The Parliamentary Deadlock Farce

[*r3830*]

Mum - that would be the best response on this topic to date.

[*r3830*]

Bob Katter to release list of demands

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/national-affairs/capital-circle/bob-katter-to-release-list-of-demands/story-fn59nqgy-1225913169487

Over the weekend Labor Treasurer Wayne Swan refused to rule out rebuilding the tariff walls that Labor began tearing down in the 1980s - a process continued by the Coalition under John Howard.
But in a speech at the National Press Club on Wednesday, Prime Minister Julia Gillard ruled out rebuilding the tariff walls.
Mr Katter has a long history of criticising the free market, saying it has gutted Australia’s manufacturing base and hurt farmers.


Why... Oh Why..... Oh Why is this so. I just soooo don't understand the thinking in the present tariff arrangements!

And - it's a comment from an Independent .... therefore it is open to ALL POLITICAL OPINIONS ! Sort of a non-denominational statement you could say.

Why is it that under the Free Trade Agreement - we DON'T impose any tariffs to protect our own industries.... well, those that are left at least - when all the other signatories apply 49% to protect theirs?

Virtually everything I find these days is made in China. We are importing grain into Australia... NOTE - Australia! Our dairy industry is quickly dying, and we import fruit juice from the US. I've got a mate in the Riverina, NSW who is a Citrus grower. He plows most of his crop back into the ground because he can't find markets for his fruit. Are people aware that we are talking about importing beef into this country? NOTE AGAIN - in Australia!

Once upon a time - not all that many years ago, this country was self-sufficient. It is rapidly headed towards overseas dependency. Goodness knows just what the hell we'll do here in the event of a supplier dispute offshore.

Australian made used to be a title that held pride. It appears that our leaders - irrespective of who they are or their allegiances - are hell bent on destroying that notion.

Thoughts??

[*Ubbie Max*]

Bring back Customs duties to protect  Australian industries & farming. It would also be a revenue raiser for the government & then just maybe a few of the taxes that are hurting many Australians could be eased but, there goes one of those flying pigs!

       

[*r3830*]

I've got the trusty '08 at the ready Ubbs!

[Poddy]

The people in control is a very idealistic concept, if only it were true

The only control the vast majority of the population have is in putting an X in a printed square in good faith, with the hopes that it may contribute  in some small way to what they believe is the way that the country they live in should be governed.
There are no guarantees that what has been promised them by their representative will eventuate and invariably the promises are empty words, designed to attain a level of power and personal ego gratification that they aspire to.

We have seen what lengths they go to if those aspirations are threatened even in the smallest way.

The party propaganda machine is a virtual bottomless pit filled to overflowing with resources and those resources are lavished in gaining/ maintaining the vice grip on power.

If only there was a severe degree of penalty for the non deliverance of election promises the situation that exists in our parliamentary at the present time could be kept to a manageable level.

[elantra]

The people in control is a very idealistic concept, if only it were true

The only control the vast majority of the population have is in putting an X in a printed square in good faith, with the hopes that it may contribute  in some small way to what they believe is the way that the country they live in should be governed.
There are no guarantees that what has been promised them by their representative will eventuate and invariably the promises are empty words, designed to attain a level of power and personal ego gratification that they aspire to.

We have seen what lengths they go to if those aspirations are threatened even in the smallest way.

The party propaganda machine is a virtual bottomless pit filled to overflowing with resources and those resources are lavished in gaining/ maintaining the vice grip on power.

If only there was a severe degree of penalty for the non deliverance of election promises the situation that exists in our parliamentary at the present time could be kept to a manageable level.

sound like your starting to see the light!
I like it.

[*Ubbie Max*]

"the trusty '08"Good stuff numbers, I'm ready also.

[*r3830*]

Ubbs.... I was thinking.... yes, I know that's NOT GOOD - but.... Are you still open to that earlier job application.... you know... the speaker, co-located with the trusty barrett? Think we'll be in serious need of your services from here on in.

[*Ubbie Max*]

I'm free. Barrett is loaded & cocked.

[*r3830*]

CRIKEY Ubbs.... how I could have used that statement regarding Bob Brown earlier!

Anyhow..... good to know. Let me know if I can assist with a reference for ya!

[*Yibida*]

Hi guy's, how did the shooters and fishing party go ?....

