Oz Round Table

The Oz Round Table boards => The Round Table => Topic started by: bnwt on July 09, 2010, 09:09:10 AM

Title: The ELECTION Thread
Post by: bnwt on July 09, 2010, 09:09:10 AM
well checking results from early counting the booths are showing a 10% two party preferred swing to having an election thread


so here it is
Title: Re: The ELECTION Thread
Post by: bnwt on July 09, 2010, 09:33:41 AM
David Tench Tonight - Julia Gillard


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=13T85h-IQdI
Title: Re: The ELECTION Thread
Post by: bnwt on July 09, 2010, 09:55:03 AM
Gillard pulls back from Timor solution


http://www2.skynews.com.au/topstories/article.aspx?id=482565&articleID=1586924
Title: Re: The ELECTION Thread
Post by: bnwt on July 09, 2010, 11:43:31 AM
Fantasy Island


http://www.couriermail.com.au/news/prime-minister-julia-gillard-backs-away-from-plan-for-east-timor-processing-centre-for-asylum-seekers/story-e6freon6-1225889444149

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Title: Re: The ELECTION Thread
Post by: bnwt on July 09, 2010, 12:51:15 PM
Gillard escapes egging as protest boils over


http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2010/07/09/2949175.htm
Title: Re: The ELECTION Thread
Post by: bnwt on July 09, 2010, 01:13:39 PM
Conroy backs down on net filters


http://www.smh.com.au/technology/technology-news/conroy-backs-down-on-net-filters-20100709-10381.html


my head is spinning from the never ending backflips
Title: Re: The ELECTION Thread
Post by: mandurahmum on July 09, 2010, 06:16:09 PM
Well hold on - there is going to be a lot of backflips - there always are regardless of which party is in power or in opposition.

I am just glad our election campaigns are normally short - I could not stand the way they do it in the States.
Title: Re: The ELECTION Thread
Post by: bnwt on July 09, 2010, 07:01:10 PM
.

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Title: Re: The ELECTION Thread
Post by: mandurahmum on July 09, 2010, 08:33:38 PM
I am doing my own backflip now - i will not be supporting the Labor government in the federal election after hearing that they have green lighted oil drilling off Margaret River. 
Title: Re: The ELECTION Thread
Post by: bnwt on July 11, 2010, 10:04:20 AM
Retail crisis flags end of good times


http://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/news/opinion/retail-crisis-flagsendof-good-times/story-e6frezz0-1225890191580
Title: Re: The ELECTION Thread
Post by: bnwt on July 12, 2010, 03:52:21 PM
smh 12.07.2010


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Title: Re: The ELECTION Thread
Post by: bnwt on July 12, 2010, 05:57:24 PM
Oh Dear


http://www.smh.com.au/national/east-timor-rejects-gillard-plan-20100712-107p5.html
Title: Re: The ELECTION Thread
Post by: Rebel*1* on July 12, 2010, 07:47:48 PM
LOL...sorry, is this an anti ALP thread on the elections?  Subscriptions to Tony Abbott the original ankle tapper of the Liberal party welcome?  The man who Had an opposing party leader JAILED with his endless malicious pursuit of that person? and sanctioned by the Govt of the time?  Jailed?  Really?  "Please Explain" ?????? 

Yet some think he's a viable alternative as the leader of this country?  How far down in the barrel is the Coalition government willing to reach?  Turnbull was a FAR better candidate and what did they do to him on the basis of fickle 'POPULARITY'?  And some point the finger at the Labour party for being as fickle as their opponents?  Seems to me it's the political CULTURE these days. 

Would it surprise some to know that it renders right thinking people 'fearful' on a socially and morally responsible level that the likes of Tony Abbot might be elected to run this country? After 12 years of little Johnny favouring BIG BUSINESS at our expense collectively?  Please !!!  As right as you liberals think you are, ALP voters think differently.  Can you come at that? Can you even respect a socially responsible approach to Govt? in addition to a Financially responsible approach that Liberals could offer in a true Bi-partison approach to the needs of all AUSTRALIANS irrespective of political pissing posts?

No wonder this Govt has been screwed.  Tony Abbot and his merry  mates are ruling the media (in opposition no less?)  Wonder where the media leanings are eh? objective? hardly,  and stomping them at every turn.  The Liberal adds are offensive to say the least.  Give me a break...so where's the 'FAIR GO'?.  Australia's infrastructure is dying under the strain and yet we are receiving 1.00 in 7.00 for our un-renewable mineral resources?  give me a break !!!! It's just Rape !!! 

BIG PICTURE PEOPLE !!! WE, the Australian people OWN those resources.  We should be getting 3.00 in 7.00 not 1.00 in 7.00.  And yet some want to defend the mining industry literally raping the Australian people for profit and thereby necessary infrastructure upgrade??????   Please !!!! Think about the collective good, not just personal gain. 

Tony Abbot is NOT a suitable leader of this country.  He was one of the original ankle tappers of the Coalition Howard Govt., Along with Hockey and Reith ?  Care to debate their activities in days gone by?

The 'anything is justifiable for a dollar' philosophy?  It's just NOT ok.

I wouldn't elect Tony Abbott on a BAD HAIR DAY.  His history says it all.  His mentor robbed infrastructure for 12 years.  Want to know how?  And you want to hand over rulership of the country to Tony Abbot the toe cutter?  Please.  Think long term. Australians should be reimbursed for the profit these mining companies make from raping our UN-RENEWABLE resources.  POWER TO THE PEOPLE !!! At the bloody least.  Anything for a buck?  Welcome to the machine.

Please at least try to be objective !!!

Title: Re: The ELECTION Thread
Post by: Rebel*1* on July 12, 2010, 08:08:24 PM
i.e any critiques on Abbots many failings ?  or is this all about downing the ALP?  hey, just asking, all things being objective and in respect of us being a democracy, that respects and includes MANY opinions.  ??? All I've seen so far is the Coalition interfering with our elected Govt at every possible turn, via their power & influence with Big business and  thereby MEDIA. !!!!

should we go looking for negative articles about Tony Abbot and the Coalition in this 'great debate' of the future of ALL Australians and their 'fair share'? 

DO WE NEED INFRASTRUCTURE INVESTMENT IRRESPECTIVE OF POLITICAL LEANINGS?  If yes is your answer then WE the Australian people, have MORE power than any political party.  Just saying...we outnumber em !!!  Isn't it time we demanded MUCH NEEDED NATIONAL infrastructure investment irrespective of who's in Govt?  So far, I haven't heard a peep about our share...have you??
Title: Re: The ELECTION Thread
Post by: Rebel*1* on July 12, 2010, 08:27:44 PM
Oh, and BTW, would it surprise some that many Australians find the Coalitions obsessions with placing asylum seekers at risk by towing boats out to sea...more than a little OFFENSIVE? and devoid of any human kindness in this GLOBAL world/marketplace we so aspire to? So, for PROFIT, anything is justifiable, (including the Gulf of Mexico's abstract destruction including all aligned tidal recipients of capitalism's real cost) but for human rights or moral 'global' obligation, all bets are off?   Sorry, if your life is being threatened, at the very least, you can expect anyone to TRY to survive?  NO?  So why do we treat people just trying to survive in this GLOBAL COMMUNITY like criminals?  Would you try to survive?  Would you try to save your family at the hands of a dominant regime that might otherwise kill them and you?  Would YOU try to flee such a regime?  Then does anyone wonder why they take such risks??

 Meanwhile Tony Abbot is taking a largely 'ignorant,uncharitable' but nonetheless, PUNITIVE and risky approach to human rights?  Think about that.  Do you want to be complicit in such indifference?  If you actually care about the life and death of others, then let him know.  These people need support.

What would you do if your life (and your children's lives) were threatened in your country of birth?  Can you even imagine it?  and more importantly, can you have respect for those who have faced death at the hands of a dominant regime and taken less obvious risks to free their families/children from that risk??  Prolly not?, then spare a thought for those who have !!!  JMO  Be  Kind above all else and thereby help to preserve basic natural justice.  Above all else, we deserve to live in peace.. Yes even asylum seekers of which this country has been host to many over the decades..  Fair Go and all that nostalgia.  That;s the very least we can do, and along the way, consider and how rich our ethnic mates have made this country !!!  There's room for more.
Title: Re: The ELECTION Thread
Post by: *Brum6y* on July 12, 2010, 10:11:49 PM
Rebel*1* - as valid as some points you make may be, you oversell it. There are huge gaps in your logic and it is sounding like socialist propaganda.

For example, you would have us believe EVERY boat person is in dire need - when we know they are not - and you make no reference to the formal processes which, amongst other things, seek to identify such circumstances.


The rest of that last post is purely an attempt at pushing a 'guilt trip' on people.  It is, actually, rather counter-productive. People are becoming desensitised to this 70's style hysteria.


And before you go off at me - YOU HAVE ABSOLUTELY NO IDEA of my participation in these matters. So I would suggest care in your responses.....
Title: Re: The ELECTION Thread
Post by: bnwt on July 12, 2010, 10:18:49 PM
while it would appear I am pro Liberal ......... let me state quite clearly I am not

but I am certainly anti Labor and even more so the greens but that's another story

the thing that really craps me off about the labor party is the pretence that they are the party of the worker yet they use every underhanded gutter tactic to get into power .. they gleefully bypass democracy to achieve their ends

need I draw your attention to their most recent assassination and by who ???   the head of the AWU  who ??? considering that less the 15% of Australians workers are members of a trade union the head of the AWU represents no one

and as for the Liberals owning the media, thankfully there is a contrary opinion being express to give the other side of the coin compared to the utterly leftie biased ABC (Australian Broadcasting Commies) or SBS ... again a tiny minority forcing their will on the entire country just like trade unions

no political party will have the miracle cure ... after all they are run by politicians

just like Julia Caesar who will say and promise anything to stay in power

what I would really relish is seeing 2 Labor Prime Ministers going down in a matter of two months







Title: Re: The ELECTION Thread
Post by: shyer on July 13, 2010, 10:38:35 AM
Rebel*1* - as valid as some points you make may be, you oversell it. There are huge gaps in your logic and it is sounding like socialist propaganda.......

Brumby hear hear but true believers always come out of the woodwork, come election time you finally get to see the termites, hidding and destroying the rest of the years. I am pro Liberal and feel Abbott deserves a go it is the party you in effect ellect .

The difference bettween labour and liberal is small in the broad scale of things, the difference between greens and one nation however is large.

I am reminded of the old joke;

If you have not once voted labour by the time you are 30, you do not have a heart.


If you always vote labour after you are 40 you do not have a brain.
Title: Re: The ELECTION Thread
Post by: Rebel*1* on July 13, 2010, 02:45:07 PM
For example, you would have us believe EVERY boat person is in dire need - when we know they are not - and you make no reference to the formal processes which, amongst other things, seek to identify such circumstances.

Sorry, how do WE know they are not?  Is there media stories (supported by fact) highlighting that they are not? or is it just suspicion and generalisation ?  Further, I am not arguing that refugees should not be formally processed.  It goes without saying, but clearly today's politicians haven't got a clue about achieving that humanely or expediently. 

It's not like this is a new phenomenon or a crisis limited to Australia only.  It's a global humanitarian issue, and certainly not an election show bag filler.

As for Guilt trips, and hysteria, that type of response is reasonably unintelligent and subjective.  My comments were general, not aimed at you in particular.  Do you find it necessary to personally offend someone because their views differ from yours Brumby?  i.e.Trade insults instead of intellect? and by comparison that's more Productive?

Quite ironically, the 70's have a hell of a lot to do with the current 'boat people' hysteria (and the origin of that term) now that you mention it, though I realise you were meaning something else in your reference to the same era.

Ironically, Even then, Australians were being fed the same fear based propaganda about the 'yellow peril' and fear campaigns abounded about being 'overrun' by boat people.     

Some might remember, that In the last days before the fall of Saigon to the communists in 1975, The Americans and Australians tried to evacuate as many people as possible, but many were left behind.

For years, Vietnamese people were leaving the country any way they could. In desperation thousands of families climbed aboard flimsy, overcrowded boats to escape to other countries.   Many died in the process.  So yes, I'd call that reasonably 'dire'.

Most of the boats went to Malaysia, Indonesia, Thailand and Hong Kong.  Australia was hardly being overrun by comparison to other Countries, either then or now.

According to media accounts of the time, One day in Hong Kong could see the arrival of 2000 people in the harbour, with no money, no possessions and sometimes suffering from highly-infectious diseases like typhus and cholera. The refugees were left in the camps, sometimes for years, while foreign governments argued over how to deal with the situation. 

The one key difference back then in Australia, was Malcolm Frasers handling of the issue, which apparently also surprised his 'right wing' colleagues. 

According to 1977 cabinet documents, the Fraser government adopted a formal policy for a humanitarian commitment to admit refugees for resettlement. Fraser in fact expanded immigration from Asian countries and allowed more refugees to enter Australia.  He didn't suggest towing 'boat people' out to sea, or treating them as criminals.  Perhaps Mr. Abbott could learn a lot from Malcolm Fraser in this regard. 

However, nothing any one individual country did even back then, was making a dent in camp populations.  It needed a concerted effort from as many countries as possible to make a difference.  Just as it does now. 

In 1979 the United Nations stepped in and set up the 'Orderly Departure Program' with America, Australia, Britain and Canada accepting large numbers of Indo-Chinese refugees.  This was specifically aimed at processing people through official immigration channels to stop 'people smuggling' by boat, as the only other viable alternative for resettlement.

Obviously we need another innovative regional/global approach such as the Vietnamese example, not more 'boat people' hysteria. 

Does anyone imagine that anything has changed in 35 years?  There are now more displaced persons and refugees worldwide living in camps than there were in the '70's.  Progress?

Wherever there is conflict there will be refugees fleeing from that conflict.  Isn't it about time that we just accepted that and dealt with it devoid of the constant hysteria?  It's a fact of life.  In fact, let's just stop having wars, that might help.  Here's the current picture :

    * The Middle East has the highest number of refugees and IDPs (Internally Displace Persons): a staggering 4.2 million. Palestinians, Afghanis and Iraqis make up the majority of the uprooted population.
    * With 3.2 million refugees and IDPs, Africa has the second highest number. Refugees from Sudan are the largest group, scattered throughout the camps in various countries.
    * Almost 2 million refugees and IDPs live in south and central Asia, with over 1 million Afghanis in Pakistan alone.

Correct me if I'm wrong. (As I'm sure you'll do regardless), but isn't Julia Gillard attempting to broker a 'regional solution' to the problem? not unlike the Fraser Govt's approach?  Taking both the 'push' and 'pull' factors into account?  Just saying.
Title: Re: The ELECTION Thread
Post by: bnwt on July 13, 2010, 04:49:54 PM
Oh No


http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2010/07/13/2952478.htm
Title: Re: The ELECTION Thread
Post by: *Brum6y* on July 13, 2010, 08:53:21 PM
I have tried to be fair to you Rebel*1* - and inform you how your style of presentation comes across (to me at least). It is doing more harm to the cause you are championing, because of that.

I've spent more than an hour or two doing work for the UNHCR, so I am well aware of the problems faced by refugees, but I am also aware of some of the administrative realities.  The passion you demonstrate is needed, but your presentation turns people off. Desensitisation is a major problem that doesn't need reinforcement.

I will agree, though, that politicians could learn the meaning of the word 'expedient'.



Do you find it necessary to personally offend someone because their views differ from yours Brumby?  i.e.Trade insults instead of intellect?


My statements were rather objective I thought - however, if you choose to interpret them as insulting, then I find it impossible to understand how to conduct a discussion with someone who finds a differing view offensive. (Notice I did not say opposing.)

Also, the altering of the context of some of my comments shows a complete disrespect for the logic of discussion and, from previous experience, those that choose to do so have never shown any interest in understanding the problem in doing that.

One example, just so it is clear to others what I mean, is that the word 'dire' is used in a completely different context to that in which I used it - a fact highlighted by it appearing six paragraphs after the closest reference to the original subject.


These exchanges are less of a discussion and more like a speech - with hecklers… so I might be inclined to hold my tongue and leave the 'heckling' for someone else.
Title: Re: The ELECTION Thread
Post by: mandurahmum on July 14, 2010, 02:44:43 AM
I certainly dont want Tony Abbott to be Prime Minister - I can think of nothing worse.  I am hoping that he does not win his own seat - personally I would love to see Austen Tayshus win the seat from him.

But until Julia says that she will redlight the greenlight she gave to oil drilling in Margaret River and Off the Kimberley - then she will not get my vote.  I would also like her to overturn the lift on the ban for Uranium Mining in this state.  I am not opposed to mining - but some places and things should be left alone imo.

I honestly dont know what we can do about boatpeople  - they will always come.  However I do think that we have a responsibility first to those families living in refugee camps for years first.  These are the ones that dont have the money to pay a scum smuggler any money.  It also scares me that  when most illegal refugees come here - they have no proof of who they are - that scares me as we have not had a terrorist attack here yet - and I honestly do think we are going to suffer one.  I do feel sorry for anyone who has to leave their home and country because of conflict -  I cant imagine that.  It also worries me that most boat people are young men, whereas if it is that bad why are they leaving their families behind.  But that is just my opinion.

Title: Re: The ELECTION Thread
Post by: mandurahmum on July 14, 2010, 02:55:22 AM
One thing that I think makes Waussies feel like our votes dont really matter - is that the results of federal elections is normally being broadcast before our polling booths are even closed.  And they normally know who is going to win by 8pm est - our votes have not even been counted by then
Title: Re: The ELECTION Thread
Post by: bnwt on July 14, 2010, 09:28:03 AM
Robertson is currently held by Belinda "don't you know who I am" Neal

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Title: Re: The ELECTION Thread
Post by: bnwt on July 14, 2010, 10:24:24 AM
I have to say what has really surprised me is the comments written by readers of online newspaper etc

and I don't just read those of what could be considered right wing leaning publications, I read them all (got plenty of time on my hands as I am not doing any eBay sales)

even the readers of ABC stories are leaving overwhelmingly negative comments about Labor and in particular Julia Caesar

in the last days of Krudd is was around 75/25 against now it's more like 98/2

I'm not sure what bearing this might have on the election results but it is extremely interesting to observe
Title: Re: The ELECTION Thread
Post by: Rebel*1* on July 14, 2010, 03:28:09 PM
I have tried to be fair to you Rebel*1* - and inform you how your style of presentation comes across (to me at least). It is doing more harm to the cause you are championing, because of that.

Brumby, really, that sounds so arrogant.  I'm not championing any cause, just having a say on issues that are relevant to me as an Australian Citizen.  I really don't care whether you choose to be 'fair' or not. If you feel you must be 'unfair', then go for it.    So what if you don't like my style of communication?  It won't keep me up at night, and at least I'm willing to have an opinion on these issues.     

However I do think that we have a responsibility first to those families living in refugee camps for years first. 

I agree MM, but most of the people trying to get here by boat have been in camps for years, whilst every Govt sits on their thumbs doing nothing to process them in an expedient manner.   

How about we start discussing the END of this silly war and getting Iraqi and Afghan people repatriated?   i.e. deal with the 'PUSH' factors and invest the many billions being pumped into this ridiculous War, into re-building these societies so people can go home.   There are 1 Million Afghani refugees in Pakistan camps alone, and we think we have a crisis with boat people?  really?  Isn't that a tad hysterical by comparison to the influx into other countries? I'm referring to media generated hysteria MM, not your comments.

If the UN and our Allies/neighbours implemented a similar 'Orderly Departure Program" Under a 'Human Rights' banner, with 'Temporary Protection Visa's only, to clear some of these camps of their long term residents, then perhaps the pull factors for 'boat people' would be also diminished along with the human suffering and ultimate risk.   

I'm sure we are all concerned that terrorism might raise its head here too, but is this kind of 'fear' factor justified? and can we therefore ignore human suffering on a 'just in case' basis?  All we (and other Countries) need offer is 'safe harbour' not necessarily permanent citizenship. 

Do the concerns over terrorism, also include those fleeing Sri Lanka? We have as many coming from there as we do Middle Eastern cultures but their situation is quite different. 

I'm not saying Australia can solve the problem, we can't, not without UN involvement and support of other countries.  But Abbott is misleading the Australian people into believing that Gillard can somehow magically pull a rabbit out of her hat and fix the World's refugee crisis overnight?   Please.  Perhaps he can slip over to Pakistan and tell them how it's done while he's at it?

Title: Re: The ELECTION Thread
Post by: mandurahmum on July 14, 2010, 07:58:22 PM
I dont think most of the boat people have spent years in refugee camps - and if they were - where did they get the money to pay the smugglers.  Most people in refugee camps have nothing - not even enough food.

I would love to discuss the end of the 2 wars we are in - but I cant see it.  You see I dont think we can win the win - in fact I dont know why we are there in the first place.  We entered Iraq on false pretenses, as most will agree, there were no weapons of mass destruction.  We believed the "intelligence' rather than believe Hans Blix - who was there.  As for Afghanistan - I dont think we will win this war - but I dont think the US will ever admit this - it will be another Vietnam.  I also doubt they will ever find Osama Bin Laden - I think he is probably in Pakistan.

Rebel - you ask whether the threat of a terrorist attack here is a real concern, well yes it is - do you remember that some terrorist cell wanted to attack us at the 2005 afl grand final.  Could you imagine what would have happened if this occurred.  I do think it is a real possibility that more attacks are being planned, and eventually one may happen. 

As for the Sri Lankan boat people - some we know are former members of the Tamil Tigers - who were responsible for terrorist attacks in Sri Lanka.

I also think that on boat people - we have to be a lot tougher - we must turn these boats back the moment they enter our waters.  These boats are unseaworthy and by not turning them back - we are only encouraging the smugglers.  And maybe because of this - we are responsible for any deaths that occur on these boats., because we are not doing enough to discourage them.

I dont think there is an answer to the problem of boat people - but it certainly takes our focus away from over stayers in this country - a much bigger problem.   

There will always be refugees in the world - there will always be wars and now we have countries that the sea will reclaim.  There will also be people who are affected by mother nature - just look at those poor people in Haiti.

Tony Abbot has no solutions - he can brag about the surplus the Liberal Government had as much as he wants - but its easy to save money when your not spending it where it needs to be spent.  As the Health Minister he failed us - he put a freeze on doctor numbers - which was just ridiculous - we needed more doctors if anything - and still do.
Title: Re: The ELECTION Thread
Post by: Rebel*1* on July 14, 2010, 09:35:01 PM
I'm not sure what bearing this might have on the election results but it is extremely interesting to observe

No offense intended to you bnwt, I don't hold your political leanings against you and neither should you hold my opinions against me.  Like MM, I tend to vote on the issues not the Party.  Both sides have much to offer and much to criticise.  Do we agree on that much? 

But seriously, Tony Abbott as Prime Minister?  Fair Dinkum?  Please, I would have preferred Turnbull actually. At least he offered an intelligent and untarnished alternative perhaps.  But Abbott?  Even Costello would have been a MUCH better candidate.  And to think Hockey also ran for the leadership position?  Is that the best they can do?  And yet they criticise the present Govt ?  *shreak*

Nevertheless, while it might be interesting to observe ignorance in action, I doubt the misinformed prejudices of the vocal minority online will have much impact on this election.  The only poll worth worrying about is therefore, the Federal election itself, where we all get to vote on who we think represents reality, not fantasy.   Bring it on I say.

I just spent a few hours at a going away party for a local business couple who ran the town Post Office, and who threw a bash at the pub for their customers and mates.     

There I met a woman who I considered to be an 'elder', and who I spent an hour with, talking about this very issue.  She's a wise old owl, with a great deal of history to share, and which I listened to with great interest.  She was born before the second world war and even as a young girl, remembered all its refugees, right through every other war since, and to a different war now and just as many refugees.  You could see the look of 'same shite different day' etched on her face.    Some things never change do they?  War = refugees.   

She's seen much more than I, but in this issue of 'boat people' hysteria as an election issue (as unbelievable as it seems), we had to agree, that it stands to reason that (as with every other war before it) the Vietnam war produced huge numbers of refugees, and the current war in the Middle east is also producing refugees from Iraq and Afghanistan. So MM, you are right on the nail with that observation.  It is Vietnam all over again isn't it?  Why are we there exactly?

Similarly, the neverending civil war in Sri Lanka has produced hundreds of thousands of IDP's who all want to flee what they see as tyranny. We have no part in that one, but we can't ignore the 'push' factors if we want to solve the issue of 'Tamil Boat People' can we?   

MM, no offense but for the sake of a few Tamil Tigers amongst the refugees (politics we really don't have a first hand knowledge of), should the Tamils themselves (as an ethnic group) be abandoned?  The present Govt is apparently no better from what I've read mate.    Hey and that's only two of the countries housing massive numbers of IDP's & refugees. There are around 26 current conflicts Worldwide, with huge numbers fleeing those conflicts.  sheesh.  wouldn't you?  We only get those who can reach our shores.  Not a huge problem for us is it?  Hardly an election issue is it?  I think Mining is MUCH more important in this election don't you MM?

Nevertheless, in the 'boat people' issue, these are the 'Push' factors that Abbott is trying to ignore and underestimate at Gillards expense, just to get elected? And then what ? toughen the borders against refugees in contradiction to our Humanitarian obligations under the UN? really?.  Who would seriously consider doing that? 

The previous generations never did.  Don't we have an obligation to help solve the fall out & CIVILIAN casualties of a war we have and still do take part in for our US allies?  Or are we part of the problem?  Is that Australian?  surely not.  We should be hammering the US to help clean up the mess they've created and help their allies resettle these people as we all did after the Vietnam war.  JMO.

As you also observe MM, No policy, or 'political spin' is going to solve this problem, (or the mining issue) there is no 'quick fix', there never has been.  As long as there are wars, there will be boat people if they can reach our shores and anyone elses.  As long as there is mining they will try to dominate us and our Govt to gain access to our resources at the cheapest possible price.  They don't give a shite about the destruction they leave behind.  (See Gulf of Mexico for a snap shot of what can happen in the name of profit)

Just once, I'd like to see a woman take the helm.  I think many will give Gillard the benefit of the doubt, and see if she is able to take a longer term (realistic) approach to issues like refugees, mining, environment, economy, equity for Australian people, hey even the estimated 105,000 Australians sleeping rough each night.  Let's not forget our own backyard full of Aussie IDP'S with no refugee camp to call home.

As I've said previously, I think Abbott could learn a lot from Malcolm Frasers approach to the same problem.  At least he has REAL experience in these types of diplomatic negotiations in the face of a mass exodus of refugees of war.  He would lend credibility to this debate at least, but Abbott relies on Howard?  please.  Who's really being elected here?  A defacto Howard Govt?  It's a humanitarian crisis, not an election issue.  Shame on all of them.


 
Title: Re: The ELECTION Thread
Post by: *r3830* on July 14, 2010, 09:42:31 PM
Dare I suggest BNWT.... Dear...Oh Bloody Dear!

Having been a happy tourist in Sri Lanka during the early eighties, and having entered a country that was in unrest, that became under the grip of martial law... and under 19Hrs / day curfew, and having seen the bodies of the townsfolk who had been shot - burning on piles of car tyres in the streets, and being connected to a number of journalists, learning that the death toll was running into the many thousands.... and not hundreds as reported by the government, and having been told by army personnel not to travel to the north of the country, lest we be killed by the Tigers to bring our country into involvement, and having, some weeks later, walked a gauntlet outlined with soldiers armed with machine guns....... I now learn that we are going to let these perpetrators in here - to Australia!

Enough said!


http://www.theaustralian.com.au/news/nation/half-of-sri-lankan-arrivals-have-ties-to-tigers/story-e6frg6nf-1225891388934
 (http://www.theaustralian.com.au/news/nation/half-of-sri-lankan-arrivals-have-ties-to-tigers/story-e6frg6nf-1225891388934)
Title: Re: The ELECTION Thread
Post by: mandurahmum on July 14, 2010, 10:01:48 PM
I do think Mining is more of an election issue for us Waussies.  We never wanted Uranium mining in this state - but the federal government has greenlighted it.  I did expect better From Kevin.

As for allowing offshore drilling in WA off the coast of Margaret River and the Kimberley - I cant believe a politician would announce the greenlighting of this before an election.  We dont want it - and especially now we have seen what is happening in the gulf coast.  I think she has made a huge mistake in announcing this before the election - she should have done what others have done - announce it after the election.  lol

I dont think Julia has bothered to even really visit these sites - if she did she would know why we dont want it, and she would understand.  WE have pristine beaches over here, we have some spectacular coral reefs and well the wildlife is amazing.  We have let mining companies control us for way to long - they dont care about us or the environment - they only care about money. 

Colin Barnett is no better - he has virtually forced the indigenous community to go along with him - on mining matters - because he can.  Instead of listening to their concerns - which are real and lets face it - they looked after this land a lot better than we are.

Title: Re: The ELECTION Thread
Post by: mandurahmum on July 14, 2010, 10:07:34 PM
Dare I suggest BNWT.... Dear...Oh Bloody Dear!

Having been a happy tourist in Sri Lanka during the early eighties, and having entered a country that was in unrest, that became under the grip of martial law... and under 19Hrs / day curfew, and having seen the bodies of the townsfolk who had been shot - burning on piles of car tyres in the streets, and being connected to a number of journalists, learning that the death toll was running into the many thousands.... and not hundreds as reported by the government, and having been told by army personnel not to travel to the north of the country, lest we be killed by the Tigers to bring our country into involvement, and having, some weeks later, walked a gauntlet outlined with soldiers armed with machine guns....... I now learn that we are going to let these perpetrators in here - to Australia!

Enough said!


http://www.theaustralian.com.au/news/nation/half-of-sri-lankan-arrivals-have-ties-to-tigers/story-e6frg6nf-1225891388934
 (http://www.theaustralian.com.au/news/nation/half-of-sri-lankan-arrivals-have-ties-to-tigers/story-e6frg6nf-1225891388934)

Too right.  We also dont know how many Afghanistans that are coming have ties to the Taliban?  It may be a few - it may be a lot - but surely we dont want these War Criminals here.  I also dont understand why these young men are not fighting the Taliban along side us - if our troops are willing to put their lives on the line to protect their country - why aren't they.
Title: Re: The ELECTION Thread
Post by: Rebel*1* on July 14, 2010, 10:31:23 PM
Dare I suggest BNWT.... Dear...Oh Bloody Dear!

Having been a happy tourist in Sri Lanka during the early eighties, and having entered a country that was in unrest, that became under the grip of martial law... and under 19Hrs / day curfew, and having seen the bodies of the townsfolk who had been shot - burning on piles of car tyres in the streets, and being connected to a number of journalists, learning that the death toll was running into the many thousands.... and not hundreds as reported by the government, and having been told by army personnel not to travel to the north of the country, lest we be killed by the Tigers to bring our country into involvement, and having, some weeks later, walked a gauntlet outlined with soldiers armed with machine guns....... I now learn that we are going to let these perpetrators in here - to Australia!

Enough said!


http://www.theaustralian.com.au/news/nation/half-of-sri-lankan-arrivals-have-ties-to-tigers/story-e6frg6nf-1225891388934
 (http://www.theaustralian.com.au/news/nation/half-of-sri-lankan-arrivals-have-ties-to-tigers/story-e6frg6nf-1225891388934)

Loco, I appreciate the past politics, but not all Tamils are the perpetrators and I'm not saying they should be housed here, but they ARE coming here.  So what would you suggest we as a more diplomatic country do about that?  Join in their persecution ?  what's that about?  Ghandi comes to mind in all this, can't imagine why.
Title: Re: The ELECTION Thread
Post by: mandurahmum on July 14, 2010, 10:51:01 PM
I think that is the problem - we dont know what to do, or we can do anything.  I for one thought Live aid would help those people in Ethopia and other parts of Africa - but they are still starving.  Look at the people in Haiti - all that money promised - but living conditions are still appalling - and it seems most countries have not given the funds they promised.  I am glad we did though.


Title: Re: The ELECTION Thread
Post by: *r3830* on July 14, 2010, 11:06:47 PM
Loco, I appreciate the past politics, but not all Tamils are the perpetrators and I'm not saying they should be housed here, but they ARE coming here.  So what would you suggest we as a more diplomatic country do about that?  Join in their persecution ?  what's that about?  Ghandi comes to mind in all this, can't imagine why.

Past politics? Sorry - I'm not talking politics - I'm sharing facts and experience about how serious a threat to our country these people can be. And please don't misunderstand me..... I am certainly NOT condemning the Tamil people - only those who wear a terrorist cap. Tamils make up rather a large part of the population of India. You do know that this 'terrorist activity' started when the Tamil people declared that they wanted their own country? They rather seriously lost that argument in India. The plan raised again in Sri Lanka. It was a great plan.... we'll have HALF of the country..... not negotiable! Neither was it acceptable to the government. So, the terrorists set about placing bombs in bus stations, and detonating these things at the busiest times of the day. They killed indiscriminately, unconcerned whether the majority of their victims were children returning home from school. Finally, the government had had enough - and initiated a war to remove the threat to the people. Now they come here. I could be a lot more colourful in the descriptions of what I saw - and it is still firmly placed in mind after nearly thirty years.  As regards diplomacy.... there is a significant difference between being diplomatic as opposed to defeatist.

What would I suggest? - Simple, something similar to what the Howard government had.... placement off the mainland until the enquiries are completed and the applicants known to be safe. I'll happily join with you in welcoming them here at that time. Alternately, these people can escape into the community - and goodness knows what they can do. It only takes one person to build a bomb and drive a car. Were it aimed at your family - would you not exercise at the very least...extreme caution?

You write of Ghandi.... He was about peace - not indiscriminate murder. He spoke of peaceful, non-cooperation, not car bombs. He also condemned those who carried out such things.

As a matter of interest, I voted for Kevin Rudd. I apparently had more faith in him winning the next election than did his assassinators colleagues. On such a matter as this - I believe the matter should be bipartisan - as it is a matter of national security.


Title: Re: The ELECTION Thread
Post by: Rebel*1* on July 14, 2010, 11:37:45 PM
So Is Gillard suggesting something other than that loco?

As for Ghandi, in that example the murder and injustice was being imposed on the Indian people by the British.  I used him as reference to the philosophy of 'an eye for an eye makes the whole world blind'. 
Title: Re: The ELECTION Thread
Post by: Rebel*1* on July 15, 2010, 12:03:09 AM
Also, we're not just talking about Sri Lanka.  Afghanistan and Iraq are the main IDP and refugee crisis currently, due predominantly to a stupid war.  Do they deserve to be abandoned also?  We're in their country at war.  God knows why, after almost 9 years already?  What have we or are we achieving exactly, other than producing refugees?

Time to call it a day?

On such a matter as this - I believe the matter should be bipartisan - as it is a matter of national security.

I agree, but it's more than that, it's a global responsibility.
Title: Re: The ELECTION Thread
Post by: bnwt on July 15, 2010, 08:08:45 AM
do you get the feeling Miranda Devine (smh) doesn't like Juuuulia




[attachment deleted by admin]
Title: Re: The ELECTION Thread
Post by: *r3830* on July 15, 2010, 08:54:40 AM
Good Morning Rebel*1*


So Is Gillard suggesting something other than that loco?

Probably not.... but in terms of expediting the applications of these people - reinventing the wheel is counterproductive. It was argued that Howard's scheme was oppressive. Alternately, Rudd's scheme was at the other end of the scale. Surely, there can be a meeting of the minds somewhere towards the middle, for a good outcome that appropriately addresses the needs of both sides.

As for Ghandi, in that example the murder and injustice was being imposed on the Indian people by the British.

That's quite true, but Britain was a sovereign nation imposing its will from within another country. How does that then compare to our country preventing a free-for-all entry of illegal and possibly extremist individuals? It's quite interesting when speaking with Aboriginal people, who still regard 26 January as Invasion Day. Many will tell you, the invasion continues today.... just from a different place.

Also, we're not just talking about Sri Lanka.

My reference to Sri Lanka came from your part phrase.... MM, no offense but for the sake of a few Tamil Tigers amongst the refugees (politics we really don't have a first hand knowledge of)..... I certainly do have first hand knowledge of the situation as applied in Sri Lanka.... and am happy to offer it to demonstrate the dangers associated.

Afghanistan and Iraq

Irrespective of whether this is a silly war or not... our people are there. Perhaps, when they do finally withdraw, the people who live in these areas may find some peace and encouragement to return home. As far as abandonment is concerned - the US supplied arms to the northern areas of Afghanistan in their battle against the USSR. They then withdrew their support and allowed the people to be obliterated. Keep in mind, it was the US who incited the actions in the first place. And who gained from this..... weapons manufacturers. It was also the US who effectively installed Sadam Hussein into power - only to go after him when he sought payment for his country's oil in Euros and not US Dollars. He no longer was playing their game.
 
I agree, but it's more than that, it's a global responsibility.

For the purpose of this discussion - the rest of the world ceases to exist. My concern is wholly focussed on this country - and the safety and wellbeing of its residents. How other countries deal with these things are matters for them.

You made an earlier comment which I missed last night.... Just once, I'd like to see a woman take the helm.  I think many will give Gillard the benefit of the doubt, and see if she is able to take a longer term (realistic) approach to issues like refugees, mining,  environment, economy, equity for Australian people, hey even the estimated 105,000 Australians sleeping rough each night.  Let's not forget our own backyard full of Aussie IDP'S with no refugee camp to call home. [/b]

Gillard or Abbott? Really don't care other than who is best going to address the bold statement above. Change the lyric of The Streets of London.... to Sydney, Brisbane, Adelaide, Perth or Melbourne.... and the story remains the same..... with a growth factor present. Charity begins at home.
Title: Re: The ELECTION Thread
Post by: bnwt on July 15, 2010, 12:47:51 PM
Senate inquiry calls for Royal Commission into Gillard Government insulation fiasco


``Overall the committee is of the view that the program has been a breathtaking and disastrous waste of more than a billion dollars of tax-payer's money which has had devastating consequences for many honest and hard-working Australian families,'' the report concluded.


http://www.couriermail.com.au/news/senate-inquiry-calls-for-royal-commission-into-gillard-government-insulation-fiasco/story-e6freon6-1225892074715
Title: Re: The ELECTION Thread
Post by: *r3830* on July 15, 2010, 12:57:01 PM
In interesting article bnwt..... but wasn't that all Kev's idea and fault? Isn't that why they sunk the dagger in? The rest are all innocents you know! Poor victims....
Title: Re: The ELECTION Thread
Post by: bnwt on July 15, 2010, 01:37:14 PM
Plunge on August 21 election day


Betting agency Centrebet is about to close the books on an election date following a sudden rush of money for August 21.


http://www2.skynews.com.au/politics/article.aspx?id=485259&articleID=
Title: Re: The ELECTION Thread
Post by: Rebel*1* on July 15, 2010, 02:28:56 PM
The Opposition-dominated committee made a series of scathing conclusions including:

* the design and deliver has been ``a monumental failure'';

* caused ``massive disruptions for many genuine insulation companies'';

* exposed failings within the Federal Department of Environment and

* ``sullied the waters for future large-scale government driven environmental programs''.

Anything not 'opposition dominated on this issue? 
Title: Re: The ELECTION Thread
Post by: bnwt on July 15, 2010, 02:43:30 PM
so Rebel what you saying is that a government dominated committee would have found the insulation fiasco

a monumental success

caused massive improvements for many genuine insulation companies

exposed continued strengths within the dept. of environment

and enhanced the positives of large scale labor government programs

the only committee that would find those results would be the same labor party that suddenly found 6 billion dollars under cushion on the lounge

in the words of peter garrett ...... "how can we sleep when our roofs are burning"?

and another ........... "the time has come to say farewell"  ............ "who's gunna save me"
Title: Re: The ELECTION Thread
Post by: mandurahmum on July 15, 2010, 06:53:11 PM
I would like to see our Prime Minister whoever they may be - reevaluate our relationship with the USA.  We seem unable to say No to them - and I dont get it.  We dont owe them anything - and they certainly dont value our friendship. 

I was shocked when we had the Bushfire Memorial and they did not send anyone - even though Hilliary was in Indonesia at the time.  I am sure the Indonesians would have understood.  I thought that was a major slap in the face.  I also thought that their help at the time - by sending 30 'experts' over not to help fight the fires - but to tell us how to do it.  I am sorry but this was our worst natural disaster ever - we needed people holding on to hoses - not telling us how to.

They also offered no financial aid - but when Katrina happened - we sent over 10 million bucks from the government and another 20 million from donations.  We also sent over 1000 emergency workers to help.

I honestly think that the balance of power in this relationship is so one sided that they dont appreciate us at all





Title: Re: The ELECTION Thread
Post by: bnwt on July 16, 2010, 09:50:21 AM
I get the distinct impression the Sydney Morning Herald does not like Ms Gillard ......... just look at the flattering photo they used today

[attachment deleted by admin]
Title: Re: The ELECTION Thread
Post by: *r3830* on July 16, 2010, 11:29:31 AM
The question(s) raised by Laurie Oakes appeared to be very well put together, on the basis of statements received.... They seemed to more tell a story than seek a response. JMO. The answer = that's confidential..... no comment. Did anyone actually hear Ms Gillard utter the word 'NO' in her response?
Title: Re: The ELECTION Thread
Post by: emptyheadted on July 16, 2010, 11:33:07 AM
yeah stop all this forgien aid fix this country first let them fix there own and if we stop supporting them they might stop breeding for 5 minutes and do something themselves
Title: Re: The ELECTION Thread
Post by: *r3830* on July 16, 2010, 11:36:06 AM
Kevin Rudd's one-man show haunts Julia Gillard

Wasn't there once a story about biting off more than one can chew???


http://www.news.com.au/features/federal-election/kevin-rudds-one-man-show-haunts-julia-gillard/story-e6frfllr-1225892542609 (http://www.news.com.au/features/federal-election/kevin-rudds-one-man-show-haunts-julia-gillard/story-e6frfllr-1225892542609)

Title: Re: The ELECTION Thread
Post by: emptyheadted on July 16, 2010, 12:38:14 PM
i have no desire to save the world but i would like to see this country improve, it because of all this foriegn aid that these countries no long grow there own crops, they had a drought once so we feed them and wow what a wicket we just sit here and the world will feed us no need to grow them crops any more
Title: Re: The ELECTION Thread
Post by: bnwt on July 16, 2010, 01:04:40 PM
it appears the Australian don't like her much either ....... yet another extremely flattering photo

[attachment deleted by admin]
Title: Re: The ELECTION Thread
Post by: Rebel*1* on July 16, 2010, 02:02:16 PM
No bnwt, what I'm saying is that your idea of an election thread could be likened to an ALP lynching party.  You seem happy to swallow anything Abbott dishes up as veritable 'gospel'.  Some of us are not so easily convinced.

Do you have the slightest idea what you are talking about in this rather serious insulation issue?  Or is it yet another Election show bag filler with as little fact as possible?  This is what offends me the most, you are willing to post election spin media but not discuss the facts underpinning Abbots outrageous one sided spin doctoring.  I'm just as happy to debate any spin being put out their by the ALP if it means Aussies will get to the truth of the issues we're all voting on.

As I tried to demonstrate with the 'boat people' crisis (that Tony Abbott alone is blowing out of all proportion in his penchant to create hysteria), there is much more to it than the Australian people are being informed of.   If we're going to vote on these issues, then don't you think we should know what they really entail?  i.e. not just behave like a huge herd of SHEEP?

For instance, you seem to think that the Govt alone was to blame for the whole insulation fiasco and nobody else?  really?  Because Abbott says so?  Do you think it's all that simple?

Businesses who rorted that system, engaged in unsafe practices, & used unsafe materials, whilst placing workers and the public at obvious risk.  Otherwise, known as negligence.   Don't you imagine that an insulation business should at least know about these risks?  whether it's a Govt subsidised installation or funded by the consumer themselves?  NO?

Well I can can assure you that any OH&S investigation or Civil Damages claim, will be asking that very question.   What caused houses to burn down and workers to be electrocuted?

The Govt's rebate program? or faulty and negligent installation?  Who told these operators to install foil sided insulation or ignore the standard distance required around down lights?  The Govt?

It may have escaped your notice, but Garrett acknowledged the Govt's Duty of care, and tightened the criteria around the rebate in the same period announcing that as of June 1/2010:

installers will be forced to re-register with the government, pay a cash bond, show evidence of training and minimum skills, provide certified quality assurance and occupational health and safety plans, and be subject to a tough new compliance regime.

Of course, under each State's W/Cover and OH&S laws, EVERY SINGLE BUSINESS, is supposed to provide training, minimum skills, safe work practices/equipment, and an OH&S plan, irrespective of who pays for the installation.  

If anything, this is the only factor I can see, where the Fed Govt might have been able to mitigate risk initially, by checking more stringently on companies out to rort the program from the outset.

Nevertheless BNWT, as each damages claim surfaces, we'll hear the real story about who's really to blame.  

Here's just one of many to come:

Charges laid over insulation death
Updated Tue Jun 29, 2010 7:02am AEST
http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2010/06/28/2939252.htm

Arrow Property Maintenance Pty Ltd has been charged with breaching the Electrical Safety Act and for allegedly failing to run its business safely.

The company has also been charged under the Workplace Health and Safety Act for allegedly failing to ensure its workers were protected from high falls.


Do you still think it's all as simple as Abbott portrays?  

Title: Re: The ELECTION Thread
Post by: bnwt on July 16, 2010, 02:44:45 PM
my idea of an election thread is one where everyone is welcome to express their opinions and points of view

you may note I have not posted a single positive comment or quote about the Liberals but as I said right from the outset I am not pro Liberal but I am anti Labor

Abbott does not need to dish up anything and if you review the media you'll notice he is hardly getting any air time ....... that's extremely clever I think

Julia Caesar & Co. are punching a new hole in the bottom of their sinking ship every few hours ..... I must say it's a delight to watch

I predict the Liberal Party will not win the election ................................................ rather Labor will lose and it will be massive
Title: Re: The ELECTION Thread
Post by: Rebel*1* on July 16, 2010, 03:28:34 PM
bnwt, I'm not arguing that people's views should not be expressed, in fact, I'm inviting debate over the issues these parties are apparently using as election platforms.   You seem to be presenting the 'media's view, and I believe they are extremely biased when it suits them.

I'm more interested in both Parties giving The Australian People the facts in anything they are asserting and asking us to vote for, not a popularity contest.
 
e.g. Mining.  MM and probably many other Waussies (and Eastern Staters) are horrified at the thought of Margaret River and the Kimberley being exploited, or Uranium Mining being given the green light, and no doubt people might therefore consider that to be a HUGE and highly relevant election issue.  Notwithstanding the mining companies also paying their fair share to the Australian People for the exploitation of that wealth (which the Opposition seem to think is unfair?)  huh?  So who do they represent exactly?.  

Do you recall anytime during this whole race to the bottom, that either party (or the so called independent media) has informed the Australian people of the facts, or given us a fair say over our share of those resources? or indeed indiscriminate Mining access being granted all over the countryside?   Does anyone seriously believe that Abbott will do anything other than support the mining companies if elected?

I think Mining therefore, (and who is really running this country) would have to top the scale in terms of Issues of National Importance, and yet it's all lost in the spin cycle.
 
The Issue of 'Boat People' in my view is not something that affects the Australian people as much as mining does, and even if Tony Abbott is elected, the boat people will just keep coming.  So anything he promises in terms of stopping it with a magic policy, is just spin.  


Title: Re: The ELECTION Thread
Post by: *wheels* on July 16, 2010, 03:57:19 PM
Honeymoon de Julia

http://www.abc.net.au/news/video/2010/07/15/2955069.htm


Title: Re: The ELECTION Thread
Post by: bnwt on July 16, 2010, 04:19:26 PM
no I'm not expressing the views of the media rather it's an observation on how Julia is being portrayed by the media ... they seem to going out of their way to make her look bad

in the 2007 election they were all gushing over Kevin O'Lemon

why is that they seem to have it in for Julia ?? ............even the smh and dare I say the ABC appear to not like her

I am truly surprised by the comments left by ABC readers, they just hate her, not all but majority make very unfavourable remarks

I think the Labor power brokers have made a huge mistake pinning their hopes on Julia, if you live in NSW you'll have seen the appalling results of these faceless back room puppeteers already at the state level. The Penrith by-election had a 26% swing against state Labor, I don't see any reason why it wont be any different for federal Labor. There only needs to be around a 2% swing nationally and Labor are cactus. In the inner city seats there'll be a swing to the greens and in the suburbs they'll lose to the Liberals

infamy infamy ......... they all have it in for me
Title: Re: The ELECTION Thread
Post by: *r3830* on July 16, 2010, 04:26:43 PM
Just as a matter of interest..... How the media viewed Rudd

Kevin Rudd - Lily Allen The Fear Take Off

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6ygqxmM_pDg&feature=related (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6ygqxmM_pDg&feature=related)
Title: Re: The ELECTION Thread
Post by: *r3830* on July 16, 2010, 04:39:13 PM
bnwt..... you made a comment earlier - that you wondered if the media had a dislike of Julia. The link below is from the Daily Telegraph. It may assist!

