Author Topic: Pick a schill a day  (Read 53848 times)

ernest_price

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Pick a schill a day
« on: July 16, 2009, 08:36:43 AM »
One of my daughters and I were looking for 2 camera related items. Very very different items, mind you.

I find my item. It's on a 10 day auction with 5 days gone. No bids. Excellent. Up at some crazy early time so thought I'd break my golden rule and just bid the start price. Within 15 minutes there was a counter bid. Hmmm. That's a classic schill. Hmmm. No bids for 5 days then suddenly someone bids 15 mins after I bid. Leave new higher bidder to buy it. Show to daughter later that day - she reckons I'm a special for a second chance offer within 30 mins of auction ending. Says so with the biggest grin EVER on her face.  ;D

While she's looking at my item, she sees the seller has what she's looking for. So to test it out she pops in a bid, also for an item that's been going for quite a while with no bids. Within 30 mins she is outbid. Pops around to see me with now the newest biggest ever grin.  ;D  Reckons she's also going to get a second chance offer.

So - I do the right thing and we bet morning tea on the result :) Neither of us upped our bids.

Last night was the auction end for both items.

We both got second chance offers within 15 mins of auction end.  :applause:

The scary thing? I like to think I can pick a schill from the stats pretty easily with my background at work. But this one was just about as far away from a schill bidder history as I could find. There were 29 different sellers they had bid with over the last month. 152 bids and only 9 with this seller. Only 6 items won.

It used to be so easy to pick a schill with people's real ID's. Now it's very confusing. The buyer history on my daughter's outbidder was very similar but not the same person. Nearly as though there was faked info popped around the real bidder info. Think I need a tin foil hat at this point. :)

*cupie*

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Re: Pick a schill a day
« Reply #1 on: July 16, 2009, 09:04:05 AM »
Hi Ernie....does anyone remember Philip from the old rt?  He was dead set against shill bidders and he appeared on the Today show this morning re: Shill bidding on Ebay.....now that's commitment.   Good on him !!

ernest_price

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Re: Pick a schill a day
« Reply #2 on: July 16, 2009, 09:25:51 AM »
Yup. I posted his SMH article a few days ago on the eBay and media reports thread.

Mind you, must be careful ... maybe, just maybe, my daughter and I just had someone randomly outbid us very soon after we placed our bid then both randomly withdraw from the auction and let our seller know within 15 mins of auction end. Nice polite buyers, which is what I'd expect on eBay in Australia!

A part of me says "don't get involved" with the logical conclusion/ugliness of the bidder history bit.

Then again, based on what I've seen over the years in the financial services industry, plus the amazing stuff that happened to cause the GFC why would I be surprised.

ernest_price adjusts tin foil hat.

 

*cupie*

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Re: Pick a schill a day
« Reply #3 on: July 16, 2009, 09:41:41 AM »
No need to be careful on this topic Ernie...it's a published article we're discussing...cat's out of the bag, and this is just consumer opinion.  Philip makes a very strong case though and quite amazingly...I just went over to ebay and couldn't access the News forums...they don't seem to be visible.....think it might have something to do with the News story?  

No doubt we all recall how they regulated shilling in the RE industry?  And the traditional auction industry?  All bidders must be verified before they can bid right?  ...it's called a 'deterrent'.  mmmmhhh!!!!!  interesting concept eh?

*cupie*

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Re: Pick a schill a day
« Reply #4 on: July 16, 2009, 09:46:52 AM »
Just figured out why I can't see the Ebay news forums....doh...not signed in.....so...one thing for sure...Ebay don't want the public to know how unhappy their sellers are.....the 'secret society'.....in Ebay space...nobody sees you scream.....lmao

tellomon

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Re: Pick a schill a day
« Reply #5 on: July 16, 2009, 10:22:21 AM »
Just figured out why I can't see the Ebay news forums....doh...not signed in.....so...one thing for sure...Ebay don't want the public to know how unhappy their sellers are.....the 'secret society'.....in Ebay space...nobody sees you scream.....lmao

From the eBay.com boards over the past 1 1/2 years, I have loads of copies on the topic of CENSORSHIP.
Good reading about bad action.

I need to find a publisher. I can't do anything......

