Author Topic: re News Article "eBay buyers fleeced by teenage internet girl" (Read 87519 times)

*Yibida* · « **Reply #50 on:** June 27, 2009, 04:15:36 PM »

Quote from: *Cupie* on June 27, 2009, 04:10:21 PM

Easy solution...get rid of your carpets...I have tiles downstairs and floorboards upstairs...easy.

That would eliminate carpet burns... [ cigarette burns that is... what were you thinking ?...

imperfect · « **Reply #51 on:** June 27, 2009, 04:17:18 PM »

NO WAY!

*Yibida* · « **Reply #52 on:** June 27, 2009, 04:20:40 PM »

Hi ya IMP.. hows mi little avatar vixen....

imperfect · « **Reply #53 on:** June 27, 2009, 04:21:30 PM »

Yibb, my back aches for you, I did that for a crust while studying, I slept well though

*CountessA* · « **Reply #54 on:** June 27, 2009, 04:22:35 PM »

I recommend that buyers take steps to protect themselves on eBay and in other online purchases... but that's because it saves so much angst if things go wrong. Assume eBay is not going to protect you. Assume you have to rely on your credit card provider. Assume that your seller MAY be a scamming teen. Don't trust eBay to have checked or verified the seller.

I know this is exaggerating the case. However, unless buyers do assume these things, they may end up with a nasty surprise.

It would be so nice to have trust in eBay's verification... but I honestly can't. That's why I perform risk assessment (at a subconscious level) when I buy on eBay.

I do not think it's appropriate for eBay to wash their hands of the verification issue and to try to offload the responsibility for the identify of the seller onto the buyer. And of course you know I believe that eBay should be offering protection for purchases paid for by bank transfer. Unfortunately they don't.

It's probably #1 on my wishlist for eBay. "Please, eBay, provide protection regardless of payment method. Don't continue to offer protection only for purchases made by PayPal."

Actually, I wish I knew what the buyer in that article meant when she said she'd followed eBay's recommendations... Does anyone know?

imperfect · « **Reply #55 on:** June 27, 2009, 04:23:06 PM »

Quote from: Yibida---<;)))< on June 27, 2009, 04:20:40 PM

Hi ya IMP.. hows mi little avatar vixen....

hey, don't dribble on my leather Yibby, it'll stain!

*Yibida* · « **Reply #56 on:** June 27, 2009, 04:27:05 PM »

Quote from: Imp on June 27, 2009, 04:23:06 PM

Quote from: Yibida---<;)))< on June 27, 2009, 04:20:40 PM

Hi ya IMP.. hows mi little avatar vixen....

hey, don't dribble on my leather Yibby, it'll stain!

No problem IMP...I got the carpet machine till 6pm....I'll do ya with your leathers on if you like..

*Yibida* · « **Reply #57 on:** June 27, 2009, 04:28:11 PM »

My apologies for redirecting the thread...please continue...

*CountessA* · « **Reply #58 on:** June 27, 2009, 04:31:44 PM »

Ah, Riff, I did something similar with my purchase of a sound system for one of the things I do!

It was an Australian business with a shop - they're about 1 and a half hours from me, so I decided to get them to courier the purchase. (Great people - I had several conversations with the sound specialists there to be sure I decided on the best system.) Sent a cheque for the full amount. The sound system arrived a week later by courier.

Actually, the courier didn't include something - it consisted of three boxes. Two of the boxes were delivered. One was not there. This was the courier's fault, not the shop's, but of course the shop took responsibility. They were very good about chasing up the naughty courier (who'd simply been slack rather than fraudulent). Another week, and I had the whole thing.

There was another problem - one of the wireless mics crackled when I tested it. I returned it, and the faulty mic was replaced the next day.

The shop didn't use the method of payment as a get-out. In spite of the comedy of errors, I consider that shop has excellent customer service, resolving any problems quickly.

But that shop was a fully functioning b&m business. It has a reputation to uphold. It knew it needed to comply with the TPA.

There are other circumstances where paying by bank deposit is not recommended. It depends on assessing the seller when it comes down to it, I think.

That's what I want - the CHOICE to make my payments as I see fit, by the method I deem appropriate.

cueperkins · « **Reply #59 on:** June 27, 2009, 04:34:55 PM »

Quote from: RiffRaff on June 27, 2009, 04:14:18 PM

.............some people ya just can't reach..........

