Author Topic: ELECTION AFTERMATH!!!  (Read 142033 times)

*smee*

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Re: ELECTION AFTERMATH!!!
« Reply #100 on: September 18, 2010, 12:06:09 AM »
The Reply came from Mr Rudd
Joolya you are just a dud
Ive removed the knife
and now you're in strife
your rule will end in a thud !

elantra

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Re: ELECTION AFTERMATH!!!
« Reply #101 on: September 18, 2010, 12:07:39 AM »
Wheres bntw with all his anti Labor propaganda?

elantra

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Re: ELECTION AFTERMATH!!!
« Reply #102 on: September 18, 2010, 12:18:57 AM »
The Reply came from Mr Rudd
Joolya you are just a dud
Ive removed the knife
and now you're in strife
your rule will end in a thud !

But listen to smee,
he said without glee.
Ive backed the wrong horse,
he said with remorse.
Can't wait till the end of year three

*Yibida*

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Re: ELECTION AFTERMATH!!!
« Reply #103 on: September 18, 2010, 01:24:23 AM »
Hmmmm "elantra" elegant name...if I was female I would use it for an alias for the online gaming sites I stalk... I like it...

*r3830*

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Re: ELECTION AFTERMATH!!!
« Reply #104 on: September 18, 2010, 06:51:57 AM »
Julia Gillard gives warning that election promises will be broken

 
Business as usual.... with the obligatory excuses.... how convenient! It's all THEIR fault - again.


http://www.news.com.au/national/julia-gillard-gives-warning-that-election-promises-will-be-broken/story-e6frfkvr-1225925676108

Poddy

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Re: ELECTION AFTERMATH!!!
« Reply #105 on: September 18, 2010, 12:54:44 PM »
At Least JOOLYA has set the standard for Labor behaviour. Only one week of 'power' and already the foundation promises that made up the Labour platform have crumbled to 'Gouron Dust'.
I would like t know why JOOLYA (our Prim Monster) has so misled the Australian people
Is this what we have to look forward to? Would you trust any word JOOLYA uttered again? If JOOLYA said it was night, I for one would go outside and check for myself.

JOOLYA do yourself a favour and fade off the scene and let some other 'leader' of the mob be the scapegoat, save what little is left of your integrity, there was not a lot to start with anyway.

You can still have the kudos for creating a monument, a monumental cockup that is. Wear it with pride :)

*CountessA*

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Re: ELECTION AFTERMATH!!!
« Reply #106 on: September 18, 2010, 01:13:50 PM »
I have something very strange to report:

There is a Rob Oakeshott iPhone app.

I am sorry, but the word hubris comes to mind. I cannot think it appropriate or necessary for this Independent to have even THOUGHT of having such an app created. It seems to me to be an exercise in self-conceit aggrandisement.
"No man is an Iland, intire of it selfe; every man is ...a part of the maine; ...any mans death diminishes me, because I am involved in Mankinde"

Poddy

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Re: ELECTION AFTERMATH!!!
« Reply #107 on: September 18, 2010, 01:28:21 PM »
Tessa, you being so intelligent, I would have thought that you would have known that "thought" and "Oakeshott" were mutually exclusive.
Rational "thought" deserted "Oakeshott" Then his head reached planetary proportions, never to revisit that environment, EVER.

The iPhone app is an attempt to regain a semblance of artificial intelligence.

shyer

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Re: ELECTION AFTERMATH!!!
« Reply #108 on: September 18, 2010, 01:32:58 PM »
I have something very strange to report:

There is a Rob Oakeshott iPhone app.

I think you find that " app " was an pre election stunt it showed rods GPS position during campanging I doubt it works now. He now is hidding from a lot of people who voted for him. Many people in his conservative electorate have a lot of not nice things to say to the Quisling.

*r3830*

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Re: ELECTION AFTERMATH!!!
« Reply #109 on: September 18, 2010, 02:20:54 PM »
That's quite right too shyer. My mum lives in his electoral area and advises that he has been subjected to a number of death threats. Probably explains why his website was brought down.

Poddy

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Re: ELECTION AFTERMATH!!!
« Reply #110 on: September 18, 2010, 10:00:35 PM »
One has to wonder if JOOLYA is on the same planet as Australia is on.

The latest blurb would have to be the worst diatribe I have heard in a very long time.
http://bigpondnews.com/articles/TopStories/2010/09/18/Do_whats_best_for_nation_says_Gillard_515023.html

JOOLYA appealing to all and sundry to "Do whats best for the nation", that coming from the worst destructive force since WWII is beyond belief.