Here's random sample:

ebay and free speech stonemanoz   (205  ) View Listings  | Report Nov-01-07 17:15 PDT Clearly ebay does not believe in free speech,because if you criticize it in anyway you're penalised.Yet it allows members to criticize others via feedback given whether you're a buyer or seller,along with allowing abusive emails to be sent between  members,if you complain it comes up with dozens of excuses,asks you for more and more information which you give  them,and a new person responds each time you give them the info they want so you have to keep repeating yourself.It's thier  way of cheating you.Then if you go to the discussion boards for help,they can penalise you again if they don't like anything's  that said - clearly they can't handle the truth!This leaves ebay users with nowhere to go.Is it any wonder people are leaving  ebay in droves?and then thier profits are reduced.Ebay is no longer the user friendly site it once was,it's new found level of  arrogance seems to know no bounds.It needs to go back to the old days of say 4/5 years ago,ebay is a business afterall and  while all businesses operate to make a profit,if a business continues to put profit way ahead of people,the business will soon  suffer.Come on ebay treat people as you'd like to be treated,go back to the old ways.  What's New See what's  new,  cool  and,  soon  on eBay! Get  fast  answers  to  questions  in the  Answer  Center!  Help Now!

"The B@zturd Love Child of Comix & a News Organization"

*barny*

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Re: Pick a schill a day
« Reply #6 on: July 16, 2009, 11:00:10 AM »
G'Day Ernie,

I had a similar "second chance offer" not too long ago, and I too was sure it was shilling... But, upon further examination I was able to establish that the seller had multiple identical items, even though his item description used the word "rare"..

Maybe your seller had more than one... Maybe ??????

 :wine:
If you try to fail, and succeed, what have you done ??

ernest_price

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Re: Pick a schill a day
« Reply #7 on: July 16, 2009, 11:18:01 AM »
:) More than one, on multiple items for auction. Maybe :) And both times a higher bid came in within X minutes of the first bid. Maybe :)

*cupie*

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Re: Pick a schill a day
« Reply #8 on: July 16, 2009, 11:23:15 AM »
Barny, I don't pretend to know much about shill bidding but the very fact that it's all anonymous gives rise to the possibility and instills fear into bidders that it might be.....even you thought you'd been shilled at first.....that's the problem... removing any possibility of shilling is a better way to go..Proactive mitigation...not a new concept by any means.  

As I said in the RE and traditional auction marketplace, it has been addressed in no uncertain terms....all bidders must be verified as being genuine.....at one time in RE...shill bidders would attend an auction to bid up the price....now they must register before the auction and anyone shilling is stitched with the contract of sale or breach of contract...one or the other.   Great deterrent....stopped shilling in the RE industry overnight.

Shilling is not a new concept, and if it's possible, some people will push the envelope.  I have a simple rule...I bid only what I'm prepared to pay and after that I don't bid anymore.... if I'm outbid....that's the end of it....other items I just watch till the end before deciding to bid.....

Curiously...on a number of items I've bid on over the past 6 months (and didn't win) several have shown up again in new listings shortly after the auction ended....this makes me suspicious, and thankful that I didn't bid more.  Needless to say I don't bid on the item a second time....

It could be quite innocent, but the fact that it raises a concern about shilling can't be ignored either.  Where there's a loophole certain individuals will use it to deceive the unsuspecting = human nature.

ernest_price

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Re: Pick a schill a day
« Reply #9 on: July 16, 2009, 12:07:47 PM »
I should add, before someone raises it, that the flipside of the whole deal here is if I'm prepared to pay say $100 for something and I can get it delivered to my door for that then I should be happy, irrespective of:
  • schill
  • high dropship postage
  • any other annoyance that may or may not be in the spirit/adherence to agreements etc of eBay sales
  • any manipulation of data or reasons for not making all sales transparent that eBay engage in




tellomon

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Re: Pick a schill a day
« Reply #10 on: July 16, 2009, 01:26:01 PM »
= human nature.

Ain't that the specific load o' crap that we don't need.

--->Philosophically speaking, of course....<-----

C):-{=  <" ooops. the "P" word... "<<
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bnwt

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Re: Pick a schill a day
« Reply #11 on: July 16, 2009, 01:38:36 PM »
The Today Story

eBay scam



video presentation

http://today.ninemsn.com.au/article.aspx?id=838042

tellomon

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Re: Pick a schill a day
« Reply #12 on: July 16, 2009, 02:14:05 PM »
Heavy!

