To accept or not.
« Reply #4 on: May 14, 2009, 11:58:38 AM »
Hi Barney,

I often accept second chance offers. However I do know that the sellers have more of the item. Sometimes I even wait to get one rather than bid again.

I would only be suspicious if the item was not something there could be another of.

Keep an eye on the sellers feedback and see if the buyer leaves feedback, just to put your mind at rest.

*barny*

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Re: Second chance offers -- To accept or not.
« Reply #5 on: May 14, 2009, 12:58:15 PM »
Thanks for your replies,

I should have included this earlier... Item number 250417769247...Look at the bidding history. There was only me and "bidder 1" interested

Bear in mind I received a second chance offer only half an hour after the end of the original auction. So I doubt that buyer remorse is a factor...

Cheers
If you try to fail, and succeed, what have you done ??

Bellagina

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Re: Second chance offers -- To accept or not.
« Reply #6 on: May 14, 2009, 09:46:21 PM »
I just had a look at it barny..

the only thought that popped into my head was, "gee, if they can sell these for that much, I wonder how much it would cost to get some of these made???"


*barny*

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Re: Second chance offers -- To accept or not.
« Reply #7 on: May 15, 2009, 08:45:05 AM »
Good thought Bella,

I recently shopped about for my car club to get some made... Paint on chrome, about $25... Plasticoat enamel (as these are) around $60 for one colour, and upwards for multicolour.

But the snag is... you must buy a minimum of 100..

Cheers
If you try to fail, and succeed, what have you done ??

*barny*

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Re: Second chance offers -- To accept or not.
« Reply #8 on: May 16, 2009, 11:16:55 AM »
Hello,

I thought I'd better let peoples know what I did in regard to the second chance offer..

Well, I took the selfish way out, because I really wanted the item, I accepted the offer, even though I believe I had been "shilled". And it was within my maximum first bid.

Now another question has come to mind... After I have received notification that my item has been posted, should I, or should I not, report the seller to eBay for shill bidding ??

Cheers
If you try to fail, and succeed, what have you done ??

brumbymg

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Re: Second chance offers -- To accept or not.
« Reply #9 on: May 16, 2009, 11:50:28 AM »
Interesting question. Haven't worked through it in my own mind - but here are the basic observations I have made:

On one hand, to have suspected shill bidding and reported it is one thing. For an auction item, the winning bidder has a responsibility to complete the sale - and if shill bidding was suspected, there is that question of whether to complete the sale or not.

However, with a second chance offer, you have the opportunity to reflect on the evidence before commiting to purchase. It might be seen as condoning the practice if you go ahead, in which case eBay might put it on the 'We don't really want to spend time on this' pile.

*barny*

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Re: Second chance offers -- To accept or not.
« Reply #10 on: May 16, 2009, 11:59:35 AM »
Yes Brumby,

It Is a question of ethics.... I have taken advantage to get something I want.  Is it ethical to report the seller, after the deal ??

After all, it could be said that you can only be shilled if you let it happen..

Cheers
If you try to fail, and succeed, what have you done ??

*wheels*

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Re: Second chance offers -- To accept or not.
« Reply #11 on: May 16, 2009, 12:09:11 PM »
Barny, I'm not convinced the seller was bumping up the price. Generally, if a seller is going to do it you can see a history of it on their other sales but I don't see that. Your seller has had a lot of sales from just the one bid. Or then again, maybe they just wanted to make sure the brick was going to hand over lotsa cash!  :evil:

*barny*

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Re: Second chance offers -- To accept or not.
« Reply #12 on: May 16, 2009, 12:30:01 PM »
I agree Wheels that there is no history in evidence.. I may well be wrong in my feelings about this seller.

Cheers
If you try to fail, and succeed, what have you done ??

brumbymg

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Re: Second chance offers -- To accept or not.
« Reply #13 on: May 16, 2009, 12:47:45 PM »
Yes, wheels, I was pondering the question as to whether as to whether there was any shilling involved. On a single auction it is a little difficult to tell if it is, simply because the nature of people, their bidding tactics and interest in an item is impossible to predict.