JOOLYA you are on the event horizon of total obscurity, you have had your 15 minutes of fame, bow out now and "Do whats best for the nation",

elantra

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Re: ELECTION AFTERMATH!!!
« Reply #111 on: September 19, 2010, 12:53:30 AM »
Gee I think I must have heard a different speech from the one that you are talking about.

I found it rather inspiring & uplifting.

"Parliamentarians should ask not 'is this in my party's interest?' but 'is this in my nation's interest?',"

Maybe she should have said.

"Parliamentarians & all Australians should ask not 'is this in my party's interest?' but 'is this in my nation's interest?'"


"Ms Gillard said she understood Mr Abbott's approach.

'And I appreciate it's a strong temptation for a leader of the opposition who came so closely to victory,' she said.

'But I think there'll be a lot of disappointment in our community if that easy option is taken.'

She is correct in that.

She knows he is a misogynist & can't stand the thought that he was beaten by a Woman

"Ms Gillard likened the National Broadband Network (NBN) to the post-World War II plan to build the Snowy Mountains Hydro Scheme 'which, like the NBN, in its time was also decried and attacked by the Liberal Party'."

Yes she is on this Planet, She wants to  bring the Australian people together as one.
Can we do whats best for the Nation?  Nah, no way!

*r3830*

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Re: ELECTION AFTERMATH!!!
« Reply #112 on: September 19, 2010, 06:54:12 AM »
'And I appreciate it's a strong temptation for a leader of the opposition who came so closely to victory,' she said.

She certainly does appear to appreciate the fact of 'win at all costs'. That's why you jump into bed with the Greens.... 'but in the national interest' - wouldn't that be a contradiction in terms? Perhaps the saddest thing is that she has become delusional in believing she actually won. History won't record it as such.

'But I think there'll be a lot of disappointment in our community if that easy option is taken.'

Simple.... promise everyone the earth and then get Swanny to reneg on your behalf.... or simply blame the independents!  Integrity +++

"Ms Gillard likened the National Broadband Network (NBN) to the post-World War II plan to build the Snowy Mountains Hydro Scheme 'which, like the NBN, in its time was also decried and attacked by the Liberal Party'."

Now on this point she is right. The 'advanced' technology of the beloved NBN does stem from around the WWII era. Inline with the forward thinking - perhaps we could invent a steam engine for the future. Far more environmentally friendly than the boring Diesel, and the brownhouse gas from the stack is sooo much more appealing than the green.

*r3830*

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Re: ELECTION AFTERMATH!!!
« Reply #113 on: September 19, 2010, 06:56:15 AM »
There is a Rob Oakeshott iPhone app.


Countess..... Was the application called Bullshott?  ;D

*CountessA*

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Re: ELECTION AFTERMATH!!!
« Reply #114 on: September 19, 2010, 10:49:43 AM »
I double-checked the release information for the phone app. No, it wasn't pre-election. It was released 17 September 2010.

It's definitely a new app.

Loco, no such tongue in cheek name...
"No man is an Iland, intire of it selfe; every man is ...a part of the maine; ...any mans death diminishes me, because I am involved in Mankinde"

That Varieties Gal

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Re: ELECTION AFTERMATH!!!
« Reply #115 on: September 19, 2010, 01:28:39 PM »
That's quite right too shyer. My mum lives in his electoral area and advises that he has been subjected to a number of death threats. Probably explains why his website was brought down.
death threats???
that's extremely petty in my opinion
the convergence over time of the two major political parties demonstrates the very similarities that these parties have
death threats because the independent member chooses to sit with labor for the final countdown where a choice had to be made?
I may not have studied politics at university
and I may not be the worlds' most intelligent woman
but I know enough to know that death threats are not only a criminal offence but it is a small mindedness that is dreadfully frightening
for God's sake!  it's political opinion and politics - not a war
or has it become like that in this country?
if it has'
then God help us from ourselves

Poddy

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Re: ELECTION AFTERMATH!!!
« Reply #116 on: September 19, 2010, 03:07:14 PM »
Just because someone CLAIMS to have had 'death threats' does not mean that they actually received them.

That CLAIM has been made by both sides to try to discredit the other side, it is a standard 'covert black op'.
We have to remember this IS the Prima Donna of politics basking in the limelight.
I have no doubt if Oakeshott had have fallen off the fence on the other side he would have made the same claims.

Everyone with a high media profile gets some form of 'death threat', I don't have a high profile and even I have that a 'death threat' in the past.

What I find appalling is that every microscopic shred is being used to gain some form of political advantage.


