Author Topic: The ELECTION Thread  (Read 253162 times)

mandurahmum

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Re: The ELECTION Thread
« Reply #100 on: July 22, 2010, 06:05:35 PM »
Yes mum new mines may be an election issue for NIMBies. Existing mines are old issues

hello Shyer - I am talking about new mines. 

May I ask where you are from?

mandurahmum

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Re: The ELECTION Thread
« Reply #101 on: July 22, 2010, 06:09:18 PM »
Rebel - thanks for the info. 


bnwt

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Re: The ELECTION Thread
« Reply #102 on: July 22, 2010, 06:13:57 PM »
anyone that tags them self with Founder of Womens Action for Nuclear Disarmament ... that applies any group not just nuclear disarmament ... is a joke and should be avoided

womens action group ........... that is so sexist .... no ....... that is just hilariously 80's

I would say it needs a more inclusive title  ........ Founder of the Green Non Gender Specific Howard/Bush Hating ABC Loving No War in Iraq Inner City Organic Non Violent Affirmative Action Nuclear Disarmament GLBT Collective

I don't have a closed mind ......... I know if you have a message you want to attract listeners, go about it the right way

if you boast loudly you are a leftie the only people that will listen are other lefties .... sane people will have already lost interest

it's not what she's says it's how


*Brum6y*

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Re: The ELECTION Thread
« Reply #103 on: July 22, 2010, 06:16:52 PM »


it's not what she's says it's how



I already made that point.  Not being comprehended here.

Rebel*1*

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Re: The ELECTION Thread
« Reply #104 on: July 22, 2010, 06:40:06 PM »
Brumby he was referring to Caldicott, and your unfounded personal opinion of me has nothing to do with the subject at hand.  IN any reasoned debate You don't get to impose your own standards of PC over any opposing opinion by way of shooting the messenger while ignoring the message.  That's just oppressive.


anyone that tags them self with Founder of Womens Action for Nuclear Disarmament ... that applies any group not just nuclear disarmament ... is a joke and should be avoided


bnwt, so on the basis of that you dismiss everything else this person has ever been involved in or achieved?   Isn't that discriminative and small minded?   At the turn of the century, women didn't have the right to vote, own a home or have any say whatsoever over the custody of their children.  I could educate you on the Women's movement that allowed us mere 'hysterical females' the privilege of having a vote, but frankly it's up to you to educate yourself mate.   Sexist Really?  

In Australia:  

1901: Women in Australia get the vote, with some restrictions.

1902: Women in New South Wales get the vote.

1902: Australia grants more voting rights to women.

You somehow think that women shouldn't stick together as men did for centuries in their own best interests, prior to us being granted the most basic of rights?  Voting?  Give me a break.  Women have had only a century of equal rights mate in something as basic as voting.  I'll be happy to see a reasoned debate any time soon, on 'equal pay' for 'equal skill' devoid of the gender bias in pay and salary rates that still exists even now.

As for our Indigenous mates, well their right to vote happened much later.  I think it's about time to hear from the 'silenced' majority.




Rebel*1*

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Re: The ELECTION Thread
« Reply #105 on: July 22, 2010, 06:50:59 PM »
Rebel - thanks for the info. 



You're welcome M/Mum, us goils have to stick together, and of course common sense, is just not that common is it?  Maybe Julia can bring something that basic to the table as our First Female Prime Minister. 

We can only hope. 

*Brum6y*

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Re: The ELECTION Thread
« Reply #106 on: July 22, 2010, 06:57:06 PM »
Rebel - My earlier comments were directed at exactly the same concept that BNWT expressed - and that they were irrespective of who presented a message, just how it was presented.  This actually puts you and Caldicott on the same level on this point.

You're the one taking things as 'personal' attacks and I find that a very weak argument as an excuse to oppress people with an opinion that differs from yours.

*Brum6y*

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Re: The ELECTION Thread
« Reply #107 on: July 22, 2010, 07:00:46 PM »

IN any reasoned debate You don't get to impose your own standards of PC over any opposing opinion by way of shooting the messenger while ignoring the message.  That's just oppressive.


I couldn't have said it better.

mandurahmum

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Re: The ELECTION Thread
« Reply #108 on: July 22, 2010, 07:12:57 PM »
Don Randall - our federal MP may be given a run for his money.  Alana Mactiernan has now resigned from state parliament to contest his seat.

She probably has a lot of support - she gave us what we were promised for over 20 years - a train.  It probably does not seem like much - but it used to take nearly 2 hours to get to perth from here on the buses - now its a 46 min train trip.  And like I said - it was promised for over 20 years.

We also were lucky if we had a bus every hour - on weekends it was every 2 hours.  And the last bus back to Mandurah left Perth at around 8pm.

Now we have a train every 10 - 15 mins and they run till midnight.

This has not only brought a lot of day trippers to our town - it has also given the elderly more freedom.  My grandmother and her friends will often spend hours on the train to escape the heat in summer.  They ride it to Joondalup - get off have a cup of tea then go back.

