A fraudulent eBay “SCO”—what, another one?

[Philip.Cohen]

Buyer Beware: Online Auction Scam Targets Bidders
http://www.ktla.com/news/landing/ktla-sweeps-ebay-buyer-beware,0,3668170.story

This is an interesting story. As we all know, eBay claims that their introduction of non-unique masking of bidders’ already anonymous but unique bidding IDs was to protect bidders from such scams—and, of course, anyone with even a small fraction of their brain remaining knows that reason is simply disingenuous eBay spin, the further non-unique masking of bidding IDs having no purpose other than to further obscure sophisticated shill bidding—fraud that eBay deliberately chose to facilitate and from which eBay profits.

As far as even genuine “second chance offers” (SCO) are concerned, I would be surprised if the majority of them are not the result of failed attempts at shill bidding fraud by unscrupulous sellers. But, that’s OK too, because eBay will profit from any increased sale price.

Regardless, the blocking of access to bidders’ direct email addresses should be sufficient to protect bidders from receiving a fraudulent SCO via their direct email address, should it not?

And so I have to wonder how did this scammer obtained the seller’s real name, the bidder’s direct email address and, even more materially, how did he obtain the bidder’s real name? I would have thought that only the seller of the item in the alleged scammed auction could possibly know or ascertain these details.

And, can you still open an account with a financial institution in the US without proving who you are?

Any comments?

And, for anyone interested in an update of the deviousness of eBay generally, and in particular eBay’s demonstrable and deliberate criminal facilitation of the rampant shill bidding fraud being perpetrated by many unscrupulous professional sellers on buyers on nominal-start auctions in particular (and some PayPal horror stories also ), an introduction thereto can be found at
http://www.auctionbytes.com/forum/phpBB/viewtopic.php?p=6502877

[*Brum6y*]

As far as even genuine “second chance offers” (SCO) are concerned, I would be surprised if the majority of them are not the result of failed attempts at shill bidding fraud by unscrupulous sellers. But, that’s OK too, because eBay will profit from any increased sale price.

While I agree that SCO's are a logical avenue for an over-zealous shill bidder, I would challenge your use of the word 'majority'.  You may be right, but I would feel happier if there were some real statistics to support it.

My concern comes from the fact that this puts a cloud over any seller that offers SCOs - including the genuine ones.  I know my seller friend has offered SCOs when they have two or three units of an item ... and they don't know what the market response will be, so they only list one at a minimal starting price. If it doesn't sell or sells at opening bid, then they won't suffer greatly financially. If, however, there is a bidding war with four people fighting over it (which has happened) then the final price is healthy and the price for a SCO is as well - which allows two buyers to get the item they want and provides the seller with an opportunity to make two healthy sales.

I understand this is just your opinion, Philip - as my response is mine.  The reality is likely in between - but eBay aren't going to be forthcoming with the stats, so we will just have to state our thoughts and leave it at that.


But one wonders how - despite eBay's anonymity efforts - the scammer obtained the info they used.  In the video clip, the seller refers to the scammer having 'stolen their identity' - which doesn't suggest their account was hijacked ... and that only adds to the mystery.

[Philip.Cohen]

I guess I'm not buying the sort of stuff your friend is selling. I'm tending to buy collectible items that sellers do not have multiples of. In my three years of buying on eBay the only SCO I have received was as a result of a failed bid to shill bid me. Needless to say eBay could see the obvious connection between the shill and the seller: probably had different IP addresses. My opinion therefore is based upon my personal experience of one SCO on about 240 purchases on eBay.

I've mentioned this elsewhere but the item I was obviously shilled on was for an original paiting by a certain artist, the overbidder that "did not pay" happed to (then) have that little symbol alongside their ID that indicated that they had changed their ID recently (within the then past 30 days I think it was then). When I looked, the previous ID contained the same name as the artist whose painting I has bidding on. These circumstances meant nothing to eBay. You will also notice that there is no longer any notice of such change to a bidder's underlying ID, so shills really don't have to register new shill IDs they can simply change the ID. Of course, why would eBay continue with that notification as it might help buyers keep track of suspected shill bidders—even with the current non-unique masking of bidders' IDs. Donahoe would not see that as serving any purpose for eBay.

