Author Topic: Scam Sellers (Read 23224 times)

jwr1au · « **on:** April 25, 2010, 03:17:13 PM »

On the 26th March I purchased on Ebay , paid through Paypal $2,535.00usd for an Item from a seller in Malaysia with a 100% positive rating.
Item did not arrive & reported it to Ebay & Paypal escalating it to a dispute. In the meantime with No response by the Seller I commenced my own Investigation as a couple of Minor scams happened to me & Paypal just dismissed them as settled without the slightest inquiry.
I blew up the Photos of the item & found in the background the ID of a completely different seller on 2 photos.
Luckily for me as I do biz in Malaysia I am able to track people.(I Train Malaysian & other Police in Asia ) The phone supplied to ebay was different to the actual & the Sellers name was not complete.
After MANY calls , emails , sms threats & cajoling I received via Western Union the Majority of my funds (Less $64.00usd still waiting) on the 21st May
I then notified Ebay & Pay pal & received a mail from Ebay saying how wonderful it was that the transaction went through OK .
I am positive that the majority of the Time that inquiries are handled by Software NOT people.
I now have an empty Box with a False Postal/Customs Declaration by a seller in Canada for a $4400.00usd Item. (Seller insured for $100.00 & claimed value was only $1,00.00 I have paid $540.00aud for Customs fees for an empty Box they don't open packages when you provide receipt of Paypal purchase price) This is becoming Very Frustrating. What is Paypal Protection for Buyers ????????? Reality or Myth ????

cupie · « **Reply #1 on:** April 25, 2010, 04:55:12 PM »

What is Paypal Protection for Buyers ????????? Reality or Myth ????

myth !!!

btw....snipe

Tess will be able to tell you how to take on the beast...apparently you have to lodge an Item not as described dispute not an item not received dispute......in fact, as we all know, Paypal is so fast, easy convenient and safe *choke, snortle, cough*, that it must surely be your mistake....hehehehe *tongue in cheek*

I think we have a thread here somewhere describing how to escalate a dispute to BFSO if all else fails.....it costs Paypal money every time the Ombudsman has to get involved, so at the very least you get to to send some kind of consumer message.....

bnwt · « **Reply #2 on:** April 25, 2010, 05:10:11 PM »

don't even waste any more of your time trying to deal with paypal

go straight to http://www.fos.org.au/centric/home_page/resolving_disputes/how_to_lodge_a_dispute.jsp

The Financial Ombudsman ............... Phone 1300 780 808

watch paypal suddenly spring into action

*Yibida* · « **Reply #3 on:** April 25, 2010, 05:42:58 PM »

Welcome to ozrt jwr1au ... I'm not overly knowledgeable on this subject, but I'm sure the members here will offer you suggestions on course of actions at your disposal with excellent information... check back regularly with updates to your current problem...

*CountessA* · « **Reply #4 on:** April 26, 2010, 12:35:48 AM »

Hello, jwr1au.

You're very welcome here.

What you've related is a bit surprising! You could certainly claim the item has not arrived (stating that the box was empty), and the box weight would surely be listed on the parcel which would support your claim to PayPal.

You mention you've escalated to a claim? What's happening with that? You should receive a refund through PayPal - and if by some chance PayPal close in the seller's favour, you can then open another claim that the item is not as described. I know it might seem time-wasting, and perhaps BNWT's suggestion of going straight to the Ombudsman is best in terms of getting the problem sorted out more quickly than through PayPal...

Did you say the seller refunded you most of the money by Western Union? That's really surprising, because if your PayPal claim is found in your favour, PayPal will take the funds from the seller's PayPal account REGARDLESS of money having been refunded to you by some other method. It strikes me as quite bizarre behaviour from the seller! Surely the seller would want to protect himself from refunding you TWICE?

Anyway, if you'd like help in submitting a claim to the Ombudsman for the outstanding amount you are still owed, let us know, and there are a number of people who will be glad to help.

jwr1au · « **Reply #5 on:** April 27, 2010, 12:12:58 AM »

I now have , thanks to Forensic Colleagues a Blow up of a Photo from the Listing that shows the Model Number of the Item (A Rolex Stainless & Gold Submariner Watch) is in fact NOT a Submariner BUT a GMT an Item that I did not even Bid on . Now What.??? A Sub model is 116613 a GMT is 116713 & a completely different watch & far less value in the used market (Scammers change the Blue Face to a Sub Mariner in Asia , I did not expect it in Canada where the seller is from ......