"The B@zturd Love Child of Comix & a News Organization"

imperfect

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Re: Pick a schill a day
« Reply #13 on: July 16, 2009, 07:02:21 PM »

tellomon

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Re: Pick a schill a day
« Reply #14 on: July 16, 2009, 08:19:10 PM »


I am so BOOTLEGGING this pic, that I can't believe that it came from hereabouts locally & became a National scourge  (This used to be a nice 'hood....) and the top Brass are throwing a shindig TONIGHT at all the usual locations.....

( Tello: "Beware of strange offerings!")
"The B@zturd Love Child of Comix & a News Organization"

ernest_price

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Re: Pick a schill a day
« Reply #15 on: July 23, 2009, 07:46:34 AM »
As a follow on - I just bid on another of that original seller's items. They actually have some good stuff.  ;D

Sure enough, 5 days gone on the auction and no bids. Within 10 mins of me putting a bid on I get outbid. My daughter decided to do the same, again (gee I wonder where she gets her evil streak from??) and like clockwork she bid on a cheap item and it took 40 mins for the outbid to happen.

Once again, the person/s who outbid us both had very very similar info, but just not identical. Again, more like some identical core data with some faked data popped aropund it so it's not obvious it's the same person. Tin foil hat time again, again, again.

No bets with my daughter this time. Second chance offers are 100-1 on.

mandurahmum

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Re: Pick a schill a day
« Reply #16 on: July 24, 2009, 09:06:42 PM »
Shill bidding is rampant in the coins and bullion section - we try and warn people on that discussion board, as ebay does not seem to do anything about it.

I cant tell you the amount of reports I have made since our moderator left, and normally nothing is done, even though the evidence is clear for all to see. 

We have one at the moment that apparently ebay have found no evidence of shill bidding even though I reported that the "buyer" seems to bid on all the sellers items, and has a lot of bid retractions and has 100% bidding activity with the seller.  Interestingly the same buyer only deals with that seller. 




*smee*

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Re: Pick a schill a day
« Reply #17 on: July 24, 2009, 09:08:05 PM »

hi
mm

mandurahmum

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Re: Pick a schill a day
« Reply #18 on: July 24, 2009, 09:11:14 PM »
Hi smee

Bellagina

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Re: Pick a schill a day
« Reply #19 on: July 24, 2009, 10:20:26 PM »
Apparently, ebay will only consider it shill bidding if the ids share an isp address, a last name, a phone number, or an address - so you can just ask your brother in law down the road to bid on each auction for you....
Bid  / buy  history has nothing to do with it!

ernest_price

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Re: Pick a schill a day
« Reply #20 on: July 24, 2009, 10:39:39 PM »
No wonder eBay say it virtually doesn't exist if that's how they check it.

bobbybigbear

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Re: Pick a schill a day
« Reply #21 on: July 24, 2009, 11:04:03 PM »
I have a section devoted to Shill bidding in my book. It details the rise of " Certain members of Scambay ", and how eBay has changed it's policy to aid shill bidding. It also details how each manipulation of the auctions system is designed to enhance the act of shill bidding, and hides the identity of those who do it for a living.

In my opinion, ebay, who's US staff were found guilty in court of registering shilling id's and using for the practice, outsourced this profitable arm of it's business.
The site many of us suspect of winning the contract to operate this, is a US registered company, and upon investigation, found it to be a Wholesale Beauty and Cosmetic Company in California US.  In an attempt to get the details of the Directors, for a trace, I reported it to the members on one of my forums.

Within a few days, the Domain was moved to another registrant company and they were paid to hide ownership details.

With domain registrations you can pay around $110 US, to have your details hidden and whois will only show the registrant holders name.


We had to end the research there and then because a company trace of US records showed it was merely a dot com company.  I can only assume that ebay would have to pay payments to this site I mention and what better way to do it.
I also believe this site probably operates live world, in conjunction with ebay, which would explain why many of us have to rely on a forum like this, having been banned from ebay's boards.  It would explain how this site gets it's information, while pretending to hate ebay.  I assume such a site would come in very handy for peeps to go and air their suspicions.

I would suggest rather than look at who a site like this would name as crooks etc; look at who they don't name.  You would probably notice that those that everyone used to see, as being habitual shill bidders, never get a mention.

Now you would also think that some power sellers would pay for such a site to use their shill bidding services because it can never be traced back to them.

The people who own the site would be very skilled at registering ID's through proxy servers, using details from people they have purchased from and who have been added to their data base.

No company in the history of the internet can claim to having one quarter of a countries population as it's members, yet ebay does.  It is my opinion that ebays membership is less than 1.5 million genuine members.

