The Parliamentary Deadlock Farce

[*Brum6y*]

1.3 The Greens will oppose any motion of no confidence in the government from any non-Greens
member.
Direct quote from the Agreement

This would have to be the stupidest clause in any agreement ever signed.

It does however allow the Greens to put forward the no confidence motion making them the scapegoat.

Let me demonstrate please.

Let us assume that the coalition are the ones who form government.
Let us also assume that Labor for some reason puts forward a motion of no confidence in the government (coalition), according to the terms of that legally binding agreement the greens MUST oppose the motion.
Now I ask you, stupid or not?? OH DEAR!! What a predicament.
Bobby, Jules what HAVE you done????

Absurd or brilliant?!!! ... from the Greens perspective. That clause means they will be required to support ANY government, unless the Greens put the motion - where they CAN vote against the government.  They still have control either way - it just means they need to get in first, if they want whoever is in - out.  Even Julia.

From the ALP perspective .... are they that desperate to allow such a clause to stand?

[elantra]

Majority want the independents to back Labor

http://www.optuszoo.com.au/news/192158/majority-want-the-independents-to-back-labor.html

[elantra]

Voters want independent MPs to side with Labor, says poll


http://www.smh.com.au/federal-election/voters-want-independent-mps-to-side-with-labor-says-poll-20100903-14ufc.html

[elantra]

Gillard's secret weapon: he's from Queensland and is pleased to help


http://www.smh.com.au/federal-election/gillards-secret-weapon-hes-from-queensland-and-is-pleased-to-help-20100903-14uex.html

[elantra]

Coalition accused of scare campaign

http://www.optuszoo.com.au/news/192093/coalition-accused-of-scare-campaign.html

[*CountessA*]

It is just possible that the readership of particular papers is biased towards Labor. Same poll, different paper, different readership, different result.

That's how it is. Everyone comes with a unique perspective, background, position on certain issues, geographical requirements, etc.

[tellomon]

^ It's called SPIN ^

[*r3830*]

Political consensus used to be pretty much in agreement - that the Greens were way out there, with policies that came from the same place. It was further agreed that being a party of little significance - their policies would never come into play - and that they needn't be worried about. Well, dearest Julia, I do hope that you sleep well tonight - because a lot of others.... including those who voted for the ALP - and not a Greens / Labor power sharing arrangement certainly now, do have some things to be concerned about. Introducing Prime Minister elect - Mr Bob Brown!

Greens to rush same-sex bill


Senator Brown said yesterday Labor had agreed to work with the Greens to ensure private member's bills, seldom debated previously, would be properly considered in the new parliament.

"This means important Greens bills to introduce equal marriage, end offshore processing of asylum-seekers or to abolish junk-food advertising during children's TV viewing hours can't be swept under the carpet by the Labor and Liberal parties," the Greens leader said in an email bulletin yesterday.

Mr Bandt, who won the seat of Melbourne, said he would introduce private member's bills and perhaps press for them to be the subject of conscience votes.


But Bob - Let's not forget your defeatist policies regarding the decriminalising of drugs... allowing greater access of these things to kids - nor the increase in injecting rooms and public funded needle exchanges. Curious though.... will Coles only sell Blonde Hashish... or include the more exotic varieties as well?


http://www.theaustralian.com.au/news/nation/greens-to-rush-same-sex-bill/story-e6frg6nf-1225914037018

[Poddy]

But that is only public opinion, I am sure they made up their mind long ago but wanted to see the antics of both sides and have their 15 minutes of fame.
Andy has a lot to answer for.
And if they had not made up their mind long ago it would show that they lacked self confidence and direction.
Shame that the country is being held to ransom by the likes of that lot.
Also a shame on BOTH parties for pandering to the whims of idiots.

[elantra]

Windsor backs Labor on broadband

http://www.smh.com.au/federal-election/windsor-backs-labor-on-broadband-20100904-14vd4.html

[elantra]

Voters want independent MPs to side with Labor, says poll



http://www.smh.com.au/federal-election/voters-want-independent-mps-to-side-with-labor-says-poll-20100903-14ufc.html

[elantra]

Poll points independents to Labor




http://www.smh.com.au/federal-election/poll-points-independents-to-labor-20100903-14uhe.html

[elantra]

Majority of voters in their electorates want the independents to back Labor




http://www.theaustralian.com.au/national-affairs/majority-of-voters-in-their-electorates-want-the-independents-to-back-labor/story-fn59niix-1225914017626

[elantra]

Gillard on the move for power

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/news/opinion/gillard-on-the-move-for-power/story-e6frg6zo-1225914022561

[Poddy]

NBN is like the promise of a 'laptop for every schoolchild'

Ask yourself 'who will be connected to fiber first?' you can bet your bippies or or knackers it WONT be the rural areas, not enough votes there.