Her name by the way is Amanda Bishop. See what you reckon.  ;D

Julia Gillard impersonator

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0lhb1-1Fuhw (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0lhb1-1Fuhw)
Title: Re: The ELECTION Thread
Post by: Rebel*1* on July 16, 2010, 05:20:35 PM
I agree bnwt, but that doesn't surprise me with Australian media.  They can't just report the story, (with the facts) they have to be part of the story by directing the focus one way or another. 

I can understand why there might be some disdain towards Julia Gillard, but I think it's largely misplaced.  What the ALP power brokers did however, smacked of 'tokenism' after all, so as I said, it's not surprising.

I don't blame Julia Gillard for that because I don't believe she's anybody's fool.  But I do believe the ALP really devalued her potential as Australia's first Female Prime Minister due to their conduct towards Rudd.   I believe that Gillard would have had a much easier time if she'd come into the leadership in her own right and ran on her own skills.  This isn't an intelligent election, it's one being fought on popularity and mud slinging.

As alternatives go, the Opposition are scraping the bottom of the barrel in this election with Abbott, when they could have had Turnbull or Costello.  That in itself makes me think twice.   

Title: Re: The ELECTION Thread
Post by: Rebel*1* on July 16, 2010, 05:41:27 PM
bnwt, I am quite familiar with NSW and the absolute disaster that has been created by the current State Govt.  I'm also not too fond of Bobby Carr for his legacy in removing most of our civil liability rights.  More right wing than the opposition in that regard.  

I'd like to see a SERIOUS debate happen in NSW between both parties with the real issues highlighted (and the real economic situation exposed) with each party telling us what they intend to do about it.  Otherwise, all we keep doing is voting on ambiguous promises.  We need them to commit to tangible policies so we can vote them in on an informed basis and hold them to their election promises.  

I don't care which party gets in, as long as they are accountable to the people when they screw up.  

Title: Re: The ELECTION Thread
Post by: *r3830* on July 16, 2010, 06:06:25 PM
I don't blame Julia Gillard for that because I don't believe she's anybody's fool.  But I do believe the ALP really devalued her potential as Australia's first Female Prime Minister due to their conduct towards Rudd.   I believe that Gillard would have had a much easier time if she'd come into the leadership in her own right and ran on her own skills.  This isn't an intelligent election, it's one being fought on popularity and mud slinging.

I agree with your thoughts on this Rebel*1*, particularly where Ms Gillard coming into leadership in her own right - without the shadows of the past floating above her. An earlier link that I posted sort of summed up what Mr Rudd had become.... a single operator.... or was that a player from a 'group of four'? Again, he's off in the world - somewhere else other than here.... on what looks like a mission to achieve that all important seat on the UN Security Council. I read that his Labor colleagues are concerned about the matter.

 
Title: Re: The ELECTION Thread
Post by: mandurahmum on July 16, 2010, 06:38:46 PM
I see that BP may have had a hand in the release of the Lockerbie bomber - so that they could drill in Libya.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/38256677/ns/world_news-africa/ (http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/38256677/ns/world_news-africa/)

This does not surprise me at all - we cannot trust mining companies to do the right thing. 

I wonder what deal Magellan did to allow lead to be shipped out of Fremantle after the major mishap in Esperance.  We know they must have done something - because most people had no idea this was even being considered until the deal was done.  But then again - we also know that Magallen had done the wrong thing plenty of times before - but it was all covered up

http://www.perthnow.com.au/news/top-stories/esperance-lead-pain-ignored/story-e6frg12l-1111113430921 (http://www.perthnow.com.au/news/top-stories/esperance-lead-pain-ignored/story-e6frg12l-1111113430921)



Title: Re: The ELECTION Thread
Post by: mandurahmum on July 16, 2010, 07:07:06 PM
I am also concerned that the ads to get people enrolled on the electrol role have not been on tv/radio. 
Title: Re: The ELECTION Thread
Post by: Rebel*1* on July 17, 2010, 12:25:40 PM
OH mum, you wouldn't believe just how far up the cracker of every Western Govt, the mining industry actually are.    They're into the natural wealth & politics of every country, either up front or undercover, and they've found a new country to plunder.  They get around don't they?

The US have been doing Geological surveys for years now in Afghanistan and finally they've found something to really fight over.  They've identified conservatively US1Trillion in Mineral Resources and are busy making sure they keep control of it.  What war on terrorism?  Now it's a war over mineral resources. 

Read this:  Afghanistan sits on $1 trillion mineral motherlode
http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2010/06/15/2926822.htm
 
Colonel Lapan says the studies were part of a US government effort designed to assist Afghanistan build up viable industries, and advisers were working with the Kabul government to attract "world-class" mining companies.
 
He says US officials were "helping the Afghans to learn how to ... understand what they have".

 
Now it's just a race to see who'll get mining rights to these resources and the big question is, will the Afghan people also be given a mere 1.00 in 7.00 like us Aussies in return for their un-renewable resources?  Seems to be the M.O.   Is that how the US Govt and Mining Companies are going to help them learn about what they have? or have not?.   

Naturally, the US are already fear mongering over it and lobbying for their perceived 'share'.
 
U.S. Identifies Vast Mineral Riches in Afghanistan
http://www.nytimes.com/2010/06/14/world/asia/14minerals.html
 
"the American officials also recognize that the mineral discoveries will almost certainly have a double-edged impact.
 
Instead of bringing peace, the newfound mineral wealth could lead the Taliban to battle even more fiercely to regain control of the country"
.
 
At the same time, American officials fear resource-hungry China will try to dominate the development of Afghanistan’s mineral wealth, which could upset the United States, given its heavy investment in the region. After winning the bid for its Aynak copper mine in Logar Province, China clearly wants more, American officials said.
 
Get set for round two.

Based on this 'motherlode', the US will want to stay in Afghanistan to safe guard their perceived interests or 'Investment' as they put it, and it looks Like Australia will also get roped into it (paid for by Aussie taxpayers of course).
 
Aussies could be in Afghanistan 'until 2040'
http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2010/06/10/2923407.htm
 
A former high-ranking United States defence official says Australian troops could be in Afghanistan for the next 30 years.
 
Nevertheless, it could also be the solution to the plight of millions of Afghan refugees, who might now be able to go home.  Double edged indeed.  I feel concerned for the Afghan people if mining is at the helm of their recovery.  It won't be fair remuneration, if Australia is any example.  Mining companies never play fair.
Title: Re: The ELECTION Thread
Post by: bnwt on July 17, 2010, 12:42:47 PM
LOL

I believe that moving forward is all about moving forward and we all we need move forward while moving forward


hilarious

she is a joke
Title: Re: The ELECTION Thread
Post by: Rebel*1* on July 17, 2010, 02:33:08 PM
On what basis do you consider her a joke?  And Tony Abbott the original Howard Toe Cutter isn't?  Oh come now bnwt.  I think you'll find that MANY are horrified at the mere proposition of Abbott being elected.  That alone might do him in. 

Hey and what do you suggest instead of moving forward?  moving backward and harping on about the same things over and over and over again like the Opposition does? 

Moving nowhere? or Harping on?  Would that be a good opposition election slogan?
Title: Re: The ELECTION Thread
Post by: bnwt on July 17, 2010, 04:50:20 PM
I was commenting on her APPALLING election speech .... not as political announcement but as a media presentation

quite seriously there were several occasions where I burst into laughter

it was soooooooooo corny so amateurish

she said "moving forward" so many times it became hilarious  (32 times apparently)

obviously her puppeteers have told her to keep using the term but it makes her sound like an idiot when she repeats it over and over again just because it's her election "catch phrase"

not to mention her over use of "I believe"

who ever wrote her speech is a rank amateur ... her delivery wasn't too bad but she always reminds me of someone in the grade 9 debating team when she speaks
Title: Re: The ELECTION Thread
Post by: mandurahmum on July 17, 2010, 05:04:37 PM
Thanks for that Rebel - I wonder why our mainstream media did not report on that.  Oh yeah - cause we are only interested in freeing the people from the Taliban - yeah right.

We were only in Iraq because of Weapons of Mass Destruction - yeah right.

I understand how important the Mining Industry is - more than half of my cul de sac works at Alcoa, and a couple work up North on mining projects.

But what I dont understand is why we bow down to them - I mean - we own the land/water - not them.  Surely this gives us the bargaining chip.  But our government fails to see this.  They cow tail whenever a mining company is unhappy - me I would tell them if they dont like it - leave.  Some other mining company will always step in - if the minerals/oil etc is worth it.  And we know they are worth it.  

Take Uranium for an instance, I dont see the need for it over here yet.  Surely the longer we leave it in the ground - the more valuable it becomes.  Hopefully then we will also have the solution as to what to do with spent uranium.

But it seems to me our government is very short sighted on these matters.

Do we really want them to drill for oil off the Kimberley Coast - a spectacular place to visit - and something that all Aussies should go and visit at some time in their live.  Its magical - no wonder the Aboriginal People dont want mining up there.  Just look at the Rock Art in some of the caves - thousands of years old - but not really valued by us.  Which is so strange - it is some of the oldest Art in the world - but we will allow people to try and destroy it.

I also cant believe that when the world is watching the Gulf of Mexico that any government in the world would greenlight more oil drilling in the ocean - but ours did.  I mean talk about bad timing - or do they really think we dont know what is happening over there - or even worse that we dont care.

I am not bashing Julia - cause I think the mad monk would have done the same thing.  I am absolutely shocked that the Greens are not jumping up and down about this - after all we count of them to look after the environment when the 2 other parties only see money.

But then again, we Waussies know that we dont really count - the election results are determined over in the eastern states - and normally announced before our polling places are even closed.

I can see why people over here love the thought of secession from the rest of Australia.  We bring in so much money for this country yet our hospitals are woefully lacking.  And dont even think of getting hurt up north - the flying doctor service is a long way away and often already on another job.



Title: Re: The ELECTION Thread
Post by: mandurahmum on July 17, 2010, 05:05:34 PM
I still think Barrack had the lamest - Yes we can.  Well of course you can - you just probably wont
Title: Re: The ELECTION Thread
Post by: Rebel*1* on July 18, 2010, 10:01:17 AM
Morning Mum,  

I am absolutely shocked that the Greens are not jumping up and down about this - after all we count of them to look after the environment when the 2 other parties only see money.

OH, but they are Mum, the media is just not giving them any air time.  I am on the Greens Newsletter/mailing list so I can keep up to date with what they're doing.  

You might like to voice your concerns with their office as should many others and get onto their email list.  It's the only way to hear about what the Greens are doing.  The media ignore them unless there's a controversy.  Independent ?   We need to keep the Greens in the senate or we'll have absolutely NO power over these mongrels and no knowledge of their exploits.  

If as many, you are unsure of where to cast your vote (particularly given the mining issues being ignored by both major parties), at least consider giving it to the Greens so they can keep watch over the environment from the Senate.  Otherwise, nobody will be telling the Australian people what the real costs are in this 'anything for a buck' era.  (BTW, I'm not a raving Greenie, but I do value the environment (shouldn't everyone?) and I do therefore believe the Greens must have a role in the senate to speak on behalf of our otherwise unrepresented environment)  The following newsletter has a survey, link, but if you feel inclined on specific issues not in the survey, email directly to  Senator Sarah Hanson-Young, or Bob Brown on the following email:

Contact Bob Brown
action@greensmps.org.au

Dear friend, (2/7/10)

I have congratulated Julia Gillard, given condolences to Kevin Rudd, and joined the nationwide celebration of our first female prime minister. And at our Party Room meeting in Canberra last week, we correctly predicted the instant impact on the polls.  We are also expecting an election in August.

That’s why in this message, I am asking you what you think. By clicking here, you can tell me what you think about issues the Greens will be campaigning on in the lead up to the election this year.  Survey: http://210.247.190.106/professionalquestsurveys/BobBrownSurvey.asp

Rudd was no progressive, but we mustn't forget it was the Labor Right that axed him and imposed Julia Gillard.  

Your views are very important to me, and I’d like to thank you now for any time you can spend taking part in our survey.

I do expect to have constructive, frank, honest talks soon with the new Prime Minister.  But I do not expect this will be a green government.  And the Abbott Opposition ensures that the political "tug" will be away from progressive dialogue.

Tell me what your priorities are in our survey.

So, MORE THAN EVER, the Greens are needed in the Senate, to ensure Australians get good outcomes on climate change, on asylum seekers, on forests and biodiversity, on your rights at work, on proper dental care and truth in political advertising.

The election campaign is on. Many potential Greens voters will be assessing the new Prime Minister and whether or not she will change the way they feel about the Labor Government.

Our job now is to make sure every one of those voters knows why they need the Greens as a guarantee in the Senate. The Greens in the Senate mean scrutiny, positive solutions and insurance against deadlock with the Opposition.

Imagine a re-elected Julia Gillard government with an Abbott controlled Senate!  This is a real possibility if the Greens don’t obtain balance of power at this year's poll.

Your views will help make our campaign better, and inform our policy priorities.

I look forward to the campaign, now well under way, and seeing you on that trail.

Yours sincerely
 
Bob Brown

Title: Re: The ELECTION Thread
Post by: bnwt on July 18, 2010, 10:44:06 AM
what is difference between listening to bob brown and standing in front of an elephants arse when it farts ?





nothing
Title: Re: The ELECTION Thread
Post by: shyer on July 18, 2010, 10:52:29 AM
Quote
Imagine a re-elected Julia Gillard government with an Abbott controlled Senate!  This is a real possibility if the Greens don’t obtain balance of power at this year's poll.

Imagine a bob brown controlled senate NOTHING will get done. The country will be sh1t brown in a year, and flushed out to sea, take decades to correct. Greens are very dangerous read their full platform, not "enviroment" friendly leaflet .

No defence, indonesian in a decade. No development. No cities. No children ( apart from bobs grandchildren) . Media and schools controled by "big brother". No bushfire controls. All to make a dictatorship of the left. A mao type elite living the good life. The rest economic serfs condemed to work dawn till dusk and non polluting early death. And burial sites soon vegie gardens so every thing is recycled.

You think that is far fetched. Pol pot initially was sponsored by china, how many millions killed ?. Laos is still a closed dictatorship making china look like heaven. The Nazis only took 15 years to turn germany into a military dictatorship from a good democracy.

All democracies need loony lefties, like our rebel friend, one idea in a thousand is a good idea. Just as we need the rat bag gengis khan right, one idea in a thousand is a good idea. ie one nations Naru for economic que jumpers like boat people.
Title: Re: The ELECTION Thread
Post by: Rebel*1* on July 18, 2010, 11:59:32 AM
We were only in Iraq because of Weapons of Mass Destruction - yeah right.

Nah mum, they gave up looking for WMD's (if they ever even existed), and started looking for MMP's "MINERALS OF MASS PROFIT" !!!  LOL

Wonder if they've found anything in Iraq they can exploit in return for their 'Investment' of War.   Must go looking on the net, because obviously our own Media don't give a stuff about informing the public of these important events. 

The irony is that this is the only way the war in Afghanistan and Iraq is going to end, and millions of refugees repatriated = less boat people from those regions.    When the US gets what it seems to have invaded those countries for ?   Let's face it Mum, the US would never have had the freedom to scout out Minerals in those countries unless they invaded them.  The whole thing stinks to me, but that's just me.  I'm naturally skeptical.

This morning Abbott was asked on AMAgenda about the troops in Afghanistan and he didn't say boo about the new found 'riches', and the likelihood that our troops will be there for decades, no doubt safeguarding the US 'Investment'.  He just kept pushing the 'terror fear button' and lamenting the loss of defense personnel involved in this 'war of false pretenses'. 

This is what cringes me about politicians. They are liars by Mass omission of fact.    It stands to reason that the Yanks have their 'prize', and now they'll do anything they can to stay in Afghanistan to exploit it.  It also stands to reason that the Taliban will also try to gain control over those resources,  and there will be many more deaths of Defense personnel and civilians before this conflict is over. 

As I've said, the only thing that's changed is that there is now something tangible to fight over so it ain't over by a long shot and it's likely to get much worse before it gets better.

Nevertheless, Abbott talked down the Afghan refugee issue, saying in one breath that Afghanistan is still dangerous for troops, and in the other, ignoring the connection between millions of fleeing refugees from that very same danger?  He argued that the 'push' factors have nothing to do with the 'boat people' crisis?  Really?  (That's if you could call the small number of boats coming here an actual 'crisis).   Is he really that dense? or just dishonest?   Or has he altered the philosophy of cause = effect to suit his election rhetoric?

Causality is the relationship between an event (the cause) and a second event (the effect), where the second event is a consequence of the first.    i.e. the war in Afghanistan and Iraq has created millions of refugees, some of whom become 'boat people' and a very small number of whom make it to Australia.  If we end the war, we end the refugee crisis, and the resultant boat people.   It's not rocket science.
Title: Re: The ELECTION Thread
Post by: Rebel*1* on July 18, 2010, 12:24:16 PM
All democracies need loony lefties, like our rebel friend, one idea in a thousand is a good idea. Just as we need the rat bag gengis khan right, one idea in a thousand is a good idea. ie one nations Naru for economic que jumpers like boat people.

Why is it that when faced with a differing opinion, or even an objective 'big picture' consideration of an issue, some people resort to petty name calling and naked value judgements? 

You are entitled to your opinion Shyer, if that's what you call it.   I'm neither left or right, but a mixture of both depending on the issue under discussion.    You appear to be 100% right wing, no matter what the issue by comparison.  How inflexible of you.

I stated specifically that I am NOT a greenie, but I see the need for both extremes in the senate for the sake of balance.  RIGHT AND LEFT.  Otherwise, it's a dictatorship.  I also see the logic in discussing the political philosophies of each major party including the Greens, given that many Australians WILL vote Green, and those votes will then go to one or the other party in preferences. 

That's why I encouraged people NOT to waste their votes if they find themselves repulsed by both major parties.  At least make it count. 

The fact that your subjective prejudices don't allow you to consider the big picture is your problem, but it doesn't therefore entitle you to be personally abusive towards anyone who DOES.   Grow up, I dare you.
Title: Re: The ELECTION Thread
Post by: bnwt on July 18, 2010, 06:36:28 PM
two questions I have always wanted answered

1 - why do politicians have to kiss babies ?

2 - why is it considered an advantage to claim the party is "the under dog" ?






[attachment deleted by admin]
Title: Re: The ELECTION Thread
Post by: shyer on July 18, 2010, 06:47:34 PM
Why is it that when faced with a differing opinion, or even an objective 'big picture' consideration of an issue, some people resort to petty name calling and naked value judgements? 
You are entitled to your opinion Shyer, if that's what you call it.   I'm neither left or right, but a mixture of both depending on the issue under discussion.    You appear to be 100% right wing, no matter what the issue by comparison.  How inflexible of you.....   Grow up, I dare you.

I have grow up dear true believer when I was 20 I to was a true believer. I belieived in the great socialist ideals by the time I was 35 and had real world experience I saw the REAL world.

You my friend need a mirror I have a different opinion to you . I do not wear a tin foil hat to bed every night. I do not see a conspiricy at every cross roads. I never made this personal YOU did. I also make a prediction you came to this forum just before the election was called and will never be see again after the election, maybe you will be hiding from the police.

http://au.news.yahoo.com/a/-/mp/7600995/liberal-candidate-punched-in-face-over-asylum-policy/ (http://au.news.yahoo.com/a/-/mp/7600995/liberal-candidate-punched-in-face-over-asylum-policy/)

I know you are a coward verbal bully only. But by your earlier logic, spins and twists my comment is more factual.
Title: Re: The ELECTION Thread
Post by: bnwt on July 18, 2010, 06:51:35 PM
Julia Gillard's election call may have backfired, with poll showing Labor's support slipping


http://www.theaustralian.com.au/national-affairs/julia-gillards-election-call-may-have-backfired-with-poll-showing-labors-support-slipping/story-fn59niix-1225893621692
Title: Re: The ELECTION Thread
Post by: mandurahmum on July 18, 2010, 11:39:41 PM
Rebel - there has been no coverage at all of the media over here on the Oil drilling off the coast or about Uranium Mining.  Most of us WAussies had no idea they were being considered.  The only coverage we got was when both projects were given the go ahead - and that was one day, nothing since.

I dont like Bob Brown - he should have supported the Government on climate change - instead of accepting what was offered and then trying later to get it increased - he destroyed the bill.  That was just stupid.

And lets no forget that one of our own Green members was sleeping with the liberal treasurer.  Both married with kids - but not to each other.

I would however love to hear how Tony Abbot is going to stop the boats.  It is impractable to have our navy constantly in the area - its a big bloody area.  Its just a fact that they will always come - i dont like it but I have to accept it.  And why wouldn't they - look where and how they live and then look at us.  I think we just need to start preparing for them, by building up this country so we can cope.

And its not just the illegal refugees we have to prepare for, but its a fact that some of the countries near us and losing land to rising oceans and erosion.  These people will also be coming, and we wont be able to send them back.

bnwt - Answers to your questions

1.  Because babies dont really know who they are - they will take a kiss from anyone.  People who do know they are politicians - well - would you let them kiss you?

2.  Apparently is because of the tall poppy syndrome.  But then again I support the Dockers - underdogs from the get go - but doesn't everyone want the underdog to win.



Title: Re: The ELECTION Thread
Post by: bnwt on July 19, 2010, 10:13:51 AM
here's another question I have always wondered about


why do greens voters live in the inner city ??

the most environmentally unfriendly location they could pick

from my observation these voters are mostly losers that use being champions of the environment as an easy means to make themselves seem important

Title: Re: The ELECTION Thread
Post by: Rebel*1* on July 19, 2010, 01:32:48 PM
bnwt, I totally agree, I watched the baby kissing fest yesterday and found myself cringing.  Why is it that Pollies want to corrupt the nations youngest in election campaigns ?.  Wet Wet Wet.   Cringe.

As for Greens,  Right or wrong, they just are, and labeling all green voters as leftist loonies or losers is not entirely intelligent.  Some of our leading scientists are also Environmentalists, along with many aligned professionals.   Where do you suppose all the data on Global Warming has come from, and the scientific arguments against?  Laypeople?     I don't agree with various 'Green' policies, but I still see the need for someone in the Senate defending the environment where relevant.     I can well understand why people harbor grievances towards the Green party, as much as some harbor grievances towards both major parties and their respective leaders.  That's politics. 

As for all this socialist rubbish, you are the only one going on about that Shyer, and hurling insults around (as if your subjective assumptions constitute fact).  I guess if you can't debate an issue intelligently, you have nowhere else to go but abuse and insults.  Works for some.   

I believe in a 'Fair Go', and last time I looked that was very much part of our culture in Australia.  So, those of us who believe in a 'Fair Go', are all leftist loonies now? 

Mum, you hit the nail on the head about the conditions the Afghan people in particular have put up with for decades. (politics and blame game mentality aside) No-one can say it's been a picnic for Afghan civilians.    Perhaps if people spent more time finding out about the plight of those they so easily judge, fear and reject, there might be more intelligence in the 'boat people' debate.  i.e. what they are fleeing from and just how much we take for granted.

I found this article which seems fairly comprehensive.    I'm assuming it is reasonably accurate (Though who can tell what's fact or fantasy with the media)  This was back in 2001, 9 years and another war later, it's even worse.
 
http://www.washingtonpost.com/ac2/wp-dyn?pagename=article&node=&contentId=A38162-2001Sep15
 
There are few places on Earth where people have lived in greater misery for more years than Afghanistan, a rugged swath of landlocked deserts and mountains just smaller than the state of Texas where about 25 million people struggle to survive. One of every four children die before the age of 5; life expectancy is about 43 years; infant and maternal death rates are the second highest in the world; only 12 percent of the population has access to safe drinking water; and barely 30 percent of the men and 15 percent of the women can read or write.
 
Its people have been bombed, raped, tortured, slaughtered, looted and uprooted by two decades of war. Its lands are some of the most densely mined in the world. Its roads, irrigation systems and other infrastructure have been devastated by war and poverty. In one of its most recent reports, the United Nations described the situation in Afghanistan as "a horror."

 
Round and round it goes, where it stops nobody knows.
Title: Re: The ELECTION Thread
Post by: bnwt on July 19, 2010, 01:53:08 PM
and why is Afghanistan like that ??

because they are still living in the 12th century

because stupid religion is holding them there
Title: Re: The ELECTION Thread
Post by: Rebel*1* on July 19, 2010, 01:57:29 PM
Rebel - there has been no coverage at all of the media over here on the Oil drilling off the coast or about Uranium Mining.  Most of us WAussies had no idea they were being considered.  The only coverage we got was when both projects were given the go ahead - and that was one day, nothing since.

Mum, this is the very type of thing you should be posting about on media sites, and the campaign sites of each candidate including the Greens.  Ask them a simple question.  What is their position on Mining Margaret River, the Kimberley coast, and also Uranium.  

It is a serious election issue that many are curious over.  How will they balance jobs with potential environmental devastation?  

Realistically, there has to be some mining or the economy will definitely suffer.   The question is how that balance is going to be achieved.  

I'm just taking a look to see if any of them are putting forward polices on mining access and fair remuneration for the Australian people?  Isn't there a little issue of infrastructure funding we still have to foot the bill for otherwise?  In my view, if they must mine an area, then there has to be safeguards and fair remuneration to the Australian People.  
Title: Re: The ELECTION Thread
Post by: Rebel*1* on July 19, 2010, 02:23:37 PM
bnwt, I did say (all politics and blame game mentality aside).  I should have included religion.   It's really none of our business what religion these people are but the majority of Afghan people are Muslim.  It's not a problem to be fixed.

Hey and if we're comparing religions, the Western world's religions are no better when it comes to war in the name of 'God'.  How many wars have been fought over the centuries in the name of Western Religions?? 

Whoever might be to 'blame' for Afghanistans history of conflict, (whether war lords, Russians, US, Taliban or Bin Laden himself) essentially has no relevance to whether in this century, they should finally have a safe and prosperous society for the first time ever?  Given that they can fund it themselves, I'd say it's not an unreasonable gesture.
Title: Re: The ELECTION Thread
Post by: mandurahmum on July 19, 2010, 06:31:27 PM
Rebel - I have written to all 4 of my mp's about this issue to see what their position is on this matters - I will let you know what they say.

I also tweet Julia whenever she does one - to let her know how disappointed I am in her decisions, I also do the same on myspace.  She may not read them - but others do.

I am not sure why the media is not covering these issues - they seem to think that all we care about is the mining tax.  Well to me that is done and dusted.  But it does also seem to me that the media never covers mining mishaps over here - and its not because we are not interested - I assume they have a vested interest in not reporting them.

I am not opposed to mining - it is something that this state and country needs to stay financial.  But I do think it goes both ways - we need the mining companies - but they need our land too.  We also need to know that if things go wrong - they will be able to fix the problem straight away - so that the impact on the environment is next to nil. 

Title: Re: The ELECTION Thread
Post by: mandurahmum on July 19, 2010, 06:33:40 PM
http://www.saveourmarinelife.org.au/ (http://www.saveourmarinelife.org.au/)

This is the website for save our marine (from the oil drilling)  it also has  a link to email the pm.

Please send her your thoughts if your opposed to what they want to do.  Please also forward this link to anyone else that may be interested.

Thanks
Title: Re: The ELECTION Thread
Post by: bnwt on July 20, 2010, 09:41:55 AM
typical gutter antics

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Title: Re: The ELECTION Thread
Post by: golden on July 20, 2010, 10:53:47 AM
Looks like a Volkswagon bonnet!   :lol:
Title: Re: The ELECTION Thread
Post by: Rebel*1* on July 20, 2010, 08:25:03 PM
Oh come now, Tony Abbot is the iconic undisputed 'Budgie Smuggler' King isn't he?  NO chance of a competition from Julia on that 'front'.  lmao
Title: Re: The ELECTION Thread
Post by: shyer on July 21, 2010, 10:43:58 AM
A vote for labour is a vote for poverty and unemployment.

http://www.adelaidenow.com.au/news/in-depth/greens-say-no-to-roxby-uranium-mine/story-fn5rizbk-1225894763085 (http://www.adelaidenow.com.au/news/in-depth/greens-say-no-to-roxby-uranium-mine/story-fn5rizbk-1225894763085)

"BECAUSE"  the green pirnted handbook has an ideal it becomes worshiped. WHO will invest billions in a country if the rules keep changing??? No one is the answer!!!

Roxby downs produces huge $ for all australia it is one of the reasons Australias has under employment and skilled migrants reeded. USA japan europe all OECD countries are still stuggling to come out of the GFC . We here are on easy steet.   
Title: Re: The ELECTION Thread
Post by: bnwt on July 21, 2010, 01:17:18 PM
we are also here on easy street thanks to the Howard government that not only managed to pay off the 10 billion dollars worth of debt from the previous lousy Labor government but saved another 12 billion dollars

which krudd gave away on crap

Liberal governments are very good at making money

Labor governments are very good at spending money

only trouble for the current Labor team is they have spent all the money

simple answer TAX TAX TAX
Title: Re: The ELECTION Thread
Post by: Rebel*1* on July 21, 2010, 02:45:58 PM
Shyer, there is sustainable mining, and then there's dangerous  and 'unsustainable' mining that might produce a short term profit, but impose a long term handicap, even disaster, not only here but Worldwide. 

Whether you like it or not, there are rational arguments against Uranium mining, and whatever is decided here, can have ramifications locally and globally.   It pays to consider all sides of the argument in something this important.  JMO 

This particular article has arguments for and against Uranium mining in WA. 

Great science debates of the next decade: Spotlight on uranium

    * Narelle Towie, Science Reporter
    * From: PerthNow
    * February 01, 2010 4:20PM


http://www.perthnow.com.au/news/special-features/great-science-debates-of-the-next-decade-spotlight-on-uranium/story-e6frg1ac-1225825647309

Uranium is one of the world’s most dangerous minerals—literally and politically.

Australia has about 40 per cent of the world’s uranium reserves with 5 per cent in WA, most of it in the Yeelirrie deposit, 400km north of Kalgoorlie.

Since the Barnett Government formally overturned a ban on uranium mining in November 2008, and after a spectacular price increase, exploration applications have flooded the desks of bureaucrats across the state.

There are 27 uranium projects in WA, with five resource companies "significantly advanced" enough to start firing up production as soon as 2012.

So far, Australia has exported enough uranium to produce 80 tonnes of plutonium or enough to build 8000 nuclear weapons, according to the Conservation Council of Australia.

And there are no guarantees that WA's uranium won't fall into the wrong hands, fuelling the proliferation of weapons of mass destruction by unstable regimes and terrorist groups.
 

On one side is the almighty dollar, (and a bag full of beads called Jobs) and on the other are real health and environmental risks and proliferation of nuclear WMD's.   The least the Pollies can do is consider going back to the 3 mine policy, as a compromise, not the 27 mine, free for all it's turning into. 

Oh and let's not forget those health risks.

Uranium mining 'a health risk'
Tuesday, 18 August 2009
ScienceNetwork WA By Aaron Fernandes

Nobel Peace Prize nominee Dr Helen
Caldicott says uranium mining could pose
a range of health risks to WA inhabitants.


http://www.sciencealert.com.au/news/20091808-19572.html

Then there's the the moral and ethical issues:

Uranium mining, nuclear power and 'ethical' investment
http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2008/08/19/2339607.htm
By Frances Howe

The uranium mining industry has a poor track record in its dealings with Aboriginal communities - failing to consult traditional owners, using divide and rule tactics, and ignoring sacred sites. In the words of Yvonne Margarula, Mirarr senior traditional owner in the Northern Territory: "Uranium mining has ... taken our country away from us and destroyed it ... Mining and the millions of dollars in royalties have not improved our quality of life."

Just saying, there are some issues that bear more consideration than a knee jerk generalisation. Uranium mining is one of those issues in my books.  That doesn't imply that I'm leftist or anti mining, just cautious about gambling with our kids future.


Title: Re: The ELECTION Thread
Post by: mandurahmum on July 21, 2010, 05:35:19 PM
Thanks for that Rebel.

You are right - Uranium mining is not just about the money we can make, nor should any mining be only be about the money. 

Just look at the problems at Wittenoom - no one wants to clean up that mess do they.  That mine has been closed for over 44 years now - but it is still contaminated - the whole area is.  The governments response was to just take Wittenoom off the maps.

Can we guarantee this fiasco wont happen again - of course we cant.

 



Title: Re: The ELECTION Thread
Post by: shyer on July 21, 2010, 06:22:48 PM
I thought this discussion was about the election, mines have operated under labour and liberal govenments because most Australians like the income. A "I love MAO" T shirt is no mandate ANYWHERE even in China he is being erased from history. One of the largest mass murders of history.

Also closing existing mines is changing the rules AFTER investment made and approval given. Immoral , unethical and illegal.

If case you had not noticed all uranium mined is used for peaceful uses, mostly to replace CO2 producing coal stations. And before some loonly leftie goes on about weapons. Nucelar weapons are being dismantled the real problem is biological or existing weapons.

 It is only the greens who want to turn life back to the middle ages except for them of course.
Title: Re: The ELECTION Thread
Post by: mandurahmum on July 21, 2010, 06:31:46 PM
Shyer - mining is an election issue.

You also state that all uranium is being used for peaceful means - can you prove that?  Of course you cant - no one can

Title: Re: The ELECTION Thread
Post by: bnwt on July 22, 2010, 08:14:30 AM
Hockey grilled on money matters

by Kerry (who cried on air when Keating got booted) O'Brien

and you wonder why I call the ABC the australian broadcasting commies

http://www.abc.net.au/news/video/2010/07/21/2960540.htm
Title: Re: The ELECTION Thread
Post by: shyer on July 22, 2010, 09:38:40 AM
Yes mum new mines may be an election issue for NIMBies. Existing mines are old issues
Title: Re: The ELECTION Thread
Post by: *r3830* on July 22, 2010, 09:51:23 AM
It looks like Kev may be playing "the barstard". But..... there is still a good hope for that UN seat! Just what he always wanted.


Kevin Rudd's one-man show haunts Julia Gillard

http://www.news.com.au/features/federal-election/kevin-rudds-one-man-show-haunts-julia-gillard/comments-e6frfllr-1225892542609 (http://www.news.com.au/features/federal-election/kevin-rudds-one-man-show-haunts-julia-gillard/comments-e6frfllr-1225892542609)
Title: Re: The ELECTION Thread
Post by: Rebel*1* on July 22, 2010, 12:11:23 PM
and you wonder why I call the ABC the australian broadcasting commies

Yes bnwt I do wonder.  Seems anyone or anything that doesn't resemble yours and shyer's political leanings are all leftists, commies, and whatever negatives you can come up with.  Hardly objective or well thought out.  At the end of the day, we're all Australians.   So how do you feel about SBS?  and Mainstream media by comparison?  

Would it surprise you to know that during the rebellion the only media entity that gave a stuff about consumers, and was willing to stand up against Ebay's 'gag' request, was ABC?  There was also one independent from The Australian and Asher Moses from SMH as well as ITwire.  That was it.

The Mainstream Media are so easily BOUGHT OFF, they're useless in reporting most things.  They pick and choose the news.  They also pick and choose which pollies, and issues of National importance, they are going to give coverage to.  As we see time and time again, it's always usually the most negative and superficial stories they can find.  

Nevertheless, even though the media and Pollies are ignoring this issue it is still one that many people want a National vote on, not just those with a vested interest calling all the shots.   There are a huge number of Australians it seems against Uranium mining and wondering why it isn't being put on the table as an election issue.  

However, as MM has pointed out, there's hardly a whisper about it in WA news media or National news media, when it should be top of the list.  That's because both sides of Politics have no intention of listening to the Australian people on this issue or giving us a National vote on Uranium mining.   If they don't put it forward as an election issue of National Importance, then I guess they can justify ignoring it and us, on both sides of the political fence.

For instance, While they're all distracting us over bullshit, the ALP are quietly planning to turn a part of our country into a Nuclear waste dump.

This is at the very heart of the dispute over Nuclear power.  Where does the radioactive waste produced by Nuclear Power get dumped?  Do you have any suggestions?  Should they dump that on Naru too?  


Fallout over NT nuclear dump site

http://www.theage.com.au/national/fallout-over-nt-nuclear-dump-site-20100226-p97i.html

Federal Resources Minister Martin Ferguson revealed this week the government plans to pursue Muckaty as its nuclear dump site, saying it is the only place in Australia that had been ''volunteered''. He introduced legislation that gives the government power to override a threat by the Northern Territory to block the dump at Muckaty, an earthquake-prone area 120 kilometres north of Tennant Creek.

If the dump - or radioactive waste repository as bureaucrats call it - is built, about 4000 cubic metres of waste that has been accumulating in small stores in southern states during the past 50 years would be transported there, by rail or road. Trucks would relocate 2000 cubic metres of radioactive soil from the Woomera defence area in South Australia. Stockpiles of waste from Sydney's Lucas Heights reactor would be transported through dozens of cities and towns to reach the dump site, 10 kilometres from the busy Stuart Highway and eight kilometres from where people live at the station homestead.

In 2015 and 2016, about 32 cubic metres of highly radioactive waste from the reprocessing of spent research reactor fuel that Australia has sent to Scotland and France over decades is planned to be transported to Muckaty, probably via ships docking at Darwin Harbour, 1000 kilometres to the north.

Mr Ferguson is determined to push ahead with Muckaty despite strong objections from environmental and indigenous groups, the NT government and some Labor federal MPs who object to a dump being imposed on the territory.


And people think Nuclear power is 'clean'?.   If it produces deadly waste, it is NOT sustainable, and definitely a FALSE economy for Australians, no matter how many bags of beads they offer.

BTW, this is the Labour Party doing all this, and if the Coalition were in Govt. it would be them doing it.  The one sure fact is that the Mining companies have influence over BOTH sides of politics.  Is that in our National Interests?  And meanwhile they are crying poor when it comes to paying $3.00 in $7.00 rather than the piddly $1.00 in $7.00 they currently pay?  What a total rape of all integrity that is.

No wonder neither party is daring to mention it.  They both stink when it comes to putting the Mining companies in their place.  Money talks louder than National Interest irrespective of the party.  We're the bunnies in the middle being lied to by both sides.  That's why we need the Greens in the Senate Shyer, so issues like this don't get covered up.  They are the only party even mentioning it.

Title: Re: The ELECTION Thread
Post by: Rebel*1* on July 22, 2010, 12:22:10 PM
Now consider the danger this open door policy is going to present to the world in terms of Nuclear Weapons proliferation.

Obama Nuclear Weapons and the Future of the Planet
Helen Caldicott
Founding President of Physicians for Social Responsibility and Founder of Womens Action for Nuclear Disarmament
Posted: April 26, 2010 02:33 PM

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/helen-caldicott/obama-nuclear-weapons-and_b_550282.html

Isn't it strange?

In the 1980's an overwhelming 80% of Americans wanted to see an end to the nuclear arms race. The U.S. establishment treated this grassroots movement almost as an aberration, virtually ignoring it.

This massive, global, grassroots movement helped bring an end to the Cold War. But, throughout the duration of the Bush, Clinton, and G.W. Bush presidencies there was no respect for, no move to act on, the wishes of the American people and the worldwide supporters of nuclear disarmament.

Isn't it strange, that it was only last year, when the former champions of nuclear weaponry- Henry Kissinger, George Schultz, Bill Perry and Sam Nunn, wrote an article in the Wall Street Journal calling for the abolition of nuclear weapons that the establishment "woke up" and started to take this notion seriously?

No doubt Barak Obama was influenced by this philosophy when he attended Columbia University. He almost certainly witnessed the million-strong peace march in Central Park, June 1982. And, during that time he wrote two articles calling for nuclear disarmament between Russia and the U.S.

This early period in the life of President Obama is clearly one of the motivating influences of his presidency. He is the only U.S. President ever to call for the abolition of nuclear weapons. Now, however, he is facing two of the most powerful forces in the world: the Military Industrial Complex, and the nuclear weapons labs.

He is a brilliant politician who exhibits patience and wisdom when dealing with his adversaries. But, the Nuclear Policy review recently published by the Pentagon exhibits no evidence that the U.S. Military establishment intends to decrease its essential reliance upon nuclear weapons, which remain the cornerstone of its military arsenal.

$5.5 billion dollars have been allocated to Los Alamos Labs to continue the development of new plutonium pits for new nuclear weapons scheduled for production in the future. The U.S. missile defense program stands unabated, and is forging ahead using Iran and North Korea as its raison d'être.

In this scenario we are only, ever, minutes away from Armageddon and the truth is the world is sick and tired of being held hostage by nuclear warriors whose 20th century mindset cannot seem to comprehend this. They insist on maintaining thousands of hydrogen bombs in ground, and sea, based missiles, on high alert, ready to be launched within minutes leaving us vulnerable to human or computer error, to hackers (domestic and foreign), and to the sheer adrenalin and anxiety of political crisis.

During the tragic events of 9/11 the nuclear command moved the country to the highest state of nuclear alert, ready to launch, simply because that is U.S. policy when faced with an unexplained state of emergency. The utter devastation of a nuclear response, had it occurred, would have dwarfed not only the horror of 9/11, but of anything imaginable.

Ninety-five percent of the approximately 23,000 nuclear weapons in the world are owned by the United States and Russia. Despite the extreme secrecy surrounding military information we must assume from available information that at any given minute 15-40 hydrogen bombs target New York, and Washington D.C, Moscow, Leningrad, and more of the worlds major cities. The effect of one 550 kt weapon on a city like Washington D.C. would be devastating. Imagine 40 and start doing the math. In fact, there is at least one hydrogen bomb targeting most towns with populations of over 100,000. This is true in Russia, China, Europe, Canada, and the U.S.

The stark truth is that one single failure of nuclear deterrence could end human history. The operational and deployed nuclear arsenals of Russia and the U.S. hold the human race and all other species captive and at nuclear ransom. I am sickened that we still play this deadly game of nuclear risk with our fragile planet. There are no national or political goals that justify a war that could terminate human existence. What terrifying accident or act of aggression must happen to wake people and our leaders to this reality? This cannot be how we learn if we wish to avoid nuclear Armageddon, and nuclear winter.

Once initiated, it would take one hour to trigger a swift, sudden end to life on this planet. The clock on global warming is ticking louder and louder. Nuclear war and nuclear winter would be a strange way to stop it.


Does that give anyone pause?  Nuclear power is dangerous in ANYONE'S hands especially the US. 
Title: Re: The ELECTION Thread
Post by: bnwt on July 22, 2010, 01:31:27 PM
warning warning leftie propaganda

rebel as soon as saw "Founding President of Physicians for Social Responsibility and Founder of Womens Action for Nuclear Disarmament" .. I knew to immediately disregard any further on the page

when will these people begin to realise what idiots they appear

by all means have a point of view but stop giving yourself such stupid titles
Title: Re: The ELECTION Thread
Post by: Rebel*1* on July 22, 2010, 05:28:49 PM
Well then bnwt, I feel sorry that you are so closed minded.  The person you are disregarding and disrespecting as a 'leftist loonie' has an incredible list of credentials and achievements.  What do you offer as your credential for such ignorance of a more informed view by comparison?

Born in Melbourne, Australia in 1938, Dr Caldicott received her medical degree from the University of Adelaide Medical School in 1961. She founded the Cystic Fibrosis Clinic at the Adelaide Children's Hospital in 1975 and subsequently was an instructor in pediatrics at Harvard Medical School and on the staff of the Children's Hospital Medical Center, Boston, Mass., until 1980 when she resigned to work full time on the prevention of nuclear war.

In 1971, Dr Caldicott played a major role in Australia's opposition to French atmospheric nuclear testing in the Pacific; in 1975 she worked with the Australian trade unions to educate their members about the medical dangers of the nuclear fuel cycle, with particular reference to uranium mining.

While living in the United States from 1977 to 1986, she co-founded the Physicians for Social Responsibility, an organization of 23,000 doctors committed to educating their colleagues about the dangers of nuclear power, nuclear weapons and nuclear war. On trips abroad she helped start similar medical organizations in many other countries. The international umbrella group (International Physicians for the Prevention of Nuclear War) won the Nobel Peace Prize in 1985. She also founded the Women's Action for Nuclear Disarmament (WAND) in the US in 1980.

Returning to Australia in 1987, Dr Caldicott ran for Federal Parliament as an independent. Defeating Charles Blunt, leader of the National Party, through preferential voting she ultimately lost the election by 600 votes out of 70,000 cast.

She moved back to the United States in 1995, lecturing at the New School for Social Research on the Media, Global Politics and the Environment, hosting a weekly radio talk show on WBAI (Pacifica), and becoming the Founding President of the STAR (Standing for Truth About Radiation) Foundation.

Dr Caldicott has received many prizes and awards for her work, including the Lannan Foundation's 2003 Prize for Cultural Freedom and 21 honorary doctoral degrees, and she was personally nominated for the Nobel Peace Prize by Linus Pauling - himself a Nobel Laureate.

The Smithsonian Institute has named Dr Caldicott as one of the most influential women of the 20th Century. She has written for numerous publications and has authored seven books, Nuclear Madness, Missile Envy, If You Love This Planet: A Plan to Heal the Earth (1992, W.W. Norton) and A Desperate Passion: An Autobiography (1996, W.W. Norton; published as A Passionate Life in Australia by Random House), The New Nuclear Danger: George Bush’s Military Industrial Complex (2001, The New Press in the US, UK and UK; Scribe Publishing in Australia and New Zealand; Lemniscaat Publishers in The Netherlands; and Hugendubel Verlag in Germany), Nuclear Power is Not the Answer (2006, The New Press in the US, UK and UK; Melbourne University Press in Australia) and War In Heaven (March 2007). Dr. Caldicott’s most recent book is the revised and updated If You Love This Planet (March 2009).

She also has been the subject of several films, including Eight Minutes to Midnight, nominated for an Academy Award in 1981, If You Love This Planet, which won the Academy Award for best documentary in 1982, and Helen’s War: portrait of a dissident, recipient of the Australian Film Institute Awards for Best Direction (Documentary) 2004, and the Sydney Film Festival Dendy Award for Best Documentary in 2004.

Dr Caldicott currently divides her time between Australia and the US where she lectures widely. She founded the US-based Nuclear Policy Research Institute (NPRI), which evolved into Beyond Nuclear, of which Dr Caldicott is Founding President. Beyond Nuclear aims to educate and activate the public about the connections between nuclear power and nuclear weapons and the need to abandon both to safeguard our future.

Dr Caldicott can be heard discussing urgent planetary survival issues on her weekly radio show If You Love This Planet, and is the Founder and Spokesperson for People for a Nuclear-Free Australia, established to represent the millions of Australians who uphold the strong belief that there should be no uranium mining, nuclear power plants or foreign nuclear waste in Australia.

Dr Caldicott is also a member of the International Scientific Advisory Board advising José Luis Rodríguez Zapatero, Prime Minister of Spain.


Can you top that for qualification while you ignorantly dismiss a more informed, educated and esteemed opinion?  

For my money, I'll give this lady at least the respect she's earned with such dedication, education and knowledge.  But then, I'm a tad more open minded than some.  

Sociological leanings aside,  Social responsibility (which is what she is a proponent of) is NOT communism or socialist rhetoric.   That same organisation you dismiss, (because it contains the word 'Social') comprises 23,000 trained medical practitioners in the US & Australia with many more worldwide.  The international umbrella group of this same organisation Caldicott founded (International Physicians for the Prevention of Nuclear War) won the Nobel Peace Prize in 1985.

Are they all socialist left wing commies too?  What's in a name right?  
Title: Re: The ELECTION Thread
Post by: mandurahmum on July 22, 2010, 06:05:35 PM
Yes mum new mines may be an election issue for NIMBies. Existing mines are old issues

hello Shyer - I am talking about new mines. 

May I ask where you are from?
Title: Re: The ELECTION Thread
Post by: mandurahmum on July 22, 2010, 06:09:18 PM
Rebel - thanks for the info. 