[*Brum6y*]

Sorry Phil, I did mean to comment about the types of product involved.

You are right - there are value, desirability and uniqueness issues that vary.  A collectible coin is a higher risk target than, say, a non-descript blanket.

My seller services a niche that is generally considered conservative and 98% of the products are under $50 - so you may well not have a come across them yourself, but I can understand your interests may bring you closer to the shill experience.


But then that is something which I think we all need to appreciate: eBay members encompass an extremely broad spectrum of interests and experiences - and that the problems encountered by a seller of mobile phones are likely to differ to a seller of plastic bags.

(I have noticed in some places (interestingly, not here on the OzRT) that there are some sellers who simply show how narrow their thinking is when they try to TELL another seller how to run their business when they don't know anything about it. It's laughable when you see a two year seller of clothing patches doing $5k a year trying to instruct a 30 year veteran B&M computer seller doing $5k a week - and actually believing they know better.)

[Philip.Cohen]

Not only that but many of these “experts” are barely literate.

If anyone wants to see some inane forum activity, introduce yourself to the clique of bored (and angry) housewives (and househusbands) that infest the eBay UK forums.

I very recently got another 30 days on the eBay “naughty chair” for daring to give a detailed answer to a trick question on shill bidding from one of the “girls” after I had made the mistake of claiming that I knew just about all there was to know about shill bidding after posting a comment about eBay UK’s finally dropping the devious “Bidder x” aliases in place of that which the rest of the eBay world has now had for a year or so and which gives buyers a little more chance of watching for and thereby avoiding such shills.

Not that the ban worries me, there is little to be learned on any of the eBay boards now, particularly not on the UK boards, and I was really only stirring the pot anyway. Of those that are still using the eBay forums, I suspect they are equally divided into naïve buyers naïve and/or unscrupulous sellers with some total idiots thrown in for good measure.

And, I wonder how the children are behaving in the old “sand pit” on eBay AU?

[*Brum6y*]

Three guesses... (should only need one...)

[jwr1au]

After being scammed , I have taken far greater notice of items & "bidding " history , so far I have found in one short session 5 dealers from the USA 3 of them Power Sellers have bidders on Luxury items starting Low but whose bids have a history of 100% with that seller.

I have had 2 SCO lately & found both OK. I think the Biggest scams are selling items that do not exist. One kid in Queensalnd did it for $2Mill. what does that say about Paypal Protection & Ebay safety ???



That's what it says

[*CountessA*]

I must have missed such posters, as I encountered primarily some extremely funny, witty, delightful people on the UK forums.

[Philip.Cohen]

I don't mean to be not "extremely funny, witty, delightful" when I post on these boards; but I don't come here or go there to socialise; I post to try to bring, and to hold, attention on eBay's and PayPal's utter unscrupulousness and lack of professionalism. That most on the posters on the UK boards are hostile to such critical posts is very obvious to me, and what that says about how they trade on eBay, I will leave to others to make up their own minds.

I enjoy dabbling on eBay; I just don't enjoy having to be constantly on the alert all the time lest I be taken advantage of by one of the demostrably many unscrupulous sellers whom unscrupulous eBay, by their total lack of professionalism, knowingly aids and abetts to defraud otherwise naive buyers.

As far as the UK boards are concerned I have never ever come across any "fun, wit or delight" thereon; then, I never post there looking for such "extremely funny, witty, delightful" response. Frankly, and without wishing to offend, I would hope that I will always have something better to do with my time.

