WHAT AM I ? . . . . . (Let's give them a name!)

[*Brum6y*]

In the spirit of the great quiz shows...

WHAT AM I?

 * I am a seller on eBay
 * I list incredible volumes of merchandise
 * I have no qualms about creating hundreds of listings for the same item at the same time
 * My products are usually cheap in all senses of the word
 * I enjoy displacing nearly all other sellers in the searches
 * I invade every category I step into
 * I have a good deal on my fees that nobody will want to talk about
and
 * I don't worry about my feedback, percentages or DSRs

I AM A ......?

[*Brum6y*]

Offerings so far:

Glutlisters
Floodlisters
Glutsters
Floodsters
Dumpsters
Flooders
Chinese Sellers
Swampers

I'm suggesting we run this for a week then have a poll to pick an OZRT Nomination for a name.  

Something fitting, possibly ironic or satirical, hopefully poetic, not too politically incorrect (well...) but definitely pointed!

So - PLEASE add your thoughts, ideas and suggestions.....

(Even if you think your idea isn't Pulitzer Prize material - post it.  It might inspire a magic idea from someone else!!)

[*CountessA*]

eBayvaders

(Very tongue-in-cheek and slightly naughty): PowerSerrers

[tellomon]

Gloms; Glommers; Glommites

[tellomon]

Power Shonks.

[**cupie**]

Listing Spam, Keyword Spam, even price and category Spam



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=anwy2MPT5RE

BTW..I filter out OS sellers, so the spammers I'm referring to are most assuredly Australian Power Sellers....

[*Brum6y*]

So, ALL Australian Powersellers should be taken out and shot..?

Be very aware.... saying "All the spammers are Powersellers" is absolutely NOT the same as saying (implicating, suggesting, hinting, inferring and especially shouting from the rooftops) that "All Powersellers are spammers" and it is this latter message that I take exception to - Not because I have a love for Powersellers or are getting kick-backs - but because it is fundamentally WRONG.

That is no more valid than saying 'ALL health professionals rort the Workers' Comp. system'.



Anyway, 'Spam', as you put it, is what they are generating .... We're looking for a name for THEM.

(PS. I do like the Monty Python sketch)

[*Brum6y*]

(Very tongue-in-cheek and slightly naughty): PowerSerrers

'Slightly naughty'..?  Perhaps from the politically incorrect overtones.

Rather naughty... as per my previous post.

[**cupie**]

No, but by the same token, you can't speak for, or vouch for all Powersellers being as upstanding as the the ONE you represent....

Brumby, how often do you actually buy online?.........I buy at least half a dozen or more items every week....I deal with a lot of sellers as a customer, and I search a LOT of listings....but I'll give you a few examples you can review for yourself.....of blatant category glutting

I'm not saying that the Powersellers GLUTTING price categories for pages on end are untrustworthy or bad, I'm saying that they SPAM the hell out of categories and it makes it annoying as hell for buyers to filter them out of searches.....As I said, examples are the only way to demonstrate what I'm saying...entire price ranges spammed out by ONE seller only....then another price category spammed out by yet another seller....

And when it comes to searching 'vintage' and getting endless 'p/seller' listings for brand new jewellery for instance, listed as 'vintage style', or 'vintage look' or 'vintage inspired'..yes, it gets annoying.....if it ain't vintage, then it shouldn't be listed as such...What is vintage look, anyway?...what vintage? 1940's?, 1950's 1960's? 70's...that's keyword spamming.....

I don't doubt that a majority of p/sellers are upstanding but some behave in a predatory manner and probably use keyword, price and category spamming to get into more searches....one might view that as being clever in business, but as a consumer, I find it bloody annoying....if I search for 'vintage necklace'...I don't want to go through 400 listings (mostly p/sellers), with 'vintage look', vintage inspired'...anything to get into the search results....

Crikey....just try searching for Sterling...or 925.....but don't forget to put in your search -new -pandora -swarovski -beads......Because if you don't do that, you'll get spammed to kingdom come by p/sellers predominantly selling those items....how they get into 925 searches I don't know....but there's no doubt in my mind that some of the big sellers do everything they can to get in the buyers face.....perhaps 'BEST MATCH' has something to do with that change of culture?

[*Brum6y*]

WRONG

[*Brum6y*]

WRONG

[*Brum6y*]

WRONG

[**cupie**]

i.e. sellers are aware that buyers will use the search function, particularly if they're seasoned buyers, to filter down to exact items using keywords....problem is, if the sellers use those same keywords in their listings when it doesn't actually describe the item... it defeats the whole purpose of filtering them out doesn't it?.....Honestly...I've searched for Sterling and then had to go back and filter out -plated.....Sterling plated?....*shakes head*....Silver plated maybe, but sterling silver is sterling silver....925......also 925 plated?...huh? lol...I'll give you some examples via PM, so the sellers I'm referring to are not identified here.

