Oz Round Table
The Oz Round Table boards => The Round Table => Topic started by: Poddy on August 26, 2010, 03:49:50 AM
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The current state of affairs is a disgraceful and potentially fatal blow to our supposedly democratic system.
Are we to have our elected members of parliament dictated to by a very few power hungry individuals?
Can you imagine the situation where one militant dictator is handed a loaded gun to hold at the heads of one side or the other?
‘So you don’t like green huh? BANG !!! take that’
Imagine the next parliamentary term with NOTHING being achieved because all the time has been spent in ‘negotiations’ to appease the outlandish whims of a very small greedy minority.
I say let us all go back to the polling booths with the lessons that we have learned.
I would also like to see the preferential system of elections scrapped.
It is laughable that a party that has the majority percentage primary votes is not able to form government.
Government should include ALL elected members and each member should vote on any issue according to the wishes of the people they represent.
If a policy stinks it would not pass into law just because the party that crafted it happens to have the majority vote.
TIME FOR A CHANGE AUSTRALIA !!
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I say call another election
dealing with these 5 alleged independents will be like trying to herd cats
call another election with NO preferences
most votes wins
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No more campaining, no more political bullshit, a total media blackout on politics, and just a re-vote I wonder what would happen to the power hungry MPs clamouring for a strangle hold?
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Will be a bluddy sight more interesting if the independents support Labor...... Hope the people have LCP members in their electorates!
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Or better still, who the Australian Public prefer as Prime Minister!
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I couldn't' agree more....bring on another election and I honestly believe it won't be long before there is one.
I was so angry Sunday morning on my long drive home from town......how could Australians be so bloody stupid.......... how could the power of the country end up in the hands of so few.......how could over half a million people manage donkey votes.......how could..........
and then I realised that it won't be long before we are back at the polls, so bring it on!
One more minor thing, whilst realising the predicament real Julie must have found herself in a few months ago, it wasn't a matter of life and death, it was a matter of winning an election (or so they thought), surely standing moral ground would have meant more than winning an election. Or was all that talk of standing by Kevy just that...talk!
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She's not the messiah , she's a very naughty girl !!
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elantra,
It appears that the people spoke last saturday on that one...... How many seats did Labor win... and lose?
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It all sounds like
American crap
to me!!!!
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It all sounds like
American crap
to me!!!!
It's politics ... and the same problems exist, no matter how you make a burger: The truth is irrelevant, it's only the perceptions that matter - because that's what people 'buy' on.
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The mind boggles
http://bigpondnews.com/articles/TopStories/2010/08/27/Greens_could_serve_as_Abbott_ministers_505189.html
The minister for tree hugging?
Minister for disruption?
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THIS IS SO GOOD
Are you a Labour, a Liberal, or a National Voter?
Here is a little test that will help you decide.
The answer can be found by posing the following question:
You're walking down a deserted street with your wife and two small children. Suddenly, an Islamic Terrorist with a huge knife comes around the corner, locks eyes with you, screams obscenities, praises Allah, raises the knife, and charges at you.
You are carrying a Barrett 50 cal model 107 and you are an expert shot. You have mere seconds before he reaches you and your family. What do you do?
THINK CAREFULLY THEN SCROLL DOWN:
Labour Voter’s Answer:
Well, that's not enough information to answer the question!
Does the man look poor or oppressed?
Have I ever done anything to him that would inspire him to attack?
Could we run away? What does my wife think? What about the kids?
Could I possibly swing the gun like a club and knock the knife out of his hand? What does the law say about this situation?
Does the gun have appropriate safety built into it?
Why am I carrying a loaded gun anyway, and what kind of message does this send to society and to my children?
Is it possible he'd be happy with just killing me?
Does he definitely want to kill me, or would he be content just to wound me?
If I were to grab his knees and hold on, could my family get away while he was stabbing me? Should I call 000?
Why is this street so deserted? We need to raise taxes, have community clean -up day. Can we make this a happier, healthier street that would discourage such behaviour.
I need to debate this with some friends for a few days and try to come to a consensus.
The Government should form a committee to investigate why this is happening to me.
This is all so confusing!
Liberal's Answer:
BANG!
National's Answer: (or possibly Shooters & Fishers party, definately the Ubbie Max Party :-))
BANG! BANG! BANG! BANG! BANG! BANG!
Click.... (Sounds of reloading)
BANG! BANG! BANG! BANG! BANG! BANG!
Daughter: 'Nice grouping, Daddy!' 'Were those the Copper Tips or Hollow Points?! '
Son: 'Can I shoot the next one Dad?!'
Wife: ‘You’re not taking that to the Taxidermist!
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Ubbs..... Where do I get the application to join your party?????
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I think Ubbie is negotiating to have applications included in every box of ammunition over 30 caliber...
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As a labor supporter - I am with the nationals on that.
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And these are the people who wiil be given a loaded gun (balance of power)?????
Check out the body language OMG !!!! is this a polly??
Start digging your graves now
http://video.au.msn.com/watch/video/9raw-katter-blasts-media/xh6azmr?from=imbot_en-au_general
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Having dealt with the mass media when they have an agenda, they are after sales and stuff fairness or the truth.
You do not know what lead up to that outburst, the hours edited out and the bits all stuck together out of context. Anyone can be made to sound like an foolish, agressive, raving madman. And if they have a temper like Latham or Katter easiest thing in the world.
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being ex nth qld
katter has always been known as a bit rabbid
but a real character and he gets the votes
probably because he is truely committed to the stockman, farmer, the bloke on the street and the like
and he is not shy to getting his hands dirty
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I am quite aware what can be done with editing an interview, for a number of years, when I worked for the ABC, I was the technical person responsible for editing the raw material from all sorts of interviews that the reporters obtained.
On occasions I was requested to edit out portions that changed the whole flavour of the interview, I refused, and so did the other technical people.
I have no doubt that that activity does happen from time to time, sadly.
If you were to watch that segment closely you will find that there were NO edits in that segment and that it was contiguous.
The body language of that person told 1000 times more about the person than the actual words, and the words are a reflection of the type of person that man is. The body language backs it up he stabbed that reporter multiple times or did you not notice?
Watch the segment again.
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I've never had to engage in anything involving Bob Katter, but I've always considered him rather outspoken. He is certainly not the stereotypical politician - the silver-tongued devil kind - but comes across more like the pissed off aussie knockabout who's had enough ... and has had the support of his electorate to get voted into parliament, for just that reason.
While that clip was unedited, it came across to me that his objections were very clear - the media ignored the plight of people like those Katter represents - even to the point of ignoring suicides ... and now they come chasing him with inane questions. Who wouldn't be unimpressed?
What is quite apparent is that he is quite purposeful in representing his constituents and passionate about the relevent issues. (interesting approach - do you think it will catch on?)
Honest and refreshing in its own way, the true concern is how will he work in a constructive way with 149 other members of parliament? Whilst it is essential to represent one's own electorate, it must be done in a way that still benefits the country as a whole - and that can be challenging.
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I'm with ubbie Max :youaretheman: :rifle: :pepsi:
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being ex nth qld
katter has always been known as a bit rabbid
but a real character and he gets the votes
probably because he is truely committed to the stockman, farmer, the bloke on the street and the like
and he is not shy to getting his hands dirty
I think he is a bit like Wilson Tuckey - they may not be slick but they are regular people. Both have gone into politics to try and help their community and the community at large. And just like Pauline they say what they think. Now I dont always agree with what they say, but its refreshing to see a Politician that does not have a speech writer and a stylist telling them what to do.
I personally think that is wrong with most Politicians - they dont say what they really think, they say what they think we want them to say, or worse the way the party wants them to do. We dont see nearly enough Conscience votes on issues, and we dont see them sticking up for what they truly believe. it seems that they dont have the courage to agree with the opposition party (whomever it maybe) when a good idea is presented.
Thats what I think we want our Politicians to do - cross the floor when its warranted. Work together to make this country the best it can be, regardless of what their party line is. Too many politicians forget that they dont work for their party - they work for us. We are the ones that elect them to represent our electorate.
I think that in the future there will be more independants in Parliament - because we are so sick of 'Politics'. And I think that is what this election has proven.
And Bob Katter is right - the media snubbed the independants and the other minority parties during the election - focusing only on the 2 major parties, but now they are clammering for their opinions - I would tell them to get stuffed too
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The Devil made me do it!!
OOps,, hang on, I'm the Devil!
http://www.optuszoo.com.au/news/189432/liberal-identified-as-making-rambo-style-devil-call.html (http://www.optuszoo.com.au/news/189432/liberal-identified-as-making-rambo-style-devil-call.html)
sorry
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what a load of carry on over nothing
if this bloke cant handle someone phoning and identifying themselves as the devil then he will be pathetic in parliment .... I too hate people vetting my calls , if I phone and ask to speak to someone and the answerer asks "who's calling" I invariably make up a humerous answer , its none of their business who is calling until I get to speak to who I rang to speak to and then will will know this Mr Cockshott is so full of his own importance now its getting rediculous ....I quite liked the bloke when he first got elected and spoke a week ago , now he is about as appealing as genitile warts !!!
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I regard the current situation - at least as reported in the media - as a hopeless mess.
On the current showing, the Independents are flexing their muscles and playing mind games (or so it seems), rather than refraining from speaking inappropriately to the media, dangling carrots and threatening sticks, generally behaving like blackmailing ooh-la-las. What happened to the initial idea of no Independent being able to be "bought" by being handed a Ministerial position? What happened to the greater good of the country being their main motivation? What happened to the idea of a stable government? The overwhelming impression being given now (I believe) is that any government formed with these little dictators having such unprecedented say-so is bound to be unstable - because of THEM, not because of either the Labour or Liberal parties.
I feel as though we're in a sinking boat, and three men are hanging on to the cork plugs, pulling them apart bit by bit, and loudly declaiming that they want faster and cheaper corks for everyone...
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what a load of carry on over nothing
if this bloke cant handle someone phoning and identifying themselves as the devil then he will be pathetic in parliment .... I too hate people vetting my calls , if I phone and ask to speak to someone and the answerer asks "who's calling" I invariably make up a humerous answer , its none of their business who is calling until I get to speak to who I rang to speak to and then will will know this Mr Cockshott is so full of his own importance now its getting rediculous ....I quite liked the bloke when he first got elected and spoke a week ago , now he is about as appealing as genitile warts !!!
Now see I think its just polite to tell the caller who you are when you phone. I think its pathetic that Heffernan did not identify hiimself properly - and I would have hung up on him too
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you are correct MM it is polite to say some thing like hello this is Smee speaking may I speak to Mr Cockshott please ....but if the caller doesnt identify himself and just says Hello may I speak to Mr Cockshott please ...it is actually impolite for the call answerer to then say "who is calling" as this implies that depending on who is calling depends on whether Mr Cocksott is available ....which is rude and bad business manners
At least this is what (amongst other things) a business telephone etiquette company told all the staff that I sent to them for a telephone manner confrence
but the point is even if Heffernan was wrong by saying he was the Devil ...was it neccessary for
Mr Cockshott or whatever his name is to burst into tears and say the whole shebang has been compromised ....it didnt really matter one iotta did it ? unless his daft missus actually thought the caller was the devil ??? ....... fair dinkum the bloke is so full of his own importance its going to be his undoing mark my words ......... JMO !!!!
"'But what is of deeper concern is ... is this a strategic move to try and destabilise this whole process?"
just how is naming youself as the devil a strategic move to destabilise ????
What an absolute Knob Jockey !!
and what the f### has Rambo got to do with it ???
But you dont think he over reacted ?
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I agree that this has been blown out of proportion.
Vetting phone calls is fairly normal business practise nowadays and I would expect a Politician to know this - all their offices do this too.
But this was their home, and as i expect they were getting a lot of phone calls from the media etc, I think it was fair enough for the wife to ask who was calling. he should have just said who he was, and there would have been no problem.
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I have just heard that Heffernan reffered to himself as the devil because Cockshott referred to himself as playing the devils advocate
and never the less a bloke refers to himself as the devil and the wife hangs up .....
so why isnt that the end of the story? why does Mr Cockshott feel the need to tell the media hey someone rang and told the war office they were the devil ?
Heffernan texted him virtually straight away and said it was him after trying to ring back and be unable to get through .....either way its not important ...its definately not newsworthy and this bloke is making a clown of himself ,
all he wants is to be the contstant centre of media attention and believe me it will be his down fall
the other 2 stooges are already getting Jack of him and he will end up making enemies in parliment ( in either / both / all parties ) if he doesnt settle down and then no one will want to work with him ....again JMO
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I would ask why the media ran with this story in the first place. Because I do think they helped blow this story up, thats what they do.
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Mandurahmum, "too right" as the saying goes.
The media are not helping the mess at all. I feel like hunting down all of the media involved and locking them in a room where the most exciting story is how long it takes an ant to shove a tiny grain of sugar from one end of the room to the other.
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yes I agree ...the media should not have run with the story ...its not newsworthy ....but unless they have Mr Hotshotts phone tapped then who went crying to them ? Him Mr Hotshott did ... unneccessary self promotional crapola !!!!!
and Parlimentarians already hate what happens when shite gets leaked to the media .... This tosser will get labelled as a telltale to the media and no one will confide in him ..... he will or has shat in his own nest .......
again I say he will be his own down fall
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I agree Mandi,
The media don't give a rats, so long as it sells papers it's fair game
Pretty sad state of affairs huh?
As I read in one comment in response to one of the media reports
'Lets go back to the poles', hmmm.... i would love to see see some pollys at the 'poles' some at the south pole and some at the north pole.
A fresh election would probably break this deadlock and send a message to the would be dictators.
I would love to see the results of those would-be dictators in a fresh election :)
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The media certainly does not just report the news anymore - they sensationalise everything and even make up stuff.
A few years back a neighbour was charged with murder, we had the media camped out for a couple of days and then when other things happened - they were back. The neighbour in question lived opposite me, and I had to ask on several occassions for the media to move thier cars - they had blocked me in. I was hassled for a comment - and gave them one - not the one they wanted. In the end I had to call the police - just to get out of my driveway.
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Quite right.
'News' is a self pertetuating growth industry, no news? Make some.
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They are just lazy nowadays - they seem to copy each others story - instead of investigating stories for themselves.
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Sadly, the media give the majority of their readers what they want, sensational crap, if it was not sensational they sensationalize it.
The majority of readers need stimulus in their otherwise uneventful boring lives.
It is just a shame that it has to be imposed on the minority.
I sift through all the flotsam and jetsome to find something even remotely resembling newsworth with an iota of credibility, rarely do I find anything :(
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A media beat-up...? Who would have thought...........?
Hopeless.
It is, as has been said, just a means of making money. Objectivity, truth and fairness are the first casualties.
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I also was thinking along the lines of the pomposity of these 'muscular' independents. If they don't sort themselves out and support the creation of a government - we'll be back to the polls ... and their constituents might think differently about them!!
Strutting around like peacocks - they should take a long walk off a short pier.
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Isn't this pandering to the would-be dictators a bit much Julia?
Do you think echoing the word 'paradigm' is going to win you any brownie points?
Scraping the bottom of the barrel a bit, but heck any straw is OK if you are drowning.
Ms Gillard told the National Press Club on Tuesday a Labor government would 'build a new paradigm for regional development'.
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its just about all over for Julia and her team
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Key MP shuns offer from Labor
http://www.smh.com.au/federal-election/key-mp-shuns-offer-from-labor-20100831-14fk2.html?autostart=1
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Deal with Greens shows Labor is desperate to cling to power: Abbott
Mr Abbott said Prime Minister Julia Gillard's decision to agree to the Greens proposals to ditch her controversial Citizen's Assembly plan on climate change showed she was prepared to "junk" election commitments.
http://www.smh.com.au/federal-election/deal-with-greens-shows-labor-is-desperate-to-cling-to-power-abbott-20100901-14mql.html
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Telcos lob broadband grenade: Abbott may be right
http://www.smh.com.au/technology/technology-news/telcos-lob-broadband-grenade-abbott-may-be-right-20100901-14mnc.html
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Gillard has broken first promise
http://au.news.yahoo.com/election/a/-/article/7861909/gillard-has-broken-first-promise-abbott/
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I dont know why the coalition wont share the costings of their election promises with the rest of Australia - we deserve to know
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The final tally
Labor Party won, 72 seats.
Liberal Party won, 66 seats.
National Party won, 7 seats.
Greens won, 1 seat.
Others won, 4 seats.
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Don'tcha just love the preferential voting system Trala!! ???
How to get votes even if those votes are supposedly for someone else.
Pray tell what was the primary vote count for all parties concerned?
By the way when is it going to be official? The renaming I mean.
What will the title be Green Labor, Socialist Green Labor, Como Green Labor or maybe Bobby will have his wicked way and drop all other titles and just go with Green.
After all Julia DID promise parliamentary reforms or is that re forms?
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Here is the primary vote count as requested.
Labor 150 4,504,452
Liberal 109 3,589,419
Greens 150 1,364,492
LNP 30 1,098,133
National 16 439,755
http://www.abc.net.au/elections/federal/2010/guide/parties.htm (http://www.abc.net.au/elections/federal/2010/guide/parties.htm)
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What will the title be Green Labor, Socialist Green Labor, Como Green Labor or maybe Bobby will have his wicked way and drop all other titles and just go with Green.
Potential in a number of the above names Poddy. An interesting concept, given that Labor and the Greens are pretty much chalk and cheese on policy. As I recall, there was always a price involved with getting into bed with the devil. And stability?.... should be interesting. Might just have to resurrect my Curly avatar in dealing with this matter..... just for the sake of clarification.
Can't wait until the "Labor supports same sex marriage" adds begin to run. That should impress the Labor purists no end. Who ever would have thought that Julia would get into bed with Bob? And... the reverse also applies. Ooooh.... did I say that?
New party slogan: "Labor..... in power at any cost". Rings rather true.
And..... buggerit.... just where did the Greens themselves get their mandate from to stand over the Australian people? One seat in the house of reps does not a government make.... even on elantra's above quoted figures!