Poddy

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Re: ELECTION AFTERMATH!!!
« Reply #117 on: September 19, 2010, 03:35:06 PM »



'I am a member of the caucus, there is no faceless man here, and the same as Bill Shorten', said Mark Arbib.


O Really????

That Varieties Gal

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Re: ELECTION AFTERMATH!!!
« Reply #118 on: September 19, 2010, 03:50:37 PM »
true Poddy
I was thinking about that after I posted and everyone in the public profile gets death threats at different times for different reasons
I suppose that at first, I thought it was more about being seen as a 'sell out' and that is probably how the more right wing supporters would feel
It was incredibly unexpected on my behalf that the indies would swing labor and I was flabbergasted when labor did inch over the line!!
I guess I have always seen most indies as Lib/NP whatever it is they call themselves, in another guise
Although, I thought with all the noise that katter was making that he would have been the mostly likely one to stand with labor
but there ya go
and I should keep my nose out of political disscussions
over and out
robbie   ;D

*Brum6y*

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Re: ELECTION AFTERMATH!!!
« Reply #119 on: September 19, 2010, 04:35:30 PM »
Context, situation, circumstances - there are a great number of words that one can use to qualify phrases that could be declared 'death threats' by the melodramatic (... and, lets face it, the political stage is perhaps one of THE most melodramatic stages you could find).

For example - the simple phrase: "I'm going to kill you"
ScenarioTrigger for making statementOutcome
Two young brothersOne tips mud on the otherA chase around the back yard ending up in a mud wrestle
Father and sonSon calls dad to tell him he's crashed dad's carLots of shouting on the phone. Dad arrives on scene and gives son a hug saying "Thank God you're ok". Son grounded.
SportsmenGrand final pre-match psych-outOne wins. One doesn't
PoliticsStupidity, betrayal, etc.Voter vents, feels better. Politician ignores. Life goes on.
Mugger to personIntimidationPossible (but rare) outcome

...... and we all could keep going adding to this list.

I will admit in some situations there can be a difficulty in discerning the reality and ability of the threat to be carried out, but the details which clarify this are the first things to be ignored when political point-scoring is the objective.

*r3830*

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Re: ELECTION AFTERMATH!!!
« Reply #120 on: September 19, 2010, 05:21:43 PM »
....but I know enough to know that death threats are not only a criminal offence but it is a small mindedness that is dreadfully frightening
for God's sake!  it's political opinion and politics - not a war


Agree Robbie - but passion gets blended into statements of the ridiculous during these things. Words are words.... but actions speak louder. Mr Oakshott would be a fool to dismiss the risks.


I may not have studied politics at university and I may not be the worlds' most intelligent woman

I learned a long time ago to never underestimate the abilities of any woman. Intelligence isn't solely measured on what subjects a person studied at school or Uni. Don't sell yourself short Robbie.... you have good thoughts to add to any subject discussed here!!!

That Varieties Gal

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Re: ELECTION AFTERMATH!!!
« Reply #121 on: September 19, 2010, 07:02:57 PM »
gee thanks r3830
when i saw you had quoted me i stressed thinking that my comments would be torn to bits and i'd be made to look a fool
but no!
even complimented' thanks!!

fair debate is healthy

*r3830*

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Re: ELECTION AFTERMATH!!!
« Reply #122 on: September 19, 2010, 07:54:21 PM »
fair debate is healthy

That it certainly is..... along with being fun - and often gaining another person's different views on things. ( Crikey! I didn't think of that!) That way we all have the opportunity of better insight.

NOBODY deserves to feel as though they'd be treated as a fool for adding their views to a discussion..... or be torn to bits for that matter! You're a valued member here - as are all the other posters. In fun - get amongst 'em at times - and by all means, share what you think too.  :pepsi:


*CountessA*

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Re: ELECTION AFTERMATH!!!
« Reply #123 on: September 19, 2010, 07:58:35 PM »
And so say all of us.

We may all have different views, but that's the fun of it. We all ought to be able to argue, discuss, exemplify, say this, say that, without anyone feeling they must indulge in sicky-sweet sacharine-encased mindless mutual meaningless agreement.
"No man is an Iland, intire of it selfe; every man is ...a part of the maine; ...any mans death diminishes me, because I am involved in Mankinde"

*r3830*

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Re: ELECTION AFTERMATH!!!
« Reply #124 on: September 19, 2010, 08:13:53 PM »
sicky-sweet sacharine-encased mindless mutual meaningless agreement.


Goodness Countess! Now that statement I am sooooo going to use! *plugs memory stick into left ear*  ;D

*Ubbie Max*

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Re: ELECTION AFTERMATH!!!
« Reply #125 on: September 19, 2010, 09:36:00 PM »
I'll always share what I think but, i'll never share my Pepsi Max!