And the cctv on the train is just superb - you know you are fairly safe - because there are guards at every station and if they spot someone doing the wrong thing on the train - they are kicked off at the next station.




Rebel*1*

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Re: The ELECTION Thread
« Reply #109 on: July 22, 2010, 07:19:30 PM »
Rebel - My earlier comments were directed at exactly the same concept that BNWT expressed - and that they were irrespective of who presented a message, just how it was presented.  This actually puts you and Caldicott on the same level on this point.

You're the one taking things as 'personal' attacks and I find that a very weak argument as an excuse to oppress people with an opinion that differs from yours.


Well, if you want to put me on the same level as Caldicott, I feel honoured, though it would only be in so far as committment and common sense.  She's got it all over any of us with actual knowledge.  As for me misconstruing the terms 'lefty', 'Greenie', 'Commie', 'Socialist', 'sexist' as being anything other than small minded subjective name calling, I think you're completely mistaken.  That kind of rhetoric is personal, but not on my part.  I'm just at the receiving end of all that apparently logical abuse?

I haven't called anyone any similar names by comparison, for their political leanings.  I'm neither left or right, I've said that already.  I'm against the ALP if they want to turn our Country into a Nuclear waste dump on that issue specifically.  Who wouldn't be, but the Libs will give us nothing different.   

All I've done is provide examples of what's being said by those in the 'know', every time a discriminative generalisation is made. 

Do you speak on behalf of people like MM Brumby? who are on the 'front line'? Seems to me she's been completely open minded, unprejudiced and gracious by comparison.   

Rebel*1*

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Re: The ELECTION Thread
« Reply #110 on: July 22, 2010, 07:24:43 PM »

IN any reasoned debate You don't get to impose your own standards of PC over any opposing opinion by way of shooting the messenger while ignoring the message.  That's just oppressive.


I couldn't have said it better.

Then maybe you should walk the way you 'would have' talked and stop being so subjective. ?

Did you forget this preceding sentence in context?  "your unfounded personal opinion of me has nothing to do with the subject at hand".

mandurahmum

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Re: The ELECTION Thread
« Reply #111 on: July 22, 2010, 07:26:26 PM »
shyer you talk about nimby's as if there was something wrong with that.  You are right that I am very concerned over what is happening over here - and why shouldn't I be - its my home.

You also think that I am anti mining - well that is very wrong - I am all for responsible mining if its done correctly, and with a lot of consultation with the locals.  This does not seem to happen over here - the indigenous people are concerned about the Kimberley - and why shouldn't they be.  It has been their home for a lot longer than its been ours.  The Kimberley also has a lot of sacred sites for them - and a lot of rock art that is thousands of years old.  They even have dinosaur footprints in some of the rocks.

its just that we dont trust mining companies to do the right thing - and we have proof.  Just look at Barrow Island.  60 breaches since September last year. - 5 critical and 2 major.  

http://www.perthnow.com.au/news/western-australia/chevrons-barrow-island-project-leads-to-alleged-environment-breaches/story-e6frg13u-1225874707056

and they have not been prosecuted for any breaches.  Even though they are putting at risk some endangered animals.  So you see - we know that even with strict guidelines - companies can break them without fear of retribution.




*Brum6y*

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Re: The ELECTION Thread
« Reply #112 on: July 22, 2010, 07:29:52 PM »

Do you speak on behalf of people like MM Brumby? who are on the 'front line'? Seems to me she's been completely open minded, unprejudiced and gracious by comparison.   


I make absolutely no assertion to speak on behalf of any particular person - unless I hold their proxy to do so (which, on this thread, I have none.)

I only make comment on things as they appear to me and could only presume that, as an Australian of no particular significance, there are others who may not disagree with some of the things I say.

I find it troubling that you have seen fit to associate my comments with MM. Is that how you wish to discredit me - by making up your own associations and then shooting me down because of them?


You want me to be silent? - then so be it.

Rebel*1*

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Re: The ELECTION Thread
« Reply #113 on: July 22, 2010, 07:31:20 PM »
Look out mum, you run the risk of being called a 'loonie leftist greenie' if you dare speak your mind as someone being directly affected.  Woe be tied if you actually have an opinion that puts dollar value second to longer term risk.  You bloody lefty you !!!.  lmao

Why isn't Sustainable Mining an election issue one has to ask?  




*Brum6y*

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Re: The ELECTION Thread
« Reply #114 on: July 22, 2010, 07:35:39 PM »

 "your unfounded personal opinion ".


That was your invention.

My original comment only ever commented on how your message was presented.

Rebel*1*

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Re: The ELECTION Thread
« Reply #115 on: July 22, 2010, 07:37:45 PM »
I find it troubling that you have seen fit to associate my comments with MM. Is that how you wish to discredit me - by making up your own associations and then shooting me down because of them?