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R numbers surely you are not hinting that they have gender identity confusion syndrome are you?
Hmmm...... food for postulation.
Maybe that explains why Bob persued gay law reforms in Tasmania with such vitality.
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Good morning Poddy!
gender identity confusion
Love that description. I always had a strange inkling that the REAL Julia was actually a bloke named Cyril who had a fetish for wearing ladies clothes and red wigs! (met her down the Cross about thirty years ago) Now, were I right - therein lies the explanation of the new found cohesion.... along with the husky voice. Might have to bounce off an email to the ASP (Australian Sex Party) for clarification. (strange name for a political party don't you think? Named after a snake? Progressive..... no doubt!) :roflmao:
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One really does have to question the motivating force behind some of the more bizaar policies that pollys hatch dont you think?
Lets hope that gender identity confusion syndrome (GICS) is not made compulsory!!!!
Lesbian, Gay, Bisexual, Transgender & Intersex (LGBTI)
Greens will end marriage discrimination
Media Release | Spokesperson Bob Brown
Saturday 14th August 2010, 1:21pm
in Gay MarriageLesbian, Gay, Bisexual, Transgender & Intersex (LGBTI)
Australian Greens Leader Bob Brown says the Greens will work hard with the next government to get a conscience vote on Greens legislation to remove discrimination against same-sex couples in Australian marriage laws.
Speaking in Hobart, Senator Brown called on both Julia Gillard and Tony Abbott to agree to a conscience vote in the next 12 months in both houses of Parliament.
"If that happened, I reckon the law would change. That would bring us up with other countries like Mexico, Argentina, Canada and South Africa," Senator Brown said.
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Perhaps this item should have gone under the election thread..... but it does apply quite well here also.
The national policy agenda which nobody voted for
http://www.thepunch.com.au/articles/the-national-policy-agenda-which-nobody-voted-for/?referrer=email&source=Punch_nl&emcmp=Punch&emchn=Newsletter&emlist=Member (http://www.thepunch.com.au/articles/the-national-policy-agenda-which-nobody-voted-for/?referrer=email&source=Punch_nl&emcmp=Punch&emchn=Newsletter&emlist=Member)
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Australian Greens Leader Bob Brown says the Greens will work hard with the next government to get a conscience vote on Greens legislation to remove discrimination against same-sex couples in Australian marriage laws.
Speaking in Hobart, Senator Brown called on both Julia Gillard and Tony Abbott to agree to a conscience vote in the next 12 months in both houses of Parliament.
"If that happened, I reckon the law would change. That would bring us up with other countries like Mexico, Argentina, Canada and South Africa," Senator Brown said.
Strange isn't it. If I go out to a club and I don't like the venue, I'll leave. I won't make it my mission in life to cause or force the club to change its established ways and beliefs simply to satisfy my personal preferences.... with total and complete disregard to the other members of the club who are happy with their venue. To do so would - to my way of thinking place me in an assumed position of being better than everyone else. Personally. I'd like to believe that I'm an equal with the other individuals around me. Equal being in what I can contribute to the place and the people around me.... but NOT as an elitist!
The simple message to Bob Brown would be - If you don't like the venue - form your own - but don't interfere with mine.
The alternative advice would be that Mr Brown could stick his self-centred aspirations well and truly up his ARRRRR - the man annoys me!
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Perhaps he has a burning desire to justify his 'Gender Identity Confusion Syndrome'.
I am puzzled as to why the word dichotomy has not yet emerged from the mouths of the would-be dictators I expected it to pop up well before this stage.
Now if it does pop up then we cam be sure that at least some of those involved are reading our thread hahahaha
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I do not support the notion that a relationship (whether formalised or not) between homosexuals is equivalent or can be equivalent to marriage.
Marriage has a traditional meaning and function which, even in past cultures where homosexuality was virtually a given within the society, explicitly differs from homosexual relationships. To equate "gay marriage" with "enlightenment" or "coming up with" or "doing away with discrimination" is, in my view, a gross misperception (and certainly a gross effort at misdirection). It has some similarity with insisting that it's discrimination against jelly trifle not to allow it to be called pavlova, or demanding that mushrooms be allowed to be marketed as strawberries, because not allowing them to be so called would be discrimination.
If a man and man wish to live their lives together, or a woman and woman wish to live their lives together, in a sexual relationship, they're not being stopped - but it is almost unbelievably offensive to the very meaning of marriage in all its historical, traditional, societal, cultural and familial aspects to insist that its meaning be stripped and reworked so that it no longer means what it did mean, just so that it can then be applied as an umbrella term to ALL sexual relationships between adults consisting of a vow to live their lives together. That is not the meaning of marriage. Marriage is a far more specific term, and historical texts from every culture with which I'm familiar and have studied spell this out quite explicitly.
I don't apologise for this view, and I see nothing discriminatory in it. We have vocabulary (and dictionaries to render meaning of words) BECAUSE there are differences between things, notions, behaviours, ideas, objects, relationships, etc. This is not an amorphous world. And I object to the outrageous misuse of the very real concept of discrimination by its incorrect application to a recognition of distinct meaning and distinct differences in meaning and purpose and historical validity.
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Remember folks you heard the word dichotomy here first :)
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Tessa I would be willing to wager that 99.9% of all peoples would share your views, I certainly do :)
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Just to clarify.
I would hate to be accused of ungrounded innuendo
Bob Brown
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Robert James Brown (born 27 December 1944), is an Australian senator, the inaugural Parliamentary Leader of the Australian Greens and was the first openly gay member of the Parliament of Australia.
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Countess,
There is nothing in your thoughts that require apology. Agree completely with your views. (and it's wonderful to see you here! No more acrobatics.. OK?)
But - from what I see, the drive behind the change under the Marriage Act for the inclusion of same sex couples is not about marriage itself, but moreso around beating the system... under the veiled claim of equality. I watched the young Greens man who won the seat of Melbourne recently... (Mr Bandt I think?) His description applying to marriage was summarised in his views as a restriction on the ability to love another person. So, therefore.... he believes that you can't love someone as much in a shared relationship - as you can if you're married? If that is his view.... he has certainly missed something far more important than a marriage certificate. Certainly not my understanding of many who share in Defacto relationships.
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Poddy - I understand that Mr Brown has absolutely no problem with inyerendo! Blast! Forgot the spellchecker.....again.
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What Mr. Brown does in his private life is entirely up to him but lets hope that he does not formulate legislation and then try to force it down every ones throat just because of his own personal preferences.
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Agree completely...... but hold extreme doubts on that outcome, unfortunately.
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Here is the primary vote count as requested.
Labor 150 4,504,452
Liberal 109 3,589,419
Greens 150 1,364,492
LNP 30 1,098,133
National 16 439,755
http://www.abc.net.au/elections/federal/2010/guide/parties.htm (http://www.abc.net.au/elections/federal/2010/guide/parties.htm)
Thank you for that.
In some seats both the Liberal party & the National party had candidates running up against each other
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Gee,, it is all in the eye of the beholder, DER!
http://www.smh.com.au/federal-election/7bn-hole-in-abbotts-policy-costings-20100901-14nrb.html?autostart=1 (http://www.smh.com.au/federal-election/7bn-hole-in-abbotts-policy-costings-20100901-14nrb.html?autostart=1)
http://www.smh.com.au/federal-election/the-10b-question-why-abbott--and-treasury-are--so-far-apart-on-his-costings-20100902-14ozw.html (http://www.smh.com.au/federal-election/the-10b-question-why-abbott--and-treasury-are--so-far-apart-on-his-costings-20100902-14ozw.html)
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I think we should all be suspicious.
http://www.smh.com.au/federal-election/windsor-suspicious-of-coalition-after-black-hole-revelation-20100902-14nxz.html (http://www.smh.com.au/federal-election/windsor-suspicious-of-coalition-after-black-hole-revelation-20100902-14nxz.html)
http://www.smh.com.au/federal-election/treasury-wipes-10b-off-lib-costings-20100901-14nmw.html?autostart=1 (http://www.smh.com.au/federal-election/treasury-wipes-10b-off-lib-costings-20100901-14nmw.html?autostart=1)
But then it's only ten billion Andrew Rob, will bumble & stumble, he will start to sweat, even his glasses aren't on straight!
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Gee,, it is all in the eye of the beholder, DER!
http://www.smh.com.au/federal-election/7bn-hole-in-abbotts-policy-costings-20100901-14nrb.html?autostart=1 (http://www.smh.com.au/federal-election/7bn-hole-in-abbotts-policy-costings-20100901-14nrb.html?autostart=1)
http://www.smh.com.au/federal-election/the-10b-question-why-abbott--and-treasury-are--so-far-apart-on-his-costings-20100902-14ozw.html (http://www.smh.com.au/federal-election/the-10b-question-why-abbott--and-treasury-are--so-far-apart-on-his-costings-20100902-14ozw.html)
Personally I think was disgusting for the Liberal Party not to submit his costings before the election. The Australian people had a right to know what his promises would cost us.
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Interesting isn't it! I'm still waiting for the costings associated with the great big NBN. Has the news of the wireless 4G network reached you yet?
But really - why worry? The Greens under the bed will fix that up quick smart.
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Shockwave sent through mining heartland after ALP-Greens alliance
Senior mining executives warned that the Labor-Greens alliance had the potential to reignite the advertising war with the government because of perceptions in the industry that the Greens' policies were anti-mining.
Whackooooo - Let the games begin!
http://www.theaustralian.com.au/national-affairs/shockwave-sent-through-mining-heartland-after-alp-greens-alliance/story-fn59niix-1225913036486?referrer=email (http://www.theaustralian.com.au/national-affairs/shockwave-sent-through-mining-heartland-after-alp-greens-alliance/story-fn59niix-1225913036486?referrer=email)
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It just keeps getting worse & worse for the MAD MONK!!
http://www.optuszoo.com.au/news/191319/abbott-pm-hopes-cop-double-blow.html (http://www.optuszoo.com.au/news/191319/abbott-pm-hopes-cop-double-blow.html)
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Gee,, it is all in the eye of the beholder, DER!
http://www.smh.com.au/federal-election/7bn-hole-in-abbotts-policy-costings-20100901-14nrb.html?autostart=1 (http://www.smh.com.au/federal-election/7bn-hole-in-abbotts-policy-costings-20100901-14nrb.html?autostart=1)
http://www.smh.com.au/federal-election/the-10b-question-why-abbott--and-treasury-are--so-far-apart-on-his-costings-20100902-14ozw.html (http://www.smh.com.au/federal-election/the-10b-question-why-abbott--and-treasury-are--so-far-apart-on-his-costings-20100902-14ozw.html)
Personally I think was disgusting for the Liberal Party not to submit his costings before the election. The Australian people had a right to know what his promises would cost us.
They could not afford to put them in because of the 11 BILLION DOLLAR BLACK HOLE
what were they going to cut????
Wont tell you that.
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Pact puts Labor brand and Gillard leadership on line
The once great Labor Party passes into history with this deal to ride into government. This agreement, with its five signatures, declares that "stable and effective" government now depends upon a formal Labor-Greens alliance.
The entire world knows this deal has only one objective: to build momentum to sway the independents into duplicating such an agreement and vote Labor into office.
In terms of costings and policy, Gillard has made few concessions. Much of the agreement deals with process. On climate change, it implies that Labor and the Greens will work together. But it makes no firm commitments beyond the principle of pricing carbon. The option to dump the people's assembly is a plus. Gillard has given no ground on the mining tax, same-sex marriage, Afghanistan or economic policy. Yet this policy hollowness just makes the entire deal more dubious. Why should Labor enter such a hollow agreement that allows the Coalition to entrench the idea of a Labor-Green alliance? The independents know the Greens are supporting Labor on confidence and supply.
GEEEEEEZZZZZ - and I was stupid enough to vote Labor! Government at what cost one might ask? ...... It seems ...ANY! EPIC FAIL!!!
http://www.theaustralian.com.au/news/opinion/pact-puts-labor-brand-and-gillard-leadership-on-line/story-e6frg6zo-1225913036640 (http://www.theaustralian.com.au/news/opinion/pact-puts-labor-brand-and-gillard-leadership-on-line/story-e6frg6zo-1225913036640)
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GREAT BIG NEW BLACK HOLE
http://www.smh.com.au/federal-election/treasury-wipes-10b-off-lib-costings-20100901-14nmw.html (http://www.smh.com.au/federal-election/treasury-wipes-10b-off-lib-costings-20100901-14nmw.html)
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I have very deeply lost respect for the Labor party.
As I mentioned earlier, I'm a swinging voter; or rather... I was.
At the moment, I'm becoming more and more a Liberal or National supporter. Ms Gillard has truly failed to impress me. I had more respect for Kevin Rudd.
I am becoming more impressed with Tony Abbott, who is handling some unfair criticism with grace and strength. It remains to be seen if he will be "bendable" to the will of the Independents (compromising on issues to gain power) - because if that occurs, I will rethink my current position.
I want our Prime Minister to be strong and honest. I don't mind if our Prime Minister makes the occasional mistake; I'd rather that than a fake exterior. I do not want our Prime Minister to be inherently disloyal and manipulative. I also don't want our Prime Minister to be ABLE to be manipulated by others. Influenced, yes. Convinced by evidence or logical arguments, yes. But manipulated... no.
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I have a Qwestion on the NBN.
Pray tell is Julia in slight of hand mode?
Are we supposed to be so besotted and dazzled by the promise of 'Lightening Fast Internet' that we can't see the shaft coming?
1. NBN government funded (taxpayer's money) to be eventually handed over to private sector. Who will have shares in the handed over NBN?
2. Under the NBN who will have connections first? Will it be the rural areas ( where it is needed most) or the urban areas where most of the voters are?
Rural independents WAKE UP !!! you are so full of your own over inflated personal egos and your power grasping schemes that you can't see the wood for the trees. Are you so infatuated by the limelight that you are forgetting the voters who have empowered you to act on their behalf?
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The news that Wilkie has decided to support the Labor government is interesting...
He says that Mr Abbott offered $1B in hospital funding for Tasmania, but that he turned it down. I'm sorry; I find that unethical. That offer was made in good faith, not as something that could be boasted about by Mr Wilkie, in my view trying to flaunt his apparent integrity. It is ANYTHING but demonstrative of integrity to reveal such details in public.
The Liberals apparently met Mr Wilkie's "demands", but Mr Wilkie still decided he would support Labor. This demonstrates beyond question that he was not negotiating in good faith with Tony Abbott. He had already decided which government he would support. There was nothing (I deduce from the facts) that could have been offered by the Liberals which would change his mind. Why negotiate then?
It was not negotiation in good faith.
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Ubbie Max for PM.
Don't forget.
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Smee Enterprises Nigeria Division for treasurer !!!! (formerley trading as Bottom of the Harbour financial Planners )
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If Ubbie were the mooted Leader, the hung parliament would be... hanged from the highest yardarm.
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I'll sort em out. Any independant not behaving would see the butt of the beloved Barrett 50 cal.
I'll can preference voting, first past the post only.
Money back if your horse doesn't run a place.
Training in firearms to commence in Kindergarten. The little blighters must learn to shoot at an early age.
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Please be careful when bringing up such subjects... There is a natural affinity between the concepts of 'hanged, drawn and quartered' and 'political process'.
Kev was the last ... who will be next?
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Oke Doke. Replace hanging with Keelhauling.
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Only slightly better ... requires water.
But I appreciate your sensitivity.
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Yep, one of the beauties of keelhauling is you can't hear them squark & carry on when they are underwater, which they are during most of the keelhauling time.
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One could be in a spot of bother keelhauling a politician, though.
You could be up on a charge of (attempted) murder - with no case to plea manslaughter - because the prosecution could confidently state it would be common knowledge that any politician couldn't keep their mouth shut.
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That's what the Barrett 50 cal is for, if they survive the keelhauling (which they shouldn't if it's carried out correctly) kaboom goes the Barrett!
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Australian Greens Leader Bob Brown says the Greens will work hard with the next government to get a conscience vote on Greens legislation to remove discrimination against same-sex couples in Australian marriage laws.
Speaking in Hobart, Senator Brown called on both Julia Gillard and Tony Abbott to agree to a conscience vote in the next 12 months in both houses of Parliament.
"If that happened, I reckon the law would change. That would bring us up with other countries like Mexico, Argentina, Canada and South Africa," Senator Brown said.
Strange isn't it. If I go out to a club and I don't like the venue, I'll leave. I won't make it my mission in life to cause or force the club to change its established ways and beliefs simply to satisfy my personal preferences.... with total and complete disregard to the other members of the club who are happy with their venue. To do so would - to my way of thinking place me in an assumed position of being better than everyone else. Personally. I'd like to believe that I'm an equal with the other individuals around me. Equal being in what I can contribute to the place and the people around me.... but NOT as an elitist!
The simple message to Bob Brown would be - If you don't like the venue - form your own - but don't interfere with mine.
The alternative advice would be that Mr Brown could stick his self-centred aspirations well and truly up his ARRRRR - the man annoys me!
hmmm but that is exactly what we did to the Aboriginal people
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Oh and keelhauling a polly would add to a global temperature rise (especially in the case of one in particular) the hot air would cause a rise in the ocean temperature and add to greenhouse gases.
The phenomenon of the hole in the ozone layer over Tasmania has finally been explained. The oral methane generated by some of the local pollys has depleted the layer to such an extent that the offending pollys have been 'touched by the sun', explaining their bizarre behaviour.
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Why is this not mentioned, by you guys??
http://www.smh.com.au/federal-election/abbott-defends-black-hole-treasury-costings-20100902-14o3s.html?autostart=1 (http://www.smh.com.au/federal-election/abbott-defends-black-hole-treasury-costings-20100902-14o3s.html?autostart=1)
http://www.smh.com.au/polls/federal-election/black-hole/20100902-14nyw.html (http://www.smh.com.au/polls/federal-election/black-hole/20100902-14nyw.html)
Dont you feel cheated?
whats your excuse?