Title: Re: The ELECTION Thread
Post by: bnwt on July 22, 2010, 06:13:57 PM
anyone that tags them self with Founder of Womens Action for Nuclear Disarmament ... that applies any group not just nuclear disarmament ... is a joke and should be avoided

womens action group ........... that is so sexist .... no ....... that is just hilariously 80's

I would say it needs a more inclusive title  ........ Founder of the Green Non Gender Specific Howard/Bush Hating ABC Loving No War in Iraq Inner City Organic Non Violent Affirmative Action Nuclear Disarmament GLBT Collective

I don't have a closed mind ......... I know if you have a message you want to attract listeners, go about it the right way

if you boast loudly you are a leftie the only people that will listen are other lefties .... sane people will have already lost interest

it's not what she's says it's how

Title: Re: The ELECTION Thread
Post by: *Brum6y* on July 22, 2010, 06:16:52 PM


it's not what she's says it's how



I already made that point.  Not being comprehended here.
Title: Re: The ELECTION Thread
Post by: Rebel*1* on July 22, 2010, 06:40:06 PM
Brumby he was referring to Caldicott, and your unfounded personal opinion of me has nothing to do with the subject at hand.  IN any reasoned debate You don't get to impose your own standards of PC over any opposing opinion by way of shooting the messenger while ignoring the message.  That's just oppressive.


anyone that tags them self with Founder of Womens Action for Nuclear Disarmament ... that applies any group not just nuclear disarmament ... is a joke and should be avoided


bnwt, so on the basis of that you dismiss everything else this person has ever been involved in or achieved?   Isn't that discriminative and small minded?   At the turn of the century, women didn't have the right to vote, own a home or have any say whatsoever over the custody of their children.  I could educate you on the Women's movement that allowed us mere 'hysterical females' the privilege of having a vote, but frankly it's up to you to educate yourself mate.   Sexist Really?  

In Australia:  

1901: Women in Australia get the vote, with some restrictions.

1902: Women in New South Wales get the vote.

1902: Australia grants more voting rights to women.

You somehow think that women shouldn't stick together as men did for centuries in their own best interests, prior to us being granted the most basic of rights?  Voting?  Give me a break.  Women have had only a century of equal rights mate in something as basic as voting.  I'll be happy to see a reasoned debate any time soon, on 'equal pay' for 'equal skill' devoid of the gender bias in pay and salary rates that still exists even now.

As for our Indigenous mates, well their right to vote happened much later.  I think it's about time to hear from the 'silenced' majority.



Title: Re: The ELECTION Thread
Post by: Rebel*1* on July 22, 2010, 06:50:59 PM
Rebel - thanks for the info. 



You're welcome M/Mum, us goils have to stick together, and of course common sense, is just not that common is it?  Maybe Julia can bring something that basic to the table as our First Female Prime Minister. 

We can only hope. 
Title: Re: The ELECTION Thread
Post by: *Brum6y* on July 22, 2010, 06:57:06 PM
Rebel - My earlier comments were directed at exactly the same concept that BNWT expressed - and that they were irrespective of who presented a message, just how it was presented.  This actually puts you and Caldicott on the same level on this point.

You're the one taking things as 'personal' attacks and I find that a very weak argument as an excuse to oppress people with an opinion that differs from yours.
Title: Re: The ELECTION Thread
Post by: *Brum6y* on July 22, 2010, 07:00:46 PM

IN any reasoned debate You don't get to impose your own standards of PC over any opposing opinion by way of shooting the messenger while ignoring the message.  That's just oppressive.


I couldn't have said it better.
Title: Re: The ELECTION Thread
Post by: mandurahmum on July 22, 2010, 07:12:57 PM
Don Randall - our federal MP may be given a run for his money.  Alana Mactiernan has now resigned from state parliament to contest his seat.

She probably has a lot of support - she gave us what we were promised for over 20 years - a train.  It probably does not seem like much - but it used to take nearly 2 hours to get to perth from here on the buses - now its a 46 min train trip.  And like I said - it was promised for over 20 years.

We also were lucky if we had a bus every hour - on weekends it was every 2 hours.  And the last bus back to Mandurah left Perth at around 8pm.

Now we have a train every 10 - 15 mins and they run till midnight.

This has not only brought a lot of day trippers to our town - it has also given the elderly more freedom.  My grandmother and her friends will often spend hours on the train to escape the heat in summer.  They ride it to Joondalup - get off have a cup of tea then go back.

And the cctv on the train is just superb - you know you are fairly safe - because there are guards at every station and if they spot someone doing the wrong thing on the train - they are kicked off at the next station.



Title: Re: The ELECTION Thread
Post by: Rebel*1* on July 22, 2010, 07:19:30 PM
Rebel - My earlier comments were directed at exactly the same concept that BNWT expressed - and that they were irrespective of who presented a message, just how it was presented.  This actually puts you and Caldicott on the same level on this point.

You're the one taking things as 'personal' attacks and I find that a very weak argument as an excuse to oppress people with an opinion that differs from yours.


Well, if you want to put me on the same level as Caldicott, I feel honoured, though it would only be in so far as committment and common sense.  She's got it all over any of us with actual knowledge.  As for me misconstruing the terms 'lefty', 'Greenie', 'Commie', 'Socialist', 'sexist' as being anything other than small minded subjective name calling, I think you're completely mistaken.  That kind of rhetoric is personal, but not on my part.  I'm just at the receiving end of all that apparently logical abuse?

I haven't called anyone any similar names by comparison, for their political leanings.  I'm neither left or right, I've said that already.  I'm against the ALP if they want to turn our Country into a Nuclear waste dump on that issue specifically.  Who wouldn't be, but the Libs will give us nothing different.   

All I've done is provide examples of what's being said by those in the 'know', every time a discriminative generalisation is made. 

Do you speak on behalf of people like MM Brumby? who are on the 'front line'? Seems to me she's been completely open minded, unprejudiced and gracious by comparison.   
Title: Re: The ELECTION Thread
Post by: Rebel*1* on July 22, 2010, 07:24:43 PM

IN any reasoned debate You don't get to impose your own standards of PC over any opposing opinion by way of shooting the messenger while ignoring the message.  That's just oppressive.


I couldn't have said it better.

Then maybe you should walk the way you 'would have' talked and stop being so subjective. ?

Did you forget this preceding sentence in context?  "your unfounded personal opinion of me has nothing to do with the subject at hand".
Title: Re: The ELECTION Thread
Post by: mandurahmum on July 22, 2010, 07:26:26 PM
shyer you talk about nimby's as if there was something wrong with that.  You are right that I am very concerned over what is happening over here - and why shouldn't I be - its my home.

You also think that I am anti mining - well that is very wrong - I am all for responsible mining if its done correctly, and with a lot of consultation with the locals.  This does not seem to happen over here - the indigenous people are concerned about the Kimberley - and why shouldn't they be.  It has been their home for a lot longer than its been ours.  The Kimberley also has a lot of sacred sites for them - and a lot of rock art that is thousands of years old.  They even have dinosaur footprints in some of the rocks.

its just that we dont trust mining companies to do the right thing - and we have proof.  Just look at Barrow Island.  60 breaches since September last year. - 5 critical and 2 major.  

http://www.perthnow.com.au/news/western-australia/chevrons-barrow-island-project-leads-to-alleged-environment-breaches/story-e6frg13u-1225874707056 (http://www.perthnow.com.au/news/western-australia/chevrons-barrow-island-project-leads-to-alleged-environment-breaches/story-e6frg13u-1225874707056)

and they have not been prosecuted for any breaches.  Even though they are putting at risk some endangered animals.  So you see - we know that even with strict guidelines - companies can break them without fear of retribution.



Title: Re: The ELECTION Thread
Post by: *Brum6y* on July 22, 2010, 07:29:52 PM

Do you speak on behalf of people like MM Brumby? who are on the 'front line'? Seems to me she's been completely open minded, unprejudiced and gracious by comparison.   


I make absolutely no assertion to speak on behalf of any particular person - unless I hold their proxy to do so (which, on this thread, I have none.)

I only make comment on things as they appear to me and could only presume that, as an Australian of no particular significance, there are others who may not disagree with some of the things I say.

I find it troubling that you have seen fit to associate my comments with MM. Is that how you wish to discredit me - by making up your own associations and then shooting me down because of them?


You want me to be silent? - then so be it.
Title: Re: The ELECTION Thread
Post by: Rebel*1* on July 22, 2010, 07:31:20 PM
Look out mum, you run the risk of being called a 'loonie leftist greenie' if you dare speak your mind as someone being directly affected.  Woe be tied if you actually have an opinion that puts dollar value second to longer term risk.  You bloody lefty you !!!.  lmao

Why isn't Sustainable Mining an election issue one has to ask?  



Title: Re: The ELECTION Thread
Post by: *Brum6y* on July 22, 2010, 07:35:39 PM

 "your unfounded personal opinion ".


That was your invention.

My original comment only ever commented on how your message was presented.
Title: Re: The ELECTION Thread
Post by: Rebel*1* on July 22, 2010, 07:37:45 PM
I find it troubling that you have seen fit to associate my comments with MM. Is that how you wish to discredit me - by making up your own associations and then shooting me down because of them?

I find it troubling that you seek to blame your own 'reactions' and negative interpretations on somebody else.  I made the 'distinct point' that MM cared about this issue and by comparison was following the debate graciously, with an open mind and without prejudice to the word 'social' discrediting all else beyond that point in the mind of some.  What you make of that is your interpretation only.  Perhaps you need to skip to an opposite point of view for a while and imagine walking a mile in other people's shoes.  Like the Indigenous Locals of those regions.

I have, (but then, I've actually been to many of those regions) I consider the economy while I'm considering 'SUSTAINABLE' and 'RESPONSIBLE' mining in this country and equal rights to the rightful land owners.    There needs to be a balance.  There isn't.
Title: Re: The ELECTION Thread
Post by: Rebel*1* on July 22, 2010, 07:39:42 PM

 "your unfounded personal opinion ".


That was your invention.

My original comment only ever commented on how your message was presented.


So in effect, you admit to SHOOTING THE MESSENGER???  in defense of ignoring the message?  Not subjective?  Not conditional? What are you a PC prefect?
Title: Re: The ELECTION Thread
Post by: *Brum6y* on July 22, 2010, 08:07:53 PM
Now that is personal - aside from being a distortion of the truth.


... and if that is the level on which you wish to conduct discussion - then I'll leave you with it.
Title: Re: The ELECTION Thread
Post by: golden on July 22, 2010, 09:02:34 PM
Am I allowed to do this?  or is it sniping from the side?   :lol:

[attachment deleted by admin]
Title: Re: The ELECTION Thread
Post by: golden on July 22, 2010, 09:04:09 PM
I've been waiting for ages for it to fit someone else!!  Thnx   :roflmao:

[attachment deleted by admin]
Title: Re: The ELECTION Thread
Post by: Nightparrot on July 22, 2010, 09:16:07 PM
Hey everyone, I think Julia Gillard is doing OK, I prefer her and most of her cabinet to what's on offer from the Libs. However, the local member is a hard working Lib who I have a lot of resepct for. So what to do? I am thinking I should go for the strong local member. What do you think?
Title: Re: The ELECTION Thread
Post by: mandurahmum on July 22, 2010, 09:24:11 PM
Nightparrot - I am in the same boat.  Don Randall is my federal member - a Liberal.  But that aside he certainly looks after us in his electorate, which is more than other politicians have in the past.   You can guarantee that if you email him with a question - you will get a response.

Title: Re: The ELECTION Thread
Post by: wyzeguy60 on July 22, 2010, 09:33:17 PM
well, after many hours of reading this thread it has become painfully clear why I " never " show my hand anymore on forums in regards to politics.
I do discuss politics many issues and it may surprise many that I studied politics at UNI in 1979.
I will only do it face to face in a comfortable environment where both sides can clearly be heard and disseminated carefully.

Too many friends to lose IMO over such arguments.

I will ask one thing though that is vaguely political.

Q. How much more performance does a race car have when you change the driver ?

A. None - the only difference will be how good or bad the driver is !

 ;D


Title: Re: The ELECTION Thread
Post by: golden on July 22, 2010, 09:35:26 PM
I agree with Nightparrot.   What do you do?   Can I ask is it bad/good for us to have 50 Libs, 50 ALP, and 50 Independent/Greens?  When on this occasion there seems to be no clear winner?  or do I just vote for the hottest chickie babe handing out the cards?  ;D

Title: Re: The ELECTION Thread
Post by: Rebel*1* on July 22, 2010, 09:57:51 PM
Now that is personal - aside from being a distortion of the truth.


... and if that is the level on which you wish to conduct discussion - then I'll leave you with it.

Oh give me a break Brumby.   

You interjected out of the blue with your subjective pearl of wisdom  aimed at me, based on something bnwt was aiming at Caldicott.    I simply addressed it, ducked, and returned it to the sender. 

We are debating political issues, and those issues that should be in this upcoming election, for all Aussies to decide.  We are not debating my communication style.  I consider that completely subjective and personal in light of the thread topic.

As for the pitfalls of discussing politics, we are approaching a federal election, so how can anyone be expected to say nothing on issues they find relevant to them personally, or this country generally? 

You're right though Wyseguy, changing drivers won't improve the performance of the clapped out vehicle that is Australian Govt. generally.

Title: Re: The ELECTION Thread
Post by: MrsFluffyDodgers on July 22, 2010, 10:46:01 PM
I agree with Nightparrot.   What do you do?   Can I ask is it bad/good for us to have 50 Libs, 50 ALP, and 50 Independent/Greens?  When on this occasion there seems to be no clear winner?  or do I just vote for the hottest chickie babe handing out the cards?  ;D



Hellloooo Golden....   ;D   - Just signed up to hand out the cards. 
Title: Re: The ELECTION Thread
Post by: wyzeguy60 on July 22, 2010, 10:56:06 PM
the farmers are doing it tough MrsFluffyDodgers

see this poor lass here

(http://www.unloosen.com/thestuff/archives/tractor%20girl_5265.jpg)

 ;D
Title: Re: The ELECTION Thread
Post by: MrsFluffyDodgers on July 22, 2010, 11:21:08 PM
Oooooh Helllooo Mr Wyzeguy60  (Does this mean you are sixty years young or is that how many pushups you can do?)

that is a fine speciman of a woman you have shown there, but I have first dibs on Golden....
Title: Re: The ELECTION Thread
Post by: golden on July 23, 2010, 12:16:49 AM
  but but  Mrs D.....    :huh: :'( :tanty:

 :tangorose:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MKaZxafu_GY (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MKaZxafu_GY)
Title: Re: The ELECTION Thread
Post by: mandurahmum on July 23, 2010, 02:04:15 AM
Golden - Is the government in general doing enough to help our farmers?  Is there one thing that they could do to make life easier and more profitable for the farmer?

The only farms around where I live are Horse Studs - most of them are laughing all the way to the bank, but I know this is not typical of all farmers. 

Farmers are important to us - unfortunately I dont know any to ask, but I am interested in what is important to different people.

Ta
Title: Re: The ELECTION Thread
Post by: golden on July 23, 2010, 05:39:52 AM
Hi Jane.  I guess farms come in all shapes and sizes, from small intensive berry/flower operations to massive grazing/cropping properties. Therefor what affects a salmon farm in Tassie doesn't matter to a mango grower in FNQ. We are in central Vic and produce lambs and crops such as barley, oats, wheat, I can only speak for myself.

All Aussies though believe we are a continent and should be taking advantage of that. We need to promote ourselves around the world as CLEAN, GREEN and FRESH. Free of crippling diseases like mad cow, rabies, foot and mouth etc..and ethical farmers in the way we treat our animals. With a traceable structure in place, if out breaks were to occur. The Govt need to provide funding for that, a small outlay considering the benefits to an industry that provides 12% of GDP.

Genetically modified crops is a big issue here. Most people see these foods as being "untested" contaminates, being pushed down our throats by large multi nationals like Monsanto and destroying that image.  I don't want them, others do, but the Govt seem to have some wishy woshy views and once they are allowed in all areas, there will never be a turning back point.

Climate change is also a hot topic, not so much for the reasons in the thread on this subject but because we just WILL NOT stand for being taxed every time our sheep farts. Its a stupid argument and Aussie farmers wont buy it.

On a national issue we really need to get food labelling sorted. Again large companies like Coles and Woolies get away with things like  "product of Aus" etc and no one really understands what any of it means.  I believe most of us would support Australian farmers over imports but we just don't know which is which. That's a federal issue and they need to stand up and set strict, easy to understand guidelines.

Govt is a poor neighbour.  If you border a forest or crown land they wont pay their half of the fence for eg, they allow feral animals to breed out of control.  They allow massive numbers of lice infected roos/foxes etc here, they dont feed them in droughts, provide water, but take away our rights to shoot them or poison them. We just have to suffer them, the damage they do, the feed they steal, the lambs they kill.  We will be prosecuted if we dont control our weeds, yet they can let them run rampant on roadsides.  If they provided $$ and equipment most farmers would do the controlling for them.  There is way too much bureaucratic paper work to even deal with these govt departments.  We see all our levies going towards all these conferences but no action on the ground.

We've had a couple of good years lately, we are not complaining about commodity prices we are getting at well maintained livestock centres near us.  This will end though if sound management isn't in place.  Like everything it could be done better, and alot of farmers are ageing and pretty stuck in their ways.  PETA is a good example of that.  Some of their ideas are  "öut there"  (like calling fish, sea kittens, so people wont eat them)others need to be dealt with (like mulesing) and work with these influential groups rather than against them.

Every American eats 600gms of garlic per annum, but only 400 grams of lamb (2 chops) if they ate 4 chops the world would never keep up with lamb production again.  Thats the sort of promoting/trade talking, I would like to see.  So therefor I'm voting for Sam Kekovich  ;D  
Title: Re: The ELECTION Thread
Post by: bnwt on July 23, 2010, 09:41:22 AM
time for a good laugh

Signs point to Neal standing


http://www.smh.com.au/federal-election/signs-point-to-neal-standing-20100722-10mzr.html


don't you know who she is
Title: Re: The ELECTION Thread
Post by: bnwt on July 23, 2010, 10:58:18 AM
julia has been PM for a month

she said the three main issues that needed attention was 1. the mining tax  2. boat people  3. climate change

what score do you give her ??


I'd say ZERO out of three
Title: Re: The ELECTION Thread
Post by: *r3830* on July 23, 2010, 11:07:10 AM
In answer to your question bnwt...... -39!

I've posted this under the Global Warming thread as well - but it also has relevance here......

Protesters disrupt Julia Gillard's climate policy speech

"And, if I am wrong, and that group of Australians is not persuaded of the case for change, then that should be a clear warning bell that our community has not been persuaded as deeply as required."

Now.... don't ya absolutely LOVE the above quote! If you're not persuaded to say YES to global warming.... you will require further brainwashing! And.... just who the blardy hell says that this "theory" is undeniable fact anyhow????

http://www.news.com.au/features/federal-election/julia-gillard-to-hand-over-climate-policy-to-citizens-assembly/story-e6frfllr-1225895870006#ixzz0uSl4IOa5 (http://www.news.com.au/features/federal-election/julia-gillard-to-hand-over-climate-policy-to-citizens-assembly/story-e6frfllr-1225895870006#ixzz0uSl4IOa5)
Title: Re: The ELECTION Thread
Post by: Rebel*1* on July 23, 2010, 11:57:27 AM
Loco, I agree with the suspicious sentiment surrounding Global Warming, and the feeling that our pockets are continually wet with all of the hosing down of facts going on.  But I think many are skeptical (justifiably) because the public themselves have not been given the facts, and many of us can't really decide what we believe.  

I would like to see a 'non political' debate over several weeks on Global warming, held by the Scientists who are arguing for and against. Devoid of all political spin or economic overshadowing.  i.e. NO POLITICIANS or Lobby groups, or Big Business execs, just scientists.   I'd also like them to identify who the biggest polluters are because something tells me that Big Business will get exemptions up the ying yack in any carbon trading scheme, and we'll end up footing the bill for their share.  Just like Mining.   The massive increase in Electricity prices lately is a good example of just how much we're already being stitched in the name of 'Global Warming'.  It's obscene

In order for us (The Australian People) to vote on an issue this complicated and important Nationally, we have to know the facts.  

Then and only then can we cast an informed vote on each party's strategies for addressing it.  I for one have no idea what a Carbon Trading Scheme would impose on us mere mortals. I'd be much more interested in voting on a scheme that forces big business to work on developing cleaner technology, and reducing their contribution. Oh, and we'd have to give golden a sack of corks so he can stop all those sheep farting.  That's a problem, lmao.

Here's an example of why people become skeptical in the first place over Global warming.  

Several years ago, we had the hottest New Years Day in decades.  My Tree ferns literally melted.  No kidding.   The news media reported that we had not had a New Years Day that hot since 1938.  In the next sentence, they opined that it must be because of Global Warming.  It got my attention because there was an obvious anomaly in that conclusion.   How does Global Warming explain the same heat on the same day in 1938?  

Did a whole lot of cows fart in unison ?  This is the kind of bullshit (pun intended) that makes us all skeptical to some degree.

Everything that happens now, even the ferocity of bush fires, is being blamed on Global Warming, when in reality, wild fires happen because idiot greenies (see I said it) stand in the way of responsible fuel mitigation.  In that respect, I'd like to give the Greens an earful.   Like I said, neither left nor right but a bit of both depending on the issue.  No party has the balance completely right.  None.  

Reminds me of a saying:  It's not a matter of who is right or wrong, it's a matter of which wrong is more right.  

Title: Re: The ELECTION Thread
Post by: *r3830* on July 23, 2010, 12:31:43 PM
Rebel - Good morning!

I would like to see a 'non political' debate over several weeks on Global warming

There could well have been some time ago..... but it wasn't to be. Government has placed all its eggs in the one basket on global warming.... and their opinion is - in their own stated opinion - the only correct one. I know this to be fact - because Julia has told me that:

"And, if I am wrong, and that group of Australians is not persuaded of the case for change, then that should be a clear warning bell that our community has not been persuaded as deeply as required."

Politicians are never wrong.... simple rearrangement of the facts along with some imagination can see to that. Part of the above statement is quite correct - our community has not been persuaded - given the flawed and plainly fudged information that was 'created' to enhance the 'it is' side of the argument, and given the manipulation that was doctored by these very same people in preventing the alternate information from being made available so that people could see a balanced debate. Why did the PRO global warming believers have to LIE to put their case across? Was it that bad a losing battle?
A balanced - non political debate..... not at all likely, when the government is already backing its own horse! Even if confronted with absolute fact that global warming is NOT an issue - I don't see them changing their policies - other than pushing in the direction of say... Oxygen depletion.

Exemptions to business or otherwise.... business can't lose - as they'll pass on their costs to the consumer anyhow.

In order for us (The Australian People) to vote on an issue this complicated and important Nationally, we have to know the facts. 

The facts according to who? The government - or the 'deniers'? Another interesting term 'deniers'.... the alternative being the 'followers' who believe they can fly when they jump off a cliff..... following Mr Rudd! The sad thing is that their blind belief will see them all dead at the bottom of the cliff.

Did a whole lot of cows fart in unison ?

I like that thought! Perhaps it was a gaggle of ill informed politicians.

Rebel, I personally have nothing against the greenies. For mine, these people are doing what they feel is the right thing to do. But, in order to do the right thing - all things need balance. There has been very little balance whatsoever in the matter of Global Warming. But, on the upside ( at least for him) Mr Rudd may yet get that all important seat on the UN. That was something of far greater importance to him personally that were the people or the state of this nation.

Title: Re: The ELECTION Thread
Post by: bnwt on July 23, 2010, 01:26:09 PM
No Minister: 90% of web snoop document censored to stop 'premature unnecessary debate'



http://www.smh.com.au/technology/technology-news/no-minister-90-of-web-snoop-document-censored-to-stop--premature-unnecessary-debate-20100722-10mxo.html?autostart=1
Title: Re: The ELECTION Thread
Post by: Rebel*1* on July 23, 2010, 01:43:47 PM
Afternoon Loco, I have this vision of Lemmings?  Is that what they call em?.  LOL.  

Whether Abbott or Gillard are elected, the mining companies are the winners either way.  Abbott will abolish the mining tax, and that too has me curious.

I'd like to know what Abbott considers is a reasonable amount for the Australian people to receive, given that it was the previous Coalition Govt. who gave the mining companies such a free ride at $1.00 in $7.00.  Previously it was $1.00 in $3.00.  So by my math, the mining companies owe us at least twice what they've been paying for our resources, in back debt already.

Isn't anyone curious to know what Abbott intends to charge the mining companies?  He has said that a mining tax will get through over his dead political body, or words to that effect.  Isn't he saying in effect that he doesn't want to charge the mining companies more than they're already paying?.  
Title: Re: The ELECTION Thread
Post by: mandurahmum on July 23, 2010, 06:24:29 PM
Hi Jane.  I guess farms come in all shapes and sizes, from small intensive berry/flower operations to massive grazing/cropping properties. Therefor what affects a salmon farm in Tassie doesn't matter to a mango grower in FNQ. We are in central Vic and produce lambs and crops such as barley, oats, wheat, I can only speak for myself.

All Aussies though believe we are a continent and should be taking advantage of that. We need to promote ourselves around the world as CLEAN, GREEN and FRESH. Free of crippling diseases like mad cow, rabies, foot and mouth etc..and ethical farmers in the way we treat our animals. With a traceable structure in place, if out breaks were to occur. The Govt need to provide funding for that, a small outlay considering the benefits to an industry that provides 12% of GDP.

Genetically modified crops is a big issue here. Most people see these foods as being "untested" contaminates, being pushed down our throats by large multi nationals like Monsanto and destroying that image.  I don't want them, others do, but the Govt seem to have some wishy woshy views and once they are allowed in all areas, there will never be a turning back point.

Climate change is also a hot topic, not so much for the reasons in the thread on this subject but because we just WILL NOT stand for being taxed every time our sheep farts. Its a stupid argument and Aussie farmers wont buy it.

On a national issue we really need to get food labelling sorted. Again large companies like Coles and Woolies get away with things like  "product of Aus" etc and no one really understands what any of it means.  I believe most of us would support Australian farmers over imports but we just don't know which is which. That's a federal issue and they need to stand up and set strict, easy to understand guidelines.

Govt is a poor neighbour.  If you border a forest or crown land they wont pay their half of the fence for eg, they allow feral animals to breed out of control.  They allow massive numbers of lice infected roos/foxes etc here, they dont feed them in droughts, provide water, but take away our rights to shoot them or poison them. We just have to suffer them, the damage they do, the feed they steal, the lambs they kill.  We will be prosecuted if we dont control our weeds, yet they can let them run rampant on roadsides.  If they provided $$ and equipment most farmers would do the controlling for them.  There is way too much bureaucratic paper work to even deal with these govt departments.  We see all our levies going towards all these conferences but no action on the ground.

We've had a couple of good years lately, we are not complaining about commodity prices we are getting at well maintained livestock centres near us.  This will end though if sound management isn't in place.  Like everything it could be done better, and alot of farmers are ageing and pretty stuck in their ways.  PETA is a good example of that.  Some of their ideas are  "öut there"  (like calling fish, sea kittens, so people wont eat them)others need to be dealt with (like mulesing) and work with these influential groups rather than against them.

Every American eats 600gms of garlic per annum, but only 400 grams of lamb (2 chops) if they ate 4 chops the world would never keep up with lamb production again.  Thats the sort of promoting/trade talking, I would like to see.  So therefor I'm voting for Sam Kekovich  ;D  

Thanks Golden.

I agree with what you said about food labelling - I only want to buy food from either Australia or New Zealand - but you just cant tell with the ambigous labeling.  To me - product of Australia - should mean produced in Australia - the food not the package.  I do want to know where my food is grown.  I saw a doco on Vege's grown in China using human waste as a fertiliser - well I dont want to eat that food.  We do need truth in labeling.

I also agree with what you said about PETA - I am not a fan of theirs - they have done some good - but boy are their ideas out there.  Calling fish anything but fish is just stupid.  Fish is a staple of many peoples diets all over the world - and most of us fish responsibly.  I dont believe fishing is the reason our fish stocks are depleting - I actually think its the crap that we allow to enter the sea that is the main problem.  Just look at that huge rubbish dump in the sea in the Pacific - its twice the size of the USA.  Who the hell allowed that to happen, and why the hell has it not been cleaned up.  That is disgusting and disgraceful.  Apparently most of it is thrown off ships and oil platforms - Are these people just pigs.  We spend a lot of time on boats in the summer - and I can guarantee you that no rubbish is ever disgarded in the sea - we take it with us and then put it in a bin.  Its not hard.

I dont know much about mulsing - but I am sure that the farmers do this because it is neccesary - maybe you could tell me more about it.

I did watch a doco on Dr Peter Andrews (not our Peter Andrews) but another who is helping a lot of farmers with the water flow on their properties - and the struggles he has had making the government listen to him.  I have seen the work he does - and I cant understand it - this guy is remarkable - and it is not even new technology - its common sense.

I also did not know that about properties that border state forrests or crown land.  That certainly does not seem fair to farmers.

I did not know that the Yanks only eat 400 grams of lamb a year - I love a good lamb roast - they are certainly missing out. 
Title: Re: The ELECTION Thread
Post by: mandurahmum on July 23, 2010, 06:31:04 PM
I forget about gm food.  I dont get this - we have modifed our fruit and vegetables enough already - they no longer taste the way they used to - and that is a shame.  It may also be the reason we are getting so fat - a lot of fruit has lost its natural sweetness - so no wonder we prefer sugary crap.

Meat is also something we have fiddled with - I cant eat meat from Coles or Woolworths - they must do something to it - because half an hour after eatting it - i throw up.  Even when I dont know its from Coles or Woolworths - it makes me and my son sick.

Lucky for us - the local Farmer Jacks store is owned by a farmer who provides most of the beef and lamb we eat.  Its a little more expensive (its black angus) but it is so full of flavour and does not make me sick, so that is where we get our meat from.

At the same store - the fruit and veg section is owned by a farmer too - so most of the product is from his farm or other local farmers.

Title: Re: The ELECTION Thread
Post by: *r3830* on July 23, 2010, 06:32:43 PM
But then...... if they ate more Lamb in the US.... our producers would increase their exports, and the local market prices would rise much further than they presently are. Does the farmer earn $23 a kilo for his animals at market?
Title: Re: The ELECTION Thread
Post by: mandurahmum on July 23, 2010, 06:34:20 PM
But surely they can raise sheep in the USA.

Title: Re: The ELECTION Thread
Post by: *r3830* on July 23, 2010, 06:42:03 PM
I'm sure they can in most parts of the world..... but I'm told that we export the bulk of our production, and only the non-export component serves the local market. You mentioned Coles Mandura.... The beef that they pack here includes a high level of water.
Title: Re: The ELECTION Thread
Post by: mandurahmum on July 23, 2010, 06:54:11 PM
I'm sure they can in most parts of the world..... but I'm told that we export the bulk of our production, and only the non-export component serves the local market. You mentioned Coles Mandura.... The beef that they pack here includes a high level of water.

and preservatives.
Title: Re: The ELECTION Thread
Post by: *r3830* on July 23, 2010, 08:21:11 PM
Regarding Boat People.....

I'm told of an article that tells of the incoming boat people ...... and how they are concerned that if Labor loses the election - they won't be able to come here anymore.
Title: Re: The ELECTION Thread
Post by: mandurahmum on July 23, 2010, 10:39:53 PM
How exactly is abbot proposing to stop boat people - does he really think he can turn them back, because if that is his policy it will just lead to them blowing up their own boats - so not only will we still be housing them - we will be housing them in Hospitals in the Burns unit.  Or otherwise people will just jump of the boats - and then we have to rescue them - and then they just refuse to leave the boat and our boat gets tied up for months - because it cant do its job.

I live in WA - we are the ones that house the most - and it does annoy me - we spend more money on their accomodation than we do for the mentally ill of the community who live on the streets.

I dont know what the solution is - or if there is one

Title: Re: The ELECTION Thread
Post by: Rebel*1* on July 24, 2010, 12:25:21 PM
Mum, the solution certainly isn't fear.  This is 800 people.  We need to keep this media and Abbott generated hysteria in proportion to the problem.  Millions have fled Afghanistan in the past 9 years, and many more are fleeing Afghanistan presently until the expected resurgence is over with.  Australia receives a tiny proportion of those refugees.  Seems to me people are being socialised by media hysteria, into being fearful or resentful of these people rather than compassionate and tolerant. 

I've already highlighted that Afghanistan will soon be independently wealthy in their own right.  No longer a 3rd world country, but now a wealthy one and able to support itself.   It changes everything Mum. (as long as the US and mining companies don't get to exploit it, or create a whole new war over it)  It means that there is now 'hope' for the Afghan refugees Worldwide, to return to their otherwise impoverished and war torn country in the next few years. 

We need to change our point of view perhaps, and realise that once Afghanistan is safe and prosperous many will want to go home.  We are simply offering a safe harbour.  In that regard, I happen to agree with Abbott, that Temporary Protection Visa's should be reinstated.  It makes sense to me, but his other views on the issue do not make sense in context with the bigger picture.  He refuses to acknowledge the push factors remember?  Says they have nothing to do with 'boat people'?  How dumb is that?. 

Nevertheless, getting back to the election:

I've just been watching Julia Gillards Press conference, and I have to say, she presented in a humorous and gracious manner, no cheer squad, she was interacting with the media in an intelligent fashion and explained each of her policies.  Quite impressive.

Now I'm watching Abbott give a speech to his party faithful in WA and what a wonk.  He entered via a US style anthem, with huge applause from his own party faithful (so what), and then proceeded to give the most shallow 'slogan' heavy speech I've heard from any Coalition/Lib leader ever (even Johnny).

They really are scraping the bottom of the barrel with this bloke.  His entire speech this morning, was about dissing Gillard,  not intelligently addressing her policies, or explaining what he stands for by comparison.  Just harping on that the sky is about to fall if we elect Gillard?  What a joke.  Does he imagine that Aussies are so dumb they don't want to be informed of why the sky will fall if we elect her, and why it won't if we elect him?  I haven't heard one positive policy from that guy yet.  It's all fear and slogan.

Just go and watch the Sky news coverage of Gillards press conference and then watch the Party Faithful speech by Abbott and his press meeting by comparison.

Oh, and his new catch word drives me up the wall 'Shambolic'.  Sloganism 101. 

Now he's going on about interest rates?  Oh please.  I have a very good memory when it comes to a time when 'Australians had never been better off'  Famous last words?  along with 'Australia will never have a GST' ?.  The say anything to get elected approach?

I hope Abbott is stupid enough to argue interest rates because that alone will be his undoing with those of us who remember the last few years of the Coalition Govt.  Highest interest rates ever.   They couldn't keep the interest rates down then and they won't be able to now.  Just more spin.
Title: Re: The ELECTION Thread
Post by: Rebel*1* on July 24, 2010, 12:43:57 PM
OH, lol and one thing he said that was outstandingly condescending.  He said that The Australian people don't want to admit they got it wrong (i.e. by electing the ALP at the last election).  Oh really?

Does anyone remember what was really happening in 2006-2007 in terms of the huge disparity between 'have's and have nots'?  It's illuminating when you look at the State of the nation in those two years in particular, vs the state of the Rich in those same years.

It's not surprising that Howard was voted out when you look back at some of the statistics vs his famous last words "Australians have never been better off".  He just didn't say which Australians. 
Title: Re: The ELECTION Thread
Post by: shyer on July 24, 2010, 02:49:36 PM
I think abbot has too many negatives against him to win this election. He is relativly unknown , he is not popular with women, he does not have a good TV or internet style. Gillard is still in her honeymoon period with voters and has many free women votes.

Is she Australias first PM to be living in a de-facto arrangement? I know a lage number of Australians do live that way, but is society ready to say it is acceptable for the highest elected office?

I hope Gillard wins. As I do not see the GFC as over , China demand is slowing again, we have massivelly overpriced housing and interest rates rising. I see huge problems no party in power will not escape blame for. Gillard another one term PM.

The real danger is if Greens get the balance of power in the senate. That could take decades to sort the mess out they WILL create. Vote for who you like for the lower house. BUT for the senate a vote for labour could be a vote for the greens. WHO has experience in running this country and is accountable? Labour and Liberals FULL STOP. Let them keep the lower house accountable

Whitlam in 3 years bought Australias economy to is knees, The greens could send us back to the horse and cart and volunteer cavalry bread knives only , as the only defence force.
Title: Re: The ELECTION Thread
Post by: Rebel*1* on July 24, 2010, 04:25:55 PM
Shyer, no offense, but that's completely irrespective, defacto is the same thing when it comes to 'community property' 'Child custody' issues and child support etc.  Unbelievable that anyone wants to focus on such shallow distinctions in this century.  But no doubt Abbott will be raising that too very soon in true 'toe cutting' form as always.  Let's face it, he just isn't as articulate or as intelligent as Julia Gillard and it shows.

BTW, She didn't move into the lodge simply to dodge that kind of subjective prejudice.  Smart lady. 

As for her being elected just because she's a woman, that too is the same shallow crap Abbott is trying to feed us all.  Now he's making it about gender?  I'd like to see him win that argument with the Women of this country.  Tokenism is what he's preaching and that's just ridiculous in light of Gillards actual skills.    What a sham.  It's not only women who are giving her support, it's anyone who isn't subjectively tilted to the right on 'political' grounds.

Some of us actually want to see Australia and its everyday people actually prosper, not just Australia's richest people.   

Go and watch Gillards press meeting of this morning in its entirety and see what many other Australians are seeing .  Someone who seems logical, practical, intelligent and considerate.  She makes allowance for the fact that Community consensus is not behind either party on the Global Warming issue and at least intends to  INFORM the public of the science for and against and let us decide.

Good stuff. 

Title: Re: The ELECTION Thread
Post by: *smee* on July 24, 2010, 04:34:14 PM
Did Obama get any votes just coz he is black and it was the first black president ?

will Julia get any votes just coz she is a Woman and it will be first elected woman prime minister ?


Perhaps a few but I trust it would not be a big enough % to determine the outcome .... perhaps Abbott will get equally as many votes coz he is a man and some people just dont want a woman in the job ......

who really knows ???? would people admit that they voted purely on gender or colour ... not many would admit to that I wouldnt think
Title: Re: The ELECTION Thread
Post by: mandurahmum on July 24, 2010, 04:54:17 PM
Did Obama get any votes just coz he is black and it was the first black president ?

will Julia get any votes just coz she is a Woman and it will be first elected woman prime minister ?


Perhaps a few but I trust it would not be a big enough % to determine the outcome .... perhaps Abbott will get equally as many votes coz he is a man and some people just dont want a woman in the job ......

who really knows ???? would people admit that they voted purely on gender or colour ... not many would admit to that I wouldnt think

Obama got elected because he was black - and I hope he knows that.  He also got elected because of the 2 idiots they put him up against. 

I think Julia will also get votes because she is a female.

People are so disillusioned with Politicians that some (including me at times) dont really think it matters who is in power - they will both lie to us to get elected.

I do think the fact that Julia is not married may be important to some people, and the fact that she has no children.

Some may be put of Abbot because of his laugh - it drives me up the wall - sounds too evil.

But Mr Abott should not have said that About the Australian People - you should never insult the people who you are trying to get onside.  That was a Big Mistake.

My son gets to vote this election - his first ever - he hates both of them - he thinks no man should ever wear budgie smugglers in public and he says that he has had enough of women telling him what to do.  (yes in my family the women rule the roost and the men drink lol),

But its ok - I will tell him who to vote for
Title: Re: The ELECTION Thread
Post by: Rebel*1* on July 24, 2010, 04:57:31 PM
No, I doubt many would admit to it but then, I don't consider the Australian people to be that shallow.  I think what we all want is a considerate and intelligent approach to Govt.  Economic Responsibility yes, but with moral, environmental and social responsibility as well.   It shouldn't be a choice between one or the other. Both sides should be responsible in BOTH directions.

I think all the Aussie people are hoping for is that someone gets the balance right finally, and actually consults the Australian people on issues that are of such great National importance.  We all need a say in those issues including mining.  All we can do is hope.  

BTW, I was listening to Julie Bishop 'whine on' in the press conference that followed Abbotts speech and if it actually does come down to gender, then I'll ask other women on this forum what they think of Bishops style by comparison to Julia Gillard.  She too is nowhere near as intelligent or articulate as her female adversary in the 'gender' stakes.  

I wouldn't vote for Julie Bishop on a bet.  It's not about her gender, it's her total lack of intelligence that I notice.  She's snipey and a tad 'catty' by comparison.    I agree Smee, it doesn't come down to colour, gender or race.  It comes down to what they are offering to a now much more INTELLIGENT electorate.  We're getting smarter as voters.  I hope anyway.
Title: Re: The ELECTION Thread
Post by: mandurahmum on July 24, 2010, 05:16:53 PM
Now that is what is wrong with Politicians.  Whoever is in opposition seems to be in attack mode all the time. So instead of making intelligent answers - they go for the smart arse answer.  And that is what the deputies job seems to be.

it is a shame they cant work together to make this country stronger.

I also think they should be made to watch Question Time on the TV to see how badly they behave.  They are rude, they interrupt each other - and they show no respect towards their opposition.

We would not accept this from our children - so why should we accept it from the Adults that are running this country.  They should be trying to set an example on how to debate without the pettiness of name calling etc.


Title: Re: The ELECTION Thread
Post by: wyzeguy60 on July 24, 2010, 06:13:56 PM
" I hope Abbott is stupid enough to argue interest rates because that alone will be his undoing with those of us who remember the last few years of the Coalition Govt.  Highest interest rates ever.   They couldn't keep the interest rates down then and they won't be able to now.  Just more spin. "

ummmmm - I don't think so.

Under Keating was the highest by a frigging country mile - no contest. It was Howard who bought them down and quickly.

And on political matters I don't usually comment unless it is grossly misrepresented as above

 ;D

source here - http://www.loansense.com.au/historical-rates.html (http://www.loansense.com.au/historical-rates.html)
Title: Re: The ELECTION Thread
Post by: Rebel*1* on July 24, 2010, 07:18:23 PM
LOL, really? you might ask me why I make those comments first, because I was making them in a framework of Rich vs poor (minority vs majority) at the time Johnny was voted out (and in light of the role Abbott played in that Govt.).  Funny you should mention Keating Although I respect certain of his attributes, I don't respect all.    I looked into this recently because I was interested in how the previous Govt. robbed us blind of infrastructure whilst giving Australia's 'Rich' every concession.   

According to one source, " the enrichment of the privileged began in 1983 under the Hawke-Keating Labor government and accelerated under Howard’s Liberal-National Coalition from 1996". We can go into the whys and wherefores of their similar sentiments and leanings separately if you like.  Same outcome.

However, moving into more modern times, in 2006 (after more than 10 years of Johnny favouring the elite at our expense with every concession under the sun)  the BRW (Business Review Weekly) announced a 'record' 22% increase in the Net Wealth of Australia's 200 richest people  (that's 200 out of 22 million mind you), this was given as the reason that was happening by comparison to ever increasing interest rates and cost of living expenses facing average Aussies.

2006:
Many of the super-rich have benefited from the current “commodities boom”—soaring corporate profits generated by high prices for mining exports, especially to China, and the resulting speculative investments in stocks and shares on global markets.

Highly inflated property prices, whilst preventing many low-income earners from buying and imposing rising debts onto others, have also produced spectacular returns for major property developers and investors. No less than 58 of the 200 members of the Rich List gained their wealth via property.


In 2007 when Little Johnny and his idea of an 'elite' Australia declared us never more better off, (so stop whinging), Business Review Weekly announced another record year of profit for Australia's 'richest.  As follows:

2007 June:

In what has been billed as “a golden year” by the Business Review Weekly, members of Australia’s Rich 200 have boosted their total wealth by 26.7 percent to $128.6 billion in the past 12 months. This is the largest rise in the history of the survey and follows last year’s record-breaking 22 percent increase.

Riding high on their privilege, our resources, and the misfortune of average Aussies.

Meanwhile during the same period, this was the carnage to the average Aussie, and it's not exhaustive yet.   Statistics take a while to filter down to the average mortal.

2007 - The State of the Nation for average punters:

The same week BRW announced its Rich 200 list, Australia’s housing affordability index dropped to the lowest level in 23 years, the fourth consecutive quarterly decline. The March quarter figures revealed that monthly loan repayments on a typical first-home mortgage had risen by 1.5 per cent to an average $2,387 per month across Australia, and $3,000 per month in Sydney and Perth. Repayments accounted for 30.7 percent of an average first-home buyer’s income.

In addition, according to the Reserve Bank, Australian households now owe $160 for every $100 of disposable income, up from about $50 in the early 1990s, with families paying a record 12 percent of their disposable incomes on interest payments alone.

Credit card debt has also increased—by almost $5 billion to $39.5 billion, or nearly $2,000 per person in the 12 months to March. Bank customers are paying 21 percent more in penalty fees on credit cards, and the banks have raked in more than $1 billion—up 13 percent from last year’s $899 million.


Personal bankruptcies, moreover, are accelerating at twice the rate they were last year.
Insolvency and Trustee Service Australia chief Terry Gallagher told a recent Senate hearing on personal debt that bankruptcies grew 12.5 percent in the nine months to March, to about 30,000 a year. Fifteen years ago there were 13,000 a year.

The Senate was told that debt repayment agreements—with the countless parasitic finance companies offering customers the chance to pay back part of a debt rather than go bankrupt—jumped 32 percent in the nine months to March.

Figures from the Supreme courts of Victoria and NSW also indicate an increase in mortgage defaults and repossessions. NSW, for example, has experienced a 75 percent increase in repossessions in the past three years


That's not exhaustive and I'm happy to debate with you how Australian's were 'better off' under the Howard Govt, holistically speaking, anytime you wish.  We weren't.  The Rich were though.  That's now a matter of history and statistical fact.  As is the Average Aussies 'hardship' at the time. 

Nero fiddling while Rome burns?  What infrastructure ? What Aussies? Whose interests?  A Fair Go is just that.   Lest we forget.
Title: Re: The ELECTION Thread
Post by: shyer on July 24, 2010, 07:43:50 PM
Under Keating was the highest by a frigging country mile - no contest. It was Howard who bought them down and quickly And on political matters I don't usually comment unless it is grossly misrepresented as above source here - http://www.loansense.com.au/historical-rates.html (http://www.loansense.com.au/historical-rates.html)

 Hi Wyze guy ,

Never argue with [what I call] a commie / closet greenie , it is [in my experience] always blah blah blah  and not a logical neurone in their body to accept the truth.

It is like argueing with an idiot , they will drag you down to their level and beat you with experience every time.


[Moderation note: attack the argument without getting personal, guys.]
Title: Re: The ELECTION Thread
Post by: mandurahmum on July 24, 2010, 10:09:31 PM
Under Keating was the highest by a frigging country mile - no contest. It was Howard who bought them down and quickly And on political matters I don't usually comment unless it is grossly misrepresented as above source here - http://www.loansense.com.au/historical-rates.html (http://www.loansense.com.au/historical-rates.html)

 Hi Wyze guy ,

Never argue with a commie / closet greenie , it is always blah blah blah  and not a logical neurone in their body to accept the truth.

It is like argueing with an idiot , they will drag you down to their level and beat you with experience every time.

There is no need for name calling is there.
Title: Re: The ELECTION Thread
Post by: wyzeguy60 on July 24, 2010, 10:38:39 PM
Under Keating was the highest by a frigging country mile - no contest. It was Howard who bought them down and quickly And on political matters I don't usually comment unless it is grossly misrepresented as above source here - http://www.loansense.com.au/historical-rates.html (http://www.loansense.com.au/historical-rates.html)

 Hi Wyze guy ,

Never argue with a commie / closet greenie , it is always blah blah blah  and not a logical neurone in their body to accept the truth.

It is like argueing with an idiot , they will drag you down to their level and beat you with experience every time.

not arguing at all shyer - wink wink.
Cold hard facts about interest rates and a twisted socialist rhetoric as a response.
haha

" you might ask me why I make those comments first, because I was making them in a framework of Rich vs poor (minority vs majority) at the time Johnny was voted out (and in light of the role Abbott played in that Govt.) "

WTF - how does that adress 16.6 % under Keating V's 6.5% under Johnny ) BTW - I was a great fan of Johnny and many posters here were too - pity you can't see that when driving in your wooden stakes )

Anyway - no argument from me - I am a rich capitalist who doesn't part with my dough too easily - lol

 ;D
Title: Re: The ELECTION Thread
Post by: mandurahmum on July 24, 2010, 11:07:06 PM
You may wish to grab a sick bag

I had such a huge crush on Paul Keating.  I had just started my first job with Ernst and Whinney - chartered accountants - in a tax section.  I was probably influenced by a lot of the people there because most of them thought he was one of the best treasurers we had had.  I just thought he was sexy.