I find it troubling that you seek to blame your own 'reactions' and negative interpretations on somebody else.  I made the 'distinct point' that MM cared about this issue and by comparison was following the debate graciously, with an open mind and without prejudice to the word 'social' discrediting all else beyond that point in the mind of some.  What you make of that is your interpretation only.  Perhaps you need to skip to an opposite point of view for a while and imagine walking a mile in other people's shoes.  Like the Indigenous Locals of those regions.

I have, (but then, I've actually been to many of those regions) I consider the economy while I'm considering 'SUSTAINABLE' and 'RESPONSIBLE' mining in this country and equal rights to the rightful land owners.    There needs to be a balance.  There isn't.

Rebel*1*

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Re: The ELECTION Thread
« Reply #116 on: July 22, 2010, 07:39:42 PM »

 "your unfounded personal opinion ".


That was your invention.

My original comment only ever commented on how your message was presented.


So in effect, you admit to SHOOTING THE MESSENGER???  in defense of ignoring the message?  Not subjective?  Not conditional? What are you a PC prefect?

*Brum6y*

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Re: The ELECTION Thread
« Reply #117 on: July 22, 2010, 08:07:53 PM »
Now that is personal - aside from being a distortion of the truth.


... and if that is the level on which you wish to conduct discussion - then I'll leave you with it.

golden

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Re: The ELECTION Thread
« Reply #118 on: July 22, 2010, 09:02:34 PM »
Am I allowed to do this?  or is it sniping from the side?   :lol:

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golden

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Re: The ELECTION Thread
« Reply #119 on: July 22, 2010, 09:04:09 PM »
I've been waiting for ages for it to fit someone else!!  Thnx   :roflmao:

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Nightparrot

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Re: The ELECTION Thread
« Reply #120 on: July 22, 2010, 09:16:07 PM »
Hey everyone, I think Julia Gillard is doing OK, I prefer her and most of her cabinet to what's on offer from the Libs. However, the local member is a hard working Lib who I have a lot of resepct for. So what to do? I am thinking I should go for the strong local member. What do you think?

mandurahmum

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Re: The ELECTION Thread
« Reply #121 on: July 22, 2010, 09:24:11 PM »
Nightparrot - I am in the same boat.  Don Randall is my federal member - a Liberal.  But that aside he certainly looks after us in his electorate, which is more than other politicians have in the past.   You can guarantee that if you email him with a question - you will get a response.


wyzeguy60

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Re: The ELECTION Thread
« Reply #122 on: July 22, 2010, 09:33:17 PM »
well, after many hours of reading this thread it has become painfully clear why I " never " show my hand anymore on forums in regards to politics.
I do discuss politics many issues and it may surprise many that I studied politics at UNI in 1979.
I will only do it face to face in a comfortable environment where both sides can clearly be heard and disseminated carefully.

Too many friends to lose IMO over such arguments.

I will ask one thing though that is vaguely political.

Q. How much more performance does a race car have when you change the driver ?

A. None - the only difference will be how good or bad the driver is !

 ;D



golden

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Re: The ELECTION Thread
« Reply #123 on: July 22, 2010, 09:35:26 PM »
I agree with Nightparrot.   What do you do?   Can I ask is it bad/good for us to have 50 Libs, 50 ALP, and 50 Independent/Greens?  When on this occasion there seems to be no clear winner?  or do I just vote for the hottest chickie babe handing out the cards?  ;D


Rebel*1*

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Re: The ELECTION Thread
« Reply #124 on: July 22, 2010, 09:57:51 PM »
Now that is personal - aside from being a distortion of the truth.


... and if that is the level on which you wish to conduct discussion - then I'll leave you with it.

Oh give me a break Brumby.   

You interjected out of the blue with your subjective pearl of wisdom  aimed at me, based on something bnwt was aiming at Caldicott.    I simply addressed it, ducked, and returned it to the sender. 

We are debating political issues, and those issues that should be in this upcoming election, for all Aussies to decide.  We are not debating my communication style.  I consider that completely subjective and personal in light of the thread topic.

As for the pitfalls of discussing politics, we are approaching a federal election, so how can anyone be expected to say nothing on issues they find relevant to them personally, or this country generally? 

You're right though Wyseguy, changing drivers won't improve the performance of the clapped out vehicle that is Australian Govt. generally.