As this is just my opinion, and not an accusation, I would welcome others opinions on whether my opinion has merit.

A shill bid of just $5.00 per sale on Ebay, amounts to millions per week in FVF's so you can see why such as joint venture would be worthwhile.  You could perhaps also see why some of the players in that game would want to keep cleansing the forums of anyone who remotely hints at whats going on, or who they think may be trouble in the future.  Especially those who joined the rebellion.

You could also see why some of those people would join a site like OZtion to screw the site, gain as many details as possible, because quite simply, those I have encountered on a site like this would be, are multi lingual, which would lead me to assume that this is a world wide event.


OK, I'll go and take my pills now ;D












ernest_price

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Re: Pick a schill a day
« Reply #22 on: July 25, 2009, 09:23:55 AM »
... and here's me thinking I was radical suggesting that hidden bidder ID's just appeared to be faked up data around real schiller data to make it look less schilly :) Are those the red or the blue pills bobby?  ;D

Where's Phil Cohen when we need him?  :hearnoevil:

Poddy

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Re: Pick a schill a day
« Reply #23 on: July 25, 2009, 09:46:23 AM »
350226109170

Have a look at l***a and 8****b
they are working together

350226109139

Have a look at l***a

Same seller, same bidder

I have been watching that seller for a while, countless reports have been sent over the last 3-4 months and guess what the result has been ??


ZERO

Poddy

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Re: Pick a schill a day
« Reply #24 on: July 25, 2009, 09:53:04 AM »
310153766153

I helped them get stuck with this one hehehehehe
Have a look at 3****s

RiffRaff

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Re: Pick a schill a day
« Reply #25 on: July 25, 2009, 10:11:56 AM »
350226109170

Have a look at l***a and 8****b
they are working together

350226109139

Have a look at l***a

Same seller, same bidder

I have been watching that seller for a while, countless reports have been sent over the last 3-4 months and guess what the result has been ??


ZERO

There is nothing in those bid histories to indicate shill bidding.

Result = ZERO

No surprise there.

Poddy

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Re: Pick a schill a day
« Reply #26 on: July 25, 2009, 10:34:25 AM »
Riff,

To coin one of your phrases

'Even blind Freddy' can see that there is shilling going on in just those 3 instances.

If you had have read the rest of what was in my post you may have gathered that those 3 events are not just isolated cases.

I have been watching that seller for a while, countless reports have been sent over the last 3-4 months


RiffRaff

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Re: Pick a schill a day
« Reply #27 on: July 25, 2009, 10:45:54 AM »
Poddy, you have posted a number of item numbers and a number of bidding ID's that show no indication of shill bidding. It is not possible to say with any degree of certainty that the seller involved is a shill bidder. It's an allegation that cannot be backed-up.

'Blind Freddy' has nothing to look at and I'm sure the seller would thank you for raising your concerns here.


*cupie*

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Re: Pick a schill a day
« Reply #28 on: July 25, 2009, 11:07:18 AM »
Where's Phil Cohen when we need him?

Hi Ernie...why not invite Phillip over here to join in the discussion?  I'm sure we'll get some ACCURATE debate on the subject then...and Bobby and He can compare notes......but be warned..the apologists don't like him much either....I remember when the usual suspects (not the p/seller crew) went after him mercilessly just for having an opinion on the subject.....there might have been something they didn't like about being compared to children in a sand box.....funny, I thought it was a most accurate description at the time, based  on the conduct being displayed by these so called 'grown ups'???...lmao....personally I found him to be a very intelligent bloke....at least he backs up his assertions with fact, not assumption and that's always a good start in any debate....don't ya think?

RiffRaff

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Re: Pick a schill a day
« Reply #29 on: July 25, 2009, 11:20:58 AM »
personally I found him to be a very intelligent bloke....at least he backs up his assertions with fact,

Phil is no wiser on this subject than any other eBayer that knows how to pick an obvious shill. Phil dismisses the reason for the hidden bidder system as some form of conspiracy theory. Nice bloke and well intentioned but none the wiser.

*cupie*

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Re: Pick a schill a day
« Reply #30 on: July 25, 2009, 11:30:14 AM »
Well, I'm sure he'll be able to debate that point himself...I just invited him over here to take part in the debate......I'm sure you'll be able to point out to him where his research is mistaken.....I tend to consider both sides of an argument before assuming inaccuracy, and given Phils' research on this specific subject over 12 months that I can recall, I'm sure he'll have some illuminating information to share.  