Advice please , I feel like an idiot , I have now checked all the sales from this seller & there is NO record of Rolexes only very cheap items in relation to Motorcyle Spares & accessories.

I am embarressed to admit I am a Security Consultant & Consultant Investigator for Corporate & Government.

Thank you all for the welcome . I was invited after a problem or 2 by one of your regular members.

*Yibida* · « **Reply #6 on:** April 27, 2010, 12:49:10 AM »

Sorry for the delay with some avenues for you jwr1au .. being a long weekend some members are away on a break... I'm sure in the next couple of days they'll be back with some help for you... YIB.

cupie · « **Reply #7 on:** April 27, 2010, 12:53:25 AM »

OK, sorry, can I clarify something?...this second purchase involving a watch is current?....and the refund being discussed was on another item?...is that right?....so am I right in saying you've paid money for this fake watch and you're trying to get a refund on this second purchase?...sorry I'm just a bit confused and it's late.

jwr1au · « **Reply #8 on:** April 29, 2010, 01:17:48 AM »

The first item was Louis Vuitton Sunglasses - Got most of the Money back myself.

Second item is a Rolex that never arrived & now found that the photos in the Sellers listing are in fact 2 different watches. Front on is a Submariner , BUT the side shot shows a Model Number which is of a GMTII different model altogether & much lower resale value to me.

*Brum6y* · « **Reply #9 on:** April 29, 2010, 01:24:06 AM »

Thanks. I was wondering too - since the first item talked about a date in MAY. (I presume last year.)

tommy.irene · « **Reply #10 on:** May 02, 2010, 05:32:24 PM »

10..SNIPE..

jwr1au · « **Reply #11 on:** May 05, 2010, 08:14:30 AM »

Here's the latest.

Paypal have come back with an offer from the seller of the "watch". He will refund $2500.00usd to settle the complaint.
So , that means he gets $2619.00usd for nothing, I have refused , but, Paypal states that I could get NOTHING if they decide in the sellers favour.

Now Paypal want to see a Police Report. The West Australian Police have no interest in a matter from Canada. But, I am about to receive a Report from Australia Post stating their Investigation shows that it is a Canadian Matter.

Another frustrating thing I have found is that all the emails from Paypal instruct me NOT TO REPLY as that address is not monitored.

Thanks for all the advice. The other saving grace is that I use an ANZ Visa card & they have already instructed Paypal to chargeback on the first Transaction which by the way , I now have every penny back. So I have sent off today a formal complaint of Card Fraud to ANZ. I cannot praise ANZ enough.

White Witch · « **Reply #12 on:** May 05, 2010, 08:50:36 AM »

I'm glad you got your money back!

I just don't buy expensive things from ebay, specially from overseas, just to be on the safe side.

*CountessA* · « **Reply #13 on:** May 05, 2010, 11:18:17 AM »

It's good to hear that you funded your PayPal payment by credit card. The protection you get from your card issuer/bank is real, based on genuine investigation and upon your rights being explicitly outlined in the user agreement.

jwr1au · « **Reply #14 on:** May 07, 2010, 11:09:47 PM »

Here is the latest from Australia Post Investigations "Express Courier" division. I use the Term Investigations VERY LOOSELY !

Quote: "The SENDER has PRIOR right to any Compensation" (My Capitals)

So , here is the Gig , I cannot get compensation as the Owner of the Goods , BUT , the Scammer does.

This is the scenario , Seller sends empty container after receiving over $5,000.00aud , he can now claim compensation for that amount from Oz Post & he already has the same amount from the Buyer. ????????????

Ya Gotta be Kiddin'

Ya gotta Luv it.

*Yibida* · « **Reply #15 on:** May 07, 2010, 11:18:06 PM »

Quote from: jwr1au on May 07, 2010, 11:09:47 PM

Here is the latest from Australia Post Investigations "Express Courier" division. I use the Term Investigations VERY LOOSELY !