*smee*

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Re: ELECTION AFTERMATH!!!
« Reply #126 on: September 19, 2010, 09:38:47 PM »
I think that I had a thought once that was worth sharing but Ive forgotten what it was

*Ubbie Max*

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Re: ELECTION AFTERMATH!!!
« Reply #127 on: September 19, 2010, 09:43:59 PM »
I won't share my Pluto Pups either.

*smee*

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Re: ELECTION AFTERMATH!!!
« Reply #128 on: September 20, 2010, 09:10:30 AM »
I see Kev has moved on from Pakistan and is now in Washington .... where next ? a world tour perhaps ?
maybe he will find an excuse to go on the next NASA flight to the moon or somewhere ...I shudder to think how much he will rack up in travel expenses during this term of government ...the last 3 years was abysmal !

elantra

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Re: ELECTION AFTERMATH!!!
« Reply #129 on: September 20, 2010, 01:35:00 PM »
I see Kev has moved on from Pakistan and is now in Washington .... where next ? a world tour perhaps ?
maybe he will find an excuse to go on the next NASA flight to the moon or somewhere ...I shudder to think how much he will rack up in travel expenses during this term of government ...the last 3 years was abysmal !

It's Kev's birthday tomorrow the 21st of September.

I didn't know what to get for him, so I just sent him a card with a $20 gift voucher from K-Mart
Happy birthday Kev!

For he's a jolly good fellow,
For he's a jolly good fellow,
For he's a jolly good fellow,
And so say all of us
Hip Hip Hooray
Hip Hip Hooray
Hip Hip Hooray

Happy birthday big fella!

*Brum6y*

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Re: ELECTION AFTERMATH!!!
« Reply #130 on: September 20, 2010, 02:01:26 PM »

It's Kev's birthday tomorrow the 21st of September.

I didn't know what to get for him, so I just sent him a card with a $20 gift voucher from K-Mart
Happy birthday Kev!


Oh dear.

I've never even felt the slightest interest in sending any politician a gift....

.... and the closest I've ever known anyone else to consider doing so, was for a 'flaming Winston' - but it was never sent.

*CountessA*

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Re: ELECTION AFTERMATH!!!
« Reply #131 on: September 20, 2010, 02:07:08 PM »
When I look at the discrepancy between what I earn and what politicians earn (even when they've retired), I feel they should be giving ME birthday presents.
"No man is an Iland, intire of it selfe; every man is ...a part of the maine; ...any mans death diminishes me, because I am involved in Mankinde"

*Brum6y*

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Re: ELECTION AFTERMATH!!!
« Reply #132 on: September 20, 2010, 02:31:15 PM »
I appreciate the sentiment - but I'd be fearful of what they WOULD give me!

mandurahmum

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Re: ELECTION AFTERMATH!!!
« Reply #133 on: September 20, 2010, 03:09:56 PM »
When I look at the discrepancy between what I earn and what politicians earn (even when they've retired), I feel they should be giving ME birthday presents.

and it seems they all want another increase

http://www.couriermail.com.au/news/federal-politicians-in-bold-bid-for-more-salary-allowances/story-e6freon6-1225836726942

mandurahmum

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Re: ELECTION AFTERMATH!!!
« Reply #134 on: September 20, 2010, 03:32:13 PM »
And WA Politicians now get paid more than the federal ones - in fact more than other state politicians too.

http://au.news.yahoo.com/thewest/a/-/mp/7733437/wa-pollies-highest-paid-in-australia/

But that is nothing compared to what some government dept boss's are being paid.

Whilst our health system is in a mess - the boss gets paid $540,000 pa. 

http://www.perthnow.com.au/news/acting-health-boss-kim-snowball-wants-540000-top-job/story-e6frg12c-1225843142707

The boss of Horizon power gets nearly $640,000 pa
The Managing director of western power gets $551,000 pa
and there are more - in fact our Premier gets paid less than 20 other government head bosses. 

http://www.perthnow.com.au/business/wa-premier-colin-barnett-paid-less-than-at-least-20-bureaucrats/story-e6frg2qc-1225867203900

But thankfully - they are all doing a top job, and are worth every cent.  I mean its not the health dept bosses fault that the system is falling apart - he has much more important things to worry about - like how is he going to pay his electricity bill - now that it has skyrocketed.