MrsFluffyDodgers

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Re: The ELECTION Thread
« Reply #125 on: July 22, 2010, 10:46:01 PM »
I agree with Nightparrot.   What do you do?   Can I ask is it bad/good for us to have 50 Libs, 50 ALP, and 50 Independent/Greens?  When on this occasion there seems to be no clear winner?  or do I just vote for the hottest chickie babe handing out the cards?  ;D



Hellloooo Golden....   ;D   - Just signed up to hand out the cards. 
Any cream cakes or chocolate?

wyzeguy60

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Re: The ELECTION Thread
« Reply #126 on: July 22, 2010, 10:56:06 PM »
the farmers are doing it tough MrsFluffyDodgers

see this poor lass here



 ;D

MrsFluffyDodgers

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Re: The ELECTION Thread
« Reply #127 on: July 22, 2010, 11:21:08 PM »
Oooooh Helllooo Mr Wyzeguy60  (Does this mean you are sixty years young or is that how many pushups you can do?)

that is a fine speciman of a woman you have shown there, but I have first dibs on Golden....
Any cream cakes or chocolate?

golden

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Re: The ELECTION Thread
« Reply #128 on: July 23, 2010, 12:16:49 AM »
  but but  Mrs D.....    :huh: :'( :tanty:

 :tangorose:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MKaZxafu_GY

mandurahmum

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Re: The ELECTION Thread
« Reply #129 on: July 23, 2010, 02:04:15 AM »
Golden - Is the government in general doing enough to help our farmers?  Is there one thing that they could do to make life easier and more profitable for the farmer?

The only farms around where I live are Horse Studs - most of them are laughing all the way to the bank, but I know this is not typical of all farmers. 

Farmers are important to us - unfortunately I dont know any to ask, but I am interested in what is important to different people.

Ta

golden

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Re: The ELECTION Thread
« Reply #130 on: July 23, 2010, 05:39:52 AM »
Hi Jane.  I guess farms come in all shapes and sizes, from small intensive berry/flower operations to massive grazing/cropping properties. Therefor what affects a salmon farm in Tassie doesn't matter to a mango grower in FNQ. We are in central Vic and produce lambs and crops such as barley, oats, wheat, I can only speak for myself.

All Aussies though believe we are a continent and should be taking advantage of that. We need to promote ourselves around the world as CLEAN, GREEN and FRESH. Free of crippling diseases like mad cow, rabies, foot and mouth etc..and ethical farmers in the way we treat our animals. With a traceable structure in place, if out breaks were to occur. The Govt need to provide funding for that, a small outlay considering the benefits to an industry that provides 12% of GDP.

Genetically modified crops is a big issue here. Most people see these foods as being "untested" contaminates, being pushed down our throats by large multi nationals like Monsanto and destroying that image.  I don't want them, others do, but the Govt seem to have some wishy woshy views and once they are allowed in all areas, there will never be a turning back point.

Climate change is also a hot topic, not so much for the reasons in the thread on this subject but because we just WILL NOT stand for being taxed every time our sheep farts. Its a stupid argument and Aussie farmers wont buy it.

On a national issue we really need to get food labelling sorted. Again large companies like Coles and Woolies get away with things like  "product of Aus" etc and no one really understands what any of it means.  I believe most of us would support Australian farmers over imports but we just don't know which is which. That's a federal issue and they need to stand up and set strict, easy to understand guidelines.

Govt is a poor neighbour.  If you border a forest or crown land they wont pay their half of the fence for eg, they allow feral animals to breed out of control.  They allow massive numbers of lice infected roos/foxes etc here, they dont feed them in droughts, provide water, but take away our rights to shoot them or poison them. We just have to suffer them, the damage they do, the feed they steal, the lambs they kill.  We will be prosecuted if we dont control our weeds, yet they can let them run rampant on roadsides.  If they provided $$ and equipment most farmers would do the controlling for them.  There is way too much bureaucratic paper work to even deal with these govt departments.  We see all our levies going towards all these conferences but no action on the ground.

We've had a couple of good years lately, we are not complaining about commodity prices we are getting at well maintained livestock centres near us.  This will end though if sound management isn't in place.  Like everything it could be done better, and alot of farmers are ageing and pretty stuck in their ways.  PETA is a good example of that.  Some of their ideas are  "öut there"  (like calling fish, sea kittens, so people wont eat them)others need to be dealt with (like mulesing) and work with these influential groups rather than against them.

Every American eats 600gms of garlic per annum, but only 400 grams of lamb (2 chops) if they ate 4 chops the world would never keep up with lamb production again.  Thats the sort of promoting/trade talking, I would like to see.  So therefor I'm voting for Sam Kekovich  ;D  

bnwt

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Re: The ELECTION Thread
« Reply #131 on: July 23, 2010, 09:41:22 AM »
time for a good laugh

Signs point to Neal standing


http://www.smh.com.au/federal-election/signs-point-to-neal-standing-20100722-10mzr.html


don't you know who she is

bnwt

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Re: The ELECTION Thread
« Reply #132 on: July 23, 2010, 10:58:18 AM »
julia has been PM for a month

she said the three main issues that needed attention was 1. the mining tax  2. boat people  3. climate change

what score do you give her ??


I'd say ZERO out of three

*r3830*

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Re: The ELECTION Thread
« Reply #133 on: July 23, 2010, 11:07:10 AM »
In answer to your question bnwt...... -39!

I've posted this under the Global Warming thread as well - but it also has relevance here......