Sorry if that made you sick
Title: Re: The ELECTION Thread
Post by: wyzeguy60 on July 24, 2010, 11:16:02 PM
oh dear oh dear. a crush on Paul K.

Mum what were you thinking - lol

 ;D

(http://shop.packyourbags.com/acatalog/t_quezee_sick_bag.jpg)

Then again - I had a crush on Delvine Delaney all those years ago.

(http://www.smh.com.au/ffximage/2006/01/03/hair_wideweb__470x398.jpg)
Title: Re: The ELECTION Thread
Post by: mandurahmum on July 24, 2010, 11:23:45 PM
I was young and just thought men in suits were sexy.  Paul looked great in a suit - those expensive italian ones he wore.  Everyman looks hot in a well fitted suit.  I also thought he was so smart - I was always having to look up the words he used in a dictionary.  But mostly he made me want to study law and accounting as I wanted to be the first female treasurer. 

Thankfully I no longer want to be the treasurer - it would never have been a good thing for the country



Title: Re: The ELECTION Thread
Post by: shyer on July 25, 2010, 09:31:34 AM
I was sent this graph by someone tired of being abused for not holding left view points. It is on iterest rates and to any logical person shows one thing left wing goverments rasie rates. Labour elected rates go up.

There are many factors that determine rates and goverments of the day are only control some of those factors.

But the real big wide world is only interested in facts, and historically labour has spent not saved like liberals. Keating was an exeception, a Labour treaurer / PM who was fiscially responsiable.

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v702/brumbymg/OZRT/InterestRatesbyParty.jpg)
Title: Re: The ELECTION Thread
Post by: Rebel*1* on July 25, 2010, 11:21:38 AM
Morning mum, don't worry about Shyer, he obviously can't help it.  Name calling is the last bastion of a feeble mind in any debate.  Bit like Tony Abbott really.  As for twisted socialist rhetoric, all you do Wyzeguy is show your subjectivity and prejudice in that kind of statement.   Now jump up and down accusing me of being abusive, for responding to your 'rhetoric' without abuse.  Isn't that how the game works?

Those figures I posted on the State of the Nation at the time are historical fact, not rhetoric.  The comment I made about interest rates was relative to Tony Abbott's criticism of this Govt. pushing interest rates up, and his claim that he could reverse that.   In the context of the past 15 years, interest rates were at their peak when Johnny was telling us we were never better off.  That was the point, we weren't.  The Keating Era was a different time, equally arrogant I grant you, but not relevant to this election.

Even so, it does highlight that on some issues,  there is no difference who you vote for, whether right, left or indifferent.

For instance, It might not surprise some to know that after Howard's GST dreams were thwarted in the 70's, it was Keating who put forward a consumption tax unsuccessfully, and which saw little Johnny utter the lie of all lies, that 'Australia will Never Have a GST'.  By his next term, we had a GST.   

In reality, BOTH sides of Govt wanted it, and it was therefore inevitable.   Wouldn't have mattered who we voted for.  A GST was going to happen anyway sooner or later, whether implemented by Liberal or Labour.   Has it achieved any of the amazing things it was going to achieve?  Are things cheaper?  Is the Infrastructure being rebuilt and upgraded as a result of it?  Not that I've seen.

The same can be said for the intentions of both sides of Govt when it comes to mining.  Neither intend it seems, to prosecute the case of the Australian people for sustainable & responsible mining and fair remuneration.  At least the ALP is attempting to negotiate a more reasonable return, but they're not exactly impressive with their backdown.    Only the Greens seem to be highlighting these issues, and they're the only ones criticising Abbott and Gillard on our behalf for fair remuneration.

If you care to listen to the commentary on this particular issue, Brown has pointed out that Abbott wants to scrap any increased tax whatsoever against the Mining Companies and let them continue enjoying concessions at the expense of our infrastructure.   Meanwhile, in the interim, the ALP have thrown open the flood gate and made it a mining free for all as far as access is concerned.   I don't agree with either approach, but I certainly believe that if these parasites get access they should pay the Australian people a FAIR return, and much more than a piddly dollar in seven. 

Ironically, in context with the previous criticism highlighted, the record increase in Net Wealth for the 'minority' of Rich Australians in 2006-07, was largely achieved on the back of the commodities boom, while we (The Australian People) were being short sheeted at $1.00 in $7.00?.  Does it not dawn on anyone that our infrastructure was the biggest victim in that little sweetheart deal as well?  So exactly when will 'Infrastructure funding' be addressed as an election issue in this country?  When everything stops working? 

I'd prefer not to see a return to the imbalance of 2006-07 where the Rich were never richer and the rest of us were going out backwards.  Balance is what I'm in support of.  Not extremes.
Title: Re: The ELECTION Thread
Post by: Rebel*1* on July 25, 2010, 11:24:19 AM
BTW  MUM, really good news.  I was watching Bob Brown this morning (you know, that other Bleeding Heart Leftist Loonie socialist), and he's heading for WA today to commence negotiations to declare the Waters off Margaret River a MARINE RESERVE. Hooray. 

At least one Pollie is trying to do something mate.  If it's protected as a Marine Reserve, it can't be mined quite so easily.  Smart move.    I've only just heard of it, so can't tell you much, but if I were you I'd be emailing the Greens and asking them to hold some kind of public meeting for the community over there.  Maybe even find out where he's going to be this morning and whether it's public.

I know, I know, you run the risk of being a labeled a leftist commie bleeding heart just for giving a shite about protecting your backyard from those Wonderful mining companies, but hey, you can't be everything to everyone.  I'll see what I can find out for you.  Maybe the Waussie locals can get behind that campaign instead of trying to reinvent the wheel. 


Title: Re: The ELECTION Thread
Post by: mandurahmum on July 25, 2010, 07:42:34 PM
That is good news about Bob Brown - I hope he can do it.  I have also heard from Don Randall - and he tells me the minister for Forrest is also heavily involved in trying to stop this.  Thye visited the area on July 1 to talk to the community.  He is going to send me the letter that was sent to the community down there and a couple of petitions to pass around. 

He is also going to try and find out more info about Barrow Island and the breaches that Chevron has committed  - 60 breaches in 10 months.  No wonder so many were opposed to this.  It also shows that our State Government and Federal government are not enforcing their own rules and regulations.

http://www.perthnow.com.au/news/western-australia/chevrons-barrow-island-project-leads-to-alleged-environment-breaches/story-e6frg13u-1225874707056 (http://www.perthnow.com.au/news/western-australia/chevrons-barrow-island-project-leads-to-alleged-environment-breaches/story-e6frg13u-1225874707056)

This project should never have been allowed to go ahead.

Title: Re: The ELECTION Thread
Post by: *smee* on July 25, 2010, 07:54:16 PM
declaring it a marine reserve is not good for some people either , whilst it would stop the mining it would possibly upset equally as many people as it would also stop recreational fishing ...which is one reason why a lot of people have invested in the area in the first place so that they can fish ....

if they disallowed fishing at Margaret River it could have disasterous economic repurcussions, tourists go there to swim ,surf ,fish ,and do the wineries ....so I would imagine it would have some effect ....

 


Title: Re: The ELECTION Thread
Post by: Roo on July 25, 2010, 08:22:35 PM
And just on a lighter note....

A fake Julia Twitter account has a few comments worth a giggle.....

http://twitter.com/PM_JuliaGillard

Such gems as...

Getting ready for a mass debate with Tony Abbott. If only people knew we'd been mass debating together for years

OR....

Ok the gays can't marry but soon I'll stop all marriage just to be fair. If I don't want it why should anyone else
Title: Re: The ELECTION Thread
Post by: mandurahmum on July 25, 2010, 08:26:05 PM
Your right smee - there has to be a balance.  Margaret River does depend on tourism and the coast is a big part of that.  Fishing, snorkelling etc must be allowed to continue.  We have strict fishing quotas as it is,

We want everyone to be able to appreciate the natural beauty of this paradise.
Title: Re: The ELECTION Thread
Post by: mandurahmum on July 25, 2010, 08:26:39 PM
And just on a lighter note....

A fake Julia Twitter account has a few comments worth a giggle.....

http://twitter.com/PM_JuliaGillard

Such gems as...

Getting ready for a mass debate with Tony Abbott. If only people knew we'd been mass debating together for years

OR....

Ok the gays can't marry but soon I'll stop all marriage just to be fair. If I don't want it why should anyone else


lol
Title: Re: The ELECTION Thread
Post by: Roo on July 25, 2010, 08:45:20 PM
Hey Mum...I actually met Paul Keating when he was PM and attended my workplace for a function.

He was a striking man.....much more charming in person than what we saw in the media.

His then wife, Anita, was even more stunning!

I had a chat with her in the ladies loos...and she was totally gorgeous!
Title: Re: The ELECTION Thread
Post by: wyzeguy60 on July 25, 2010, 09:11:46 PM
here is a little story that will hopefully make you laugh.

It was November 1991 and I was at Young and Jacksons early in the morning having half a dozen ( or 20 ) before the Melbourne Cup.

Anyways about 9.00 O'clock I went to the loo downstairs. I was Missed as a Paggett by then and was saying in my almost perfect Bob Hawke impression the following words at the top of my voice.

" by 1990 no Australian child will be living in poverty. ".

Just then a softish voice spoke out of one of the cubicles. Is, Is that you Bob ? - what are you doing here.

I said as quick as a flash in full impression voice - nah mate. I'm alright. I'm getting Pi%%ed and going to the Melbourne Cup.

I quickly left and have always wondered what that poor guy must have thought.

 ;D
Title: Re: The ELECTION Thread
Post by: *r3830* on July 25, 2010, 09:20:30 PM

Gillard ushers in the era of farce



http://www.heraldsun.com.au/opinion/gillard-ushers-in-the-era-of-farce/story-e6frfhqf-1225896276726 (http://www.heraldsun.com.au/opinion/gillard-ushers-in-the-era-of-farce/story-e6frfhqf-1225896276726)
Title: Re: The ELECTION Thread
Post by: Roo on July 25, 2010, 10:08:00 PM
I like Laurie Oakes...he says it like it is.

But I really have no idea which way I should vote....because I don't really like either of the two leaders...***sigh

I think the best way to go, will be to vote for the local member that instills confidence in me and has my best interests at heart.

It won't matter who their leader is......but at least I will be able to hope that they actually come good on their promises.
Title: Re: The ELECTION Thread
Post by: mandurahmum on July 25, 2010, 10:55:30 PM
I would hate either Julia or tony being my local member - they are so focused on the top job that they seem to have forgotten that before they get that job they have to win their seat.  I would not want my mp in the top seat - I dont think they can represent their electorate properly

I actually find it funny that tony is running against Austen Tayshus from the sex party. 
Title: Re: The ELECTION Thread
Post by: Roo on July 25, 2010, 11:08:20 PM
I'd vote for Austen!..lol...at least he has a sense of humour..lol

But I'm just watching Tony and Julia, head to head, on Channel 10.

I'm leaning towards Julia at the moment....because Tony is playing up the fact he has kids and that it would make him the better PM.

That would be ok...but he kinda made you feel like he thinks she is a lesser person for not having kids?

I like Julia a bit more than Tony...she has some good ideas and isn't doing the personal insults.
Title: Re: The ELECTION Thread
Post by: emptyheadted on July 25, 2010, 11:19:46 PM
I was sent this graph by someone tired of being abused for not holding left view points. It is on iterest rates and to any logical person shows one thing left wing goverments rasie rates. Labour elected rates go up.

There are many factors that determine rates and goverments of the day are only control some of those factors.

But the real big wide world is only interested in facts, and historically labour has spent not saved like liberals. Keating was an exeception, a Labour treaurer / PM who was fiscially responsiable.

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v702/brumbymg/OZRT/InterestRatesbyParty.jpg)

We need higher rates, low rates just increases peoples dept and not worth saving money as rates are so low, then with everyone borrowing heaps of money at a low interest  drives up housing prices and everything else then once rates start to go up housing market bubble bursts, rates need to be around 10% so people save and borrow less or our housing market will end up like america
Title: Re: The ELECTION Thread
Post by: *r3830* on July 25, 2010, 11:20:36 PM
Just one concern Roo..... as someone mentioned, behind the figureheads are the same parties and policies that were there twelve months ago. Labor says that if they get in - we cop an ETS... on awfully flimsy evidence. Julia says she wants to support families.... with an increase of 64% in electricity costs due to a flawed carbon tax? Support..... or send everyone to the wall? She says no more dirty power stations - Nuclear energy isn't on the table - so the costs will undoubtedly rise with higher needs won't they? But then - it's the same party that wants to censor the life of every Australian..... well, not immediately, but after the election, (if they win) while claiming to have a mandate from the people to go ahead with these things.

Abbott on the other hand has been very quiet. Probably the best thing the Libs could do at the moment. But, the skeptic questions just what they may have in mind for us post election.

Too early to call at the moment.... but I'll be watching closely, with interest.
Title: Re: The ELECTION Thread
Post by: Roo on July 25, 2010, 11:40:21 PM
Just one concern Roo..... as someone mentioned, behind the figureheads are the same parties and policies that were there twelve months ago. Labor says that if they get in - we cop an ETS... on awfully flimsy evidence. Julia says she wants to support families.... with an increase of 64% in electricity costs due to a flawed carbon tax? Support..... or send everyone to the wall? She says no more dirty power stations - Nuclear energy isn't on the table - so the costs will undoubtedly rise with higher needs won't they? But then - it's the same party that wants to censor the life of every Australian..... well, not immediately, but after the election, (if they win) while claiming to have a mandate from the people to go ahead with these things.

Abbott on the other hand has been very quiet. Probably the best thing the Libs could do at the moment. But, the skeptic questions just what they may have in mind for us post election.

Too early to call at the moment.... but I'll be watching closely, with interest.

There are a lot of concerns Loco...but I actually support the need for an ETS.

I was reading recently on CS on Ebay...and actually was dumbfounded at how some of the posters almost saw it as a feather in their cap as to how much power they used through the day! They refused to even entertain the fact that they needed to make changes and at least make slight lifestyle changes for the betterment of the whole Country.

ETS will affect big businesses first...and they will have to make drastic changes to the way they conduct business today.  That's not a bad thing.

And if the rest of the population follows suit....it can only be good.

I just think that we, as the people of this Country, have taken for granted how good we have had it....and maybe it's time to think ahead and make changes to the way we use our resources.
Title: Re: The ELECTION Thread
Post by: mandurahmum on July 26, 2010, 01:11:31 AM
I think we need a ets just so that those that are polluting our environment will try and lower their emmisions.

As for electricity - we also need to go greener and renewable.  Over here we get a lot of sun - but probably less than a third have solar panels - more are getting them though.  Why dont our schools have them?  A lot of businesses could have solar panels on their roofs - and we need to be encouraging that.

Wind Power - why cant we use more of this - Over here in the west - we still have plenty of big spaces over here that could be utilised.

Wave Power -they are doing this off the coast of Fremantle at the moment and at other places around the country - its still fairly new but very interesting and perfect for us.  We have an awful lot of coastline in Australia too.

I have seen some amazing things that Aussies have invented - and by the average Aussie - and especially in this field of electricity generation. 

We need to be encouraging these 'inventors' because they are the ones that are thinking of the cure and not just the problem.

The majority of people in this city have 4 wheel drives - good for towing a boat or caravan - and we have a lot of them.  And thats fine with me - but there are also a lot of them that never tow a thing - never get dirty - and quite frankly are a real pain in my butt.  I have a small sukuzi cino - and where ever I park - I get 2 next to me.  Great - I have to reverse all the way out because I cant see over them.  And they stink - I dont know much about Diesel - but in summer these town reeks of it.


I might also add that I dont think the insulation policy was a complete failure.  It created a lot of jobs whilst it was going.  A lot of us also scored free insultation - I did - My landlord got all 6 of his properties done.  I am actually using less electricity because of it.

Title: Re: The ELECTION Thread
Post by: Liisa-Sx on July 26, 2010, 01:48:23 AM
I think we need a ets just so that those that are polluting our environment will try and lower their emmisions.

Sadly most won't even try..

The larger polluting businesses will merely "buy" or "trade" their carbon credits from low users and continue to pollute as they have always done.

Emissions trading, as set out in Article 17 of the Kyoto Protocol, allows countries that have emission units to spare - emissions permitted them but not "used" - to sell this excess capacity to countries that are over their targets.

Thus, a new commodity was created in the form of emission reductions or removals. Since carbon dioxide is the principal greenhouse gas, people speak simply of trading in carbon. Carbon is now tracked and traded like any other commodity. This is known as the "carbon market."

Those that have to pay more for "credits' no doubt pass those costs onto the public while at the same time continuing to pollute as they have always done.

The main greenhouse gases in the Earth's atmosphere are water vapor, carbon dioxide, methane, nitrous oxide, and ozone.

The main player that governments like to spin with in greenhouse gas emissions is carbon dioxide, however once again the largest contributer to greenhouse gasses is Water vapour 36-72% as opposed to CO2 at 9 – 26 %, but you rarely hear the spin speak of water vapour nor methane or Ozone. (not scary sounding enough lol)

The contribution to the greenhouse effect by a gas is affected by both the characteristics of the gas and its abundance. For example, on a molecule-for-molecule basis methane is about eighty times stronger greenhouse gas than carbon dioxide, but it is present in much smaller concentrations so that its total contribution is smaller. When these gases are ranked by their contribution to the greenhouse effect, the most important are:

Water Vapor    H2O     36 – 72 %  
Carbon Dioxide    CO2     9 – 26 %
Methane    CH4     4 – 9 %  
Ozone    O3     3 – 7 %  

In order, Earth's most abundant greenhouse gases are:

    * water vapor
    * carbon dioxide
    * atmospheric methane
    * nitrous oxide
    * ozone
    * chlorofluorocarbons

A lot of greenhouse gasses are naturally occuring.

I am ALL for less pollutants and finding alternatives, (which we have but "deemed" too expensive lol, but not via a seriously biased, ill informed and researched flawed tax designed predominantly to put more money in government coffers NOT out of any real political desire to reduce emissions.






Title: Re: The ELECTION Thread
Post by: HellWest'nCrooked on July 26, 2010, 08:29:00 AM
I am ALL for less pollutants and finding alternatives, (which we have but "deemed" too expensive lol, but not via a seriously biased, ill informed and researched flawed tax designed predominantly to put more money in government coffers NOT out of any real political desire to reduce emissions.


You have said it all Liisa...........

If we were to have a ETS..  it will not effect the big players one iota...as previously mentioned.
Title: Re: The ELECTION Thread
Post by: bnwt on July 26, 2010, 12:32:56 PM
Swan confirms $100m-a-day debt figure

Federal Treasurer Wayne Swan has conceded the Opposition is correct when it claims Labor is borrowing $100 million a day to pay back Government debt.

http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2010/07/26/2964184.htm
Title: Re: The ELECTION Thread
Post by: shyer on July 26, 2010, 01:14:31 PM
I do not think it will matters who wins it will be so tight neither will have a workable majority and will need independants in lower house and senete.

Gillard is not who you are voting for I have see all the labour leadership changes for 40 years. Gillard only has left support the labour party will dump her the second it is convient.

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/national-affairs/despite-the-gloss-julia-gillard-is-just-another-phoney/story-fn59niix-1225896765834 (http://www.theaustralian.com.au/national-affairs/despite-the-gloss-julia-gillard-is-just-another-phoney/story-fn59niix-1225896765834)

What you do DO NOT vote labour for the senate usless you number all the squares . Otherwise the balance way be held by the greens . Only 10% of the misguided wants them the other 90% of us realists DO NOT and see the true green lies. Yet they may control the senate.
Title: Re: The ELECTION Thread
Post by: Rebel*1* on July 26, 2010, 04:36:16 PM
Jeese and it was getting so productive.  Shyer, do you understand the concept of all views being represented in any democracy?  I don't vote Green, but I do give my preferences to them when it comes to things like Cleaner Power/resource options, and keeping fair mining remuneration and 'free for all' access on the table.  

In all their other faults, No other party is addressing those issues, and green, yellow, purple or orange, they deserve to be put on the table.  I will therefore give the Greens consideration simply on those issues alone to keep them on the table in the senate, even after the election dust has settled.  Anyone who cares about those issues, should give the greens their second preference so the other two parties don't bury the obvious.

The Greens are a legitimate party with alternative views.  They therefore provide a balance when the other two major parties are avoiding the real issues with mining in particular.  

Before the names fly, I reiterate.  I'm not against mining, I'm for sustainable mining and FAIR remuneration to the Australian people via infrastructure upgrade at the very least.   It's a matter of give and take, not just all take.  

On an earlier issue:

if they disallowed fishing at Margaret River it could have disasterous economic repurcussions, tourists go there to swim ,surf ,fish ,and do the wineries ....so I would imagine it would have some effect ....

Yes it would Smee, (I spent quite a while there in the early 80's, magnificent place) but an oil spill would be equally disastrous.  So the balance would be to declare it protected from mining specifically, not fishing or tourism.  That's the threat after all isn't it ? to the environment and the current economy there?  Fishing and tourism has never been an issue for the Waussies in that region so far, has it MM?  How many tourists want to see an oil rig off shore?

So, Brown will no doubt be expected and amenable to consulting with stake holders.  Locals should be emailing him non stop to make sure all views are represented though, not just political ones.  

At the end of the day, if he has any influence to stop it, Waussies need to lobby him to use that influence wisely and in league with local elected officials, the community and Chamber of Commerce.

Keep lobbying your local Fed member and State member as no doubt Brown will be consulting them first, and they'll be the ones ensuring the local economy stays intact.   Get involved as much as possible is what I'm saying, and encourage other locals to do the same.  

LOCO - I agree, far too much of this 'mandate' either way is hinging on insufficient 'justification' for or against.   I'm not arguing the science.  I do believe we have a global issue, (more likely associated with a Worldwide population now more than four times that of 60-70 years ago) but is the only option to impose an ETS?  

What are the other options?  The 'Greens' don't find this question too hard.  It's  Cleaner resources !!  Here's a novel Idea.  Let's charge the mining company for all that back remuneration they owe the Australian People (Before we were remunerated less than half as much) and invest that into 'clean technology and resources.  Wind Power, Storm Water Recycling.  The return of the humble water tank (without costing us a fortune), Desalination plants, Assistance in improving Solar storage and that technology etc.  I'm sure there are many more ways to produce power and preserve resources more cleanly.    Hey, why not just charge the Mining companies more than $1.00 in $7.00 even now, and we can invest that into developing cleaner power.  ????

In fact, it just occurred to me.  If we went Clean and Green, Would that upset the mining companies and their 'black gold' deposits?  Hey, then there's coal.  Would the Mining companies suffer if we go green?  How about Uranium?  Do the mining companies have other 'unsustainable' resource options yet to foister upon on us before we go Green and Clean?  Could this procrastination be associated once again with 'overly powerful' economic interests overshadowing common sense?

Could this be the reason the decision makers don't seem to move on this option in any expedient fashion?  We haven't used up the polluting alternatives first?  I don't know, I'm asking others.

If that be the case, and it does in fact pose a threat to economy, then why are our scientists not working on making emissions of these existing exploitable pollutants (except Uranium) i.e. coal and oil cleaner? filtered? something?.  Just asking
Title: Re: The ELECTION Thread
Post by: mandurahmum on July 26, 2010, 06:37:43 PM
I have just rec'd some info that I thought I might share on the Proposed oil rig off Margaret River.

31 regions were released for exploration in May 2010 - 30 were released at the request of industry and one - the Margaret River one was not requested by industry - but was released on the recommendation of the Government body AGSO. 

We are also still waiting for the report on the Montara oil spill that happened in 2009 that occured in the timor sea.  That spill went on for over 10 weeks.

Also it looks like the drilling off Margaret River could be 2000 metres - 500 metres more than the one off the gulf of mexico that took over 3 months too plug.

Have we not learnt that if we cant guarantee that we can repair a leak at 1500 metres - then what hope do we have at 2000 metres.

Title: Re: The ELECTION Thread
Post by: Rebel*1* on July 26, 2010, 06:55:16 PM
MM, I don't think people on the East Coast can even imagine the vast difference in the West Coast by comparison unless they've actually been there for long enough to grasp that.  The Ocean there is deep, formidable and big, not many cove beaches etc.  The elements and nature alone would make any oil rig more risky.  How many have actually seen the WA coastline?  Those who haven't, it ISN'T like the east coast.  Nature rules over there and safe harbours are few and far between.   Yanchep had break walls back then, and the trees in Geraldton all leaned eastward.  LOL,   Or has it changed in 25 years?

Are the forests still there in the south mum i.e. Kauri and Jarrah?  

One big difference I noticed when I lived there.  I always hated the taste of many fish species on this coast, so never really bothered to go fishing.  But in WA, coastal areas, it's a way of life, and the Whiting off Perth, and Black Bream (yum) around Denmark is so clean and beautiful, I lived on fish for 12 months in my Southern WA travels in those days.   It's really clean tasting, not sure why that is.   

When I lived there, we would all pay into 30.00 as flatmates, to fuel the boat and pay for beer & bait, and we'd all go fishing.  We'd literally bring in a garbage tin worth of whiting, and my flatmate 'A salty WA seadog' would pull up on one of the many little islands where seals sun themselves, and he'd gut and clean the fish.  No guessing who ate the offcuts.  lol.   We then went home and crumbed/froze a freezer load of fish.  That was in the early/mid 80's.  Different lifestyle on the WA coast altogether.  You could live off one fishing excursion for a month.  Great times.  I hope that hasn't changed.  And who'd want it to.  Ah, Sunday afternoon sessions at WA pubs.  *chuckle*.  mum, you might explain what they are or were.  LOL   They were fun. Does that still exist?  Bit like declaring half time and then blowing the siren when play resumes.  lol.  On Sundays specifically.
Title: Re: The ELECTION Thread
Post by: mandurahmum on July 26, 2010, 07:36:59 PM
You are right - our coastline is very different over here than the east coast.  Apart from the fact that we have so much of it - and the majority of us live on the coast.

The forrests are still there - a little smaller but we know appreciate them much better   Tourists are now encouraged to use the tree walks to protect the forrests undergrowth - its a bit scary for me - but others have loved it.

We also have Ningaloo - Australias largest coral reef - which is still pristine and in a lot better shape than the barrier reef.

We have an abundant of sea life over here - whale sharks and other whales use some of our waters to calf, because it is safe. 

lets not forget the Kimberley coast - amazing and virtually untouched in lots of places.  Including a horizontal waterfall - you dont see that many places.

Margaret River and the surrounding area are full of some of the best surf beaches in the world - and it attracts surfers from all over the world for the Margaret River Pro and the classic.

But not only that it is also a great wine growing country and is known for its food, including delicious chocolate.  It also has some amazing caves and the towering forrests.  Its just a perfect place to visit.


I do think we appreciate what a wonderful place WA is - but I dont think others can unless they visit it.  People think Bondi is a great beach - come and see Cable Beach  - they dont compare.  Think the great barrier reef is great - come and see Ningaloo - its probably like what the great barrier reef used to look like.  WA is huge - with a huge coastline - we just want to protect it so that generations after us can enjoy the same things we do.






Title: Re: The ELECTION Thread
Post by: Rebel*1* on July 26, 2010, 07:57:23 PM
Mum, you bet, my partner is a surfer, and I just asked him,. and he thinks WA has some of the best surf breaks in the world.  Bondi vs Cable beach?  Dreamin.   He thinks also that mining would be criminal.    Margaret River and Cable beach in particular  lol.  Waxhead.  !!!  Sharkbait I call him.  I ain't getting out of a boat anywhere.  LOL.


lets not forget the Kimberley coast - amazing and virtually untouched in lots of places.  Including a horizontal waterfall - you dont see that many places.

Are we talking the same region where the wobbegongs live?    I spent two years in the Great North West, and it's breathtaking.  Again, you just have to go there to understand what I mean.  Nothing like the East Coast, though don't get me wrong.  Our turf is equally breathtaking in different ways.

Title: Re: The ELECTION Thread
Post by: emptyheadted on July 26, 2010, 10:02:48 PM
The ETS is just another tax put onto the people, does nothing for the environment .. Just robbing my money off of me once again. nothing wrong with carbon , alot of green houses add carbon as plants love it and grow faster, if you want to worry about a gas look at methane. The climate has been changing since the world started to spin, i lived in the highest town in WA and all around the place there are fossils of sea animals and shells, lets also look at the ice man and wollie manmoth that was found 50m under ice, how did they get 50m under ice mmm  maybe we are coming out of another ice age, we cant change the earth temp but we can prepare for it like stop water front development. As for nuclear power we want to keep away from that. uranium has tripled in price in the last few years and is only going to keep going up as india and china are building 50 more  nuclear power stations and people seem to forget the cost of storing the waste safely FOREVER.We need to invest in green energy like solar and wind and tidal but in the mean time nothing wrong with coal, Just we all know the climate is changing and the government is happy to give us another tax that wont do a thing as its more to do with the tilt of the earth axes , not much we can do about that.
Title: Re: The ELECTION Thread
Post by: bnwt on July 26, 2010, 10:23:03 PM
emrtyheadted


well said

the earth's climate is always changing ....... there will always be winners and losers

in fact if it wasn't for climate change we wouldn't be here
Title: Re: The ELECTION Thread
Post by: mandurahmum on July 27, 2010, 12:33:09 AM
Ted - we are so on the same wave length - I have said exactly what you said before.

We have never wanted uranium mined in WA, yet that does not make us anti-mining.

You are probably right about the ets too.  And Lisa is probably also right that the ets will not help cut pollution.  But we do need to start to try and cut down on all forms of pollution.  I would like to think an ets would help - but thats the idealistic side of me.

As a Waussie - may I ask how you feel about the proposed oil drilling off Margaret River and the Kimberley?
Title: Re: The ELECTION Thread
Post by: mandurahmum on July 27, 2010, 12:38:30 AM
Rebel - I think you mean the dugongs - they calve around shark bay area.  They are so ugly - but i suppose we need to protect all animals not just the cute only.

Title: Re: The ELECTION Thread
Post by: bnwt on July 27, 2010, 10:50:57 AM
Prime Minister Julia Gillard joins Alan to discuss the economy, the mining tax, and the pressing issues of the election campaign.


http://www.2gb.com/index2.php?option=com_newsmanager&task=view&id=6672

she says, "there are some Australians, out there who want to have their say"

correct Julia and they will say it's time for you to move forward to an early retirement
Title: Re: The ELECTION Thread
Post by: Rebel*1* on July 27, 2010, 02:29:16 PM
Rebel - I think you mean the dugongs - they calve around shark bay area.  They are so ugly - but i suppose we need to protect all animals not just the cute only.

LOL, I knew it was something like that.  They're really goofy looking creatures, and very cute I think, not ugly lol. 

As for ETS, that's what I'm asking, is that the ONLY answer?  Seems to me there are plenty more options to consider, and we're being told there's only one.  That's the bit I get skeptical and annoyed with, in addition to the predatory conduct that accompanies 'global warming' like it's an advertising slogan.

Here's an article on the 64% electricity increase in NSW alone, (due to decades of infrastructure neglect) and on merely the proposition of an ETS, or CPRS.    It hasn't even been introduced or agreed to yet and we're all getting stitched for 64% more on 'what ifs'?  As for Infrastructure costs, well, there it is again isn't it?.  And it's the same Nation Wide.  The mining Tax would assist in paying for the upgrade of the electricity Grid and other major infrastructure upgrades like Telecommunications etc, but of course, Tony doesn't want to make his mining buddies pay more than they're already paying.  So I'm guessing he expects the Australian people to foot the bill?

At the end of the day, BOTH parties need to come up with a policy for 'fair' remuneration of our resources from the mining companies, and, in the use or refinement of those resources, Electricity companies and Steel mills and the like along with other major polluters, need to develop technology to reduce their carbon emissions.   Wouldn't that be more productive and pain free for the average Aussie?

http://news.ninemsn.com.au/national/1028811/electricity-prices-to-rise-by-up-to-64

Electricity bills in NSW will soar by up to a total of 64 per cent over the next three years, with the federal government's proposed carbon pollution reduction scheme (CPRS) and rising network infrastructure costs largely to blame.

The outcome has sparked fears other states and territories could be similarly affected if the CPRS goes ahead in 20011/12 as planned


This sentence almost made me spit my coffee all over the screen lol.

The government would also legislate for an energy price comparison website, so consumers could get "the best deal possible for their energy", Mr Robertson said.

Won't that be illuminating when it comes to monopolistic price fixing eh? 
Title: Re: The ELECTION Thread
Post by: *smee* on July 27, 2010, 02:36:17 PM
it already is in WA , no choice there , only one electricity supplier except for mining towns owned by BHP and then BHP supply it at jacked up prices
Title: Re: The ELECTION Thread
Post by: *smee* on July 27, 2010, 03:44:18 PM
here we go with the gender thingo .....and the defacto ....and just to be on the safe side Julia has said she will consider marriage http://www.heraldsun.com.au/news/special-reports/julie-bishop-brands-pm-julia-gillard-a-left-wing-feminist/story-fn5idf17-1225897222816?referrer=email&source=HS_email_nl&emcmp=HS&emchn=Newsletter&emlist=Member

Oh and this one line probably cost her Ubbies vote

"Ms Gillard said Mr Mathieson had been playing a supportive role behind the scenes and checking on her daily to see if she’s eating her vegies"
Title: Re: The ELECTION Thread
Post by: mandurahmum on July 27, 2010, 03:58:50 PM
Our electricity prices over here have also skyrocketed.   I consider myself pretty good at not wasting electricty and normally my bill is no more than 130 for 60 days.  The one I got  a fortnight ago was $266 and my usage has only gone up slightyly - the rest is because of the increases.

My grandmothers last bill also went up by $60 - she is on an old age pension - she is so stressed about how she is going to pay this.  The family of course will help - but she does not like having to do that.  My grandfather worked hard to make sure that he had enough money for them both to retire comfortably - but unfortunately he developed Altzeimers and most of that money was spent on his treatment and care.  They both fought in the war for this country - and both nearly died doing it - my grandmother was in Darwin when it was bombed and my grandfather was shot in New Guinea.

Yet neither party has mentioned how much the pension would raise under them.  Dont get me wrong the last 2 pay rates from the Labor government really helped - but then the state governments took it with the rise in electricity and other fees.

Smee is right - over here we have no choice who we get our electricity from - and with no competition are prices will continue to rise at ridiculous prices.



Title: Re: The ELECTION Thread
Post by: mandurahmum on July 27, 2010, 04:00:45 PM
OMG a Prime Ministerial wedding  - how exciting - I wonder if it will be broadcast live on all channels and then repeating ad nausem.
Title: Re: The ELECTION Thread
Post by: *smee* on July 27, 2010, 04:06:53 PM
crikey MM ...as long as they dont televise the honeymoon ..... Urrrgggggggggghhhhhhhhhh
Nasty pictures !!
Title: Re: The ELECTION Thread
Post by: mandurahmum on July 27, 2010, 04:10:28 PM
maybe they will demonstrate some shackles for you smee
Title: Re: The ELECTION Thread
Post by: Rebel*1* on July 27, 2010, 04:34:25 PM
Well lucky for Julia she isn't a girl batting for her own team cause that would cause a veritable stroke for some conservative types.   Dare I say the word?  Lesbian?  lmao.    Just imagine the uproar.  Defacto status with a bloke is hard enough for some to simply mind their own business over.

Are we getting less intelligent in the 21st century ?    Does anyone recall just a few years ago, a female MP was kicked out of Parliament for breast feeding?  Like haven't we gotten over that kind of stupidity yet?   What was that about? 'breast envy'? What if Julia Gillard were a single woman?. Or an unmarried Mother?  Heaven forbid, would we need to have a 'find Julia a Husband' Campaign and a shotgun wedding?  lol.

I'm having a good giggle over it.
Title: Re: The ELECTION Thread
Post by: *smee* on July 27, 2010, 04:40:27 PM
well Im pretty sure that Im a lesbian ...does that mean I cant be PM ?
Title: Re: The ELECTION Thread
Post by: *r3830* on July 27, 2010, 04:43:05 PM
The government would also legislate for an energy price comparison website, so consumers could get "the best deal possible for their energy", Mr Robertson said.

Won't that be illuminating when it comes to monopolistic price fixing eh? 



Look at that! The old grocery watch website has finally found a use! Now that's recycling for ya!
Title: Re: The ELECTION Thread
Post by: Rebel*1* on July 27, 2010, 04:48:03 PM
LOL @ loco, and Smee, only if you're prepared to wear a 'frock'.  LOL.
Title: Re: The ELECTION Thread
Post by: mandurahmum on July 27, 2010, 05:46:47 PM
Now see I think that the breastfeeding was a stunt.  That lady knew the rules - but choose to broke them.  She knew she would be asked to leave - it had happened before with Kristie Marshall.  IMO she should have excused herself if she needed to feed her child, or done what most of us working mothers do - express milk beforehand so that the baby can be feed.

Breast feeding may be natural and wonderful - but that does not mean you can break the rules - you can fight to get them changed - and that is what she should have done.

I for one would not like to see female teachers breastfeeding in schools - because I know my son would not learn anything - he would be watching her boobs - because that is what teenage boys do.

I like a lot of mothers breastfeed my child - it was my choice - it was also my choice to work part time - so I made arrangements beforehand so that whilst I was being paid to work - I was working.

I also think that paid maternity leave whilst good in principal may also discourage employers from hiring young women - because if they get pregnant - they will have to hold that job open whilst they are on maternity leave, and pay the maternity allowance.

I am sorry if we choose to have children - why is it that the employers are the ones that are disadvantaged.
















Title: Re: The ELECTION Thread
Post by: *smee* on July 27, 2010, 06:02:42 PM
yes breast feeding is a natural and wonderful thing .... so is copulation
and one could reasonably expect to be removed from the house of reps upon commencement of said natural act

in both instances its not the act thats wrong , just the time and place that it was being carried out
Title: Re: The ELECTION Thread
Post by: mandurahmum on July 27, 2010, 06:29:33 PM
yes breast feeding is a natural and wonderful thing .... so is copulation
and one could reasonably expect to be removed from the house of reps upon commencement of said natural act

in both instances its not the act thats wrong , just the time and place that it was being carried out

I agree. 

Title: Re: The ELECTION Thread
Post by: mandurahmum on July 27, 2010, 06:36:58 PM
http://au.news.yahoo.com/thewest/a/-/newshome/7653559/abbott-promises-drastic-fisheries-overhaul/ (http://au.news.yahoo.com/thewest/a/-/newshome/7653559/abbott-promises-drastic-fisheries-overhaul/)

See he really does not care what West Australians think Polling last week in WA showed that 8-in-10 WA voters support high levels of marine protection and a recent independent economic study showed that marine sanctuaries would help boost our southwest tourism industries to $55 million per year," he said.
Title: Re: The ELECTION Thread
Post by: bnwt on July 27, 2010, 08:15:44 PM
Gillard faces more embarrassment


http://video.au.msn.com/watch/video/gillard-faces-more-embarrassment/xq442wc


hahahahhahahahaha


Title: Re: The ELECTION Thread
Post by: mandurahmum on July 27, 2010, 08:22:43 PM
Now this is more embarrassing for Mr Abbott

http://www.thepunch.com.au/articles/even-tony-abbott-doesnt-believe-tony-abbott/ (http://www.thepunch.com.au/articles/even-tony-abbott-doesnt-believe-tony-abbott/)
Title: Re: The ELECTION Thread
Post by: Rebel*1* on July 27, 2010, 10:10:03 PM
Smee, I don't think you can compare breast feeding in public, with copulation.  For a start, the latter is absolutely illegal and offensive  in a public place, and likely to get you arrested.  I don't consider breast feeding offensive, and by comparison, it's not illegal and you can't be arrested for it.

Breast feeding may be natural and wonderful - but that does not mean you can break the rules - you can fight to get them changed - and that is what she should have done.

MUM, things are not the same here as there.  Breastfeeding doesn't breach any rules of the NSW Parliament, and has been a perfectly acceptable practice since 2007.   Maybe we're more broad minded ? 

http://www.smh.com.au/news/National/Breastfeeding-okay-in-NSW-parliament/2007/10/17/1192300836750.html

Breastfeeding 'okay' in NSW parliament
October 17, 2007 - 3:04PM

NSW has created the nation's first breastfeeding-friendly state parliament by allowing mothers to nurse in both the upper and lower parliamentary chambers.  The NSW parliament is the first state parliament in Australia to provide all of these facilities, and the first to receive the ABA accreditation.


Meanwhile in WA it took public protests, negative media and opposition lobbying, and now, it also isn't against any rules in WA Parliament  either.   The controversy there, was with one female Pollie who introduced a Bill to include Breastfeeding in the WA anti discrimination Legislation.

At one point in 2009, Barnett insisted that there would be no need for a law if only women were “courteous” and “modest”? He was not a popular boy with a statement like that apparently.  LOL.

Realistically, the only thing it offends, is the delicate sensibilities of those who should just look the other way if they can't reconcile with it, or mind their own business. 

MUM, in WA last year there was one woman ejected from a restaurant just for asking if there was a private place where she could breastfeed.  That's now illegal.  Similarly, another woman in Bunbury was harassed by a fellow patron at a cafe for feeding her son under a blanket.  She explained that, they were waiting for lunch, it was too hot in the car to breastfeed in mid summer, and the cafe had no mother's room.  She refused to use the toilet so what other choice did she have?.   Nevertheless, that kind of busy body behaviour and passive aggressive harassment is also now illegal in WA. 

On 25/3/10, Amendments to the Equal Opportunity Act 1984 in WA now prohibit discrimination against mothers breast feeding in a public place, and for related purposes.

http://www.parliament.wa.gov.au/parliament/bills.nsf/BillProgressPopup?openForm&ParentUNID=03EB5BCDE8067839C82575B40014A66C

So all the sensitive conservative types will just have to learn to keep their opinions to themselves.  Women don't go out of their way to breastfeed in public.  It's usually a case of being caught on the run and having no other choice, or like the Bunbury lady, choosing not to feed her child in a hot car or a toilet.  Anyway, you see more bare breasts at the beach and I don't see too many blokes complaining about that.
Title: Re: The ELECTION Thread
Post by: Rebel*1* on July 27, 2010, 10:21:18 PM
Thanks MM, I got a giggle out of this line

We know that Phoney Tony has been receiving acting lessons but quite clearly his acting coach forgot to tell him how important it was to stay ‘in character’.
Title: Re: The ELECTION Thread
Post by: *Ubbie Max* on July 27, 2010, 10:22:52 PM
I just found out that the Shooters & Fishers party will give their preferences to the Libs. I've been thinking about joining Shooters & Fishers party as I'm a keen fisho & hate to see the random banning of recreational fishing in proclaimed areas.

Recreational fishos do no damage to the fish ecology, it's the commercial fishing industry that needs to be curbed.
Title: Re: The ELECTION Thread
Post by: Rebel*1* on July 27, 2010, 10:49:37 PM
True Ubbrd, but I doubt Tony Abbott will or even can do anything about recreational fishing.  He'll support commercial fishing though, because Money Talks.  But is it a Federal jurisdiction or a State one?  I thought it was administered by each State Govt, not Federal. And if that's the case, what relevance would the Federal Election have in changing or overriding those State laws? 

Nevertheless, Tony can't even figure out what is truth or dare according to the 7.30 report that M/Mum gave a link referring to: 

This was the key exchange:

Abbott: “Kerry, all of us when we are in the heat of verbal combat so to speak will sometimes say things that go a little bit further.”

O’Brien: “Mr Abbott, we are not all leaders of major political parties.”

Abbott: “Politicians are going to be judged on everything they say, but sometimes, in the heat of discussion, you go a little bit further than you would if it was an absolutely, uh, calm, considered, prepared, scripted remark. Which is one of the reasons why, the, the the statements that need to be taken absolutely, as, as gospel truth is those carefully prepared, scripted remarks.”

From another person's commentary it was highlighted that:

Abbott seemed to suggest later that O’Brien was merely dragging up maternity leave as an old issue. “This is an argument we could have had in March,” he said.

He then bristled when O’Brien suggested that the maternity leave example helped explain why Abbott was known in the party as “the weathervane”. Abbott said he didn’t think many people called him that. O’Brien then reminded Abbott of his claim at a meeting in a small Victorian town that climate change was “absolute crap”, even though he was saying on the national stage that something clearly had to be done about it.

O’Brien  pointed out that it all sounded a bit reminiscent of John Howard’s famous distinction between “core” and “non-core” promises


http://www.thepunch.com.au/articles/the-curse-of-kerry-now-tony-has-a-7.30-meltdown/
Title: Re: The ELECTION Thread
Post by: mandurahmum on July 27, 2010, 11:11:43 PM
I dont know about you lot being more broadminded - I just dont think we had women in parliament that had babies whilst they were members.

After all - we did have the first female Premier in this country.

Ubbs - your right most of us recreational fishers aren't the problem - most of us now catch and release - or in my case dont catch at all
Title: Re: The ELECTION Thread
Post by: *Yibida* on July 27, 2010, 11:13:43 PM
I just found out that the Shooters & Fishers party will give their preferences to the Libs. I've been thinking about joining Shooters & Fishers party as I'm a keen fisho & hate to see the random banning of recreational fishing in proclaimed areas.

Recreational fishos do no damage to the fish ecology, it's the commercial fishing industry that needs to be curbed.



Ubb's I've been very active protecting our sport the last couple of weeks giving the who's who of politics heaps... I have an official guarantee that our fishing will not be touched... as long the current mob is in power that is.... if that changes then my work will start all over again........ Sigh ! { my identity has been chaged to protect the innocent... me }


Dear Mr Yibida

Thank you for your email to Minister Helper regarding the Victorian National Parks Association's recent call for more marine national parks. The Minister has asked that I respond to you on his behalf.

The Minister has indicated that the Brumby Government has rejected the Victorian National Parks Association's proposal to increase the number of marine parks in Victoria. A joint media release from the Minister for Agriculture and the Minister for Environment and Climate Change is attached below for your information. Click here to read it online.

Thank you for your interest in this matter.

Regards
____________________________________________________________________
Damian Thompson | Departmental Liaison Officer
Office of Joe Helper MP
Minister for Agriculture
Minister for Small Business
t +61 (0) 3 9658 4146    f +61 (0) 3 9658 4671  e damian.thompson@minstaff.vic.gov.au
§ Please consider the environment before printing this e-mail.



 To joe.helper@parliament.vic.gov.au  
cc  
Subject Marine parks issue.

My email to him below....

To Mr Joe Helper

In regards to the proposed marine parks:

where is the data that backs up this theory that marine parks are necessary ? I am now over 50 years old and fished Port Phillip bay and the Victorian coastline all my life, as my father before me, I have not noticed any reduction in bread and butter common fish species, in some areas it has actually improved, it is a shame we do not have a Representative [voice] in the system to counter strike these false claims by the people spreading unfounded information, again where is the data to back up marine parks are needed ? and how many of these people pushing for marine parks enjoy these places ? how many people don the scuba gear every week
end and dive in these areas to enjoy the under sea forests ? NONE thats how many, and to add they would not know the difference between a flathead and a gummy, all our fish are migratory and only visit at certain times of the year, they don't live in marine parks, I see a bleak future for fisho's, boat manufacturers, tackle and bait shops, outboard engine manufacturers,charter operators, tourism,the list is endless, not to mention the unemployment that will occur from recreational fishing services effected, I say NO MORE, show us the proof or data or your arguments are flawed, I speak from years experience, I or thousands of others that have fished the bays all our lives have not been asked for our opinion, It's indeed a brave politician to push this issue, take heed politicians  721,000 Victorians went fishing in 2008-09, that’s an awful lot of voters.

Regards Yibida.  

(http://i691.photobucket.com/albums/vv277/area_51_bucket/Ministersletter.jpg)


My work is done.... for now...
Title: Re: The ELECTION Thread
Post by: *Ubbie Max* on July 27, 2010, 11:39:32 PM
Top stuff Yib. I'm concerned that the NSW govt will react & create new marine parks to make the Greens happy. The current NSW govt is on the skids & unless something dramatic occurs will probably lose the next election.
Title: Re: The ELECTION Thread
Post by: Rebel*1* on July 27, 2010, 11:42:21 PM
OK Ubbrd, now I get it.  MM's link explains what he's up to.    But I still don't think he can override State Govts all over Australia and all the many Environmental groups that exist Nation Wide. 