I mean we were warned our electicity bill would go for an average family of around $300 a year.  Well I live by myself and my last 2 bills have gone up by at least $150 each.  If this continues I will be paying at least an extra $1200 on my bill for the year.




elantra

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Re: ELECTION AFTERMATH!!!
« Reply #135 on: September 22, 2010, 11:15:34 PM »
Julia Gillard met with the Queen in England. She asked her, "Your Majesty, how do you run such an efficient government? Are there any tips you can give to me?"


"Well," said the Queen, "the most important thing is to surround yourself with intelligent people."


Julia frowned, and then asked, "But how do I know the people around me are really intelligent?"


The Queen took a sip of tea. "Oh, that's easy; you just ask them to answer an intelligent riddle."


The Queen pushed a button on her intercom. "Please send David Cameron in here, would you?"


David Cameron walked into the room and said, "Yes, Your Majesty?"


The Queen smiled and said, "Answer me this please, David, your mother and father have a child. It is not your brother and it is not your sister. Who is it?"


Without pausing for a moment, David Cameron answered, "That would be me."


"Yes! Very good," said the Queen.


Julia went back home to Australia and asked Wayne Swan, her Deputy Prime Minister the same question.


"Wayne, answer this for me. Your mother and your father have a child. It's not your brother and it's not your sister. Who is it?"


"I'm not sure," said Wayne. "Let me get back to you on that one." He went to his advisers and asked every one, but none could give him an answer.


Finally, he ended up in the men's room and recognized Tony Abbott's shoes in the next stall.


Wayne asked, "Tony, can you answer this for me? Your mother and Father have a child and it's not your brother or your sister. Who is it?"


Tony yelled back, "That's easy, it's me!"


Wayne smiled, and said, "Thanks!" Then, he went back to speak with Julia.


"Say, I did some research and I have the answer to that riddle. It's Tony Abbott"


Julia got up, stomped over to Swan, and angrily yelled into his face, "No, You idiot! It's the English Prime Minister, David Cameron!"


Poddy

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Re: ELECTION AFTERMATH!!!
« Reply #136 on: September 23, 2010, 01:29:05 AM »
Lo! and Behold !! :)

Trala!! had been converted and seen the error of his/her ways, I wonder if it was the ingestion of crow that did the trick?

:) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :)

elantra

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Re: ELECTION AFTERMATH!!!
« Reply #137 on: September 23, 2010, 03:12:45 PM »
Lo! and Behold !! :)

Trala!! had been converted and seen the error of his/her ways, I wonder if it was the ingestion of crow that did the trick?

:) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :)

Funny is funny.

Anyway, you should be eating the crow,
to which I must admit you did a very good job of dishing it up.
So it must be a dish you are very famillar with!!!

*CountessA*

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Re: ELECTION AFTERMATH!!!
« Reply #138 on: September 23, 2010, 03:31:13 PM »
Quote
Prime Minister Julia Gillard says she has been unable to reach agreement with the Coalition over constitutional questions about the position of Speaker in the new Parliament.

Ms Gillard accused Opposition Leader Tony Abbott of going back on his commitments on how the House of Representatives would be run in light of the election result that delivered a hung parliament.

"He intends to break his word," Ms Gillard told reporters in Canberra today.

Ms Gillard said the government would introduce more than 30 bills into Parliament during its first week, following its resumption on Tuesday.

"These bills cover a wide variety of areas; of course we will be releasing the full list of legislation to be introduced in the first week," she said.

The bills, to go to both the House of Representatives and the Senate, cover national hospital standards, universities, a national health prevention agency, increased penalties for aviation security breaches and giving more power to the Australian Crime Commission to fight organised crime.

The debate centres on different interpretations of what the constitution allows in relation to pairing the Speaker with a member of the opposition when votes occur in the chamber.

Solicitor-General Stephen Gageler has advised the government there is no "necessary constitutional impediment" to the Speaker being paired with a member of the opposing party provided the arrangement is voluntary.

But the opposition argues that pairing would allow the Speaker a deliberative vote, something prohibited by the constitution.

"I have literally minutes ago put the phone down from a telephone discussion with the Leader of the Opposition, Tony Abbott," Ms Gillard said.

"He has said to me in that telephone conversation that he and the opposition will not abide by the parliamentary reform agreement that they signed."

Mr Abbott said the Coalition would not accept proposed arrangements for the pairing of the parliamentary Speaker because it was constitutionally unsound.

Mr Abbott said he had based his decision on the views of Mr Gageler.

"From a close reading of the Solicitor-General's opinion, the only basis on which the Speaker can be paired is an informal arrangement," he told reporters.

"The Coalition cannot accept the proposed arrangement for the pairing of the Speaker because, after careful consideration of the matter, we believe that it is constitutionally unsound."