Protesters disrupt Julia Gillard's climate policy speech

"And, if I am wrong, and that group of Australians is not persuaded of the case for change, then that should be a clear warning bell that our community has not been persuaded as deeply as required."

Now.... don't ya absolutely LOVE the above quote! If you're not persuaded to say YES to global warming.... you will require further brainwashing! And.... just who the blardy hell says that this "theory" is undeniable fact anyhow????

http://www.news.com.au/features/federal-election/julia-gillard-to-hand-over-climate-policy-to-citizens-assembly/story-e6frfllr-1225895870006#ixzz0uSl4IOa5

Rebel*1*

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Re: The ELECTION Thread
« Reply #134 on: July 23, 2010, 11:57:27 AM »
Loco, I agree with the suspicious sentiment surrounding Global Warming, and the feeling that our pockets are continually wet with all of the hosing down of facts going on.  But I think many are skeptical (justifiably) because the public themselves have not been given the facts, and many of us can't really decide what we believe.  

I would like to see a 'non political' debate over several weeks on Global warming, held by the Scientists who are arguing for and against. Devoid of all political spin or economic overshadowing.  i.e. NO POLITICIANS or Lobby groups, or Big Business execs, just scientists.   I'd also like them to identify who the biggest polluters are because something tells me that Big Business will get exemptions up the ying yack in any carbon trading scheme, and we'll end up footing the bill for their share.  Just like Mining.   The massive increase in Electricity prices lately is a good example of just how much we're already being stitched in the name of 'Global Warming'.  It's obscene

In order for us (The Australian People) to vote on an issue this complicated and important Nationally, we have to know the facts.  

Then and only then can we cast an informed vote on each party's strategies for addressing it.  I for one have no idea what a Carbon Trading Scheme would impose on us mere mortals. I'd be much more interested in voting on a scheme that forces big business to work on developing cleaner technology, and reducing their contribution. Oh, and we'd have to give golden a sack of corks so he can stop all those sheep farting.  That's a problem, lmao.

Here's an example of why people become skeptical in the first place over Global warming.  

Several years ago, we had the hottest New Years Day in decades.  My Tree ferns literally melted.  No kidding.   The news media reported that we had not had a New Years Day that hot since 1938.  In the next sentence, they opined that it must be because of Global Warming.  It got my attention because there was an obvious anomaly in that conclusion.   How does Global Warming explain the same heat on the same day in 1938?  

Did a whole lot of cows fart in unison ?  This is the kind of bullshit (pun intended) that makes us all skeptical to some degree.

Everything that happens now, even the ferocity of bush fires, is being blamed on Global Warming, when in reality, wild fires happen because idiot greenies (see I said it) stand in the way of responsible fuel mitigation.  In that respect, I'd like to give the Greens an earful.   Like I said, neither left nor right but a bit of both depending on the issue.  No party has the balance completely right.  None.  

Reminds me of a saying:  It's not a matter of who is right or wrong, it's a matter of which wrong is more right.  


*r3830*

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Re: The ELECTION Thread
« Reply #135 on: July 23, 2010, 12:31:43 PM »
Rebel - Good morning!

I would like to see a 'non political' debate over several weeks on Global warming

There could well have been some time ago..... but it wasn't to be. Government has placed all its eggs in the one basket on global warming.... and their opinion is - in their own stated opinion - the only correct one. I know this to be fact - because Julia has told me that:

"And, if I am wrong, and that group of Australians is not persuaded of the case for change, then that should be a clear warning bell that our community has not been persuaded as deeply as required."

Politicians are never wrong.... simple rearrangement of the facts along with some imagination can see to that. Part of the above statement is quite correct - our community has not been persuaded - given the flawed and plainly fudged information that was 'created' to enhance the 'it is' side of the argument, and given the manipulation that was doctored by these very same people in preventing the alternate information from being made available so that people could see a balanced debate. Why did the PRO global warming believers have to LIE to put their case across? Was it that bad a losing battle?
A balanced - non political debate..... not at all likely, when the government is already backing its own horse! Even if confronted with absolute fact that global warming is NOT an issue - I don't see them changing their policies - other than pushing in the direction of say... Oxygen depletion.

Exemptions to business or otherwise.... business can't lose - as they'll pass on their costs to the consumer anyhow.

In order for us (The Australian People) to vote on an issue this complicated and important Nationally, we have to know the facts. 

The facts according to who? The government - or the 'deniers'? Another interesting term 'deniers'.... the alternative being the 'followers' who believe they can fly when they jump off a cliff..... following Mr Rudd! The sad thing is that their blind belief will see them all dead at the bottom of the cliff.

Did a whole lot of cows fart in unison ?

I like that thought! Perhaps it was a gaggle of ill informed politicians.

