Author Topic: Counterfeit Stock  (Read 13276 times)

earthmother

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Counterfeit Stock
« on: January 14, 2011, 02:34:09 PM »
I've just had all my listings removed by ebay on the SUSPICION from the Rights owner in the US that I am selling counterfeit stock.

I've only ever purchased my items from the sole authorised importer from Australasia and have approval from them to sell on ebay.

I am flabbergasted that this has occured, although it has happened to most if not all other sellers of the same item.

I have no idea how many of my customers ebay have contacted but my email account is dinging with the sad feeling that all my hard work over the last six months is going down the gurgler with these customers trying to claw back their money through paypal.  This could number in the hundreds.   :vent: Many of them are selecting the wrong reason for the dispute ie stating they never received the item rather than item is not as described....

I've emailed the rights owner with documentation and evidence of my purchases and cc'd the Australian importer.
I'm responding to all the disputes in paypal as they arrive;
I've notified the importer, my supplier with whom I've dealt with for over 10 years on other products, to inform them that I will be directing all my customers who lodge a claim to call them to verify my stock's authenticity (although the operator I spoke with said she has to wait until her senior manager returns from holidays on Monday);
I've emailed ebay advising them that the accusation is incorrect;

Is there anything I've missed?
Is there anything I don't know?
Any guesses about how this is going to turn out?

*smee*

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Re: Counterfeit Stock
« Reply #1 on: January 14, 2011, 02:41:03 PM »
email the documentation of authenticity and approval to sell from the sole authorised importer to ebay & paypal ... and I doubt that eBay will contact any of your previous customers only the ones who had current bids on the listings that were removed should have been contacted .
likewise I wouldnt worry too much about snad claims through paypal from previous customers as they only have 45 days  from paymentt date to lodge a claim ...see here http://help.ebay.com.au/Help/PayPal/Buying_with_PayPal/Dispute_resolution

*CountessA*

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Re: Counterfeit Stock
« Reply #2 on: January 14, 2011, 02:53:46 PM »
Earthmother, also phone PayPal and insist on speaking with a supervisor to discuss this. (LINK: https://www.paypal.com/au/cgi-bin/helpscr?cmd=_contact-phone)

PayPal phone numbers correct as of January 2010:

(02) 8223 9500 (Australian Toll Rates Apply)
1 800 073 263 (Toll Free Number)
(02) 8223 9555 (Fax Number Australia -- AU Calling Rates Apply)
(02) 8223 9501 (Fax Number Australia -- AU Calling Rates Apply)

PayPal and eBay addresses, correct as of January 2010:

PayPal, Locked Bag 10, ATTN: Error Resolution, Australia Square PO, Sydney, NSW 1215
PayPal, 19 1 York Street, Sydney New South Wales
PayPal / eBay Australia Lawyers: Gadens Lawyers Sydney Pty Limited (ACN 100 963 308), Level 16 Skygarden Bldg., 77 Castlereagh Street, Sydney NSW 2000 DX 364 Sydney, Australia
Phone: 61 2 9931 4999
Fax: 61 2 9931 4888
Chief Operating Officer, Sydney Offices: Ian Dardis, Eidardis@nsw.gadens.com.au
Chairman, Sydney Offices: Ian Clarke, iclarke@nsw.gadens.com.au
"No man is an Iland, intire of it selfe; every man is ...a part of the maine; ...any mans death diminishes me, because I am involved in Mankinde"

tellomon

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Re: Counterfeit Stock
« Reply #3 on: January 14, 2011, 03:01:56 PM »
Now what?

(No surprised looks here....)   :deadhorse:
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*Brum6y*

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Re: Counterfeit Stock
« Reply #4 on: January 14, 2011, 04:04:05 PM »
Now what?

(No surprised looks here....)   :deadhorse:

Whaddyamean "Now what?"

It's in the bureaucracy now - which means you keep pushing, reminding and pressing for someone to look at the matter, repeat crossing all your "t"'s and dotting you "i"'s and lower case "j"'s until the cows come home, fax and email documentation several times each and escalate the matter at every opportunity..... all the while maintaining a professional composure - one that would outlast the patience of the (symbolic) love-child of Mahatma Ghandi and Mother Teresa.

tellomon

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Re: Counterfeit Stock
« Reply #5 on: January 14, 2011, 04:16:18 PM »
Maybe you should handle my issues with the Sheriffs around here....
"The B@zturd Love Child of Comix & a News Organization"

earthmother

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Re: Counterfeit Stock
« Reply #6 on: January 14, 2011, 05:04:53 PM »
Thank you everyone for your information and suggestions.