This is all much simpler than it's being portrayed Cupie. Just ask yourself if you would deposit over $2000 into a strangers bank account.

I know what my answer would be....................

Riff, ......unless you can come up with opposing evidence or factual argument debunking my concerns...you need not feel so compelled to 'Reach Me'....I don't want to be 'reached' with anything other than objective factual information ...then, I may change my views.

I don't pay anyone that amount for anything sight unseen over the net, so no risk of that happening. Anyone who does would need their head read. Many people are making modest purchases, and getting ripped off, not big time...small time.....but what can they do? Police can't investigate every single consumer rip off, and what other commercial entity has an entire Police Online Fraud reporting initiative built around it but Ebay? lmao....which reminds me..they will have released their statistics for 2008...that should be very interesting.

*CountessA* · « **Reply #60 on:** June 27, 2009, 04:39:20 PM »

One of the most interesting developments in relation to anti online fraud measures is definitely the Queensland police online initiative (which is of course national, not just for Queensland buyers). The information gathered so far might well be primarily statistical in use.

If that's true, I think we can expect a bigger police initiative dedicated to coping with online fraud.

imperfect · « **Reply #61 on:** June 27, 2009, 04:43:40 PM »

Creep! lol!

RiffRaff · « **Reply #62 on:** June 27, 2009, 04:46:48 PM »

Cupie, that 'can't be reached' remark wasn't directed solely at you. It describes anybody who ignores the advice given to them in their best interests.

When I see a good arguement for paying strangers large sums of money via bank deposit or via any other means that provides no protection, I may change my view too.

imperfect · « **Reply #63 on:** June 27, 2009, 04:48:04 PM »

I guess if your going to worry about getting ripped off by every seller on eBay before you have even bought off them, then you really shouldn't even be shopping on-line..

I know one person who is terrified of being ripped off, even in RL, this person will not ever go near eBay, Oztion or any other on line store..this person also hardly ever leave the house and takes months to make a purchase of one T shirt...

What a way to live...

cueperkins · « **Reply #64 on:** June 27, 2009, 04:49:00 PM »

In their first year, half of QLD fraud was traced back to 23 individuals who had continually opened new accounts on Ebay and kept right on defrauding....by those stats, one might assume that Ebay is a fraud recidivists dream and yet still... ID verification is ignored as the best way to deter and prevent fraud in the first place, and stop recidivist fraud altogether.

By the way the online fraud initiative was developed in 2006, following the results of that precedent fraud study on Ebay, posted on page 1. Fraud being illegal and all that.

*CountessA* · « **Reply #65 on:** June 27, 2009, 05:06:53 PM »

Hi, Imp.

Do you mean that "teenage internet girl" is a creep? Could well be... What sort of girl would deliberately defraud people like that? Very weird behaviour. At least she was caught and had to face criminal charges.

I just wanted to comment on what you said about "I guess if your going to worry about getting ripped off by every seller on eBay before you have even bought off them, then you really shouldn't even be shopping on-line." - I thought it was an interesting comment, because isn't the major reason why buyers use PayPal because of the issue of worrying about getting ripped off by every seller on eBay? Or to put it another way, making sure they have protection for the transaction?

If customers don't worry about it - if they assume every seller is legitimate and conducts their business with reliability and integrity - then the whole issue of online fraud becomes irrelevant for them. That would include not checking the seller's feedback, being happy to send the cash in an envelope, etc.

Isn't there a sensible place between paranoia and recklessness? I think that's where I function (I hope so, anyway). Sadly we DO have to exercise care... not because every seller is out to rob buyers, or every buyer is out to defraud sellers, but because SOME sellers are out to rob buyers and SOME buyers are out to defraud sellers. There are some dishonest people in the world; some do it professionally and consistently and repeatedly; some do it because they don't feel like remedying a problem; some do it because they're able to get away with it once in a while and their ideals are "looser" than some people's; and so on.

Have you checked the Falcon online fraud detection system that's in place now - real-time fraud detection when using your card?

imperfect · « **Reply #66 on:** June 27, 2009, 05:15:00 PM »

that is what I am trying to say also, there is a middle ground, eBay for me has been safe, I have had very little issues in the 7 yrs. I guess I wouldn't like to see eBay advertised as an evil place full of scammers to the newbie, if that makes sense?

