Author Topic: Can a buyer lodge a SNAD dispute without....  (Read 4142 times)

*Brum6y*

  • Knights of the RT
  • Knight of the RT
  • *****
  • Posts: 19021
Can a buyer lodge a SNAD dispute without....
« on: January 06, 2010, 10:48:26 PM »
... having received the goods?

What a silly question, you say!

Well, there's an even sillier answer.... YES.

Not surprised?  Well, I suppose that's understandable..... but wait, there's more...!

I have been told a seller recently asked this very question of eBay - and eBay replied.  They gave the very same answer.... YES.


I would really like to hear the reasoning behind this ... anyone game to offer any?

*CountessA*

  • Administrator
  • Knight of the RT
  • *****
  • Posts: 32763
Re: Can a buyer lodge a SNAD dispute without....
« Reply #1 on: January 06, 2010, 10:51:04 PM »
Perhaps the rationale is that the description may have been altered before the end of the auction...?

Perhaps eBay means that there's no procedure in place to check whether or not an item has been received before a SNAD dispute is opened?
"No man is an Iland, intire of it selfe; every man is ...a part of the maine; ...any mans death diminishes me, because I am involved in Mankinde"

*Yibida*

  • Action Group
  • Knight of the RT
  • *****
  • Posts: 17998
Re: Can a buyer lodge a SNAD dispute without....
« Reply #2 on: January 06, 2010, 10:52:30 PM »
That was a sneeky snipe if ever I saw one Tess !...LOL

*Brum6y*

  • Knights of the RT
  • Knight of the RT
  • *****
  • Posts: 19021
Re: Can a buyer lodge a SNAD dispute without....
« Reply #3 on: January 06, 2010, 10:59:17 PM »
There is one example I have been informed of where an overseas sale got an INR, despite tracking information provided showing it was with Customs in the recipient's country.  Found in favour of the seller, the INR was closed, but the buyer then raised a SNAD ... with the item still in customs.

*smee*

  • Action Group
  • Knight of the RT
  • *****
  • Posts: 41735
Re: Can a buyer lodge a SNAD dispute without....
« Reply #4 on: January 06, 2010, 11:02:38 PM »
well the buyer has to prove he posted it back .... now how can he do that if its with customs ? so at this point it cant be upheld

low-enghooi

  • Knight of the RT
  • *****
  • Posts: 2474
Re: Can a buyer lodge a SNAD dispute without....
« Reply #5 on: January 07, 2010, 12:12:12 PM »
despite tracking information provided showing it was with Customs in the recipient's country.

May I know which country? Earlier I have one registered parcel from Australia went missing. Not with the post office. Not with the custom. In fact we can't track where it is after it left Australia Post. So just curious.

well the buyer has to prove he posted it back .... now how can he do that if its with customs ? so at this point it cant be upheld

OK. Now this parcel is with the customs. Neither the seller nor the buyer is at fault. But if custom for whatever reason decided to detain (or steal) the item, then what can the buyer do?

Can the seller claim the insurance (assuming insured) from the post office? Or for the seller's post office to contact the buyer's custom to sort out the matter?

I believe this is not an isolated case. This maybe exactly (though I can't confirm) what happens to my parcel, the difference is we can't track it down. The seller managed to claim the insurance from Australia Post and I got the paypal refund. A tedious exercise for the seller.

I must add, she is a good seller.

*Brum6y*

  • Knights of the RT
  • Knight of the RT
  • *****
  • Posts: 19021
Re: Can a buyer lodge a SNAD dispute without....
« Reply #6 on: January 07, 2010, 04:00:25 PM »
despite tracking information provided showing it was with Customs in the recipient's country.

May I know which country?

Since this isn't my issue and I haven't been given the OK to post about it here - I will not go into specific details ... but it is in Europe.

Quote


Earlier I have one registered parcel from Australia went missing. Not with the post office. Not with the custom. In fact we can't track where it is after it left Australia Post. So just curious.

If it's registered, then it's Australia Posts responsibility to find it - and they're better set up to do it anyway.

*smee*

  • Action Group
  • Knight of the RT
  • *****
  • Posts: 41735
Re: Can a buyer lodge a SNAD dispute without....
« Reply #7 on: January 07, 2010, 04:10:06 PM »
Since this isn't my issue and I haven't been given the OK to post about it here - I will not go into specific details ... but it is in Europe.

So you cant answer my question ?

*Brum6y*

  • Knights of the RT
  • Knight of the RT
  • *****
  • Posts: 19021
Re: Can a buyer lodge a SNAD dispute without....
« Reply #8 on: January 07, 2010, 04:22:55 PM »
Sorry Smee - your post just seemed to be a rhetorical question and making a statement.