[*Ubbie Max*]

I dunno Yib. I hope they did well in the senate but, the media doesn't bother to keep us up to date on senate figures.

I guess all will be revealed in July next year when the new senators take their seats.

[Poddy]

Trala !!, I saw the 'light' a long time ago, under circumstances that you can not even imagine in your wildest dreams.

The 'light' is bright and clear with no distortion or blurry edges. Light travels in a straight line and is a constant, well under most circumstances anyway, it can be reflected, bent, and altered in colour to a certain extent.
As long as you are aware of what is altering it you can ascertain it's integrity.
The trick is to see through the smoke and mirrors and follow it back to its originating source.

Sadly that ability has not been learned by the vast majority and so they believe what they think they see and hear.

My hopes for the continuation of our species and our country is the lifting of the veil and seeing with clarity and REALITY.

[*r3830*]

Whackoooo! How are ya Yibs!

I believe half went fishing and the other half hunting. Still waiting on the results. Amazing really - in our time of electronics!

[*Yibida*]

Your probly right numbers ... I'd rather be fishing or hunting any day... LOL

[*Ubbie Max*]

The blokes are off fishing this weekend & I can't go. Mongrel!!

[mandurahmum]

Bob Katter to release list of demands

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/national-affairs/capital-circle/bob-katter-to-release-list-of-demands/story-fn59nqgy-1225913169487

Over the weekend Labor Treasurer Wayne Swan refused to rule out rebuilding the tariff walls that Labor began tearing down in the 1980s - a process continued by the Coalition under John Howard.
But in a speech at the National Press Club on Wednesday, Prime Minister Julia Gillard ruled out rebuilding the tariff walls.
Mr Katter has a long history of criticising the free market, saying it has gutted Australia’s manufacturing base and hurt farmers.


Why... Oh Why..... Oh Why is this so. I just soooo don't understand the thinking in the present tariff arrangements!

And - it's a comment from an Independent .... therefore it is open to ALL POLITICAL OPINIONS ! Sort of a non-denominational statement you could say.

Why is it that under the Free Trade Agreement - we DON'T impose any tariffs to protect our own industries.... well, those that are left at least - when all the other signatories apply 49% to protect theirs?

Virtually everything I find these days is made in China. We are importing grain into Australia... NOTE - Australia! Our dairy industry is quickly dying, and we import fruit juice from the US. I've got a mate in the Riverina, NSW who is a Citrus grower. He plows most of his crop back into the ground because he can't find markets for his fruit. Are people aware that we are talking about importing beef into this country? NOTE AGAIN - in Australia!

Once upon a time - not all that many years ago, this country was self-sufficient. It is rapidly headed towards overseas dependency. Goodness knows just what the hell we'll do here in the event of a supplier dispute offshore.

Australian made used to be a title that held pride. It appears that our leaders - irrespective of who they are or their allegiances - are hell bent on destroying that notion.

Thoughts??

Its pretty disgusting isn't it.    The free trade agreement was probably a great theory - but it has not really worked.  Our farmers cant compete with the internationals because they dont have the government subsidising their crops - like they do in most other countries.

The only food we should be importing is the food we cant grow here.  We have strict standards here but we cant enforce them overseas.  Look at the egg recall in the states at the moment, before that it was lettuace that had salmonella or e coli.

We also need proper labeling standards - i want to know where my food is from - packaged in Australia sounds good - but that does not tell me where what is inside the package is from.   And fresh should mean fresh - and it cant be fresh if its being imported.

Our government needs to invest in us - we lose so many projects to overseas companies because the money they need cant be raised here.  Its the same with Mining - we allow our mines to be operated by companies that are not owned by Australian Companies - and they take their profits overseas.   Why cant an Australian company in partnership with the government operate these mines - surely that is an investment that we would like to see our taxes spent on.  

[*Yibida*]

The blokes are off fishing this weekend & I can't go. Mongrel!!

What was stopping you going ubb's ?

[*Ubbie Max*]

Archery Yib. I've gotta get some practice into me. I've had a pinched nerve in my neck & it made it difficult to shoot arrows. I'm going to a Chyro now & it's much better.

So I've got to get back into form with the bows.

[*Yibida*]

Pity it's against the law to spear in fresh water, you coulda got some archery practice and take home a trout.... kill two birds so to speak...

[*Ubbie Max*]

Yeah. I have a bow set up for bow fishing but it is an offence in NSW to bow fish in fresh waters, pity as I'd love to nail the European Carp that are on the increase in fresh water.