There are scammers everywhere, I have been had in RL..

I guess this is why you need to be 18 to join eBay, then one would hope that it is an adult decision to buy??

imperfect · « **Reply #67 on:** June 27, 2009, 05:18:33 PM »

To add to that, a service or business can only put in place rules, the scammer will find ways to avoid or manipulate these rules, irrespective of what safe guards are in place..

A crook is a crook...even the police get scammed..

*r3830* · « **Reply #68 on:** June 27, 2009, 05:22:11 PM »

I see a lot of adds that bear the words...... 'If you don't intend to pay - don't bid'. I wonder how many sellers have been told the the kids accidentally hit the but it now button, the excuse being used by a buyer who has changed their mind?

*CountessA* · « **Reply #69 on:** June 27, 2009, 05:28:33 PM »

Yes, it's funny to think of, isn't it? That police (who should be very, very savvy) are still vulnerable to being scammed?

I suppose that's because of the commonality of human nature. We all have our vulnerabilities. I think conmen have it emblazoned on their foreheads: "everyone is capable of being scammed".

I hear what you're saying... but I don't believe that the assumption that criminals will break the rules justifies jettisoning the rules.

I do believe in ensuring the rules are as broad as possible, to limit the possibility of "fooling" the parameters designed to weed out fraudsters and scammers. I think it is a never-ending task, because as you say, people who scam will keep finding new ways to do so. But rather than concluding that this means we should give up on developing fraud/scam prevention, I see this as meaning that fraud/scam prevention needs continually to evolve in reaction.

It's like anti-virus software. If you look back at the software developed six, seven years ago and install it on your computer, or even if you look at the latest software but with the virus definitions of a year ago, you can't rely on that for your computer protection. (I hope you constantly update your virus definitions!) People who work for software companies developing anti-virus software are aware that their job will never end. They've got to be on the ball. New viruses to attack computers will ALWAYS be developed. It's a sad and horrible reality. And the fight against them will ALWAYS have to look at continually evolving ways of stopping them.

*CountessA* · « **Reply #70 on:** June 27, 2009, 05:29:36 PM »

r3830, apparently LOTS of sellers have heard that. In fact, don't we have a thread here about all of the inventive excuses people use when trying to get out of paying?

cueperkins · « **Reply #71 on:** June 27, 2009, 05:36:07 PM »

Quote from: Imp on June 27, 2009, 05:15:00 PM

There are scammers everywhere, I have been had in RL..

I guess this is why you need to be 18 to join eBay, then one would hope that it is an adult decision to buy??

Firstly the girl wasn't 18 and managed to elude all of Ebay/Paypal's so called safeguards....and secondly.....the fact that there are scammers everywhere is no excuse to do absolutely nothing to prevent it. JMO Mind you this kids certainly making an early start using all resources at her disposal..lol

I'll find a link to the issues paper on online fraud projections for the next decade...illuminating to say the least...but once again...very long winded....so you have to be determined to get through it all.

Banks are spending millions on fraud prevention why? because scammers are getting more sophisticated.....if they did nothing.....we'd all be toast. Thank gord for the EFT Code that protects account holders against fraud and makes it the banks problem eh? Meanwhile, those same sophisticated fraudsters probably find Ebay/Paypal a veritable pushover by comparison, and unlike bank customers...there's no EFT to protect you...no fraud prevention being entered into...anyway..once again...JMO.

*CountessA* · « **Reply #72 on:** June 27, 2009, 05:38:15 PM »

Cupie, could you post that link here when you find it? I'd be interested in reading it, even though you are warning us it's long-winded.

(Candid admission: I know my posts can be rather... ahem... long, but that doesn't make it any easier when I read through long-winded papers!)

cueperkins · « **Reply #73 on:** June 27, 2009, 05:42:49 PM »

Countess, this one is a doozy goes on forever in PDF format... I have it somewhere...but finding it might take me a few hours of determination......it goes into great detail...I don't have time tonight...have been working early starts for a week...and I mean sparrow fart early...lol. So give me a raincheck and I'll get back to you when the braincells and patience for searching are renewed.

tellomon · « **Reply #74 on:** June 27, 2009, 06:00:30 PM »

I recently killed a rat bastard for defrauding me for over $4000.00.