Mr Abbott said legislation was too important to be based "on an informal arrangement".

"Now, I very much regret that the parliamentary reform agreement in this respect, and in this respect only, cannot be supported, because I think that parliamentary reform is very important. But you cannot agree to do something which is in breach of the constitution," he said.

In a letter to Ms Gillard dated August 30, Mr Abbott said he recommended former cerk of the house, Ian Harris, chair a Parliamentary Reform Committee.

"The Prime Minister rejected this proposal," he said.

"If Mr Harris had been guiding the process, it is absolutely crystal clear that the problem would never have arisen."

I want to state here that Ms Gillard is deliberately using emotive language with a negative subtext by saying Tony Abbott would "break his word". The actual facts are this: further input on the subject of the constitutional role and obligations of the Speaker has revealed it would be CONSTITUTIONALLY WRONG to allow the Speaker to have a deliberative vote.

Quoting from Christopher Pyne, who I think put it as succinctly as possible:

Quote
"The speaker does not have a deliberative vote, under the constitution the speaker only has a casting vote," he told ABC Radio on Thursday.

Earlier this month, Labor, the coalition and Mr Oakeshott agreed to a series of parliamentary reforms, including 'pairing' the speaker for votes - meaning whichever party they belonged to wouldn't lose a vote when divisions were called.

But Mr Pyne said pairing was only relevant for the deputy speaker and others that occupied the chair.

"The issue of pairing only comes up with the deputy speaker and other members of the speakers panel, all of whom have a deliberative vote," he said.

"There is no other possible reading of the agreement if you read it in conjunction with the constitution of the country."

Therefore, it seems to me that Ms Gillard is taking a cheap shot at Tony Abbott by making this a "breaking of his word" issue rather than a reassessment of under WHAT conditions the Speaker can be paired for votes.

She ought not to be doing this. It's ungracious - and worse than that, it's not correct.
"No man is an Iland, intire of it selfe; every man is ...a part of the maine; ...any mans death diminishes me, because I am involved in Mankinde"

*CountessA*

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Re: ELECTION AFTERMATH!!!
« Reply #139 on: September 23, 2010, 03:42:19 PM »
Quote
But on Mr Brandis's legal opinion, the shadow cabinet resolved yesterday not to pair the speaker. If this position remains unchanged, the government would have to reappoint the Labor incumbent, Harry Jenkins, as the non-voting speaker and have its 76-74 majority reduced to 75-74.

Consequently, only one MP would have to change sides for the government to lose in the House on a motion or piece of legislation, creating an even more volatile Parliament and unstable minority government.

The shadow cabinet made its decision before Mr Abbott received the Solicitor-General's advice. ''Our position is we won't agree to pair the speaker,'' a Coalition source said.

The 20-page advice from the Solicitor-General cleared the way for the speaker to be paired by way of informal or voluntary agreement between the government and opposition.

''In my opinion, no arrangement for the 'pairing' of another member of the House … with the speaker could give to the speaker a deliberative vote, nor could it deprive the speaker of a casting vote,'' the advice says.

''Adherence to the arrangement by the other member could only be voluntary.

''If those constraints are observed, I consider there to be no necessary constitutional impediment to a pairing arrangement between the speaker … and another member and another member from an opposing political party if that arrangement has a fixed operation irrespective of any particular vote.''

Senator Brandis's opinion states that appointing a non-voting opposition deputy speaker to compensate for the speaker not voting would violate Section 40 and be subject to a High Court challenge.

An informal arrangement, as approved by the Solicitor-General, would still be a violation, he said.

Senator Brandis later told the Herald the Coalition was unlikely to be swayed by the Solicitor-General's advice. Senator Brandis said if pairing the speaker was unlawful if enforced by a motion or change to the standing orders, then ''no self-respecting lawyer'' would advocate an informal agreement to circumvent this concern.

The manager of opposition business, Christopher Pyne, told the Herald on Tuesday the Coalition would be guided by the Solicitor-General's advice.

A senior government source warned that unless the Coalition agreed to honour the deal it made to pair the speaker, there would be a campaign of payback.

(Bolding mine.)

And this - THIS is a major concern.

The Gillard government would be placed in a slightly more precarious position if Oakeshott cannot have his vote and eat it (be Speaker AND have a casting vote), so my feeling is (and I may be wrong; feel free to convince me) that they will throw whatever mud they can at the Opposition and seek by any means possible - EVEN IF IT MEANS VIOLATING THE CONSTITUTION - to achieve the goal of an Oakeshott-fed Speaker position engorged with power and heady voteability.

