Author Topic: Is this an example of Shill Bidding? (Read 9395 times)

*Brum6y* · « **on:** March 03, 2011, 12:57:22 PM »

Air Compressor Industrial Pilot V Twin Cyl 2HP Professi

Check the winning bidder's history and then notice it has been relisted the next day - for a start price significantly higher than the 'winning bid'.

Then comes a question: If you want to report the suspected 'shill bidding', you are supposed to provide a valid user id ... which is rather impossible, since the bidder ID's have been masked.

... or am I missing something?

*CountessA* · « **Reply #1 on:** March 03, 2011, 03:39:17 PM »

I'll look at it when I'm home... At the moment I'm eyebrow-deep in translating things Chinese.

Elantra · « **Reply #2 on:** March 03, 2011, 04:36:48 PM »

Quote from: *Countessa* on March 03, 2011, 03:39:17 PM

I'll look at it when I'm home... At the moment I'm eyebrow-deep in translating things Chinese.

What,,,,, A letter from Mr Rudd?

*CountessA* · « **Reply #3 on:** March 03, 2011, 05:10:48 PM »

No - just reams and reams of books (descriptions, titles, authors) that have to be uploaded to a website.

I haven't received ANY communications from Mr Rudd (not in Chinese, not in German, not in classical Greek, not in Dutch, not in Spanish, not in French, not in mediaeval Latin, not in... well, you get the idea. Not a word. Not - a - word. But that's all right. I haven't written to him either...!).

Liisa-Sx · « **Reply #4 on:** March 03, 2011, 05:11:55 PM »

Quote from: *Brum6y* on March 03, 2011, 12:57:22 PM

Air Compressor Industrial Pilot V Twin Cyl 2HP Professi

Check the winning bidder's history and then notice it has been relisted the next day - for a start price significantly higher than the 'winning bid'.

Then comes a question: If you want to report the suspected 'shill bidding', you are supposed to provide a valid user id ... which is rather impossible, since the bidder ID's have been masked.

... or am I missing something?

Brumby..

Absolutely shilling no doubt !!!

Bidder n***l ( 204Feedback score is 100 to 499) Has ONLY bid on the seller smoothsales2010's Auctions, the retractions bar 3 are ALL on the aforementioned sellers items (those three I guess the shiller did not feel the need to retract)

30-Day Summary
Total bids:    39
Items bid on:    20
Bid activity (%) with this seller:    100%
Bid retractions:    5
Bid retractions (6 months):    33

We can easily cross reference this with other Auctions from smoothsales2010 as seen here on the bicycle for example, actually both bicycles:


Bidder Information
Bidder:    n***l ( 204Feedback score is 100 to 499)
Feedback:    99% Positive
Item description:    Item Title: Bicycle Used in Circus,The Worlds Smallest Pushbike!
Bids on this item:    2

30-Day Summary
Total bids:    39
Items bid on:    20
Bid activity (%) with this seller:    100%
Bid retractions:    5
Bid retractions (6 months):    33

I have reported the listings and no you do not need the bidder ID, you report the item numbers painfully one by one. sadly ebay will probably NOT remove them.

PS: for the record the hidden shill bidder N***l is actually:

Member id trojanleo03 ( Feedback Score Of 204Teal star icon for feedback score in between 100 to 499)
Easy to discover when you know how.

*Brum6y* · « **Reply #5 on:** March 03, 2011, 05:26:28 PM »

Somebody made a point that this probably isn't shilling as such, but rather a means to set an artificial reserve.

I can see that might be the case, but it still adds up to artificially inflating prices.

Not comfortable. I feel there is a risk I do not need to take, so I am just going to avoid this seller completely.

Liisa-Sx · « **Reply #6 on:** March 03, 2011, 05:28:12 PM »

Quote from: *Brum6y* on March 03, 2011, 05:26:28 PM

Somebody made a point that this probably isn't shilling as such, but rather a means to set an artificial reserve.

I can see that might be the case, but it still adds up to artificially inflating prices.

Not comfortable. I feel there is a risk I do not need to take, so I am just going to avoid this seller completely.

It actually IS shill bidding as such.. it is exactly shill bidding, they just are too greedy and not very good at it.
Setting an artificial reserve via shill bids is still against the law and ebay policy and is classed as shill bidding

Run away from this one brumby run far away.

Member id trojanleo03 is the shill bidder in case you misse dit in my ammended post below.. he leaves feedback when he inadvertantly wins, he consistantly leaves feedback exactly 2 days after the Auction ends on them all.

I also double checked to see if it was a legit purchaser bouncing bids to see the bidder aboves upper limit but thats not the case.

*Brum6y* · « **Reply #7 on:** March 03, 2011, 05:43:11 PM »

The use of feedback tracking to identify the shill is only a guess. Mind, you with a correlating feedback score, that guess is pretty sound.

... but if the seller cycles through a group of shill IDs - or this is a relatively new situation - you aren't going to be able to be as confident.

*Brum6y* · « **Reply #8 on:** March 03, 2011, 05:45:49 PM »

Update:

This listing (120692610150) has been removed, or this item is not available.
Please check that you've entered the correct item number
Listings that have ended 90 or more days ago will not be available for viewing.

*Brum6y* · « **Reply #9 on:** March 03, 2011, 05:49:28 PM »

.... so I wonder if a***g( 171) from the first auction will be offered the item for AU $164.19 ?

(Yes, I know - I'm being funny .... sorta

)

Liisa-Sx · « **Reply #10 on:** March 03, 2011, 05:59:53 PM »

Quote from: *Brum6y* on March 03, 2011, 05:43:11 PM

The use of feedback tracking to identify the shill is only a guess. Mind, you with a correlating feedback score, that guess is pretty sound.