Total sociopath.

My world is a better place now.

What are ya gonna do, rat me out? The evidence is gone, and local (so-called) Law Enforcemenbt don't care about the goings-on in Montello, Nevada.

I spoke to the State Atty General, & he verified it: Monetllo is expendable. So there is NO LAW here.

Just me and my crew & our guns.

No jive.

You can ask any Elko County Pig........All they do is pop locals on Traffic Stops, but they won't deal with Theft & other hardcore crimes.

(If this is "Law Enforcement", I sure don't wanna see Corruption.....

)

FTW x10!

tellomon · « **Reply #75 on:** June 27, 2009, 06:21:45 PM »

There's 3 ways to face a day in Montello from my POV:

1) Stay home for 26 hours.

2) Drive to the Post Office & back before 2 PM, return & stay home for 19+ hours.

C) Come out with both barrels-a-blazing, but dont hit the UPS guy......he has my eBay packages.....

Nobody cares what I do, as long as they aren't involved, or: they like to hear "Tales of The Wild West"....

(Small town debris....)

cueperkins · « **Reply #76 on:** June 27, 2009, 06:27:13 PM »

Tello, Australia is not Nevada, the population is nowhere near as large as the US, although we have the same land mass...nevertheless policing a much smaller population isn't as mediocre or forlorn... perhaps the only resemblance would be the movie Wolf Creek...that should definitely appeal to you...in the desert, nobody hears you scream....lol recommend you rent it on DVD.....very fictional...I mean factual and relevant...hehehehe..as if......In fact..... Tarantino raved about it....but many in the Aussie public thought it was rubbish...Aussies are a bit like that though....if it doesn't sound fair dinkum it's probably bullshit !!

Hey Tello, have you ever considered back packing in the red centre? Just kidding...carry on.

imperfect · « **Reply #77 on:** June 27, 2009, 06:32:23 PM »

Firstly the girl wasn't 18 and managed to elude all of Ebay/Paypal's so called safeguards....and secondly.....the fact that there are scammers everywhere is no excuse to do absolutely nothing to prevent it.

Like I said, sacmmers are everywhere, just like this child, she knew she was not permitted to join, yet she did...People are not allowed to park in a No Standing area but they do..they will get caught and fines will be placed...like this girl will suffer.

I did not say to do nothing.

I agree Countess, the rules need to be made hole proof, and continually updated with every new scam that arrives...vigilance is the key, caution, not paranoia. Don't you agree?

We all enjoy eBay, we all use eBay, I just dont understand why such bashing??? just wondering.

tellomon · « **Reply #78 on:** June 27, 2009, 06:33:43 PM »

Wolf Creek is chump compared to "Wrong Turn" 1 & 2, and "The Hills Have Eyes", "The Ruins", "Cabin Fever", "The Devil's Rejects" and "Who Framed Roger Rabbit".

I got those.....& more.

Nice try: carry on...fair dinkum I suppose.

(Oz aint Nevada...who wouldda thot of that except an Ozzie? Mute point. No score on that one. Give it another go, Mate!)

imperfect · « **Reply #79 on:** June 27, 2009, 06:40:21 PM »

Quote from: tellomon on June 27, 2009, 06:33:43 PM

Wolf Creek is chump compared to "Wrong Turn" 1 & 2, and "The Hills Have Eyes", "The Ruins", "Cabin Fever" and "Who Framed Roger Rabbit".

I got those.....& more.

Nice try: carry on...fair dinkum I suppose.

LOL!!!!

tellomon · « **Reply #80 on:** June 27, 2009, 06:42:11 PM »

Quote from: Imp on June 27, 2009, 06:40:21 PM

Quote from: tellomon on June 27, 2009, 06:33:43 PM
Wolf Creek is chump compared to "Wrong Turn" 1 & 2, and "The Hills Have Eyes", "The Ruins", "Cabin Fever" and "Who Framed Roger Rabbit".

I got those.....& more.

Nice try: carry on...fair dinkum I suppose.

LOL!!!!

WMD!
(words of mass description)

cueperkins · « **Reply #81 on:** June 27, 2009, 06:43:54 PM »

LOL...there's nothing paranoid about being informed and cautious with a payment system that spells it out in plain english....They take no responsibility in the event of all and any imaginable risk...and their buyer protection is discretionary...the only redress is BFSO...hopefully, this site will assist in informing consumers about that recourse....Post that info on EBay now, and you'll be slapped and sanctioned in seconds......