RiffRaff

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Re: Pick a schill a day
« Reply #31 on: July 25, 2009, 11:32:18 AM »
Been there, done that.

*cupie*

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Re: Pick a schill a day
« Reply #32 on: July 25, 2009, 11:53:35 AM »
Well, I'm sure you won't mind if we explore the subject further then?

RiffRaff

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Re: Pick a schill a day
« Reply #33 on: July 25, 2009, 12:01:44 PM »
If I have the time I may even join the conversation.

Poddy

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Re: Pick a schill a day
« Reply #34 on: July 25, 2009, 12:13:42 PM »
Has anyone noticed that the sky is actually a shade of pink, and the moon is made out of marshmellow.

The deep purple fish flying against the pink background is a wonderful sight dont you think?

primaryaim

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Re: Pick a schill a day
« Reply #35 on: July 25, 2009, 12:31:10 PM »
It matters not how many 'experts' discuss this, what matters is that it is becoming difficult for ordinary eBay members to bid and buy without the fear of fraud. Frankly, if there needs to be a ‘discussion by experts’ on how to pick it, does that not reflect on how unfair the system is to ordinary members who just log on occasionally to buy?

On a day to day basis some members are out there in real life bidding on items and not even realising they are being shilled, some realise they are being shilled but say "Oh well, I did not pay more than the bid price I was prepared to pay" but that is not the point, there should not be such an easy process which allows any seller to shill.

Once members realise shilling does happen, their ability to decide if they are being cheated is based on their experience. Most new members would not have a clue and my opinion is they should be more protected by eBay's methods of operation.

A member should NOT have to have a degree in 'shilling' in order to bid on any eBay item. Full stop. The hidden bidders system has seemingly made shilling more frequent and harder to pick unless you have plenty of time on your hands. We should not have to spend 10 minutes checking out various 'leads' in an auction’s bids before we can decide whether to place a bid.

If I joined today and found I had to spend that amount of time to ensure the seller was honest I would just log out and not bother again.

*CountessA*

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Re: Pick a schill a day
« Reply #36 on: July 25, 2009, 12:33:20 PM »
On the subject of proxy-bidding or shill-bidding (US term for the same thing - the first time I heard that term being used was on the old RT on AU eBay's forums), I think most people who have some experience bidding on certain proxy-bidding-prone items on eBay can see it happening, but because of the superficial way in which eBay investigates the complaints (I'm sorry, but "superficial" it is, in my judgement, being based primarily upon IP rather than upon algorithms that calculate bidding activity, bidding retraction, etc.), it rarely results in eBay admitting that a certain case is indeed shill-bidding.

That means eBay's figures on shill-bidding are low, because eBay's parameters for discerning shill-bidding are insufficient.

Of course there are some buyers on eBay who mistake the normal process of bidding in some auctions as being shill-bidding. They're misled by a) hidden bidders, b) maximum bids and c) snipe bids.

That still doesn't mean proxy-bidding/shill-bidding doesn't occur. You know, I can feel some sympathy for sellers who do resort to shill-bidding, especially if they are hobby sellers who are alarmed when they see an item worth much more than it's received in bidding sitting there, likely to sell at 99 cents - and also for business sellers whose profit margin is very narrow and who run their business on a model that has to include minimising their listing fees and making sure that items do not regularly sell for under a certain price.

Trying to drive up the price artificially, though, is a bad practice. I know most of the eBay members will say that the sellers concerned should begin the listing at a price at which they'd be happy to sell.

But with some items not gaining the bids unless they're begun at 99 cents, I can understand why sellers are frustrated.

However, bottom line - eBay's policies forbid the placing of proxy bids by sellers and/or members' accounts associated with the sellers' accounts, who are bidding merely in order to drive up the price. It's against eBay policy - but I honestly do not think eBay are actually discouraging the practice in any realistic way.
"No man is an Iland, intire of it selfe; every man is ...a part of the maine; ...any mans death diminishes me, because I am involved in Mankinde"

bobbybigbear

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Re: Pick a schill a day
« Reply #37 on: July 25, 2009, 12:47:22 PM »
Shill bidding detection based on IP addresses can never be detected because of the use of proxy servers. These alter your IP addie making it untraceable, and therefore leaving any investigator with suspicion and no proof.

The only way you will prove it is by seizing computers and checking hard drives.