BTW...whats with the BIG TEXT?.....screaming?

[*Brum6y*]

You are STILL making the same accusation....

Blaming POWERSELLERS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I only have to provide ONE example of your statement being wrong and I could CRUCIFY you in a court of law!!!

You would have to prove - beyond reasonable doubt - that ALL Powersellers are guilty!!!  Good luck with that!!!!


I agree that there is a subculture within eBay sellers that can be tagged - but the tag of POWERSELLER is not the right one.

That's why I'm seeking an alternate name .... one that IS appropriate and IS directed solely at that group.



Are there any Powersellers here that like being grouped together with these 'Glutlisters/swampwers/spam generators' or feel it is fair????

[*Brum6y*]

Cupie - I don't disagree with anything you say - except when you identify the offenders with the label Powerseller.

THAT is fundamentally incorrect.

[**cupie**]

You are STILL making the same accusation....

Blaming POWERSELLERS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

How do you come up with that?....read again I said.....

I don't doubt that a majority of p/sellers are upstanding but some behave in a predatory manner and probably use keyword, price and category spamming to get into more searches.

I only have to provide ONE example of your statement being wrong and I could CRUCIFY you in a court of law!!!

You would have to prove - beyond reasonable doubt - that ALL Powersellers are guilty!!!  Good luck with that!!!!

I can provide you with many more than one example....would you like a list?....I WON'T provide the search examples here because in so doing the sellers would be obvious wouldn't they?....so, if you wish to resort to legal prose....the very fact that I'm observing their privacy would tend to indicate that you'd have buckley's chance of CRUCIFYING me legally for a PERSONAL opinion.  

I agree that there is a subculture within eBay sellers that can be tagged - but the tag of POWERSELLER is not the right one.

That's why I'm seeking an alternate name .... one that IS appropriate and IS directed solely at that group.

Are there any Powersellers here that like being grouped together with these 'Glutlisters/swampwers/spam generators' or feel it is fair????

The fact of the matter Brumby is that most of the Australian glut listers are in fact powersellers.....coincidence? or culture?....Powersellers (by the very nature of their relationship with Ebay), must sell a certain volume to retain that status...is that correct?.....and hence, they are encouraged to list as much as possible.....I have no issue with that....it's the glutting of price categories and keyword spamming that I have an issue with.....3 pages of listings at 1.08 all by the same seller?.....then another one that always lists at 1.99...another 3 pages of listings.....then cut out another several thousand using terms like 'vintage style, Inspired or Look'....and you finally find the real thing...but as I said, I'll provide you with four common searches I do just about every day on Ebay.....and you can draw your own conclusions about keyword and price range spamming....and how much you like having to filter it all out, or skip pages and pages of glut listings. Crikey prior to filtering out OS listings, it's even worse....lol

Call them whatever you like....some of them are spammers at every level...and I believe Ebay is responsible for this culture developing in recent years.....

[*Brum6y*]

No, but by the same token, you can't speak for, or vouch for all Powersellers being as upstanding as the the ONE you represent....

Highlighting the word 'ONE' is a clear attempt at putting me in my place.  Not wearing that one for a second.

[*Brum6y*]

You still don't get it, do you?

[*CountessA*]

(... which is why I noted it was a bit naughty and tongue-in-cheek, because I agree the problem is not with powersellers per se, but with that proportion of powersellers who glut the results, provide shoddy service and reach powerseller status purely by the volume of cheap and nasty (and in some cases, fake) items they are selling. They're the ones whose practices have tainted the name "powersellers" in the perception of some... I agree that a specific name for the bad powersellers would be helpful, so that we can use that term instead of the term "powersellers" (which does give the genuine powersellers an undeserved bad reputation).

Continuing with some other suggestions...
Turbosellers?
Spamsellers?

[*Yibida*]

I love the smell of napalm in the morning...

{ back to the topic ~ please continue..LOL }

[**cupie**]

...but you don't view your statement as being equally provocative???...

So, ALL Australian Powersellers should be taken out and shot..?

I never said ALL powersellers, I've qualified most of my comments by saying some powersellers....and you miss the point, the whole powerseller status is based on 'mass listings'...lol.....the distinction being, how to retain that status without GLUTTING, keyword spamming or price range spamming....sounds like a very difficult task....so....the very culture of being a powerseller, may in fact be the culprit here, not p/sellers themselves....if they fail to achieve minimum sales, don't they lose their p/seller status?

and who's the one using HUGE CAPITAL LETTERS TO MAKE A POINT?...crikey....it's not a one way street.

