It all started with a post from a user named tripillian-au…(Please bear in mind I've only saved selections of this, because I couldn't help myself...)Tripillian-au: I would like to put a case for eBay implementing a 5 minute delay to the close of an Auction since the last bid.
Sold.com.au use to have this feature before eBay bought it out
Implementing this change or at least making it a user selectable option would greatly improve the outcome of the auction for sellers and bidders. It would mean that the successful bidder is not the one with the fastest and bast internet connection.
If a bid is place one minute before the close of the auction then the close time is extended by an additional 5 minutes... If a new bid is placed in that time then a further five minutes since the last bid is made before the Auction ends.
This means that the seller gets the best price and the buyer has the time to revise and place their bids
Again if this can not be a standard feature then at least make it a seller option when listing the auction..
Can we have a poll on this issue?
Maybe we need to start up a petition or something because eBay does not seam to listen to its customers..
(Lots and lots of other posts came in between the opening post and my response. Bear with me. A little further on, we start to go a little crazy.)Countessalmirena: You’re approaching this from the perspective of a live auction, but that is not what an online auction is.
Forget about the analogies between a live auction and eBay - and look at it in different terms. When you first come across an item you like, which is listed in auction format, don’t think “I’ll make a bid of [low amount] and see if I can get it for thatâ€. For an online auction, you need to think about it in terms of “Right... what’s the maximum I’m prepared to bid on this item? What is the highest bid I would place? I’ll make that bid.â€
You place your highest bid, either by making the bid early (and of course the bid ACTUALLY made by eBay for you is not your maximum, but rather just enough to beat the second highest bidder) or by placing a snipe bid using an external sniping service.
Both strategies have their advantage. If you place your maximum bid through eBay, then you’ve indicated to the seller that you’re interested, and he is much less likely to pull the auction under the impression that there might be no bids.
The drawback is that you’ve got your maximum bid on automatic. If the seller shill-bids or “nibble-bidsâ€, he can expose your maximum bid in all its naked glory by bidding in increments until he outbids you... and then can retract his bid with some feeble excuse, having bid you up to your maximum. Or it may be a competing bidder who wants to know what your maximum bid is so that he can outbid you at the last moment with a snipe.
The advantage of a snipe bid using a third-party service is that your interest is not exposed early on, and your bid will only be placed in the last few seconds of the auction, which decreases the possibility of shill-bidding.
In both of these types of bidding, even though you have specified a maximum, that maximum will not be placed unless absolutely necessary. That is, either eBay or your snipe service will only place the maximum needed to outbid the second highest bidder, as long as your maximum is higher than the maximum of the second highest bidder.
If you are prepared, for instance, to pay $150 but absolutely not more than that on an item, you would specify that as your maximum. Let’s say you place it through eBay. eBay will then place a bid for you based on the fact that the second highest bid is, let’s say, $25.97. Your visible bid will be just enough to outbid $25.97. (Let’s say it shows as $26.97.)
Let’s say in addition that during the last 10 minutes of the auction, people start placing bids, thinking they’re going to get a bargain. Bidder A (let’s call him Adam) places a bid for $30, thinking that will outbid you. But lo and behold, it doesn’t. He is automatically told that he has been outbid, and the new bid (still yours) shows as $31 or something. Adam gets down to business and bids again. This time he bids $45, hoping that will outbid you. AGAIN he’s outbid, and your bid automatically goes up to $46. Adam gets a bit annoyed and gets up to have a glass of beer, wondering whether to keep bidding. While he’s gone from the monitor, Bidder B (let’s call him Brian) comes into the bidding and places a bid of $68.72. But Brian, too, is unsuccessful, because your maximum still outdoes his bid. Your bid automatically goes up to $69.72.
Adam comes back - there are now 2 minutes to go with the auction. “Zounds!†he thinks. “The bidding’s increased again!†He tries one last time and bids $95.00. But no - he’s still unlucky. Your maximum is still good and your bid is automatically increased to $96.00.