They are great fun on fly or light gear using sweet corn as bait. They carry on like underwater bull dozers.

[*Yibida*]

Yeah me and a mate go up to Eildon weir occasionally and decimate the carp population... some are as big as sheep !

[mandurahmum]

Maybe the government needs a ozroundtable of their own.   One where we the people can have their 2 cents worth on major issues and ideas can be shared.  After all the smartest people in Australia are probably not politicans or their advisors.  

I love watching the abc show - Big Ideas - it is fantastic and a real eye opener.  They have discussions on almost everything from global warming (last nights was about carbon tax) to boat people.  And the people talking aren't politicians - most you and I have never heard about - but gee they really know what they are talking about.  I almost changed my mind about global warming - the speaker was that convincing - and boy - he backed up what he said in a manner that most people would understand.

But I think it shows that our government thinks we are all too stupid to really understand most things.  They never bother to fully tell us why they believe their policies are better or why the others is worse.  They take cheap shots at one another instead.  They should spend more time convincing us how things will affect us and why things need to be done.  Only on major issues though.

I think most people will agree that the way they all act in Parliament is disgusting - we would not allow that sort of behaviour in our children - but we allow them to act like that.  They dont even have the decency to pretend they are discussing anything important

[Poddy]

Mandi, I don't know what your views are on climate change and the so call man made global warming.

Whatever your views may be , I suggest that you do your own research and I know that you will come to a logical conclusion

[Poddy]

I am of the opinion that the vast majority of people get sucked in by the media hype and the propaganda machines of people or groups with self satisfying ulterior motives. Some people have a genuine excuse because their time is limited by other factors, however those people should not just repeat what they have been misguidedly spoonfed as gospel truth.
There is a saying that if you hear something often enough it must be truth. WRONG. Misinformation and lies remain what they are regardless of how often they are repeated and regardless of who the people are that repeat them. In fact repeating something that is told to you and you have not checked it's validity is fraught with foolishness and only reflects back on the orator.

[*Yibida*]

My take on this whole global warming thing is unless our future actions are based on thousands of years of recorded data, then they are only acting on a knee jerk reaction..

How would anyone know if these changes happen every 1000 ? 2000? 10,000 ? years ??? and then resume back to normal conditions ?

the data they are using put into perspective in the scheme of things is 5 minutes in our earths life time..

[Poddy]

Oh there is much more to it than meets the eye Yibs.

It really is a wonderful insight into the workings of the propanda machine and data manipulation to achieve a desired result, that being any form of tax that people will swallow.

It is in the self interest  of quite a lot  of groups of to 'prove' that it is man made to further their own ends in a lot of ways.

For instance in none of the data put forward to support 'man made global warming' do you find any mention of Sun Spot activity or Solarwind which in fact are the two major factors in driving our weather.

But don't take my word for it, research it, the internet is a wonderful tool

[*Yibida*]

I have researched why they think Mars is a desolate planet now... solar radiation from the sun !.. it literally wore away the atmosphere over thousands or millions of years which was similar to earth... to what mars is now.. and I personally believe this is whats happening to earth.. and no one can do anything about it.... 

[Poddy]

Here is a thing to think about, would it still be the same theory if there there was funding to arrive at a different conclusion?

Want a different result?

Easy peasy, just throw money at it

[mandurahmum]

I believe that the earth is changing all the time, and that includes the climate, and I believe that its been happening since the planet was formed.

I do think we need to cut down our levels of pollution - as should everyone - and try and take better care of the environment in general. 

I think green energy is the way of the future, whether it be solar, wind, wave or whatever, and I think we are in a good place to take advantage of any or all of them.

I dont think I would support a carbon tax at the moment - I have yet to be convinced that this would really help.

[Poddy]

By green energy I assume you are referring to renewable energy.

That great big nuclear furnace that we revolve around is the SOLE source of ALL energy that ever was and ever will on our planet barring a collision with another cosmic mass, in which case it would be the extinction of our species if the mass was of fairly large proportions.

All the energy sourced that you have mentioned as, we our selves, Mandi originate in that nuclear furnace and or ones like it.

Believe it or not, you, or at least your constituent parts, were made inside a star.
You, I and every thing you have ever seen, touched, smelled, tasted and heard, is made of Starstuff down to the last atom EVERY atom.
Every last calorie of energy, regardless of what form it takes, that ever was and ever will be in existence is Starstuff.