Ironically, in the early days.....I took Paypal's UA to a legal colleague and asked on the basis of the terms and conditions and endless..let me say again...endless waivers........ if he would join....after he finished laughing, he asked me if I was serious.....no word of a lie....lol....his question quite rightly was...would you indemnify any other entity and then give them access to your bank accounts?.....the answer to that question is....NO !...the conclusion therefore is obvious when it comes to protecting oneself from much bigger and more serious fraud.......looking over your shoulder is not paranoid, it's about being aware of your limitations and your liabilities...such is life.

Ignorance will be no excuse if Paypal account holders are seriously defrauded via those links to CC's and bank accounts..lol...I truly hope that doesn't happen, but basically, with the sophistication of fraud these days and no obligation under EFT for Paypal to do a thing.....the outcome is almost inevitable.

Thankfully in all their wisdom Bowen's office has ensured that Unfair consumer contract laws are uniform and nation wide, so arguing Ebay or Paypal's unconscionable user agreement won't be quite so hard in the future.

tellomon · « **Reply #82 on:** June 27, 2009, 06:46:32 PM »

Jeez...there's a serious discussion going on here & I have no cause to interfer. Sorry if I did. Not sorry if I didn't.

eBay is BIG bizniss. Members are a BIGGGER deal than that.

I'm off this thread.

Fair Dinkum?

cueperkins · « **Reply #83 on:** June 27, 2009, 06:49:38 PM »

Hooroo then !!

tellomon · « **Reply #84 on:** June 27, 2009, 06:50:34 PM »

Seriously..I'm outta here.

Better times can be had on my crappy little threads.

Or not.

.......

imperfect · « **Reply #85 on:** June 27, 2009, 06:53:14 PM »

Paypal can't access bank accounts.

I have never had a issue with anything you are stating, for me it is the safest option right now. You must of had something terrible happen?

tellomon · « **Reply #86 on:** June 27, 2009, 06:53:55 PM »

hooroo goodbye
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1.    hooroo    82 up, 25 down love it hate it

An aussie way of saying "goodbye"
Hooroo stinky poo.
by Anf Mar 12, 2004 share this
2.    hooroo    24 thumbs up love it hate it

Hooroo is a distinctively Australian way of saying “goodbye”.

The "truly wondrous fantasmagorically splendiferously magickal word hooroo" (credited to someone's Uncle Wally) echoes two likely sources.

It's a bit of a joyous exclamation, as in "Hooroo! hooroo!

hooray!" (Darby O'Gill), and it's also something of an owl's hoot, as in "the proper hooroo, hooroo" (The Sword in the Stone).

?
"For my part, I do believe I should go quite insane, were I to live in {a} Land where people wandered around screaming, 'HOOROO' at one- another". said Werewolfy"

--
Wacky Ozzies. What can Westerners expect from a former Prison Continent?

---->Choccy!<----

imperfect · « **Reply #87 on:** June 27, 2009, 06:59:18 PM »

Tello...NOT all Aussies talk like this.

Roo · « **Reply #88 on:** June 27, 2009, 07:01:28 PM »

Hey Tello, have you ever considered back packing in the red centre?

Personal thoughts..I think Tello would revel in that option. His style...demenour..and just all round popularity would see him welcomed into any outback community in this country.

He may have to shout the bar in some locations to be really accepted...but that's no biggy...

Back to topic though....and I have been thinking about this little girl that got away with defrauding the Ebay comunity.

I am an advocate for Ebay starting up their own user verification..and this case seems to back me up.

The banks verify the user...no doubt about that...BUT! When Paypal or Ebay use the banking system to piggy back on their system..they neglect to verify AGE!

Kids these days can open a whole plethora of accounts with the banks...and they may have their age recorded with those banks.

But Paypal or Ebay don't actually verify those details.

To be honest...they don't actually verify anything!...except that the person has a bank account with that bank.

I'm savvy enough to even open a bank account in my cat's name....and then proceed to open an Ebay account and start selling under my cat's name.

Who will stop me? Not Ebay for sure...

tellomon · « **Reply #89 on:** June 27, 2009, 07:02:40 PM »

Tello...NOT all Aussies talk like this.