Rebel, I personally have nothing against the greenies. For mine, these people are doing what they feel is the right thing to do. But, in order to do the right thing - all things need balance. There has been very little balance whatsoever in the matter of Global Warming. But, on the upside ( at least for him) Mr Rudd may yet get that all important seat on the UN. That was something of far greater importance to him personally that were the people or the state of this nation.


bnwt

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Re: The ELECTION Thread
« Reply #136 on: July 23, 2010, 01:26:09 PM »

Rebel*1*

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Re: The ELECTION Thread
« Reply #137 on: July 23, 2010, 01:43:47 PM »
Afternoon Loco, I have this vision of Lemmings?  Is that what they call em?.  LOL.  

Whether Abbott or Gillard are elected, the mining companies are the winners either way.  Abbott will abolish the mining tax, and that too has me curious.

I'd like to know what Abbott considers is a reasonable amount for the Australian people to receive, given that it was the previous Coalition Govt. who gave the mining companies such a free ride at $1.00 in $7.00.  Previously it was $1.00 in $3.00.  So by my math, the mining companies owe us at least twice what they've been paying for our resources, in back debt already.

Isn't anyone curious to know what Abbott intends to charge the mining companies?  He has said that a mining tax will get through over his dead political body, or words to that effect.  Isn't he saying in effect that he doesn't want to charge the mining companies more than they're already paying?.  

mandurahmum

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Re: The ELECTION Thread
« Reply #138 on: July 23, 2010, 06:24:29 PM »
Hi Jane.  I guess farms come in all shapes and sizes, from small intensive berry/flower operations to massive grazing/cropping properties. Therefor what affects a salmon farm in Tassie doesn't matter to a mango grower in FNQ. We are in central Vic and produce lambs and crops such as barley, oats, wheat, I can only speak for myself.

All Aussies though believe we are a continent and should be taking advantage of that. We need to promote ourselves around the world as CLEAN, GREEN and FRESH. Free of crippling diseases like mad cow, rabies, foot and mouth etc..and ethical farmers in the way we treat our animals. With a traceable structure in place, if out breaks were to occur. The Govt need to provide funding for that, a small outlay considering the benefits to an industry that provides 12% of GDP.

Genetically modified crops is a big issue here. Most people see these foods as being "untested" contaminates, being pushed down our throats by large multi nationals like Monsanto and destroying that image.  I don't want them, others do, but the Govt seem to have some wishy woshy views and once they are allowed in all areas, there will never be a turning back point.

Climate change is also a hot topic, not so much for the reasons in the thread on this subject but because we just WILL NOT stand for being taxed every time our sheep farts. Its a stupid argument and Aussie farmers wont buy it.

On a national issue we really need to get food labelling sorted. Again large companies like Coles and Woolies get away with things like  "product of Aus" etc and no one really understands what any of it means.  I believe most of us would support Australian farmers over imports but we just don't know which is which. That's a federal issue and they need to stand up and set strict, easy to understand guidelines.

Govt is a poor neighbour.  If you border a forest or crown land they wont pay their half of the fence for eg, they allow feral animals to breed out of control.  They allow massive numbers of lice infected roos/foxes etc here, they dont feed them in droughts, provide water, but take away our rights to shoot them or poison them. We just have to suffer them, the damage they do, the feed they steal, the lambs they kill.  We will be prosecuted if we dont control our weeds, yet they can let them run rampant on roadsides.  If they provided $$ and equipment most farmers would do the controlling for them.  There is way too much bureaucratic paper work to even deal with these govt departments.  We see all our levies going towards all these conferences but no action on the ground.

We've had a couple of good years lately, we are not complaining about commodity prices we are getting at well maintained livestock centres near us.  This will end though if sound management isn't in place.  Like everything it could be done better, and alot of farmers are ageing and pretty stuck in their ways.  PETA is a good example of that.  Some of their ideas are  "öut there"  (like calling fish, sea kittens, so people wont eat them)others need to be dealt with (like mulesing) and work with these influential groups rather than against them.

Every American eats 600gms of garlic per annum, but only 400 grams of lamb (2 chops) if they ate 4 chops the world would never keep up with lamb production again.  Thats the sort of promoting/trade talking, I would like to see.  So therefor I'm voting for Sam Kekovich  ;D  

Thanks Golden.

I agree with what you said about food labelling - I only want to buy food from either Australia or New Zealand - but you just cant tell with the ambigous labeling.  To me - product of Australia - should mean produced in Australia - the food not the package.  I do want to know where my food is grown.  I saw a doco on Vege's grown in China using human waste as a fertiliser - well I dont want to eat that food.  We do need truth in labeling.

I also agree with what you said about PETA - I am not a fan of theirs - they have done some good - but boy are their ideas out there.  Calling fish anything but fish is just stupid.  Fish is a staple of many peoples diets all over the world - and most of us fish responsibly.  I dont believe fishing is the reason our fish stocks are depleting - I actually think its the crap that we allow to enter the sea that is the main problem.  Just look at that huge rubbish dump in the sea in the Pacific - its twice the size of the USA.  Who the hell allowed that to happen, and why the hell has it not been cleaned up.  That is disgusting and disgraceful.  Apparently most of it is thrown off ships and oil platforms - Are these people just pigs.  We spend a lot of time on boats in the summer - and I can guarantee you that no rubbish is ever disgarded in the sea - we take it with us and then put it in a bin.  Its not hard.