Quote: "The SENDER has PRIOR right to any Compensation" (My Capitals)

So , here is the Gig , I cannot get compensation as the Owner of the Goods , BUT , the Scammer does.

This is the scenario , Seller sends empty container after receiving over $5,000.00aud , he can now claim compensation for that amount from Oz Post & he already has the same amount from the Buyer. ????????????

Ya Gotta be Kiddin'

Ya gotta Luv it.

Sorry to hear that jw1rau, there is no justice in this world.... I would like to to meet the Law... here it is...

golden · « **Reply #16 on:** May 07, 2010, 11:32:51 PM »

Quote from: jwr1au on April 25, 2010, 03:17:13 PM

I commenced my own Investigation as a couple of Minor scams happened to me & Paypal just dismissed them as settled without the slightest inquiry.
I blew up.
Luckily for me as I do biz in Malaysia I am able to track people.(I Train Malaysian & other Police in Asia )
sms threats & cajoling I then notified Ebay & Pay pal & received a mail from Ebay saying how wonderful it was
I am positive that the majority of the Time that inquiries are handled by Software NOT people.
Reality or Myth ???? Your telling the story!

Centuries · « **Reply #17 on:** May 07, 2010, 11:38:55 PM »

Quote from: jwr1au on May 07, 2010, 11:09:47 PM

Here is the latest from Australia Post Investigations "Express Courier" division. I use the Term Investigations VERY LOOSELY !

Quote: "The SENDER has PRIOR right to any Compensation" (My Capitals)

So , here is the Gig , I cannot get compensation as the Owner of the Goods , BUT , the Scammer does.

This is the scenario , Seller sends empty container after receiving over $5,000.00aud , he can now claim compensation for that amount from Oz Post & he already has the same amount from the Buyer. ????????????

Ya Gotta be Kiddin'

Ya gotta Luv it.

jwr1ru That is absolutely appalling. I trust the ANZ will obtain your money for that transaction.

golden · « **Reply #18 on:** May 08, 2010, 08:33:20 AM »

Hi jwr, my point about ebay and paypal was that they are along way from being reactive let alone proactive towards crime. There seems to be some philosophy that parading offenders on the court house steps would be bad for business, yet it would instill confidence in me to use their services. You have proved that when it comes to internet crime there are very few places to turn or resources at our disposal. Its up to the individual victim to do all the work in the hope of achieving any result at all. It must lead to many sleepless nights and a great deal of anxiety.

If a grub was to stick up a servo they'd be lucky to pocket a couple of hundred bucks, yet there'd be lights and bells everywhere, polair in the sky, dog squad on the ground. Detectives, fingerprints, photographics, uniforms cordoning the area. There would be media coverage, an expensive trial and they'd be lucky to get half a dozen in the big house!

As a nation we've had plenty of warning that with the internet will come a new breed of criminal. Perhaps its time to make the position of "cyber investigator" much more appealling. They probably don't fit the profile of the detective we know now, who is extremely busy in their own area or district policing real life. People like some of the moderators here and ebay sellers would be excellent candidates IMO. They probably don't need months or years in an academy, firearms training, pursuit driving and so forth to be capable of achieving results.

Thanks for posting and please keep us informed. I know if someone hit me up for 5 big ones it'd leave a pretty nasty taste in my mouth for the rest of my life.

jwr1au · « **Reply #19 on:** May 09, 2010, 05:05:21 PM »

I have now spoken to ANZ & filed for a chargeback & informed Paypal of same.

I have also spoken to an acquaintance of mine who happens to be a reporter for Today Tonight & there is some interest been shown. I will find out at the end of the week if they are interested in following it up for Broadcast.

I also noticed an item on Ebay from Australia (we specialize in Rolex & Louis Vuitton Sunglasses) that is using photos from an advertisement & a pic from a seller from another site NOT the seller that is offering the item for sale.

Reported to Ebay ---item is still up for sale....I give up , just worry about my own & let another victim happen I guess.