His costing were out by eleven billion dollars.
Can you understand that?
His costing were out by eleven billion dollars.
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The news that Wilkie has decided to support the Labor government is interesting...
He says that Mr Abbott offered $1B in hospital funding for Tasmania, but that he turned it down. I'm sorry; I find that unethical. That offer was made in good faith, not as something that could be boasted about by Mr Wilkie, in my view trying to flaunt his apparent integrity. It is ANYTHING but demonstrative of integrity to reveal such details in public.
The Liberals apparently met Mr Wilkie's "demands", but Mr Wilkie still decided he would support Labor. This demonstrates beyond question that he was not negotiating in good faith with Tony Abbott. He had already decided which government he would support. There was nothing (I deduce from the facts) that could have been offered by the Liberals which would change his mind. Why negotiate then?
It was not negotiation in good faith.
I am glad he turned down the hospital funding. it makes me sick that politicians think they can gain support by offering money.
This is exactly what happened in WA last election. The nationals formed government with the Liberals at a huge cost to the rest of the state. Royalties for regions is such a scam - and you just have to look at how the money is being spent. $250,000 for a singing toilet in Bunbury - and it only has 2 toilets.
This was not discussed during the election, we only heard about it after the Liberal Government bought the support of the Nationals. They reckon it will cost the rest of the state around 2,805 million over 4 years.
Now I agree that the regional areas of WA were neglected for a very long time, but I disagree with how this money is being wasted.
My city has been allocated money through this scheme. $50,000 to upgrade a park (the caterpillar park). Why so much money for a tiny little park that gets hardly any use. Will this money help attract more people to it - No because its in the industrial area.
$125,000 for Concept design for Old Mandurah Traffic Bridge replacement - but no money to actually replace the worn out bridge that looks like it is about to fall down, and has done for over 20 years now. We have been seeing plans for this bridge for over 30 years - but the only thing that has ever been done is to give it a new paint job. This bridge is extremely important to us - it is one of 2 ways that connect Mandurah to the southwest and for most of us residents the only way I can get into the town.
so you think we are happy that this money is being spent - we are not. We have a hospital that has pathetic lighting in the car park, and a lot of falls have happened because of this. It is just a scary place to go at night, because all the druggies go there to get their free needles once the chemists are closed. (We love this too)
I do not think the independants should be offered any money for special projects in their electorates - we are supposed to all be equal
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Why is this not mentioned, by you guys??
http://www.smh.com.au/federal-election/abbott-defends-black-hole-treasury-costings-20100902-14o3s.html?autostart=1 (http://www.smh.com.au/federal-election/abbott-defends-black-hole-treasury-costings-20100902-14o3s.html?autostart=1)
http://www.smh.com.au/polls/federal-election/black-hole/20100902-14nyw.html (http://www.smh.com.au/polls/federal-election/black-hole/20100902-14nyw.html)
Dont you feel cheated?
whats your excuse?
His costing were out by eleven billion dollars.
Can you understand that?
His costing were out by eleven billion dollars.
because most of the posters are Liberal supporters - and wont say a bad thing about them. But I will
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The departments of Treasury and Finance, in a report handed to the three key rural independent MPs yesterday, found the Coalition policies would improve the budget bottom line by just $4.5 billion - not the $11.5 billion claimed.
Labor said it would improve the bottom line by $44 million over four years, while the departments said the savings would be $106 million.
Liberal Improvement $4.5 billion
Labor Improvement $106 million
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Why is this not mentioned, by you guys??
http://www.smh.com.au/federal-election/abbott-defends-black-hole-treasury-costings-20100902-14o3s.html?autostart=1 (http://www.smh.com.au/federal-election/abbott-defends-black-hole-treasury-costings-20100902-14o3s.html?autostart=1)
http://www.smh.com.au/polls/federal-election/black-hole/20100902-14nyw.html (http://www.smh.com.au/polls/federal-election/black-hole/20100902-14nyw.html)
Dont you feel cheated?
whats your excuse?
Can you understand that?
His costing were out by eleven billion dollars.
Please don't take this personally elantra it is aimed at all labor and greens voters.
His costing were out by between 7 and 11 billion dollars so not even treasury can decide - lol.
I am prepared to speak and I am damn well angry how pathetic some people are - particularly green and independant elected members.
11 billion dollars - well for Flock Sake. And it is an interpretation mind you.
How does that compare to 21 Billion suplus - flocking wasted in 10 months on no hopers and dole bludgers
57 Billion deficit in less than 3 years - oh for gods sake
55 Billion in forward expenditure oh for gods sake including NBN and sucking up to greens and independants with an open cheque book on 11 new programs in a desperate effort to gain power - flocking ginga
Now I know why I always vote Liberal and I am proud of it
I feel sorry for all of you who voted Labor or worse still Greens. My children will be paying for this madness for at least 40 years. Can't you all see this.
I give up
signed a Liberal flocker
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hmmm but that is exactly what we did to the Aboriginal people
Was that also in 2010 MM? Were you there when it occurred?
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Wyze..... Keep your pencil tuned as if the Labor / Green alliance do get in.... there will be an election coming to a place near you, and soon! Stability will only occur if Labor do EVERYTHING that the Greens tell'em to.
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hmmm but that is exactly what we did to the Aboriginal people
Was that also in 2010 MM? Were you there when it occurred?
Of course I was not there, but are you really disputing the fact that we came to this country and immediately started to change it to the way we wanted it.
Actually in this state we are still stealing land from the Aboriginal People, when they dont do what the government wants them to do.
http://au.news.yahoo.com/thewest/a/-/breaking/7868691/wa-govt-to-acquire-gas-precinct-land/ (http://au.news.yahoo.com/thewest/a/-/breaking/7868691/wa-govt-to-acquire-gas-precinct-land/)
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WYSE, it just goes to show how blind those are who do not want to see.
The transition from surplus to deficit was the price that that government paid to gain power; it was a surplus that was handed over from the previous one so there was no problem with squandering it.
Alas it is just a down payment of what is yet to come, I shudder to think what hair brained schemes will be hatched to extract every last drop of this country's life blood to regain and keep power.
Let us examine the so called carbon tax.
How could a tax hope to reduce the waste product of life itself? EVERYONE!!! Stop breathing!!! INDUSTRY stop production!!!!
Do you think it will happen? NO CHANCE!!!
So what has been achieved by that tax OH YES!!! More revenue to squander.
Have we not learned that putting constraints on the populace is a mechanism for control? BIG BOB is watching springs to mind.
What better way of reducing a country to poverty and economic chaos than to tax everything, even the intangible.
Climate change anyone??
How dare it be suggested that we puny insignificant humans can hope to control the nature of a planet’s climate.
How can anyone dare to compare human effort to that of that gigantic orb, the Sun, which is in control of ALL aspects of our existence?
Take for instance the volcanic eruption in Iceland, that NATURAL occurrence spewed more pollution into our atmosphere in a week than all human created carbon and pollution in it’s entire history. Will that be taxed as well? Will taxing that reduce it?
PEOPLE WAKE UP!!! You are in the vice grip of uninformed pollys who have you by the short and curlies. YOU have allowed that to happen, worse YOU have encouraged it by accepting bullshit.
Now look what you have made me do, my economy of words has been stretched to the limit.
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Yes MM - I read that article this morning. I hope the people over there remember that at the state elections when they take place.
Of course I was not there, but are you really disputing the fact that we came to this country and immediately started to change it to the way we wanted it.
Crikey MM.... were you talking 240 Years ago? Doubtful that either of us were here at that time. So just how 'we' changed it... at that time - I don't know.
No - Dirk Hartog reached your western shores in 1616, I think it was. (You could have been a dutchman MM! Although, there is history that the Portuguese may have been here first.) There is also history of cannibalism in that part of the world..... sort of akin to todays modern 'home food delivery' arrangements.
But... Captain Cook won the election is 1770! Keep in mind that the majority of people who came to this country at that time wore chains .... and were certainly not here by choice.
I'm as indigenous (of this land) as the next bloke born here.... and was reminded of that fact by the Aboriginal Elders up in country NSW.
Just a thought.... but how about you people over there stop bringing in these boat tourists who protest and burn down the centres up to your north? LOLOL
The simple fact is - the invasion has never really stopped when you think about it!
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Yes MM - I read that article this morning. I hope the people over there remember that at the state elections when they take place.
Of course I was not there, but are you really disputing the fact that we came to this country and immediately started to change it to the way we wanted it.
Crikey MM.... were you talking 240 Years ago? Doubtful that either of us were here at that time. So just how 'we' changed it... at that time - I don't know.
No - Dirk Hartog reached your western shores in 1616, I think it was. (You could have been a dutchman MM! Although, there is history that the Portuguese may have been here first.) There is also history of cannibalism in that part of the world..... sort of akin to todays modern 'home food delivery' arrangements.
But... Captain Cook won the election is 1770! Keep in mind that the majority of people who came to this country at that time wore chains .... and were certainly not here by choice.
I'm as indigenous (of this land) as the next bloke born here.... and was reminded of that fact by the Aboriginal Elders up in country NSW.
Just a thought.... but how about you people over there stop bringing in these boat tourists who protest and burn down the centres up to your north? LOLOL
The simple fact is - the invasion has never really stopped when you think about it!
I think that most voters over here are sick of Barnett - our gas prices are now the highest in the country - and our electricty prices are up there too. Its a shame that the Labor party over here is as weak as pee.
I think that the reason why we have a hung parliament is because deep down we know that neither party is worthy of leading this great country. Both parties seem to have forgotten that we hold the power in this country - not them - they are supposed to do what we want and what we feel is in the best interest of the country.
They should start listening to us and stop telling us
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"They should start listening to us and stop telling us"
Spot on Mum!
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Mum - that would be the best response on this topic to date.
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Bob Katter to release list of demands
http://www.theaustralian.com.au/national-affairs/capital-circle/bob-katter-to-release-list-of-demands/story-fn59nqgy-1225913169487 (http://www.theaustralian.com.au/national-affairs/capital-circle/bob-katter-to-release-list-of-demands/story-fn59nqgy-1225913169487)
Over the weekend Labor Treasurer Wayne Swan refused to rule out rebuilding the tariff walls that Labor began tearing down in the 1980s - a process continued by the Coalition under John Howard.
But in a speech at the National Press Club on Wednesday, Prime Minister Julia Gillard ruled out rebuilding the tariff walls.
Mr Katter has a long history of criticising the free market, saying it has gutted Australia’s manufacturing base and hurt farmers.
Why... Oh Why..... Oh Why is this so. I just soooo don't understand the thinking in the present tariff arrangements!
And - it's a comment from an Independent .... therefore it is open to ALL POLITICAL OPINIONS ! Sort of a non-denominational statement you could say.
Why is it that under the Free Trade Agreement - we DON'T impose any tariffs to protect our own industries.... well, those that are left at least - when all the other signatories apply 49% to protect theirs?
Virtually everything I find these days is made in China. We are importing grain into Australia... NOTE - Australia! Our dairy industry is quickly dying, and we import fruit juice from the US. I've got a mate in the Riverina, NSW who is a Citrus grower. He plows most of his crop back into the ground because he can't find markets for his fruit. Are people aware that we are talking about importing beef into this country? NOTE AGAIN - in Australia!
Once upon a time - not all that many years ago, this country was self-sufficient. It is rapidly headed towards overseas dependency. Goodness knows just what the hell we'll do here in the event of a supplier dispute offshore.
Australian made used to be a title that held pride. It appears that our leaders - irrespective of who they are or their allegiances - are hell bent on destroying that notion.
Thoughts??
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Bring back Customs duties to protect Australian industries & farming. It would also be a revenue raiser for the government & then just maybe a few of the taxes that are hurting many Australians could be eased but, there goes one of those flying pigs!
:pigsfly:
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I've got the trusty '08 at the ready Ubbs!
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The people in control is a very idealistic concept, if only it were true :(
The only control the vast majority of the population have is in putting an X in a printed square in good faith, with the hopes that it may contribute in some small way to what they believe is the way that the country they live in should be governed.
There are no guarantees that what has been promised them by their representative will eventuate and invariably the promises are empty words, designed to attain a level of power and personal ego gratification that they aspire to.
We have seen what lengths they go to if those aspirations are threatened even in the smallest way.
The party propaganda machine is a virtual bottomless pit filled to overflowing with resources and those resources are lavished in gaining/ maintaining the vice grip on power.
If only there was a severe degree of penalty for the non deliverance of election promises the situation that exists in our parliamentary at the present time could be kept to a manageable level.
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The people in control is a very idealistic concept, if only it were true :(
The only control the vast majority of the population have is in putting an X in a printed square in good faith, with the hopes that it may contribute in some small way to what they believe is the way that the country they live in should be governed.
There are no guarantees that what has been promised them by their representative will eventuate and invariably the promises are empty words, designed to attain a level of power and personal ego gratification that they aspire to.
We have seen what lengths they go to if those aspirations are threatened even in the smallest way.
The party propaganda machine is a virtual bottomless pit filled to overflowing with resources and those resources are lavished in gaining/ maintaining the vice grip on power.
If only there was a severe degree of penalty for the non deliverance of election promises the situation that exists in our parliamentary at the present time could be kept to a manageable level.
sound like your starting to see the light!
I like it.
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"the trusty '08"Good stuff numbers, I'm ready also.
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Ubbs.... I was thinking.... yes, I know that's NOT GOOD - but.... Are you still open to that earlier job application.... you know... the speaker, co-located with the trusty barrett? Think we'll be in serious need of your services from here on in.
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I'm free. Barrett is loaded & cocked.
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CRIKEY Ubbs.... how I could have used that statement regarding Bob Brown earlier!
Anyhow..... good to know. Let me know if I can assist with a reference for ya!
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Hi guy's, how did the shooters and fishing party go ?....
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I dunno Yib. I hope they did well in the senate but, the media doesn't bother to keep us up to date on senate figures.
I guess all will be revealed in July next year when the new senators take their seats.
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Trala !!, I saw the 'light' a long time ago, under circumstances that you can not even imagine in your wildest dreams.
The 'light' is bright and clear with no distortion or blurry edges. Light travels in a straight line and is a constant, well under most circumstances anyway, it can be reflected, bent, and altered in colour to a certain extent.
As long as you are aware of what is altering it you can ascertain it's integrity.
The trick is to see through the smoke and mirrors and follow it back to its originating source.
Sadly that ability has not been learned by the vast majority and so they believe what they think they see and hear.
My hopes for the continuation of our species and our country is the lifting of the veil and seeing with clarity and REALITY.
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Whackoooo! How are ya Yibs!
I believe half went fishing and the other half hunting. Still waiting on the results. Amazing really - in our time of electronics!
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Your probly right numbers ... I'd rather be fishing or hunting any day... LOL
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The blokes are off fishing this weekend & I can't go. Mongrel!!
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Bob Katter to release list of demands
http://www.theaustralian.com.au/national-affairs/capital-circle/bob-katter-to-release-list-of-demands/story-fn59nqgy-1225913169487 (http://www.theaustralian.com.au/national-affairs/capital-circle/bob-katter-to-release-list-of-demands/story-fn59nqgy-1225913169487)
Over the weekend Labor Treasurer Wayne Swan refused to rule out rebuilding the tariff walls that Labor began tearing down in the 1980s - a process continued by the Coalition under John Howard.
But in a speech at the National Press Club on Wednesday, Prime Minister Julia Gillard ruled out rebuilding the tariff walls.
Mr Katter has a long history of criticising the free market, saying it has gutted Australia’s manufacturing base and hurt farmers.
Why... Oh Why..... Oh Why is this so. I just soooo don't understand the thinking in the present tariff arrangements!
And - it's a comment from an Independent .... therefore it is open to ALL POLITICAL OPINIONS ! Sort of a non-denominational statement you could say.
Why is it that under the Free Trade Agreement - we DON'T impose any tariffs to protect our own industries.... well, those that are left at least - when all the other signatories apply 49% to protect theirs?
Virtually everything I find these days is made in China. We are importing grain into Australia... NOTE - Australia! Our dairy industry is quickly dying, and we import fruit juice from the US. I've got a mate in the Riverina, NSW who is a Citrus grower. He plows most of his crop back into the ground because he can't find markets for his fruit. Are people aware that we are talking about importing beef into this country? NOTE AGAIN - in Australia!
Once upon a time - not all that many years ago, this country was self-sufficient. It is rapidly headed towards overseas dependency. Goodness knows just what the hell we'll do here in the event of a supplier dispute offshore.
Australian made used to be a title that held pride. It appears that our leaders - irrespective of who they are or their allegiances - are hell bent on destroying that notion.
Thoughts??
Its pretty disgusting isn't it. The free trade agreement was probably a great theory - but it has not really worked. Our farmers cant compete with the internationals because they dont have the government subsidising their crops - like they do in most other countries.
The only food we should be importing is the food we cant grow here. We have strict standards here but we cant enforce them overseas. Look at the egg recall in the states at the moment, before that it was lettuace that had salmonella or e coli.
We also need proper labeling standards - i want to know where my food is from - packaged in Australia sounds good - but that does not tell me where what is inside the package is from. And fresh should mean fresh - and it cant be fresh if its being imported.
Our government needs to invest in us - we lose so many projects to overseas companies because the money they need cant be raised here. Its the same with Mining - we allow our mines to be operated by companies that are not owned by Australian Companies - and they take their profits overseas. Why cant an Australian company in partnership with the government operate these mines - surely that is an investment that we would like to see our taxes spent on.
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The blokes are off fishing this weekend & I can't go. Mongrel!!
What was stopping you going ubb's ?
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Archery Yib. I've gotta get some practice into me. I've had a pinched nerve in my neck & it made it difficult to shoot arrows. I'm going to a Chyro now & it's much better.
So I've got to get back into form with the bows.
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Pity it's against the law to spear in fresh water, you coulda got some archery practice and take home a trout.... kill two birds so to speak...