I dont know much about mulsing - but I am sure that the farmers do this because it is neccesary - maybe you could tell me more about it.

I did watch a doco on Dr Peter Andrews (not our Peter Andrews) but another who is helping a lot of farmers with the water flow on their properties - and the struggles he has had making the government listen to him.  I have seen the work he does - and I cant understand it - this guy is remarkable - and it is not even new technology - its common sense.

I also did not know that about properties that border state forrests or crown land.  That certainly does not seem fair to farmers.

I did not know that the Yanks only eat 400 grams of lamb a year - I love a good lamb roast - they are certainly missing out. 

mandurahmum

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Re: The ELECTION Thread
« Reply #139 on: July 23, 2010, 06:31:04 PM »
I forget about gm food.  I dont get this - we have modifed our fruit and vegetables enough already - they no longer taste the way they used to - and that is a shame.  It may also be the reason we are getting so fat - a lot of fruit has lost its natural sweetness - so no wonder we prefer sugary crap.

Meat is also something we have fiddled with - I cant eat meat from Coles or Woolworths - they must do something to it - because half an hour after eatting it - i throw up.  Even when I dont know its from Coles or Woolworths - it makes me and my son sick.

Lucky for us - the local Farmer Jacks store is owned by a farmer who provides most of the beef and lamb we eat.  Its a little more expensive (its black angus) but it is so full of flavour and does not make me sick, so that is where we get our meat from.

At the same store - the fruit and veg section is owned by a farmer too - so most of the product is from his farm or other local farmers.


*r3830*

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Re: The ELECTION Thread
« Reply #140 on: July 23, 2010, 06:32:43 PM »
But then...... if they ate more Lamb in the US.... our producers would increase their exports, and the local market prices would rise much further than they presently are. Does the farmer earn $23 a kilo for his animals at market?

mandurahmum

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Re: The ELECTION Thread
« Reply #141 on: July 23, 2010, 06:34:20 PM »
But surely they can raise sheep in the USA.


*r3830*

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Re: The ELECTION Thread
« Reply #142 on: July 23, 2010, 06:42:03 PM »
I'm sure they can in most parts of the world..... but I'm told that we export the bulk of our production, and only the non-export component serves the local market. You mentioned Coles Mandura.... The beef that they pack here includes a high level of water.

mandurahmum

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Re: The ELECTION Thread
« Reply #143 on: July 23, 2010, 06:54:11 PM »
I'm sure they can in most parts of the world..... but I'm told that we export the bulk of our production, and only the non-export component serves the local market. You mentioned Coles Mandura.... The beef that they pack here includes a high level of water.

and preservatives.

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Re: The ELECTION Thread
« Reply #144 on: July 23, 2010, 08:21:11 PM »
Regarding Boat People.....

I'm told of an article that tells of the incoming boat people ...... and how they are concerned that if Labor loses the election - they won't be able to come here anymore.

mandurahmum

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Re: The ELECTION Thread
« Reply #145 on: July 23, 2010, 10:39:53 PM »
How exactly is abbot proposing to stop boat people - does he really think he can turn them back, because if that is his policy it will just lead to them blowing up their own boats - so not only will we still be housing them - we will be housing them in Hospitals in the Burns unit.  Or otherwise people will just jump of the boats - and then we have to rescue them - and then they just refuse to leave the boat and our boat gets tied up for months - because it cant do its job.

I live in WA - we are the ones that house the most - and it does annoy me - we spend more money on their accomodation than we do for the mentally ill of the community who live on the streets.

I dont know what the solution is - or if there is one


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Re: The ELECTION Thread
« Reply #146 on: July 24, 2010, 12:25:21 PM »
Mum, the solution certainly isn't fear.  This is 800 people.  We need to keep this media and Abbott generated hysteria in proportion to the problem.  Millions have fled Afghanistan in the past 9 years, and many more are fleeing Afghanistan presently until the expected resurgence is over with.  Australia receives a tiny proportion of those refugees.  Seems to me people are being socialised by media hysteria, into being fearful or resentful of these people rather than compassionate and tolerant. 

I've already highlighted that Afghanistan will soon be independently wealthy in their own right.  No longer a 3rd world country, but now a wealthy one and able to support itself.   It changes everything Mum. (as long as the US and mining companies don't get to exploit it, or create a whole new war over it)  It means that there is now 'hope' for the Afghan refugees Worldwide, to return to their otherwise impoverished and war torn country in the next few years. 

We need to change our point of view perhaps, and realise that once Afghanistan is safe and prosperous many will want to go home.  We are simply offering a safe harbour.  In that regard, I happen to agree with Abbott, that Temporary Protection Visa's should be reinstated.  It makes sense to me, but his other views on the issue do not make sense in context with the bigger picture.  He refuses to acknowledge the push factors remember?  Says they have nothing to do with 'boat people'?  How dumb is that?. 

