Author Topic: Scammers - How brazen can they get? (Read 8629 times)

*Brum6y* · « **on:** May 19, 2010, 01:00:15 AM »

Try this scenario:
- Buy, buy, buy from eBay sellers
- Say you didn't get the items (even though signed receipted delivery is available)
- Get sellers to re-ship
- Claim INR (even though signed receipted delivery is available)

So you have two lots of goods for free.

When you've pushed your luck far enough with a seller
- neg them on every item and don't let the facts get in your way (for example "Cheap rubbish. Falls apart. Beware of seller" - for an item claimed as INR.)

Then:
- sell these items on eBay
- but don't ship them all the time
- blame Australia Post for losing the items and quote the same tracking number for all their buyers (is this brazen or just plain dumb?)
- make your feedback private

Repeat and continue (and go international, too.)

What's more is that it seems they have done the same thing before.

EBay's response: They can do nothing because the member hasn't breached eBay policy.

Has anyone else come across this one? Any further info to add? It is a problem happening now and I understand a representation is headed to eBay offices very soon...

*smee* · « **Reply #1 on:** May 19, 2010, 08:11:50 AM »

Just 1 point ....you cant make your feedback private , if you are selling

Liisa-Sx · « **Reply #2 on:** May 19, 2010, 09:38:15 AM »

Iv'e been following this one Brumby, and I assume it's the same one.
http://forums.ebay.com.au/topic/Selling/Craft-And-Reborn/500125650#1274184841056

I feel so terribly sorry for 'trimsandthings' (the victim) it is beyond all resonable comprehension just how Ebay cannot see anything wrong with this buyer, just look at the feedback Tand T's has recieved from this absolute criminal and Feebay refuse to remove it or do anything about it. http://feedback.ebay.com.au/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewFeedback2&userid=trimsandthings&iid=-1&de=off&items=25&which=negative&interval=30

I added the unscrupulous Buyer 'drg123j' to my blocked bidder list on both of my ID's as fast as I could type.

I AM glad that TandT's is seeking legal advice, apparently there are some 6 or 7 other sellers that have fallen prey to this moron, I'd ask how they sleep at night but then again sociopaths don't care do they..

There truly are some poor excuses for human beings in the world.

*wheels* · « **Reply #3 on:** May 19, 2010, 09:40:02 AM »

Brum6y, there's one thread on eBay at the moment where the buyer buys one small item and once received checks postage method and leaves good feedback. Buyers then places a large order from same seller and then claims Item Not Received and hits the neg button multiple times. The same buyer apparently has repeated the same method over the past few months for a large number of sellers.

Liisa, you beat me to it! I just went to the Selling board to try and find it.

Liisa-Sx · « **Reply #4 on:** May 19, 2010, 09:53:10 AM »

The sooner Ebay are held responsible for dealing with rogue buyers (& sellers) the better, how much longer they can hide under the "just a venue" banner is anyone's guess more is the pity.

Unfortunately all this masked bidder rubbish combined with Sellers not being able to leave negative feedback and the one sided resolution process it has become a buyers paradise, everyday more good sellers vanish in disgust, it has brought all the rogue buyers out of the woodwork and they ARE getting away with it.

I currently have one person bidding on an item who has had several retractions and two unpaid buyer disputes in the past (now redundant) they have not bought anything for a very long time and I..am..nervous.

Combine that with buyers that are recieving items and negging, and filing disputes because of the following reasons:
It's ugly
I don't want it anymore
I decided I don't like the colour
Just to name a few, they then leave neg feedback which Feebay refuse to remove
OR
Buyers that recieve the item leave feeback saying they got the item that then put in disputes saying they never got it.. and feebay refund them!!!
OR
Buyers that bid, NEVER pay AND get to leave Neg feedback they don't even have to respond in the dispute anymore, the fact that they sent the seller a message saying "I don't want it now" is apparently enough communication that they can Leave feedback and a NEG no less.

Why the hell should Sellers be fearful everytime they list that they are going to be ripped off, YES they can send registered but even that is not enough to protect them these days and ebay as long as they get their fees look the other way.