[gr8-expectations]

BNWT has not even posted on this thread, brumbs is in bold tello type lol - ur losin ut cupsie wupes ... hehe

[**cupie**]

I'm not typing in font 36 Mr.T....who's losing it?...I'm not missing the point at all.

Ebay's p/seller culture is to sell sell sell...so that's the nature of the beast...why is anyone surprised therefore that p/sellers list a lot of items?...they do...because they have to.....The distinction is that some have low, or no ethics when it comes to competition....they do anything they can to get into searches, spam categories and whatever else, because that's the nature of the beast.....nevertheless, they are still p/sellers, and yes, they do give other powersellers a bad name, but it's Ebay who drives this predatory culture.....and some will naturally play harder than others at it....i.e. shill bidding and the like....we know it exists, we know it's  not a majority, but by the very nature of the p/seller program, some sellers will play dirty to stay ahead......

So who's missing the point?...I'm blaming the culture ebay has set down...Powerseller status being bestowed on the basis of sheer volume of sales over Excellent f/back-customer service.

If P/seller status relied on the latter, or at least a half measure of excellence over volume, then perhaps the playing field would be evened...and predatory conduct would stand out more and be easier to curtail.

it's in the interest of p/sellers to campaign for their status to be based at least to some degree on customer service and feedback rather than volume alone.....otherwise, this culture will continue and probably grow..

[gr8-expectations]

i dont disagree but who wrote this? its gone now from this thread ....

...but you don't view your statement as being equally provocative???...

So, ALL Australian Powersellers should be taken out and shot..?

[*CountessA*]

As I understand it, Brumby's making the point that using the term "powerseller" as a pejorative (or to describe the bad behaviour of some sellers) is inappropriate because not all powersellers indulge in that bad behaviour.

Cupie's making the point that eBay's policy of rewarding powersellers, together with the stress of fulfilling the eBay requirements of being a powerseller, has created a culture in which to be a powerseller may well be the push that creates or exacerbates many sellers into bad behaviour.

It is undoubtedly true that ALL powersellers are not bad.

Equally, it is true that not ALL bad sellers are powersellers.

However, there is particular bad behaviour (glutting of categories, spam words, misleading listings, etc.) which is specific to bad powersellers.

The point of contention is the word or implication (even when it's not intended) that "all" powersellers are guilty of this behaviour. It does only take one good powerseller to demonstrate that the generalisation isn't universally applicable. Hence, we need a term that means SPECIFICALLY "bad powersellers".

This should get rid of the use of the term "powerseller" to describe the bad powersellers, and usher in a term that is juicy, descriptive, catchy and appropriate.

Have I summed it up correctly?

[*Brum6y*]

If we want to get down to grammatical constructs, several of your uses of the word 'Powerseller' are couched within phrasing that implies 'all'.

...and even then, after attempting to side-step that angle, you continue on the same rampage...

the whole powerseller status is based on 'mass listings'

How wrong can you be? That is just absolute poppycock!  Powerseller status is based on dollar value of sales over a defined period.

Sell 1 car a month or a dozen $20 items per week and you'll be a powerseller (at the moment - it IS changing).  You hardly need to 'flood' any category to do that.

if they fail to achieve minimum sales, don't they lose their p/seller status?

Ah. Now we're not sure about how it works....

Yes, indeed, that is correct.  But this is where your argument dies in the bum - especially when you talk about Australian powersellers... Ask them what benefits they get as a powerseller.

- A phone number
- An icon (if they want)
- A discussion board
.. and a nice target painted on their forehead.

No financial benefits at all (that I know of).

As for these 'flooders' all I can say is that, as far as I'm aware, NONE of the financial benefits are derived from having a powerseller status.  From what I can glean, it's a 'special deal'.

[*CountessA*]

The financial benefits of being a powerseller seem to come largely from Chinese sellers.

I suspect (I'm not sure, because I've not checked all such listings, but I've certainly seen it often) that there are so-called "Australian" sellers who are actually in China... and who are very possibly able to list with unbelievable benefits not available to genuine Australian sellers.

[*Brum6y*]

As I understand it, Brumby's making the point that using the term "powerseller" as a perjorative (or to describe the bad behaviour of some sellers) is inappropriate because not all powersellers indulge in that bad behaviour.

Cupie's making the point that eBay's policy of rewarding powersellers, together with the stress of fulfilling the eBay requirements of being a powerseller, has created a culture in which to be a powerseller may well be the push that creates or exacerbates many sellers into bad behaviour.