Nevertheless, getting back to the election:

I've just been watching Julia Gillards Press conference, and I have to say, she presented in a humorous and gracious manner, no cheer squad, she was interacting with the media in an intelligent fashion and explained each of her policies.  Quite impressive.

Now I'm watching Abbott give a speech to his party faithful in WA and what a wonk.  He entered via a US style anthem, with huge applause from his own party faithful (so what), and then proceeded to give the most shallow 'slogan' heavy speech I've heard from any Coalition/Lib leader ever (even Johnny).

They really are scraping the bottom of the barrel with this bloke.  His entire speech this morning, was about dissing Gillard,  not intelligently addressing her policies, or explaining what he stands for by comparison.  Just harping on that the sky is about to fall if we elect Gillard?  What a joke.  Does he imagine that Aussies are so dumb they don't want to be informed of why the sky will fall if we elect her, and why it won't if we elect him?  I haven't heard one positive policy from that guy yet.  It's all fear and slogan.

Just go and watch the Sky news coverage of Gillards press conference and then watch the Party Faithful speech by Abbott and his press meeting by comparison.

Oh, and his new catch word drives me up the wall 'Shambolic'.  Sloganism 101. 

Now he's going on about interest rates?  Oh please.  I have a very good memory when it comes to a time when 'Australians had never been better off'  Famous last words?  along with 'Australia will never have a GST' ?.  The say anything to get elected approach?

I hope Abbott is stupid enough to argue interest rates because that alone will be his undoing with those of us who remember the last few years of the Coalition Govt.  Highest interest rates ever.   They couldn't keep the interest rates down then and they won't be able to now.  Just more spin.

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Re: The ELECTION Thread
« Reply #147 on: July 24, 2010, 12:43:57 PM »
OH, lol and one thing he said that was outstandingly condescending.  He said that The Australian people don't want to admit they got it wrong (i.e. by electing the ALP at the last election).  Oh really?

Does anyone remember what was really happening in 2006-2007 in terms of the huge disparity between 'have's and have nots'?  It's illuminating when you look at the State of the nation in those two years in particular, vs the state of the Rich in those same years.

It's not surprising that Howard was voted out when you look back at some of the statistics vs his famous last words "Australians have never been better off".  He just didn't say which Australians. 

shyer

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Re: The ELECTION Thread
« Reply #148 on: July 24, 2010, 02:49:36 PM »
I think abbot has too many negatives against him to win this election. He is relativly unknown , he is not popular with women, he does not have a good TV or internet style. Gillard is still in her honeymoon period with voters and has many free women votes.

Is she Australias first PM to be living in a de-facto arrangement? I know a lage number of Australians do live that way, but is society ready to say it is acceptable for the highest elected office?

I hope Gillard wins. As I do not see the GFC as over , China demand is slowing again, we have massivelly overpriced housing and interest rates rising. I see huge problems no party in power will not escape blame for. Gillard another one term PM.

The real danger is if Greens get the balance of power in the senate. That could take decades to sort the mess out they WILL create. Vote for who you like for the lower house. BUT for the senate a vote for labour could be a vote for the greens. WHO has experience in running this country and is accountable? Labour and Liberals FULL STOP. Let them keep the lower house accountable

Whitlam in 3 years bought Australias economy to is knees, The greens could send us back to the horse and cart and volunteer cavalry bread knives only , as the only defence force.

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Re: The ELECTION Thread
« Reply #149 on: July 24, 2010, 04:25:55 PM »
Shyer, no offense, but that's completely irrespective, defacto is the same thing when it comes to 'community property' 'Child custody' issues and child support etc.  Unbelievable that anyone wants to focus on such shallow distinctions in this century.  But no doubt Abbott will be raising that too very soon in true 'toe cutting' form as always.  Let's face it, he just isn't as articulate or as intelligent as Julia Gillard and it shows.

BTW, She didn't move into the lodge simply to dodge that kind of subjective prejudice.  Smart lady. 

As for her being elected just because she's a woman, that too is the same shallow crap Abbott is trying to feed us all.  Now he's making it about gender?  I'd like to see him win that argument with the Women of this country.  Tokenism is what he's preaching and that's just ridiculous in light of Gillards actual skills.    What a sham.  It's not only women who are giving her support, it's anyone who isn't subjectively tilted to the right on 'political' grounds.

Some of us actually want to see Australia and its everyday people actually prosper, not just Australia's richest people.   

Go and watch Gillards press meeting of this morning in its entirety and see what many other Australians are seeing .  Someone who seems logical, practical, intelligent and considerate.  She makes allowance for the fact that Community consensus is not behind either party on the Global Warming issue and at least intends to  INFORM the public of the science for and against and let us decide.

Good stuff.