Bill bids again with $103.74. Still no luck; your bid is now increased to $104.74. Bill gives up in disgust, and Adam thinks there’s been something fishy going on because he doesn’t understand the concept of a maximum bid. He thinks you have been sitting there jumping in with bid increases every single time he’s bid. No wonder poor Adam is confused...
Less than 1 minute to go... no further bids until the last 10 seconds... and all of a sudden there’s a bid for $123.69. Your bid is automatically increased to $124.69 and then it’s all over. The last-minute bid of $123.69 was from Bidder C (let’s call him Craig). Craig played it smart - he placed his bid with a sniping service and never revealed his interest until the last moment. But alas for Craig - YOUR early maximum bid still outbid his maximum snipe amount (his maximum was $123.69), and so, irrespective of all the people who bid after you (Adam, Brian and Craig), you still won!
Not only that, but you won the item for less than the maximum you were prepared to pay. You had decided $150 was your ceiling - you ended up only having to pay $124.69.
In this world of online bidding, extending the time by 5 minutes is not just unnecessary, but self-defeating. If I am bidding on an item, I plan my strategy based on the finishing time of the item, because if I don’t win, I might be bidding on a similar item from a different seller. Extending the time on the first item makes it impossible for the seller to “move on†to the next item. Simply put, it’s a bad idea.
Smeeagain: excellent explaination countess... but why did Brian change his name to Bill halfway through auction??? i didnt get that bit..
Countessalmirena: Oops. *quickly thinks up an excuse* You see, Brian Bill Blatherthwaite is most often known as Brian, but very occasionally prefers to be called Bill.
Smeeagain: right, now i get it.. cheers
but then all is not lost for craig he gets a message from seller saying SECOND CHANCE OFFER ... countess can you take up the story from here cause i dont know what comes next i cant think Brian and Bll are fighting in background calling Adam a sniper but not realising it wasnt adam but that cagey bidder number 1 again
Countessalmirena: All right - Brian and Bill are having an identity crisis. Bill’s a secret cross-dresser (so embarrassing for Brian, who is a chartered accountant), and he’s been buying up huge amounts of red frillies on eBay. Brian receives the packages and is enraged by what his inner Bill is doing, so he burns the lacy lingerie. Bill suffers a complete mental breakdown and has to go to Adam (who is a psychiatrist) to rebuild his shattered psyche, little knowing that Adam is the one who was competing with him on that listing on eBay...
... but one day, while Adam rushes off to the loo (he’s suffering from irritable bowel syndrome), Bill/Brian gets up from the couch and sneaks a peak at Adam’s computer. Lo and behold, Bill/Brian realises that while he’s been verbalising his inner fears and concerns, Adam has simply been browsing on eBay. And - yes - there’s the bidder history, and Bill/Brian realises that ADAM is the sniper!
When Adam returns from the loo, he is astounded to find Bill/Brian waiting for him with a paperweight in his hand, and Adam quite simply hasn’t a chance...
The papers scream a headline: “Maddened eBay patient snipes psychiatrist with paperweightâ€.
That’s the end of Adam. It’s also the end of Bill. The alternate personality disappears and is never seen again.
Craig in the meantime has received a second chance offer because the winning bidder suddenly suffered an attack of mydogbidonyouritemitis. Being the suspicious sort, Craig (an IT specialist) tracks down the winning bidder and finds out he hasn’t even got a dog. A quick search through the winning bidder’s history and it becomes apparent he regularly wins bids and then refuses to pay. He has an entire living room papered with printouts from eBay saying, “Your non-paying bidder strike has been removed...â€
It all ends in tears.
Smeeagain: right then , thats completly changed my mind on the whole issue , if the auction would have gone on for another 5 mins Adam would still be alive Bill would be happily dancing around the room in a pair of red frillies (possibly with a merkin on his head) Brian wouldnt be in jail and Craig the I.T. specialist might have got a job on the EB team heaven knows they need one.