Further, There are parts of Australia that are already Marine Reserves for very good reason, and anyone suggesting that they should be thrown open would come up against HUGE opposition from one coastline to the other. 

Whilst  I sympathise with recreational fishing fanatics, in some places, it's not just Fishing that a marine reserve limits.  It also limits mining and at this point, the regions mum has been mentioning are two such places that need to be protected from Mining specifically to preserve the Environment along with the Fishing and Tourist industries.  I agree there has to be balance, but if it came to a choice, I'd choose to preserve Margaret River and the Kimberley coast as Marine Reserves, just to ensure the mining companies don't get to exploit them.

I have no doubt therefore why Abbott is trying to stop any future marine reserves being declared on the North West and South West WA coastlines in particular.    But it isn't about protecting commercial or recreational fishing.  Try Mining interests instead.  This is what was detailed in the link Mum posted.

The Federal Opposition has made a pitch to commercial and recreational fishermen promising to suspend the current process that decides what parts of Australia's coastlines should be given environmental protection.

In other words, he wants to head off any Marine reserves being declared in places that might limit his mining buddies from having access.

Speaking at a fish market in the central Queensland town of Mackay, Opposition Leader Tony Abbott promised that if the coalition won power it would suspend the marine bioregional planning process.

Mr Abbott also promised that the Fisheries Minister under a Coalition government would have equal say as the environment minister over what areas should be given protection.

"This is a very important issue right around Australia," Mr Abbott said. "Certainly this is an issue that is deeply troubling regional Australia and it is an issue that is deeply troubling people who enjoy fishing."

Mr Abbott also promised that under a Coalition government all future decisions on marine protected areas would be considered using peer reviewed scientific evidence that would be made available to all stakeholders, including local communities and fishing industries.

The North-West and South-West waters of WA was scheduled to fall under the draft plan with local environment groups pushing for a vast swathe of the Indian and Southern oceans to fall under the plan.


So when he says stakeholders, is he talking mining companies?  It's not surprising why he's onto this one, because no doubt the mining companies are already lobbying to get any possible restriction removed so they can mine the hell out of it.  He's just manipulating the fishing enthusiasts and commercial fishermen to give him support so he can bring them a nice big shiny Oil rig to kill off the fish altogether with the first mistake?   As MM said, it's deeper than the Gulf Rig and they can't fix that disaster can they? 

It's not hard to see what he's up to.  Sneaky barstard.  Cuddled up nice and snug with the Mining Industry as usual?   Nevertheless, he can say what he wants, I seriously doubt he'd get that kind of caper into legislation anyway.
Title: Re: The ELECTION Thread
Post by: *Yibida* on July 27, 2010, 11:49:03 PM
Top stuff Yib. I'm concerned that the NSW govt will react & create new marine parks to make the Greens happy. The current NSW govt is on the skids & unless something dramatic occurs will probably lose the next election.

Ubb's we have 13 marine parks as of now.... I have been leaked information from behind closed doors of a deal done that if the greens didn't oppose the dredging of Port phillip bay they could have all the marine parks they wanted .... the recreational fishers have caused a huge back lash hense the back flip by Brumby... don't get me wrong we are all for fish conservation... just not where they are placed... the data is impossible to get { I suspect there is none }  we old salts have not been consulted and we know where they should be placed....
Title: Re: The ELECTION Thread
Post by: Rebel*1* on July 28, 2010, 12:02:23 AM
I'd say the East Coast has more than anywhere else probably.  Currently only one per cent of WA waters are protected by marine sanctuaries.
Title: Re: The ELECTION Thread
Post by: *Ubbie Max* on July 28, 2010, 12:11:00 AM
Yeah Yib, I suspect the story is or will be the same in many other states.

I have no objection to areas being declared off limits to mining & commercial fishing as it is these industries that cause the damage. Most recreational fishos comply with the laws. We return undersize fish & stick to the bag limits, in fact, blokes like me return most legal size fish anyway. I only keep a feed for the family (a few fish) & then only sometimes..  

It is the commercial fishing industry bi-catch that causes a lot of damage ie undersize fish & non targeted species being caught in the nets. These fish are either already dead when the nets are brought in or die shortly afterward.

Overfishing is a big problem in the commercial fishing industry, look what happened to the Orange Roughy. The industry was warned but took no notice & the Orange Roughy is now scarce in NSW.

Incidently, contrary to what some would have the population believe, a fish mouth hooked will survive when returned to the water.

Rebel, I think your right. WA has a huge coastline & a smaller population the NSW hense, fewer recreational fishos per kilometer of coastline.
Title: Re: The ELECTION Thread
Post by: *Yibida* on July 28, 2010, 12:15:57 AM
The anti-fishing lobby has been at it for years....unfounded lies and propaganda... that's what they are all about... { they could do with a bath also }
Title: Re: The ELECTION Thread
Post by: Rebel*1* on July 28, 2010, 12:19:51 AM
I have no objection to areas being declared off limits to mining & commercial fishing as it is these industries that cause the damage.

You have to wonder why Pollies can't make that distinction though and as usual it's all or nothing.  btw, I'm not anti fishing, I'm anti mining and commercial fishing in places that are overtaxed or sensitive. = Commercial exploitation.  I have nothing against fishing and I happen to think that some of the state laws are ridiculous.   Luckily they don't affect me.

BTW I was being told recently that the State Govt are talking about relaxing abalone harvesting in some places for recreational divers.  LOL.  You'll love this.  They're allowed to have two.  Why?  Well, there are Million dollar contracts that dominate the abalone industry in most places and nobody else is allowed to touch them.  (I'm no expert on this I just heard about it).  
Title: Re: The ELECTION Thread
Post by: *Ubbie Max* on July 28, 2010, 12:34:53 AM
Rebel At the end of the day it's all about votes.
 
"Is it a good idea, yes, are there any votes in it for me, no, we won't do it then".
Title: Re: The ELECTION Thread
Post by: mandurahmum on July 28, 2010, 02:53:56 AM
I dont know much about the marine reserves over in the east - but over here most of the ones that are protected - needed to be protected.  Recreational fishing is a big thing over here, Lots of us have the sticker on our car - I fish and I vote.  Most of us stick to the bag limits and the speed limits in sheltered areas.

But only 1% of our coastline is a marine reserve - ningaloo is probably the biggest area and most of us are glad that is now protected. 

The two areas we want to protect will have little effect on most WA's - there are not a lot of people who live in the Kimberley per sq km.

I dont know that Margaret River is known for fishing - there is too much else to do and see.

I think that is why it is important to leave these decisions to the States - because we know our area better than someone in a different state.  Why should some Politician in Canberra get to say what happens over here - when they have probably never visited the place and seen it for themselves.  The states have more of a vested interest in getting it right.
Title: Re: The ELECTION Thread
Post by: *r3830* on July 28, 2010, 07:26:01 AM
Yib, I'm a foundation member of the NSW Shooters Party. This now includes fisherman, 4WD, Archery, Horse Riding and a number of other sporting disciplines. The formation of a party became important - or,  we would all lose our freedoms concerning our sporting activities. Monday was a good example - where a robbery went wrong and two people - the robber, and a bystander were shot. The robber died. The Greens, Ms Rhiannon's response - ban all semi automatic handguns! And, as always, the only people who are affected are the lawful ones. It's extremely doubtful that the robber was an upstanding citizen, using a licenced firearm to commit the crime........ but that matters not - particularly when the outcome serves some narrow minded party agenda!
Title: Re: The ELECTION Thread
Post by: HellWest'nCrooked on July 28, 2010, 07:50:32 AM


  If we all get it ..........why don't the politicians?  aren't they made of the same stuff  ie grey matter between the ears.?   I often wonder where they lose it on the way up, fairly close to the bottom rung I suggest.
Title: Re: The ELECTION Thread
Post by: *r3830* on July 28, 2010, 08:00:30 AM
Good to see you Westy.....

There was a time when we were allowed to pursue our interests. From memory, that was a minor thing called freedom. These days however - EVERYBODY has to be sooooo vigilant - or someone who does not like what you do with your time will have your options taken away from you. And they call that fair and reasonable! It is still a fact that you can do whatever you like - as long as its legal. Simple solution to that is to make things illegal, or a fall back = regulate things out of existence = reduce people's options.
Title: Re: The ELECTION Thread
Post by: bnwt on July 28, 2010, 08:00:47 AM
PM Julia Gillard's radio ratings in a downward spiral

Talkback callers on ABC's 720 in Perth, for instance, have been heavily favouring Abbott over Gillard.


http://www.theaustralian.com.au/national-affairs/pm-julia-gillards-radio-ratings-in-a-downward-spiral/story-fn59niix-1225897736082
Title: Re: The ELECTION Thread
Post by: *Yibida* on July 28, 2010, 10:06:32 AM
Yib, I'm a foundation member of the NSW Shooters Party. This now includes fisherman, 4WD, Archery, Horse Riding and a number of other sporting disciplines. The formation of a party became important - or,  we would all lose our freedoms concerning our sporting activities. Monday was a good example - where a robbery went wrong and two people - the robber, and a bystander were shot. The robber died. The Greens, Ms Rhiannon's response - ban all semi automatic handguns! And, as always, the only people who are affected are the lawful ones. It's extremely doubtful that the robber was an upstanding citizen, using a licenced firearm to commit the crime........ but that matters not - particularly when the outcome serves some narrow minded party agenda!

Hi Loco, these marine parks are not to sustain our fish stocks, they are there to appease the green vote.. fish in other states have different breeding cycles and locations but our fish in Port Phillip bay only enter our bay to spawn and then leave for the ocean, the window of opportunity is only a few short months, they spawn all over the bay constantly moving around dropping eggs.. not just in a designated "marine park" {can they read signs now ? - drop eggs here } if they were serious about protecting fish stocks they would have to close the bay completely to fishing from September to April whilst all fish species entering our bay spawn... Now that would make the whole community happy wouldn't it.. yep everyone is effected eh not just fisho's.. our southern coast line is not safely accessible unless you have a big seaworthy boat... hence the reason for everyone fishing inside the bay { and it's a huge bay } the data the greens said they have to support marine parks is non existent... we have been hit with size and catch limits over the years and supported this move happily.. but they are not content with this they want us off the water all together it would seem... the anti-fishing lobby is alive and well... we fisho's have been battling them for years.. the struggle between good and evil will continue in the future as it has in the past..   
Title: Re: The ELECTION Thread
Post by: *smee* on July 28, 2010, 10:10:40 AM
Sounds like something fishy was going on between Brumby and the greens
Title: Re: The ELECTION Thread
Post by: *r3830* on July 28, 2010, 10:15:11 AM
Good to see you Yib.... really hope you're recovering well!

I remember watching a show with Rex Hunt - about the fishermen and women of Port Phillip Bay. To see so many people - families and kids - enjoying themselves, in pretty close proximity to everyone else struck me as something pretty special. It's a beautiful area - and quite large as you say. I'd imagine there would be a huge backlash from the people there if the area was closed to them.
Title: Re: The ELECTION Thread
Post by: *Yibida* on July 28, 2010, 10:24:36 AM
WE need something along the lines of your NSW Shooters Party. That includes fisherman, 4WD, Archery, Horse Riding ect... our current Piscatorial representation is minimal to say the least...
Title: Re: The ELECTION Thread
Post by: *r3830* on July 28, 2010, 10:33:41 AM
The Shooters party has two representatives in the Senate here. That certainly does help a great deal.
Title: Re: The ELECTION Thread
Post by: *r3830* on July 28, 2010, 10:40:09 AM
Something for you to have a look at Yibs..... they do have Victorian developments on the agenda here. I wasn't aware of the name change!

Shooters and Fishers Party

http://www.shootersparty.org.au/ (http://www.shootersparty.org.au/)
Title: Re: The ELECTION Thread
Post by: *Ubbie Max* on July 28, 2010, 10:52:08 AM
G'day Loco. I want to join the Shooters and Fishers Party. What's the procedure. The Federal party.
Title: Re: The ELECTION Thread
Post by: Rebel*1* on July 28, 2010, 10:56:21 AM
Yibida, MM is right in that regard re:  It should be a State Govt decision, based on community consensus.  I am not a fishing enthusiast on this coast, but when I lived in WA, it was a way of life and part of the fun.   I have no issue with recreational fishing.  I doubt too many would try to prevent that activity specifically if the facts were put forward.  I think more the case that the whole issue just got thrown together under the banner of 'environmental protection' or depleting fish stocks due to 'over fishing' by the commercial fishing industry.  

If you want to get those particular laws reviewed then any party representing recreational fishing enthusiasts, should be focusing on THAT specific issue alone.  i.e. Not trying to argue the actual marine preservation status itself, or giving support to Abbott to barstardise the current scheme.  Much better to be lobbying for exemptions for recreational fishing specifically, and leaving the Marine Reserves intact and safe from the major vandals.

Nobody is going to agree to putting sensitive Marine areas at risk just to appease fishing enthusiasts, if that also involves allowing Mining companies to have a free for all because of it.   Recreational fishing needs to be made distinct from commercial interests i.e. it's 'a different kettle of fish'.  lol

I for one would view it as rather selfish and short sighted of anyone to support Abbott on scrapping future Marine Reserves, just so they can preserve a sport?  I think you'd find that many other Australians share those views.  That's why we have Marine Reserves. LOL

I can appreciate that regulation in many recreational interests are making this century so anal it's ridiculous.  But the way to get this type of issue on the table is to differentiate it from Mining and Commercial Fishing.    Why not suggest that to the Fishing organisations instead of just throwing preferences to Abbott so he can open the door to his mining mates under false pretenses?
Title: Re: The ELECTION Thread
Post by: *Yibida* on July 28, 2010, 11:10:27 AM


Thursday, 22 July, 2010

BRUMBY GOVERNMENT RULES OUT MORE MARINE PARKS

The Brumby Labor Government has not accepted a proposal to increase the number of marine parks in Victoria, the Minister for Environment and Climate Change, Gavin Jennings, said today.

Mr Jennings said the proposal contained in a report by the independent Victorian National Parks Association would not be acted on by the Brumby Labor Government.

“The Brumby Labor Government has ruled out creating more marine parks and will not amend the current marine national parks before the election or during the next term of government. This is similar to the moratorium introduced recently in New South Wales,” Mr Jennings said.

“While independent groups like the Victorian National Parks Association are free to put forward their views, this is not a proposal that the Brumby Labor Government is entertaining.

“Victoria’s marine national parks were established in 2002 in consultation with all stakeholders to protect marine life in those designated areas. Victoria has a world class system of 13 marine national parks and 11 smaller marine sanctuaries, protecting 5.3 per cent of our coastal waters.

“Our Government established those marine national parks in consultation with all stakeholders to protect marine life in those designated areas – and we are not changing these arrangements.”

The Minister Responsible for Fisheries, Joe Helper, said it was deeply disappointing that the Liberal and National parties had sought to deceive anglers by politically hijacking the issue and misrepresenting the Victorian Government’s position on the report.

Mr Helper said the Brumby Labor Government had a strong track record supporting recreational fishing.

“We are investing heavily in recreational fishing and are not going to close down those opportunities all Victorians are now enjoying,” he said.

The Victorian Government has committed:
•   $13.5 million for an Enhanced Recreational Fishing Program which includes the target to increase fish stocks by 30 per cent;

•   $1.3 million to build a new native fish hatchery at Snobs Creek;

•   $5 million to buy back licences in the Western Zone Rock Lobster industry to ensure that particular fishery remained sustainable; and

•   $3.2 million to the Go Fishing in Victoria initiative to improve fishing infrastructure around the state and encourage Victorian families to go fishing.

“The Brumby Labor Government will continue to work with organisations such as the Futurefish Foundation, the Australian Trout Foundation, Native Fish Australia and the Victorian Recreational Fishing roundtable to grow participation in recreational fishing and deliver enhanced recreational fishing opportunities for all Victorians to enjoy,” Mr Helper said.




News Item Added July 17th 2010
 
VRFish, The Peak Recreational Fishing Body representing all recreational fishers in Victoria, today condemned a demand by the Victorian National Parks Association (VNPA) for the creation of 20 new marine parks along the Victorian coastline, and the report commissioned to justify this call.

The report titled Nature Conservation Review: Marine and Coastal Issues Paper places recreational fishing as the key threat to our marine biodiversity, on a par with global warming.

The VNPA are using the outcomes of an international congress1 to justify their demand to lock up another 20% of our coastline to recreational fishing through blindly committing us to yet another international agreement.



VRFish, The Peak Recreational Fishing Body representing all recreational fishers in
Victoria, welcomes the State Government's rejection of a plan by the Victorian
National Parks Association to lock recreational fishers out of Victorian coastal waters
and the subsequent government rule out of creating more marine parks.
"Recreational Fishers, Boaters and the Victorian coastal community in general will be
satisfied with this genuine response from the Brumby Government" said VRFish
Chair, Geoff Cramer.
"VRFish is working tirelessly on behalf of the Victorian recreational fishing community
to continually improve our recreation and sport. VRFish will continue to lead and
advocate on any threat to both recreational fishing and the marine environment".
"The support we have received to help us combat this new marine park proposal
showed us that we were not alone in our opposition, and that there are many
ordinary Victorians who believe that the locking out of recreational fishing from areas
is not the best way to protect our fantastic marine environment" Geoff said.
"VRFish would like to acknowledge the Brumby Labor Government's prompt
response to this issue and on behalf of Victoria's recreational fishers we would like to
make special mention of the many people involved in this campaign who contributed
through hard work for, and support of, the Victorian recreational fishing community".
Title: Re: The ELECTION Thread
Post by: *r3830* on July 28, 2010, 11:11:07 AM
Ubbie - I've just written to John Tingle to find out about the joining process. Will post a result here as soon as the info becomes available. The NEW website link is shown below. Just joined the forum on this by the way.


http://www.shootersandfishers.org.au/ (http://www.shootersandfishers.org.au/)
Title: Re: The ELECTION Thread
Post by: MrsFluffyDodgers on July 28, 2010, 11:18:21 AM
Sorry Fishing people, good points, just had to say this and it had all moved on...

I don't think you can compare breast feeding in public, with copulation.  For a start, the latter is absolutely illegal and offensive  in a public place, and likely to get you arrested.  I don't consider breast feeding offensive, and by comparison, it's not illegal and you can't be arrested for it.

Breast feeding may be natural and wonderful - but that does not mean you can break the rules - you can fight to get them changed - and that is what she should have done.
MUM, things are not the same here as there.  Breastfeeding doesn't breach any rules of the NSW Parliament, and has been a perfectly acceptable practice since 2007.   Maybe we're more broad minded ?


Heellllooooo  there Miss Rebel.

I breastfeed my little Fluffy for 12 months and I found from experience that it was not acceptable to feed little ducklings, willy nilly in public.  Duck Dodgers and I had Plukka come and stay for a few days and I thought I would be OK to feed little Fluffy in the pond loungeroom whilst Plukka was there, but little Fluffy just messed around and came off and looked around at times, exposing my beautiful, bountiful bosoms (I hope Golden is listening) and well, surprisingly, Plukka was extremely embarrassed and actually asked me to refrain from exposing myself in that way as he couldn’t handle it.  Sooooo Plukka would leave the room if I had to feed or I would feed Fluffy in the pond nursery.

That aside, the workplace is not a place at any time for either human babies or ducklings.   Having a little one is a major life changing responsibility and the consequences of procreating is something to be carefully considered.   .

Whilst I tried not to be in people’s faces when feeding little Fluffy, there were occasions, I do admit, when I was out and had no choice but to feed her (dear little thing she was), but I would only do it because there was no other choice and would cover myself with a little blanky if I couldn’t find somewhere suitable.  Most shopping centres have several rooms set up to look after babies and mothers so most of the time there was no issue.

I would think it would be against the rules of Parliament to bring children in there.  Whatever would posses a woman to take her baby to work – and parliament at that – and set about publicly nurturing her child?  It was not the result of being forced into the position of feeding because there was nowhere else, like I occasionally found myself in.  It was a forced and contrived situation – unnatural.  In my humble and considered opinion, it would have been to make a point and an unnecessary one in those circumstances at that.  
Title: Re: The ELECTION Thread
Post by: *r3830* on July 28, 2010, 11:28:06 AM
I'm going blind I think Ubbie..... refer link below!


http://www.shootersandfishers.org.au/get-involved/default.aspx (http://www.shootersandfishers.org.au/get-involved/default.aspx)
Title: Re: The ELECTION Thread
Post by: *r3830* on July 28, 2010, 11:43:06 AM
I would think it would be against the rules of Parliament to bring children in there.  Whatever would posses a woman to take her baby to work – and parliament at that – and set about publicly nurturing her child?  It was not the result of being forced into the position of feeding because there was nowhere else, like I occasionally found myself in.  It was a forced and contrived situation – unnatural.  In my humble and considered opinion, it would have been to make a point and an unnecessary one in those circumstances at that. 

Good Morning MrsFluffyDodgers! Wonderful to see you here!

I remember that story well. I actually emailed the young lady concerned.... can't remember her name - but a Green member from South Aussie I think.

As I recall, she had to attend an important vote in the house. The bells were rung necessitating her being there. I remember that there was a large deal of criticism pointed at her - regarding the care of her daughter. (She did have a carer - but this person could not provide feeding.) It wasn't a first - as there was earlier precedent.... but it went along the lines that it was a deliberate attempt to exclude her from the vote.

I must be awfully out of date - because I can't see any problem, or embarrassment, or issue in general regarding a mother breastfeeding her baby. I do think it a wonderful and beautiful thing...... I don't consider it to be sexual in nature, nor aligned with copulation (which certainly would be an issue LOL... although, hearing about the actions of some of our politicians..... well....)

Parliament was always the realm of men. This is slowly changing, ever so slowly unfortunately. But, along with these changes - perhaps there could be a rethink of the existing rules and an  introduction of some gender specific rules, to accommodate and assist these changes.
Title: Re: The ELECTION Thread
Post by: Rebel*1* on July 28, 2010, 12:10:43 PM
In fact Yibida, why not take a good look at why Marine Reserve classification is applied and what affect that Fed. legislation has on similar State laws restricting fishing.   Are they different or aligned for instance?  Can Fed override State and vice versa?  Whoever has the most power, is the target of any lobbying.  

There would be reasons given State and Federal, to justify the recreational fishing restrictions, and the trick is to demonstrate that they are wrong by way of a reasoned argument.   Those sporting parties you are talking about should be doing just that on their own merit, not getting in bed with Abbott.

Assisting Abbott to overturn the entire Marine reserve classification scheme thinking it will make any difference to recreational fishing (and thereby advantaging only the mining interests) is a travesty.  

Hello Fluffy.  I agree with Loco.  'The Times They are a Changin' and I think that's a good thing.  No woman should be humiliated or ejected for breast feeding.  I'd stand up for any nursing mum being harassed over it.  Who wouldn't?

Various women I personally know, have returned to work shortly after having their child, in 'salaried professional positions', and on various occasions had to breast feed on the run.  (Modesty taken into account of course)   That's life.  

I believe they were really lucky to have had the type of jobs, and employers willing to enable them to do that in the absence of paid leave.    i.e the employers couldn't afford to have key personnel absent for too long, so they made provisions for that person in the workplace so they can be there and also be with their newborn child.

Not every woman has that luxury, and you're right, a majority can't very well take a newborn to work.  So this paid parental leave will help a lot of working mums no doubt.  Much better than a baby bonus isn't it?  I think that is totally off the wall.  
Title: Re: The ELECTION Thread
Post by: shyer on July 28, 2010, 12:55:05 PM
I'm going blind I think Ubbie..... refer link below!


http://www.shootersandfishers.org.au/get-involved/default.aspx (http://www.shootersandfishers.org.au/get-involved/default.aspx)

Thanks loco just joined voted for thm before but as the web page says these days it is a numbers game
Title: Re: The ELECTION Thread
Post by: *r3830* on July 28, 2010, 02:11:08 PM
Good afternoon Paul

Yes, it’s still me, slogging away in the background, but pretty much sidelined these days, to let the new boys do their damnedest.    Good to hear from you, and I trust all is well with you.

It’s all got a  bit complicated since we changed the  name and got the fancy website.     But in some ways, it’s simpler.

To join or renew you go to Australian Shooters and Fishers Party, and click the “Contact Us” box on the top banner.     That leads to a form where you enter your personal details, and when you scroll down, it offers you a number of options, including how to join or renew.

While it’s a bit harder to find, you can pay on line now with PayPal, or still use a credit card or a good old fashioned cheque if you prefer.

If you still have trouble, come back to me and I’ll try to help, although some technology is getting to be beyond me!

Cheers

John



GAWWWWD Mate - You're not on your own there!

Had an old email address. Wasn't sure whether it would still be in use or not. Well, it is, and JT is still as active as ever! That news has made my day!
Title: Re: The ELECTION Thread
Post by: bnwt on July 28, 2010, 02:49:28 PM
Sabotage. And there may be more to come ............... let's hope so


http://www.smh.com.au/opinion/politics/sabotage-and-there-may-be-more-to-come-20100727-10uc0.html?autostart=1
Title: Re: The ELECTION Thread
Post by: bnwt on July 28, 2010, 03:02:21 PM
The hangover after Gillard's Labor party


http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2010/07/28/2966627.htm?site=thedrum
Title: Re: The ELECTION Thread
Post by: Rebel*1* on July 28, 2010, 04:12:24 PM
One of the few objective comments on that 'sabotage' link was this:

I feel that to have any real credibility or integrity and to back up his claims, Laurie Oakes should reveal who his informant is, that is, if they really do exist and Oakes is not just making up these stories to use as a weapon to attack Julia Gillard with.
I am not buying into these stories by Laurie Oakes simply because he hasn't offered or put forward any real proof as to whether they are authentic or not. and the only way that Laurie Oakes can do that is to reveal his source of information, otherwise his stories are baseless, worthless and not backed up by any real proof or evidence.


So, Firstly, and as Gillard said this morning, these are 'anonymous' allegations.  I agree that if this person exists, then they should step forward and add credibility to the allegations.  That is unless it's another Turnbull episode.  Guess they learned nothing about accusing people like the PM without credible evidence huh.

Now, let's deal with the proposition of an elected official breaching Cabinet Confidentiality, because clearly that rather OBVIOUS second point is being overlooked entirely in terms of the informants so called credibility.   Such an individual, if they exist, CAN'T be trusted and hence, can't be believed.  Their credibility is already shot because of their devious conduct.

The informant should step forward and take responsibility for these allegations and their complete lack of integrity and discretion.  True or not, it's not the point.  The fact that the informant breached Cabinet Confidentiality in the process is more the point.    Obviously the person who has leaked this information (if they exist), is perhaps more deserved of being BOOTED out of Politics for having no respect for Cabinet Confidentiality.  How the hell can the Pollies speak their mind if they have no confidence that what's said in the Cabinet stays in cabinet?  This whole thing stinks of Liberal toe cutting Abbott & Hockey style. 

The treatment of Cabinet ‘leaks’ and unauthorised disclosures

If a Commonwealth public servant discloses Cabinet material without authorisation, under current law they could be subject to criminal prosecution under s. 70 of the Crimes Act 1914.[63] Section 70, Disclosure of information by Commonwealth officers, is a general secrecy provision that the Commonwealth adapted from s. 86 of the Criminal Code Act 1899 (Qld). 

If there is a real person behind these leaks, then I hope they are charged and sued for their immoral actions.  IN the meantime they should be resigning.
Title: Re: The ELECTION Thread
Post by: wyzeguy60 on July 28, 2010, 04:30:01 PM
I am not buying into these stories by Laurie Oakes simply because he hasn't offered or put forward any real proof as to whether they are authentic or not. and the only way that Laurie Oakes can do that is to reveal his source of information, otherwise his stories are baseless, worthless and not backed up by any real proof or evidence.

oh is that so.

Have you got proof of the following statement or is your opinion gospel ???

" Why not suggest that to the Fishing organisations instead of just throwing preferences to Abbott so he can open the door to his mining mates under false pretenses? "

Oh and of course Labor wouldn't do the same would they for a few bucks. Oh of course not - they would just tax them out of existence - lol.

 ;D
 ;D
Title: Re: The ELECTION Thread
Post by: Rebel*1* on July 28, 2010, 04:41:40 PM
LOL, Wyzeguy, did it occur to you, why that was put in italics in the first place?  Go and read it again, it was a quoted from the link bnwt posted with a prefacing statement that went something like this: "One of the few objective comments on that 'sabotage' link was this:"

Here, nick on over to the site I quoted it from and ask the person who posted it if her opinion is Gospel.  I just happened to agree with her.  LOL.  Next?

http://www.smh.com.au/opinion/politics/sabotage-and-there-may-be-more-to-come-20100727-10uc0.html?autostart=1

On the Second Point? What issues are you talking about here?  Abbots attempt to undermine the present Marine Reserve program by enlisting the fishing industry under false pretenses?  Or his refusal to tax his mining buddies and fund infrastructure?  

Title: Re: The ELECTION Thread
Post by: Rebel*1* on July 28, 2010, 05:00:08 PM
BTW, just so you are aware of just how unconscionably this 'informant' (if they actually exist), has acted, this is the whole concept of Cabinet confidentiality and the pledges taken to honour discretion and integrity.   So whoever has done this (if they exist) is clearly someone who can't be trusted, and that is self evident in their actions.   

The concept of Cabinet confidentiality 

Two key interlinked features of Cabinet are collective responsibility and confidentiality. Members of Cabinet are collectively responsible for the decisions made by Cabinet. While disagreement may be aired within the confines of a Cabinet meeting, it is a convention that cabinet decisions will be fully and publicly supported by all Ministers, despite any personal views held by individual Ministers. Ministers and any officials are expected to refrain from public comment on matters to be considered by Cabinet. The confidentiality of cabinet proceedings supports the principle of collective responsibility, by promoting open and free discussion including the airing of dissenting views and compromise. The Cabinet Handbook states:

    Ministry, Cabinet and Cabinet committees are forums in which ministers, while working towards a collective position, are able to discuss proposals and a variety of options and views with complete freedom. The openness and frankness of discussions in the Cabinet Room are protected by the strict observance of this confidentiality.

Fidelity to Cabinet is seen as critical to maintaining the position of a Minister of the Crown, as Quick and Garran remarked in 1901, ‘if any member of the Cabinet seriously dissents from the opinion and policy approved by the majority of his colleagues it is his duty as a man of honour to resign’. Ministers who participate in meetings of the Federal Executive Council, established by s. 62 of the Constitution, ‘shall take the oath of allegiance, the official oath and the oath of fidelity’.


So, this person has also breached their oath of allegiance under the constitution, their official oath and oath of fidelity, and that's OK?


 
Title: Re: The ELECTION Thread
Post by: wyzeguy60 on July 28, 2010, 05:10:05 PM
I have come to the distinct conclusion that there is absolutely no point arguing with you rebel.

It doesn't matter what is pointed out you twist it to your own advantage and escape from the point I was making. I find that highly offensive to say the least - reminds me of some inane union bosses I have had the displeasure of dealing with.

It is annoying and inflamatory to criticise a Liberal leader with no PROOF and in the same breath speak volumes about Labor's agenda - an agenda which is clearly designed to rack the country with obscene debt, waste millions on the education revolution, fail dismally in the delivery of insulation installation resulting in at least 4 deaths and 147 house fires and growing, fail on key election promises, etc etc.

That is the point I was making - NOT whether I copied a link in Italics from a previous post !!!!

need I say more.

Title: Re: The ELECTION Thread
Post by: Rebel*1* on July 28, 2010, 05:22:47 PM
I have come to the distinct conclusion that there is absolutely no point arguing with you rebel.

It doesn't matter what is pointed out you twist it to your own advantage and escape from the point I was making. I find that highly offensive to say the least - reminds me of some inane union bosses I have had the displeasure of dealing with


Firstly, you seem to be more argumentative in that regard, I'm simply addressing the issues, and where possible providing links to legislation or other aspects of the debate that dispel assumption.  I haven't twisted anything, here's how it went.  You quoted something that I hadn't actually said, and then specifically got agro at me, not the statement with challenging rhetoric such as:

oh is that so.

Have you got proof of the following statement or is your opinion gospel ???


Who were you addressing that to?  And in what way does that type of approach seem anything but hostile?, particularly given that I didn't make the comments you reacted to? 

As for ALP doing the same, it is the ALP who are administering the current Marine Reserve Program Federally, and Abbott who wishes to scrap it.  You figure it out.

Oh, and please, the Pink Bat Program again?  It was the many dishonest contracting firms who installed the wrong materials under UNSAFE work conditions that have caused the fires and the deaths and that's exactly what State Courts are finding as they charge and sue those really responsible.   All the Govt did was make a bloody rebate available.  Anyway, I guess for some it's easy to just believe whatever Abbott says,  and never look into the real story.  Being skeptical is healthy, you should try it, particularly with anything Abbott has to say. 

Title: Re: The ELECTION Thread
Post by: *smee* on July 28, 2010, 06:04:45 PM
http://au.news.yahoo.com/thewest/a/-/newshome/7653559/abbott-promises-drastic-fisheries-overhal/ (http://uau.news.yahoo.com/thewest/a/-/newshome/7653559/abbott-promises-drastic-fisheries-overhaul/)

See he really does not care what West Australians think Polling last week in WA showed that 8-in-10 WA voters support high levels of marine protection and a recent independent economic study showed that marine sanctuaries would help boost our southwest tourism industries to $55 million per year," he said.

people  need to read the whole story in context .... this is an important sentence
Mr Abbott also promised that under a Coalition government all future decisions on marine protected areas would be considered using peer reviewed scientific evidence that would be made available to all stakeholders, including local communities and fishing industries

This means he does care what the public think
Title: Re: The ELECTION Thread
Post by: wyzeguy60 on July 28, 2010, 06:06:11 PM
okay back to school time

who said these words on this forum

1 - i.e. Not trying to argue the actual marine preservation status itself, or giving support to Abbott to barstardise the current scheme.

2 - Why not suggest that to the Fishing organisations instead of just throwing preferences to Abbott so he can open the door to his mining mates under false pretenses?

3 - Assisting Abbott to overturn the entire Marine reserve classification scheme thinking it will make any difference to recreational fishing (and thereby advantaging only the mining interests) is a travesty.

Have you got proof ( yes PROOF ) of his intentions in this regard ?

Provide the proof and I will back off.

Please don't think I am hostile at all but when somebody keeps pressing their agenda against Abbott then there comes a point where his believers and followers may react.

It probably surprises you to hear this. I would rather eat sewerage than entertain a vote for that annoying striny red head.

 ;D
Title: Re: The ELECTION Thread
Post by: *smee* on July 28, 2010, 06:18:57 PM
I would rather eat sewerage than entertain a vote for that annoying striny red head.

move to Queensland ...Toowoomba in particular and Anna Bligh will have you drinking it if she and the TCC have their way , despite 67% voting no for treating waste water into drinking water they know better
Title: Re: The ELECTION Thread
Post by: Rebel*1* on July 28, 2010, 06:21:11 PM
Abbott himself is saying it.  The very fact that the regions that are on the table right now for Marine Park status, are also two locations  where mining companies want access for unsustainable mining at any cost, tells me already that his penchant to disrupt marine reserves has nothing to do with fishing.  

Fishy yes, fishing no.  The very fact that he also 'WON'T' tax the mining companies when our National Infrastructure is crippling to breaking point, is also a fairly good indication of where his loyalties lie.  

The fact that the guy can't even articulate an intelligent reply in a press conference without Hockey and another of the club there to hold his hand, and even then with three of them, still they couldn't do more than play the blame game?  Tells me he can't handle the top job.

Did you actually Watch Julia Gillard answer questions this morning?  Intelligent open, and unscripted on every point.  She didn't need to consult anyone standing beside her.  Abbott by comparison was floundering, and couldn't string a sentence together that didn't include his negative sloganism or his entourage jumping in to save him?  

As for judging someone on how they look?  How shallow is that?  I couldn't care less what Abbott Looks like, his complete lack of intelligence and ability to string two intelligent sentences together is what puts me off him.  Oh and the contradictions.  That too.
Title: Re: The ELECTION Thread
Post by: Rebel*1* on July 28, 2010, 06:33:44 PM
Mr Abbott also promised that under a Coalition government all future decisions on marine protected areas would be considered using peer reviewed scientific evidence that would be made available to all stakeholders, including local communities and fishing industries

That seems to suggest that he won't be consulting them, just making his 'peer' reviewed scientific evidence available to stakeholders.  He's not saying he'll include their interests or stakeholders themselves in the decision making process.  So here's a wild card.  Who will make up this so called Peer Reviewed Scientific Panel?  People of his Govts choosing?
Title: Re: The ELECTION Thread
Post by: mandurahmum on July 28, 2010, 06:57:22 PM
Why aren't we hearing about the 2 wars we are fighting - are they no longer election issues?  Especially now that all those papers have been leaked.  Is it just a given that we will stay for as long as it takes - even though it seems that both are unwinnable wars.
Title: Re: The ELECTION Thread
Post by: *smee* on July 28, 2010, 06:59:25 PM
I have no idea , but do you know what the current process is ?????

I dont know that either , but I have read that the Dept of Environment , water , heritage and the arts dont even ask the dept of fisheries for any input before they want to make an area a Marine reserve ...

I am not saying that there shouldnt be marine reserves I just dont think they need to declare somewhere like Margaret River a marine reserve just so it stops the mining coz it also stops a lot of other activities as well ...... they should just use common sense and if they dont want an oil rig there just say you aint putting an oil rig there .... simple as that .......no need to got to any other lengths
Title: Re: The ELECTION Thread
Post by: *smee* on July 28, 2010, 07:21:51 PM
http://www.oceanplanet.org.au/national.php#wa

Whilst searching for info on the current process I have just found this site , and it seems to contradict things mentioned in other links and stories mentioned by us on this thread in relation to this , for example ....

Western Australia has thirteen multiple use marine parks, marine management areas and marine nature reserves, covering 11.7% of the state waters, with a high level of protection offered to 2.4% of the state waters
one of the other sites or stories said 1%

also this ....
As part of that process, the government is taking advice from ‘stakeholders’ or people connected to the ocean for any reason (be it recreational or commercial), for their view on marine management. It is utterly crucial for everyone who has an interest in the future health of our oceans to have their say in this process
which is precisely what Abbott was suggesting and has been poo pooed for ??

Title: Re: The ELECTION Thread
Post by: wyzeguy60 on July 28, 2010, 07:22:22 PM
Abbott himself is saying it.  The very fact that the regions that are on the table right now for Marine Park status, are also two locations  where mining companies want access for unsustainable mining at any cost, tells me already that his penchant to disrupt marine reserves has nothing to do with fishing.

no argument from me if that is in fact what he ends up doing

Fishy yes, fishing no.  The very fact that he also 'WON'T' tax the mining companies when our National Infrastructure is crippling to breaking point, is also a fairly good indication of where his loyalties lie.

I don't in any way support the mining tax. I'll add the following extract from my letter to my local member on the issue.
" What I cannot understand is peoples desire to penalise our large mining companies. They pay royalties to their respective state governments, they pay company and payroll tax. They provide an enormous contribution to communities in terms of labour hire, amenities and community funds. They provide the equipment, buildings and expertise. They provide substantial export dollars which helps to balance imports. They provide infrastructure which in turn helps remote communities.
Lets just add another massive tax to this and the effect will be astronomical. Companies will invest far less and will down size or at worst cease to exist. Current and future exploration and investment may also cease. Jobs will be lost and exports will diminish. State revenue will fall and so will the states spending power. Unemployment will be a huge issue in effected areas and so will the drain on welfare. Money markets will tumble and so will your hard earned super. Commonwealth revenue will also fall from these sectors adding to an already obscene debt. In effect the resource tax will wipe out any benefit it creates in a very short time. The burden will then fall on you – the public – and other companies as new tax measures are bought in to cope with the shortfall. And all states and territories will suffer – not just the few who rely heavily on resources. If there is less revenue overall and a greater debt commonwealth funding to states will be reduced. This effects Hospitals, schools and other services as these cut backs are made. "

The fact that the guy can't even articulate an intelligent reply in a press conference without Hockey and another of the club there to hold his hand, and even then with three of them, still they couldn't do more than play the blame game?  Tells me he can't handle the top job.

No single individual knows everything about all aspects of Government - fact.

Did you actually Watch Julia Gillard answer questions this morning?  Intelligent open, and unscripted on every point.  She didn't need to consult anyone standing beside her.  Abbott by comparison was floundering, and couldn't string a sentence together that didn't include his negative sloganism or his entourage jumping in to save him?

No - can't stand her voice

As for judging someone on how they look?  How shallow is that?  I couldn't care less what Abbott Looks like, his complete lack of intelligence and ability to string two intelligent sentences together is what puts me off him.  Oh and the contradictions.  That too.

nobody said anything about her looks - not bad for a middle ager. see point above about voice.

 ;D
Title: Re: The ELECTION Thread
Post by: MrsFluffyDodgers on July 28, 2010, 07:29:09 PM
I would think it would be against the rules of Parliament to bring children in there.  Whatever would posses a woman to take her baby to work – and parliament at that – and set about publicly nurturing her child?  It was not the result of being forced into the position of feeding because there was nowhere else, like I occasionally found myself in.  It was a forced and contrived situation – unnatural.  In my humble and considered opinion, it would have been to make a point and an unnecessary one in those circumstances at that.  
As I recall, she had to attend an important vote in the house. The bells were rung necessitating her being there. I remember that there was a large deal of criticism pointed at her - regarding the care of her daughter. (She did have a carer - but this person could not provide feeding.)



'The Times They are a Changin' and I think that's a good thing.  No woman should be humiliated or ejected for breast feeding.  I'd stand up for any nursing mum being harassed over it.  Who wouldn't?

Various women I personally know, have returned to work shortly after having their child, in 'salaried professional positions', and on various occasions had to breast feed on the run.  (Modesty taken into account of course)   That's life.  

Good Evening Mr Loco.  It is likewise always wonderful to see you as well!  

Greetings Miss Rebel.  

Yes it is certainly not acceptable for any woman to be humiliated for breastfeeding.  …….  But that was not my actual point and not a situation that I found when I was feeding little Fluffy.   It is good and appropriate for other people (and ducks lol) to be considerate of a nursing mother.  But it is also appropriate for a woman (or duck) to consider others and how they may feel given the situation.  Give and take.   It should work both ways.  

And perhaps in the case of the woman sitting in parliament at that particular time she may have had no choice… or maybe she did.  But I do wonder why ever was she was trying to hold down a job like that at that time of her life – in parliament of all things - when she had chosen to have a child and had responsibilities to her child and would have known it was very possible she could be put in that situation.  They do have maternity leave to accommodate mothers, much of it paid.   The baby must have been very young to need an unexpected feed.  The other alternative would be to get the child minded and fed with expressed or substitute milk.  Still not the best for the child, but would have left the mother free to act as she wanted to without impacting others and potentialy the whole country in this case.

I can understand people taking their children into a workplace in the school holidays as long as they look after them and don’t put pressure in any way on their workmates.  I never did it, and would take leave or pay for minding, but I do understand it.)  

There is no place IMO whatever at any time in the work place for a baby (or duckling lol).  A baby needs total, continual and absolute care and a mother would know that before she took the baby in.

It’s called trying to have your cake and eat it too… and making other people responsible for your decisions, situation and actions.  We live in a selfish, self centred and demanding pond society.  
Title: Re: The ELECTION Thread
Post by: HellWest'nCrooked on July 28, 2010, 07:49:32 PM



  Good evening Mrs Dodgers.........my oh my you have a way with words....
  couldn't have put it better myself......... and I do like the part about  "mindful of others"


   Westie  :ivanhoe:
Title: Re: The ELECTION Thread
Post by: mandurahmum on July 28, 2010, 08:07:38 PM
The senator that was asked to take her child out of federal parliament was not breastfeeding - she just wanted to spend time with her 2 year child before it left for adelaide with her husband.  I know I have confused her with Kristy Marshall that was breastfeeding.

There was no reason for this child to be in chambers - although a lot of childish behaviour goes on there - it is no place for a child.

And Fluffee - I agree with everything you have said.  I breastfeed my son - and sometimes in public - but I dont think anyone ever noticed - because I was discrete.  I dont think any breastfeeding mother should ever be hassled about breast feeding in public.
Title: Re: The ELECTION Thread
Post by: Rebel*1* on July 28, 2010, 08:19:52 PM
I am not saying that there shouldnt be marine reserves I just dont think they need to declare somewhere like Margaret River a marine reserve just so it stops the mining coz it also stops a lot of other activities as well ...... they should just use common sense and if they dont want an oil rig there just say you aint putting an oil rig there .... simple as that .......no need to got to any other lengths

I completely agree and that's what I said earlier about the recreational fishing enthusiasts distancing themselves from commercial fishing and challenging the State Govts over their specific restrictions.  The Fed Govt has NOTHING to do with those fishery and waterways laws and in NSW they are now all under one department that everyone mutually hates.  LOL.  At least it's all in one place.

Unfortunately however, there are no specific laws that protect an area from mining in particular as far as I know, other than the Umbrella Marine Reserve Status Federally. That's the problem, it needs to be more specific, but it STILL won't change any of the recreational fishing regulations set down by State Govt Authorities if it isn't applied under Abbott.    It will however, enable Mining companies to exploit it if Tony scraps the current program, and that's just not on.   

In addition to that, and as Mum said, the local Govt have a vested interest in getting the balance right and they know the region.  So it should be up to them to manage the water ways not the Federal Govt.  But unless they have the laws to protect Margaret River 'in State', then it's over to the Feds to step in.

I'll see if I can find anything on whether they can stop mining without declaring a marine reserve.   Maybe the State Govt itself has a mechanism to do this, and would therefore be in control of it.  Then a Federal Reserve wouldn't be needed.   

Wyzeguy, as for the poor mining companies, forgive me for playing the worlds tiniest violin in their honour.  They're paying us $1.00 in $7.00 whereas they used to pay $1.00 in $3.00.  How is it that their share gets bigger and our share gets smaller?  They've had a free ride long enough.  Time to pay the piper.
Title: Re: The ELECTION Thread
Post by: mandurahmum on July 28, 2010, 08:30:29 PM
http://www.oceanplanet.org.au/national.php#wa

Whilst searching for info on the current process I have just found this site , and it seems to contradict things mentioned in other links and stories mentioned by us on this thread in relation to this , for example ....

Western Australia has thirteen multiple use marine parks, marine management areas and marine nature reserves, covering 11.7% of the state waters, with a high level of protection offered to 2.4% of the state waters
one of the other sites or stories said 1%

also this ....
As part of that process, the government is taking advice from ‘stakeholders’ or people connected to the ocean for any reason (be it recreational or commercial), for their view on marine management. It is utterly crucial for everyone who has an interest in the future health of our oceans to have their say in this process
which is precisely what Abbott was suggesting and has been poo pooed for ??



I find this website questionable.  If you click on the link to WA"S marine reserves - it takes you to the marine reserves for SA.

It does however say that you can fish in these areas too.
Title: Re: The ELECTION Thread
Post by: Rebel*1* on July 28, 2010, 08:42:52 PM
Western Australia has thirteen multiple use marine parks, marine management areas and marine nature reserves, covering 11.7% of the state waters, with a high level of protection offered to 2.4% of the state waters
one of the other sites or stories said 1%


There are State and Federal classifications the 1% is Federal Marine Reserves.  The other reserves are State declared and Administered:

Marine reserves extend to the WA State Waters boundary, generally 3 nautical miles offshore, but further where offshore islands exist. These marine reserves are covered by WA legislation.

Generally, the marine reserves are established under the WA Conservation and Land Management Act (CALM). Any restrictions to fishing within the marine reserve are specified under the WA Fish Resources Management Act (FRMA).

Other marine reserves may be in Commonwealth Waters which commence at the limit of State Waters and extend out to 200 nautical miles. These marine reserves are covered by Commonwealth legislation, generally the Commonwealth Environment Protection and Biodiversity Conservation Act 1999 (EPBC). Fishing restrictions are specified within the Management Plan for each marine reserve.


http://www.recfishwest.org.au/MarineParks.htm

BTW, the link above has a wealth of info on WA recreational fishing.  