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Yeah. I have a bow set up for bow fishing but it is an offence in NSW to bow fish in fresh waters, pity as I'd love to nail the European Carp that are on the increase in fresh water.
They are great fun on fly or light gear using sweet corn as bait. They carry on like underwater bull dozers.
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Yeah me and a mate go up to Eildon weir occasionally and decimate the carp population... some are as big as sheep !
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Maybe the government needs a ozroundtable of their own. One where we the people can have their 2 cents worth on major issues and ideas can be shared. After all the smartest people in Australia are probably not politicans or their advisors.
I love watching the abc show - Big Ideas - it is fantastic and a real eye opener. They have discussions on almost everything from global warming (last nights was about carbon tax) to boat people. And the people talking aren't politicians - most you and I have never heard about - but gee they really know what they are talking about. I almost changed my mind about global warming - the speaker was that convincing - and boy - he backed up what he said in a manner that most people would understand.
But I think it shows that our government thinks we are all too stupid to really understand most things. They never bother to fully tell us why they believe their policies are better or why the others is worse. They take cheap shots at one another instead. They should spend more time convincing us how things will affect us and why things need to be done. Only on major issues though.
I think most people will agree that the way they all act in Parliament is disgusting - we would not allow that sort of behaviour in our children - but we allow them to act like that. They dont even have the decency to pretend they are discussing anything important
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Mandi, I don't know what your views are on climate change and the so call man made global warming.
Whatever your views may be , I suggest that you do your own research and I know that you will come to a logical conclusion :)
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I am of the opinion that the vast majority of people get sucked in by the media hype and the propaganda machines of people or groups with self satisfying ulterior motives. Some people have a genuine excuse because their time is limited by other factors, however those people should not just repeat what they have been misguidedly spoonfed as gospel truth.
There is a saying that if you hear something often enough it must be truth. WRONG. Misinformation and lies remain what they are regardless of how often they are repeated and regardless of who the people are that repeat them. In fact repeating something that is told to you and you have not checked it's validity is fraught with foolishness and only reflects back on the orator.
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My take on this whole global warming thing is unless our future actions are based on thousands of years of recorded data, then they are only acting on a knee jerk reaction..
How would anyone know if these changes happen every 1000 ? 2000? 10,000 ? years ??? and then resume back to normal conditions ?
the data they are using put into perspective in the scheme of things is 5 minutes in our earths life time..
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Oh there is much more to it than meets the eye Yibs.
It really is a wonderful insight into the workings of the propanda machine and data manipulation to achieve a desired result, that being any form of tax that people will swallow.
It is in the self interest of quite a lot of groups of to 'prove' that it is man made to further their own ends in a lot of ways.
For instance in none of the data put forward to support 'man made global warming' do you find any mention of Sun Spot activity or Solarwind which in fact are the two major factors in driving our weather.
But don't take my word for it, research it, the internet is a wonderful tool :)
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I have researched why they think Mars is a desolate planet now... solar radiation from the sun !.. it literally wore away the atmosphere over thousands or millions of years which was similar to earth... to what mars is now.. and I personally believe this is whats happening to earth.. and no one can do anything about it....
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Here is a thing to think about, would it still be the same theory if there there was funding to arrive at a different conclusion?
Want a different result?
Easy peasy, just throw money at it :)
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I believe that the earth is changing all the time, and that includes the climate, and I believe that its been happening since the planet was formed.
I do think we need to cut down our levels of pollution - as should everyone - and try and take better care of the environment in general.
I think green energy is the way of the future, whether it be solar, wind, wave or whatever, and I think we are in a good place to take advantage of any or all of them.
I dont think I would support a carbon tax at the moment - I have yet to be convinced that this would really help.
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By green energy I assume you are referring to renewable energy.
That great big nuclear furnace that we revolve around is the SOLE source of ALL energy that ever was and ever will on our planet barring a collision with another cosmic mass, in which case it would be the extinction of our species if the mass was of fairly large proportions.
All the energy sourced that you have mentioned as, we our selves, Mandi originate in that nuclear furnace and or ones like it.
Believe it or not, you, or at least your constituent parts, were made inside a star.
You, I and every thing you have ever seen, touched, smelled, tasted and heard, is made of Starstuff down to the last atom EVERY atom.
Every last calorie of energy, regardless of what form it takes, that ever was and ever will be in existence is Starstuff.
Matter IS energy it can not be created or destroyed by ANY means.
The best we can hope to do is transform matter and release some of that energy in a form that we find useful.
I agree that we should use sustainable energy sources but to say that our energy input is being rapidly depleted is nonsense.
Our energy resources will only be depleted when the Sun winks out, that is a VERY long way off.
:)
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I'm sorry - i am going to admit - you lost me.
I agree that we should use sustainable energy sources but to say that our energy input is being rapidly depleted is nonsense.
But i did not say that. I think renewable energy is the way of the future thats all, I think that the way we use energy has not changed for a while, and its time to evolve to the next level. One of my sons friends is studying engineering at Uni and he is currently learning about them, and its exciting. I know people with solar panels that get a refund from the electricty company each bill, and I think - thats gotta be good. Maybe if all buildings had solar panels... Maybe all cars will be electric, and instead of petrol stations, we will have little electricty refueling depots - run on solar energy.
I do think we have some really smart people working on these things, I would like to see a little more money being invested in the research on these projects rather than on ' committees' Imagine if the money spent on Copenhagen was given to Universities for research.
Its time to move forward and take action
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Mum.... just going back to an earlier comment regarding the behaviour of our politicians in parliament....
I think it was Paul Keating - speaking personally with one John Hewson outside parliament..... I can't quote the comment - but it was along the lines of 'You know that you don't take seriously what is said in there don't you..... it's a game, nothing more'.
That would amount to all the insults which were often traded across the floor of the house. On a personal note, both Tony Abbott and Julia Gillard really are close friends..... and think a lot of each other. It's the way of adversarial politics here that often precludes their friendly interactions from the public view.
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"I dont think I would support a carbon tax at the moment - I have yet to be convinced that this would really help."
"
well mum, the greens alliance has all but assured us of a carbon tax. And I cannot begin to think how this will effect us all personally and also at a business / manufacturing level. Our last 3 power bills have all topped $600.00. Last year they we considered a terrible bill at over $300.00. Next year they could be $900.00 - who knows. I cannot afford this. We have already talked about getting rid of the freezer and air conditioner and just putting up with the heat and inconvenience. We have also got rid of 2 fish tanks ( tropical ) and fitted energy saving globes throughout. Computers are put to sleep at night and no unnecessary appliances are left on yet our power bill still doubled. Usage was down 22 % on same time last year yet it still doubled.
At a business level it is a simple process. They pass on the extra costs to the consumer so everything made / manufactured / grown / transported / produced goes up. Welcome to the next 3 years and beyond.
So in simplistic terms it works like this.
Put on a carbon tax.
1 - consumer pays
2 - business pays
3 - less disposable income
4 - less purchasing power
5 - job losses as businesses go slow
5 - higher unemployment
6 - raise taxes to help bottom line
7 - less people to pay and less businesses to pay
8 - new taxes, eg. pollution on motor vehicle tax or death taxes etc
9 - more people struggle, fall over or go bankrupt.
10 - more businesses fold - more unemployment
11 - increase mining tax - hare we go again
12 - they move offshore - more out of work and yes - less taxes coming in from mining sector
13 - gov runs out of money - borrows from china
14 - more deals with china with cheap exports and trade deals
15 - cannot repay debt - don't want to go there
and so it goes.
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Wyze,
You have accurately described the tip of the iceberg, and yes, it is the tip of the iceberg.
The increase in energy prices has been disguised in many forms, put on a carbon tax and some people will use less energy, increases energy costs and people will again use less energy.
People are forced by economic means to consume less tradition energy.
You have to ask the question, WHY?
Simple answer is that we have all but depleted all fossil fuel resources.
Oil? All but gone, what is left is hoarded by the rich and powerful, that will happen with coal and every other deletable fossil energy resources.
Solution? Tell people that they are killing the planet with pollution by using those forms of energy.
Why not just tell them that cheap energy is on its last legs?
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You know..... there was a time when gas meters came with a coin attachment.... and worked on a user pays method. When yuor credit ran out... so did your gas. Wyze - I relate to your comments well regarding high electricity bills. We presently have an arrangement with Integral Energy, who deduct $150 / FELAFELEN from my bank account. Perhaps it is a sign of the times that they suggest we increass this deduction to $190 / FELAFELEN. That of course translates to just shy of $400 / month.... for electricity! So, our Bimonthly bill is expected to be around the $800 or so...... and this is prior to any Carbon Tax.
Speaking seriously - it is becoming a viable alternative to re-enter the user pays system by way of our 10KVA petrol generator. We really don't need electricity for 24hrs / day!
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I have just finished doing some tests on on a one square meter amorphous solar panel.
The average energy collectred by this panel is 65 watt/hours, average collection time was around 8 hours per day.
So 65 W/H X 8hours = 520 W/H per day
I use electricity sparingly and yet my average daily use is 17 kW/h, it would take around 35 of these panels to make me self sufficient in energy usage.
A rough estimate of the cost of being self reliant energy wise is around the $40,000-$45,000 mark.
So before you embark on the solar energy track do your sums :)
Do your OWN sums and don't get conned by the 'experts'
The definition of an expert is:-
X is the unknown factor and a spurt is a drip under pressure :)
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http://www.theaustralian.com.au/news/opinion/tax-policy-devised-by-party-that-is-green-with-envy/story-e6frg6zo-1225913534872 (http://www.theaustralian.com.au/news/opinion/tax-policy-devised-by-party-that-is-green-with-envy/story-e6frg6zo-1225913534872)
The greens want more than a new tax called carbon tax. They want to turn the clock back to one horse and cart per family. The reality is taxing the income rich sends them offsore or into early retirement offshore. Why work if the goverment makes more than you do ?
Increasing company tax moves companies offshore.
Death duties take money from hard workers which is capital left, to the best investment the deceased saw. Instead Goes to the govenment which wastes it on pork barrells , perks, and pollies super. The very rich never paid death duties the assets were already offshore , or in a trust already given to receipient.
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The blame game continues. This is the poor bloke that Labor says cost them votes!!
http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2010/09/03/3001509.htm
Dad admits plea that cost Labor was untrue
Mr Murphy claimed he had been waiting two years for a specialist doctor to diagnose his son's learning difficulties, prompting Mr Sullivan to say: "What parent would wait two years to get a child, who they believe has a disability, to a specialist?".
Now Mr Murphy says he wrongly claimed he had been waiting two years for a specialist doctor to diagnose his son's learning difficulties, instead of the more accurate time frame of about a year.
Who cares if it was two years or a year, still way too long to wait for a specialist! How can the Labor party be blaming this poor guy?
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The Greens / ALP Agreement
With this agreement, the Greens have done very well. It's not every day that a minor party gets handed a government to play with.
http://www.abc.net.au/news/documents/scribd.htm?id=36708980&key=key-19d07m28rwmyz7i74wn1 (http://www.abc.net.au/news/documents/scribd.htm?id=36708980&key=key-19d07m28rwmyz7i74wn1)
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does anyone know who is controlling the senate yet? They may be our only hope.
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the senate doesnt really enter into it as that doesnt change till next July ..... there is a very good chance we will be back at the polls before then
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Mum.... just going back to an earlier comment regarding the behaviour of our politicians in parliament....
I think it was Paul Keating - speaking personally with one John Hewson outside parliament..... I can't quote the comment - but it was along the lines of 'You know that you don't take seriously what is said in there don't you..... it's a game, nothing more'.
That would amount to all the insults which were often traded across the floor of the house. On a personal note, both Tony Abbott and Julia Gillard really are close friends..... and think a lot of each other. It's the way of adversarial politics here that often precludes their friendly interactions from the public view.
But its not a game..... They are supposed to be dealing with the country's future - not point scoring. But gee I did like Keating
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Mandurahmum, I take it that your primary concerns (or some of them) are the lack of infrastructure, funding, etc., that affect your area...?
I agree it is outrageous that this scarcity is the case. I would like whoever ends up as our government to take seriously this problem, and others like it. This IS a wide country with long stretches of remote areas, far from cities and amenities. That should not mean country areas or remote areas where people are living, have formed communities and require basic amenities (such as hospitals, ambulances, centres of education, etc.) should be ignored.
r3830, that is rather a frightening document. "To play with" seems exactly right...
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R numbers that Agreement has so many and so large holes in it that I pity anyone who may have to use it, in desperation, if they run out of toilet paper.
It has sealed the fate of the Greens as well as the ALP, from this day forth they will be locked together in a death embrace.
Just goes to show that desperation breeds strange bedfellows, although I must add the they deserve each other :)
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Mandurahmum, I take it that your primary concerns (or some of them) are the lack of infrastructure, funding, etc., that affect your area...?
I agree it is outrageous that this scarcity is the case. I would like whoever ends up as our government to take seriously this problem, and others like it. This IS a wide country with long stretches of remote areas, far from cities and amenities. That should not mean country areas or remote areas where people are living, have formed communities and require basic amenities (such as hospitals, ambulances, centres of education, etc.) should be ignored.
r3830, that is rather a frightening document. "To play with" seems exactly right...
Yes but it is the same in a lot of country towns, and we have it a lot better here than most. And this is due to Alcoa - they have pumped a lot of money into this town. But the surrounding areas are not as lucky - over here a lot of local hospitals closed, and once the hospital closes, towns seem to die. Now I am sure most were not cost effective, but when your town only has a few doctors and one gets sick, the hospital is the only place to get treatment.
I also think that WA in general has not benefited from the mining boom. This is probably more to do with the state government wasting money - and that is regardless of which party is in power - they both did it. So if I was the Federal government - i probably would not give us a fair share either. I also think that as a state we have been very short sighted - and that is why the infrastructure is falling apart. We needed a new major hospital 20 years ago - they are only now building it - but it will be too small when it opens.
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1.3 The Greens will oppose any motion of no confidence in the government from any non-Greens
member.
Direct quote from the Agreement
This would have to be the stupidest clause in any agreement ever signed.
It does however allow the Greens to put forward the no confidence motion making them the scapegoat.
Let me demonstrate please.
Let us assume that the coalition are the ones who form government.
Let us also assume that Labor for some reason puts forward a motion of no confidence in the government (coalition), according to the terms of that legally binding agreement the greens MUST oppose the motion.
Now I ask you, stupid or not?? OH DEAR!! What a predicament.
Bobby, Jules what HAVE you done????
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Bobby, Jules what HAVE you done????
An interesting question Poddy.... given that Ms Gillard is supposedly an industrial law specialist and trotted out as a primary ALP 'best' negotiator....- and Mr Swann claims to be many things.... most of which I am unaware. Haven't seen any comment from Paul Keating on this one as yet.
And mum.... agree, when a country town loses its hospital, it does slowly die..... as do the residents of the area.
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Yes but it is the same in a lot of country towns, and we have it a lot better here than most. And this is due to Alcoa - they have pumped a lot of money into this town. But the surrounding areas are not as lucky - over here a lot of local hospitals closed, and once the hospital closes, towns seem to die. Now I am sure most were not cost effective, but when your town only has a few doctors and one gets sick, the hospital is the only place to get treatment.
I also think that WA in general has not benefited from the mining boom. This is probably more to do with the state government wasting money - and that is regardless of which party is in power - they both did it. So if I was the Federal government - i probably would not give us a fair share either. I also think that as a state we have been very short sighted - and that is why the infrastructure is falling apart. We needed a new major hospital 20 years ago - they are only now building it - but it will be too small when it opens.
[/quote]
mumsie
when Beatty got into power in QLD (long time back now)
Health had huge injections of $$
(needed it after being squeezed for years by Jo's stale old greedy government)
anyways - turned out that his wife was a nurse
i think that sometimes people in health have to be talking to the right people to get seen and heard
i always believed that because Beatty personally understood the plight of the health worker, that he actively supported health improvements
pity that the mining boom and the big hype about how much it 'benefits Australia' is in reality another of the myths where the country gets bled dry
sometimes the single sad story doesn't cut it
you need risk assessments, trend patterns of issues and get a legal accountability line of attack and then kick them up the big A with it - i figure all of that is happening?
closing hospitals and post offices, is a trend and I agree - it reflects the withdrawal of a public sector and it is a sign of impending death of small towns (and often bad social economics - i work in health and we are often expected to operate like private business versus a socially & not for profit responsible organisation)
I feel for you as I have lived in places like the Gulf of Carpentaria and we relied entirely on the RFDS for any medical attention and then you only saw the Doc if you were half dead, the nurses did all the care, scripts etc (and did it well!!)
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Numbers,
I have not much liking for Paul but I am sure that he has the good sense to distance himself from such stupidity as exhibited bu some members of his political party of choice ;)
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1.3 The Greens will oppose any motion of no confidence in the government from any non-Greens
member.
Direct quote from the Agreement
This would have to be the stupidest clause in any agreement ever signed.
It does however allow the Greens to put forward the no confidence motion making them the scapegoat.
Let me demonstrate please.
Let us assume that the coalition are the ones who form government.
Let us also assume that Labor for some reason puts forward a motion of no confidence in the government (coalition), according to the terms of that legally binding agreement the greens MUST oppose the motion.
Now I ask you, stupid or not?? OH DEAR!! What a predicament.
Bobby, Jules what HAVE you done????
Absurd or brilliant?!!! ... from the Greens perspective. That clause means they will be required to support ANY government, unless the Greens put the motion - where they CAN vote against the government. They still have control either way - it just means they need to get in first, if they want whoever is in - out. Even Julia.
From the ALP perspective .... are they that desperate to allow such a clause to stand?