I've noticed even real estate auctioneers can't reliably predict what will happen - even though their very livelihood depends on the outcome and they've got the advantage of seeing the buyers and being able to spruik to a live audience.

You could have been bidding against a genuine buyer who is a nibble bidder. I am also inclined to think this way as the seller started the item at a reasonable amount. Would I be correct in say that if it sold at the starting price, it would have been a reasonable purchase - good value but not a bargain?

I am also thinking that a shiller would start an item at 99 cents, to minimise listing fees. If it didn't sell then they would be less out of pocket. If a bid WAS placed, then they could bid it up.

As for having a second one of these, while I grant you it may be unusual, I could think of a couple of situations where it wouldn't be incredible.


Just my 2 cents' worth (and don't worry - I won't use Paypal for it)

*barny*

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Re: Second chance offers -- To accept or not.
« Reply #14 on: May 16, 2009, 12:52:10 PM »
Good points Brumby,

What set me off was that the second chance offer came within half an hour of the original auction close... Surely the seller could not have established that the winning bidder was not going to proceed that quickly... So, either a shill, or the seller had more than one..

Cheers
 
If you try to fail, and succeed, what have you done ??

Primaryaim

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Re: Second chance offers -- To accept or not.
« Reply #15 on: May 16, 2009, 12:53:33 PM »
It could also be that the winner felt the seller shilled them (Barny's bid) so decided not to buy?

*wheels*

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Re: Second chance offers -- To accept or not.
« Reply #16 on: May 16, 2009, 12:56:55 PM »
Good point Prim!

Barny, Is there another word for "synonym" ???  An anti-antonym maybe?

*barny*

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Re: Second chance offers -- To accept or not.
« Reply #17 on: May 16, 2009, 12:58:42 PM »
Ah Wheels, now a question for you.

If you have pesto and antipasto, do they cancel each other out ??

 :wine:
If you try to fail, and succeed, what have you done ??

brumbymg

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Re: Second chance offers -- To accept or not.
« Reply #18 on: May 16, 2009, 01:02:11 PM »
Yes, Prim - that's a possibility - but their last 3 bids say to me that they just wanted it..

Match Barny's
Beat Barny's
Then up it a bit more - just to be sure.


Barny - I have a seller who I work with that sends out second chance offers in that same sort of time frame. They do it because some buyers may have been around at the finish, have lost out and are feeling a little disappointed .. so they send the second chance offer as soon as possible in order to catch the buyer while the desire is still there - before they resign themselves to having lost out.


"If you have pesto and antipasto, do they cancel each other out ??"
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*CountessA*

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Re: Second chance offers -- To accept or not.
« Reply #19 on: May 16, 2009, 01:05:06 PM »
I've heard of cases where the winning buyer has immediately emailed the seller to say, "Sorry, I won't be buying this. [Insert excuse]" as soon as the invoice is sent.

That may be what's happened here.

On a personal level, it would be unusual for me to accept a Second Chance Offer, because if there's something for which I'm looking and I lose the bidding, I immediately work on an alternative if there is one. For me, the bid I lost is over and done with. It would be different for a unique item, of course.
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*wheels*

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Re: Second chance offers -- To accept or not.
« Reply #20 on: May 16, 2009, 01:08:06 PM »
If you have pesto and antipasto, do they cancel each other out ??

No!
First course: Antipasto platter
Main course: Pasta with Pesto and Pastrami Pizza
Dessert: Pastizzi


*barny*

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Re: Second chance offers -- To accept or not.
« Reply #21 on: May 16, 2009, 01:09:26 PM »
Wheels wins !! 

I can't match that..

 :wine:


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brumbymg

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Re: Second chance offers -- To accept or not.
« Reply #22 on: May 16, 2009, 01:10:45 PM »
Countess - that's why my seller friend gets in quick - to hopefully catch your interest before you look elsewhere.

*barny*

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Re: Second chance offers -- To accept or not.
« Reply #23 on: May 16, 2009, 01:13:21 PM »
I was asleep when the auction ended ( being in UK )..

So, when I signed in in the AM in Aus, I actually saw the SCO before I saw the "you didn't win" notice....

But I certainly see the logic in getting the SCO out PDQ

 :wine:
If you try to fail, and succeed, what have you done ??