The winning bidder wouldnt have been bit by his dog The sniper wouldnt have been schilled and we wouldnt be in this mess its all getting too much countess I need a pshych but he is dead now and my nice new paper weighys covered in blood
Countessalmirena: If the auction had gone on for an extra five minutes, it would have seen bidder D (she was named Destituta by a very silly mother) in Chile placing a bid, because she woke up with indigestion in the middle of the night and decided to browse on eBay.
Destituta’s highest bid would have been $132.22, and she would have been outraged by not winning the item. She’s that type of person. She is the secret mistress of a high-ranking Chilean official whose wife (Felicita) is the daughter of a war criminal. Destituta is also pregnant with the Chilean official’s child, and if you put together the factors of her having indigestion, being pregnant and having been outbid, then it’s clear Destituta is a bomb waiting to explode.
And she does. She breaks into the Chilean official’s apartment and strangles Felicita to death with a pair of red frilly knickers (yes, Felicita was one of the sellers from whom Bill had been buying his undergarments). Felicita’s father, finding his daughter’s pitiful corpse, swears revenge on Destituta and has her murdered. Not content with that, he also has her family murdered, and the residents of the town in which she grew up. One of the town residents (Miguel) escapes - barely - and goes on to become the country’s main military adviser. Out of a sense of futile hatred, Miguel determines to try to destroy the whole world and organises World War III with nuclear weapons for every country with a grudge. As deadly missiles hurl through the air, a thought goes through your mind...
“Was all of this simply because of those extra five minutes?â€
Brumby: “extending the time by a few minutes does not prevent that. In fact it guarantees itâ€Sorry - it’s already guaranteed, IF you place your max bid before the scheduled end time. Can it be any clearer?
“Statement: WHEN you can cope with snipe bids beating you, THEN you will understand the bidding process. Until then, you are trying to put your interpretation on the rules - and it is wrong.
Rssponse: WRONG.†Q.E.D.
“I am suggesting that the rules refect reallife†- No, you are suggesting that eBay auctions should be run like live, hammer fall auctions. Newsflash: There is more than one way to sell via bidding. You want to do it that way, then don’t use eBay. EBay use another method which was old hat a hundred years ago. THIS is real life. “There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, Than are dreamt of in your philosophy.†- gotta love Shakespeare!
“and provide a fair option to all.†- The same rules apply to all bidders, so how is it anything BUT fair?
“the snipp bidder is not about making the highest biider†???
“it is about maximising their chances by manuipulating the system to theor advantage.†- There is no manipulation, just utilisation. Other than the use of the incorrect word, that statement is correct.... and do you mean to try and tell me that in a competitive situation YOU would not make best use of your knowledge?
“A fice minute delay provides an equalchance for all.†- NO IT WON’T as that already exists. What it WILL do is give the scaredy-cat or cheapskate a chance to have another go.
“It is fairer†- Not so. It is neither more nor less fair.
“and repressnt the best interst of both seller and bidder.†- Talk about an each-way bet... - Best interest for the buyer is lowest amount. Best interest for the seller is highest amount. Which one? (Answer is buyer - but I’ll let you work out why)
“Again why not allow this an an option for the seller to decide whow they want to sell their items.†- You will find that if you change the rules, some of the players will leave the game. Snipers have been the saviour of many auctions. Without their significant bids in the last moments, many sellers would have sold their items for far less than they have. Change the rules to try and get more money out of the buyers and expect them to continue as they had is hopelessly naive thinking. Most buyers are not lemmings, no matter how much you may want them to be. Snipers will not touch such a bidding scheme - which means sellers will lose some High Dollar Bids. Less bids means what to the final price?
“it is the last high bid received.†the last high bid ?? Curious turn of phrase, but from previous statements, I believe I understand your point - and it is wrong.
I have found the following completed listing. The winning bid was made over 2 hours before the last bid. Look at the TIMES.