I don't disagree with you and the matter has not been resolved (that I know of) - but Paypal don't necessarily follow logic in their decisions, do they?

So, while I may agree with you, it's Paypal who will be making the call.

low-enghooi

  • Knight of the RT
  • *****
  • Posts: 2474
Re: Can a buyer lodge a SNAD dispute without....
« Reply #9 on: January 07, 2010, 04:28:44 PM »
Thanks Brumby.

*smee*

  • Action Group
  • Knight of the RT
  • *****
  • Posts: 41735
Re: Can a buyer lodge a SNAD dispute without....
« Reply #10 on: January 07, 2010, 04:43:02 PM »
yes I agree Brumby , logical and paypal rarely go in same sentence together , however if the y have knocked back the more relevant claim of INR then they would have to knock back SNAD particularly as to have a succesful SNAD claim you must be able to prove that you returned item and there is no way buyer can at the moment

*Brum6y*

  • Knights of the RT
  • Knight of the RT
  • *****
  • Posts: 19021
Re: Can a buyer lodge a SNAD dispute without....
« Reply #11 on: January 07, 2010, 05:55:34 PM »
Well, 'proof' of return of item is useless. You could send back an orphaned pet rock ... just have the paperwork and you're home and hosed.

... and if you want to be more convincing, make sure the size of the package (especially if it gets cubed) and the weight are consistent with the item.

But I don't think Paypal would bother checking ... too much like real work.

*Brum6y*

  • Knights of the RT
  • Knight of the RT
  • *****
  • Posts: 19021
Re: Can a buyer lodge a SNAD dispute without....
« Reply #12 on: January 07, 2010, 05:57:33 PM »
There are more details about this particular story that will make its outcome VERY interesting to see.

I will try to contact the seller and see if he is amenable to it being discussed here - with more detail.

*Brum6y*

  • Knights of the RT
  • Knight of the RT
  • *****
  • Posts: 19021
Re: Can a buyer lodge a SNAD dispute without....
« Reply #13 on: January 07, 2010, 09:10:04 PM »
Perhaps the rationale is that the description may have been altered before the end of the auction...?

I hadn't thought of that - but it is not unreasonable.  I don't think I've ever double checked a listing for an item I've won before paying.

Quote

Perhaps eBay means that there's no procedure in place to check whether or not an item has been received before a SNAD dispute is opened?

That may be the case, but the question was raised in response to an actual situation where tracking information clearly showed it had NOT been delivered.

I've always had an issue with 'proof' of postage - in either direction.  There is nothing in place to prove what was sent, only that something was sent ... even IF eBay or Paypal were to investigate thoroughly.

*Brum6y*

  • Knights of the RT
  • Knight of the RT
  • *****
  • Posts: 19021
Re: Can a buyer lodge a SNAD dispute without....
« Reply #14 on: January 08, 2010, 01:21:40 AM »
Well, I have news...!

I contacted the seller who has given me a copy of the files he has sent to the BFSO and has made this invitation: "let me know if you need any other details at all."

I've glanced through it and the story is interesting to say the least, but I will look more closely later today.

The information I have is quite uncensored and contains name and address information, case numbers and so on.  Some of this would most certainly NOT be appropriate to post here - so if I do post something that is censored, rest assured it will have been from my hand and I will state this with the post.  Also know this: that it is only for the protection of this site.
 
If I have any questions about suitability of any information, I will be contacting Admin before I post.

*Brum6y*

  • Knights of the RT
  • Knight of the RT
  • *****
  • Posts: 19021
Re: Can a buyer lodge a SNAD dispute without....
« Reply #15 on: January 08, 2010, 01:34:29 AM »
I will start off with this, as it relates directly to my original question.

It is the original email advising of the SNAD dispute:

From: service@ paypal.com.au
Subject: First Request for Information About Buyer Complaint: Case ID no.
(Case number)
Date: 31 December 2009 10:54:49 PM GMT+08:00
To:
(Seller's email address)


Hello (Seller's name),
(Buyer's name) recently opened a dispute against this transaction indicating
that the purchased item was significantly different than what was described.

The buyer's claim is in regard to merchandise that either was never
received or did not match your original description. Please understand that
until our investigation is complete, the funds associated with this
transaction may be temporarily held. For more information, please review
our User Agreement.

Please be aware that until we complete our investigation, we may place a
hold on funds associated with this transaction.


(Transaction details follow)


So here it is... the answer to my question, from an official Paypal email:

"The buyer's claim is in regard to merchandise that either was never
received or did not match your original description."



.... but the story gets better ... much better.