I think "Proactive" is a foreign concept

golden · « **Reply #20 on:** May 09, 2010, 05:52:45 PM »

Hi again JWR, I'm surprised others haven't been able to deal with it, I lose confidence over that also. Somewhere on the coinee thread they talk about photo's being stolen. I find it really disgusting that people cant understand cyber crime... Do we see it as victimless?? I have NO problem at the resources mentioned above, I only wish those resources were put into investigating cyber crime. As a nation we all need to be hurt before anything is done, IMO. Why don't PP, Ebay, ANZ, Police and others work together?

lacey · « **Reply #21 on:** May 09, 2010, 08:45:15 PM »

Hi, I was reading a few weeks ago (dunno where) that you get no where with police but, you have to go to the Online Fraud Squad. They are supposed to be the cops who handle that type of thing. I have no idea whether this is true or not but, I believe I read it on Oztion because someone was complaining they had been ripped off and then someone else said go to The Online fraud Squad. worth a try.

That Varieties Gal · « **Reply #22 on:** May 09, 2010, 10:24:11 PM »

OK
so - think i get the customs scam and then the false photo but 100% positive asia seller (both sellers off shore) scam

do I get the refund $$ picture?
you got your money back on both of these 2 unhappy transactions?
I'm getting confused with the amounts going from about $2,535 - then about $540? but then there's another figure of around $5,000 (or is that a potential scam hypothetical?)
so how much did you actually get back
was it more than you temporarily lost in the first place?

jwr1au · « **Reply #23 on:** May 10, 2010, 12:29:23 PM »

First Scam was for $2535.00usd for a pair of LV Glasses he used photos from another seller & a different site. Tracked him in Malaysia & got ALL my money Back MYSELF.

Second Scam a Rolex Watch from Canada for $4400.00usd ($5019.00aud) PLUS $540.91 to Customs on arrival & the package was empty , so I would suggest they do not even ensure the Item is present just charge the fee. The second scam is a lulu , NOW Australia Post sends me the E6 claim letter but it is for the SELLER to claim , so theoretically he can get paid twice for a non item, thanks to Australia Post.
Claimed on Paypal & they gave me til the 7th to send all the paperwork. I did that NOW Today I receive another email from Paypal telling me I have to thew 13th to fax all the paperwork AGAIN & it MUST have a Fax letterhead ...Oh Boy !!!

That Varieties Gal · « **Reply #24 on:** May 10, 2010, 01:20:10 PM »

thank-you
it is all an awful lot of money
and very complicated
i have heard of these customs scams

jwr1au · « **Reply #25 on:** May 11, 2010, 09:25:39 AM »

I have just found 3 photos of My items (Louis Vuitton - not cheap ) with my description posted on ioffer under a Scam sellers ID . So I would suggest the Net is rife with scammers , but , it appears to me that there is NO Proactive measures Take by any of the host sites.

When I logged on to report this incident the Site would not let me proceed with the report.

So I logged into the sellers question section & warned in public it was a Scam.

jwr1au · « **Reply #26 on:** May 17, 2010, 02:59:54 PM »

Well , I am Totally flabbergasted.

I have just been notified by Paypal that the case is closed & NOT in my favour.

I supplied them even the pics of the Sellers Proving without a doubt they were photos taken over an hour apart of 2 DIFFERENT Models of Rolex watches & then the "Seller" offers $2500.00usd for me to drop my claim through Paypal & then Australia post notifies me that the "Seller" can claim compensation of the $5,019.00 NOT ME.

Where do I go . What & where is the Ombudsman ???

I really need help now. I am in shock

Centuries · « **Reply #27 on:** May 17, 2010, 03:56:51 PM »

Quote from: jwr1au on May 17, 2010, 02:59:54 PM

Well , I am Totally flabbergasted.

I have just been notified by Paypal that the case is closed & NOT in my favour.

I supplied them even the pics of the Sellers Proving without a doubt they were photos taken over an hour apart of 2 DIFFERENT Models of Rolex watches & then the "Seller" offers $2500.00usd for me to drop my claim through Paypal & then Australia post notifies me that the "Seller" can claim compensation of the $5,019.00 NOT ME.

Where do I go . What & where is the Ombudsman ???