9***0( 60) AU $15.50 11-Feb-09 18:07:22 AEDST
e***7( 10) AU $15.00 11-Feb-09 20:32:25 AEDST
e***7( 10) AU $14.00 11-Feb-09 20:31:37 AEDST
t***t( 139) AU $12.50 11-Feb-09 16:58:26 AEDST
9***0( 60) AU $10.00 11-Feb-09 18:06:13 AEDST
6***e( 11) AU $7.00 11-Feb-09 17:27:14 AEDST
6***e( 11) AU $6.00 11-Feb-09 17:26:54 AEDST
e***b( 9 ) AU $5.00 06-Feb-09 00:27:05 AEDST
t***t( 139) AU $5.00 11-Feb-09 16:58:14 AEDST
Starting Price AU $0.99 04-Feb-09 20:36:46 AEDSTI repeat, the reason why this idea has been put forward yet again is that you have not put in your real maximum bid, someone else outbid you and didn’t leave you enough time to bid again - aka the snipe!
To make it rather obvious - Find an item you want - starting price: 99 cents; Place the first bid, say $40 and don’t bid again; Watch 14 other bids get placed over the next week until it finishes; If the highest of those other bids was $26.30 you will win and you will pay $27.30 - how is that not fair?
It would seem you don’t understand the proxy bidding process and/or don’t trust it.
So, WHEN you can cope with snipe bids beating you, THEN you will understand the bidding process. Until then, you are trying to put your interpretation on the rules - and it is wrong.
But, to be fair, the concept you propose is not unreasonable as a proposition - but your arguments against the existing process are fundamentally flawed and from the evidence available where that concept has been used indicate it has not been successful.
So why would eBay want to waste their time?
Smeeagain: holy cow now im for the high jump .. a young freckled lieutenant and a grizzled captain with greedy eyes in pik uniforms have just rocked upto my place one pushing a wheel barrow full of jam made from figs the other with an arm full of apples both have white halos hovering over their heads ... wanting to know if they can have 5 minutes of my time .
Putney: In #52 brumby stated
It would seem you don’t understand the proxy bidding process and/or don’t trust it.
This is an explanation written several years ago by an American Friend of mine... it helps...
PROXY BIDDING:
: © The café Dog
Contrary to popular belief, this has nothing to do with epoxy or peroxide.
Proxy is ebayonics for ‘proxamately’ which means ‘about’ or ‘kinda like’.
This means you are bidding about what you want to pay right now, but not
how much you might want to pay later, although you really hope you aren’t
gonna pay that much now, but you don’t know cause some other dude may
have proxy bidded about what he wanted to pay and it might be real close to
what you wanted to pay right now. If they did that and you did that, then you
will find that what you got is what you get, except that you don’t really get it
unless you change you mind and re-poxy some amount that is more than you
bidded earlier and is about what you are willing to pay now that you’ve had a
chance to reconsider what you bidded earlier.
There really isn’t a problem unless
one or more other peeps are thinking about like you are, and that is pretty scary.
Anyway, if you bidded more than the current bid or the starting bid (whichever is
applicable, and more than the standard bid increments, and if no one else has already
proxy bidded in the meantime, or if they have proxy bidded and you proxy bidded
more than they did, , and if there is no reserve, then ebay will only accept
that part of your bid that is needed to make you the current high bidder. Ebay takes
the extra money you bidded and puts it in a little piggy bank and they leave it there
until some other dude comes along and bids more than the current bid, but less than
what you proxy bidded and then the shake the money out of the piggy bank and add
it to the auction so you will still be the high bidder instead of the other dude.
They
will do that even if you don’t know it’s happnin. You could be down at the Dairy
Queen eating one of them foot long dawgs and still out bid the dude. Neat, huh?
Well, if the new bidder puts in a proxy bid that is higher than your proxy bid, then
he becomes the high bidder, and you get the money back that they had in the piggy
bank….maybe. If you get home from the Dairy Queen and proxy bid again and out
proxy the other guy then they will keep that money and whatever new money you
bidded providing you are the high bidder at the end of the auction. (They don’t
actually keep it, but you know what I mean) You have to be careful though because
even if you get outbidded, you could still end up winning the auction if the high bidder
cancels his/her bid or if the seller thinks the high bidder has cooties or something and
boots em off. It’s not actually real money in the piggy bank anyway….not until you win.