Not all Aussies like me, either.

So special. How do I do this? Why do you allow it?

Big "Hmmmm" on that one, me thinks...

RiffRaff · « **Reply #90 on:** June 27, 2009, 07:08:11 PM »

G'day Roo. Does your cat have 100 points of ID ?

tellomon · « **Reply #91 on:** June 27, 2009, 07:09:23 PM »

Hey Tello, have you ever considered back packing in the red centre?

Don't be going all 'secret code' on me now.

Speak Canuck or forsake me on all that sideline chatter.... LOL!

Didn't I say I am outta here? Stop tricking me already!!!

*CountessA* · « **Reply #92 on:** June 27, 2009, 07:19:09 PM »

Who doesn't like you, Tello? Haven't you got an obsessed fanclub thing going on here? They're all slavering for you!

If you ever drop in to Australia, I'll even buy you a wicked little drink with an umbrella in it.

Quote

Tello...NOT all Aussies talk like this.

- Well, yes, true; there are many different standards and types of usage in Australia. For that matter, I don't know any other Australian who speaks as I do. It's one of the exciting wonders of Australian English. I had a lot of fun creating the "Strine" version of the disgruntled seller's Terms of Sale - English very different to that which I usually use. But it's so vivid and expressive!

Quote

I agree Countess, the rules need to be made hole proof, and continually updated with every new scam that arrives...vigilance is the key, caution, not paranoia. Don't you agree?

Absolutely true, Imp. Unfortunately I have dealt with people who are truly paranoid - one individual (whose identity I will protect for reasons of privacy) who was convinced she was followed everywhere, and that strangers entered her apartment while she was gone, just to move things around... She left notes all over the toilet saying, "Leave me alone!" "Go away!" and so on. But in terms of vigilance and caution, we all shift our levels of acceptable risk by different levers, and who is to say whose level is the wiser?

By the way, I love the term "hole proof" in that context. Very evocative.

Roo, I will be on the lookout for a seller called "Roos_Cat". *keeps eyes peeled*

And I reiterate - what is the problem with verifying sellers? Why not verify them? It would certainly help to prevent scams.

tellomon · « **Reply #93 on:** June 27, 2009, 07:23:05 PM »

OK, ya called me onnit!

America sucks!

I've been suffering it for 51 years now.

No diss on OZ; my bad; No disrespect, but my info can't be all that wrong.

Sorry. I hate being partially Human.

If I visit Oz, can I crash on yer sofa?

It'll cost me extra if I bring my own....

tellomon · « **Reply #94 on:** June 27, 2009, 07:32:10 PM »

Who doesn't like you, Tello? Haven't you got an obsessed fanclub thing going on here? They're all slavering for you!

Didn't that already happen when The Beatles invaded America?

If you ever drop in to Australia, I'll even buy you a wicked little drink with an umbrella in it.

I'll pay extra if I can substitute the umbrella for a Swamp Cooler!

RiffRaff · « **Reply #95 on:** June 27, 2009, 07:33:42 PM »

Cupie, why do you choose insult over conversation?

Roo · « **Reply #96 on:** June 27, 2009, 07:38:49 PM »

Tello...if you ever get down to our fair Island..you are assured of least one comfy couch to crash on.

I'm working on cleaning out the back room and moving a bed into there though..so your lodgings would be quite comfy...

I have a Barbie on the verandah...so would expect you to at least do a bit of cooking some nights....only fair I think...lol

tellomon · « **Reply #97 on:** June 27, 2009, 07:41:55 PM »

Cupie and Roo: I can charter a seafaring vessal. EM me on yer precise location.

I'll be arriving as unregistered cargo, rather than a passenger.

If yer serious, I'm curious. And I have housekeeping skills!!!

cueperkins · « **Reply #98 on:** June 27, 2009, 07:44:42 PM »

Tello...just do the Captain Cook and you should end up on the East Coast of Oz....Roo is south of the border.......I think !!!...hehehehe We're smack dab in the middle.

tellomon · « **Reply #99 on:** June 27, 2009, 07:46:16 PM »

Wow..THAT'S perfectly vague.

News:

Author Topic: re News Article "eBay buyers fleeced by teenage internet girl" (Read 87519 times)

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