The annoying thing is that 4 months ago I sent a document to the importer outlining a simple web strategy that could be implemented to create a simple "authorised re-seller program"... to prevent the problem getting any worse on ebay.

This is the same supplier that with held supply to me on the basis of a suspicion that I was re-selling as a distributor due to the volume of sales I was achieving through ebay.  Lordy!

Can anyone recommend a good lawyer in Sydney specialising in Trade Practices and/or Intellectual Property? I'm tired of being pushed around.

*Brum6y*

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Re: Counterfeit Stock
« Reply #7 on: January 14, 2011, 06:25:36 PM »

This is the same supplier that with held supply to me on the basis of a suspicion that I was re-selling as a distributor due to the volume of sales I was achieving through ebay.  Lordy!


Would it have been too much for this distributor to have checked your completed sales on eBay? They would see their products being sold and it would show quantities, prices and uniqueness of purchasers. Surely that would have made it clear?


Or am I being too simplistic?

*smee*

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Re: Counterfeit Stock
« Reply #8 on: January 14, 2011, 06:34:12 PM »
Can anyone recommend a good lawyer in Sydney specialising in Trade Practices and/or Intellectual Property? I'm tired of being pushed around.

These people are supposed to be the duck guts in trade practices

http://laclawyers.rtrk.com.au/?scid=72308&kw=4016465&pub_cr_id=5787586067

earthmother

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Re: Counterfeit Stock
« Reply #9 on: January 15, 2011, 10:19:45 AM »
Would it have been too much for this distributor to have checked your completed sales on eBay? They would see their products being sold and it would show quantities, prices and uniqueness of purchasers. Surely that would have made it clear?

Or am I being too simplistic?

At the time this happened, ebay was sort of a test market for us to see how things went... they weren't aware that we were selling online and just thought our sales were too high for our bricks and mortar business.  I did explain what we were doing and I did reassure them when they asked, twice.  But they continued to assume the worst because they had a bad experience in the past with parallel importing and counterfeits....  In the end I had to supply them part of my sales data....

Many distributors don't like ebay - it can and has devalued many brands, and basically wipe out an entire market.  Funny thing is, most of the time it's the distributors themselves who start the implosion.  One distributor I deal with has said absolutely no ebay, and no online sales although we can promote their product online.  All their goods are microchipped so they can track back to the person they supplied it to.

Smee, thanks for the suggestion - will look into it.

tellomon

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Re: Counterfeit Stock
« Reply #10 on: January 15, 2011, 10:42:06 AM »
Quote
Smee, thanks for the suggestion - will look into it.

Yer gonna trust that wonk? Good luck with that!

:lmao:
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HellWest'nCrooked

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Re: Counterfeit Stock
« Reply #11 on: January 15, 2011, 02:31:23 PM »


  Good luck with it earthmother........it seems it will be a long hard road....even just doing what Brumby suggests, that would test me!

 I really hope that it sorts in your favour eventually.

 Westie   :ivanhoe:
Ain't no rhyme or reason
No complicated meaning

*Brum6y*

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Re: Counterfeit Stock
« Reply #12 on: January 15, 2011, 03:36:58 PM »

Many distributors don't like ebay - it can and has devalued many brands,


Indeed.  I have seen this on more than one occasion.

earthmother

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Re: Counterfeit Stock
« Reply #13 on: January 20, 2011, 04:34:02 PM »
Hi everyone, here's an update and I'd be grateful for any more suggestions...

Update:
Paypal have closed my account and will not enter into discussion despite remaining calm and speaking with a supervisor.
They have frozen a few thousand dollars in the account and say that they will contact me in 180 days despite my protestations that I had supplied the required information.
I supplied proof of authenticity via the resolution centre as instructed but the paypal operator said that their fraud team would have made the decision to close the account anyway.
The importer has sent the rights owner an email (albeit softly worded) to request that they contact ebay to have my account reinstated.
While I haven't received communication with the rights owner directly, I've been sent copies of correspondence from them by the importer that they aware that my stock is authentic but that all sales on ebay are "unauthorized".  
I've resent another email to the rights owner explaining that this situation is putting my company in severe financial hardship and that I need their actions rescinded because I've done nothing wrong.  I've also said that to protect my interests I will need to consult my lawyers.