For more information on that see ‘ebay mon
Falconsportspack: OR READ THE EBAY SITE MAP !!
I was just going to suggest something similar.
If people read through the site map on how to buy, before they started bidding, we wouldn’t get this silly suggestion coming up all the time.
Even eBay say to enter the maximum amount you’re willing to pay.
Here’s how bidding on eBay works:
When you place a bid, you enter the maximum amount you’re willing to pay for the item. The seller and other bidders won’t know your maximum bid amount.
eBay places bids on your behalf starting with the next bid increment for the auction. We’ll bid as much as necessary to make sure that you remain the high bidder (or to meet the reserve price). We’ll keep bidding for you until bidding reaches your maximum amount.
If another bidder has placed the same bid before you or a higher maximum bid, we’ll let you know that you’ve been outbid so that you can place another bid if you want. However, if no other bidder has a higher maximum bid at the end of the auction, you win the item even if your bid doesn’t go as high as your maximum bid. You could pay significantly less than your maximum price. This means you don’t have to keep coming back to re-bid every time another bid is placed.
You can find that on this page.
http://pages.ebay.com.au/help/buy/proxy-bidding.htmlTripillian-au: If you pursue the flawed arguments made by many snipers present you would need to restrict the number of bids ny one individual can make to one. Their highest bid. They would have to be prevented from making a second bid. I am not advocating that rule but the assumption that the last bid is the highest bid is false. The highest bid should go to the person who is prepared to pay the most for the item and the caution should continue to allow all bidders to be considered.
Again I stress that eBay can and should make this an option that the seller can chose. It would appear that this seeking to prevent this option being made accessible think they are best served by the snipper opportunity. They and others are not.How many people walk away from eBay and how many sellers have lost out as a result. I would suspect thousands.
I have not hear or read any substantial or valid argument against the introduction of an optional delayed Auction close.
Introduce the option and in a month or two assess the value and uptake of the delay. Then and only then can you truly assess the user support. If it is not good then sellers will not select it.if it is sellers will selct it.
Countessalmirena: Absolutely. I like that. You see, we could keep auctions going for YEARS. Everett (an out-of-work janitor with an unspecified medical complaint, receiving a pension every two weeks) could claim he would pay more if only the auction were extended until he got his next payment from Centrelink. Keep the auction going, because HE says he’s going to pay more than anyone else.
Unscrupulous Fran, a competitor selling the same sorts of items as the seller, sees a golden opportunity to tie up the seller’s funds and put him out of business. She nibble-bids and nibble-bids and nibble-bids and nibble-bids with a false ID, continually extending the time until the seller loses his house and his wife runs away with a man who clipped the nails of her poodle (the poodle was called Rambina). In the meantime, Fran (who would never be silly enough to use an extendatimelimit option for her listings, is raking in the profits and gleefully laughing while drinking Cabernet Sauvignon and delicately popping pickled herring into her mouth.
Smeeagain: is fran back on the plonk again! are you sure or is that just meant as a red herring
Brumby: “If you pursue the flawed arguments made by many snipers present you would need to restrict the number of bids ny one individual can make to one. Their highest bid. They would have to be prevented from making a second bid.â€What a bizarre interpretation.
Countessalmirena: Fran is so plonk-enabled that, while plastered from a night pouring down the Cab-Sav as though she were a clogged drain and it were Draino, she accidentally parcels up her cat to send to a buyer in South Australia, and feeds half a tin of whiskers to the mobile phone she was selling.
She sobered up slightly when the buyer complained the cat did have a nice purring dial-tone but absolutely refused to connect him to emergency services when it began scratching once he started dialling.
Did647: A lot of people have spent a lot of time here answering your question in many varied and funny ways. The one thing they all have in common is that they are RIGHT!!
What part of the deluge of NOOOOOOOOO’s don’t you understand.?? Do you honesty think no one gets it bar you ???
May I suggest you sit down quietly somewhere with an open mind and reread the thread. An epiphany awaits you!!!