Title: Re: The ELECTION Thread
Post by: Rebel*1* on July 28, 2010, 08:45:29 PM
I doubt therefore that a Fed Marine reserve in Commonwealth Waters that far out is going to have much impact on recreational fishing, unless you are fishing more than 3kms offshore.  How many do that? 
Title: Re: The ELECTION Thread
Post by: *Yibida* on July 28, 2010, 10:20:40 PM


This is the mob: http://www.vnpa.org.au/  Victorian National Parks Association

Despite the organization name they are in NO WAY connected to a government body of any kind..... It's an underhanded name to give the impression they are !... All very official looking { smoke and mirrors } no wonder the Polly's were peanut washed... all the reports from the marine investigation company they commissioned have been worded to there benefit... try getting the original reports that were handed to them ! good luck ! many from the fishing community have tried....

ask Geoff Wilson for the low down, he is a fantastic bloke who champions for the Victorian angler ... Geoff Wilson has successfully tackled many aspects of fishing, including land-based game fishing, of which he was one of the pioneers to fishing the rivers, inlets, bays and beaches of the western coastal regions of Victoria

Geoff is also the fishing writer for the Geelong Advertiser and is a regular contributor to a number of Fishing magazines and fishing related web sites, he has written many fine books which have proven to be very popular reading with thousands of anglers all over Australia. Of particular note is Geoff's excellent artistic flair for fishing illustrations featured in many magazines...

Geoff has been at logger heads on this issue from the start....as I have and many others working to get the truth out there...
Title: Re: The ELECTION Thread
Post by: mandurahmum on July 28, 2010, 10:57:28 PM
Yibs - that site does look deceptively like its a government organisation. 

I dont have much to do with fisheries wa over here - I only see them when they do their safety checks - which they seem to do every weekend.  They are fantastic - they just make sure you have all the safety equip and that you know the bag limits.  They also give out the rulers and guide to the fish and crabs.  They are also waiting at the dock when you have finished - just to make sure that you have not gone over the bag limit.  I have never seen them give out a fine so I assume most of us obey the rules.  You do see them in the Offshore fishing club a lot though - talking to the fishing community, and lying about the size of the fish they caught too.





Title: Re: The ELECTION Thread
Post by: *Yibida* on July 28, 2010, 11:03:09 PM


Yes mandurahmum... very deceptive in name and how they go about things....

Our Victorian Fisheries department have no affiliation with VNPA what so ever... No government body is connected with them either...
Title: Re: The ELECTION Thread
Post by: *wheels* on July 28, 2010, 11:33:27 PM
Evening all.

An election? Doesn't matter who you vote for you'll be electing a politician and no good will ever come of that.

I have nothing useful or relevant to add but I do have one question.

Yibs, is there really a Victorian parliamentarian named Joe Helper??
Title: Re: The ELECTION Thread
Post by: *Yibida* on July 28, 2010, 11:48:10 PM
Evening all.

An election? Doesn't matter who you vote for you'll be electing a politician and no good will ever come of that.

I have nothing useful or relevant to add but I do have one question.

Yibs, is there really a Victorian parliamentarian named Joe Helper??


Hi Wheelsie yes there is a Mr Helper.....

Damian Thompson | Departmental Liaison Officer
Office of Joe Helper MP
Minister for Agriculture
Minister for Small Business
t +61 (0) 3 9658 4146    f +61 (0) 3 9658 4671  e damian.thompson@minstaff.vic.gov.au
§ Please consider the environment before printing this e-mail.
Title: Re: The ELECTION Thread
Post by: *smee* on July 28, 2010, 11:53:08 PM
he has a dwarf son called Santas little
Title: Re: The ELECTION Thread
Post by: bnwt on July 29, 2010, 08:44:04 AM
Since the Debate leaders now equal on Job Approval – Gillard (46%) cf. Abbott (46%)
The gender gap is closing for Tony Abbott



http://www.roymorgan.com/news/polls/2010/4544/
Title: Re: The ELECTION Thread
Post by: *smee* on July 29, 2010, 09:17:46 AM
look at these poll results from the SMH ....questions aswered by a lot more people than Morgan ...
this is what I was saying a couple of weeks ago , using survey/poll results on such a small percentage of people is useless .... look at the vast difference in these polls and neither would actually probably be anywhere near acurate over the entire population ...but look at the prefered PM nearly 30,000 respondants

Do you think Julia Gillard is sincere?
Yes 15.12% (1490 votes)
No 84.88% (8366 votes)
Total votes: 9856

If the Federal Election was held today, which party would receive your first preference in the House of Representatives?
Labor 22.7% (977 votes)
Liberal 64.53% (2776 votes)
National 2.14% (92 votes)
Greens 5.79% (249 votes)
Independent or other 2.12% (91 votes)
None of them 2.72% (117 votes)
Total votes: 4302

Who would you rather have as PM?
Julia Gillard 21.58% (6285 votes)
Tony Abbott 78.42% (22845 votes)
Total votes: 29130
Title: Re: The ELECTION Thread
Post by: Rebel*1* on July 29, 2010, 12:06:20 PM
I wrote to Bob Brown last night and I'm reasonably sure he'll reply as I am on the Green mailing list.  (not because I'm a green voter, but because I like to keep up to date on environmental debates).   I'm also writing to the ALP today, to point out that their policies are not that much better than the opposition on Mining specifically, and ask why this particular issue isn't being mentioned in the lead up to the election by either party.  

I'm not arguing against mining, I'm enquiring as to why 'sustainable mining' and 'fair remuneration' isn't on the table so Australia itself can vote on this issue.  Particularly given the ALP's 'open door' policy on mining vs Tony Abbotts 'no tax on mining' over his dead political body approach.  The outcome of course is that Australia is being literally raped for her mineral resources, while being paid less than half as much in remuneration as 15 years ago?  How is that?  Who's really benefiting ?   Gee I wonder how we fund infrastructure upgrade?  doh !!!

If it comes to a question of who is benefiting the most by mining in Australia, its the mining companies, not everyday Australians footing the bill for a crippled infrastructure.  Then consider that it's OUR resources they are profiting by for a mere 'bag of beads', and it becomes obvious whose interests are at the forefront, for both major parties.

i.e. BOTH parties intend to give the Mining industry concessions but one party wants to remove all level of protection, and allow mining companies to keep getting away with short sheeting the Australian people in terms of remuneration.  

Let me reiterate for Wyzeguy, I'm referring these remarks and criticisms of both major parties 'On the Mining Issue' in particular.  Not on Political philosophies.  

If these mining companies are going to profit by many BILLIONS of dollars on the back of OUR resources, whilst our infrastructure is crippling after years of underfunding and short sheeting, then they should jollywell be made to pay a fair remuneration for it.

The Libs will give them even more concessions but no price rise?.  After all it was under the last Coalition (User Pay) govt. that the price dropped from $1.00 in $3.00 to $1.00 in $7.00.  So their 'User Pay' philosophy applies to us, but not the mining companies?  

At least the ALP has tried to make the mining companies pay their fair share and just look what happened?  (not that the ALP are innocent in all this, they're not, as I'll demonstrate below)

When the mining companies were challenged over more remuneration for our resources, They declared media war and undermined an elected PM  !!!  In effect they declared war on the interests of the Australian people.  Who else is that bloody powerful in this country?  Any country for that matter?

So, just to demonstrate I am as critical of ALP on their free for all access policy on mining specifically, as I am on Abbott's 'key to the coffers' approach, this article sets out the debate over Mineral resources vs Marine Sanctuaries currently.  You be the judge of whose interests are at the forefront.   The Australian People and our Infrastructure and Environment? or the Powerful Mining Industry ?

Oil lease threatens WA icon:
CORTLAN BENNETT
May 17, 2010
http://news.smh.com.au/breaking-news-national/oil-lease-threatens-wa-icon-greenies-20100517-v8x9.html

The waters off the coast are home to unique marine life and half the world's whale and dolphin species, the WA Conservation Council says.The rugged coastal region is under consideration by the federal Environment Department as a marine sanctuary.

But at the Australian Petroleum Production and Exploration Association (APPEA) conference in Brisbane on Monday, federal Resources Minister Martin Ferguson announced 31 new oil and gas exploration leases around the country, including two less than 90km off the Margaret River coast.

According to Nicol (WA Conservation Council) "The minister has jumped the gun on critical protection of the marine environment and his actions are in stark contrast to those of (US) President Barack Obama, who froze all new oil and gas approvals off the US within days of the Gulf spill."

Mr Nicol said that over the past 18 months, 76 oil and gas approvals had been made in Australian waters while no marine reserves had been declared.


Almost 20 per cent of WA's marine environment was already tied up in oil and gas leases, while less than one per cent was protected, he said.

World Wildlife Fund WA director Paul Gamblin said it beggared belief the federal government was opening new oil and gas leases while the Montara oil spill was still being investigated."We still don't know exactly what went wrong," Mr Gamblin said.

"To release all this new acreage post-Montara, and while there's still a massive oil spill happening in the Gulf of Mexico, is premature."Until you know otherwise, you have to assume that could happen anywhere."


A spokesman for Mr Ferguson said the Margaret River coastal area would still be evaluated as a marine reserve by the federal Environment Department but within the framework of existing oil and gas leases.

He said there was no conflict between the two.


So, while Ferguson throws open access to the powerful mining lobby, (which the Libs are thrilled about no doubt), Abbott goes one better.  He'll scrap any new mining tax, and the Australian people will only receive more than $1.00 in $7.00 over his dead political body apparently.

Which wrong is more right?
Title: Re: The ELECTION Thread
Post by: bnwt on July 29, 2010, 12:14:55 PM
smee

I have always noticed that any poll results in the SMH tend to be tilted to the left

if that is the case I'd hate to be julia

interestingly if you look at all the polls that are running in the various media sites they say much the same

but the poll results that really count are the ones in marginal seats and if the Penrith by election was any indication ... I'd hate to be julia

I am feeling more and more confident that the result on August 21 is going to be even more enjoyable then that of the 1996 election



Title: Re: The ELECTION Thread
Post by: Rebel*1* on July 29, 2010, 12:27:05 PM
LOL, I wouldn't get too cocky.   A few thousand in a poll is not representative of many millions of voters.  John Howard learned that in 2007, when we were 'never better off'.   Famous last words?
Title: Re: The ELECTION Thread
Post by: bnwt on July 29, 2010, 12:46:01 PM
Jakarta and Dili in the dark on talk of asylum centre progress

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/national-affairs/jakarta-and-dili-in-the-dark-on-talk-of-asylum-centre-progress/story-fn59niix-1225898194031

Julia Gillard's pension is $2000 a week

http://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/election/julia-gillards-pension-is-2000-a-week/story-fn5zm695-1225898203835

Swan frustrated by talk of rat in Labor ranks

http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2010/07/28/2967006.htm?site=news



it's death by a thousand cuts
Title: Re: The ELECTION Thread
Post by: bnwt on July 29, 2010, 01:49:10 PM
Gillard warns leakers: I'll sack you


lololololololollololololollolololololololololololol

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/national-affairs/gillard-warns-leakers-ill-sack-you/story-fn59niix-1225898443420
Title: Re: The ELECTION Thread
Post by: bnwt on July 29, 2010, 02:34:38 PM
some local colour

today when I went to my small local shop / post office there was much talk and praise for Beryl Gillard who happens to live just a few streets from me

her photo was in the Daily Telegraph with a story about julia gillard and the rise in the pension

it appears Beryl has become somewhat of a local celebrity with the following quote

Beryl Gillard, 83, from Pretty Beach on the Central Coast gets a part aged pension of $250 a week and a small "stipend" from her late husband's superannuation.

She was angry the PM was against increasing the aged pension by $30.

"She's a liar and a communist and we don't want communists in power," she said.
Title: Re: The ELECTION Thread
Post by: *Yibida* on July 29, 2010, 04:37:10 PM


I'm frustrated we don't have more choice in leadership, policy's and party's... It's like being given two short straws in a hand and asked to pick one...........  short straw you loose..
Title: Re: The ELECTION Thread
Post by: *smee* on July 29, 2010, 04:41:30 PM
perhaps we should launch the Amigo party


I see that Belinda Neal has decided not to stand for Robertson as an independant since the Labor party found a more suitable candidate ......what a piece of work this woman is .... I reckon if you knocked on her door she would bark at you ....
Title: Re: The ELECTION Thread
Post by: *Yibida* on July 29, 2010, 04:47:06 PM
perhaps we should launch the Amigo party


Oh sure smee... the most corrupted twisted self serving kinky abusive lawless rude threesome ever assembled.... and thats the quality's of just one Amigo....
Title: Re: The ELECTION Thread
Post by: *smee* on July 29, 2010, 04:51:31 PM
perhaps we should launch the Amigo party


Oh sure smee... the most corrupted twisted self serving kinky abusive lawless rude threesome ever assembled.... and thats the quality's of just one Amigo....

yeah guess you are right ....over qualified for the job
Title: Re: The ELECTION Thread
Post by: *Yibida* on July 29, 2010, 04:56:01 PM
perhaps we should launch the Amigo party


Oh sure smee... the most corrupted twisted self serving kinky abusive lawless rude threesome ever assembled.... and thats the quality's of just one Amigo....

yeah guess you are right ....over qualified for the job


Oh I forgot..... Depraved also....
Title: Re: The ELECTION Thread
Post by: bnwt on July 29, 2010, 06:00:15 PM
smee

a friend of mine happens to live next door to Belinda 'don't you know who I am' Neal

it has been claimed that the household is not the quietest in the street
Title: Re: The ELECTION Thread
Post by: *smee* on July 29, 2010, 06:01:48 PM
what .... lots of barking ?

(http://i144.photobucket.com/albums/r176/FBC1991/ugly_dog.jpg)
Title: Re: The ELECTION Thread
Post by: bnwt on July 29, 2010, 06:05:26 PM
Gillard defunds award winning solar science


http://www.theaustralian.com.au/news/breaking-news/gillard-defunds-award-wining-solar-science/story-fn3dxity-1225898620858
Title: Re: The ELECTION Thread
Post by: *r3830* on July 29, 2010, 07:56:01 PM

War hero's name dragged into boat people row




http://www.heraldsun.com.au/news/victoria/war-heros-name-dragged-into-boat-people-row/story-e6frf7kx-1225898253647 (http://www.heraldsun.com.au/news/victoria/war-heros-name-dragged-into-boat-people-row/story-e6frf7kx-1225898253647)
Title: Re: The ELECTION Thread
Post by: bnwt on July 30, 2010, 09:27:41 AM
the end is nigh

Save us: ALP's desperate plea to Kevin Rudd


http://www.smh.com.au/federal-election/save-us-alps-desperate-plea-to-kevin-rudd-20100729-10y4s.html
Title: Re: The ELECTION Thread
Post by: *r3830* on July 30, 2010, 09:38:55 AM
Geeeez bnwt,

While I wouldn't have voted for Mr Rudd anyway, (personally don't believe in ETS - or Internet gagging) I was absolutely disgusted with the way he was 'shat upon', by those people who were supposed to be his undeniable supporters just the day before. That just about did it for me as far as supporting Labor was concerned. I'm still convinced that Mr Rudd would have won the forthcoming election in his own right. Why would he want to assist these crooks now!
Title: Re: The ELECTION Thread
Post by: bnwt on July 30, 2010, 10:01:48 AM
loco


it just goes to show that a drowning man will grab at anything

one the main reason I want to see Labor loss is to see the back room faceless men go down in flames

I wished I had have video taped it at the time when at the last election during the nights coverage after it was clear that rudd had won, they were speaking to one of his back room spin masters and he said something like, "this is the beginning of a 10 year reign for rudd as PM"

I said to myself, "you are going to eat those words"
Title: Re: The ELECTION Thread
Post by: *r3830* on July 30, 2010, 11:55:45 AM
one the main reason I want to see Labor loss is to see the back room faceless men go down in flames

And aint that the truth!!!!!
Title: Re: The ELECTION Thread
Post by: *r3830* on July 30, 2010, 01:01:32 PM
What Does This Election Mean for the Homeless - or The Elderly?

I was inspired this morning - and bounced the following message off to our local Liberal member. I'll post her response.... if forthcoming.


While walking through Penrith this morning, I met a frail, elderly lady who asked me if I could spare a dollar. Perhaps I'm out of touch - but I haven't seen this happening in the Penrith area before. She was obviously quite uncomfortable in asking.. but she invokes the following thoughts..
MANY of the people out here are seriously finding life difficult. Perhaps she was one of the people who doesn't have a home - or can't afford her bills - or can't afford to eat.... or buy clothes... or pay for prescriptions. After the recent election in Penrith, there was much talk how the result was due to the boat people, an important issue, no doubt. But, what about OUR people - who live - or dare I suggest, survive here - day by day? Do these people matter in the scheme of things - or is it too large an embarrassment for anyone to consider? Am I able to ask you - what is the Liberal position regarding our elderly people? What do they have to look forward to?

The big picture is a wonderful thing - but, occasionally, it's important to step back into the box in order to see things closer at hand that are easily overlooked.

And - YES - she did find a couple of dollars... and not just from me I might add!
Title: Re: The ELECTION Thread
Post by: bnwt on July 30, 2010, 01:06:34 PM
(http://i289.photobucket.com/albums/ll208/bouddiebay/Screenshot2010-07-27at35644PM.jpg)
Title: Re: The ELECTION Thread
Post by: bnwt on July 30, 2010, 01:31:29 PM
an oldie but still relevant


http://youtu.be/wf3KovsW1Zo
Title: Re: The ELECTION Thread
Post by: bnwt on July 30, 2010, 01:59:29 PM
Stumbling Gillard spooked by spectre of Rudd


http://www.smh.com.au/federal-election/stumbling-gillard-spooked-by-spectre-of-rudd-20100730-10z1c.html
Title: Re: The ELECTION Thread
Post by: *r3830* on July 30, 2010, 02:22:18 PM
A "Faceless" Man!


In Richo's footsteps, Labor's new Mr Fix-it



http://www.smh.com.au/federal-election/in-richos-footsteps-labors-new-mr-fixit-20100729-10y5j.html (http://www.smh.com.au/federal-election/in-richos-footsteps-labors-new-mr-fixit-20100729-10y5j.html)
Title: Re: The ELECTION Thread
Post by: *smee* on July 30, 2010, 02:42:01 PM
for those that didnt get to see Calrke and Dawe last night

http://www.abc.net.au/7.30/content/2010/s2968230.htm

click on the video link in the right hand column
( typically funny as you would expect from these pair of clowns )
Title: Re: The ELECTION Thread
Post by: bnwt on July 30, 2010, 03:31:18 PM
a newie and even more relevant


http://youtu.be/yidl7o3hU0M
Title: Re: The ELECTION Thread
Post by: *r3830* on July 30, 2010, 03:38:12 PM
Thanks bnwt. I needed that. LOLOL

And this followed on on the 'tube

Labor's Deal With The Greens: A Carbon Tax Is Coming


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PRCw8fHfh7k (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PRCw8fHfh7k)
Title: Re: The ELECTION Thread
Post by: bnwt on July 30, 2010, 03:46:46 PM
(http://i289.photobucket.com/albums/ll208/bouddiebay/Screenshot2010-07-30at34103PM.png)
Title: Re: The ELECTION Thread
Post by: *smee* on July 30, 2010, 04:25:00 PM
a newie and even more relevant


http://youtu.be/yidl7o3hU0M

unfortunatley one of those pages that my pc just point blank refuses to open for some reason either through link or cut and paste of url into a new browser .....
Title: Re: The ELECTION Thread
Post by: bnwt on July 30, 2010, 04:29:46 PM
my electorate Robertson


http://www.smh.com.au/multimedia/federal-election/belinda-neal-calls-it-quits/20100729-10xnd.html
Title: Re: The ELECTION Thread
Post by: Rebel*1* on July 30, 2010, 04:40:54 PM
Gillard warns leakers: I'll sack you


lololololololollololololollolololololololololololol

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/national-affairs/gillard-warns-leakers-ill-sack-you/story-fn59niix-1225898443420

And so they should be, whatever party.  It breaches the law in some aspects, and on others, it completely breaches every oath of office.  So that's OK is it?  The very fact that the informant remains 'anonymous' and the information unsubstantiated, makes it not only destructive to the ALP, but to the Process of Govt and the Australian People themselves. 

Laurie Oaks should substantiate his story or retract it.  We all saw the Godwin Grech issue unfold almost by the same means, in a similar Liberal led ankle tap against Rudd.  How is this any different?   Like Oaks' political leanings are any secret? 

I think the guy needs to put up, or shut up.  I can't believe you at times bnwt.  You seem to think that 'the (unsubstantiated) end, justifies the means' in this issue.  i.e. that it's quite OK for a journalist to stop reporting the news and actually BECOME the news.  You also seem to overlook the fact that the informant if they exist, blatantly breached cabinet confidentiality with intent, and every oath of office in the process?   

The very act of breaching that confidence makes any Politician untrustworthy to their party, and therefore, it's quite reasonable to sack them.  For your info, if the informant comes forward, they could also be charged if Gillard pursues the issue.  Any wonder why they're not so brave when it comes to facing the consequence of their actions? 

It seems to me that the objections being leveled at Gillard on this thread are more to do with subjective issues, and negative media propaganda, and nothing to do with the election issues or the 'alternative' we're gonna get with Abbott.

e.g.  MM, don't expect any real debate over the M/river mining projects (2 of them actually) if Abbott gets in.  At the moment the ALP can't ignore their own policy on marine reserves and you at least have a hope of getting the M/River mining curtailed.  Under Abbott, the whole thing will be thrown out, and It will be a free for all , with the mining companies getting off scott free on fair remuneration. 

At least if people are going to put the boot in, try criticising Gillard on her skills as a leader and the election issues she's putting forward, vs what awaits us under Abbott. Not her hair colour, marital status, religious beliefs or anything else so thoroughly subjective and discriminative.  Tony Abbott is doing a good job of that already.

You do realise that a persons marital status, religious beliefs, sexuality (and anything similarly personal being dragged into this election by the Opposition leader), actually forms the basis for Discrimination in every State in Australia.  Indeed if any employer were to ask these things of an applicant or employee or discriminate against them in any way over these factors, they'd find themselves before an anti discrimination tribunal.   Abbott has no class even going there, it degrades the political system altogether.   

Those who think that is what constitutes a good leader, well, you're entitled to your vote and opinion, and I'm entitled to mine.   I can only hope the majority of Australians, look a bit deeper than media and opposition smear propaganda however, when casting their vote on issues of much greater National Significance.
Title: Re: The ELECTION Thread
Post by: bnwt on July 30, 2010, 04:49:34 PM
Rebel

my laughter was directly at ms gillard ........... it's easy to say "I'll sack you"

but firstly you need to know who it is that is leaking and more importantly     WHY   are they leaking

if she can't control her own party how the hell can she run the country
Title: Re: The ELECTION Thread
Post by: Rebel*1* on July 30, 2010, 04:57:30 PM


I'm frustrated we don't have more choice in leadership, policy's and party's... It's like being given two short straws in a hand and asked to pick one...........  short straw you loose..


Brilliantly summarised.  That's it in a nutshell.  Which wrong is more right?  If Pollies have election Slogans, then I'd say that's a good one for the voting party.  Us. 
Title: Re: The ELECTION Thread
Post by: Rebel*1* on July 30, 2010, 05:02:32 PM
Rebel

my laughter was directly at ms gillard ........... it's easy to say "I'll sack you"

but firstly you need to know who it is that is leaking and more importantly     WHY   are they leaking

if she can't control her own party how the hell can she run the country

bnwt, betrayals made on the basis of whatever personal gain this person (if they exist) might have been motivated by, are outside of the control of any leader.  It's down to the individual themselves.  If they can't trust themselves to have integrity and abide by the three oaths of office they took when they were entered into public office, then nobody else can trust them either, and they should be ejected from any cabinet.  

There are already enough deterrents in place, morally, ethically and even legally and STILL, this person (if they exist) made a PERSONAL choice to betray all of that to undermine a Federal Election outcome?  If we were talking about this 100 or so years ago,they'd probably be HUNG for treason.  

Title: Re: The ELECTION Thread
Post by: Rebel*1* on July 30, 2010, 05:05:52 PM
but firstly you need to know who it is that is leaking and more importantly     WHY    are they leaking

It HASN'T been proven that they are. This whole smear fest has been perpetuated on the basis of an 'anonymous' informant, based on UNSUBSTANTIATED allegations.  I at least expect evidence that the allegations are real before jumping on the Abbott slang wagon and hanging the accused (whether Gillard or the 'alleged informant) without a fair examination of the facts.

The first question to be asked in light of the Godwin Grech controversy is whether the source can be relied upon. 
Title: Re: The ELECTION Thread
Post by: *smee* on July 30, 2010, 05:08:04 PM
more than likely truth be known , the leaker has already been sacked , coz if it did happen , and there is no reason to believe it didnt or Laurie Oakes had a very clever guess that Julia queried the 2 things in question, then more than likely in was Rudd , and Labor would want to hope that it was him coz they already said they dont trust him so if its someone else then thats another party member they cant trust although labor do have a history that once they start sacking cabinet members then they usually go the full hog and have a decent flush out
Title: Re: The ELECTION Thread
Post by: Rebel*1* on July 30, 2010, 05:25:05 PM
If the informant were sacked smee, Laurie Oaks would be trying to 'be the news again' and plastering it all over the media.  No, she won't go 'flushing' the person out, but Fed Police will more than likely be looking into it as they did in the Grech affair.  I hope they throw the book at this person because they didn't assist the National Interest in this disclosure (if it's even real). This person has breached the law and undermined an election campaign.  It's not a good look and if anyone is going to be the bad guy, it's the 'informant'.  They have already 'hung' themselves by their own indiscretion.  

As for Gillard, she denied that she'd made the comment about the elderly voting Liberal as an argument against any increase outright, and unequivocably.  Now the accuser needs to PROVE that she made those remarks and show themselves, = facing the consequences of those devious actions.  

As for her questioning the increase to pensioners in Cabinet (as part of what she had a good faith belief in were 'CONFIDENTIAL' discussions) and as the deputy leader, not the leader at the time, her explanation seems perfectly reasonable to me.   I would expect any elected official to  apply economic costing to anything they intend to get behind.  You can't rob from Peter to Pay Paul was her message.  It had to be an affordable increase.   Fair enough right?  The POINT IS that pensioners got this increase, and no other Govt has ever done that before.  Do they deserve thanks for that at LEAST?

You don't seem to realise that if this kind of conduct is tolerated, it undermines the whole concept of Pollies voicing their real feelings against their own colleagues within the confines of confidence.  i.e. they won't be able to speak up for their constituents or real concerns, if it might come back to bite them.  In that regard this has undermined the very concept of Cabinet Confidence and the Political process itself.

Title: Re: The ELECTION Thread
Post by: *smee* on July 30, 2010, 05:29:23 PM
if the informant were Rudd .... he has already been sacked !

Title: Re: The ELECTION Thread
Post by: *smee* on July 30, 2010, 05:33:51 PM
As for her questioning the increase to pensioners in Cabinet (as part of what she had a good faith belief in were 'CONFIDENTIAL' discussions) and as the deputy leader, not the leader at the time, her explanation seems perfectly reasonable to me.   I would expect any elected official to  apply economic costing to anything they intend to get behind.  You can't rob from Peter to Pay Paul was her message.  It had to be an affordable increase.   Fair enough right?


yes fair enough if that is in fact what she was doing , but she has to say she is in favour of them now even if deep down she still isnt, becuase of this .....

Ministers are bound by a principle of Cabinet solidarity, meaning that once cabinet has made a decision, all ministers must publicly support and defend that decision, regardless of their personal views on the subject.[4]
Title: Re: The ELECTION Thread
Post by: Rebel*1* on July 30, 2010, 05:46:41 PM
if the informant were Rudd .... he has already been sacked !



"IF".  and exactly who's pushing that line?  Rudd has denied it emphatically and I believe him.  He knows that the Feds will be looking into it Smee.  He's simply NOT that stupid and NOT that emotionally motivated.  Rudd knows it would be political death.  It's not him.  But until Laurie Oaks stops trying to 'be the news' and gives some substance to this otherwise, deliberate undermining of an election campaign, then the public itself is being lied to.  By Oaks.  He should put up, or shut up.  What he's done is much more damaging to the National Interest.  If he can't prove it, I hope the Feds charge him too for his deliberate misuse of the media to push  his own political agenda without real evidence.   

This whole thing SMACKS of Liberal toe cutting, but Tony isn't up against Pauline Hanson this time is he?  He's up against someone ten times more articulate and STILL he's playing the same dirty politics? Please Explain? 
Title: Re: The ELECTION Thread
Post by: Rebel*1* on July 30, 2010, 05:50:26 PM
yes fair enough if that is in fact what she was doing , but she has to say she is in favour of them now even if deep down she still isnt, becuase of this .....

Well we won't know the truth it seems until 30 or 40 years from now when those cabinet documents are actually released to the public.  Nobody else can release them before then in light of 'CONFIDENTIALITY' laws.  sheesh.  lol.  We're only now reading about what Frazer really argued way back when in the original 'boat people' hysteria.  And he wasn't against them.  He was intelligent about the 'push' factors, and Australia's role in that war, and argued for a fair and reasonable resolution.  Wish I'd known that about him at the time.   It gave me a whole different dimension of Frazer as a humanitarian but 40 odd years later.
Title: Re: The ELECTION Thread
Post by: *smee* on July 30, 2010, 05:51:26 PM
This whole thing SMACKS of Liberal toe cutting

you keep saying that , but how would any of the liberals know that Julia queried these 2 things ? none of them were present at the cabinet meeting so therefore it must have been leaked by a labor member of cabinet or Laurie Oakes is a very good guesser .... an Wayne Swan admited that there was leaks by saying they were powerless to stop them .... and it was the third leak in a week or 2 so does someone guess right every time ????
Title: Re: The ELECTION Thread
Post by: *r3830* on July 30, 2010, 05:52:15 PM
An interesting discussion. From memory however, when Laurie Oakes was confronted with receiving his information from Kevin Rudd - his answer was that the accusers should be looking closer to home. Now just what did that mean? Was he referring to our new Deputy Leader? Was it someone from the factions that supported Mr Rudd - who had a serious problem (as I do in fact) with the way that Mr Rudd was 'destroyed'? And, who raised the matter of being 'Un-Australian'? The Australian way accepts a high element of risk - not jumping on a potential favourite for better odds. Just my opinion - but I believe the way Mr Rudd was treated to be totally un Australian. It also treats every single voting member of the community with complete contempt.... they being considered not bright enough to make their own decisions.
Title: Re: The ELECTION Thread
Post by: Rebel*1* on July 30, 2010, 05:53:40 PM
This whole thing SMACKS of Liberal toe cutting

you keep saying that , but how would any of the liberals know that Julia queried these 2 things ? none of them were present at the cabinet meeting so therefore it must have been leaked by a labor member of cabinet or Laurie Oakes is a very good guesser .... an Wayne Swan admited that there was leaks by saying they were powerless to stop them .... and it was the third leak in a week or 2 so does someone guess right every time ????

Smee, it stands to reason that Laurie Oaks obviously has vested interest in favouring one party over another.  Always has.  It's the smear campaign they have launched over it that I'm referring to.  No fact, no intelligence, no mention of the damage it causes, but no less capitalising on the superficial aspects only?  
Title: Re: The ELECTION Thread
Post by: Rebel*1* on July 30, 2010, 05:56:08 PM
An interesting discussion. From memory however, when Laurie Oakes was confronted with receiving his information from Kevin Rudd - his answer was that the accusers should be looking closer to home. Now just what did that mean? Was he referring to our new Deputy Leader? Was it someone from the factions that supported Mr Rudd - who had a serious problem (as I do in fact) with the way that Mr Rudd was 'destroyed'? And, who raised the matter of being 'Un-Australian'? The Australian way accepts a high element of risk - not jumping on a potential favourite for better odds. Just my opinion - but I believe the way Mr Rudd was treated to be totally un Australian. It also treats every single voting member of the community with complete contempt.... they being considered not bright enough to make their own decisions.

I may be misunderstanding you, but in the Grech affair, the Libs jumped on the band wagon of their being evidence of Rudd doing a 'handshake deal' with a car dealership = corruption in other words.  He didn't. Godwin Grech forged the documents that Turnbull held up as proof.  Egg on face?  Pays to wait until the source is verified don't ya think?  

http://www.smh.com.au/national/turnbull-silent-on-email-20090624-cwvs.html

btw loco, I don't disagree with the way Rudd was dispatched, he should have been allowed to run on his own merits.  BUT, that has nothing to do with Julia Gillard unless  anyone has evidence other than assumption, that it does.

At least view her on her own merits, not opposition sloganism and brain wash propaganda. 
Title: Re: The ELECTION Thread
Post by: *r3830* on July 30, 2010, 06:26:08 PM
BUT, that has nothing to do with Julia Gillard unless  anyone has evidence other than assumption, that it does.

Rebel, I agree with the above. It's a pity, but Julia is left holding the bundle - complements of the 'faceless' men.

The Grech affair was a bit different. The information presented by Grech was based on imagination - and as you suggest, the Libs gave it credibility. The 'leak' at the moment is based on fact - or why would Ms Gillard be spending soooo much time and effort putting it to rest.... or the party itself be baying for the blood of the person/s who leaked it? The pauses and delays add to credibility don't you think?

Irrespective whether these things happened in cabinet or not..... if they are blatantly incorrect - shouldn't the allegations be immediately denied? Or does the 'confidentiality clause' under cabinet deny the right of a person to natural justice? Put simply - If something is a lie - deny it!
Title: Re: The ELECTION Thread
Post by: Rebel*1* on July 30, 2010, 06:36:54 PM
an Wayne Swan admited that there was leaks by saying they were powerless to stop them .... and it was the third leak in a week or 2 so does someone guess right every time ????

Smee on the basis of 'unsubstantiated' claims that are affecting an election campaign? Clearly he can't know one way or another, so he has to assume (in the face of unsubstantiated allegations of a leak from Oaks) that there is a leak and act accordingly as if there is one.  This isn't a little thing you realise?  If there is a leak, then it's serious because someone breached the law and all 3 oaths of office with a clear intention of undermining the election process.  Nothing else.  That's rather devious and destructive to 22 million Australians isn't it in terms of their voting choice if these allegations turn out to be as equally fabricated as the Grech affair?  Misleading the Australian people with anonymous allegations that have direct impact on an election campaign is NOT a small matter.  As I said, 100 or so years ago, it would have been viewed as treason and it still is in my view.

If there isn't a leak and it's another Grech incident, then one must assume that the ALP will do everything in their power to uncover it and who was behind it, even in retrospect.  Someone is going to account for this, you can bet on it.  In fact it could end up being a much bigger controversy to the outcome of this election than you realise if it is uncovered later that the Libs had anything to do with this one.
Title: Re: The ELECTION Thread
Post by: Rebel*1* on July 30, 2010, 06:49:29 PM
The 'leak' at the moment is based on fact - or why would Ms Gillard be spending soooo much time and effort putting it to rest.

LOL really?  What 'fact' is based on an anonymous informant and no proof?  the morning the story broke it was a veritable feeding frenzy.  She had NO CHOICE but to address the issue as if it was true also realising that if it were true, the informant has a LOT to answer for, both legally, morally and in light of the oaths they took to uphold the duties of office.   She had no choice Because the Media were making the WHOLE election campaign about UNFOUNDED allegations leaked out of 'confidential' confines.  She's a lawyer you realise?  She does know that until the allegations are investigated (which no doubt is happening in the background), she has to dispel the obvious fact that some SHALLOW easily convinced Australians will jump to conclusions on the basis of Abbotts smear campaign style of politics.  Next thing you know, he'll be campaigning to have Julia thrown in jail over something.  Think it can't happen?  lol  It's called damage control in the face of unfounded allegations that are obviously designed to undermine the ALP and this election campaign.  What would you do?  ignore it?  She had not choice, but she's being attacked by 'gutless snipers'.  
Title: Re: The ELECTION Thread
Post by: bnwt on July 30, 2010, 06:52:44 PM
rebel

as a die hard labor supporter I am surprised to see you going on about ancient history like the Grech fiasco

surely you'd want to be "moving forward"
Title: Re: The ELECTION Thread
Post by: Rebel*1* on July 30, 2010, 06:58:57 PM
How cute.  Ancient history?  Nup, it was only a short while ago, when the LIbs were changing horses throughout the herd in midstream everytime a controversy rose? And you think there are no opposing FACTIONS within the Liberal party?  Oh please.   It's bullshit really because I happen to think that if Costello was running they might actually achieve credibility.  LOL  I would have liked to have known what he stood for, because I Know that he has a 'social conscience'  His brother demonstrates the complete opposite that is the Costello bunch.    But the Libs own ANONYMOUS POWER FACTIONS decided they didn't want someone that credible.  And you suppose me so die hard labour?  Nup, I've said it already, bit of both, right and left applied on all issues = balance -  Can't the opposition at LEAST give us a candidate worth voting for?

The Grech incident shows just how far down the Libs will stoop to discredit their opponents rather than debating them intelligently or checking their bloody facts before putting their collective foot in their mouth.   We've already seen the game they played with the Grech allegations they so heartily stood by.   I prefer someone who gets their FACTS straight in opposition so I have a choice.  In this election, I have none.  I have to choose the LESSER of two evils.  Liberals will not act on our behalf for FAIR remuneration for OUR resources, at the direct expense of our crippled infrastructure.   They've made that perfectly clear.  They WON'T tax the mining companies and yet there are 73 oil and gas contracts in the pipeline (pun intended) with a further 23 Uranium mines.  All for $1.00 in $7.00.  Get real, vote on whats good for Australia.  I dare ya.

In fact, I hope Julie releases those cabinet documents to vindicate herself, but then, she can't, SHE'D BE BREAKING THE LAW, and the oath of office and no doubt then, she'd be the villain? Talk about damned if ya do and damed if ya don't?  She has nowhere to move and yet you scream for accountability on the basis of anonymous allegations?   If she defends herself, she'll be breaching the same oaths herself.  She won't do that.    So what of this anonymous informant?  Is he/she as accountable as she surely would be and is, if she did the same in her own defense?  So therefore, she can't say anything until investigations of the issue are complete. She's a lawyer, as is Peter Garratt, so no doubt he'll also be vindicated on the insulation issue. He didn't approve the WRONG and UNSAFE  And trust me it WILL be investigated because it is impacting a Federal election and that's just dirty politics.
Title: Re: The ELECTION Thread
Post by: *r3830* on July 30, 2010, 07:16:22 PM
LOL really? Yes - really!

She had NO CHOICE but to address the issue as if it was true. No, not as if, but because it did turn out to be true. Hence - the press conference... and the explanation of how she's NOW seen the light - particularly where the increased pensions are concerned - and her previous objections to the increase. Yes - I know she's a lawyer - but, as a lawyer, she would be completely aware that any flaw... or slip... or pause... or incorrect statement  in a case brings the credibility of the whole case into doubt. 

It's called damage control in the face of unfounded allegations that are obviously designed to undermine the ALP and this election campaign.  What would you do?  ignore it?

The allegations were hardly unfounded - as she had to explain herself - and after an extensive time - come clean.

And - what would I do? One of two things... either explain myself - or deny the allegations. I'd place some credibility in the public to form their own opinions. And - she had precisely the same options.

Perhaps you might like to consider a further option...... The 'power brokers' do not want Kevin Rudd to have anything to do with the ALP, other than to win them an election - and then clear off. Ms Gillard has publicly promised him a place on the front bench - subject to winning the next election. In order to undo that promise - a well placed smear campaign perhaps? Discredit the person further perhaps? Create and enhance a public perception of distrust against him perhaps? Offering unsubstantiated allegations against the person might just achieve the result - with minimal collateral damage to the image of the party! Ms Gillard can then justify why she is not going to keep her promise.

Remember one thing..... Mr Rudd has denied providing this information. It is the ALP - not the public - who continue the rhetoric that he is guilty!


Title: Re: The ELECTION Thread
Post by: Rebel*1* on July 30, 2010, 07:32:27 PM
LOL really? Yes - really!

She had NO CHOICE but to address the issue as if it was true. No, not as if, but because it did turn out to be true. Hence - the press conference... and the explanation of how she's NOW seen the light - particularly where the increased pensions are concerned - and her previous objections to the increase. Yes - I know she's a lawyer - but, as a lawyer, she would be completely aware that any flaw... or slip... or pause... or incorrect statement  in a case brings the credibility of the whole case into doubt. 

It's called damage control in the face of unfounded allegations that are obviously designed to undermine the ALP and this election campaign.  What would you do?  ignore it?

The allegations were hardly unfounded - as she had to explain herself - and after an extensive time - come clean.

And - what would I do? One of two things... either explain myself - or deny the allegations. I'd place some credibility in the public to form their own opinions. And - she had precisely the same options.

Perhaps you might like to consider a further option...... The 'power brokers' do not want Kevin Rudd to have anything to do with the ALP, other than to win them an election - and then clear off. Ms Gillard has publicly promised him a place on the front bench - subject to winning the next election. In order to undo that promise - a well placed smear campaign perhaps? Discredit the person further perhaps? Create and enhance a public perception of distrust against him perhaps? Offering unsubstantiated allegations against the person might just achieve the result - with minimal collateral damage to the image of the party! Ms Gillard can then justify why she is not going to keep her promise.

Remember one thing..... Mr Rudd has denied providing this information. It is the ALP - not the public - who continue the rhetoric that he is guilty!




No actually she didn't confirm anything. And how are these allegations from an anonymous informant true without evidence?  Ask any law enforcement type.  I'm sure they're refraining because they don't want to cause dissent, but they KNOW that allegations do NOT constitute FACT. 
Title: Re: The ELECTION Thread
Post by: Rebel*1* on July 30, 2010, 07:34:04 PM
btw, if she DIDN'T hold a press conference, refuting the defamatory allegations, and explaining her true position at the time as an independently elected official, in her own right,  no doubt she'd be getting 'damned' for that too?  Of course she addressed them and said what she'd actually argued without divulging 'CABINET CONFIDENCE'  which she clearly respects and Abbott doesn't as he demands that she breaches the oaths of office  in her own defense?  Dirty politics. He KNOWS she can't defend herself.  He's a toe cutter.  plain and simple.
Title: Re: The ELECTION Thread
Post by: *r3830* on July 30, 2010, 07:44:50 PM
Did you see her press conference? Did you not hear her explanation of how she was against the rise in pensions - because she was unsure that the government could afford it? Wouldn't that have been the Treasurer's concern.... or was Ms Gillard honourary Treasurer for a day - on that day?

btw, if she DIDN'T hold a press conference, refuting the allegations

She 'refuted the allegations' with what were her facts in the matter, that yes - she was initially against the idea..... however.....  Again - not unsubstantiated.

How about the spin...... people will consider her more fiscally responsible with this story - won't they.
Title: Re: The ELECTION Thread
Post by: shyer on July 30, 2010, 07:49:39 PM
Lets look at some facts. Who loses their UN seat / ambasodore role they want if they are caught leaking? yep 07. Who had a great important well paid  interesting job one day and centerlink que the next morning? that right 07 staff / boot lickers.

And who has the most to gain and the least to lose? Who supported rudd the dud to the end? Who was At all the meetings other people weren't? Who is resigning and can not be sacked? Who has a fat pension for life come what may?

Falkner is the only one with motive, opportunity, a no lose position and an axe to grind.
Title: Re: The ELECTION Thread
Post by: *r3830* on July 30, 2010, 07:53:18 PM
That's another option shyer..... and there's no reason in the world why you couldn't be correct!

(Good to see you by the way!!)
Title: Re: The ELECTION Thread
Post by: Rebel*1* on July 30, 2010, 08:23:50 PM
Did you see her press conference? Did you not hear her explanation of how she was against the rise in pensions - because she was unsure that the government could afford it? Wouldn't that have been the Treasurer's concern.... or was Ms Gillard honourary Treasurer for a day - on that day?

btw, if she DIDN'T hold a press conference, refuting the allegations

She 'refuted the allegations' with what were her facts in the matter, that yes - she was initially against the idea..... however.....  Again - not unsubstantiated.

How about the spin...... people will consider her more fiscally responsible with this story - won't they.

Loco, Yes I watched, others avoided it because they don't like her tone of voice.  I admired her sheer intelligence and strength of Character by comparison to her gutless detractors.  The interview with Abbott shortly after was 'brain numbing' by comparison.  She NEVER said she was AGAINST anything.   She said that she was for it, but she wasn't making an EMOTIVE decision.  It had to be fiscally achievable.  She NEVER said she was against it.  In fact, as with the Caldicott example, do I have to post her resume so you understand what Julia Gillard HAS ALWAYS stood for?  Remember the misconception that social responsibility in a title deserved ignorance and disdain from one post in particular? What's in a name?

When that same organisation involved 23,000 doctors? and an international offshoot that achieved the NOBEL PEACE PRIZE in the 80's?  Commies?  Leftists?  How shallow and propaganda hungry can anyone get?  The least anyone can do is QUESTION the obvious.  Is the King wearing Magical clothes?  Or is he NAKED ?
Title: Re: The ELECTION Thread
Post by: Rebel*1* on July 30, 2010, 08:33:40 PM
SHE WASN'T AGAINST IT.  She was actually for it, but if you have to rob Peter to Pay Paul to fund it,  (while the mining companies undermine the elected Govt to avoid paying their fair share), then it ISN'T fiscally responsible, however deserving.  Hey, here's a novel idea.  Let's say the mining companies pay their fair share and fund infrastructure in return for OUR resources, and fund the increase in pensions.  = problem solved.  AUSTRALIA'S OWN WEALTH can fund most things, if only the Australian people could get someone to TAX the mining companies for OUR fair share.     I have no doubt under a liberal Govt, in a few years we're going to hear reports of Australia's 200 richest earning RECORD profits on OUR mineral resources, while WE pay for the infrastructure that HOWARD ignored for years and which Abbott intends to perpetuate.  Mark my words, under Abbott, in two years we're going to hear reports of Australia's richest achieving RECORD profits under the Libs, while Rome Burns.   Oh and we'll no doubt be getting told.  We've never been better off? 
Title: Re: The ELECTION Thread
Post by: *r3830* on July 30, 2010, 08:47:41 PM
She said that she was for it, but she wasn't making an EMOTIVE decision. It had to be fiscally achievable. 


(....... and the elderly don't vote labor anyhow!)


Again, wouldn't that have been the Treasurer's concern.... or was Ms Gillard honourary Treasurer for a day - on that day? Or, perhaps she believed the 'then' treasurer as an incompetent? It's all about spin!


SHE WASN'T AGAINST IT.  She was actually for it, but if you have to rob Peter to Pay Paul to fund it,

I see - so that's why her new deal with the big 4 mining companies (excluding those smaller 'stick in the mud' companies that are resuming their anti labor advertising) included returning $9 Billion to them. Was that robbing Peter..... or paying Paul???
Title: Re: The ELECTION Thread
Post by: Rebel*1* on July 30, 2010, 08:50:33 PM
Irrespective whether these things happened in cabinet or not..... if they are blatantly incorrect - shouldn't the allegations be immediately denied?

No, she can't without breaching the same oaths and the same confidence.  You have to understand how the law works.  If Abbott is elected, this is going to be the 'Skeleton in his closet of credibility' and it WILL come back to haunt him.   I truly hope Laurie Oaks is SUED for compromising this election.  He is thoroughly NEGLIGENT in his 'abuse of media power' without substance or FACT.   He made the allegations public, It's up to him to prove his destructiveness to this election or account for it.  Talk about arrogance.
Title: Re: The ELECTION Thread
Post by: Rebel*1* on July 30, 2010, 08:54:35 PM
She said that she was for it, but she wasn't making an EMOTIVE decision. It had to be fiscally achievable.  


(....... and the elderly don't vote labor anyhow!)


Again, wouldn't that have been the Treasurer's concern.... or was Ms Gillard honourary Treasurer for a day - on that day? Or, perhaps she believed the 'then' treasurer as an incompetent? It's all about spin!


SHE WASN'T AGAINST IT.  She was actually for it, but if you have to rob Peter to Pay Paul to fund it,

I see - so that's why her new deal with the big 4 mining companies (excluding those smaller 'stick in the mud' companies that are resuming their anti labor advertising) included returning $9 Billion to them. Was that robbing Peter..... or paying Paul???