So all what will happen is, the ones who already have broadband will get extra speed to check their emails with while the ones without will still go without. Typical government policy.
 

[*smee*]

and they complained about a possible 10 or 11 $b black hole in Liberals figures

Labor have said 42 or 43 $b to do NBN ....those in the trade say closer to $100b ....now that could be a big black hole !!!! 

[golden]

They are spending $50 million a day on public servants sitting around waiting for a decision...  I would like to see that taken from the independents electorate..  about time candidates made their decision prior to the vote count..  I would have alot more time for Tony or Jooolya if they stood up and said I wont be extorted or stood over by a little gay poonce like you who wants to run an electorate where they use more water/power/services than the rest of the country.. and do we need to spend a couple of billion per electorate to get those votes??  Sit back, suck it up and wait your time.. this country will never see a Labor Govt again in my lifetime, and I hope they are held accountable for giving scrotes $1000's per kid whilst the working families doing it tough got NOT ONE F&^%$ THING!!

[*Brum6y*]

"This means important Greens bills ....... can't be swept under the carpet by the Labor and Liberal parties," the Greens leader said in an email bulletin yesterday.

Does anybody else find this situation rather bizarre?

I find it astounding that a party with only one seat of representation can not only introduce and demand serious consideration for any bill that both the Labor and Liberal parties - representing the vast majority of the population - have been unmoved to support previously ... but to have the very real power to put pressure on the vote for it to be passed.

I never thought it could be feasible - but the possibility now seems quite real that at least part of our country's future will be decided by a minority government of ONE.


This has nothing to do with any particular proposals - just the concept.

[*r3830*]

Labor have said 42 or 43 $b to do NBN ....those in the trade say closer to $100b ....now that could be a big black hole !!!! 

Funny smee - that's precisely what I've been hearing as well..... albeit a tad over $100B. I read that Mr Windsor has been convinced that fibre is the only answer - a 'do it once approach'. Strangely, many years ago, a salesman told me that the new 286 computer system was all that I'd ever need too.... and where are we now... 6 processor CPU's? By the time fibre is walked to the moon and back - it'll probably be as recent as the telegraph lines that used to dot the country! 

Meanwhile, (selfishly speaking of course) the western area health service (NSW) is in debt to the tune of around $100M. Their orders are strictly cash up front.

[mandurahmum]

Actually regarding the NBN and who will be getting it first - apparently I will be one of the first.  As it is at the moment - I cant get adsl 2 - but if I lived 500 metres north - i would.   So apparently I will be one of the first to benefit - according to my isp and the local papers.

Geraldton will also be getting it.

2 regional towns that are both considered safe coalition seats

http://www.nbn.gov.au/content/geographical-rollout

[Poddy]

Here is a bit of worthwhile reading

Take note of the key dates.

http://www.nbnco.com.au/about-nbn-co/history-of-nbnco

[Poddy]

Come on people, don't get suckered into believing all the election promises.

Consider NBN like updating roads with super highways, can you honestly believe that rural areas will get super highways first?

What good will the super highway be it it only takes you from one side of a rural community to the other and then the rest of your journey is via dirt road to your destination?

As with any road network the arteries (internet backbone) have to be be in place first until then you are going nowhere FAST.

Yet the NBN Co. and the government are pissing in everyones pockets and trying to tell them its raining.

It does not that rocket science to see that the hubs are the starting point in any network be it internet, road, string and tin can communication or ANY other network.