Then you get others that say "well why sell on ebay then, go elsewhere" uh huh.. and when your own website is not viable and there is no other platform with the exposure?

Feebay need to be accountable, level the playing field and stop rolling in the green crinkly stuff for 5 minutes to take a good look at what is going on.

*Brum6y* · « **Reply #5 on:** May 19, 2010, 02:45:30 PM »

Yes Liisa. That's the one.

The numbers are a little higher, though. From what I've gleaned there are at least 29 sellers that have been identified so far.

I believe that a representation met with Daniel Feiler today.

I don't know if anything came of that meeting, but I understand he will have 24 hours to do something or ........

*Brum6y* · « **Reply #6 on:** May 19, 2010, 03:08:38 PM »

it might look something like this....

[attachment deleted by admin]

Liisa-Sx · « **Reply #7 on:** May 19, 2010, 03:39:30 PM »

Quote from: *Brum6y* on May 19, 2010, 02:45:30 PM

Yes Liisa. That's the one.

The numbers are a little higher, though. From what I've gleaned there are at least 29 sellers that have been identified so far.

I believe that a representation met with Daniel Feiler today.

I don't know if anything came of that meeting, but I understand he will have 24 hours to do something or ........

I SO want to know the outcome... and 29!!!! wow Playa or what?

*Brum6y* · « **Reply #8 on:** May 19, 2010, 05:50:55 PM »

The obscene thing is that the value of the items involved is small - but 13 negs on 13 items hits just as hard on a seller (for a given volume of sales) whether the items are worth $1, $10 or $1,000.

Not to mention leaving 1's for the DSRs......

There would seem to be a massing of seller ire here and it that support from the seller community is extending beyond those directly affected - since it is a risk to any seller.

I am getting the impression that this issue is going to be on the 'top ten' list of eBay battles. EBay had better take some decisive action, because with such flagrant trashing of sellers' businesses in such a short time, the sellers are ready to take their own action. Now.

I have heard a couple of them are going to approach their local member, who happens to be the minister for Fair Trading and since at least one of them has already engaged in dialogue with the minister on previous occasions, they already have established credentials.

Even eBay spin doctors are going to have difficulty with this one....

*Brum6y* · « **Reply #9 on:** May 19, 2010, 05:51:26 PM »

Quote from: *smee* on May 19, 2010, 08:11:50 AM

Just 1 point ....you cant make your feedback private , if you are selling

Not on that ID - you just create another.

Liisa-Sx · « **Reply #10 on:** May 19, 2010, 06:09:52 PM »

Doesn't seem like they have had much luck as yet -

Quote

"trimsandthings

(36 of 36)
19/05/2010 18:03

Ebay rang.. they are having another look at this..

So far she says my items are junk, she didnt recieve them and then they where out of stock..

Which one is it?

She's smart but there is definitely a nutter element..
Shes know what she can and can't do.. seems ebay has educated her well."

How damn hard is it for Ebay to investigate properly, see the anomalies and act swiftly and appropriately.

*Brum6y* · « **Reply #11 on:** May 19, 2010, 06:23:55 PM »

I get the impression that eBay will have a lot to look through, so I wouldn't expect a categoric answer in a few hours. They will need to verify things such as delivery reciepts and so on, as I imagine they will get a lot of complaints from people who are ticked off and haven't done the right thing.

To be fair, they will need to be sure of all the facts before taking action - however they will need to act promptly. Sellers' reputations are getting trashed.

I can imagine if somebody goes bankrupt over this, heaven forbid, then all hell will break loose.

Liisa-Sx · « **Reply #12 on:** May 19, 2010, 06:30:59 PM »

True Brumby, however they were alerted more than three days ago regarding this particular seller (T&T's) other sellers reported this same Buyer well over two months + ago and Ebay refused to do a single thing, so in turn this Rogue Buyer was able to continue to defraud and demolish at whim.

*wheels* · « **Reply #13 on:** May 19, 2010, 06:44:48 PM »

It is the same story over and over, whether it is a buyer or seller. These people will continue to find ways to rip people off and eBay just sits back and collects the fees.

*Brum6y* · « **Reply #14 on:** May 19, 2010, 06:57:47 PM »

Call me cynical - but I don't think the clock really started on this until today's confrontation.