Anything else???
What a cluster felafel!

earthmother

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Re: Counterfeit Stock
« Reply #14 on: January 20, 2011, 04:43:27 PM »
On a separate note, this has propelled me to use my merchant facility for payments via ebay (if my account every recovers!) and have nothing to do with Paypal ever again!

Has anyone had experience and/or feedback with Authorize.net payment gateway setup?

I've done some comparative cost calculations on the different ebay payment options and I'm willing to pay extra to eliminate the draconian paypal!

*CountessA*

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Re: Counterfeit Stock
« Reply #15 on: January 20, 2011, 04:52:20 PM »
You've done all the appropriate things, I think. Have you kept records of all conversations? (i.e., phone, email, etc.)

Now you should probably focus on two issues. Number 1: this "unauthorised" business. If you were being sold genuine stock, and you were selling it on eBay, and the importer was aware you were selling on eBay, the rights owner is overstepping his/her bounds by saying your eBay sales were "unauthorized" - unless the rights owner has actually included in the terms of sale/distribution that their stock was not permitted to be sold on eBay.

I would have a lawyer send a letter along these lines sent to the rights owner, and asking for a letter to be sent immediately which would clarify this, and which could be sent cc to eBay and PayPal.

I would secondly contact the Ombudsman and initiate a complaint. The link is https://forms.fos.org.au/OnlineDispute. Note that the Financial Ombudsman Service deals with the following - so stick to the issue of your funds being withheld and don't go into the related issue of the rights owner - because if you muddy the waters by focusing on other issues than the BANKING PRODUCTS AND SERVICES issue, you won't get any resolution to your complaint.

Quote
What we can deal with:

    * Banking products and services
    * General insurance products and services
    * Life insurance products and services
    * Investment products and services

PayPal is the financial institution against whom you will lodge the complaint.
"No man is an Iland, intire of it selfe; every man is ...a part of the maine; ...any mans death diminishes me, because I am involved in Mankinde"

*CountessA*

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Re: Counterfeit Stock
« Reply #16 on: January 20, 2011, 04:55:17 PM »
On a separate note, this has propelled me to use my merchant facility for payments via ebay (if my account every recovers!) and have nothing to do with Paypal ever again!

Has anyone had experience and/or feedback with Authorize.net payment gateway setup?

I've done some comparative cost calculations on the different ebay payment options and I'm willing to pay extra to eliminate the draconian paypal!


I haven't used Authorize.net, but I believe it is fine to use. Have you checked with your bank about a merchant facility? I have a business account with my bank (Westpac) - reasonable monthly fees, and a payment gateway (there are a few that they recommend), again with reasonable monthly fees. If you have something similar implemented, you can use your payment gateway to accept payment on your own website in a secure way as well.
"No man is an Iland, intire of it selfe; every man is ...a part of the maine; ...any mans death diminishes me, because I am involved in Mankinde"

*Ubbie Max*

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Re: Counterfeit Stock
« Reply #17 on: January 20, 2011, 05:56:58 PM »
What Countess said. Straight onto the Ombudsman. Complain about your money being frozen. Don't discuss Paypal's misguided reasons. Keep this information up your sleeve in case Ebay/Paypal come back to the Ombudsman with it. You should then prove that they are wrong etc. etc.

earthmother

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Re: Counterfeit Stock
« Reply #18 on: January 27, 2011, 03:31:38 PM »
Hi everyone,
thanks for replies.  Been busy fighting fires - not much has changed, but I will go to the ombudsman.  But if the paypal contract states that they can do these things if they suspect and we all agree to these terms when we sign up for a paypal account, then really what could a compliant against paypal with the ombudsman do?

The unhelpful customer disservice agent even said haughtily that paypal have "teams of lawyers" to know how to get around things and enforce their policies...

I haven't used Authorize.net, but I believe it is fine to use. Have you checked with your bank about a merchant facility?