[*Brum6y*]

I will admit to not having studied the specifics on the NBN rollout - but there are some fundamental truths that I fear are being totally glossed over ... and ones that are going to have significant impacts:

1. As Poddy has said, the infrastructure needs to be in place for this to work as heralded - and it just isn't there.
2. Australia is a big country - not much smaller than that place between Canada and Mexico - and it's going to take a lot of optical fibre to cover it ... and it will take a long time to do it!
3. I would trust costings from the industry a lot more than the government - who have a vested interest in underestimating a cost ... especially at election time.
4. Political point scoring is going to direct who gets what and when. If servicing a remote but high profile community of 20 can score brownie points that translate into 100,000 votes, then they will be put ahead of a community of 10,000 that may only have 5,000 votes in it.  The same numbers game applies everywhere - a sad, but true reflection of the fact that however altruistic their motives are painted, the almost universal bottom line for politicians is "where are the votes?"


This is getting depressing just thinking of how well the whole of Australia is NOT going to get what has been promised - based on practicalities and experience.


I might as well just hold out for someone to develop the Quantum Modem. No expensive runs of cables. Zero latency added. Functional whilst mobile in any situation - terrestrial, subterranean, submarine, lunar, martian and even that wi-fi dead spot in the corner of the lounge room.


Anyone wanting to place bets on which will come first... the NBN or the quantum modem?

[Poddy]

OMG !!!! Brumbles have you been looking over my shoulder????

I have had that very article that you refer to in design stage now for a number of years, it is making progress in quantum leaps

All that is needed now is a quantum leap in the amount of cash needed to finish the project, and ideas who I could convince that it is the ultimate in technology and the very last word in technology.A mere $B50 to roll it out WORLDWIDE in an undefined period of time.

[*Brum6y*]

How about a coalition between Bill Gates and Steve Jobs...? 

[*Brum6y*]

... and if they can't sort it out, just bring in Bob Brown to break the deadlock.




But then again ... isn't he more into smoke signals for digital communication?

[Poddy]

Hmmmmm........ Somehow I doubt if Steve or Bill are the bend-over types.

[*smee*]

ok heres the scoop on how it will go down , decisions by independants will be announced Tuesday ....

Tony Windsor - coalition , Bob 'Mad hatter' - coalition , 'look at me look at me' Cockshott - Labor   

result 75 all and back to the polls late October just before the Melbourne cup but after the Caulfield Cup

[*r3830*]

And if your scoop is right smee - that would probably be the best result that can be had!

[*smee*]

either way , even if one of the parties do form a government , there will be another election early next year anyway before the new senate is formed as it will not work 

[*r3830*]

I wonder who'll vote for the ALP/Greens (ALG) then?

[*smee*]

Shyer will I think 

[golden]

sorry for being so ignorant on this NBN subject, but are you saying a cable has to be physically laid to every house in Australia for this to work?  Surely not!  The logistics of that are near impossible.

So if it costs many $$ thousands for every man, woman, child and many $$ tens of thousands per household to do this, what are the benefits for us all kicking in this coin?   ball park figures 100bn divided by 20mil population = $5000 each.  Wouldn't it be money better spent installing myki in every town??

[*r3830*]

Good Morning Golden!

Julia Gillard stated that there would be no installation cost per household in a tv interview a while ago. That appears )from industry circles) to be completely incorrect.

There is a stack of information about stating that installations could range upto $4000+ per household.

Consider it like water supply. The main runs down your street - but anything on your property side of the main is at your expense.

That's how it stands with household fibre links. (not to mention modem and internal cabling changes)

The Liberal plan was based around getting fibre (backbone cabling) to the major exchange areas.... many of which Telstra already have existing in the ground, and allowing the private arena to compete on providing the services to homes, utilising the copper in the ground.... much the same as things are at the moment - but with National coverage. They also spoke of sharing different technologies in achieving this outcome... ie: wireless.

There is a new 4G wireless service becoming available that is capable of providing a 100Mbps service to households. That is enormously cheaper than providing physical cable - particularly to remote areas.

But, as mentioned by Poddy and others - again there is a limitation on the equipment that is capable (infrastructure) of providing this breakneck speed, not to mention the bandwidth limitations that presently exist. 43Bn to address this? Seems quite a 'pie in the sky' figure to me.... but, at election times, promises are made to be broken..... not that any of us have seen that happen before!

[*smee*]

http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2010/07/30/2968355.htm

[golden]

Consider it like water supply. The main runs down your street - but anything on your property side of the main is at your expense.

That's how it stands with household fibre links.

Morning Loco...  thanks.