IF you have a site where people go to report such fraud, and the site was a front for scammers, what better way to find out if people are on to what your up to.  By deleting all threads about it on ebay, outraged people want some where to go to warn people and show off their detective work, thus warning those involved, to retire certain ID's they are using for shilling, and switch to others.  If my scenario is right, then it's ther perfect set up. I have seen many such outraged people on RT over the years, and there will be the usual subjects turn up on the thread to suggest such a site.

Hmmm I wonder what temperature AlicespringsNT is today. ;D


primaryaim

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Re: Pick a schill a day
« Reply #38 on: July 25, 2009, 12:55:08 PM »
I don't feel any sympathy for sellers who feel the need to shill.  Obviously eBay is no longer for everyone who wants to sell online. If sellers now have to resort to dishonesty and fraud to sell their items, and this practice becomes approved by most because they feel sorry for them, what next?

bobbybigbear

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Re: Pick a schill a day
« Reply #39 on: July 25, 2009, 01:19:42 PM »
Ebay itself set the rules when their staff was guilty of doing it, and thus found by a Judge.

Others copied it on a personal basis, but my 3 1/2 year investigation into it tells me it's organised.

I just started by trying to work out why people were Trolls, and following those links led to me forming the opinions I have.

Had it just been Trolls trolling, I have their names and addresses, so I would have sorted it as soon as it got too fat into it.

The problem was being able to stay in a place, without being banned, long enough to work out why, and how they did it.

Roo

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Re: Pick a schill a day
« Reply #40 on: July 25, 2009, 04:50:34 PM »
Oh Bobby!  I told ya not to mention the Diner! :rolleyes:

And before ya get all huffy with me....I go and have a look there sometimes...but aren't connected with anyone there or even post there.

I did post once when there was a big scam going on Ebay...but that was just because I had no choice as Ebay were pulling posts so fast it would make your head spin.

I have been guilty of directing people there for help in the past....but now we have this venue, I know where I will mention next time....and there will be a next time...I feel it in my waters...lol ;D

*CountessA*

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Re: Pick a schill a day
« Reply #41 on: July 25, 2009, 04:53:44 PM »
I can't comment on the Diner - I've never posted there.

Roo... as with most things I suppose we expect the worst but hope for the best. There hasn't been much news about major frauds of late, but I'm worried that people might just swallow their own losses and not comment on them if eBay doesn't encourage that in the forums.

It could be that a major fraud is already in progress but it hasn't hit the news.
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Roo

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Re: Pick a schill a day
« Reply #42 on: July 25, 2009, 05:01:59 PM »
Countessa....I have no doubt there have been a few major frauds happening since the new, whiz bang, forums opened. :(

In the time it takes a page to load there these days....they can delete any thread that even smells like it's a bit off....and no one would be the wiser.

Time to get a new tin hat again I'm afraid..... :tinfoilhat:

*cupie*

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Re: Pick a schill a day
« Reply #43 on: July 25, 2009, 06:30:53 PM »
Hi Roo,  

If you remember rightly Roo....(say that three times fast)...the 6 major frauds of 2008, only got anyone's attention because victims of those scams were googling and finding the old RT....now, all they can do is go to the forums...get slapped for their effort, and give up no doubt...with any luck they'll find this site...It was much easier to uncover a scam in the days of the old RT....but it seems that these days...it's so much easier to cover it up than mitigate it I guess....typical though.  Just slap everyone who says anything remotely negative about ebay.

All the smaller frauds probably go unnoticed because it costs more to pursue it than to let it go....that study called Going, Going Gone....details all of this back in 2006....now it's even worse.......and more widespread...they talk about the 'smaller' frauds that occur frequently as well as the major ones......it's time Ebay verified sellers so they can be traced easily by police....they don't help our police force...they don't have to because they hide in another jurisdiction...

Still gutless....they could do the right thing, but they choose not to....it's the American way of doing business monopoly style....no care, no responsibility...

Roo

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Re: Pick a schill a day
« Reply #44 on: July 25, 2009, 07:19:09 PM »
Cupie..couldn't agree with you more...all your points are very valid and I put my hand up as one that would love to see proper verification on Ebay.

Bobby....I have had my share of wannabe auction bombers.

I sell on Oztion...not much these days as I work full time and I just don't have the time nor the energy to give it my all.

