Author Topic: 60% PLUS INCREASE ON HOUSEHOLD ELECTRICITY...WHAT NEXT?  (Read 39841 times)

shyer

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Re: 60% PLUS INCREASE ON HOUSEHOLD ELECTRICITY...WHAT NEXT?
« Reply #100 on: March 20, 2010, 01:21:47 PM »
I'm not absolutely sure - but I believe it would be due to the outside unit icing up - and losing efficiency. Ever noticed when your air conditioner is cooling inside, the outside unit is blowing hot air? The reverse applies when you're heating inside your home.
Yes and no icing up is really bad can break unit if not turned off. Before you ice up air con becomes inefficient and a simple radiator is more efficient. Below 10 degrees depending on humidity and some times other factors. Air cons become less efficent than fan heaters radiators ect. Insulating and solar hot water while a capital cost soon not only pay for themselves they add value to the property.

*Brum6y*

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Re: 60% PLUS INCREASE ON HOUSEHOLD ELECTRICITY...WHAT NEXT?
« Reply #101 on: March 20, 2010, 03:19:08 PM »
Quote
2. ........ DO NOT use Air con when outside temp below 10C for heating.

Air conditioners are a form of HEAT PUMP.  They work by 'pumping' heat from one place to another. 'Reverse Cycle' means it can pump heat in either direction.

In summer, heat is pumped from inside your house to the outside. In winter, heat is pumped from outside your house to the inside.

In theory, as long as the side that heat is taken from is above absolute zero (-273oC) a heat pump can warm up the other side.  In practice, there are a few things that complicate the situation. 

The main factor is simple economics - the cost for a particular benefit.  Unless you are into producing liquid nitrogen, you won't need a super duper cooling cycle so, to address typical domestic demands, your materials and design can be pretty straightforward.  The air conditioning market (as does any market) has found the balance on price and performance - so if you want to find out more on that - just ask a consultant (and pray they know more than you...)


Now, in terms of the energy required, pumping heat is just like pumping water - you need energy to pump it 'uphill' and the greater the difference in levels, the more energy is required.  So, if in summer it's 40o outside, and your air conditioner is set to 20o, it's going to be working harder than if it was set to 25o. Likewise, in winter, if its 10o outside and your air conditioner is set to 25o, it's going to be working harder than if it was set to 20o.

The basic rule is quite simple: The difference in temperature determines how much work has to be done to move a certain amount of heat.

One of the big pluses with a reverse cycle air conditioner is that on the heating cycle, under typical conditions**, you get more heat per unit of electricity than if you were to use an electric heater - ANY electric heater (includes fan heaters, bar radiators, column heaters, etc.)  It is quite possible for an air conditioner to use 1500W of electricity and provide more heat than a 2400W heater.  This is because the air conditioner is simply moving heat that already exists, whereas electric heaters are creating it from scratch.


** Typical conditions - don't you just know there are a couple of 'buts'....  (I'll just stick to the heating cycle, since there is a direct comparison to alternate forms of heating)

* The colder it is outside, the more work the air conditioner has to do to heat up inside which means more energy is required.  I haven't done the maths, but there will be a point where the air conditioner could start using more electricity for the same heating as an electric heater ... though I expect that will be a pretty extreme situation.
* Icing up is also a problem, since it greatly reduces the amount of heat that can be absorbed.  Remember that, as far as the heat pumping is concerned, the inside or outside temperature is the temperature of the inside or outside 'radiator' bit - and if its encased in ice.....

The icing up problem is one that many modern air conditioners can detect and, for a short period, work in the opposite direction to that desired, as a de-icing phase.

But the biggest issue by far is people trying to get their little air conditioner to work harder than it was ever meant to - either by setting the temperature too high (for warming) or too low (for cooling) and/or for a bigger area than the unit was designed for.

In short, if you don't hear the compressor cutting in and out every now and then ... and it's running continuously ... you are overworking it and it will work itself into the ground.


Other obvious things to pay attention to are curtains, insulation and all the other things already mentioned - to reduce the heat load the air conditioner has to deal with.  Also, as stuffy as you may feel it will get, close off the air-conditioned zone.  It is pointless to cool down a room on a hot day and to have a window open 'a crack' for some fresh air ... you are just allowing more hot air into the room which then has to be cooled down.  The same principle applies to to winter warming.