So when I put the phone/internet on here.. 2006 I think.  I had to dig a trench 800 mtrs up to the front road, some contractor bored under the road and they eventually hooked me up.  Would the infrastructure be there in that cabling or would I have to re do it all over again?  Seems from Smees article there is alot of the cabling already in place, in some parts of Oz, laying dormant.  Why is it that its not getting used? Dont private enterprise want it yet or are they just waiting for the tax payers to fund it?

[*r3830*]

Golden... prior to my present employment, I was with Telstra for nearly twenty years. What smee says is quite right.... optical fibre is really nothing new. It's the equipment both ends that makes the real difference.

Cabling standards would probably determine that you would require a new trench to bring this in. Optus put up aerial cables in many areas.... but were not allowed to in others. Incidentally, anyone hoping to connect OptusTV..... you're out of luck. They are discontinuing their network.... including, I believe, their cable Internet. Discovered this a couple of days ago..... and whirlpool.net.au is full of comments regarding it.

smee, that is an interesting article. Some of the comments are quite good as well.... I brought one home.... where an 'old fart' (such as me!!!) was criticised for not supporting the NBN.

"i am one of those old farts and you are way off the mark. All you see is your gaming and downloading speeds going up, try looking at it from everyone else perspective, we do need improvement but at what cost to the consumers. This has more to do with what is acceptable than anything else, it was made up overnight by a group of 4, no figures have been released to back it only talk. After all the stuff ups with every other program they have instigated so far how good do you really think this one is, it will stuff up just like the others because it was a rushed release to gain voter approval with no background checks what so ever. "

Well, at least Labor captured the young vote I suppose.

[HellWest'nCrooked]

I know of optic fibre running around the middle of nowhere for hundreds of klms and no one hooked on to it, runs right past homesteads, a little town, got me beat!   I am pretty sure it is a loop for Melb/Syd, they just took the scenic route........lol
No baloney, it is thousands of klms out of the way!

[*CountessA*]

http://news.ninemsn.com.au/national/election2010/7956624/voters-prefer-second-election-poll

A poll has revealed that a majority of Australians are now demanding a resolution to the federal election deadlock and would prefer another election over a hung parliament, regardless of which party the independents decide to back.

News Ltd says a national poll on the question of the future of a hung parliament shows the majority of people are now fed up and would support simply going back the polls.

The telephone poll of 1000 people, commissioned by the Sydney-based public relations and lobby firm Parker and Partners, showed 56 per cent of people now want another election.

It suggests that even if Julia Gillard or Tony Abbott manage to form a minority government, with the support of the independents, it will be a government not supported by the majority of voters.

Voters were asked whether they now supported a hung parliament or would prefer another election.

A total of 56 per cent said they would prefer another poll, with Western Australia recording the highest number of people - 66 per cent.

NSW had the least number of people wanting a new election, with 53 per cent. "These results suggest the second week of negotiations with the independents have really tested the patience of Australians," CEO of Parker and Partners Sarah Cruikshank told News Ltd on Sunday.

"The community appears frustrated that the government is being so publicly held hostage by a handful of vested interests, and the risk for the independents is that they are now perceived to have overplayed their hands."

[Poddy]

Now that would be VERY interesting.

I can't hepl but wonder if the Gang of 3 would get re elected, I somehow doubt it.

Hmmmmm... is that a telltale sign of of 'brown stuff' I see around the Gang's shoes

[Poddy]

Hmmmm....... reverse psychology Warren???

http://bigpondnews.com/articles/Politics/2010/09/06/Independents_will_support_ALP_-_Entsch_509665.html

[Poddy]

One has to wonder how the NBN will handle mobile internet, I can imagine everyone on a fiber optic string hahahaha
The NBN will have a whole department set up to untangle all the strands

OMG!!!! I juat had a horrible thought and visual Australia tangled up in fiber optic STRING

[*Brum6y*]

Poddy - just get back onto your Quantum Modem project ... ok?

[*Yibida*]

One has to wonder how the NBN will handle mobile internet, I can imagine everyone on a fiber optic string hahahaha
The NBN will have a whole department set up to untangle all the strands

OMG!!!! I juat had a horrible thought and visual Australia tangled up in fiber optic STRING

You said that word ... Umaaarrrr !