I really need help now. I am in shock

Quote from: bnwt on April 25, 2010, 05:10:11 PM

don't even waste any more of your time trying to deal with paypal

go straight to http://www.fos.org.au/centric/home_page/resolving_disputes/how_to_lodge_a_dispute.jsp

The Financial Ombudsman ............... Phone 1300 780 808

watch paypal suddenly spring into action

jwr1au

It may be helpful to have a look at the post from BNWT . See the link in the above quote. It contains the Financial Ombudsman contact number as well as how to lodge a claim etc.. You may be better off ringing and explaining the problem as clearly as possible.

Liisa-Sx · « **Reply #28 on:** May 17, 2010, 04:00:12 PM »

Hi JWR,

Sorry to hear you are getting the run around, here is the link for the FOS, financial services ombudsman http://fos.org.au/centric/home_page.jsp

You can start proceedings there, other options listed below.

Did you call PayPal or was all correspondance via email?

From my experience email contact with payPal is for the best part unproductive as you never know who is reading it or how the contact is being dealt with or if they even truly understand the situation, try calling them first.

If Paypal has unfairly ruled against you in a dispute, whether you are a buyer or a seller you can take the matter further.

If you have been scammed as a buyer or as a seller and you feel you have sufficient documentation or proof that Paypal have wrongly ruled against in a dispute which is leaving you:

   * out of pocket due to a payment reversal or chargeback and Paypal refuse to refund you
   * or Paypal have taken/removed payment(s) from you
   * or Paypal has frozen your Paypal account
   * or placed a 21 day hold on an ebay payment you have received in your paypal account
   * or your paypal account has been fraudulently used

If there is behaviour/practice of paypal/ebay you find anti competitive or you think violates your rights as a consumer you could lodge a written complaint.

You can lodge written complains to:

1) The Banking Ombudsman
2) Office of Fair Trading
3) ACCC

If you do a search on the internet you will find websites for 1), 2) and 3).

Banking and Financial Services Ombudsman:

   * Phone : 1300 780 808
   * Fax : (03) 9613 7345
   * Address:

Banking and Financial Services Ombudsman
GPO Box 3A
MELBOURNE VIC 3001

Contact information for Paypal:

   * Phone : (02) 8223 9500
   * Fax : (02) 8288 0001
   * Email : service@paypal.com.au
   * Address:

PayPal Australia Pty Ltd
Locked Bag 10
Australia Square PO
SYDNEY NSW 1251

ACCC http://www.accc.gov.au/content/index.phtml/itemId/3634

   *Phone : The Infocentre can be contacted by calling 1300 302 502 (Australian callers)
* How To for the ACCC for Conusmers - http://www.accc.gov.au/content/index.phtml/itemId/815215

If the Banking Ombudsman rules in your favour then Paypal will have to reverse their decision and rule in your favour.

*CountessA* · « **Reply #29 on:** May 17, 2010, 05:06:18 PM »

You can take a look through this thread - I have never known anyone with a just claim to be denied by the Ombudsman.

*Brum6y* · « **Reply #30 on:** May 17, 2010, 07:22:28 PM »

I would envisage there would be some jurisdictional issues with a defrauding seller located in Canada....

Roo · « **Reply #31 on:** May 17, 2010, 08:12:58 PM »

Brumby....I think that JR should do Ok with the Ombudsman.

You have to remember....they rule on wether Paypal has done the wrong thing....not if the seller did.

Present the details and proof in a way that shows Paypal were negligent in their duty of care....in other words...show them what you showed us.....and see what happens.

*Brum6y* · « **Reply #32 on:** May 17, 2010, 08:30:14 PM »

Good point Roo.

Let us know how you go JR...!

jwr1au · « **Reply #33 on:** May 17, 2010, 09:28:31 PM »

Thank you everyone.

Will keep you updated & so very glad I kept ALL the mails etc.

Roo · « **Reply #34 on:** May 17, 2010, 09:40:08 PM »

Yeah...good luck JR...

On another note....do we have a thread with all the info that Liisa put up here?

A thread like that pinned at the top of the board would be real handy.

*smee* · « **Reply #35 on:** May 17, 2010, 09:54:11 PM »

yes its here http://www.ozroundtable.com/index.php?topic=876.0

but its a common thing that people rarely refer to pinned info threads

Roo · « **Reply #36 on:** May 17, 2010, 10:30:37 PM »

Thanks Smee...I kinda remembered somewhere...but haven't been to that thread for a while.

jwr1au · « **Reply #37 on:** May 19, 2010, 05:19:22 PM »

YAHOOOOooooo !!