If I am wrong about my perception of this, I will readily apologise.
"No man is an Iland, intire of it selfe; every man is ...a part of the maine; ...any mans death diminishes me, because I am involved in Mankinde"

*Brum6y*

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Re: ELECTION AFTERMATH!!!
« Reply #140 on: September 23, 2010, 04:14:34 PM »
Lo! and Behold !! :)

Trala!! had been converted and seen the error of his/her ways, I wonder if it was the ingestion of crow that did the trick?

:) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :)

Funny is funny.


I agree - but the piece you posted portrays Tony Abbott as a thinking person and is derisive of Labor party members - particularly Julia Gillard.

This seems somewhat opposite to your previously indicated views ... that were stated with some conviction.

Quote

Anyway, you should be eating the crow,
to which I must admit you did a very good job of dishing it up.
So it must be a dish you are very famillar with!!!

I am also curious as to why you think Poddy should eat crow?

*Ubbie Max*

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Re: ELECTION AFTERMATH!!!
« Reply #141 on: September 23, 2010, 05:07:44 PM »
Gillard takes Oakeshott, Windsor and Wilkie for a celebration dinner at a big fancy restaurant in Canberra. The waitress approached and asked "What would you like to order Ms. Gillard"? She replied, "I would like a nice Australian beef fillet steak please . "   The waitress said, "But Ms. Gillard, what about your vegetables"? She replied, "They can order whatever they like ."   


 

*Brum6y*

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Re: ELECTION AFTERMATH!!!
« Reply #142 on: September 23, 2010, 05:09:51 PM »
Quote
But on Mr Brandis's legal opinion, the shadow cabinet resolved yesterday not to pair the speaker. If this position remains unchanged, the government would have to reappoint the Labor incumbent, Harry Jenkins, as the non-voting speaker and have its 76-74 majority reduced to 75-74.

Consequently, only one MP would have to change sides for the government to lose in the House on a motion or piece of legislation, creating an even more volatile Parliament and unstable minority government.

The shadow cabinet made its decision before Mr Abbott received the Solicitor-General's advice. ''Our position is we won't agree to pair the speaker,'' a Coalition source said.

The 20-page advice from the Solicitor-General cleared the way for the speaker to be paired by way of informal or voluntary agreement between the government and opposition.

''In my opinion, no arrangement for the 'pairing' of another member of the House … with the speaker could give to the speaker a deliberative vote, nor could it deprive the speaker of a casting vote,'' the advice says.

''Adherence to the arrangement by the other member could only be voluntary.

''If those constraints are observed, I consider there to be no necessary constitutional impediment to a pairing arrangement between the speaker … and another member and another member from an opposing political party if that arrangement has a fixed operation irrespective of any particular vote.''

Senator Brandis's opinion states that appointing a non-voting opposition deputy speaker to compensate for the speaker not voting would violate Section 40 and be subject to a High Court challenge.

An informal arrangement, as approved by the Solicitor-General, would still be a violation, he said.

Senator Brandis later told the Herald the Coalition was unlikely to be swayed by the Solicitor-General's advice. Senator Brandis said if pairing the speaker was unlawful if enforced by a motion or change to the standing orders, then ''no self-respecting lawyer'' would advocate an informal agreement to circumvent this concern.

The manager of opposition business, Christopher Pyne, told the Herald on Tuesday the Coalition would be guided by the Solicitor-General's advice.

A senior government source warned that unless the Coalition agreed to honour the deal it made to pair the speaker, there would be a campaign of payback.

(Bolding mine.)

And this - THIS is a major concern.

The Gillard government would be placed in a slightly more precarious position if Oakeshott cannot have his vote and eat it (be Speaker AND have a casting vote), so my feeling is (and I may be wrong; feel free to convince me) that they will throw whatever mud they can at the Opposition and seek by any means possible - EVEN IF IT MEANS VIOLATING THE CONSTITUTION - to achieve the goal of an Oakeshott-fed Speaker position engorged with power and heady voteability.

If I am wrong about my perception of this, I will readily apologise.

This is something I had not considered - but it is of the utmost significance.

As I see it, to 'pair' the speaker with a 'balancing' voting member would require that member - who is entitled to have a deliberative vote under the constitution - to forgo that right.  If such a member were to voluntarily agree and subsequently find they are driven to exercise their right to vote, then there are NO formal grounds to deny them that right.  Under the constitution, they are guaranteed that right and no form of constraint on voting nor penalty for doing so would be enforceable, nor could be brought against them without a constitutional legal assault being fired back in no uncertain terms.  Any form of motion from members - or anywhere - would clearly be right in the middle of this 'no go zone'.