Matter IS energy it can not be created or destroyed by ANY means.
The best we can hope to do is transform matter and release some of that energy in a form that we find useful.

I agree that we should use sustainable energy sources but to say that our energy input is being rapidly depleted is nonsense.
Our energy resources will only be depleted when the Sun winks out, that is a VERY long way off.
 

[mandurahmum]

I'm sorry - i am going to admit - you lost me.

I agree that we should use sustainable energy sources but to say that our energy input is being rapidly depleted is nonsense.

But i did not say that.  I think renewable energy is the way of the future thats all, I think that the way we use energy has not changed for a while, and its time to evolve to the next level.  One of my sons friends is studying engineering at Uni and he is currently learning about them, and its exciting.  I know people with solar panels that get a refund from the electricty company each bill, and I think - thats gotta be good.  Maybe if all buildings had solar panels...  Maybe all cars will be electric, and instead of petrol stations, we will have little electricty refueling depots - run on solar energy.

I do think we have some really smart people working on these things, I would like to see a little more money being invested in the research on these projects rather than on ' committees'  Imagine if the money spent on Copenhagen was given to Universities for research.

Its time to move forward and take action

[*r3830*]

Mum.... just going back to an earlier comment regarding the behaviour of our politicians in parliament....

I think it was Paul Keating - speaking personally with one John Hewson outside parliament..... I can't quote the comment - but it was along the lines of 'You know that you don't take seriously what is said in there don't you..... it's a game, nothing more'.

That would amount to all the insults which were often traded across the floor of the house. On a personal note, both Tony Abbott and Julia Gillard really are close friends..... and think a lot of each other. It's the way of adversarial politics here that often precludes their friendly interactions from the public view.

[wyzeguy60]

"I dont think I would support a carbon tax at the moment - I have yet to be convinced that this would really help."
"
well mum, the greens alliance has all but assured us of a carbon tax. And I cannot begin to think how this will effect us all personally and also at a business / manufacturing level. Our last 3 power bills have all topped $600.00. Last year they we considered a terrible bill at over $300.00. Next year they could be $900.00 - who knows. I cannot afford this. We have already talked about getting rid of the freezer and air conditioner and just putting up with the heat and inconvenience. We have also got rid of 2 fish tanks ( tropical ) and fitted energy saving globes throughout. Computers are put to sleep at night and no unnecessary appliances are left on yet our power bill still doubled. Usage was down 22 % on same time last year yet it still doubled.

At a business level it is a simple process. They pass on the extra costs to the consumer so everything made / manufactured / grown / transported / produced goes up. Welcome to the next 3 years and beyond.

So in simplistic terms it works like this.

Put on a carbon tax.

1 - consumer pays
2 - business pays
3 - less disposable income
4 - less purchasing power
5 - job losses as businesses go slow
5 - higher unemployment
6 - raise taxes to help bottom line
7 - less people to pay and less businesses to pay
8 - new taxes, eg. pollution on motor vehicle tax or death taxes etc
9 - more people struggle, fall over or go bankrupt.
10 - more businesses fold - more unemployment
11 - increase mining tax - hare we go again
12 - they move offshore - more out of work and yes - less taxes coming in from mining sector
13 - gov runs out of money - borrows from china
14 - more deals with china with cheap exports and trade deals
15 - cannot repay debt - don't want to go there
and so it goes.

[Poddy]

Wyze,
You have accurately described the tip of the iceberg, and yes, it is the tip of the iceberg.

The increase in energy prices has been disguised in many forms, put on a carbon tax and some people will use less energy, increases energy costs and people will again use less energy.
People are forced by economic means to consume less tradition energy.

You have to ask the question, WHY?

Simple answer is that we have all but depleted all fossil fuel resources.
Oil? All but gone, what is left is hoarded by the rich and powerful, that will happen with coal and every other deletable fossil energy resources.

Solution? Tell people that they are killing the planet with pollution by using those forms of energy.

Why not just tell them that cheap energy is on its last legs?