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Majority want the independents to back Labor
http://www.optuszoo.com.au/news/192158/majority-want-the-independents-to-back-labor.html (http://www.optuszoo.com.au/news/192158/majority-want-the-independents-to-back-labor.html)
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Voters want independent MPs to side with Labor, says poll
http://www.smh.com.au/federal-election/voters-want-independent-mps-to-side-with-labor-says-poll-20100903-14ufc.html (http://www.smh.com.au/federal-election/voters-want-independent-mps-to-side-with-labor-says-poll-20100903-14ufc.html)
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Gillard's secret weapon: he's from Queensland and is pleased to help
http://www.smh.com.au/federal-election/gillards-secret-weapon-hes-from-queensland-and-is-pleased-to-help-20100903-14uex.html (http://www.smh.com.au/federal-election/gillards-secret-weapon-hes-from-queensland-and-is-pleased-to-help-20100903-14uex.html)
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Coalition accused of scare campaign
http://www.optuszoo.com.au/news/192093/coalition-accused-of-scare-campaign.html (http://www.optuszoo.com.au/news/192093/coalition-accused-of-scare-campaign.html)
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It is just possible that the readership of particular papers is biased towards Labor. Same poll, different paper, different readership, different result.
That's how it is. Everyone comes with a unique perspective, background, position on certain issues, geographical requirements, etc.
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^ It's called SPIN ^
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Political consensus used to be pretty much in agreement - that the Greens were way out there, with policies that came from the same place. It was further agreed that being a party of little significance - their policies would never come into play - and that they needn't be worried about. Well, dearest Julia, I do hope that you sleep well tonight - because a lot of others.... including those who voted for the ALP - and not a Greens / Labor power sharing arrangement certainly now, do have some things to be concerned about. Introducing Prime Minister elect - Mr Bob Brown!
Greens to rush same-sex bill
Senator Brown said yesterday Labor had agreed to work with the Greens to ensure private member's bills, seldom debated previously, would be properly considered in the new parliament.
"This means important Greens bills to introduce equal marriage, end offshore processing of asylum-seekers or to abolish junk-food advertising during children's TV viewing hours can't be swept under the carpet by the Labor and Liberal parties," the Greens leader said in an email bulletin yesterday.
Mr Bandt, who won the seat of Melbourne, said he would introduce private member's bills and perhaps press for them to be the subject of conscience votes.
But Bob - Let's not forget your defeatist policies regarding the decriminalising of drugs... allowing greater access of these things to kids - nor the increase in injecting rooms and public funded needle exchanges. Curious though.... will Coles only sell Blonde Hashish... or include the more exotic varieties as well?
http://www.theaustralian.com.au/news/nation/greens-to-rush-same-sex-bill/story-e6frg6nf-1225914037018
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(http://i673.photobucket.com/albums/vv95/ozrt/Poll.jpg)
But that is only public opinion, I am sure they made up their mind long ago but wanted to see the antics of both sides and have their 15 minutes of fame.
Andy has a lot to answer for.
And if they had not made up their mind long ago it would show that they lacked self confidence and direction.
Shame that the country is being held to ransom by the likes of that lot.
Also a shame on BOTH parties for pandering to the whims of idiots.
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Windsor backs Labor on broadband
http://www.smh.com.au/federal-election/windsor-backs-labor-on-broadband-20100904-14vd4.html (http://www.smh.com.au/federal-election/windsor-backs-labor-on-broadband-20100904-14vd4.html)
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Voters want independent MPs to side with Labor, says poll
http://www.smh.com.au/federal-election/voters-want-independent-mps-to-side-with-labor-says-poll-20100903-14ufc.html (http://www.smh.com.au/federal-election/voters-want-independent-mps-to-side-with-labor-says-poll-20100903-14ufc.html)
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Poll points independents to Labor
http://www.smh.com.au/federal-election/poll-points-independents-to-labor-20100903-14uhe.html (http://www.smh.com.au/federal-election/poll-points-independents-to-labor-20100903-14uhe.html)
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Majority of voters in their electorates want the independents to back Labor
http://www.theaustralian.com.au/national-affairs/majority-of-voters-in-their-electorates-want-the-independents-to-back-labor/story-fn59niix-1225914017626 (http://www.theaustralian.com.au/national-affairs/majority-of-voters-in-their-electorates-want-the-independents-to-back-labor/story-fn59niix-1225914017626)
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Gillard on the move for power
http://www.theaustralian.com.au/news/opinion/gillard-on-the-move-for-power/story-e6frg6zo-1225914022561 (http://www.theaustralian.com.au/news/opinion/gillard-on-the-move-for-power/story-e6frg6zo-1225914022561)
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NBN is like the promise of a 'laptop for every schoolchild'
Ask yourself 'who will be connected to fiber first?' you can bet your bippies or or knackers it WONT be the rural areas, not enough votes there.
So all what will happen is, the ones who already have broadband will get extra speed to check their emails with while the ones without will still go without. Typical government policy.
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and they complained about a possible 10 or 11 $b black hole in Liberals figures
Labor have said 42 or 43 $b to do NBN ....those in the trade say closer to $100b ....now that could be a big black hole !!!!
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They are spending $50 million a day on public servants sitting around waiting for a decision... I would like to see that taken from the independents electorate.. about time candidates made their decision prior to the vote count.. I would have alot more time for Tony or Jooolya if they stood up and said I wont be extorted or stood over by a little gay poonce like you who wants to run an electorate where they use more water/power/services than the rest of the country.. and do we need to spend a couple of billion per electorate to get those votes?? Sit back, suck it up and wait your time.. this country will never see a Labor Govt again in my lifetime, and I hope they are held accountable for giving scrotes $1000's per kid whilst the working families doing it tough got NOT ONE F&^%$ THING!!
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"This means important Greens bills ....... can't be swept under the carpet by the Labor and Liberal parties," the Greens leader said in an email bulletin yesterday.
Does anybody else find this situation rather bizarre?
I find it astounding that a party with only one seat of representation can not only introduce and demand serious consideration for any bill that both the Labor and Liberal parties - representing the vast majority of the population - have been unmoved to support previously ... but to have the very real power to put pressure on the vote for it to be passed.
I never thought it could be feasible - but the possibility now seems quite real that at least part of our country's future will be decided by a minority government of ONE.
This has nothing to do with any particular proposals - just the concept.
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Labor have said 42 or 43 $b to do NBN ....those in the trade say closer to $100b ....now that could be a big black hole !!!!
Funny smee - that's precisely what I've been hearing as well..... albeit a tad over $100B. I read that Mr Windsor has been convinced that fibre is the only answer - a 'do it once approach'. Strangely, many years ago, a salesman told me that the new 286 computer system was all that I'd ever need too.... and where are we now... 6 processor CPU's? By the time fibre is walked to the moon and back - it'll probably be as recent as the telegraph lines that used to dot the country!
Meanwhile, (selfishly speaking of course) the western area health service (NSW) is in debt to the tune of around $100M. Their orders are strictly cash up front.
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Actually regarding the NBN and who will be getting it first - apparently I will be one of the first. As it is at the moment - I cant get adsl 2 - but if I lived 500 metres north - i would. So apparently I will be one of the first to benefit - according to my isp and the local papers.
Geraldton will also be getting it.
2 regional towns that are both considered safe coalition seats
http://www.nbn.gov.au/content/geographical-rollout (http://www.nbn.gov.au/content/geographical-rollout)
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Here is a bit of worthwhile reading :)
Take note of the key dates.
http://www.nbnco.com.au/about-nbn-co/history-of-nbnco
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Come on people, don't get suckered into believing all the election promises.
Consider NBN like updating roads with super highways, can you honestly believe that rural areas will get super highways first?
What good will the super highway be it it only takes you from one side of a rural community to the other and then the rest of your journey is via dirt road to your destination?
As with any road network the arteries (internet backbone) have to be be in place first until then you are going nowhere FAST.
Yet the NBN Co. and the government are pissing in everyones pockets and trying to tell them its raining.
It does not that rocket science to see that the hubs are the starting point in any network be it internet, road, string and tin can communication or ANY other network.
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I will admit to not having studied the specifics on the NBN rollout - but there are some fundamental truths that I fear are being totally glossed over ... and ones that are going to have significant impacts:
1. As Poddy has said, the infrastructure needs to be in place for this to work as heralded - and it just isn't there.
2. Australia is a big country - not much smaller than that place between Canada and Mexico - and it's going to take a lot of optical fibre to cover it ... and it will take a long time to do it!
3. I would trust costings from the industry a lot more than the government - who have a vested interest in underestimating a cost ... especially at election time.
4. Political point scoring is going to direct who gets what and when. If servicing a remote but high profile community of 20 can score brownie points that translate into 100,000 votes, then they will be put ahead of a community of 10,000 that may only have 5,000 votes in it. The same numbers game applies everywhere - a sad, but true reflection of the fact that however altruistic their motives are painted, the almost universal bottom line for politicians is "where are the votes?"
This is getting depressing just thinking of how well the whole of Australia is NOT going to get what has been promised - based on practicalities and experience.
I might as well just hold out for someone to develop the Quantum Modem. No expensive runs of cables. Zero latency added. Functional whilst mobile in any situation - terrestrial, subterranean, submarine, lunar, martian and even that wi-fi dead spot in the corner of the lounge room.
Anyone wanting to place bets on which will come first... the NBN or the quantum modem?
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OMG !!!! Brumbles have you been looking over my shoulder????
I have had that very article that you refer to in design stage now for a number of years, it is making progress in quantum leaps :)
All that is needed now is a quantum leap in the amount of cash needed to finish the project, and ideas who I could convince that it is the ultimate in technology and the very last word in technology.A mere $B50 to roll it out WORLDWIDE in an undefined period of time. :)
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How about a coalition between Bill Gates and Steve Jobs...? :D
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... and if they can't sort it out, just bring in Bob Brown to break the deadlock.
But then again ... isn't he more into smoke signals for digital communication?
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Hmmmmm........ Somehow I doubt if Steve or Bill are the bend-over types.
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ok heres the scoop on how it will go down , decisions by independants will be announced Tuesday ....
Tony Windsor - coalition , Bob 'Mad hatter' - coalition , 'look at me look at me' Cockshott - Labor
result 75 all and back to the polls late October just before the Melbourne cup but after the Caulfield Cup
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And if your scoop is right smee - that would probably be the best result that can be had!
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either way , even if one of the parties do form a government , there will be another election early next year anyway before the new senate is formed as it will not work
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I wonder who'll vote for the ALP/Greens (ALG) then?
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Shyer will I think :roflmao: :rofl: :lol: :rofl: :pmsl: :roflmao: :rofl: :lol: :pmsl:
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sorry for being so ignorant on this NBN subject, but are you saying a cable has to be physically laid to every house in Australia for this to work? Surely not! The logistics of that are near impossible.
So if it costs many $$ thousands for every man, woman, child and many $$ tens of thousands per household to do this, what are the benefits for us all kicking in this coin? ball park figures 100bn divided by 20mil population = $5000 each. Wouldn't it be money better spent installing myki in every town??
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Good Morning Golden!
Julia Gillard stated that there would be no installation cost per household in a tv interview a while ago. That appears )from industry circles) to be completely incorrect.
There is a stack of information about stating that installations could range upto $4000+ per household.
Consider it like water supply. The main runs down your street - but anything on your property side of the main is at your expense.
That's how it stands with household fibre links. (not to mention modem and internal cabling changes)
The Liberal plan was based around getting fibre (backbone cabling) to the major exchange areas.... many of which Telstra already have existing in the ground, and allowing the private arena to compete on providing the services to homes, utilising the copper in the ground.... much the same as things are at the moment - but with National coverage. They also spoke of sharing different technologies in achieving this outcome... ie: wireless.
There is a new 4G wireless service becoming available that is capable of providing a 100Mbps service to households. That is enormously cheaper than providing physical cable - particularly to remote areas.
But, as mentioned by Poddy and others - again there is a limitation on the equipment that is capable (infrastructure) of providing this breakneck speed, not to mention the bandwidth limitations that presently exist. 43Bn to address this? Seems quite a 'pie in the sky' figure to me.... but, at election times, promises are made to be broken..... not that any of us have seen that happen before!
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http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2010/07/30/2968355.htm
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Consider it like water supply. The main runs down your street - but anything on your property side of the main is at your expense.
That's how it stands with household fibre links.
Morning Loco... thanks.
So when I put the phone/internet on here.. 2006 I think. I had to dig a trench 800 mtrs up to the front road, some contractor bored under the road and they eventually hooked me up. Would the infrastructure be there in that cabling or would I have to re do it all over again? Seems from Smees article there is alot of the cabling already in place, in some parts of Oz, laying dormant. Why is it that its not getting used? Dont private enterprise want it yet or are they just waiting for the tax payers to fund it?
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Golden... prior to my present employment, I was with Telstra for nearly twenty years. What smee says is quite right.... optical fibre is really nothing new. It's the equipment both ends that makes the real difference.
Cabling standards would probably determine that you would require a new trench to bring this in. Optus put up aerial cables in many areas.... but were not allowed to in others. Incidentally, anyone hoping to connect OptusTV..... you're out of luck. They are discontinuing their network.... including, I believe, their cable Internet. Discovered this a couple of days ago..... and whirlpool.net.au is full of comments regarding it.
smee, that is an interesting article. Some of the comments are quite good as well.... I brought one home.... where an 'old fart' (such as me!!!) was criticised for not supporting the NBN.
"i am one of those old farts and you are way off the mark. All you see is your gaming and downloading speeds going up, try looking at it from everyone else perspective, we do need improvement but at what cost to the consumers. This has more to do with what is acceptable than anything else, it was made up overnight by a group of 4, no figures have been released to back it only talk. After all the stuff ups with every other program they have instigated so far how good do you really think this one is, it will stuff up just like the others because it was a rushed release to gain voter approval with no background checks what so ever. "
Well, at least Labor captured the young vote I suppose.
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I know of optic fibre running around the middle of nowhere for hundreds of klms and no one hooked on to it, runs right past homesteads, a little town, got me beat! I am pretty sure it is a loop for Melb/Syd, they just took the scenic route........lol
No baloney, it is thousands of klms out of the way!
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http://news.ninemsn.com.au/national/election2010/7956624/voters-prefer-second-election-poll
A poll has revealed that a majority of Australians are now demanding a resolution to the federal election deadlock and would prefer another election over a hung parliament, regardless of which party the independents decide to back.
News Ltd says a national poll on the question of the future of a hung parliament shows the majority of people are now fed up and would support simply going back the polls.
The telephone poll of 1000 people, commissioned by the Sydney-based public relations and lobby firm Parker and Partners, showed 56 per cent of people now want another election.
It suggests that even if Julia Gillard or Tony Abbott manage to form a minority government, with the support of the independents, it will be a government not supported by the majority of voters.
Voters were asked whether they now supported a hung parliament or would prefer another election.
A total of 56 per cent said they would prefer another poll, with Western Australia recording the highest number of people - 66 per cent.
NSW had the least number of people wanting a new election, with 53 per cent. "These results suggest the second week of negotiations with the independents have really tested the patience of Australians," CEO of Parker and Partners Sarah Cruikshank told News Ltd on Sunday.
"The community appears frustrated that the government is being so publicly held hostage by a handful of vested interests, and the risk for the independents is that they are now perceived to have overplayed their hands."
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Now that would be VERY interesting.
I can't hepl but wonder if the Gang of 3 would get re elected, I somehow doubt it.
Hmmmmm... is that a telltale sign of of 'brown stuff' I see around the Gang's shoes :)
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Hmmmm....... reverse psychology Warren??? :)
http://bigpondnews.com/articles/Politics/2010/09/06/Independents_will_support_ALP_-_Entsch_509665.html
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One has to wonder how the NBN will handle mobile internet, I can imagine everyone on a fiber optic string hahahaha
The NBN will have a whole department set up to untangle all the strands
OMG!!!! I juat had a horrible thought and visual Australia tangled up in fiber optic STRING
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Poddy - just get back onto your Quantum Modem project ... ok?
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One has to wonder how the NBN will handle mobile internet, I can imagine everyone on a fiber optic string hahahaha
The NBN will have a whole department set up to untangle all the strands
OMG!!!! I juat had a horrible thought and visual Australia tangled up in fiber optic STRING
You said that word ... Umaaarrrr !
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Dear Julia
How about this for an election winner
Let's put the seniors in jail and the criminals in a nursing home.
This way the seniors would have access to showers, hobbies and walks.
They'd receive unlimited free prescriptions, dental and medical treatment,
wheel chairs etc and they'd receive money instead of paying it out.
They would have constant video monitoring, so they could be helped
instantly, if they fell, or needed assistance.
Bedding would be washed twice a week, and all clothing would be ironed
and returned to them. A guard would check on them every 20minutes and
bring their meals and snacks to their cell.
They would have family visits in a suite built for that purpose.
They would have access to a library, weight room, spiritual counselling,
pool and education.
Simple clothing, shoes, slippers, PJ's and legal aid would be free, on
request.
Private, secure rooms for all, with an exercise outdoor yard, with
gardens.
Each senior could have a PC a TV radio and daily phone calls.
There would be a board of directors to hear complaints, and the guards
would have a code of conduct that would be strictly adhered to.
The "criminals" would get cold food, be left all alone and unsupervised.
Lights off at 8pm, and showers once a week.
Live in a tiny room and pay $900.00 per month and have no hope of ever
getting out.
Justice for all we say.
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You have my vote on that Ubbie :):):):)
EXCELLENT IDEA
JOOLYA !!!! if you get in then DO IT
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Ubbs..... Have you been to my workplace... have you?
The sad fact is that the statement is not far from the actual mark. Judges put people in gaol so that they can receive decent psychiatric assistance.... and because they believe the same to be not available outside.
A terribly sad indictment on society when you think about it.
As a matter of interest, there was an elderly lady (mid 80's) inside recently. She told me that her time in gaol was the best experience of her life. She had a large contingent of younger women looking after her.... and they built her up in confidence no end. She was actually sad to go home - because she knew that she would not have the same level of support, or company there. She worried that she would die at home.... and nobody would know. (She didn't know at the time - but she will be receiving around thirty letters a week - and a stack of phone calls, from her many adopted daughters.)
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A decision on which of the two major parties will be able to form a minority federal government is likely to be announced at a press conference scheduled for 2pm today (AEST).