Loco, how can you be that blind?  'The elderly don't vote for labour' anyhow?  'Do you suppose our elders so shallow in light of their history of past Govts pissing in their pockets?    You are making a decision based on PROPAGANDA and HEARSAY.  Just how objective would you expect anyone to view that?  I say PROVE IT.  Don't assume.  this is an election. All that unsubstantiated shite aside, you have to concede that if mining companies were FORCED to pay more than $1.00 in $7.00, we could fund NATIONAL improvements.  Getting the picture yet?  Who's really running this country at our expense. ???  God help  the Afghani people if we're any example.  They can expect to be literally raped for their resources.  Just like us  Let's vote on $3.00 in $7.00- at the very least in return for OUR resources, so we can fund NECESSARY infrastructure upgrade.  Do you find that unreasonable?  Well Abbott wants to OPPOSE any tax on mining.  Hero?  or Nero fiddling while rome burns? The resources belong to the Australian people and we need infrastructure investment.  You figure it out mate at $1.00 in $7.00 that Johnny made possible for them in the first place?

Title: Re: The ELECTION Thread
Post by: *r3830* on July 30, 2010, 09:04:36 PM
Rebel - You keep mentioning "without substance or FACT".

Ms Gillard herself, by her own admissions, provided substantiation of these facts. The only assumptions being made at the present time - are where this information came from - not the content - but the source/s.

Laurie Oakes - or any other journalist for that matter is not required to reveal his / their source/s.

As far as his negligence is concerned - many crimes are solved by anonymous information. It's actually encouraged - refer to Crimestoppers.



(....... and the elderly don't vote labor anyhow!)

Loco, how can you be that blind?

The above part quote is not my words - or belief for that matter. It was a comment attributed to Ms Gillard when she had an issue with increasing pensions. If you want proof - ask Ms Gillard..... her words - not mine.

Title: Re: The ELECTION Thread
Post by: *smee* on July 30, 2010, 09:15:43 PM
(....... and the elderly don't vote labor anyhow!)

I went in search of some info on this and found this

Newspoll chief executive officer, Martin O'Shannassy, said older voters historically favoured the coalition.

"Latest Newspoll figures from April to June this year show 45% of over 50s support the coalition compared with 37% for Labor


Now I dont believe in the accuracy of polls where they poll only a small number of people but some here do when it suits their arguement .... the article I copied that info from didnt say how many people those results were based on  , but there they are nevertheless ... read into those figures what you will  
Title: Re: The ELECTION Thread
Post by: *r3830* on July 30, 2010, 09:26:26 PM
Labor in damage control over Cabinet leaks  (apologies bnwt - you probably posted this a couple of days ago)


Ms Gillard reportedly told her colleagues, "the idea that the scheme would be a political winner was misconstrued" because "women beyond child-bearing age would resent it, as would stay-at-home mothers".

It has also been reported that Ms Gillard had concerns about the size of the increase given to pensioners at the time.

The source says while Ms Gillard did not oppose the rise, she queried the $14 billion cost, on the grounds that elderly voters did not support Labor.


http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2010/07/28/2965988.htm (http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2010/07/28/2965988.htm)

As mentioned - her words - not mine.
Title: Re: The ELECTION Thread
Post by: Rebel*1* on July 30, 2010, 09:33:02 PM
Rebel - You keep mentioning "without substance or FACT".

Ms Gillard herself, by her own admissions, provided substantiation of these facts. The only assumptions being made at the present time - are where this information came from - not the content - but the source/s.

Laurie Oakes - or any other journalist for that matter is not required to reveal his / their source/s.

As far as his negligence is concerned - many crimes are solved by anonymous information. It's actually encouraged - refer to Crimestoppers.



(....... and the elderly don't vote labor anyhow!)

Loco, how can you be that blind?

The above part quote is not my words - or belief for that matter. It was a comment attributed to Ms Gillard when she had an issue with increasing pensions. If you want proof - ask Ms Gillard..... her words - not mine.



You know what loco, I can thoroughly assure you that in a civil defamation suit (which I think Julia should consider if this unsubstantiated breach of parliamentary confidence loses her this election), Abbott and Oaks would probably lose on the balance of EVIDENCE for their destructive influence on this election based on NO evidence. You keep going on that there is some.  Where?  Who is the informant?  What are the specifics?  Do you know? or are you believing PROPAGANDA?  It's our responsibility to question the claims of EVERY politician, but you think that we should just believe the propaganda of 'power mongers'  without even questioning the whats the wherefores?  Objective?  not in my books.  though I do respect your opinion and your courtesy in debate.  Thanks for that loco.  I see and believe that We can disagree and discuss without the 'previous' subjective name calling *(which you were not part of )  Thank you for being objective and courteous
Title: Re: The ELECTION Thread
Post by: *r3830* on July 30, 2010, 09:35:17 PM
$1.5m for climate chiefs

Ahh - A reasonable cost for federally funded brainwashing.... or would that be better described as coercion?

THE five climate change experts Julia Gillard hopes to inform public opinion on the issue will be paid an average of $300,000 a year.

Further detail on the government's heavily criticised attempt to build a community consensus on climate change have emerged in Labor's official request for costings from the Treasury. It reveals the $6 million Climate Change Commission will have five commissioners, each earning an average of $300,000, in line with the mid-point of pay guidelines set by the Remuneration Tribunal.



http://www.theage.com.au/federal-election/15m-for-climate-chiefs-20100729-10y1x.html
Title: Re: The ELECTION Thread
Post by: *r3830* on July 30, 2010, 09:39:38 PM
Rebel - I enjoy a debate as well. I'm certainly NOT critical of your thoughts and opinions - mind you, occasionally, yours differ from mine. But that is a good and healthy thing I believe. Please don't misinterpret my comments as a personal attack against you..... that's certainly not my intention. Your views are just as valid as anyone else's here!

Title: Re: The ELECTION Thread
Post by: Rebel*1* on July 30, 2010, 09:41:16 PM
Well excuse me?  what is Abbotts alternative in terms of taxing the main polluters who are supplied by the mining industry?  ie. coal, we're rich in it, and yet, we are facing 64% increase?  get real.. WE OWN THE RESOURCES to pay the piper and we're being literally raped over it.  Poor widdle mining industry?  
Title: Re: The ELECTION Thread
Post by: Rebel*1* on July 30, 2010, 09:47:05 PM
Rebel - I enjoy a debate as well. I'm certainly NOT critical of your thoughts and opinions - mind you, occasionally, yours differ from mine. But that is a good and healthy thing I believe. Please don't misinterpret my comments as a personal attack against you..... that's certainly not my intention. Your views are just as valid as anyone else's here!



Hey Loco, exactly, this ain't war, such as the Aussie people are funding under false pretenses for the mining industry yet again in Afghanistan on this round.  We deserve fair remuneration for OUR resources, no matter who is in govt.  can we agree on that much? It will ultimately take the pressure off taxpayers (i.e you and I), while our own resources pay for the things we will otherwise be stitched for.  REalistically Loco, We are the Australian people, irrespective of political leanings, and our own wealth could upgrade this country in a few years if we all just agree on that much.  We  need to be campaigning (liberal or labour) for fair remuneration to relieve us of that burden.  Don't you think?  like $3.00 in $7.00.  Put that to the people as an OVERRIDING election imperative.  I know how we'd all vote.  Let's fund it from our own resources and screw the mining interests yes?  

Again, thank you for your courtesy.  I do appreciate your thoughtfulness to a differing point of view . Yes really.  lol
Title: Re: The ELECTION Thread
Post by: *r3830* on July 30, 2010, 10:03:14 PM
As regards Mining - I'm probably as far removed from that as can be. Mr Rudd's initiative without compromise I believed to be a good one - mainly on the basis of the views of manduramum, who is in the thick of things in WA. But, since the matter has raised its head, I note that a lot of investment has been withdrawn, which will affect jobs and development of infrastructure in this country. I also noted the backlash against Mr Rudd from places like Mt Isa - in his own state. It was also mentioned that the increase, in many ways would be passed back down the line to the consumer - higher energy / gas costs. Not altogether different to a price rise at Coles - which inevitably, finds its way to all of us. So, at the moment, I suppose I'm fence sitting on this one.... watching in interest you might say. does leave me wondering about the relief from tax burden.... or is it just out of the other pocket?

Title: Re: The ELECTION Thread
Post by: Rebel*1* on July 30, 2010, 10:12:03 PM
As regards Mining - I'm probably as far removed from that as can be. Mr Rudd's initiative without compromise I believed to be a good one - mainly on the basis of the views of manduramum, who is in the thick of things in WA. But, since the matter has raised its head, I note that a lot of investment has been withdrawn, which will affect jobs and development of infrastructure in this country. I also noted the backlash against Mr Rudd from places like Mt Isa - in his own state. It was also mentioned that the increase, in many ways would be passed back down the line to the consumer - higher energy / gas costs. Not altogether different to a price rise at Coles - which inevitably, finds its way to all of us. So, at the moment, I suppose I'm fence sitting on this one.... watching in interest you might say. does leave me wondering about the relief from tax burden.... or is it just out of the other pocket?



Here we go with the 'bag of beads' shite again?.  Ask the Indigenous people how they feel about that mentality?  We call it jobs.  lol.  whatever, same shite different century.  Christ loco, propaganda again?  Far removed from the actual source of our future infrastructure funding without punters paying for it?  i.e. self funding?    "we  are MINERAL RICH.  labour or liberal, that's a bloody fact. We deserve FAIR return for our own resources.  and those resources, even while in the ground are RICH in return and will nonetheless fund infrastructure upgrade NATION WIDE..  no offense but you don't get it. These resources belong to us.  YOU AND I, irrespective of our political leanings.    Whether they stay in the ground or not on market forces is irrespective. THEY REMAIN VALUABLE whilst unexploited.  lol and hey relieve us of the burden of infrastructure liberal labour, green whatever.  For god sake vote on the future of this country, based on our OWN wealth funding it.  We're Aussies, let's all fight together to get our own resources to fund infrastructure upgrade at least?
Title: Re: The ELECTION Thread
Post by: wyzeguy60 on July 30, 2010, 10:18:28 PM
We  need to be campaigning (liberal or labour) for fair remuneration to relieve us of that burden.  Don't you think?  like $3.00 in $7.00.  Put that to the people as an OVERRIDING election imperative.  I know how we'd all vote.

except me - lol
Title: Re: The ELECTION Thread
Post by: Rebel*1* on July 30, 2010, 10:27:08 PM
Oh ok, so you think the mining companies should be allowed to continue to extort the Australian people and our infrastructure over the price they pay for our resources, while our infrastructure crumbles?  'What a hero you are in the name of the GREATER good?  I for one will vote for someone who wants to exploit the mining companies as they exploit us so this country can finally grow on the back of ITS OWN wealth.
Title: Re: The ELECTION Thread
Post by: Rebel*1* on July 30, 2010, 10:56:48 PM
What's up Wyzeguy?  can't figure out an argument yet as to why average Aussies should foot the bill for MUCH NEEDED infrasctucture via fair returns on our collective wealth ?  Can you possibly find an argument to convince anyone (labour lib or otherwise), that we should assume a forward position to be screwed over otherwise?  In any argument on a FAIR return for our resources for instance?  Bite me mate, I want my share devoted to infrastructure investment, so sue me.  Oh forgot, that makes me a left wing commie for seeing the forest for the trees?  Then so be it buddy.  Argue FAIR return to the Aussie people I dare's ya.
Title: Re: The ELECTION Thread
Post by: wyzeguy60 on July 30, 2010, 11:59:23 PM
What's up Wyzeguy?  can't figure out an argument yet as to why average Aussies should foot the bill for MUCH NEEDED infrasctucture via fair returns on our collective wealth ?  Can you possibly find an argument to convince anyone (labour lib or otherwise), that we should assume a forward position to be screwed over otherwise?  In any argument on a FAIR return for our resources for instance?  Bite me mate, I want my share devoted to infrastructure investment, so sue me.  Oh forgot, that makes me a left wing commie for seeing the forest for the trees?  Then so be it buddy.  Argue FAIR return to the Aussie people I dare's ya

what a crock of shite.
Who underpins our economy. I gave you a copy of my letter to my local member the other day ( labor candidate ) and it clearly explains what happens if you curtail the mining sector by over taxing it. You jump down everybody's throat if they disagree and mock them - well i don't appreciate that one bit. You cannot be argued with and are one of the people I dread meeting when talking politics. YOUR VIEW AND FLOCK EVERYBODY ELSE ATTITUDE.
Mining underpins the economy and has done for decades.
You have also quoted incorrect figures on taxation and I would appreciate if you could correct these. International mining corporations pay 1 in 7 or 13 % to be exact. Australian operated mining companies pay 17 %. They ( all mining companies ) also pay 80 cents in the tonne in royalties to state governments as well as payroll tax. In WA alone last year this generated 2.6 Billion dollars to the state of WA.
They are the people who invest billions of dollars to extract the raw product - why should the government reap anymore. If the government needs a super tax on mining to save it's neck from it's utterly obscene spending spree over the last few years - 100 billion in debt and growing by 100 million a day - utterly obscene.

Now if you over tax mining they will go elswhere, down size or restrict their activities and 10's of thousands of jobs will go with it. Blind freddie can even see that.

And where did I call you a left wing commie cupcakes - certainly starting to sound like one. I am a capitalist and proud of it.

Oh and BTW - Krudd spent the infrastructure fund in his first 10 months of Government - gave it away - all 21 billion of it. Gawd I cannot understand how quickly people forget what a great place this was under Johnnie - life was never better.

 ;D

oh here is a copy of my letter if you failed to read it last time

" What I cannot understand is peoples desire to penalise our large mining companies. They pay royalties to their respective state governments, they pay company and payroll tax. They provide an enormous contribution to communities in terms of labour hire, amenities and community funds. They provide the equipment, buildings and expertise. They provide substantial export dollars which helps to balance imports. They provide infrastructure which in turn helps remote communities.
Lets just add another massive tax to this and the effect will be astronomical. Companies will invest far less and will down size or at worst cease to exist. Current and future exploration and investment may also cease. Jobs will be lost and exports will diminish. State revenue will fall and so will the states spending power. Unemployment will be a huge issue in effected areas and so will the drain on welfare. Money markets will tumble and so will your hard earned super. Commonwealth revenue will also fall from these sectors adding to an already obscene debt. In effect the resource tax will wipe out any benefit it creates in a very short time. The burden will then fall on you – the public – and other companies as new tax measures are bought in to cope with the shortfall. And all states and territories will suffer – not just the few who rely heavily on resources. If there is less revenue overall and a greater debt commonwealth funding to states will be reduced. This effects Hospitals, schools and other services as these cut backs are made. "
Title: Re: The ELECTION Thread
Post by: mandurahmum on July 31, 2010, 12:16:19 AM
I still say you cant trust mining companies to do the right thing because they dont - they put money ahead of safety

http://www.perthnow.com.au/news/western-australia/cyclone-death-probe-begins/story-e6frg13u-1111113144697 (http://www.perthnow.com.au/news/western-australia/cyclone-death-probe-begins/story-e6frg13u-1111113144697)

I wonder how the families of the dead workers feel about fortescue mining now.  Lets not also forget that these families have not been offered compensation.  But it was only 3 years ago.  

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/business/mining-energy/fortescue-miner-goes-to-trial-over-cyclone-death/story-e6frg9df-1225859084618 (http://www.theaustralian.com.au/business/mining-energy/fortescue-miner-goes-to-trial-over-cyclone-death/story-e6frg9df-1225859084618)

I also wonder if he employed the 50,000 aboriginals that he promised to Rudd in 2008 - No of course he did not.


And he has the audacity to complain about the mining tax - it might hurt his business - well how about the 2 people who died - because he failed to evacuate them - and failed to properly secure the accomodation blocks.

Yeah I feel so bad for twiggy


Title: Re: The ELECTION Thread
Post by: *FluffyDuckee* on July 31, 2010, 12:41:02 AM
Hi there MM.

Yes the mining companies can't be trusted to look after their workers and I think Wyzie does have a point re the upholding of our economy.

The mining companies do underpin our economy.  I'm no economist (although I did do economics as part of my MBA), but I suspect the only reason Australia did OK in the financial crisis was because of our mined wealth.

Yes without a doubt,  mines do sometimes put their workers health in danger...  but so do many and most other companies.  That is why we have OH & S laws.  

In spite of those laws OH & S issues are still rife all around Australia every day caused by all kinds of businesses.  In my job, because I am a consultant and not considered long term at the place I have been put, (even though I have been engaged for a year lol), I don't have a proper desk.  I have power cords running under my feet and I have the best desk in the crowded project room I am in.  Most people are doubled up and have even more cords under their feet.

Someone close to me recently worked for a company for a few weeks and the floors and kitchen and toilet were filthy.  Workers were put in physical danger every single day.  They were forced to load heavy weights without cranes, no protective equipment was provided in any way, things were left all over the floor etc etc.  On one day alone, they nearly tripped over a beam left in the middle of the floor.  They were forced to stand for 12 hours a day and only paid for much less.  No chair.  (The owner had a chair)  The lunch break was joke and they would have one bite and then be expected run and answer the phone every time it rang.  Sandwiches were left festering for days and weeks on the tea room table, covered with flies.  He witnessed two workers nearly being crushed by a huge generator.

The manager didn't care and probably didn't realise that he is personally liable and can be personally sued and is in danger of losing his house, incurring a huge fine and going to jail.  And this is not a civil reckoning.  The government will take him to task.  Yes this is in Australia.  Melbourne.  A couple of months ago.

But yes, many companies try to get away with as much as they can.  And so do people.  It is human nature.  Bottom line is the almighty dollar as you have correctly pointed out.  Whilst it is unacceptable for mining companies to endanger their employees many employees know the dangers when they apply and get paid extra because of it.
Title: Re: The ELECTION Thread
Post by: *smee* on July 31, 2010, 12:50:50 AM
I also wonder if he employed the 50,000 aboriginals that he promised to Rudd in 2008 - No of course he did not.

MM here is a site which shows the progress with this scheme ...I havent studied it at length but it appears to be heading in the right direction from what I can gather at first glance .......

http://www.fiftythousandjobs.com.au/
Title: Re: The ELECTION Thread
Post by: mandurahmum on July 31, 2010, 01:41:44 AM
Smee - just over 20,000 in 2.5 years is not much.  

Fluffy - I am not against mining - I live near an Alcoa mine - and you wont hear me complaining about them - because they have been operating for so long - they do care about the community.  They have shown this in so many ways - Pinjarra and Mandurah benefit from them in so many ways.

They also have a great record of rehabilitation - you can take a nice tour to see what they have done.  They are good custodians of the land.

But most mining companies dont - they leave the mine in a disgusting state - that we the taxpayers pay for.  Or as in wittenoom - we just erase the name from our maps.  

Just look at Magellan lead mines - disgusting safety and environmental issues.  If it was not for those birds dying - we would never have known that tonnes of lead dust was blowing in the wind - into peoples water tanks - on their gardens etc.  Where is their compensation, most residents had lead in their blood - we know how dangerous this is for kids.    Magellan promised to

However, the consultants tested the soil, air, water, plants and organisms around the town and found the traces of lead dust were still potent enough to poison birds and insects as well as the mammals that eat them. and thats recently - 3 years after the lead had stopped being transported through esperance.  Magellan Metals gave assurances to the Esperance community as early as 2004 that they would build a smelter in Wiluna and export most of their product as an ingot. This promise was never fulfilled.


I dont soley blame the mining companies - I blame the regulators - they dont follow up properly - they dont enforce their own rules, and when they do the fines are piddly.

http://www.perthnow.com.au/news/western-australia/chevrons-barrow-island-project-leads-to-alleged-environment-breaches/story-e6frg13u-1225874707056 (http://www.perthnow.com.au/news/western-australia/chevrons-barrow-island-project-leads-to-alleged-environment-breaches/story-e6frg13u-1225874707056)

Despite stringent rules, nearly 60 quarantine breaches have been recorded by environmental officials on the Class A nature reserve since production of Chevron’s $43 billion Liquefied Natural Gas hub began in September 2009.

Five breaches were labelled as “critical” and two “major”.


We were promised best practises - I WOULD HATE TO SEE THE WORST

This state is almost held to ransom by mining companies - or else our state and federal government are that corrupt/inept to enforce their own regulations.  Mining companies know this, I am sure, because we all know it.  They can get away with anything - and our government wont do anything but slap them on the wrist.

As for twiggy - he should have evacuated that site - he was given fair warning - but rather than lose a days work - he instructed them to stay in their normal accomodation.  But its ok - he will get away with it - he is blaming the contractors that built the shelter.  







Title: Re: The ELECTION Thread
Post by: *smee* on July 31, 2010, 02:15:38 AM
Smee - just over 20,000 in 2.5 years is not much

what ....  your pulling my leg...arent you ?  

20,000 jobs pledged  in just under 2 years (Aug 08 the idea hatched ) is bloody good going I think ..... they havent even trained enough up to fill the available positions yet so no point having more pledged yet really ...they have only filled approx 600 of the available jobs

The funding for training was the Rudd govts responsibility and they are doing it , according to an idigenous job site I read tonight it slowed down due to GFC and they felt ( justifiably so too IMO ) that 2 years was an unrealistic short time to bring it all together .... http://www.indigenousjobs.info/
I think that the main thing is that the program has got off the ground and is creating training and jobs for these people and for that thanks must go to Kevin Rudd , his government team , Twiggy and all those employers whom have employed or pledged employment through this program  

 
Title: Re: The ELECTION Thread
Post by: *smee* on July 31, 2010, 04:58:29 AM
on a lighter note

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qda_JTFCdVg
Title: Re: The ELECTION Thread
Post by: bnwt on July 31, 2010, 08:53:46 AM
Coalition hits lead in latest poll


http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2010/07/31/2969633.htm


I wonder if there is enough time to knife gillard and wheel out the new messiah before Aug 21 ??
Title: Re: The ELECTION Thread
Post by: *r3830* on July 31, 2010, 09:07:42 AM
Crikey!!!! I'm setting my alarm for 0100am! Seems to be when this place comes very much alive! GOOD MORNING ALL!

wyzeguy - I didn't know you were a WAussie! THANKYOU for your explanation of how the taxation on mining works. Living 5000K's away from somewhere does impede an understanding of local conditions and opinions somewhat. That's what I meant earlier where I mentioned being far removed from this issue. The people who live with this thing in their own backyard certainly will have a far better understanding of the whats, wheres and whys.... and its their input that is important moreso than a person who isn't living the experience.

Now if you over tax mining they will go elswhere, down size or restrict their activities and 10's of thousands of jobs will go with it. Blind freddie can even see that.

loco seeks your permission to apply for the position of 'blind freddy'! LOL . Because the above statement appears to be precisely what is happening (from my perspective) ATM. Uncertainty is undermining development - and this certainly will cost us all in the long run. (loved your letter by the way!)

The mining companies do underpin our economy.  I'm no economist (although I did do economics as part of my MBA), but I suspect the only reason Australia did OK in the financial crisis was because of our mined wealth.

Yes without a doubt,  mines do sometimes put their workers health in danger...  but so do many and most other companies.  That is why we have OH & S laws.
   

fluffy - agree completely with these two statements. I believe that their contribution to our economy has on many occasions kept this country out of trouble. I note rebel's comment earlier - that even unexploited, these resources are valuable. But it seems to me that potential income doesn't pay actual bills. (I'll check with the bank on that as applies to the mortgage - although I'm doubtful they'll go for it!  ;D )
 
MM - regarding safety..... Mining is a risky activity, and people certainly can be killed or injured. That probably explains a lot to do with the high rates of pay. The Tasmanian cave-in some years ago was blamed on an earth tremor, and limited follow-up by the company. OHS is a most important matter for any organisation. But, unfortunately, many employees are deliberately negligent in this area as well as employers. Shortcuts can be dangerous. Like putting on a seatbelt in a car.... some regard that five seconds as a waste of time - until a tree jumps out in front of them.

And - 20,000 Aboriginal people employed. That is quite a marvelous thing from where I sit. 40% of the way to target!
Title: Re: The ELECTION Thread
Post by: *r3830* on July 31, 2010, 09:21:39 AM
GAWD bnwt! I hope Mr Rudd didn't leak under general during his operation!  ;D
Title: Re: The ELECTION Thread
Post by: *smee* on July 31, 2010, 09:23:43 AM
he wouldnt have the gall to leake would he ?
Title: Re: The ELECTION Thread
Post by: *r3830* on July 31, 2010, 09:45:45 AM
You're right - as usual smee!  :lmao:
Title: Re: The ELECTION Thread
Post by: bnwt on July 31, 2010, 09:50:42 AM
Parental leave levy won't push up prices: Coles

The head of Coles says he does not believe having to pay a levy to fund the Coalition's proposed paid parental leave scheme would push prices up for consumers.


http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2010/07/31/2969672.htm
Title: Re: The ELECTION Thread
Post by: bnwt on July 31, 2010, 10:29:54 AM
Gillard accused of disregarding national security


A new leak has emerged, alleging that Prime Minister Julia Gillard has a disregard for national security.

http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2010/07/31/2969711.htm?section=justin
Title: Re: The ELECTION Thread
Post by: *r3830* on July 31, 2010, 11:00:42 AM
smee! Appears we were both wrong..... just keeps getting worse... doesn't it!


Babyland turns against Julia Gillard

NO ONE minds that the Prime Minister is a woman. In fact, they like it. A lot. Nor are people bothered that Julia Gillard doesn't have children. They understand how much her career has meant to her.

But out in Babyland, news that Ms Gillard apparently tried to kill off Labor's paid parental leave scheme, and at the same time tried to limit increases to the age pension, has been met with outright hostility.

Many young families are wondering if she's sneering at them.

They see her stance on parental leave as evidence of a person whose personal choices have left her coldly disconnected from their reality.


http://www.news.com.au/features/federal-election/why-young-families-have-already-lost-faith-in-julia-gillard/story-e6frfllr-1225899241313 (http://www.news.com.au/features/federal-election/why-young-families-have-already-lost-faith-in-julia-gillard/story-e6frfllr-1225899241313)
Title: Re: The ELECTION Thread
Post by: shyer on July 31, 2010, 11:17:49 AM
The REAL DANGER is the greens long article worth reading.

http://www.smh.com.au/federal-election/the-watermelon-party-20100730-10zsb.html (http://www.smh.com.au/federal-election/the-watermelon-party-20100730-10zsb.html)

Over 90% of australians can see through the greens but 9% are fooled be the green outside.

Quote
Greens are watermelons - green on the outside, red on the inside.............

(from aLabor polititian)Rhiannon, he reminded Parliament, was a former member of the Socialist Party of Australia, a pro-Moscow breakaway from the disintegrating Communist Party of Australia.

"Since the disintegration of the Soviet Union, Ms Lee Rhiannon has led an absolute takeover of the NSW Greens. This attack is aimed at consigning the legitimate environmentalists to political limbo."
.........
THE REAL GOAL


......Economic levers would include cap-and-trade systems, resources would be taxed as they were extracted and income taxes reduced. A carbon tax would be introduced.

Single-use products would disappear, as would short-lived tech products. Public transport is increased, air travel is heavily restricted.

Expensive consumer items are leased and their owners responsible for recycling or reusing their raw materials.

Those on lower incomes would be subsidised to compensate for the higher cost of products and services. The range of incomes would be shrunk to "reward contributions" rather than "multiplying privilege".

Incomes are lower but working hours are reduced.

The credit/debt system is phased out; consumers and investors must save.

Population growth is retarded; the average age increases.

THIS means the Goverment controls everything

Wages, prices, money, goods available and fertility is controlled by Government THAT is COMMUNISM

COMMUNISM does not work only BLIND FOOLS are still true believers
.
Title: Re: The ELECTION Thread
Post by: bnwt on July 31, 2010, 11:39:41 AM
Labor at it's Best

It's hopeless, give up Kristina

An even greater insight into the madness of state Labor came yesterday with revelations that Premier Keneally has called a special Cabinet meeting for next Tuesday at which every government minister will present their five ideas to fix NSW.


http://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/news/opinion/its-hopeless-give-up-kristina/story-e6frezz0-1225899204158
Title: Re: The ELECTION Thread
Post by: mandurahmum on July 31, 2010, 04:55:46 PM
shyer - is it really necessary to use such a large font - it seems childish to me
Title: Re: The ELECTION Thread
Post by: bnwt on July 31, 2010, 05:09:29 PM
I don't get it ??

why do the Labor party want krudd to appear on the campaign trail? ........ he's a dud, that's why Labor had to remove him

now they are saying he such a great bloke we want him to campaign nationally .... whose the PM ??

Labor are completely out of control

(http://i289.photobucket.com/albums/ll208/bouddiebay/Screenshot2010-07-31at50515PM.png)
Title: Re: The ELECTION Thread
Post by: mandurahmum on July 31, 2010, 05:18:24 PM
I will ask again - why are the two wars we are currently involved in no longer election issues.

We have just seen 90,000 pages of confidential info leaked by someone in the US armed forces - yet we have no seen any coverage of this on our news.

Apparently this leak will put our solidiers at risk - according to the US government.

When will we have the balls to say to them - no more.  We will no longer put Aussie lives in danger because we no longer trust the USA.  We invaded Iraq because of WMD - on faulty intelligence.  I have no idea why we are still n Afghanistan - according the many US news services and some of the pages that were leaked - Al Quaida is probably in Pakistan.

Bloody hell - we have muslim schools over here that are sending money (yes they have been charged) over to Pakistan schools.  Money that was obtained fraudulently - that for all we know could be helping al quaida.  

Have we just resigned ourselves to the fact that we are in unwinnable wars for as long as it takes?  We have budgeted for 26.6 billion dollars on defence this year - most of that will be spent overseas on our war efforts.

Imagine how many hospitals/schools/road etc that could be built over here with that money.



Title: Re: The ELECTION Thread
Post by: bnwt on July 31, 2010, 05:36:15 PM
what do you mean TWO wars ??

Australia has no involvement in Iraq

Title: Re: The ELECTION Thread
Post by: bnwt on July 31, 2010, 05:36:35 PM
(http://i289.photobucket.com/albums/ll208/bouddiebay/Screenshot2010-07-31at53203PM.png)
Title: Re: The ELECTION Thread
Post by: mandurahmum on July 31, 2010, 05:43:51 PM
bnwt - your right - I was wrong about troops in Iraq
Title: Re: The ELECTION Thread
Post by: *r3830* on July 31, 2010, 11:34:23 PM
A scoop! An article about Tony Abbott!

I'm still the underdog, says Tony Abbott



http://www.news.com.au/features/federal-election/im-still-the-underdog-says-tony-abbott/story-e6frfllr-1225899382738 (http://www.news.com.au/features/federal-election/im-still-the-underdog-says-tony-abbott/story-e6frfllr-1225899382738)
Title: Re: The ELECTION Thread
Post by: bnwt on August 01, 2010, 08:33:59 AM
Labor demonstrates the dangers of taking it one poll at a time

A government that has lived by polls is now dying by them.

http://www.smh.com.au/federal-election/labor-demonstrates-the-dangers-of-taking-it-one-poll-at-a-time-20100731-110pu.html
Title: Re: The ELECTION Thread
Post by: bnwt on August 01, 2010, 08:43:38 AM
Alexander Downer accuses Kevin Rudd of Labor betrayal


“I don't use the c-word, but I do use the f-word pretty freely, and I can tell you that Kevin Rudd is a f…ing awful person,” he said.

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/national-affairs/alexander-downer-accuses-kevin-rudd-of-labor-betrayal/story-fn59niix-1225899504122



infamy infamy ............. they've all got it in for me
Title: Re: The ELECTION Thread
Post by: bnwt on August 01, 2010, 09:02:20 AM
The Rudd we never really knew


http://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/news/opinion/the-rudd-we-never-really-knew/story-e6frezz0-1225899480960


let's all stick the knife in and twist it a few times


Title: Re: The ELECTION Thread
Post by: HellWest'nCrooked on August 01, 2010, 10:22:49 AM

Wonder if he deserves this.........I may live under a mushroom but has anything as bad as this been written about previous PM's...........I guess so.

Very scathing ....and one will never know if it is "right or wrong"
Title: Re: The ELECTION Thread
Post by: *r3830* on August 01, 2010, 10:34:20 AM
What you said Westy..... And...

Who the bluddy hell is Mark Latham when all is said and done?

And - who the Hell is Alexander Downer? "Where are you Alistair?"

They all accuse Mr Rudd of the leaks..... no evidence of it .... but why let the facts get in the way of a good bash-up story?

Who's doing all the leaking now? Seems like a srcipt for The Bald and the Breathless to me.
Title: Re: The ELECTION Thread
Post by: bnwt on August 01, 2010, 10:37:45 AM
I'd suggest it's plain & simple pay back

what goes around comes around
Title: Re: The ELECTION Thread
Post by: *r3830* on August 01, 2010, 10:43:20 AM
Rudd considers legal action on leak claim

Mr Downer also issued a statement on the matter from overseas, saying his comments had been misinterpreted.

‘‘Kevin Rudd was not used by me or other members of the Liberal Party as a so-called ‘double agent’ to leak material against other members of the Labor Party,’’ he said.


‘‘Unfortunately, (the journalist) has created a more controversial story than my comments warranted.’


ONYA Alexander! If you want to see a close-up of a F***ing C** - go check out the mirror in the mens S***house! Don't think Parliamentary Privilege.... applies while we are away....... does it?

http://www.smh.com.au/federal-election/rudd-considers-legal-action-on-leak-claim-20100801-110yd.html (http://www.smh.com.au/federal-election/rudd-considers-legal-action-on-leak-claim-20100801-110yd.html)
Title: Re: The ELECTION Thread
Post by: Rebel*1* on August 01, 2010, 01:07:56 PM

They all accuse Mr Rudd of the leaks..... no evidence of it .... but why let the facts get in the way of a good bash-up story?

Who's doing all the leaking now? Seems like a srcipt for The Bald and the Breathless to me.

Exactly, this whole style of gutter politics undermines the Australian Political system and the Australian people, no matter who is engaging in it.  It is all hearsay until it's proven to be fact.  

Now if you over tax mining they will go elswhere, down size or restrict their activities and 10's of thousands of jobs will go with it. Blind freddie can even see that.

LOL, yeah like Afghanistan.  Can't wait to see the ways in which the Mining companies exploit those people.  Magically, in a few years they too, will be getting blackmailed over their resources, but I doubt they'll hand over the key to the coffers for a bag full of beads, quite as easily as we do.  Currently the Copper mining has been awarded to the HIGHEST bidder in Afghanistan, and I see no reason why our resources are being sold to the lowest bidder by comparison.  It's basic economics to achieve the best price isn't it? or is it?

Irrespective of whether they go 'elsewhere', (which btw is highly unlikely) sooner or later, when they deplete the rest of the worlds resources, they'll be back and our resources will be worth even more.

I have never once stated that Mining is not a major industry in this country.  I have never once said that there shouldn't be mining.  But we're now talking about a veritable free for all.  73 new oil and gas leases and 24 new uranium mine projects?  All planned for 2011/12.  

The wealth we already get from mining (without those new mining initiatives) is what has assisted the economy thus far.  However, the mining companies once paid $1-$3.00 and now it is reported that they are paying $1.00 in $7.00.  I'd say therefore that we've already lost more than half of the remuneration we once received for those resources.  Explain why that is?  The ALP released these figures a few months back, the Libs haven't refuted that particular aspect yet have they? who gave the mining industry such a generous concession at our expense ?  IN fact Abbott is campaigning AGAINST getting us a fair price for access to our unrenewable resources and you think that's in our national interest?  

Now consider that almost 100 new mining projects in this country alone are planned for the next few years, (like a bloody gold rush) and that we will still be receiving only $1.00 in $7.00 for those resources under Abbott?  Once depleted, that's the end of that.  and some talk about us being worse off in the long run?  really?   Shouldn't we be getting the best price possible since the resources are unrenewable?

Jobs created vs price paid for access to valuable resources, in my view are two different things, and the blackmail and fear mongering that goes on over jobs, is all spin.  

For instance, How do you think a mining company can get minerals out of the ground without creating jobs?   Do they have droids?  In fact, they have NO choice but to create jobs, because they can't get the minerals mined and realise obscene wealth without workers doing all the hard slog. Seems to me to be reasonably symbiotic.  

They are doing us no favours, they are simply paying for a labour force to gain access to commodities they have otherwise, paid a sixpense for in return for obscene profits.  And you talk about us being worse off in the long run?  Does the term 'UNRENEWABLE' resources have any impact on that kind of short term gain mentality?

The resources are ours, and it stands to reason that if they belong to us, we should be getting the best price for them in the first place.  It's not like every country in the world is as mineral rich.      

ATM. Uncertainty is undermining development - and this certainly will cost us all in the long run. (loved your letter by the way!)

As I've already said, once depleted, we will be paying for that in the long term with much more than jobs.    Simply because we were STUPID enough to sell our unrenewable resources for a song.  Think about that.  

The mining companies do underpin our economy.  I'm no economist (although I did do economics as part of my MBA), but I suspect the only reason Australia did OK in the financial crisis was because of our mined wealth.


That is on the basis of our current mining leases and only at a return of $1.00 in $7.00.  Imagine how much better off we'd be if the last Govt. had demanded more in return for our resources?    Too late now, those resources are already gone baby gone, for a whole $1.00 in $7.00.  How lucky are we eh?

We don't rely on the mining industry in my view, they rely on us.   It's about time we got that through our heads.  We, have the stronger bargaining position yet, we allow ourselves to be blackmailed for a bag full of beads called jobs.  When in reality, without creating those same jobs, they couldn't access our wealth.  Does anyone believe that the mining companies should be paying  a fair price?
Title: Re: The ELECTION Thread
Post by: bnwt on August 01, 2010, 01:17:28 PM
"Exactly, this whole style of gutter politics undermines the Australian Political system"

what an hilarious comment to make considering the Labor party have refined gutter politics to a fine art

go ahead and blame whoever you want but the only ones responsible for Labor going down the toilet is themselves ... well actually that's not true it's the faceless factions heavies that lurk in the shadows

they have destroyed the Labor party

as I predicted two weeks ago the Liberals wont win ........ rather Labor will lose - MASSIVELY
Title: Re: The ELECTION Thread
Post by: bnwt on August 01, 2010, 01:25:27 PM
Julia Gillard gave $100bn tax shelter to three mining giants


http://www.theaustralian.com.au/national-affairs/julia-gillard-gave-100bn-tax-shelter-to-three-mining-giants-andrew-forrest/story-fn59niix-1225899610675
Title: Re: The ELECTION Thread
Post by: Rebel*1* on August 01, 2010, 01:44:09 PM
You have got to be kidding me.  Labour worse than Liberal in the dirty politics stakes?  I think history would demonstrate otherwise, but I haven't got time to prove that theory right now. 

I also don't happen to think the Aussie people are that naive or that stupid.  The greens have opened their campaign this morning, literally confirming that the profit from our mining resources is going OS, and we are getting a pittance.  He's also made it very clear that under Abbott, everyone else will be taxed, but not the mining companies.  I'm sure Many Aussies will be influenced by the reality being presented by another major party, (who by the way were not invited to debate their election issues with the other two major parties)  convenient?.  I'm sure they would have been throwing some major spanners into the arguments of both sides.  Now that would be a debate worth watching.  'The Cards on the Table' debate.  Bring it on.

Obviously the greens also believe in the Mining industry being taxed, and so do their supporters and those who vote for them. 

You also seem to be underestimating preferences here.  The greens are offering to address various of these REAL issues in the senate, so they will no doubt get second preference votes from all of us who want to keep those issues on the table.

Title: Re: The ELECTION Thread
Post by: Rebel*1* on August 01, 2010, 01:46:10 PM
Julia Gillard gave $100bn tax shelter to three mining giants


http://www.theaustralian.com.au/national-affairs/julia-gillard-gave-100bn-tax-shelter-to-three-mining-giants-andrew-forrest/story-fn59niix-1225899610675

And if she wasn't giving them concessions (with similar threats they toppled a PM over), she'd be the bad guy right?  The Libs will give the mining industry much more in terms of concessions.   The only difference is they'll do so willingly and behind closed doors.

Title: Re: The ELECTION Thread
Post by: bnwt on August 01, 2010, 01:56:47 PM
Labor figures bet against own party

Centrebet primary analyst Neil Evans was reported as saying: "I can't tell you who, but I can tell you this: these are people very high up."

http://au.news.yahoo.com/a/-/latest/7681669/labor-figures-bet-against-own-party/
Title: Re: The ELECTION Thread
Post by: mandurahmum on August 01, 2010, 04:33:55 PM
What you said Westy..... And...

Who the bluddy hell is Mark Latham when all is said and done?

And - who the Hell is Alexander Downer? "Where are you Alistair?"

They all accuse Mr Rudd of the leaks..... no evidence of it .... but why let the facts get in the way of a good bash-up story?

Who's doing all the leaking now? Seems like a srcipt for The Bald and the Breathless to me.

I agree - I really dont like Latham
Title: Re: The ELECTION Thread
Post by: bnwt on August 01, 2010, 05:16:51 PM
Greens warn of 'deadlock' under Tony Abbott


http://www.theaustralian.com.au/news/breaking-news/greens-warn-of-deadlock-under-tony-abbott/story-fn3dxity-1225899677145


what bob brown is really saying is that voting for the greens is more then likely a complete and utter waste of time
Title: Re: The ELECTION Thread
Post by: square peg on August 01, 2010, 06:54:05 PM
Hi Mandurahmum, I haven't read past this post, but I wanted to comment on this part of yours if I may.

When will we have the balls to say to them - no more.  We will no longer put Aussie lives in danger because we no longer trust the USA.  We invaded Iraq because of WMD - on faulty intelligence.  I have no idea why we are still n Afghanistan - according the many US news services and some of the pages that were leaked - Al Quaida is probably in Pakistan

My soon to be ex landlord is involved in the SAS and has just returned from time in Afghanistan. My son asked him why they were over there and his response was something like this (please keep in mind that I was not really paying attention) The purpose of their presence in Afghanastan is to assist in establishing a strong government to withstand threats of terrorism and the development of "safe havens" for terrorist groups. (Thus protecting the rest of the world). He said that they would be there for about another 5 years and then maintain a consistent presence and ongoing support and training. he also spoke of something to do with Afghanastan being a gateway for terrorism which needed to be plugged.

I really don't understand how it all works, but I am under the impression that they need to establish a govt. committed to fighting terrorism and not harbouring it.

I believe that the information given to my son would have been "dumbed down" to suit a 14 year old, in addition to no doubt excluding information which he was not at liberty to share with any Tom Dick or Harry (or Tennant)
Title: Re: The ELECTION Thread
Post by: *Yibida* on August 01, 2010, 07:02:18 PM

Afghanistan is unwinable... research History ... the Russians warned them... Russia failed also after many years and pulled out ... Russia told them ""this was our Vietnam""...
Title: Re: The ELECTION Thread
Post by: Rebel*1* on August 01, 2010, 07:14:41 PM
Absolutely Yibida, but you're forgetting, they've just found a conservative $1 Trillion in untapped mineral resources, and news stories I posted way back in this thread, now estimate that we'll be in that country for decades.  The new war will be over protecting what the US believe is their fair share for their 'investment' of War (and this was well before minerals were discovered there) which is the very word they used to describe their concerns over China getting the First Copper mining contract.  I feel like we've been through this movie before in previous decades.  
Title: Re: The ELECTION Thread
Post by: *Yibida* on August 01, 2010, 07:19:33 PM


That's all well and good Reb but are our leaders smart enough to get into the action $... we always seem to get shafted and never rewarded for anything Australia does to help the international community... betcha the Yanks will give us a few crumbs and say thanks for our efforts over there...
Title: Re: The ELECTION Thread
Post by: Rebel*1* on August 01, 2010, 07:26:57 PM
No Yib our pollies are too busy bending over for the yanks.  That's what offends me the most I think. Our boys are over there on false pretenses in the first place, given the US history with the middle east and Bin Laden himself. And even though they've found mineral resources I bet their allies are the last on the list of those being remunerated.   They're always bloody meddling.  Just look at South America as a brilliant example of their kind of 'democracy' in action.  The middle east is just the new South America.   Who knows Yib, we could have been led into this invasion because the US already suspected there was untapped mineral wealth.  As I said earlier, not WMD's, but MMP's = Minerals of Mass profit.
Title: Re: The ELECTION Thread
Post by: Rebel*1* on August 01, 2010, 07:29:46 PM
Oh, and if anyone thinks that 9/11 was justification enough for this silly war, then I would ask you to recall a similar terrorist bombing in Bali.  We hardly declared war over it did we?  How many lives will be lost internationally before this war is over?  I'll bet you that it will be many more than those who died in 9/11. No disrespect meant to those innocent victims of an attack on America.  NOT Australia.  
Title: Re: The ELECTION Thread
Post by: mandurahmum on August 01, 2010, 07:47:06 PM
Hi Mandurahmum, I haven't read past this post, but I wanted to comment on this part of yours if I may.

When will we have the balls to say to them - no more.  We will no longer put Aussie lives in danger because we no longer trust the USA.  We invaded Iraq because of WMD - on faulty intelligence.  I have no idea why we are still n Afghanistan - according the many US news services and some of the pages that were leaked - Al Quaida is probably in Pakistan

My soon to be ex landlord is involved in the SAS and has just returned from time in Afghanistan. My son asked him why they were over there and his response was something like this (please keep in mind that I was not really paying attention) The purpose of their presence in Afghanastan is to assist in establishing a strong government to withstand threats of terrorism and the development of "safe havens" for terrorist groups. (Thus protecting the rest of the world). He said that they would be there for about another 5 years and then maintain a consistent presence and ongoing support and training. he also spoke of something to do with Afghanastan being a gateway for terrorism which needed to be plugged.

I really don't understand how it all works, but I am under the impression that they need to establish a govt. committed to fighting terrorism and not harbouring it.

I believe that the information given to my son would have been "dumbed down" to suit a 14 year old, in addition to no doubt excluding information which he was not at liberty to share with any Tom Dick or Harry (or Tennant)

Soldiers are expected to say that - they are not allowed to say anything negative or even truthful.

Thats why that soldier leaked those 90,000 pages of 'confidential info'  because sometimes its the only way to get the truth out there.
Title: Re: The ELECTION Thread
Post by: *smee* on August 01, 2010, 07:48:08 PM
Mulder  & Scully knew the truth was out there
Title: Re: The ELECTION Thread
Post by: *Yibida* on August 01, 2010, 07:49:56 PM


But never found it..
Title: Re: The ELECTION Thread
Post by: *Yibida* on August 01, 2010, 07:53:06 PM
(http://www.comicbookgalaxy.com/blog/uploaded_images/x-files-believe-796806.jpg)
Title: Re: The ELECTION Thread
Post by: mandurahmum on August 01, 2010, 07:56:18 PM
No Yib our pollies are too busy bending over for the yanks.  That's what offends me the most I think. Our boys are over there on false pretenses in the first place, given the US history with the middle east and Bin Laden himself. And even though they've found mineral resources I bet their allies are the last on the list of those being remunerated.   They're always bloody meddling.  Just look at South America as a brilliant example of their kind of 'democracy' in action.  The middle east is just the new South America.   Who knows Yib, we could have been led into this invasion because the US already suspected there was untapped mineral wealth.  As I said earlier, not WMD's, but MMP's = Minerals of Mass profit.


exactly.  I remember that movie - love actually where the british pm tells the american president   "I love that word "relationship." Covers all manner of sins, doesn't it? I fear that this has become a bad relationship; a relationship based on the President taking exactly what he wants and casually ignoring all those things that really matter to, erm... Britain. We may be a small country, but we're a great one, too. The country of Shakespeare, Churchill, the Beatles, Sean Connery, Harry Potter. David Beckham's right foot. David Beckham's left foot, come to that. And a friend who bullies us is no longer a friend. And since bullies only respond to strength, from now onward I will be prepared to be much stronger. And the President should be prepared for that."

I would love for our pm whoever they are to have the guts to say this. ( without the english references of course)
Title: Re: The ELECTION Thread
Post by: mandurahmum on August 01, 2010, 07:58:34 PM
They did not even send anyone high up for our worst ever natural disaster memorial service - even though Hilliary was in Indonesia - I am sure that their government would have understood, had she bothered to attend.