Thank you all for your assistance.

Today I have been informed that the ANZ have credited my Card in a chargeback for the full amount & I have gotta say that we are over the Moon.

This is the second scam I have been caught on & both times ANZ have done the right thing by their customer. So even 9 years on Ebay doesn't make you bulletproof.

I have just found 2 "Sellers" on Ioffer using our Items photos etc for a Scam Sell to-day ....It seems Rife in the Internet market. :chainsaw:

Thank you all once again & I am so glad I had a place to Vent & Get advice. Paypal & Ebay Protection ..what a B****Y joke.

*Ubbie Max* · « **Reply #38 on:** May 19, 2010, 05:24:35 PM »

jwr1au. I'm very pleased that you obtained the outcome you deserved. Good stuff.

Your experience is a lesson for many people & it shows that, should Paypal not come to the party, there are other avenues available to arrive at a satisfactory conclusion.

Keep posting jwr1au, there is a lot of fun to be had here on OZRT as well as a lot of members who are only too willing to advise & help those who have need for such help.

Liisa-Sx · « **Reply #39 on:** May 19, 2010, 06:00:23 PM »

*Brum6y* · « **Reply #40 on:** May 19, 2010, 06:03:41 PM »

Quote from: jwr1au on May 19, 2010, 05:19:22 PM

Thank you all once again & I am so glad I had a place to Vent & Get advice.

jwr1au - you are most welcome!

I think I can say this safely on behalf of all of us here on the OzRT that your experience is exactly the sort of thing for which this site was created.

While we can't guarantee you'll win all the time - we have some great expertise that can give you a good chance.

To vent with safety and understanding for someone who just wants a fair go - then get advice and notch up a win... It's the sort of thing that encourages everyone here.

Congratulations on your win!

Centuries · « **Reply #41 on:** May 22, 2010, 01:03:24 AM »

jwr1au Congratulations. Excellent outcome

Poddy · « **Reply #42 on:** May 22, 2010, 04:39:05 AM »

Being a word economist, all I have to say to the detractors of this site who say that PayPal is safe and Banks are not.... is

*FluffyDuckee* · « **Reply #43 on:** May 22, 2010, 02:37:38 PM »

*smee* · « **Reply #44 on:** May 23, 2010, 12:16:11 AM »

just as well you have that brolly Fluff , the Podster is spraying a bit of saliva about isnt he

jwr1au · « **Reply #45 on:** July 15, 2010, 05:25:24 PM »

I could not believe it , I have been O/S for 6 weeks come back & find my 5K + refund has been sent back to the Scammers Paypal A/c (Reversed).

Quick phone call to my Bank & find that because they produced a Canadian Post Tracking note showing there was a delivery that was enough.

I then (Rage under Control ) reminded them that I had sent them the Mails ,The Color Photos proving it was 2 different Watch Models & the receipt from Oz Post for an EMPTY package & in fact now had a refund from Oz Customs for the Fees I paid.

24 hours later - $5K + returned reversed again. PHeeeeeewwww !

Do we HAVE to have PAYPAL to sell on Ebay ???? I thought it was going to change

*smee* · « **Reply #46 on:** July 15, 2010, 05:27:51 PM »

it changed as from yesterday

bnwt · « **Reply #47 on:** July 15, 2010, 05:59:36 PM »

Oh Dear ............Smith fails to win support for asylum centre

http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2010/07/15/2954923.htm

mandurahmum · « **Reply #48 on:** July 15, 2010, 06:54:41 PM »

Quote from: bnwt on July 15, 2010, 05:59:36 PM

Oh Dear ............Smith fails to win support for asylum centre

http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2010/07/15/2954923.htm

I think what he means about the trip being productive means that he bought a heap of cheap dvd's

News:

Author Topic: Scam Sellers (Read 23224 times)

jwr1au

*cupie*

jwr1au

*cupie*

jwr1au

jwr1au

White Witch

jwr1au

jwr1au

jwr1au

jwr1au

jwr1au

jwr1au

jwr1au

Poddy

jwr1au

cupie

cupie