[*Ubbie Max*]

Dear Julia
How about this for an election winner
 
Let's put the seniors in jail  and the criminals in a nursing home.
This way the seniors would have  access to showers, hobbies and walks.
They'd  receive unlimited free prescriptions, dental and medical treatment,
wheel  chairs etc and they'd receive money instead of paying it out. 
 They would have constant video  monitoring, so they could be helped
instantly, if they fell, or needed  assistance.
 Bedding would be washed twice  a week, and all clothing would be ironed
and returned to them.   A guard would check on them  every 20minutes and
bring their meals  and snacks to their cell.
 They would have family visits  in a suite built for that purpose.
 They would have access to a  library, weight room, spiritual counselling,
pool and education. 
 Simple clothing, shoes,  slippers, PJ's and legal aid would be free, on
request. 
 Private, secure rooms for all,  with an exercise outdoor yard, with
gardens.
 Each senior could have a PC a  TV radio and daily phone calls.
 There would be a board of  directors to hear complaints, and the guards
would have a code of conduct  that would be strictly adhered to.
 The "criminals" would get cold  food, be left all alone and unsupervised.

 Lights off at 8pm, and showers  once a week.
 Live in a tiny room and pay $900.00 per month and have no hope of ever
getting out. 
 Justice for all we say.   

[Poddy]

You have my vote on that Ubbie

EXCELLENT IDEA

JOOLYA !!!! if you get in then DO IT

[*r3830*]

Ubbs..... Have you been to my workplace... have you?

The sad fact is that the statement is not far from the actual mark. Judges put people in gaol so that they can receive decent psychiatric assistance.... and because they believe the same to be not available outside.

A terribly sad indictment on society when you think about it.

As a matter of interest, there was an elderly lady (mid 80's) inside recently. She told me that her time in gaol was the best experience of her life. She had a large contingent of younger women looking after her.... and they built her up in confidence no end. She was actually sad to go home - because she knew that she would not have the same level of support, or company there. She worried that she would die at home.... and nobody would know. (She didn't know at the time - but she will be receiving around thirty letters a week - and a stack of phone calls, from her many adopted daughters.)

[*CountessA*]

A decision on which of the two major parties will be able to form a minority federal government is likely to be announced at a press conference scheduled for 2pm today (AEST).

The three country independent MPs - Tony Windsor, Bob Katter and Rob Oakeshott - who will make the decision have started arriving at Parliament House in Canberra for consideration of "final documents" from both Prime Minister Julia Gillard and Opposition Leader Tony Abbott.

"Then the three of us will get together and talk it through," Mr Windsor said, adding the trio was hoping they could make public their decision early this afternoon.

Ms Gillard and Mr Abbott might not hear about the decision until it is announced publicly.

Mr Windsor admitted he was leaning one way but would not say whether it was towards Labor or the coalition.

He hasn't even told his wife.

"She wanted to know. No. She can't be trusted," he told reporters.

Nor have the three MPs yet talked to each other about their "specific votes".

Labor needs only the support of two of the three independents to form a minority government, while the coalition needs all three.

Nationals Senate leader Barnaby Joyce is not confident about the coalition's chances of winning over the independents.

"You get a sense that the momentum is slipping away from us," he told ABC Radio.

But his opposition frontbench colleague Andrew Robb is still hopeful the independents will back the coalition, describing private negotiations as genial and constructive.

"They have given us the impression they are still weighing up issues on both sides," he said.

Mr Robb rejected criticism Mr Abbott had lost the negotiation battle, despite running the better election campaign.

"I don't buy that argument. Let's see what happens today."

Mr Windsor says stability of government remains the most important issue for him.

"Can we put something in place that will last and work for a period of time," he said.

"What we all want to avoid, and I think the community as well wants to avoid, is a 75-all draw which would mean another election."

The coalition is counting West Australian National Tony Crook as one of its 73 lower house MPs.

Mr Crook said in a statement to AAP early on Monday evening he would support the coalition.

But he would sit on the cross-benches until the Liberals agreed to match the WA royalties for regions scheme with federal funding for regional infrastructure.

- http://news.ninemsn.com.au/national/election2010/7957282/election-decision-expected-at-2pm

[*smee*]

it will be more like 3pm I think as Mr "look at me" ( self appointed leader of the independants) wants to drag out his glory and big note himself for an extra hour

[wyzeguy60]

74 all