I thought that according to ebay, if you do not want to use paypal or paymate, even if you have your own merchant facility you must use one of their approved payment gateway services of which there are only two - payflow (paypal) or authorize.net... these gateways interact with your internet merchant facility. 

Or have I got this wrong?

*CountessA*

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Re: Counterfeit Stock
« Reply #19 on: January 27, 2011, 03:34:29 PM »
Payflow is actually fine to use as a gateway - reasonable fees and the support is Australian, not outsourced. (I'm not sure whether or not other gateways can be used, but can check.)
"No man is an Iland, intire of it selfe; every man is ...a part of the maine; ...any mans death diminishes me, because I am involved in Mankinde"

*Ubbie Max*

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Re: Counterfeit Stock
« Reply #20 on: January 27, 2011, 04:15:58 PM »
Earthmother. If someone agrees to a contract & that contract is flawed at law then the contract is useless.

In your case, provided you have not done anything illegal, supplied all goods paid for, sold nothing fake, etc, etc. then Paypal is wrong.

Get onto the Ombudsman immediately & explain all the facts & circumstances.

also, mention the fact that  "the unhelpful customer disservice agent even said haughtily that paypal have "teams of lawyers" to know how to get around things and enforce their policies..."

Leave out " unhelpful" it's opinion & "haughtily" it's emotive & "disservice" use the correct title. Just quote what was stated to you. This is a tactic that is designed to intimidate & the Ombudsman will not be impressed.

Also mention that the money being held by Paypal could be earning you interest but you will receive no interest if or when Paypal release the money to you.
 

*Brum6y*

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Re: Counterfeit Stock
« Reply #21 on: January 28, 2011, 03:42:11 PM »
I totally agree with Ubbie's suggestion.

To state: "the customer service agent even said that paypal have "teams of lawyers" to know how to get around things and enforce their policies..." removes any colouring of your feelings which detracts from the basic facts. 

You want the Ombudsman to get the most direct picture of what Paypal has done.  Being clear, concise, objective and factual means they will pay more attention to the details of what you provide.  If you go into venting your frustrations, they are going to wonder if you are just a simple minded person who didn't read the fine print and is now peeved off.

Also, by itemising all the steps you have taken in a factual and unemotional way, you will allow the Ombudsman to see how reasonable you have been and how poorly Paypal has acted.

Countessa has (as have others) also made the point that - NO MATTER how you expect Paypal to respond to a situation, you MUST follow each instruction they give you.  That way, you will be seen as having done everything within your power to cooperate and resolve the matter - which will result in the focus for failure being squarely aimed at Paypal.

If you present your case as a reasonable person, who has done everything asked with no resolution, then Paypal will have nowhere to point fingers ... and, as you have noted, they have 'teams of lawyers' who will make the most of any opportunity to point the finger.

callostemma

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Re: Counterfeit Stock
« Reply #22 on: February 09, 2011, 10:13:56 PM »
Earthmother,  Can you give us an update on your situation?

bnwt

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Re: Counterfeit Stock
« Reply #23 on: February 15, 2011, 02:00:10 PM »
Savvy young shop online


http://www.couriermail.com.au/ipad/savvy-young-shop-online/story-fn6ck8la-1226005874964


The downside to this plethora of choice is endless temptation to buy too much and the possibility you might not get what you pay for.

My online shopping revolutionary bought me a Louis Vuitton bag on eBay for $400, which I had "un-authenticated" at LV's Elizabeth St store in Sydney.

I felt so embarrassed, knowing I had carried an imposter into the store, and the assistant manager said unfortunately it happens all the time.

bnwt

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Re: Counterfeit Stock
« Reply #24 on: February 22, 2011, 10:06:57 AM »
do you think it's a fake LV ???




Roo

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Re: Counterfeit Stock
« Reply #25 on: February 22, 2011, 07:12:59 PM »
do you think it's a fake LV ???





Maybe...but I wouldn't mind THAT hanging off my arm...lol

bnwt

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Re: Counterfeit Stock
« Reply #26 on: March 04, 2011, 08:33:11 AM »
Fake fashion worth $2m seized


http://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/news/fake-fashion-worth-2m-seized/story-e6freuy9-1226015722525


a handbag wholesaler has been offering me these fakes for quite a while ...... 'someone' must have called the authorities and brought it to their attention

I wonder if this is these same wholesalers that got busted