I did have a rather nice conversation with an Oztion employee one night at about 2 in the morning...lol

I gave him links to Ebay posts where some folk were 'discussing' my items for sale.  He has taken note of it all and has assured me that I only have to contact admin there if I feel a bidder is a bit suss and they will back me 100%.

Can't ask more than that... ;D

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Re: Pick a schill a day
« Reply #45 on: July 25, 2009, 07:51:27 PM »
I gave Oztion a miss some time ago...let's not go into it....depends on who you are over there as Bobby has worked out....it's almost a total clone of everything that's bad about Ebay, right down to the forum trolling.....

As for Ebay...it's a nightmare these days... 'Extreme Shopping'....bit like Russian Roulette online......who's got the gun....lol......the last 6 purchase I've made....four sellers decided to simply forget to register the parcels.....I use DD....so what gives them the right to place my purchase at double the risk I'm already taking, in trusting them to trade fairly or responsibly in the first place?  

No doubt if I used Paypal, they'd be demanding that I register?  See how laxidasical the whole thing is?......no standard required or aspired to.....just sloth and apathy...... then I won something the other night and the seller was de-registered by the next day...what's the bloody point....it's all too stressful these days....nothing friendly about it....If I'd paid for the item, I'd be out of pocket for that amount because Ebay won't even reply to someone who's trying to trace a NARU seller holding onto your money...just a joke...you'd think at least they'd lock the bloody checkout when they NARU someone....der !!

While Ebay sit on their hands and 'watch' like a Guinness add of times gone by (Don't worry it's only a nightmare)...then it will keep escalating out of control  Apathy, Fraud & thuggery flourish in the absence of standards, safeguards & deterrents of which Ebay have none........!!!

The absent landlord.....just pay the rent, the slumlord doesn't care if the roof is caving in on your head.

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Re: Pick a schill a day
« Reply #46 on: July 25, 2009, 08:02:04 PM »
You know... one of the major problems of the internet is also one of its major features of attraction for some: its anonymity.

Of course when a criminal charge is laid, that anonymity evaporates like dew upon a cobweb. But in the main, particularly because legislation has been slow in catching up with technology, there IS a lot of anonymity online. Some people use that anonymity to behave extremely badly.

It's not only with shill bidding that we see this, but with all sorts of behaviour hidden behind a mask.

I don't like seeing people harassed or intimidated; I don't like cyber bullying; I don't like people abusing others' trust; I don't like hacking or trying to upload malicious code or sending anonymous emails. Honesty is something I value, and the sad thing is that once I see reason to doubt someone's honesty, my trust is gone. I think most of us feel the same way.

If we find ourselves suspicious of proxy bidding on eBay, it taints the whole experience for us, doesn't it? I said earlier I felt some sympathy for sellers who are involved in proxy bidding, but that doesn't mean I condone their actions. I feel for their situation, but it's not an excuse.

Particularly it's not an excuse when the shill bidding is going on with BUSINESS sellers who are not on the breadline, so to speak. They're not after survival or trying not to let a precious heirloom go for peanuts. They're after increased profit in a practice that actually invalidates the whole auction process.

After all, if one is looking for a BIN price, that's one thing. But to enter into a bidding process online, one has to trust the mechanism that will prevent one's highest bid being reached unless other genuine bidders force the price up. If we can't trust that mechanism to do this, why bother bidding at all? Why not just look for a Buy It Now item?

Llama, Llama, we need your lucid explanation of the eBay auction process again!
"No man is an Iland, intire of it selfe; every man is ...a part of the maine; ...any mans death diminishes me, because I am involved in Mankinde"

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Re: Pick a schill a day
« Reply #47 on: July 25, 2009, 08:38:15 PM »
Hey guys....... :hijack: :drama: :hijack:

Hey Ubbrd.....I think it's time for.......:keelhaul:   :yess:

*cupie*

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Re: Pick a schill a day
« Reply #48 on: July 25, 2009, 08:53:45 PM »
:hijack: :hijack: :hijack: :hijack: :hijack: :hijack: :hijack: :hijack: :hijack: :hijack: :hijack: :hijack: :hijack: :hijack: :hijack: :hijack:

*CountessA*

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Re: Pick a schill a day
« Reply #49 on: July 25, 2009, 09:00:22 PM »
I've split this topic and moved the relevant threads to the fountain. That will help the threads to stay focused and give you room to explore that topic.
"No man is an Iland, intire of it selfe; every man is ...a part of the maine; ...any mans death diminishes me, because I am involved in Mankinde"