Though the fact that eBay HAS been informed so far back and haven't acted as yet is probably why they will be making a concerted effort right now.

retribution · « **Reply #15 on:** May 19, 2010, 08:02:04 PM »

I won't pretend to be an expert on Ebay as I'm not. Only bought off them 4 times and was ripped off badly on 1. Which I did mention at the time on another thread. Another was borderline but I blamed myself for not looking closer at the coins I was buying.

It seeems to me these people on Aus Ebay at least know how weak we are re Legislation in this area. Minister Conroy as Minister for this area.(Broadband Roll Out) Has been talking about Legislation to cover some of the things going on re the Internet and maybe if Legislation does come about covering Scam Sellers/Buyers then I would expect Ebay to react a lot quicker on claims re Ebay business in this country.

I know there is legislation re fraud that can be acted upon by the FDP however it doesn't always cover this type of fraud and particularly when the Seller is based in another Country. Only Ebay Australia can be charged. However they'd scrape out of it by their usual tactics of can't be responsible for every Buyer/Seller's actions etc. Or saying they have removed the offending person. Who just relists under another ID. And Ebay probably knows as everyone has an individual computer number so not hard that way to check if using same computer.

My suggestion is that anyone being scammed in such a way also makes as copy of all evidence and sends it to the Minister's Office as they are looking for different examples re their proposed Legislation.

I know it is a Politician, but to get the cover we need against such fraud it has to be covered by Legislation and Legislation only comes about via a Politician.

Just a thought.

*Brum6y* · « **Reply #16 on:** May 19, 2010, 08:39:53 PM »

Good point, retro.

Politicians drive legislation.

Constituencies drive politicians - after all, they want your vote.

Make a noise people...

Roo · « **Reply #17 on:** May 19, 2010, 08:56:41 PM »

I like where this thread is heading....reminds me of the old boards, where we really had a chance to dissect all the info and actually get into the nitty gritty of a situation.

Has trimsandthings been invited to join here?

I think they would be feeling pretty low right now...and maybe some support of their situation may benefit them.

*Brum6y* · « **Reply #18 on:** May 19, 2010, 10:32:01 PM »

Not that I know of, Roo.

Have just sent her a PM via eBay messages. (Wonder if it will get through?)

*Brum6y* · « **Reply #19 on:** May 19, 2010, 11:46:30 PM »

Received a reply...

Although it seems she might be thinking of OZtion (have sent a follow-up to clarify that) she appreciated the email and the thought.

She did say that she was focussing on looking after her customers first - but then that's what good sellers do, isn't it?

Will let you know when I hear back.

retribution · « **Reply #20 on:** May 20, 2010, 01:50:37 AM »

You are helping a New OZRT Member " jwr1au" re his/her problems with Ebay on another thread.

Might be an idea to put it to him/her re making a copy of all again and posting it off to Minister Conroy's office. (re possible future Legislation.)

It certainly can't do any harm and might do a lot of good.

Just having a win is good but it doesn't stop future rorts.

I could do it myself but I'm not usually over here in this part of OZRT. So may not follow it up.

*Brum6y* · « **Reply #21 on:** May 20, 2010, 02:18:37 PM »

I've not heard back from trimsandthings, but there has been some action taken:

drg123j (private) Not a registered user

All the negs from this user have gone, her Powerseller status has been reinstated and her DSRs are excellent once again.

However, will eBay stay on top if this scammer decides to try again with another ID? I'd like to think they would, but...

Since eBay have taken this action they no doubt will consider the matter resolved - but what about the merchandise and funds this scammer has acquired fraudulently? Will PayPal re-debit the buyer? Will a report to police of multiple counts of fraud from this person result in any action?

Personally, I think it would be wise for authorities to take up a case or two where the financial value is not significant and make an example of them. It would be a deterrent to the 'marginal' scammers - who only do it because they are supported by eBay and PayPal. There is still the need to pursue the major players, but such 'examples' could reduce the numbers of people who simply claim INR.

Certainly, there is an obvious need for legislation to catch up with technology.

News:

Author Topic: Scammers - How brazen can they get? (Read 8629 times)