The three country independent MPs - Tony Windsor, Bob Katter and Rob Oakeshott - who will make the decision have started arriving at Parliament House in Canberra for consideration of "final documents" from both Prime Minister Julia Gillard and Opposition Leader Tony Abbott.
"Then the three of us will get together and talk it through," Mr Windsor said, adding the trio was hoping they could make public their decision early this afternoon.
Ms Gillard and Mr Abbott might not hear about the decision until it is announced publicly.
Mr Windsor admitted he was leaning one way but would not say whether it was towards Labor or the coalition.
He hasn't even told his wife.
"She wanted to know. No. She can't be trusted," he told reporters.
Nor have the three MPs yet talked to each other about their "specific votes".
Labor needs only the support of two of the three independents to form a minority government, while the coalition needs all three.
Nationals Senate leader Barnaby Joyce is not confident about the coalition's chances of winning over the independents.
"You get a sense that the momentum is slipping away from us," he told ABC Radio.
But his opposition frontbench colleague Andrew Robb is still hopeful the independents will back the coalition, describing private negotiations as genial and constructive.
"They have given us the impression they are still weighing up issues on both sides," he said.
Mr Robb rejected criticism Mr Abbott had lost the negotiation battle, despite running the better election campaign.
"I don't buy that argument. Let's see what happens today."
Mr Windsor says stability of government remains the most important issue for him.
"Can we put something in place that will last and work for a period of time," he said.
"What we all want to avoid, and I think the community as well wants to avoid, is a 75-all draw which would mean another election."
The coalition is counting West Australian National Tony Crook as one of its 73 lower house MPs.
Mr Crook said in a statement to AAP early on Monday evening he would support the coalition.
But he would sit on the cross-benches until the Liberals agreed to match the WA royalties for regions scheme with federal funding for regional infrastructure.
- http://news.ninemsn.com.au/national/election2010/7957282/election-decision-expected-at-2pm
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it will be more like 3pm I think as Mr "look at me" ( self appointed leader of the independants) wants to drag out his glory and big note himself for an extra hour
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74 all
;D
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Bob Katter - supporting The Coalition..... reported at about 1.30. OFFICIAL!
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I think the Independents will go with the Labor/Greens, under the impression that Australia wants and needs a stable government more than it needs a government of fiscal responsibility and integrity. (Mind you, we ARE talking about politicians here... and integrity is a rare beast.)
A thousand-year dictatorship where the king/sultan/emperor/grand high poobah executes one thousand people every week and has the rest whipped on a rotation basis is a stable government. And oh lord, wouldn't you, as a sufferer under such a regime, wish for it to be UNstable?
Stability is not the most important issue here. But I greatly fear the Independents will support Labor, oiled by the unctuous offerings of the incumbent caretaker.
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Countess.... if the remaining two choose to support The Coalition.... wouldn't that make Bob Brown homeless? ;D
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Oh! I was wrong!
I was never more glad.
Thank you, Rdigits!
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as predicted the mad hatter and Tony Windsor have been trying to talk sense into "Hotshott"
all morning , despite him saying that they wanted stability he wanted it only on his terms .... Bob spat the dummy about half an hour ago and walked out on the other 2 and declared his backing of the coalition .....
Tony Windsor will not be far behind him ........Hotshott will be sulking till at least 3pm
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Countess.... I can't say that I'm not overjoyed as well. Could we be that lucky twice more today do you think?
smee.... didn't "Hotshot" (I like that one...) say that he would change his mind to avoid a deadlock?
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Cowboy Katter may be a bit of a git but he knows that if he had have gone to the ALGP he would not see another term in office.
I wonder if the other two realise that too?
We will soon know.
Time for another thread I feel
What about ELECTION AFTERMATH!!!
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Mr Katter apparently believes that the other two Independents will support Labor.
That's not a comforting thought for anyone who thinks a Labor/Green govt will be a disastrous mistake.
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smee.... didn't "Hotshot" (I like that one...) say that he would change his mind to avoid a deadlock?
yes he did , but that was when he thought that the other 2 were being subserviant to him , he said that cos he always new the Hatter was leaning towards coalition but thought Windsor was going labor so he pushed for the unity thing , thinking that would sway the Hatter , little did he know that the "Hatter" was always going to go coalition purely on 2 things , he was totally against the Mining and Carbon taxes , 2 things that labor was adament was going to happen ............ just watch Hotshotts bottom lip start to quiver if he cant turn Tony Windsor around and he has to go coalition .......
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The teltale signs of brown ooze around the trouser cuffs is again evident
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here we go
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and the winner is
Sid Derney !!!!!
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and the winner is
Sid Derney !!!!!
I was up early for that announcement - great start to the day it was, too!
This one, however, has lost a lot of it's sheen - but let's get it over with!
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well well well buggah me Windsor has gone Labor
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So to a certain extent Hottshott has got his way ....its all up to him now .....CENTRE OF ATTENTION ... will he now back flip so we have to go to the polls again ..........he may just do that .....
as there is no way either party can survive for long with a minute margin
if he doesnt we will be back to the polls before Easter anyway
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"Tony Windsor has announced he's supporting LABOR to form a minority government.
Mr Windsor names broadband as one of the key issues that led him to that decision.
Rob Oakeshott is yet to reveal his decision."
And what does Mr Windsor actually know about the broadband issue...? His grasp on technology...? I am dumbfounded.
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I predict Mr Oakeshott will go with Labor. His decision will create a government and prevent the deadlock he said he wanted to avoid.
We're doomed, all who object to a filtered internet... We're doomed, all who object to a carbon tax. We're doomed, all who object to a HORRENDOUS waste of money on technology that will be old before it's even finished being implemented.
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From what I'm hearing, if Oakeshott goes Labor, there'll be a by-election not too far away - as his constituency will lynch him.
If true, it seems somewhat bizarre for a politician to go against his electorate....
Sorry - forgot where we were ... we're talking politicians here, aren't we.
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well I for one cannot believe the Lunacy of these independents.
If they side with Labor - and oaktreeshoot is almost certain to go that way - we have a difficult 3 years ahead.
Let me remind everybody.
Only 37.7 % of people wanted Labor
They wasted enough money to build 7000 suburban houses a day for the last 3 years
The interest alone on that debt is enough to build 400 suburban houses a day.
They want to introduce a chinese type internet filter
They want to introduce a carbon tax - mark my words. This will be very very painful
They want to stuff the mining industry - the very thing that has kept us going
Why would these independents go against their electorates - because that flocking redhead opened the cheque book even futher. The conservative opposition never had a hope.
I'll see all of you when this government is dumped. Until then I think I'll quietly disappear
cheers to all.
PS - after I have sent the coin to PP of course.
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Wyzeguy, don't disappear until then...
I view the future with apprehension, but somehow we've got to keep up each other's spirits.
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Rob Oakeshott has made his decision.
"After a long speech, Rob Oakeshott announces Labor has his backing "in a points decision".
That gives Julia Gillard the 76 votes she needs to form a minority government."
I knew it. As I said before... we're doomed.
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Well, according to the logic of two of the independents.... the country will benefit from a Carbon Tax - and higher utility prices.... as well as the mining tax. Bob Brown must be tooooootally orgasmic at the moment!
Next step..... Where's Kev? Don't change your mind on that one Julia..... or look out!
Going back to the Curly avatar shortly....... as the future looks as though it'll be a joke!
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Tony Windsor, says, Ï didn't totally check the offers made to us!!! they were both good offers so I went with Joooooolya cos she will be in Govt for the full 3 years"....
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Now if Kevin 07 has a warped sense of humour he will now resign , which will require a bi-election and pull the rug out from Under Julia's feet .............excellent payback .........
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It is enough to make one swear..........your right Tessa, we are doomed.
How the %&$#@ is a carbon tax going to help anything but the governments pockets.
It beggars belief that people can be so bloody stupid................ over a number of matters
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Although I have always been a labour voter this last election caused me to give a lot of thought to the danger of Green power if Labour won.
The Greens will attempt to destroy receational fishing in Australia (vast areas of the Australian coastline becoming marine parks). They have intimated they want to see a return of Death duty (a draconian tax) & they want to see an end to negative gearing which will, in time, create shortages in the home rental field. I'm glad I own my home. I could go on but I'm sure all of you are aware of the Greens aims.
Keelhaul all Greenies immediately, I'm available rope in hand & reering to go.
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REVOLUTION!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KrkwgTBrW78 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KrkwgTBrW78)
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M_bvT-DGcWw (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M_bvT-DGcWw)
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*lends Ubbie the rope*
We are a country being held captive to the whims of those who are drunk on never-before-held power... subject to the determined wishes and personal agendas of a minority.
I feel betrayed.
What price human life, when it comes to the dry crackling beauties of fuel for fire? No, no, don't touch the grass. No, rather we all perish in a mighty inferno than that we cause harm to one little blade of grass by nasty, malicious, cruel, torturous selfish back-burning...
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LABOR WINS!!!!!
The final Tally.
Australian Labor Party 76 seats
Liberal / National Party 74 seats
Labor 150 4,687,724 38.0
Liberal 109 3,756,296 30.4
Greens 150 1,449,809 11.7
LNP 30 1,129,433 9.2
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Now if Kevin 07 has a warped sense of humour he will now resign , which will require a bi-election and pull the rug out from Under Julia's feet .............excellent payback .........
OMG Smee! Wouldn't that be poetic justice..lol
Do you think if we all wrote to him....we might implant that idea in his head?
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LABOR WINS!!!!!
I cant help laughing, wins? are you kidding
That was not a win it was an exhausted, staggering, corpse being propped up by some crutches, limping across the finish line.
And boy those crutches are sure some scabby crutches.
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I have to agree with Poddy. Labor did not 'win' the election - nor did the new Labor/Greens Coalition. They were given the right to approach the GG to form government, NOT by the result of the constituency giving them the right, but by negotiation with other members of parliament.
It must be said, though, that it would have been much the same for the Liberal/National Coalition.
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I am willing to take bets at 10:1 that come next election Oakeshott will not be elected and I doubt that he has ANY political future
Any takers??
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BREAKING NEWS
as a gesture of good faith the labor party have promised all those families who's houses burnt to the ground due to faulty insulation installation will be getting the new you beaut super fast broadband installed first
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Aptly said.
Yes, there was no possible "elected" government in the hung parliament result.
And now... I suppose we must live with the result for which Austrdlia did NOT vote.
I suppose this might be perceived as sour grapes. But in my opinion a govt that can only rule with the consistently given "okay" of the indies and the Greens is not a govt that can achieve much.
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I am willing to take bets at 10:1 that come next election Oakeshott will not be elected and I doubt that he has ANY political futureAny takers??
Oakshot is my member I voted for him as my personal experiences with him have been good. He won the by election 2 years ago with a 66% primary vote, labour did not stand a candidate thus the the "fall " in green votes. Labour voters had few choices.
Oakshot was dammed in the choice he had to make. Having lived in this and surrounding electorates for over 20 years he will be lucky to be reelected. However he has followed his stated policies and promices. And for that alone he deserves respect
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As he is your member, Shyer, and I've not paid any attention to his campaign, I am in no position to comment other than in principle - which is, if he stands by what he said previously, then that is certainly worthy of respect.
But, I am curious, if his position was clear beforehand and he has been faithfult to that - why did he waffle on for so long to announce his decision? Even the media were getting toey!
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LABOR WINS!!!!!
I cant help laughing, wins? are you kidding
That was not a win it was an exhausted, staggering, corpse being propped up by some crutches, limping across the finish line.
And boy those crutches are sure some scabby crutches.
would the same apply if the Libs had won???
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But, I am curious, if his position was clear beforehand and he has been faithfult to that - why did he waffle on for so long to announce his decision? Even the media were getting toey!
He knows he is signing his short term oblivion warrant. Trying to justify is normal. AND MOST of his voters are not familiar with his policies. Just that he is a real human alternative to party machine politics.
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shyer,
I agree with you, the die was cast for all of the independents when there was a hung parliament.
However they sealed their own fate by not deciding their path much sooner, by stretching it out to see how much they could whore out of both sides the showed their hand, that they have no conviction of what they stand for.
Wilkie was the worst of all and he too will get exactly what he deserves.
The stand over tactics will not be soon forgotten, the Greens and the ALP have also shown their hand and from this day on they will be for ever in a death embrace.
The two leaders of the opposing sides have also shown their hand. they were both willing to bend over to gain power at all costs shame on both of them and I am betting that they too will be dealt with what they so richly deserve.
Politics is chock-a-block full of political whores and we have seen, in the last couple of weeks, the worst whoring ever.
It saddens me to see such so called people in roles so powerful as to affect the lives of millions. I can only describe the people involved as the lowest scum of the earth.
May a Pox descend on both their houses
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Trala!!
would the same apply if the Libs had won???
It may surprise you but yes I would say the same thing.
I would have preferred the Libs to have formed a government but not because they 'WON' but because they are a better alternative to the
BLOODY FILTER, the BLOODY NBN, THE BLOODY CARBON TAX, the BLOODY WASTE OF TAXPAYERS MONEY, THE BLOODY GREEN ALLIENCE.
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would the same apply if the Libs had won???
elantra..... you raise an interesting question. Do you really think that the ALG won? Can you imaging the turmoil that is going to take place in the political arena? The ageement with Labor for starters is a lousy one, in that the independents have anly guaranteed supply - NOT voting with the government of Votes of No Confidence... unless they're seen to be 'silly' in nature. (note that word - 'silly' as it will become terribly important) They also reserved their rights to NOT support any legislation that impacts on their own electorates. That leaves a government walking on flash powder at every turn. The allegiance with the Greens will also have some serious ramifications in Labor heartland as well. People will certainly be reminded of that.
I would suggest to you that the best position to be placed in would be that of the Coalition..... simply from the point of taking the least damage.
It will be interesting when the debate commences surrounding the proposed Carbon Tax - given the present makeup.
Poddy - only 10:1? Given the number of retirees in that part of the world.... and the impact on their costs of living... I think you could safely offer 100:1.
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Poddy independant electors expect their reps to bargain . Most of the time lost was waiting for a final accurate count becoming available.
I think Labour has picked up a posioned chalice. greens to the left, old foes to the right, and still they rode into the valley of death
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Trala!!,
I put all those things in large bold so they could be remembered becaus the will bite everyone on the arse, bigtime.
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I think Labour has picked up a posioned chalice. greens to the left, old foes to the right, and still they rode into the valley of death
Yes shyer - agree completely ...... to their peril.
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BLOODY FILTER, the BLOODY NBN, THE BLOODY CARBON TAX, the BLOODY WASTE OF TAXPAYERS MONEY, THE BLOODY GREEN ALLIENCE
but apart from that what have the Romans done for us ???
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hSELOCMmw4A
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shyer, too true!!!
And the country and the people will be the cannon fodder, high damage count I am betting
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Just as an aside, I was just musing on the fact that I have had more than one Labor supporter in the past comment about the fact that it took a Coalition of Libs and Nats to take on a single, unified party - the ALP.
While the Liberals and Nationals had their own identities and interests, they were at least aligned on much common ground.
Yet, now we have the new 'Labor/Greens Coalition' that are strange bedfellows indeed - but even that failed to achieve government. A tenuous ability to get the nod to form government has only come about by the painstaking courtship of a number of independants. In fact, it has only been through the coalition with the Greens that has given Labor the extra seat which has allowed them to be more convincing in the courtship.
A very shaky performance. Though I would not expect them to openly trash their party, I wonder what Whitlam and Hawke really think about it all.
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There's always Viagra to help the courtship along....
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I would have thought yhe idea of that during the courtship would have been a definite turn-off ... unless they really WANT the BOHICA move!
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Just as an aside, I was just musing on the fact that I have had more than one Labor supporter in the past comment about the fact that it took a Coalition of Libs and Nats to take on a single, unified party - the ALP.
While the Liberals and Nationals had their own identities and interests, they were at least aligned on much common ground.
Yet, now we have the new 'Labor/Greens Coalition' that are strange bedfellows indeed - but even that failed to achieve government. A tenuous ability to get the nod to form government has only come about by the painstaking courtship of a number of independants. In fact, it has only been through the coalition with the Greens that has given Labor the extra seat which has allowed them to be more convincing in the courtship.
A very shaky performance. Though I would not expect them to openly trash their party, I wonder what Whitlam and Hawke really think about it all.
Have you heard what the greatest Prime minister of all time, Mr Malcom Fraser has had to say about Tony Abbott & the Liberal Party?
Would do your soul some good, he is a man who should be listened to when he speaks.
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the greatest Prime minister of all time, Mr Malcom Fraser ..... Should have kept his trousers on whilst abroad! Wasn't he elected by one vote? That of one John Kerr?
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Trala !!,
Any thoughts as to how long this paliament will last before an election takes place?
Greatest PM?? Hmmm.... where does that place Pig Iron Bob?
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the greatest Prime minister of all time, Mr Malcom Fraser ..... Should have kept his trousers on whilst abroad! Wasn't he elected by one vote? That of one John Kerr?
Wasn't Tony Abbott also elected leader by only one vote? HIS OWN OF COURSE !!
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Wasn't Tony Abbott also elected leader by only one vote? HIS OWN OF COURSE !!
Didn't know that Tony Abbott was a Governor General. The things one learns here!
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To be fair to Kerr - the only thing he did was say 'Let's have an election'. Whoever got in after that was the choice of the voters. Kerr could only influence that result by his own vote in a polling booth just like the rest of us.
The swirling political undercurrents and issues at the time would have been the 'nasty bits' around which NO government would ever want to time an election.
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Hmmm.....
Rob Oakeshott must be a bit concerned even though he says that he is not over losing his seat.
I was going to leave a message for him on his website but alas I think he pulled the plug on it.
looks like he does not want to hear from his constituents now that he is JOOLYA's toyboy.
Wonder why he pulled the plug? Too much flack? I wonder what that brown oozzee pongy stuff is splattering out of his fan base?
I thought you liked the limelight?