*Brum6y*

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Re: 60% PLUS INCREASE ON HOUSEHOLD ELECTRICITY...WHAT NEXT?
« Reply #102 on: March 20, 2010, 03:26:14 PM »
The modern insulation requirements for building go a long way in addressing the basic energy needs for comfort... but ever since I visited the Jenolan Caves many years ago, underground living has had its appeal.


I reckon the Hobbits got it right....

shyer

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Re: 60% PLUS INCREASE ON HOUSEHOLD ELECTRICITY...WHAT NEXT?
« Reply #103 on: March 20, 2010, 04:29:37 PM »
In theory, as long as the side that heat is taken from is above absolute zero (-273oC) a heat pump can warm up the other side.  In practice, there are a few things that complicate the situation. 
 
In practice with the refrigerants and pumps  used the least cost cross over point, to heat to 25 when outside goes below 10 . Must be compared, some A/C units will still be cost effective below zero RARE, if you have free wood or cheap natural gas for instance cost effective point may even be at 15 degrees outside.

Quote
Two major issues make conventional ASHPs unattractive as a heat source in cold climates.
From
http://www.highbeam.com/doc/1G1-201031232.html

And as far as pollutants go the A/C seemed very efficient as measured cooling or mild heating BUT then multiply the electricty used by 3. As 2/3 rds of electricty delivered is lost in manufacture excess heating and transmission loses . While natural gas for instance is cheap for some households and effective home efficiency can be over 90%

*Brum6y*

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Re: 60% PLUS INCREASE ON HOUSEHOLD ELECTRICITY...WHAT NEXT?
« Reply #104 on: March 20, 2010, 04:41:46 PM »
There's a couple of bits of the maths...

I had no idea of real world numbers, but these suggest a detailed assessment is warranted in more circumstances than I had considered.

shyer

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Re: 60% PLUS INCREASE ON HOUSEHOLD ELECTRICITY...WHAT NEXT?
« Reply #105 on: March 20, 2010, 04:51:24 PM »
PS if gas is available you will notice over 90% of commercial kitchens use gas even bottled LPG professional cooks prefer gas for 90% of heating for cooking. LPG is NOT a good home heating option.

*r3830*

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Re: 60% PLUS INCREASE ON HOUSEHOLD ELECTRICITY...WHAT NEXT?
« Reply #106 on: April 26, 2010, 10:40:00 PM »
There was a discussion a while ago regarding the benefits of going solar. I was unaware of this situation affecting people on pensions. So much for recouping installation costs..... and attempting to save a few dollars while supporting the environment.


Kevin Rudd stings pensioners for going green

http://www.news.com.au/money/money-matters/kevin-rudd-stings-pensioners-for-going-green/story-e6frfmd9-1225858168868?referrer=email&source=Punch_nl&emcmp=Punch&emchn=Newsletter&emlist=Member

*Ubbie Max*

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Re: 60% PLUS INCREASE ON HOUSEHOLD ELECTRICITY...WHAT NEXT?
« Reply #107 on: April 27, 2010, 11:11:36 PM »
I'm dreading any possible price increase in cartons of Pepsi Max. They have already increased Pluto Pup prices.

*Brum6y*

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Re: 60% PLUS INCREASE ON HOUSEHOLD ELECTRICITY...WHAT NEXT?
« Reply #108 on: April 28, 2010, 12:20:11 AM »
Maybe, with your consumption Ubb, you could be supplied by the factory for 'commercial' quantities....

Might have to make room for a couple of palettes at a time, though...

tellomon

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Re: 60% PLUS INCREASE ON HOUSEHOLD ELECTRICITY...WHAT NEXT?
« Reply #109 on: April 28, 2010, 12:43:13 AM »
Right, Ubb! Be an endorser of the goods!
"The B@zturd Love Child of Comix & a News Organization"

*Brum6y*

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Re: 60% PLUS INCREASE ON HOUSEHOLD ELECTRICITY...WHAT NEXT?
« Reply #110 on: April 28, 2010, 02:55:53 PM »
There's an idea...!!!

Ubb ... all you need is celebrity status through some means and you can promote Pepsi Max - with payment by way of the product !


Maybe Ubb can take up the lead on a new Ad campaign for Pepsi Max... After all they had the 'Solo man'.......

tommy.irene

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Re: 60% PLUS INCREASE ON HOUSEHOLD ELECTRICITY...WHAT NEXT?
« Reply #111 on: April 29, 2010, 06:01:54 PM »
SNIPE>>111..
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