If we want to look at changes to the Constitution to serve political expediency, then I have EXTREME issues with that idea - and I think a great many Australians would, too.


HOWEVER - I cannot see how 'pairing' the speaker will really have any functional benefit - which is why its been touted in the first place.

There are several scenarios that I have mulled over, but I will only present two to demonstrate how effectively useless the whole idea is....

(1) Let us say that the speaker is paired - and we have a vote which results in a 74 - 74 tie.  We have two members who have not voted. If we allow both to then vote, then (in all likelihood) we will end up with a 75 - 75 tie. Not very helpful.  Also, we will have violated the constitution by allowing the speaker to give their 'casting' vote before all members who are entitled to make a deliberative vote have done so. It also makes an absolute mockery of the concept of a casting vote being 'the decider' in an otherwise tied-up situation. That is an absurdity.

This could possibly be addressed by allowing the 'paired' member to have their vote before the speaker is allowed to.  This will take the heat out of the unconstitutional argument (but it's still an issue, in principle).  Such an action will give the 'paired' member a form of casting vote. But this will have the identical result if they had voted as a regular member.  So why even bother with this dangerous arrangement?

(2) Let us say that the speaker is paired - and we have a vote which, through an abstention, produces a 74 - 73 result, where the 74 is from the speaker's political alliance. That result is clear. If the 'paired' member steps up to cast their vote (as would be the case in normal parliamentary procedure) the vote would tie at 74 all. The speaker then makes their casting vote to resolve the deadlock to 75 - 74. So the outcome would not change. So, again, why even bother?


As I see it, the bottom line is pure politics - it's a game of perceptions for benefit to the politicians from the voters.

The 'pairing' idea is a great marketing ploy - but it just does absolutely NOTHING in the wider scheme of running this country - other than running foul of the Australian Constitution.

These facts SHOULD be made clear and the issue SHOULD be stepped away from, from both sides of politics. One side has, but the other won't - not because it's a good idea (because, in practice, it's a very bad one) but because they can score political points.


Maybe she should have said.

"Parliamentarians & all Australians should ask not 'is this in my party's interest?' but 'is this in my nation's interest?'"


Couldn't have said it better.

*r3830*

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Re: ELECTION AFTERMATH!!!
« Reply #143 on: September 23, 2010, 05:36:24 PM »
She ought not to be doing this. It's ungracious - and worse than that, it's not correct.

During the election campaign, Ms Gillard said: ..... "There will not be a Carbon Tax!" At least it was a popular statement at the time. Very low indeed in the integrity stakes.

I read an article yesterday talking about how many people are in default with their electricity bills. Just how the hell is a pensioner supposed to manage.... and stay warm - or cool? The choice at the moment appears to be whether one eats or keeps warm. 65% increases pending!

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Re: ELECTION AFTERMATH!!!
« Reply #144 on: September 23, 2010, 05:47:25 PM »
How true Trala!!

Yes I am pretty familiar with dishing up crow and I always supply the salt and the pepper.
It surprises me just how often some people request crow. :)

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Re: ELECTION AFTERMATH!!!
« Reply #145 on: September 23, 2010, 07:52:15 PM »
You do know crows are scared of height!!






Thats why when they get up into the sky they look down and say that word that they are renowned for.

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Re: ELECTION AFTERMATH!!!
« Reply #146 on: September 23, 2010, 08:07:14 PM »
Crows are the hardest of all pests to shoot, they recognise firearms & stay away.

Did you know that crows can count.
A farmer out west of Condoblin proved it to us years ago.

Some  crows were hanging around, the farmer said for three of us to go into the shed with our firearms & only two come out. The crows can count but they can only count to two so they think all three of us have come out of the shed. We did this & sure enough, the crows came down to investigate after two of us left the shed & the third bloke, still in the shed, blasted them with a shotgun.

True story.

Farmers out west hate the crows especially around lambing time as they peck out the eyes of the lambs.

*r3830*

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Re: ELECTION AFTERMATH!!!
« Reply #147 on: September 23, 2010, 08:10:51 PM »
Ubbs..... Something strange happens when a crow collides with a .204. Ever seen black down in a pillow?  ;D

*Ubbie Max*

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Re: ELECTION AFTERMATH!!!
« Reply #148 on: September 23, 2010, 08:17:14 PM »
Nope R numbers, that would be interesting. I used to nail them with my .223. It was the most accurate firearm I ever owned.

golden

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Re: ELECTION AFTERMATH!!!
« Reply #149 on: September 23, 2010, 08:21:37 PM »
I got to put 50 rounds through a 410 the other day.  It had a bit of go about it.