[*r3830*]

You know..... there was a time when gas meters came with a coin attachment.... and worked on a user pays method. When yuor credit ran out... so did your gas. Wyze - I relate to your comments well regarding high electricity bills. We presently have an arrangement with Integral Energy, who deduct $150 / FELAFELEN from my bank account. Perhaps it is a sign of the times that they suggest we increass this deduction to $190 / FELAFELEN. That of course translates to just shy of $400 / month.... for electricity! So, our Bimonthly bill is expected to be around the $800 or so...... and this is prior to any Carbon Tax.

Speaking seriously - it is becoming a viable alternative to re-enter the user pays system by way of our 10KVA petrol generator. We really don't need electricity for 24hrs / day!

[Poddy]

I have just finished doing some tests on on a one square meter amorphous solar panel.

The average energy collectred by this panel is 65 watt/hours, average collection time was around 8 hours per day.

So 65 W/H X 8hours = 520 W/H per day

I use electricity sparingly and yet my average daily use is 17 kW/h, it would take around 35 of these panels to make me self sufficient in energy usage.

A rough estimate of the cost of being self reliant energy wise is around the $40,000-$45,000 mark.

So before you embark on the solar energy track do your sums
Do your OWN sums and don't get conned by the 'experts'

The definition of an expert is:-
X is the unknown factor and a spurt is a drip under pressure

[shyer]

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/news/opinion/tax-policy-devised-by-party-that-is-green-with-envy/story-e6frg6zo-1225913534872

The greens want more than a new tax called carbon tax. They want to turn the clock back to one horse and cart per family. The reality is taxing the income rich sends them offsore or into early retirement offshore. Why work if the goverment makes more than you do ?

Increasing company tax moves companies offshore.

Death duties take money from hard workers which is capital left, to the best investment the deceased saw. Instead Goes to the govenment which wastes it on pork barrells , perks, and pollies super. The very rich never paid death duties the assets were already offshore , or in a trust already given to receipient.

[*wheels*]

The blame game continues. This is the poor bloke that Labor says cost them votes!!

http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2010/09/03/3001509.htm

Dad admits plea that cost Labor was untrue

Mr Murphy claimed he had been waiting two years for a specialist doctor to diagnose his son's learning difficulties, prompting Mr Sullivan to say: "What parent would wait two years to get a child, who they believe has a disability, to a specialist?".

Now Mr Murphy says he wrongly claimed he had been waiting two years for a specialist doctor to diagnose his son's learning difficulties, instead of the more accurate time frame of about a year.


Who cares if it was two years or a year, still way too long to wait for a specialist! How can the Labor party be blaming this poor guy?

[*r3830*]

The Greens / ALP Agreement

With this agreement, the Greens have done very well. It's not every day that a minor party gets handed a government to play with.



http://www.abc.net.au/news/documents/scribd.htm?id=36708980&key=key-19d07m28rwmyz7i74wn1

[mandurahmum]

does anyone know who is controlling the senate yet?  They may be our only hope.

[*smee*]

the senate doesnt really enter into it as that doesnt change till next July ..... there is a very good chance we will be back at the polls before then

[mandurahmum]

Mum.... just going back to an earlier comment regarding the behaviour of our politicians in parliament....

I think it was Paul Keating - speaking personally with one John Hewson outside parliament..... I can't quote the comment - but it was along the lines of 'You know that you don't take seriously what is said in there don't you..... it's a game, nothing more'.

That would amount to all the insults which were often traded across the floor of the house. On a personal note, both Tony Abbott and Julia Gillard really are close friends..... and think a lot of each other. It's the way of adversarial politics here that often precludes their friendly interactions from the public view.

But its not a game..... They are supposed to be dealing with the country's future - not point scoring.  But gee I did like Keating

[*CountessA*]

Mandurahmum, I take it that your primary concerns (or some of them) are the lack of infrastructure, funding, etc., that affect your area...?

I agree it is outrageous that this scarcity is the case. I would like whoever ends up as our government to take seriously this problem, and others like it. This IS a wide country with long stretches of remote areas, far from cities and amenities. That should not mean country areas or remote areas where people are living, have formed communities and require basic amenities (such as hospitals, ambulances, centres of education, etc.) should be ignored.

r3830, that is rather a frightening document. "To play with" seems exactly right...

[Poddy]

R numbers that Agreement has so many and so large holes in it that I pity anyone who may have to use it, in desperation, if they run out of toilet paper.
It has sealed the fate of the Greens as well as the ALP, from this day forth they will be locked together in a death embrace.