[*smee*]

Trust me Phil there is no danger that you will ever be "extremely funny, witty, or  delightful" because you are so tunnel visioned and obsessed with your constant bombarbment with your propaganda on all forums which you post ....if you could just vary it slightly occassionly and perhaps on the odd occassion contribute something positive perhaps others wouldnt find it so boring might pay more attention to any truths you might have to say ..... the repetative posts and over use of words such as unscrupulous the constant use of inverted comas , calling people names such as noise and accussing anyone who dares to question your theories of being eBay employees quite frankly has worn thin ......
you do yourself no favours IMO

I do however understand that it takes all sorts of personalites to make up a forum ....sorry we and our UK friends do not all meet your requirements !

[*Yibida*]

I can't get to my photo bucket account to get my couch/pop corn Giff while at work.... so I'll just pull up this virtual couch for now...

[Philip.Cohen]

So Smee,

Let me get this straight. Apart from repeating the gist of what I have already just said; you then, by inference, go on to suggest that eBay is a trustworthy, ethical organization that you are quite comfortable being in a business relationship with; that “Noise” Donahoe is not some sort of unscrupulous, arrogant, infantile idiot that does not have the faintest idea of what he is doing with the eBay Marketplace; that the eBay Marketplace is a perfectly safe place for buyers as shill bidding is not rampant but is simply a figment of my imagination; that the eBay Marketplace is a safe environment for sellers as all buyers are scrupulous and would therefore never take advantage of eBay’s/PayPal’s current bias against sellers; do I have to go on? 

The words “unscrupulous” and “unprofessional” describe both eBay and PayPal to a tee; I would go so far as to say they are “criminal” in that, by their application of non-unique masking of bidding IDs, eBay knowingly facilitates shill bidding fraud on unsuspecting buyers, and PayPal, by their totally unprofessional transaction mediation process, effectively facilitates fraud by unscrupulous buyers on sellers. But none of this worries you, apparently. Is that what you are saying?

My allegations are not simply my theories, they are supported by facts and circumstances which I have previously supplied and which I presume you have never bothered to peruse—there is more than one paragraph involved.

And, I intend to keep posting my concerns about eBay whenever I have the opportunity to do so, in particular in response to hack journalists that simply regurgitate nonsensical spin directly from the eBay Dept of Spin.

By all means, if you find my campaign against eBay boring, don’t read any of it. And, yes, to me eBay’s unprofessionalism and unscrupulousness is so blatantly obvious it is difficult for me to think of any person habitually supportive of eBay as being other than simply extremely naïve or an eBay “tool”.

Sorry Smee but you and I are living on different planets.

[*smee*]

Sorry Smee but you and I are living on different planets.
 
 exactly Phil and I am on Earth .... no idea where you are .

and by all means Phil you are quite entitled to drivel your views anywhere you wish .... but my point is dont have a crack at all the other posters just because they dont embrace you wherever you go , IMO you were over the top in your insults of the posters on eBay uk , many people have many different reasons for posting on forums , not all are obsessed with the pus that you spew forth ....
quite a lot of people go to these forums for friendship and fun and frivolity etc just coz you dont agree with it doesnt make it wrong .... some go to forums because they are disabled or sick and cant get out , some are just lonely and need a friend ,some post coz they are in abusive relationships,  some have lost love ones , and some just dont want to face people in person .... some go to forums because they dont like eBay or shill bidding   .....each to their own .... but if you want to talk down to people because they are having fun then shame on you .... your posts are no more or less important than theirs , the difference is that you preach and try and ram your opinions down everyones throats and so damn repetative and judgemental

[*Yibida*]

There it is !!!!

[*Ubbie Max*]

Lets not start blueing folks. I might be forced to make an appearance with either the beloved Barret 50 cal or, heaven forbid, the keelhauling ropes.

[*CountessA*]

Exactly...

It is interesting to see how each of us brings a different perception to the various issues at play here. The important point to remember is that each perspective is a part of a full panorama.

[*Yibida*]

I got room for one more on my couch....

[Philip.Cohen]

I recall that I have expressed this sentiment in the past but, unfortunately, to no avail: If only Smee could bring him/herself to ignore my posts I would quite happily ignore his/hers.

[*smee*]