It is undoubtedly true that ALL powersellers are not bad.

Equally, it is true that not ALL bad sellers are powersellers.

However, there is particular bad behaviour (glutting of categories, spam words, misleading listings, etc.) which is specific to bad powersellers.

The point of contention is the word or implication (even when it's not intended) that "all" powersellers are guilty of this behaviour. It does only take one good powerseller to demonstrate that the generalisation isn't universally applicable. Hence, we need a term that means SPECIFICALLY "bad powersellers".

This should get rid of the use of the term "powerseller" to describe the bad powersellers, and usher in a term that is juicy, descriptive, catchy and appropriate.

Have I summed it up correctly?

(Crossed in the mail..)


Countess, I would call that an exquisite precis.

[**cupie**]

OH FFS....!!!  ....can we give this a miss?....obviously debating an opposing view here, is perceived as being something entirely different.....I have never once said ALL powersellers, that's your perception....the very fact that the ones that glut cats just happen to be p/sellers, is the distinction...they're not ordinary sellers doing that...in fact, you can't even find smaller sellers in the scrum....

Spamming is a p/seller issue, and probably one that the bloody powersellers should sort out if they find the whole concept so distasteful or their reputation so precious.  It's those sellers giving the majority a bad name...not the buyers who get sick to the gills of having to wade through spam....If powersellers want to improve the negative image that some have created, then they should do something to get rid of the bad powersellers.....

[*Brum6y*]

Forgive me if I disappear for a while...

I have some work to do to assist 'an acquaitance who currently has achieved an acknowledged level of turnover on an internet based selling venue' prepare their own web site.

[gr8-expectations]

spamming works for ebay and they will never  do anything about it regardless of who does it because more listings=more$ and more$ is ALL they care about

[*Brum6y*]

If powersellers want to improve the negative image that some have created, then they should do something to get rid of the bad powersellers.....

I'm not a powerseller, nor do I represent any.  My interest in raising this thread comes from an 'on principle' perspective.

In this thread, I make no suggestions as to how a particular class of 'bad powersellers' should be dealt with.  I am simply seeking a name by which they can be accurately identified.

Is not that a first step?

[**cupie**]

Well forgive me for finding the humour in it all, but we're talking about a name here....bad or good, they're still powersellers.....

It brings to mind the performer 'Prince'...and henceforth therefore, all bad powersellers shall be known as the "The sellers formerly known as Powersellers"....lol

What's in a name?

[*Brum6y*]

There you go again.

If I take the powerseller I DO know, as just one example, your statement is false.

[*Brum6y*]

Correction ... the IMPLICATION is false.

[*Brum6y*]

Use a name that doesn't implicate the powerseller I DO know - and I'll be happy.

... and that is what this thread is all about.

[*Brum6y*]

What's in a name?

A stereotype.


.... and, if my observation in life is any indication, stereotypes are never completely accurate.

[**cupie**]

Brumby I said.......bad or good, they're still powersellers.....

Are we NOT talking about powersellers as a group, some of whom are guilty of spamming cats, price groups and keywords?......Hence, BAD OR GOOD tends to demonstrate that I do make a distinction...but they are nonetheless....all Powersellers in the group we are discussing are they not?

[**cupie**]

What's in a name?

A stereotype.


.... and, if my observation in life is any indication, stereotypes are never completely accurate.

I'm not the one trying to come up with a name for bad powersellers...which in and of itself, is just another stereotype isn't it?

[*Brum6y*]

When a name has a defined meaning - such as powerseller - attaching a stereotype to it is a dangerous thing, but when that stereotype is clearly not applicable in all cases, it is patently unfair to those who do not function in the way the stereotype depicts.

I daresay acting on that 'label' it is the exact same principle that gave rise to the anti-discrimination laws.  I would hope we're not playing cards with the 'dinosaur deck'....!


You ask "What's in a name"?

I can give you one example that I reckon would raise your hackles, but I can see it getting out of hand - so I am reluctant to present it.

Even though it's 'just a name'.

[*Brum6y*]

I'm not the one trying to come up with a name for bad powersellers...which in and of itself, is just another stereotype isn't it?

The difference here is that I am attempting to put a name to a defined group.

The stereotype has been outlined and it is THAT which I would like to name.

It is quite different to taking a different term, with it's own definition, and putting an inaccurate meaning against it.

[*Brum6y*]

Brumby I said.......bad or good, they're still powersellers.....

Here you go again.  Look at this statement of yours VERY closely - it demonstrates the very issue I am trying to clarify.