Just goes to show that desperation breeds strange bedfellows, although I must add the they deserve each other

[mandurahmum]

Mandurahmum, I take it that your primary concerns (or some of them) are the lack of infrastructure, funding, etc., that affect your area...?

I agree it is outrageous that this scarcity is the case. I would like whoever ends up as our government to take seriously this problem, and others like it. This IS a wide country with long stretches of remote areas, far from cities and amenities. That should not mean country areas or remote areas where people are living, have formed communities and require basic amenities (such as hospitals, ambulances, centres of education, etc.) should be ignored.

r3830, that is rather a frightening document. "To play with" seems exactly right...

Yes but it is the same in a lot of country towns, and we have it a lot better here than most.  And this is due to Alcoa - they have pumped a lot of money into this town.  But the surrounding areas are not as lucky - over here  a lot of local hospitals closed, and once the hospital closes, towns seem to die.  Now I am sure most were not cost effective, but when your town only has a few doctors and one gets sick, the hospital is the only place to get treatment.

I also think that WA in general has not benefited from the mining boom.  This is probably more to do with the state government wasting money - and that is regardless of which party is in power - they both did it.  So if I was the Federal government - i probably would not give us a fair share either.  I also think that as a state we have been very short sighted - and that is why the infrastructure is falling apart.  We needed a new major hospital 20 years ago - they are only now building it - but it will be too small when it opens.

[Poddy]

1.3 The Greens will oppose any motion of no confidence in the government from any non-Greens
member.
Direct quote from the Agreement

This would have to be the stupidest clause in any agreement ever signed.

It does however allow the Greens to put forward the no confidence motion making them the scapegoat.

Let me demonstrate please.

Let us assume that the coalition are the ones who form government.
Let us also assume that Labor for some reason puts forward a motion of no confidence in the government (coalition), according to the terms of that legally binding agreement the greens MUST oppose the motion.
Now I ask you, stupid or not?? OH DEAR!! What a predicament.
Bobby, Jules what HAVE you done????

[*r3830*]

Bobby, Jules what HAVE you done????

An interesting question Poddy.... given that Ms Gillard is supposedly an industrial law specialist and trotted out as a primary ALP 'best' negotiator....- and Mr Swann claims to be many things.... most of which I am unaware. Haven't seen any comment from Paul Keating on this one as yet.

And mum.... agree, when a country town loses its hospital, it does slowly die..... as do the residents of the area.

[That Varieties Gal]

Yes but it is the same in a lot of country towns, and we have it a lot better here than most.  And this is due to Alcoa - they have pumped a lot of money into this town.  But the surrounding areas are not as lucky - over here  a lot of local hospitals closed, and once the hospital closes, towns seem to die.  Now I am sure most were not cost effective, but when your town only has a few doctors and one gets sick, the hospital is the only place to get treatment.

I also think that WA in general has not benefited from the mining boom.  This is probably more to do with the state government wasting money - and that is regardless of which party is in power - they both did it.  So if I was the Federal government - i probably would not give us a fair share either.  I also think that as a state we have been very short sighted - and that is why the infrastructure is falling apart.  We needed a new major hospital 20 years ago - they are only now building it - but it will be too small when it opens.
[/quote]

mumsie
when Beatty got into power in QLD (long time back now)
Health had huge injections of $$
(needed it after being squeezed for years by Jo's stale old greedy government)
anyways - turned out that his wife was a nurse
i think that sometimes people in health have to be talking to the right people to get seen and heard
i always believed that because Beatty personally understood the plight of the health worker, that he actively supported health improvements

pity that the mining boom and the big hype about how much it 'benefits Australia' is in reality another of the myths where the country gets bled dry

sometimes the single sad story doesn't cut it
you need risk assessments, trend patterns of issues and get a legal accountability line of attack and then kick them up the big A with it - i figure all of that is happening?
closing hospitals and post offices, is a trend and I agree - it reflects the withdrawal of a public sector and it is a sign of impending death of small towns (and often bad social economics - i work in health and we are often expected to operate like private business versus a socially & not for profit responsible organisation)
I feel for you as I have lived in places like the Gulf of Carpentaria and we relied entirely on the RFDS for any medical attention and then you only saw the Doc if you were half dead, the nurses did all the care, scripts etc (and did it well!!)

[Poddy]

Numbers,
I have not much liking for Paul but I am sure that he has the good sense to distance himself from such stupidity as exhibited bu some members of his political party of choice