Suck it up Robbo and get used to it.
Leave Rob a message , if you can , But I can't
http://www.roboakeshott.com/
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Here's a thought.
What if you guy's are wrong!
Step back, hang on, I know that this thought should never be said out loud, but just maybe,,
maybe the filter is not a bad idea, if it stops one stupid teenager from trying to make a pipe bomb & blowing off his hand, it has done it's job.
If it stops two teenage girls from finding out how to commit suicide together its done it' job.
If it stops your son or daughter from being groomed for sex by some pedophile, well its done it's job.
If the mining tax brings some of the multi millions of dollars that are going oversea,s back to help build a better Australia
maybe that's a good thing to.
In ten years when maybe, if we find out that the NBN is really a good thing for Australia,
what will be said then?
If global warming is "complete crap" fabulous, but what if it's not, & we find out that it is too late to do anything about it,
what will be said then? "Sorry"
So, it's goodbye from me. This is my last posting.
I have found the comfortable references to guns, Knives & rope a bit much.
I find the posts about guns and killing greens etc is quite threatening.
Plus the nasty emails, I don't need this.
I am surprised that the Moderators have not stepped in.
It confirms that if you are not like minded here, you are not welcome.
But gee do you think it's possible that you could be wrong, sometimes?
Or are egos too large to allow that?
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Elantra, no report has been received from you about nasty emails. Please feel free to forward them (completely unaltered) to admin, and we will investigate.
As to guns, knives and rope, these references are as serious as the threats to unleash an army of Big Girls' Pants or covert Brussels sprouts. No real or serious threat is tolerated here, but we do not inculculate a culture of political correctness in which a joking word is verboten.
Please take this thought with you on the subject of an internet filter. China's government no doubt thinks its filter is a good thing, protective, etc... Russia no doubt was of the opinion that striking out in solid black ink anything in a letter which the authorities thought was disruptive was a good thing. We recognise these things as atrocious infringement upon personal freedom. Communication is one of the last bastions of freedom (not quite the last: freedom of our thoughts is the fort of our self's freedom); if we allow a GOVERNMENT to filter communication, how can we have any confidence?
Filter of pornography is not what this proposed filter is about.
But all it takes is a website to have got onto the "black list" for any reason (by mistake, for religious reasons, for political reasons, for personal reasons), and it will be effectively shoved into a black hole as far as Australia is concerned. Will we as human beings be any safer?
I do not believe so.
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Here's a thought.
What if you guy's are wrong!
Step back, hang on, I know that this thought should never be said out loud, but just maybe,,
maybe the filter is not a bad idea, if it stops one stupid teenager from trying to make a pipe bomb & blowing off his hand, it has done it's job.
Pray tell how could the ‘Filter’ prevent anything besides access to a site in its database? Tell me are we going to sort out all information in the library and only allow access to the material deemed fit to be read? Would you not scream discrimination? Censorship!! Who is to decide what is fit and what is not?
If it stops two teenage girls from finding out how to commit suicide together its done it' job.
Do you honestly believe that the ‘Filter’ would do that is it going to filter DVDs, TV, Books and the cyber social network as well?
If it stops your son or daughter from being groomed for sex by some pedophile, well its done it's job.
Do you think that the ‘Filter’ will in anyway stop paedophilia? How can it? Will it filter every word uttered by all people to another person and then judge what is acceptable? Impossible!!!
If the mining tax brings some of the multi millions of dollars that are going oversea,s back to help build a better Australia
maybe that's a good thing to.
Don’t you know that ANY tax, ALL tax, get passed on to the consumer raising the cost of all things.
In ten years when maybe, if we find out that the NBN is really a good thing for Australia,
what will be said then?
The NBN will never be completed and that is known now it is a 100$B white elephant, but it will generate tax dollars while people find out that it is a white elephant and it was a good ‘young people’ vote grabber huh?
If global warming is "complete crap" fabulous, but what if it's not, & we find out that it is too late to do anything about it,
what will be said then? "Sorry"
And what if it IS ‘complete crap’? Where is the carbon tax going?
Do you really think that taxing carbon production will reduce it?
NOPE!!!
Just more tax, a tax that says if you don’t accept this tax you are killing the planet.
Do you honestly think that we puny humans can affect the change in climate? The sun drives our climate as it has done for eons and will continue to do for eons to come with or without humans.
Do the research instead of taking everything you hear as gospel truth.
So, it's goodbye from me. This is my last posting.
Trala!!
If you choose to go then it is by your choice alone.
I for one will be a bit disappointed that you have chosen to do that, believe it or not.
I have found the comfortable references to guns, Knives & rope a bit much.
I find the posts about guns and killing greens etc is quite threatening.
Plus the nasty emails, I don't need this.
I am surprised that the Moderators have not stepped in.
It confirms that if you are not like minded here, you are not welcome.
But gee do you think it's possible that you could be wrong, sometimes?
Or are egos too large to allow that?
If you think that someone is incorrect in their thinking then perhaps you might like to convince them that they are, that’s a method I try to use, with logic and common sense.
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Elantra - I agree with a lot of what you have said - so you have at least one like minded person on this site - probably a lot more than you know.
The fact is that we dont know what is going to happen with this new government - it could be great instead of the doom and gloom some have suggested. We just dont know - we may think we do - but in reality we dont know.
I think that the internet needs to be cleaned up - and I am glad our government is thinking of doing it. I say about time. Do a google search on a crystal meth recipe - there are millions - I personally dont think anyone should be able to post such rubbish.
I am also glad that the greens have a little more power in parliament - I hope they use this wisely.
Anyway - Labor are in power - so we just have to accept this - and hope they do a good job
History will judge this government
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good on you mumsie
no elantra and you aren't alone ;D
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Whether or not anyone is incorrect in their way of thinking, to me, is irrelevent on the subject of the last election. Everyone has the right to vote for who ever they wish to be the head of our country.
The reference mentioned about guns and knives I would think, was made in frustration at the debacle this country has found itself in.
preference votes should hold no place in our voting system. Majority rules.
I saw something on TV this morning that made me very angry and that was Laurie Oaks and some other idiot on Channel 9 making jokes about Robert Oakshotte and Tony Windsor for supporting Labor and taking weeks to tell everyone who they were going to support. Mind you, there was no mention of Katter, who decided to go with the Liberals. As I heard it, it took a long time to get the final numbers the see who got what seats and then all three took as long as each other, all of which brings me to the conclusion that Channel 9 just loves Liberals and hates anything Labor. To me they actually made downright fools of them selves, Oaks and the other bloke that is. Laurie Oaks has always been a liberal supportor.
Sorry I'm not up on big words, so you won't get anything fancy here but, I believe, and I don't give a tinkers cuss whether you believe me or not, that Julia Gillard only excepted to job after the axing of Rudd and would rather have not taken it on in the first place. I also think she called an election for the people of Australia to have a fair chance at deciding who they really wanted to govern our country. And to everyone's amazement it was almost even but over the last 2-3 days I keep hearing on TV that the majority of Australians want the Libs back in. Funny if that were the case, why aren't they? And then again a lot of people ruined their votes, maybe because they are sick to death of all the crap that goes on and on between these so-called leaders, who we are suppose to elect to power. WOW! some of them act no older than 2 yr old, the way they carry on. Watching them on TV when they are all arguing and fighting, I think to myself, are they for real? And these people are supposed to be looking after us? Crap!
In the lead up to the election, Ms Gillard gave out policy after policy and what did Abbott give? not much as he was too busy bitching about how crap Labor's policies were. Abbott even said on TV, Work Choices is dead because I have an election to win. hmm he also said, don't believe everything I say. No Mr Abbott, I won't!
And for those who believe Kevin Rudd did the wrong thing handing out money in the recession, to keep Australia from going under, just find and read some of the article of how Australia has been recognised and applauded for staying above water while many other countries went under. I think he did what he thought was best for us and our country. If you want someone to blame, blame the American politicians and bankers. Take the time to find out who really runs their country.
oh and one other thing before I have finished having my say, many many years ago during the other recessions and the Depression, our Government (who-ever it was) did nothing. they believed it was better not to hand out money and everything would go back to normal in a few short weeks. it didn't. They were black evil days where people went hungry and even died because the government sat on the money and would hand it out.
Sure and how do i know this? My dad tells me. Yep he might be old but he's a lot more clever and intellegent than I am. He talks about the bad old days and no, he is not a labor supportor or a liberal supportor but a voter who votes for the party he thinks will do the best. Not for him but for our country.
Anyway I've had my say.
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Thanks robbie
Lacey - agree with you too.
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That's right MM and they haven't had the change to show their worth yet, so no one should be judgeing them just yet. we judge at the end of 3 o4 years not after 2 or 3 weeks.
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Your right Lacey - the people will decide if this government has done a great job.
I hope the government brings back plans to reintroduce fuel watch to the whole country. There was a lot of misinformation spread about this scheme, and as someone who uses it frequently - it does save money for the consumer. It may not have brought the prices down, I dont know, but it has kept the fuel companies on their toes. I save money every time I use it - and sometimes a lot of money.
Tomorrow there is a price difference of 16 cents per litre in our local area between the petrol stations (that does not include the fuel dockers discount either). Now for people struggling - that is a big difference.
The fact is that in WA our scheme has been running for a couple of years - and most of us love it. Its so easy to use, and after 6pm we can check tomorrows prices against todays prices - and then decide if we are filling up today or tomorrow. It certainly takes the guesswork out of it.
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16c? that's a lot. On a tank of 40litres you would save $6.40
Petrol here is $1.24 no ifs no buts. Down the road it's $130 and he's supposed to be the cheapest. yeah right!
I don't thing we have fuel watch here. Have heard nothig about it.
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You have the right to be passionate about this... and those who have an opposing view have that right. It's one of the good things about this forum: free to agree and to argue, because that is the nature of man.
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Oh that doesn't worry me Tessa. What worries me is when I get called stupid or silly for voting for the party I think will do a good job and not for the party others think I should vote for. So I was having my say on why I voted that way.
Life would be very boring if we all did the same things.
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because that is the nature of man.
OMG!!! Tessa you are politically incorrect ;)
Isn't it more in the nature of WOMAN???? There is a difference you know..............and............Viva la difference!!!!
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I agree Lacey - name calling is just stupid and unproductive.
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Whether or not anyone is incorrect in their way of thinking, to me, is irrelevent on the subject of the last election. Everyone has the right to vote for who ever they wish to be the head of our country.
Yep - I agree with that. But why take things sooooo seriously? This is supposed to be a fun forum! Is there a problem in people putting their thoughts and views... or sharing a laugh?
The reference mentioned about guns and knives I would think, was made in frustration at the debacle this country has found itself in.
preference votes should hold no place in our voting system. Majority rules.
I find this one particularly intriguing. Was it my reference to 'my trusty '08? Or another member's interest in Barretts that has caused angst? Seriously speaking.... were it a plan to actually go out and shoot or maim someone.... would you expect to read about it on a public forum? To the best of my knowledge, nobody - past or present member here - has actually been shot by another member.... I could be wrong - But to the best of my knowledge that is the case.
Sorry I'm not up on big words, so you won't get anything fancy here but, I believe, and I don't give a tinkers cuss whether you believe me or not, that Julia Gillard only excepted to job after the axing of Rudd and would rather have not taken it on in the first place.
Lacey - big words generally don't share the same story quite as well as a number of little ones do. Don't be worried about that! but as far as not caring a tinkers cuss (like that one...) about whether you're believed or not..... You're entitled to your thoughts and beliefs! Mind you - my thoughts vary on this. I'll show you what I mean:
The day Rudd was removed started with undying devotion from all his colleagues - that was at 4.30pm.
Ms Gillard discovered that Mr Rudd had asked one of his staffers to 'feel out' the loyalty of his colleagues. This was leaked - and Ms Gillard was infuriated.
She contacted one Mr Shorten and others.... and the plan to remove Mr Rudd was put into action. About 8.30pm - same day.
Mr Rudd appeared on TV the same night - stating that he would have the matter put to a vote - and would fight it. About 9.30pm - same day.
Next morning - the man who was going to fight didn't stand as a candidate. It was mentioned that his loss would have been demoralising. A very public display of this kind so close to an election would have been devastating for Labor... The anger in Qld at election time demonstrating the damage created. Would you care to hazard a guess as to how much behind the scenes work took place to prevent Mr Rudd from contesting his position?
Ms Gillard was selected as leader - unopposed. But that was a Labor strategy as well.... to place a woman in the position and play the gender card. It started as a high - but faded out dreadfully in the five weeks (minimum time to cash in on popularity) leading up to the election. I commented on this, as it was, in my opinion, demeaning to women.
Overall - Ms Gillard was the victim of the 'faceless' barsteds that placed her in this position..... but - it was she who 'pulled the trigger' on this thing.
Opinions vary don't they? Do you see that as a bad thing?
Elantra, no report has been received from you about nasty emails. Please feel free to forward them (completely unaltered) to admin, and we will investigate.
Yes Countess - I know.... That's Plagiarism! Mongrel..... aren't I?
Elantra - If you're still with us. It was fun discussing these subjects with you. But - it is important to see some things as they are, 'tongue in cheek'. It doesn't really matter what anyone thinks or says or writes when the subject is politics, religion or Holden v Ford. All people have their opinions - and the right to share them - be they right or not. Even in these 'taboo' subjects, the thoughts shared can bring benefits unilaterally. If you're leaving simply because the election is over, that's a pity. Keep safe - wherever you may be.
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I agree Lacey - name calling is just stupid and unproductive.
Mandi, I am sure that most people would agree with that :)
Having said that, I reserve the right to disagree and to try and convince others, or at least put my views on a subject that I believe in using logic, facts, past history and perhaps a bit of foresight :)
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Opinions vary don't they? Do you see that as a bad thing?
Never!
everyone is free to have an opinion and everyone is free to vote for who they like.
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some interesting thoughts above and I do respect peoples right to vote as they see fit. I simply cannot understand why some people vote the way they do - that is all.
I would like to say the following, however.
1 - work choices is dead. Don't listen to stupid idiotic union campaigns during elections. They only have their own members interests at heart and I even doubt that.
2 - we had a surplus of 21 Billion dollars in 2007. This was to be a fund for the future of Australia. Interest earned etc was to provide capital works and infra structure for years to come. It is now gone for my generation and possibly the next.
It is also now in debt at least 47+ Billion with another 57 Billion committed over the next 3 years so far. Add another 10 Billion for the independents and greens. who is going to pay for this - YOU.
3 - boat people. I don't want them and I don't want my taxes spent at the rate of up to $421 a day supporting each and every one of them. Add to that the resettlement costs, welfare and ongoing support and the figure is mindboggling. Could be spent on better things.
4 - I don't want the filter. Even google pulled out of china because of it's draconian filter and delivery of same. Rudds / Gillards / Conroys is not much different. See Poddy's explanation in the speed test thread.
5 - I couldn't give a rats arse about NBN and find it absolutely obscene to spend that much bringing it in. My life is not ruled by the internet. If it was stopped I'd go back to playing PS2 games or cards etc.
6 - I believe very strongly in an employer having the power to hire and fire. Why on earth would an employer want a dud employee. The mind boggles that a company can be held to ransom by unions over slack / inept employees.
7 - climate change - show me the science and show me how the carbon tax is going to help change a pattern that has gone on for millennia.
8 - I believe in lower taxes for everybody - not just the so called working families and battlers. If I work hard and earn heaps then I should be able to keep it ( I don't earn much by the way ). Why should I contribute more.
9 - I was born and bred in the country and raised on a farm surrounded by CP and LIB supporters all my life. They ( labor ) have never done anything for the farmers of any magnitude so why would I vote for them.
10 - fuel watch - hmmmmmm. I only ever use the same type of fuel - shell. Working in the industry has spared me the costs associated with the use of inferior fuels and chasing these discounted products. I will not chase prices. I will chase shell fuel which is served at Shell, Mobil and most BP's.
11 - Gough Whitlam - what can I say. Came to power when a mere 52,000 people were unemployed. Drove the country into debt and unemployment ran to 250,000 in less than 3 years. Tried to borrow money from o/seas and drive us into insurmountable debt and was sacked when supply couldn't be guaranteed.
12 - Bob hawke - nicest Liberal leader I ever saw - LOL. Even introduced the assets test for pensioners which is very anti Labor type thinking. Remember the drovers dog.
13 - Paul Keating, called people names like recalcitrants, referred to Australia as the arse end of the earth, touched up the queen and scored the highest ever interest rates in Australia's history. Also had the recession we had to have.
Krudd - spent money like it grew in orchards and borrowed from China, India, and wherever else he could get it. We may now held to ransom over this. He controlled the shots and his other 3 cronies and allowed the sitting members to become sitting ducks at election time.
Gillard - stabbed Krudd in the back, slept with Brown, sucked up to Windsor and has been returned to power with one of the largest swings against a sitting major party. Also has less of the PRIMARY vote than any previous leader of Australia. Simply does not deserve to be there.
There are many other points but I will get heated and angry as I sometimes do. I can't help it - I am passionate about what I believe.
Above is the reason I will never consider Labor and will forever scorn the greens and independents for what they have done. I won't see too many more elections but I would love to see this one fail and go belly up so we can put the last 3 years mess behind us all as quickly as possible. The mess is as I see it the School building program, the insulation fiasco, the laptop ill thought out plan etc and etc.
Just My Honest Opinion.
PS - everybody is entitled to their view.
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K-Rikey Wyze.... Your list nearly challenges Bob Katter's. I liked his too.
Agree with all your points - with the exception of Mr Rudd. Geeez I liked him when he first came to be. He was vital, energetic... a workaholic, and had some excellent ideas. He presented the only real alternative - and while people tell me that you vote for the party, not the man... that wasn't how the campaign was run. Gillard made me cranky when she used the description: 'my governments achievements', as I felt she was pinching Mr Rudd's work. He was the difference - not her. Paranoia set in unfortunately, and he became more of a one man band. I still believe he would have won.... had the panic merchants not pushed him out. Nonetheless - its history now.