Are we NOT talking about powersellers as a group

NO, we are NOT! We have NEVER been talking about "powersellers as a group".  That has only been YOU.

, some of whom are guilty of spamming cats, price groups and keywords?......Hence, BAD OR GOOD tends to demonstrate that I do make a distinction...but they are nonetheless....all Powersellers in the group we are discussing are they not?

We have been talking about 'bad' powersellers ... but even that isn't strictly correct.  We are talking about the bulk dumping, category flooding sellers, who, in fact don't even have to BE powersellers to be guilty of this behaviour.  The fact that they are is, essentially, irrelevant for this discussion - but it is this casual association which is inappropriate here.

You must understand one fundamental of logic that you are clearly NOT aware of: That for any given statement, the CONVERSE is not necessarily true.  Your use of the word 'powerseller' is in the converse sense to your declared 'distinction' and is the same style of communication that perpetuates erroneous concepts and creates unfair discrimination.

While most people would agree that, when talking about beverages, 'All coffees are drinks' - but you can't say 'All drinks are coffee'.

You are saying one thing and trying to justify it with the converse.

[**cupie**]

Brumby you can knock yourself dissecting ever sentence if you must and assigning a different meaning to it or whatever, this discussion began over powersellers who glut categories.....you took offense to the term powersellers being used to describe bad powersellers.....so you posted this thread to come up with a new name for 'bad powersellers', thereby admonishing all other powersellers....who are not bad....lol...anyway...

Brumby, I don't know where the hell all this angst has come from.....

...... go back to post number five....it was a bloody joke and my submission to your DUBBING of bad powersellers by another 'name' or negative stereotype if you prefer....Spamlisters .....I also replied to someone elses comment that many spammers were Asian ....I filter out OS listings, and I don't buy new, I buy vintage....so it was a valid comment based on my own observations...then read your replies to that one post.....first an assumption that I'm generalising my comments of certain spam power sellers to ALL....then huge bolded font with WRONG WRONG WRONG..???.

And if it's my hackles you're aiming to raise, don't bother......Ugly names bestowed by people with no integrity are more reflective of their poor character than mine....in that instance, it isn't stereotyping it's name calling....oh well, sticks and stones eh?

but if you feel you need to use personal knowledge to prove a point...then please use the PM and get it all off your chest...I've said all I have to say about powersellers and the culture that creates a dog eat dog mentality on ebay these days......so whatever you end up calling them...it doesn't matter to me...it's only a name....the ones who glut the most are still going to be p/sellers...lol...

[*Brum6y*]

Read the Countess's summation.

She picked it in one.

You still can't see the issue because you're on your own soap box.

[*Brum6y*]

Here's a couple of piccies - since words are failing....

They are called Venn diagrams - and are a topographical representation of sets and subsetting.

The first is simple enough and (hopefully) self explanatory....

[attachment deleted by admin]

[*Brum6y*]

The second illustrates all the ins and outs of this debacle ... and presents the topic and intent of this thread....


Name the brown circle:

Note: to qualify for inclusion in the brown circle, a seller need only be guilty of flooding a category or categories with large numbers of listings. (Location, status, turnover or any other criteria are not under consideration for this exercise.)

[attachment deleted by admin]

[*Yibida*]

This may be just my simplistic way of looking at things but if a name must be given why can't it be:

"Bad power seller" or "Good power seller" ...this way when any reference regarding powers sellers in general are concerned we have Good or Bad to differentiate the two....

Go on.... tell it's not this simple.

[*Brum6y*]

Yib - you're a lot closer - but this thread includes any seller who swamps categories.

I'll just stick with the 'Name the brown circle' request.  Something catchy would be good - but definitely associated with the 'flooding' bit of the various 'bad' behaviours.

That's all this thread was about.

[*Brum6y*]

I should clarify - to qualify for inclusion in the brown circle, a seller need only be guilty of flooding a category or categories with large numbers of listings. (Location, status, turnover or any other criteria are not under consideration for this exercise.)

[*CountessA*]

(I still like "glutlisters"... but that may be bias since it was my suggestion.)

My dear lovely friends, you two basically agree, but because of the background you have respectively with your buying/selling/helping/other experience, there are different perceptions coming in to play.

Can I suggest a moratorium with the following agreements?

1. Not all powersellers are bad.
2. Some of them are.
3. The ones that are bad show behaviour such as flooding the listings, listing misleadingly, providing poor service, etc. (Some of these list-flooding etc. sellers are not even powersellers, but they show the same behaviour.)
4. It's these baddies for whom a descriptive term is needed (to avoid tarring all powersellers with the same brush even if that's not intended or even thought).

We agree?