... but if the seller cycles through a group of shill IDs - or this is a relatively new situation - you aren't going to be able to be as confident.

Hi again Horsie

I didn't have to guess lol, I viewed the items the shill bidder had bought via feedback and guess where they led back to lol

Now thats a first, I only reported those listings 30 mins ago or less.. glad Ebay saw the shilling as well, mind you I spelled it out pretty clearly, I loathe shill bidders.

In fact when I checked.. every single one of that sellers Auctions were gone, even the Buy it now's.

The Auctions will have vanished completely from the sellers lists, a total wipe so they won't be able to do any "second chance offers" or even see who the other bidders were.

Here is what our shill bidder Trojanleo03 had previously "bought" from your seller:
http://cgi6.ebay.com.au/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewBidItems&userid=trojanleo03&completed=1&all=1&rows=50&sort=15&_rdc=1

*Brum6y* · « **Reply #11 on:** March 03, 2011, 06:21:20 PM »

I understand what is being said - that on the grounds of probability, this IS the shill bidder.

However - and this is my with IT hat firmly on top of my head - it is NOT guaranteed. It is entirely possible that another ID exists that fits the disguised ID and has the same feedback score.

Admittedly the odds of such a situation are astronomical - but it IS POSSIBLE.

I have survived for many decades in the IT industry because I do not take a high probability as a certainty.

I'm not saying I disagree with the nominated ID - just that there is room for doubt (albeit only half an electron wide)

Liisa-Sx · « **Reply #12 on:** March 03, 2011, 06:28:49 PM »

Quote from: *Brum6y* on March 03, 2011, 06:21:20 PM

I understand what is being said - that on the grounds of probability, this IS the shill bidder.

However - and this is my with IT hat firmly on top of my head - it is NOT guaranteed. It is entirely possible that another ID exists that fits the disguised ID and has the same feedback score.

Admittedly the odds of such a situation are astronomical - but it IS POSSIBLE.

I have survived for many decades in the IT industry because I do not take a high probability as a certainty.

I'm not saying I disagree with the nominated ID - just that there is room for doubt (albeit only half an electron wide)

No No Horsie, I agree there is definately a minute possibility that it is not the same ID.

I just checked the ID in the feedback in correlation with the same items bid on by the "shill" ID and they matched, it's just my educated guess LOL

*Brum6y* · « **Reply #13 on:** March 03, 2011, 06:37:28 PM »

That's OK Liisa - I like that 'educated guess'. There have been a couple of people who have made the same deduction.

While I'm not big on gambling - I'd be happy to put some money on it!

*CountessA* · « **Reply #14 on:** March 03, 2011, 08:52:03 PM »

Very savvy work there, Liisa. (And well spotted, Brumby.)

I only had time for a very quick look before it all went *pffff!* into the electron-shimmering air.

This is, in all likelihood, an unfortunate seller who is not very well versed in the techniques of avoiding detection when it comes to shill-bidding. He/She almost certainly used the same computer for both IDs, if we assume that the minuscule possibility of misidentification is small enough to count as negligible. That's why the shill-bidding was so quickly identified when Liisa reported it. (eBay's "sophisticated" system, you know - they can *gasp* match the same IPs up with each other... once someone reports the shill-bidding activity. You have to admit they're amazing, eBay's anti-shill-bidding team.)

*Brum6y* · « **Reply #15 on:** March 04, 2011, 12:17:12 PM »

The *relisted* item is gone - but the original listing (refer to link in OP) is still there. The original listing holds all the interesting details...

chookcity · « **Reply #16 on:** March 04, 2011, 04:32:00 PM »

7 Items all "Buy it now". The penalty for shilling.

Interesting to see if the penalty lasts longer than 1 week.

*Brum6y* · « **Reply #17 on:** March 11, 2011, 02:56:22 AM »

I noticed this, too....

*Brum6y* · « **Reply #18 on:** March 11, 2011, 11:04:02 AM »

... and I found this rather interesting as well. The seller ID in particular: http://cgi.ebay.com.au/Air-Compressor-Pilot-Compact-25Lt-2hp-Dual-outlet-/280642068690?pt=AU_Air_Tools&hash=item41579220d2#ht_500wt_1046

*Brum6y* · « **Reply #19 on:** March 11, 2011, 11:12:33 AM »

AND when you have a look at their 'other items' what do we see?

http://cgi.ebay.com.au/Air-Compressor-Pilot-Industrial-V-Twin-2-Hp-/280642075126?pt=AU_Air_Tools&hash=item41579239f6

If there were any reservations left on the identities of the seller, they've pretty well evaporated now.

*CountessA* · « **Reply #20 on:** March 11, 2011, 11:25:27 AM »

I think we can knock a few member numbers off eBay's total... There is really no doubt that these are one and the same.

Liisa-Sx · « **Reply #21 on:** March 11, 2011, 02:16:17 PM »

Brumby, that trojanleo ID was the one I mentioned near the beginning as the shill bidder that I reported initially that kept 'winning' lol, I'll be keeping a close eye on the shilling that is sure to occur now the shiller has switched ID's..again lol

Quote from: Liisa-Sx on March 03, 2011, 05:59:53 PM

Quote from: *Brum6y* on March 03, 2011, 05:43:11 PM
The use of feedback tracking to identify the shill is only a guess. Mind, you with a correlating feedback score, that guess is pretty sound.

... but if the seller cycles through a group of shill IDs - or this is a relatively new situation - you aren't going to be able to be as confident.

Here is what our shill bidder Trojanleo03 had previously "bought" from your seller:
http://cgi6.ebay.com.au/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewBidItems&userid=trojanleo03&completed=1&all=1&rows=50&sort=15&_rdc=1

News:

Author Topic: Is this an example of Shill Bidding? (Read 9395 times)