My daughter STILL wants to know where her computer went. ;D
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R numbers, the computer is in silicone heaven, where all the caculators go :)
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WYSE,
seems to me that your 'opinions' or most of them are FACTS, now those are the sort of opinions that are hard to argue against :)
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(http://i673.photobucket.com/albums/vv93/ROBBIEWITHLUV/mouse-on-a-wheel.gif)
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Elantra, I am somewhat disappointed that you have chosen to interpret things as you have.
There are a number of people here who have firm convictions about certain subjects that may have been formed from several considerations. Some of those may be somewhat subjective, but there are others that come from inside information, direct experience and historical events.
There are a great many of those people who will also admit when they are wrong - or are willing to discuss where differences of opinion have been derived.
You wish to challenge a number of people here with: "What if you guy's are wrong!" - which is a fair enough question in itself - but you have shown even less interest in considering that very same question if it were asked of you.
Is it unfair that anybody here expects you to be as equally answerable to any statements and opinions you give - as much as you expect it of them? I hope you would say 'no', but it is important to understand this also extends to allowing others the right to their opinions.
It also extends into the idea that "maybe someone else knows something I don't". If I am wrong, please show me where, but you have not been particularly open to any comment that goes against your position on a number of topics.
For example, you have ignored several points made about the internet filter issue ... repeatedly.
On that subject, there are two major issues that I have a lot of trouble with - and there has been NO input from the advocates of the filter that have come close to addressing these issues, which are:
1. The filter won't fulfil the goal promised. While the technology has its issues, even assuming they can be adequately addressed, there are still a myriad of avenues NOT even mentioned in the filter that can be used to get to the same information. It's like putting a deadlock, a retinal scanner and video security on the front door, but leaving all your windows open, the patio door unlocked and the key sitting in the lock of the back door.
In a nutshell, if anybody wants to find all that stuff you talk about, THEY WILL. Just the same as you cannot make your car theft proof - if a thief wants it, it's gone! (All you can do is make it less attractive so they go find an easier target.)
But my biggest fear by several orders of magnitude is twofold:
2(a) The false sense of security. With the idea of a protective filter being 'sold' to the populace, all those who know no better or just want to be lazy about it, will abdicate ALL responsibility for the safekeeping of their children. They will think 'Oh, the Filter will protect them' and many will ignore any warning signs in the blind faith that the proponents of the Filter have 'sold' them. You wouldn't buy a used car that your mechanic neighbour said wouldn't last a week, just because the salesman said 'trust me' ... would you?
2(b) Not educating your children. This is so dangerous, I cannot begin to give it appropriate emphasis. The real world is out there and your kids are going to have to face it one day - completely on their own, with all the rights, responsibilities, risks and rewards that come with it. There are seedy, sinister, sadistic and simply dangerous elements out in the world that your kids WILL be exposed to and possibly have to deal with. Ignoring these realities because it's just too hard is a sure fire way to make their lives more difficult. They aren't going to recognise the warning signs - and if the unfortunate were to occur and they find themselves in the middle of something nasty, they're not going to be able to cope.
Now, if your immediate reaction is to indignantly decry me for advocating the widespread exposure of our kids to the ugliness of the world and abandon any morals or protection that is our duty to provide them - then you are exposing your fear of having to do that job yourself.
Now if you think that isn't an easy job, then you are right, but who best to guide your kids? The government? The school system? The church? While each of these institutions have their value and place, NONE are in the ideal position to give personal instruction ... but who is? Answer: Parents (and grandparents). Whether you realise it or not, as a parent you ARE teaching your kids - every day. Example is one thing they will learn from - and if your words are contrary to your actions, they will learn hypocrisy as well.
In my opinion, perhaps the most important part of a child's education is 'how to think for themselves'. Telling your child what to think is only appropriate until they are old enough to start working things out for themselves - welcome the infamous 'teenage years'. This is where they will rebel against being told what to think, what to do and what not to do - because their brain is working some things out for itself. I just hope they have been given some good guidelines on travelling this ground - because it can be pretty rough.
Your child will absorb information from a variety of sources, many of which you won't have any control over and there are going to be some things that you won't have ever come across, so giving them the skills to think on their feet will see them cope with scenarios you may never have dreamed of.
So, if you want to take the easy way out and take the government supplied cotton wool option (that you paid for), then you are giving away yet another responsibility and doing your kids a greater disservice. Not to mention that the cotton wool solution being presented by the government is akin to only covering the left arm, mouth, nose and right eyebrow. If it ever meets the cold hard light of day, there are going to be a lot of exposed bits.
As for the NBN, NOBODY here would argue against the idea of rolling out decent internet services to the whole population. NOBODY here would deny the necessity of these services for the future of the country. The objective of the NBN is a GREAT idea ... it's just that the solution offered has issues - the cost discrepancy being just one.
I am surprised that the Moderators have not stepped in.
Have you reported any posts? If so, was there any response? Have there been any violations of site rules?
It confirms that if you are not like minded here, you are not welcome.
No-one has suggested you are not welcome, elantra, just that they have different opinions. It does not help when you ignore rather pertinent points others make in their arguments.
But gee do you think it's possible that you could be wrong, sometimes?
Yep. Sure is - but forgive us if we want you to argue your case logically.... please. We have this failing - we like things to make sense, which includes all the bits behind them.
Or are egos too large to allow that?
There are quite a number here that will concede against valid argument - but none (that I know of) that will concede against a dummy spit.
You are free to do as you like, elantra, including posting here. The decision is yours, but if you leave because of the reasoning given here, then the ego problem is not ours.
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Loco,
My son got issued a '"lenova"" laptop/netbook last year. Grade 6, public school. Our committment is to pay the lease of $1 per week, for 3 years then we own it, (I think). There are certain obligations re damage/misuse. He kept it as he transferred to high school, year 7. My daughter at private school doesn't get one. I'm not really up with it. I thought EVERY kid was supposed to get one. So if they have stopped issuing them are the kids like my son just guinea pigs on some sort of trial? OH I meant "'knowledge navigators who attend open learning centres'" my bad.
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hey that is a good alternative to cole fired electricity generation, no carbon.
I wonder if Bob Brown has been shown that :)
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I think he knows about them Poddy, they are called gerbil's :)
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Whits tha brst way of geyting coffre out off koybored Gooldin.
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goldie
i thought that I was very clever copying a moving gif!!!
i guess i see opinions on politics as one big round and round and round ... and so on....
so it's a gerbil? and not a gerbra??
ps got the 1917 safe and sound tonight - thanks to you and poddums
(http://i673.photobucket.com/albums/vv93/ROBBIEWITHLUV/mouse-on-a-wheel.gif)
(http://i673.photobucket.com/albums/vv93/ROBBIEWITHLUV/th_gerbra.jpg) (http://s673.photobucket.com/albums/vv93/ROBBIEWITHLUV/?action=view¤t=gerbra.jpg)
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Elantra. "I have found the comfortable references to guns, Knives & rope a bit much.
I find the posts about guns and killing greens etc is quite threatening.
Plus the nasty emails, I don't need this."
I'm sorry that you feel uncomfortable with the above. Please realise that much of what is posted here is in jest & my reference to the Barrett 50 cal, keelhauling et al is in jest.
I spent many years in a difficult & stressful occupation & I had to be serious most if not all the time. I'm sure many others here have difficult & at times stressful occupations. When I retired a few years ago (early retirement due to ill health) I decided I would not be serious any more. You will note that I have not made any serious comment in relation to my political leanings on this or any other thread. I, like many others here, have fun.
I, and the other members of this forum, respect peoples right to have differing opinions however, I don't like it if posters tear others opinions or beliefs to bits. Fortunately this does not happen on the OZRT.
Admin does a mighty fine job on the OZRT and is very tolerant. In the early days of this forum there were several antagonistic members whose vitriolic & at times, acidic posts made it unpleasant for others. Admin wisely cancelled their memberships.
With regard to nasty emails, only admin should know the email address you have registered here & if these emails were private messages sent through this web site bring them to the attention of Admin. Nasty or abusive private messages are not in keeping with the spirit of the OZRT and should not be tolerated.
Elantra, sit back, pop a can of Pepsi Max (the elixir of the Gods) and enjoy the mateship & camaraderie that has formed on OZRT as it has developed since its inception. Your contributions to the OZRT are valued & respected.
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Lacey, while I may hold a different view to you on some topics, I would not ever dream of wanting to berate you for that. Yes it would be boring if we all thought the same. Our differences keep us on our toes and our minds working through our own reasoning when we try and explain to others.
Sometimes that can result in far more convincing arguments, then our predefined answers. (I've had a couple of those on these boards).
There is one point, though, that I'm not sure about : "preference votes should hold no place in our voting system. Majority rules."
My main reason is that the preferential voting system works by defining, by elimination, what the majority wants, while still counting EVERYBODY's vote all the way to the finish.
As a simple example, lets say we have:
Candidate A: 4,000 votes
Candidate B: 3,001 votes
Candidate C: 3,000 votes
Who wins? Candidate A? - but that's not the majority. The majority did NOT want Candidate A.
The only way to be (almost) assured of a majority is to have only two candidates. If we look at the above example, we can get two candidates from picking the two in front - but neither of them have a majority. So how can we get a majority?
What about the people who really wanted candidate C, but since that candidate can't win - is their opinion on the other two of no value? Are they to be excluded from deciding who is elected because they preferred someone who isn't in the last two? Is that fair?
How's this idea: Get all those (and only those) who voted for Candidate C to vote again - but only between Candidate A and Candidate B?
Isn't that fairer? and it would give the winning candidate a clear majority, too!
Then there would be no argument, would there?
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Since it seems that we have all agreed that name calling is stupid (well I agreed) lets also stop calling anyone that voted greens a commie, that is offensive
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Since it seems that we have all agreed that name calling is stupid (well I agreed) lets also stop calling anyone that voted greens a commie, that is offensive
I must agree with that sort of categorisation in a derogatory way.
If someone's opinion is that there are particular elements involved, there are more constructive ways of presenting that.
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thanks mum - good point
but
i think the setting is like this
if i am offended then i have to go through some sort of ten page inquisition to explain about and humbly apologise for, being so fragile, as to be offended for having my own sense of rational convictions - as i see them
...
(http://i673.photobucket.com/albums/vv93/ROBBIEWITHLUV/now-remember-mouse-cat-gerbil-wash-food-demotivational-poster-1247605710.jpg)
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Very good Brum6y I see your point. My reason for saying it was a few years ago, a labor or liberal give their worst enemy their votes, so that pauline hanson? couldn't win. I don't recall all of it. i have a bad memory but I do recall there was a lot of angry ppl, me one of them, at how almost sworn anemies could give their votes to the other party.
Yes MM I agree, it is offensive. name calling should have no place here, no matter who said it.
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Bring back Mish....
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Bring back Customs duties to protect Australian industries & farming. It would also be a revenue raiser for the government & then just maybe a few of the taxes that are hurting many Australians could be eased but, there goes one of those flying pigs!
:pigsfly:
This is exactly what I believe in. Gough whitlam started it all but, the Lib weren't any better, because they did't stop it when they got into power.
Yep pigs!
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The voting system is pretty fair - and completely transparent. What the parties do though, is another story.
In some ways it's kinda stupid, because it doesn't matter what numbers you put where when it comes down to your classic Liberal - Labor contested seat, where these two parties are the only ones that are really in the running. If you put a '4' against Labor and a '5' against the Libs, then it's a Labor vote. If you put '6' against the Liberal and a '7' against Labor, then it's a Liberal vote.
The other thing I find quite funny, is that ALL the parties talk about 'directing their preferences' as if they had the power to do so - BUT THEY DON'T ... well, not directly. The only 'power' they have is by printing up their 'how to vote' cards and have voters simply follow these. As a voter, you can put whatever numbers you want in whatever squares you want, just as long as you follow the rules: Consecutive numbers, starting at 1 with no missing or duplicated numbers.
A few years ago I worked in a polling booth as an 'official', checking the roll and handing out ballot papers. There were representatives from the candidates who float around making sure nothing improper is going on and seeing if they can get a feel of how things are going. They are called 'scrutineers'. They have a fair amount of freedom - but they aren't allowed to touch any ballot papers or interfere with voting. After the doors close, the initial counting is done and the scrutineers are hovering with great interest. They can look at the ballot papers, point, ask questions - but again, they cannot touch any ballot papers or interfere.
Once, a scrutineer noticed a vote that someone had marked in an order that was clearly not a standard 'how to vote' card sequence and, although it was done quite correctly, the scrutineer stated that the person had 'wasted their vote'. I was tempted to correct him in no uncertain terms, but didn't - because his opinion didn't matter. The voter spelled out exactly what they wanted and their vote would be counted in exactly that way. Sometimes bureaucratic processes are a good thing.
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Even if we all voted for the same party, we would still have a robust debate/argument over that. We are all from different age groups and areas. Its more likely Gen Y are screaming for the NBN, as they are first time voters and it matters to them. Others are older and more interested in aged care, health, retirement. Others fall in the middle and have concerns over the cost of living/employment/education.. so there would be many debates over where the money is best spent.
Elantra I've blown up on here before, the next day its forgotten. Everyones opinion counts.
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We really should have a sword caretaker around here to pick up all these loose swords left lying around... every so often some one seems to fall on one...
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I don't know if it's a real problem Yib - these days people who do that seem to go out of their way to find one.
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Now Mum i wouldn't call Green voters commies but socialists - yes.
have a look at their economic policies - hope not too many of these become a reality.
http://greens.org.au/policies/sustainable-economy/economics (http://greens.org.au/policies/sustainable-economy/economics)
Points 3, 7, 9, 22, 23, 26 and 29 are scary. Stifling of business and trade, cutting off those who want to be successful and point 23 - death duties, gawd !
point 26 is the crucial one however as any company falling under these tax arrangements will pass on the cost to the consumer - as you would. This will effect gas, fuel, power and other essential utilities. These added costs will also drive up any product that uses the above in it's manufacturing or delivery process. It is a simple fact that if they drive this one through Julia then we will be wishing we were in another country.
;D
PS - I daren't look at their social policies
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Neil Mitchell a presenter on a Melbourne radio show used to call the Greens "the fairies at the bottom of the garden" .... I think they have evolved from Fairies to ghouls now...
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Now Mum i wouldn't call Green voters commies but socialists - yes.
have a look at their economic policies - hope not too many of these become a reality.
http://greens.org.au/policies/sustainable-economy/economics (http://greens.org.au/policies/sustainable-economy/economics)
Points 3, 7, 9, 22, 23, 26 and 29 are scary. Stifling of business and trade, cutting off those who want to be successful and point 23 - death duties, gawd !
point 26 is the crucial one however as any company falling under these tax arrangements will pass on the cost to the consumer - as you would. This will effect gas, fuel, power and other essential utilities. These added costs will also drive up any product that uses the above in it's manufacturing or delivery process. It is a simple fact that if they drive this one through Julia then we will be wishing we were in another country.
;D
PS - I daren't look at their social policies
I did not vote for the greens - but my son did. I dont agree with a lot of their policies, but I am still glad they are there
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You are quite right Golden.
... and to anyone who may be interested, I have had a member or two share a few things in PM (which is not my business to discuss) - but did put a new light on why certain comments were made.
Elantra, you might be a little more open minded if you only knew some of the backgrounds of people here.
I know I am aware of a very small portion of some things of some people, I have picked up on some subtleties with others and I am very mindful of the fact that there is an extremely large amount that I do not know.
I remember in one thread on the old Round Table on eBay, there was a discussion which featured two posters - one was young numpty, full of themselves and they were arguing a point of law, taking up a stance that even I thought was 'out there'. The other was a qualified and experienced law practitioner of some 30 or 40 years - and quite knowledgeable the field being discussed.
The numpty wouldn't listen - and the more they went on, the more idiotic they painted themselves, especially to those of us who had paid attention and knew the background of their opponent.
You just never know who you are arguing with.....
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I wonder if the nasty emails are coming from a posting member??? I have trouble with that, very sneaky sending nasty PM and if it is coming from the usual posters that is worse..........and why would you send an email, just post it if you are feeling like a stoush up!
WHO was it that said something about putting a gun in your mouth and pulling the trigger.......
I , for some reason "cringed" at that comment, you never know who that might be " too close to home" for and I am mindful of other posters, well try to be. but I let it ride as most of us do.
Whilst we slowly get to know a little about each other, it is very simple, if you don't like the heat get out of the kitchen.
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I feel neglected... I haven't received any nasty or abusive emails... how does one go about being abused ? the closest I've come is " Is that a pluto pup in your pocket or are you having naughty thoughts about me ? " .... I'm complaining to Admin... I'm just as abusable as anyone here !....
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an attractive middle aged lady at my old work used to complain bitterly at every opportunity that she was never sexually harassed - lol.
She was just having a laugh at herself and the system. The system doesn't suit everybody - only a small minority she used to say.
Perhaps there is a message here.
;D
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Yibster , would you like me to rectify the situation for you ?
you can sign up to a Smee Enterprises abusive email service ,subription is only $20 for the month or $200 for the entire year , if you want your abuse in teal colour there is a 25% loading
Just give me the nod and I will send you a free sample you snotty faced man odorous pervert
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The system doesn't suit everybody - only a small minority she used to say.
Perhaps there is a message here.
;D
Was this the message?? p.s. (I didn't get one reply about all the TOP chefs being male :feminist: )
[attachment deleted by admin]
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Golden. Apparently the greatest pastry chefs in the world are blokes as they have colder hands than wimmen.
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I know a bloke who is a pastry chef
one day he was in the kitchen preparing a nice large apple pie
just prior to whacking it in the oven
he removed his dentures and used them to crimp around the edge of the pastry
the head chef saw this and in typiical Gordon Ramsay style yelled out
hey Chef dont you have a FELAFEL U##@%@ tool you can use ?
yes he replied but I use that for the donuts
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Good one Smee!
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Just remember peoples, men have a habit of not washing hands :chef: see?