Title: Re: The ELECTION Thread
Post by: *Ubbie Max* on August 01, 2010, 08:54:24 PM
Yib. Send Nomad & Psycho over to Afganistan, if you get my drift. They'll sort it out.
Title: Re: The ELECTION Thread
Post by: *smee* on August 02, 2010, 02:09:17 AM
I see the Dutch have just pulled thier troops out of Afganistan after 4 years , the first NATO country to do so ...will this have a flow on effect ???
Title: Re: The ELECTION Thread
Post by: bnwt on August 02, 2010, 07:48:41 AM
Labor of hate on eve of destruction



http://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/election/labor-of-hate-on-eve-of-destruction/story-fn5zmod2-1225899696507
Title: Re: The ELECTION Thread
Post by: bnwt on August 02, 2010, 07:52:27 AM
Chips go down as Rudd's examined


http://www.couriermail.com.au/news/national/chips-go-down-as-rudds-examined/story-fn5z3z83-1225899699865
Title: Re: The ELECTION Thread
Post by: bnwt on August 02, 2010, 09:55:07 AM
Julie Bishop tells of Kevin Rudd's swearing, use of c-word, he denies it


http://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/election/julie-bishop-tells-of-kevin-rudds-swearing-use-of-c-word-he-denies-it/story-fn5zm695-1225899737903
Title: Re: The ELECTION Thread
Post by: bnwt on August 02, 2010, 09:57:33 AM
Gillard won't bite on Tanner leak claims

The party has been plagued by a series of damaging leaks during the federal election campaign, but their source is still largely unknown.

http://www.smh.com.au/federal-election/the-leaders/gillard-wont-bite-on-tanner-leak-claims-20100802-111t2.html
Title: Re: The ELECTION Thread
Post by: *r3830* on August 02, 2010, 10:12:23 AM
bnwt - I'm starting to smell a Labor Red Herring campaign. More 'SPIN' at work here!

The opposition would not be silly enough to attempt to discredit Rudd, in fact, it was Abbott who attempted to contact Rudd after his removal. Now we see Ms Gillard and her cohorts saying what a bunch of barstards the Liberals are - for saying such demoralising things about poor Mr Rudd. So, they're aiming at the sympathy vote. Quite funny really - because actions speak much louder than words.... and of course, Labor did nothing but support their previous leader.... well, at least until just after dark, the day after their honest pledges of support!

As the boards reflect - very little news from the Libs. They don't need any - as labor is crashing in its own ashes at the moment.

The previous article reflects views from 2002. They had to go back a few years to find that info - didn't they.
Title: Re: The ELECTION Thread
Post by: bnwt on August 02, 2010, 12:48:39 PM
(http://i289.photobucket.com/albums/ll208/bouddiebay/Screenshot2010-08-02at124119PM.png)


so if she is now real the Women's Weekly was

(http://i289.photobucket.com/albums/ll208/bouddiebay/Screenshot2010-08-02at124404PM.png)
Title: Re: The ELECTION Thread
Post by: Rebel*1* on August 02, 2010, 01:58:50 PM
Soldiers are expected to say that - they are not allowed to say anything negative or even truthful.

Thats why that soldier leaked those 90,000 pages of 'confidential info'  because sometimes its the only way to get the truth out there.


I  support the strong sentiment 'against' this war, but I do feel that this was going a tad too far.  Nothing is in the public interest if it means that lives are going to be placed at risk.   The guy from Wiki leaks arrogantly agreed that he would have to consider any such deaths to be 'collateral damage' ?  What a poonce.  The least he could have done was shield the bloody names.    I think he needs a gun held up to his head by a Taliban die hard and let's see how he likes the prospect of being turned into a statistic by the same standards.

How many times has history demonstrated this scenario though?  America using informants within the population they have invaded or are attempting to manipulate, and then those informants being left high and dry when the shite hits the fan?  

Any wonder why Afghan people don't openly assist the so called US investment in their country?.  Being an ally of the yanks could get them killed. By comparison if they don't cowtow to the Taliban, that too can get them killed.   Can't win can they? They're everybody's collateral damage apparently.   I wonder if the US are going to get those people who were named (and their families), out of Afghanistan without the usual bullshit over substantiating refugee status???  lol.  

Either way, I don't think our role there should be to back up the US in a war, but to provide a peace keeping force while Afghan itself forms its own Govt, Defense and Police force and other necessary infrastructure.   They can then fight the Taliban without our help.  What we're forgetting is that they are no longer a country of poverty and therefore an 'easy target' to everyone wanting to 'lord' it up over them.  They are now independently wealthy and they need help to empower their own people to fight for peace and democracy according to their interpretation/culture/religion/history etc.

Title: Re: The ELECTION Thread
Post by: bnwt on August 02, 2010, 02:55:30 PM
Gillard questioned on citizens' assembly leak


http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2010/08/02/2971054.htm
Title: Re: The ELECTION Thread
Post by: bnwt on August 02, 2010, 03:02:43 PM
even with the Newspoll at 50/50 Tony Abbott will be PM

http://www.abc.net.au/elections/federal/2010/calculator/?swing=national&national=-2.7&nsw=0&vic=0&qld=0&wa=0&sa=0&tas=0&act=0&nt=0&retiringfactor=1

apparently labor internal polling is showing a considerably more dire result


my latest election prediction is that by 6:45pm on the saturday night things will start to looking extremely bad for labor ....... by around 7:15 the labor government will be gone
Title: Re: The ELECTION Thread
Post by: bnwt on August 02, 2010, 03:24:09 PM
Where has ‘fake’ Julia gone?

Julia Gillard said the Rudd Government lost its way. Today, she’s conceded that her campaign has lost her way.

http://blogs.theaustralian.news.com.au/samanthamaiden/index.php/theaustralian/comments/where_has_fake_julia_gone/
Title: Re: The ELECTION Thread
Post by: Rebel*1* on August 02, 2010, 03:32:36 PM
It takes really shallow people to appraise someone on this kind of equally shallow rubbish.  It's quite OK for widdle Tony boy to get himself an acting coach by comparison?  And then tell us all that we can only really believe his SCRIPTED replies?  By comparison you want to Bash Julia for doing nothing different to her counterpart?  Only difference is, she didn't need acting lessons to convince anyone she had integrity.  Tony's still practicing in front of his mirror no doubt.   
Title: Re: The ELECTION Thread
Post by: elantra on August 02, 2010, 04:41:30 PM
Okay this is just me.
I have always been a swinging voter, why? because I can see good & bad policies in both parties.
I can see good & bad Politicians in both parties, I refuse to object just because somebody else puts up a motion or idea, that is not of my group or party
We are all Australians & we should all work as one.

But gee I find it hard to believe people would want Tony Abbott as Prime Minister of Australia.
Remember he was only elected leader of his party by one vote. Felt sorry for Mr Turnbull.
Maybe a woman's touch is what we need, she should be given a chance because we know what to expect from Tony Abbott.
Don't know Australia deserves that.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oqHP-LtEN7w
Title: Re: The ELECTION Thread
Post by: mandurahmum on August 02, 2010, 04:43:04 PM
Soldiers are expected to say that - they are not allowed to say anything negative or even truthful.

Thats why that soldier leaked those 90,000 pages of 'confidential info'  because sometimes its the only way to get the truth out there.


I  support the strong sentiment 'against' this war, but I do feel that this was going a tad too far.  Nothing is in the public interest if it means that lives are going to be placed at risk.   The guy from Wiki leaks arrogantly agreed that he would have to consider any such deaths to be 'collateral damage' ?  What a poonce.  The least he could have done was shield the bloody names.    I think he needs a gun held up to his head by a Taliban die hard and let's see how he likes the prospect of being turned into a statistic by the same standards.

How many times has history demonstrated this scenario though?  America using informants within the population they have invaded or are attempting to manipulate, and then those informants being left high and dry when the shite hits the fan?  

Any wonder why Afghan people don't openly assist the so called US investment in their country?.  Being an ally of the yanks could get them killed. By comparison if they don't cowtow to the Taliban, that too can get them killed.   Can't win can they? They're everybody's collateral damage apparently.   I wonder if the US are going to get those people who were named (and their families), out of Afghanistan without the usual bullshit over substantiating refugee status???  lol.  

Either way, I don't think our role there should be to back up the US in a war, but to provide a peace keeping force while Afghan itself forms its own Govt, Defense and Police force and other necessary infrastructure.   They can then fight the Taliban without our help.  What we're forgetting is that they are no longer a country of poverty and therefore an 'easy target' to everyone wanting to 'lord' it up over them.  They are now independently wealthy and they need help to empower their own people to fight for peace and democracy according to their interpretation/culture/religion/history etc.



I agree the soldier went to far, but I dont blame wiki leaks - there are a lot of other sites that would have also published them.   I wonder why this soldier was even given access to these records.  Surely they have some sort of security so that a soldier can only access records that he needs to.  

But I do wonder what the USA is going to do now - lives have been put at risk because of their lax security - so they must now help those that have been affected.







Title: Re: The ELECTION Thread
Post by: bnwt on August 02, 2010, 05:20:05 PM
Gillard plays down climate assembly

http://news.smh.com.au/breaking-news-national/gillard-plays-down-climate-assembly-20100802-11311.html
Title: Re: The ELECTION Thread
Post by: bnwt on August 02, 2010, 05:40:26 PM
elantra

you say when talking about prime minister Abbott "Remember he was only elected leader of his party by one vote"

ms gillard was elected with NO votes .......... but just one knife
Title: Re: The ELECTION Thread
Post by: Rebel*1* on August 02, 2010, 05:48:21 PM
Hi elantra, no it's not just you. LOL.  I tend to vote on the issues too, not the personalities.  If the LIbs could come up with an Intelligent candidate, I might take them seriously.  Hey it could have been worse, Hockey could have won the leadership ballot instead of Abbott.  LOL

And lest we forget the dirty pool of the last election?  Don't worry bnwt, I'm digging up some examples of nasty stuff from the  last election so you can see who was hurling the accusations and innuendo's around then.  Some things never change.   Hey and let's not forget "GrechGate".    The fact of the matter is that in the whole time Rudd was in Leadership the character attacks and dirty politics never stopped from the LIb Camp.  (again see Grechgate for updated example of obvious ankle tapping and dirty politics.)  Jeese, wasn't that Laurie Oaks again?  Can that guy stop 'being the news' anytime soon?

Just so you can see that not too much has changed when it comes to the Libs.  Same shite, different election. (see article below- 2007)

With Guess who breaking the story?  Laurie Oaks, and once again during an election?  This kind of mud raking and dirt slinging does nothing more than degrade an election and the political process.   Don't we deserve to be advised of the issues under decision for us to vote on?  Devoid of this rubbish?   The whole point is that no matter which side is doing it, it has no place in an election.  Yet our media are falling all over themselves to perpetuate it to the point of ridiculous.  Meanwhile serious election issues are being buried in the innuendo, superficial character assassination, and mud slinging?  What's that about?   Is that bigger news than the actual election issues?

The media are not reporting news, they're making and manipulating the news.   I can't believe the Media are now bagging Julia Gillard about being 'Real'?  It defies logic when one looks at the alternative?  Tony Real?  lmao.  

And yes, you have to wonder how anyone has convinced themselves that Abbott has actually turned into a Statesman with a few acting lessons?  LOL.

Parties to 'play clean' but dirt emerges
http://www.ozroundtable.com/index.php?action=post;topic=2695.400;num_replies=418

September 23, 2007 - 11:09AM
AdvertisementAdvertisement

Both major parties have pledged to keep the election campaign clean, as fresh claims emerged about political rivals spreading dirt about one another.

The accusations followed last week's fiery scenes in parliament, when opposition MPs alleged the government had dug up Labor leader Kevin Rudd's private medical records


Title: Re: The ELECTION Thread
Post by: elantra on August 02, 2010, 06:02:15 PM
elantra

you say when talking about prime minister Abbott "Remember he was only elected leader of his party by one vote"

ms gillard was elected with NO votes .......... but just one knife

I thought ms Gillard was elected leader of the Labor Party unopposed,
After Mr Rudd stood down.
Isn't that correct??
Title: Re: The ELECTION Thread
Post by: Rebel*1* on August 02, 2010, 06:12:12 PM
Correct.  Nobody else stood for leadership wasn't that also correct?  And if not Julia, then who else?  I think if it was going to happen, then we got the best candidate in Julia Gillard. 

A most articulate and intelligent woman in her own right.  I thought she performed BRILLIANTLY on the morning after the so called 'leaks' were exposed and fingers pointed with ensuing media frenzy over hearsay.

Meanwhile Abbott showed up at a press conference directly after, with nothing but negative sloganism, no intelligent reply to questions and backed up by two colleagues to step in when he 'did the George Bush'  Doh !!!

Title: Re: The ELECTION Thread
Post by: Roo on August 02, 2010, 07:04:25 PM
Correct.  Nobody else stood for leadership wasn't that also correct?  And if not Julia, then who else?  I think if it was going to happen, then we got the best candidate in Julia Gillard. 

A most articulate and intelligent woman in her own right.  I thought she performed BRILLIANTLY on the morning after the so called 'leaks' were exposed and fingers pointed with ensuing media frenzy over hearsay.

Meanwhile Abbott showed up at a press conference directly after, with nothing but negative sloganism, no intelligent reply to questions and backed up by two colleagues to step in when he 'did the George Bush'  Doh !!!



That is one thing I'm worried about....is it nothing but a performance?

She seems all cool, calm and collected....but is it just a facade?

Tony may have a chance if he ditches the Speedos and starts getting some pics of him in a pair of boardies..lol

Only kidding..lol
Title: Re: The ELECTION Thread
Post by: Rebel*1* on August 02, 2010, 08:28:20 PM
Her replies in the press conference that morning were NOT scripted, they were her own and she was superbly articulate in the face of a media generated frenzy over hearsay alone.    IN fact, she was being  'The Real Julia' apparently, and what a great performance.  Tony should be more worried about the Real 'unscripted' Julia.  She was impressive. 

Meanwhile, The scripted Julia is no different from the Scripted Howard, the Scripted Abbott, the Scripted Rudd.  It's part of politics.  So you should be asking the same question about all of them when they've given election speeches.   Are they for real?  Is Tony Abbott for real? 

In addition to this for the irony of all ironies, did you miss the 7.30 report where Abbott told the Nation, (in justification of his contradictions) that they can only really rely on his 'scripted' speeches?  Not things said in unscripted replies to media or the public? 

So when HE'S being real and unscripted, he can't be believed or held to it, by his own admission, but unless Julia is real and unscripted she can't be believed if she gives a scripted response?  LOL  How does that follow? bit hard for anyone to get their head around really.  LOL. 
Title: Re: The ELECTION Thread
Post by: MrsFluffyDodgers on August 02, 2010, 10:20:20 PM
Heeeeellllllllo Everyone.  (epecially Golden)

I am very upset with that little Kevin Rudd for plunging my beautiful pond into debt.  We were ahead.  Had money in the bank.. and now..  big debt.  Labour do it every time.  My grandmother always told me you couldn't rely on someone who couldn't manage their money.  (or MY money if you think about.) 

Many dead and overseas citizens were paid that $900.  Ridiculous!!!  (and I know both cases personally)   

That little Julia is a naughty girl.   Sticking a knife in the poor little Kevins back like that.  Even naughty boys don't deserve to be attacked by their own.  No loyalty. 

I rather like Tony's budgy smugglers, but still don't trust any of them at the end of the day.  It  comes down to which party is going to ruin the country less.  I think I'll go with the experienced players with a history of managing the country asutely and into excess and not the amateurs (Labour) who take moments to throw money away.   
Title: Re: The ELECTION Thread
Post by: elantra on August 02, 2010, 11:18:16 PM
Heeeeellllllllo Everyone.  (epecially Golden)

I am very upset with that little Kevin Rudd for plunging my beautiful pond into debt.  We were ahead.  Had money in the bank.. and now..  big debt.  Labour do it every time.  My grandmother always told me you couldn't rely on someone who couldn't manage their money.  (or MY money if you think about.) 

Many dead and overseas citizens were paid that $900.  Ridiculous!!!  (and I know both cases personally)   

That little Julia is a naughty girl.   Sticking a knife in the poor little Kevins back like that.  Even naughty boys don't deserve to be attacked by their own.  No loyalty. 

I rather like Tony's budgy smugglers, but still don't trust any of them at the end of the day.  It  comes down to which party is going to ruin the country less.  I think I'll go with the experienced players with a history of managing the country asutely and into excess and not the amateurs (Labour) who take moments to throw money away.   

You are forgetting that this Government kept Australia out of a recession. Please remember that. The rest of the world would love to be in our position.

The reason the previous Government had so much money was from the GST & the fact that they sold of so much of our gold reserves at a very low price.
we might be in debt but we are not in a recession.
Which we would be if we had done nothing.
Look at how much the USA spent trying to avoid a recession.
Look at how much the U.K spent trying to avoid a recession.
Look at Greece.
This bunch of amateurs saved & created a lot of jobs for all of us Australians.
No other Government has had to deal with a crises like the "GFC" since the 1930's
The thing is, it is not over yet.
Please remember that when you come to vote.
I'm glad you like Tony's budgy (sic) smugglers, you can see the outline of his polices.
Title: Re: The ELECTION Thread
Post by: mandurahmum on August 02, 2010, 11:19:24 PM
I had the poll people phone me tonight.  One of the questions was about religion and whether or not the fact that Tony was a Catholic and Julia an atheist make a difference.  The question and options were skewed - it kinda made out that being an atheist was a bad thing.

Why is religion being brought into an election?

And is the 'fact' that Julia is an atheist well known?  I did not know it and it kinda sounded like a bit of a smear to me.





Title: Re: The ELECTION Thread
Post by: MrsFluffyDodgers on August 02, 2010, 11:26:58 PM


You are forgetting that this Government kept Australia out of a recession. Please remember that. The rest of the world would love to be in our position.  The reason the previous Government had so much money was from the GST & the fact that they sold of so much of our gold reserves at a very low price.
we might be in debt but we are not in a recession.
Which we would be if we had done nothing.
Look at how much the USA spent trying to avoid a recession.
Look at how much the U.K spent trying to avoid a recession.
Look at Greece.
This bunch of amateurs saved & created a lot of jobs for all of us Australians.
No other Government has had to deal with a crises like the "GFC" since the 1930's
The thing is, it is not over yet.
Please remember that when you come to vote.
I'm glad you like Tony's budgy (sic) smugglers, you can see the outline of his polices.


Heellllooo Elantra.  Nice to meet you.

I don't think that there is any evidence that Labour kept us out of a recession.  I think there is evidence that China kept buying our resources and that kept us out of the recession.

I'm glad your glad I like Tony's budgies...   Yes you can see the outline of real firm large policies.  

Title: Re: The ELECTION Thread
Post by: mandurahmum on August 02, 2010, 11:27:53 PM
Heeeeellllllllo Everyone.  (epecially Golden)

I am very upset with that little Kevin Rudd for plunging my beautiful pond into debt.  We were ahead.  Had money in the bank.. and now..  big debt.  Labour do it every time.  My grandmother always told me you couldn't rely on someone who couldn't manage their money.  (or MY money if you think about.)  

Many dead and overseas citizens were paid that $900.  Ridiculous!!!  (and I know both cases personally)  

That little Julia is a naughty girl.   Sticking a knife in the poor little Kevins back like that.  Even naughty boys don't deserve to be attacked by their own.  No loyalty.  

I rather like Tony's budgy smugglers, but still don't trust any of them at the end of the day.  It  comes down to which party is going to ruin the country less.  I think I'll go with the experienced players with a history of managing the country asutely and into excess and not the amateurs (Labour) who take moments to throw money away.  

You are forgetting that this Government kept Australia out of a recession. Please remember that. The rest of the world would love to be in our position.

The reason the previous Government had so much money was from the GST & the fact that they sold of so much of our gold reserves at a very low price.
we might be in debt but we are not in a recession.
Which we would be if we had done nothing.
Look at how much the USA spent trying to avoid a recession.
Look at how much the U.K spent trying to avoid a recession.
Look at Greece.
This bunch of amateurs saved & created a lot of jobs for all of us Australians.
No other Government has had to deal with a crises like the "GFC" since the 1930's
The thing is, it is not over yet.
Please remember that when you come to vote.
I'm glad you like Tony's budgy (sic) smugglers, you can see the outline of his polices.


exactly.  The previous government had money because they were not spending it on things that needed it.  

Mrs Fluffee - I hate to disagree with you - but there is ample evidence that Mr Rudds government kept us out of recession.  His stimulus package did work.  We did not loose the jobs that were predicted - none of our major banks went under (thank you Mr Keating for making our banking regulations so strong).  The building industry boomed - and is still booming over here. 

I am sorry but I think it might be the one thing that Rudd will be remembered for - and rightly so - He has gotten worldwide praise for his efforts and we are the envy of most of the world right now

Title: Re: The ELECTION Thread
Post by: MrsFluffyDodgers on August 02, 2010, 11:54:25 PM
Heellloo Mum.  ;D Yes I would agree with you about Keating.  Jolly good treasurer that.  

I'm not Labour or Liberal at core.  I'm a swinger.

But I am cross about being put into debt and it does seem to be a pattern (Keating excepted) with Labour.

As for jobs..  well my entire family (bar one out of 4) lost their entire livelihoods for a long time, many months.  Had never happened before.  But this is just my opinion and personal experience.

Many many in our profession were and are out of work for a long time.  The hiring people told me stories of receiving hundreds and hundreds of applications whereas in the past they would only receive 40 or 50.  Some people I know have still not found suitable or alternatively any jobs.   This is absolutely unheard of prior to this.    I personally know many many clever professional people who still can't find work.  I was eventually one of the lucky ones.  That makes two out of four in my family now.

Unemployment figures are hidden amongst many people.

For the first 5 months, I did not appear in jobless figures because my partner was working.  Then they lost their job and we had to wait 3 or 4 months to be able to register for unemployment and received help from the government because we had a little hard earned money in the bank.  We blew 20 grand in those three or four months whilst we were qualifying.  During that time we did not appear in the jobless figures either.

I have a friend whose partner is a lawyer.  They had a baby late last year.  The wife did not lose her job, but her husband did and still can't get work.  He does not appear in the unemployment figures.  The wife wanted to spend time with the baby, but couldn't as they needed an income.

I know of many people who are in this same position and don't appear as unemployed.  Unemployment is a lot rifer than the government would lead us to believe.   ...  I know.



Title: Re: The ELECTION Thread
Post by: elantra on August 03, 2010, 12:54:43 AM
Heeeeellllllllo Everyone.  (epecially Golden)

I am very upset with that little Kevin Rudd for plunging my beautiful pond into debt.  We were ahead.  Had money in the bank.. and now..  big debt.  Labour do it every time.  My grandmother always told me you couldn't rely on someone who couldn't manage their money.  (or MY money if you think about.)  

Many dead and overseas citizens were paid that $900.  Ridiculous!!!  (and I know both cases personally)  

That little Julia is a naughty girl.   Sticking a knife in the poor little Kevins back like that.  Even naughty boys don't deserve to be attacked by their own.  No loyalty.  

I rather like Tony's budgy smugglers, but still don't trust any of them at the end of the day.  It  comes down to which party is going to ruin the country less.  I think I'll go with the experienced players with a history of managing the country asutely and into excess and not the amateurs (Labour) who take moments to throw money away.  

You are forgetting that this Government kept Australia out of a recession. Please remember that. The rest of the world would love to be in our position.

The reason the previous Government had so much money was from the GST & the fact that they sold of so much of our gold reserves at a very low price.
we might be in debt but we are not in a recession.
Which we would be if we had done nothing.
Look at how much the USA spent trying to avoid a recession.
Look at how much the U.K spent trying to avoid a recession.
Look at Greece.
This bunch of amateurs saved & created a lot of jobs for all of us Australians.
No other Government has had to deal with a crises like the "GFC" since the 1930's
The thing is, it is not over yet.
Please remember that when you come to vote.
I'm glad you like Tony's budgy (sic) smugglers, you can see the outline of his polices.


exactly.  The previous government had money because they were not spending it on things that needed it.  

Mrs Fluffee - I hate to disagree with you - but there is ample evidence that Mr Rudds government kept us out of recession.  His stimulus package did work.  We did not loose the jobs that were predicted - none of our major banks went under (thank you Mr Keating for making our banking regulations so strong).  The building industry boomed - and is still booming over here. 

I am sorry but I think it might be the one thing that Rudd will be remembered for - and rightly so - He has gotten worldwide praise for his efforts and we are the envy of most of the world right now


Not forgetting Bank protection which guaranteed our money would be safe in the Bank.
Title: Re: The ELECTION Thread
Post by: elantra on August 03, 2010, 01:01:34 AM
It's easy to see how people are misinformed.
I heard on TV this afternoon.

"Most people get their news from channel nine."

That's rather frightening is it not?
Title: Re: The ELECTION Thread
Post by: mandurahmum on August 03, 2010, 01:26:26 AM
Heellloo Mum.  ;D Yes I would agree with you about Keating.  Jolly good treasurer that.  

I'm not Labour or Liberal at core.  I'm a swinger.

But I am cross about being put into debt and it does seem to be a pattern (Keating excepted) with Labour.

As for jobs..  well my entire family (bar one out of 4) lost their entire livelihoods for a long time, many months.  Had never happened before.  But this is just my opinion and personal experience.

Many many in our profession were and are out of work for a long time.  The hiring people told me stories of receiving hundreds and hundreds of applications whereas in the past they would only receive 40 or 50.  Some people I know have still not found suitable or alternatively any jobs.   This is absolutely unheard of prior to this.    I personally know many many clever professional people who still can't find work.  I was eventually one of the lucky ones.  That makes two out of four in my family now.

Unemployment figures are hidden amongst many people.

For the first 5 months, I did not appear in jobless figures because my partner was working.  Then they lost their job and we had to wait 3 or 4 months to be able to register for unemployment and received help from the government because we had a little hard earned money in the bank.  We blew 20 grand in those three or four months whilst we were qualifying.  During that time we did not appear in the jobless figures either.

I have a friend whose partner is a lawyer.  They had a baby late last year.  The wife did not lose her job, but her husband did and still can't get work.  He does not appear in the unemployment figures.  The wife wanted to spend time with the baby, but couldn't as they needed an income.

I know of many people who are in this same position and don't appear as unemployed.  Unemployment is a lot rifer than the government would lead us to believe.   ...  I know.





See I dont know anyone that lost their jobs because of the gfc, but I do know plenty (well sons friends) that all got jobs or went to uni/tafe.  I dont know anyone that lost their house, but I do know plenty that lost a lot of money.

In fact in this state unemployment is hardly an issue compared to what it used to be, and that is mainly to do with mining
Title: Re: The ELECTION Thread
Post by: bnwt on August 03, 2010, 08:42:16 AM
Gillard's challenge 'a sign of desperation'


http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2010/08/03/2971539.htm
Title: Re: The ELECTION Thread
Post by: Rebel*1* on August 03, 2010, 10:50:02 AM
I'm glad you like Tony's budgy (sic) smugglers, you can see the outline of his polices.

LMAO, yes and he has it firmly in hand most of the time as he practices his lines in front of the mirror.  "Magic Mirror tell me today, have all my toe cutters had fun at play"  

Elantra, and MM, you are so right, and the glaringly obvious disparity between the have's and have not's in Johnny's last year of Govt, demonstrates exactly who paid for the surplus.  Us !!  Average Aussies went without to fund that position, while the Mining companies were given the concession of all concessions.  Our wealth at $1.00 in $7.00.  The previous Labour Govt charged $1.00 in $3.00.  It's self evident who was favoured in that little back room deal yes?  Why are the mining companies paying so little since the Howard Govt eh?  How do they reconcile that with the NATIONAL interests?  Under Abbott, they'll probably be paying .50 cents in $7.00.  I'd like this issue debated given that it concerns short sheeting Australia's return on their own wealth.

And lest we forget, During the last two years of the Howard Govt. the richest 200 Australians announced RECORD profits of 22% & 26% respectively on the back of the commodities boom.  I posted a point form glimpse of how Average Aussies were fairing in the same Year Little Johnny was Telling us 'We'd never been better off".  Where I live, the unemployment was out of control - 23 jobs advertised per week with 12,000 job seekers.  We had one of the highest foreclosure figures in the country, the lowest wage rates, and no access to any services because Johnny had literally starved them dry from the Fed level down.  Meanwhile Johnny and Stone were asserting that we had a 'Once in a Lifetime' labour market and anyone not employed was simply 'work avoidant'.  I wrote to Howard at the time with statistics, pointing out that with 23 jobs per week and 12,000 job seekers, "Work was avoiding us".  (btw, I wasn't unemployed thankfully, but many many of my fellow residents were)  

His Govt. robbed 1billion dollars from the public health budget and gave it to the Private Health market (this in a time when the wealthy, or otherwise better off, didn't really need such biased concessions).  

In fact, I'll go back and do an analysis as I did previously, on exactly how Johnny robbed Peter (The Aussie Punters), to Pay Paul (The Aussie Rich).  It should then be self evident how Johnny was able to put us into surplus.  Nero fiddles, Rome Burns.  

Abbott's now proposing to rob another billion out of the National Public Health Budget?  What's changed?  They can't tax mining.  Oh heavens no, let's rob the public purse instead and provide sub standard 2nd world health & hospital standards instead ?  

But as I said, I'll go and get the actual factual evidence so you can figure it out for yourself.  Any Govt that has to Rob people of basic services while advantaging the rich in every direction is not acting in the National Interest.  I challenge both parties to bring the issue of mining remuneration to the next debate.  Let's see which of the two kings are wearing no clothes.
Title: Re: The ELECTION Thread
Post by: elantra on August 03, 2010, 11:36:28 AM
I'm glad you like Tony's budgy (sic) smugglers, you can see the outline of his polices.

LMAO, yes and he has it firmly in hand most of the time as he practices his lines in front of the mirror.  "Magic Mirror tell me today, have all my toe cutters had fun at play"  

Elantra, and MM, you are so right, and the glaringly obvious disparity between the have's and have not's in Johnny's last year of Govt, demonstrates exactly who paid for the surplus.  Us !!  Average Aussies went without to fund that position, while the Mining companies were given the concession of all concessions.  Our wealth at $1.00 in $7.00.  The previous Labour Govt charged $1.00 in $3.00.  It's self evident who was favoured in that little back room deal yes?  Why are the mining companies paying so little since the Howard Govt eh?  How do they reconcile that with the NATIONAL interests?  Under Abbott, they'll probably be paying .50 cents in $7.00.  I'd like this issue debated given that it concerns short sheeting Australia's return on their own wealth.

And lest we forget, During the last two years of the Howard Govt. the richest 200 Australians announced RECORD profits of 22% & 26% respectively on the back of the commodities boom.  I posted a point form glimpse of how Average Aussies were fairing in the same Year Little Johnny was Telling us 'We'd never been better off".  Where I live, the unemployment was out of control - 23 jobs advertised per week with 12,000 job seekers.  We had one of the highest foreclosure figures in the country, the lowest wage rates, and no access to any services because Johnny had literally starved them dry from the Fed level down.  Meanwhile Johnny and Stone were asserting that we had a 'Once in a Lifetime' labour market and anyone not employed was simply 'work avoidant'.  I wrote to Howard at the time with statistics, pointing out that with 23 jobs per week and 12,000 job seekers, "Work was avoiding us".  (btw, I wasn't unemployed thankfully, but many many of my fellow residents were)  

His Govt. robbed 1billion dollars from the public health budget and gave it to the Private Health market (this in a time when the wealthy, or otherwise better off, didn't really need such biased concessions).  

In fact, I'll go back and do an analysis as I did previously, on exactly how Johnny robbed Peter (The Aussie Punters), to Pay Paul (The Aussie Rich).  It should then be self evident how Johnny was able to put us into surplus.  Nero fiddles, Rome Burns.  

Abbott's now proposing to rob another billion out of the National Public Health Budget?  What's changed?  They can't tax mining.  Oh heavens no, let's rob the public purse instead and provide sub standard 2nd world health & hospital standards instead ?  

But as I said, I'll go and get the actual factual evidence so you can figure it out for yourself.  Any Govt that has to Rob people of basic services while advantaging the rich in every direction is not acting in the National Interest.  I challenge both parties to bring the issue of mining remuneration to the next debate.  Let's see which of the two kings are wearing no clothes.

Here here!!
Title: Re: The ELECTION Thread
Post by: bnwt on August 03, 2010, 11:57:20 AM
No Second Debate

as soon to be PM Tony Abbott says

"You can't change the rules just because you're in trouble. Labor had the chance ... and frankly things have moved on.

I can't be expected to know whether it's the real Julia or someone else talking and when she said no (to 3 debates), I thought she meant no".
Title: Re: The ELECTION Thread
Post by: shyer on August 03, 2010, 12:05:59 PM
No Julia is a lifetime leftie from the commo student unions. No need to tell the truth commies NEVER tell the truth.
Title: Re: The ELECTION Thread
Post by: bnwt on August 03, 2010, 01:31:31 PM
Tanner tight-lipped on leak allegations

He says he does not think the leaks have been damaging to the Labor Party

http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2010/08/03/2971850.htm?section=justin
Title: Re: The ELECTION Thread
Post by: bnwt on August 03, 2010, 02:28:30 PM
Mr Abbott says Ms Gillard has missed her chance for further debates.

"You can't change the rules just because you're in trouble," he said.

"She said no repeatedly and when she said no I thought she meant no."

"Are you suggesting to me that when it comes to Julia, no doesn't mean no?"

(http://i289.photobucket.com/albums/ll208/bouddiebay/Screenshot2010-08-03at22551PM.png)
Title: Re: The ELECTION Thread
Post by: elantra on August 03, 2010, 03:16:15 PM
Tanner tight-lipped on leak allegations

He says he does not think the leaks have been damaging to the Labor Party

http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2010/08/03/2971850.htm?section=justin

http://www.optuszoo.com.au/news/175716/gaffe-takes-shine-off-baby-leave-plan.html
Title: Re: The ELECTION Thread
Post by: bnwt on August 03, 2010, 03:49:39 PM
(http://i289.photobucket.com/albums/ll208/bouddiebay/Screenshot2010-08-03at34715PM.png)
Title: Re: The ELECTION Thread
Post by: Rebel*1* on August 03, 2010, 04:05:03 PM
You know shyer, it offends my intelligence, and no doubt others who believe in a 'fair go' for all Aussies rather than just themselves, to be called commies.  What it demonstrates is your own ignorance mate.  Define what it is you think a commie is, and how Gillard resembles either the philosophy on one hand, vs the policies adopted by and imposed by Communist states on the other in actual practice?  Do you even appreciate the difference?  (See China example on this Morning's news to see the difference in real time) I object to China's communist regime and its human rights violations against its own people.  We will never see that kind of injustice here.  

Australia is an Egalitarian society by comparison.  Is that too commie for you? If so too bad, we just are.   Do you even know what it means?  Let me take the pressure off.  (I warn you, it does resemble certain aspects of socialist and communist theory,  but that's where the resemblance ends)

*the doctrine of the equality of mankind and the desirability of political and economic and social equality
*The political doctrine that holds that all people in a society should have equal rights from birth
* egalitarian - a person who believes in the equality of all people
* egalitarian - classless: favoring social equality; "a classless society"

BTW, I believe in the above philosophy, and that's exactly what I'm arguing.  A fair go for all Aussies, not just the Rich that the Libs ALWAYS favour at our expense.  It is not communist to subscribe to an egalitarian fair go for all.  If the Rich are increasing their net wealth on the back of the elitist mining lobby, then we should get our FAIR share for our un-renewable resources.  It's Not commie, not leftist.  It's Egalitarian.  A fair go.  Knock that.

There are many more definitions but they all turn out the same way.  Long way from communism as a theory or a practice under a communist regime.    Are you implying that Julia Gillard wants to impose a Communist state?  

So, if we are in fact an Egalitarian society, with a national pride in the good old Aussie 'Fair Go', then are we in fact all commies by your definition for subscribing to those philosophies?  Or is it Just Julia?

Right now, China (a communist regime) is so far away from 'egalitarianism' it's not funny, and yet you imagine they are one in the same thing?  You need to do some studies in sociology and history.  That's obvious

Title: Re: The ELECTION Thread
Post by: Rebel*1* on August 03, 2010, 04:32:30 PM
LOL.  Speaking sociology to those who know the difference, I have to laugh thinking back to Obama's promise to 'Redistribute Wealth' fairly.  lmao.  I said to my other half at the time, my god, someone is going to put out a contract on this guy for even mentioning such 'offensive words' in the presence of the rich.  Redistribute wealth ?  My gord, he must be a Commie right?  lol.  We can't have a world where there isn't a privileged elite stockpiling the Worlds wealth.  

BTW.  Michael Moore has put out a new documentary.  Love that guy.  He approaches someone high up in the Stock Exchange or similar and asks 'Where is all the money'?  I haven't seen it yet, but you have to love that guy for asking the bloody obvious questions.

Where DID all the billions of dollars go in the (latest of many historically) US LED stock market melt downs?  Was it even real?  If it was, then WHO HAS GOT ALL THE MONEY?????  The world was just held at ransom over BILLIONS of dollars that went somewhere.  Where? Whose got it and why do an elite few get to hold the world at ransom and plunge us into a World recession?  Show me the Money !!!!
Title: Re: The ELECTION Thread
Post by: Rebel*1* on August 03, 2010, 05:50:30 PM
No Second Debate

as soon to be PM Tony Abbott says

"You can't change the rules just because you're in trouble. Labor had the chance ... and frankly things have moved on.

I can't be expected to know whether it's the real Julia or someone else talking and when she said no (to 3 debates), I thought she meant no".


Typical. What he doesn't think that the public want this debate?  Maybe we have to make A MUCH BIGGER NOISE THEN !!! And this time, let's include the Greens OK?  They are a legitimate party, I don't subscribe one way or another, but they have legitimate issues that I do subscribe to and wish to keep on the table.  Come on Julia, Come on Tony, we want a debate and you should include Bob Brown this time.  Let's get the cards on the table.  (btw I've sent a link to this thread to the greens and am sending the same link to the Libs and ALP).  I can't speak on behalf of all Australians, but in the name of Egalitarian Govt, I ask all of you (them) to debate fair remuneration for our resources, to take the pressure off tax payers in much overdue infrastructure investment.  Unreasonable?  Australia is independently wealthy. We own the resources Howard sold for a song, and now Abbott wants to perpetuate. I ask, you, how is that an economically sound position to take?  We own the resources, Is $3.00 in $7.00 too much to ask for?
Title: Re: The ELECTION Thread
Post by: bnwt on August 03, 2010, 06:49:28 PM
Rebel

with reference to you statement

(btw I've sent a link to this thread to the greens and am sending the same link to the Libs and ALP)

while it is highly unlikely any political party would bother reading or even take the slightest bit on notice of anything said in this discussion I believe you have no right to have sent these links to anyone and doing this have breached the accepted protocol of a forum like this

Title: Re: The ELECTION Thread
Post by: *smee* on August 03, 2010, 06:53:32 PM
Rebel , if you are going to keep using the figures $1 in $3 and $1 in $7 etc you have to look at all the figures you cant just pluck the ones that suit your arguement

if you read this article it gives a different angle on how much the mining companies are actually paying in taxes http://www.theaustralian.com.au/business/opinion/back-up-numbers-needed-to-dispel-doubts/story-e6frg9p6-1225874222885

in particular I draw everyones attention to these statements from the above link
The issue is complex. But back-of-the-envelope calculations using this data suggest that mining company royalties and corporate profit taxes as a share of mining company pre-tax profits have actually increased over the past decade - from $1 in $4 of profit to $1 in $3 of profit.

Separate calculations by The Australian suggest the latest share of royalties in pre-tax mining company profits are about the level of a decade ago at $1 in $9 of mining company profits.


you must also understand that apart from these taxes they also have built a lot of infrastructure , one example being the railway line that runs throughout the Pilbara region of Western Australia .... they paid for all that , ok its on government land but the rail line will stay there for ever , they also pay money to the local businesses in mining towns such as Newman each year , the Hospital there is owned and run by bhp ... it will remain if they pull out .... they own and run the only power station there ... that will remain if they pull out , sure probably half the population at present work for BHP but the other half of the population of that town also use the facilities...

I am not saying that there is not some validity in the mines paying more , how much more I am not sure .... but I do know the figure quoted of $1 in $7 compared to $1 in $3 is not the be all and end all of their contribution , and apart from their direct employment having the mines operational actually creates many , many other jobs ................
if companies of the ilk of BHP and Rio Tinto etc decided to cease operations our Country would be in a lot more strife that having to worry about a mining super tax , the flow on effect that it would have on unemployment and therefore social security could cripple us .........

all I am saying is that the situation needs to be looked at more in depth that just bandying these same figures around constantly
Title: Re: The ELECTION Thread
Post by: Rebel*1* on August 03, 2010, 06:59:09 PM
bnwt, at least I care to do more than just posting Political propaganda.  I suggest that anyone who cares, email the Greens, ALP, Media, Libs (the last two seemingly one in the same thing), and state your views and what you want to see debated.   Apparently bnwt, you seem to believe whatever you're told.  That's your problem I suggest.   You need to consider the NATIONAL interest.  Tony wants to give mining a free for all, when it will fund all necessary NATIONAL infrastructure at MUCH more than $1,00 in $7.00.  Can you possibly argue that Aussies (irrespective of political leanings) DON'T deserve at least that much for their own resources in the face of infrastructure collapse nationally?  The ALP who presented that obvious imbalance, (in insisting on  more than $1.00 in $7.00), do indeed have the NATIONAL interests at heart.  Someone has to fund it. 

Who do you think you are kidding?  At least I care enough to do something, irrespective of how intangible or worthless you want to portray the effort.  I'm only one.  I hope many are making these concerns known in terms of any issues that should be debated in the NATIONAL interest.  I don't want you or I to have to fund infrastructure upgrade when we have Natural wealth that should be doing that for us.  Is that so hard to understand?
Title: Re: The ELECTION Thread
Post by: Rebel*1* on August 03, 2010, 07:08:20 PM
Rebel , if you are going to keep using the figures $1 in $3 and $1 in $7 etc you have to look at all the figures you cant just pluck the ones that suit your arguement

Smee, these figures were publicly released and apparently the public is supposed to believe everything printed in the media according to the obvious Liberal right wing philosophy on this thread from the outset.   If there IS more to it, then I suggest to you that it should be debated by all three parties with any influence, Right Left and Green.  Fair enough?  It's not just my argument, the greens just opened their campaign stating as much.    

The ALP can qualify how they came up with those MEDIA released figures and the LIbs can address why they are against Taxing the mining companies for a fair share.  Also fair enough?  Remember?  Media is gospel according to some.  I say the major three parties need to debate out this issue including fair remuneration and the veritable free for all in terms of access at such a small return to the Australian people.  All I see is the Mining Industry running this country.  

You know what?  The POWERFUL mining lobby, need to come out of the closet, cut out the LIBERAL PARTY middle man and register their own party.   Something like the "Exploit Australia's Mineral wealth for a Sixpence" Party.  I'm sure they'd be popular.  Don't you?
Title: Re: The ELECTION Thread
Post by: mandurahmum on August 03, 2010, 07:15:08 PM
You know shyer, it offends my intelligence, and no doubt others who believe in a 'fair go' for all Aussies rather than just themselves, to be called commies.  What it demonstrates is your own ignorance mate.  Define what it is you think a commie is, and how Gillard resembles either the philosophy on one hand, vs the policies adopted by and imposed by Communist states on the other in actual practice?  Do you even appreciate the difference?  (See China example on this Morning's news to see the difference in real time) I object to China's communist regime and its human rights violations against its own people.  We will never see that kind of injustice here. 

I agree - at least this time they did not use a ridiculously large font to express their 'opinion'.

I think its childish to call people names, just because they have a different opinion to others.

It also adds nothing to the debate
Title: Re: The ELECTION Thread
Post by: *smee* on August 03, 2010, 07:15:37 PM
 If there IS more to it, then I suggest to you that it should be debated by all three parties with any influence, Right Left and Green.

well based on the info contained in the link it appears as though there may well be more to it ...

Smee, these figures were publicly released and apparently the public is supposed to believe everything printed in the media

Yes they were publically released but that is only one section of the figures
as I said you cant just pluck the parts of the figures that suit a particular arguement the bigger picture needs to be taken into consideration
Title: Re: The ELECTION Thread
Post by: Rebel*1* on August 03, 2010, 07:19:10 PM
In the meantime they use the wealth they gain from our resources to EXPLOIT and Molest the election Process?  How many industries actually take on a Govt. via the media?  Only the richest right?  The POWERFUL mining industry.  the Ones who are ACTUALLY running this country.  I say the Mining mouths need to but out of this election.  Threatening productivity?  Oh give me a break. They can't mine it without creating jobs.  The value of the commodity vs the labour market cost of mining it (whether via Australian workers or imported workers) are two separate things  The mining industry rely more on us than we do on them.  Argue that logic.  They are however, the only industry in Australia, able to topple a PM and divert the outcome of a Federal Election = 22 Million vs the Powerful mining lobby and what they're prepared to do to prejudice this election?.  

No offense intended. I'm just saying that if you apply standards to one party then apply them to the other for the NATIONAL interest. Be an informed voter.  We are all Aussies.  And we're ALL under pressure.  That's a fact.  Rural Aussies in particular.  We need to fund infrastructure upgrade Smee, and if we charge an adequate amount for our mineral wealth, (which Rudd campaigned for in the first place and was then met with the mining industry's 'media based FEAR campaign' over the bag of beads known as jobs)  then you and I will be paying for it.  Irrespective of our political leanings.   It's in the National Interest for the Mining Lobby to BUTT OUT, of this election and expect to pay their fair share under ALP.  Under Liberal, our infrastructure is what is going to suffer.  Can't you see that?  Liberal Labour, who cares?  We're Aussies in the same leaky boat !!! The only way to fund infrastructure is to charge more for our unrenewable resources.  Not my argument, even the Greens have outlined that fact.   IT'S ALL going OS.  unbelievable.
Title: Re: The ELECTION Thread
Post by: bnwt on August 03, 2010, 07:26:06 PM
Rebel

I am not posting propaganda rather I am highlighting examples of labor's blunders ... labor keep handing it out on a platter

honestly I am dumbfounded at how badly their campaign is being run ........... every day they deliver a fresh load of ammo for Abbott to use against them

I expect they will be another good leak this week ... most likely on friday - just in time to do maximum damage for when the pollsters do their interviews

Title: Re: The ELECTION Thread
Post by: Rebel*1* on August 03, 2010, 07:35:35 PM
I am not posting propaganda rather I am highlighting examples of labor's blunders ... labor keep handing it out on a platter

Unfortunately that's all you offer.  Biased Liberal party propaganda. Nothing objective.  As I said, when I get the time in coming days I'll post historical links to the ways in which the LIbs have played dirty pool.

In the interim, Are you willing to actually address on your own merit the issues I've just presented?  Or are you a media marionette?  Only posting your opinion by defacto and by way of biased negative media propaganda that serves your own agenda??  

Do you agree that Australia Needs National Infrastructure Upgrade = investment?  

How do you propose that this necessary upgrade should be funded? By us?  Are you actually able to have an opinion of your own?  Can you deny that Australia (left right indifferent) needs infrastructure funding?   Can you dispute that Australia's own Mineral wealth could and should be funding this?  I don't care about political leanings I care about Australia realising her own Wealth and our people no longer having to fund infrastructure that the Mining companies are robbing us of at such a pittance.  Email the Greens if you care to debate this objectively,  I'm sure they'll explain their policy on this specific issue.   The mining companies are the only winners in all this.
Title: Re: The ELECTION Thread
Post by: *smee* on August 03, 2010, 07:38:50 PM
How many industries actually take on a Govt. via the media?  Only the richest right?  The POWERFUL mining industry.  the Ones who are ACTUALLY running this country

I agree , but the same could be said about the unions , and the Labor party seem to be heavily infuenced by them and dont mind when they campaign against an old Liberal policy ..... workchoice etc

you cant have it one way and not the other


Once again I am not saying I agree with work choices , merely debating the difference/similarities between the advertising campains of the mining companies v's those of the Unions and what influence they have

Title: Re: The ELECTION Thread
Post by: Rebel*1* on August 03, 2010, 07:49:21 PM
LOL, now unionism?  Give me a break smee, they have a minimal role in the workforce generally, you know that.  Membership is something less than 20% of the National labour force, but as usual I'm sure I'll have to go check that right?     This whole union thing is all ARTIFACT.  Scare mongering.  You are no doubt a worker as am I.  Do we deserve a fair shake in any employment contract ?  or not?  Should the conditions favour the employer only? or be equally equitable to the worker????????.  Can we agree on that much, devoid of the tiny percentage of union members in most industries generally?  Do we deserve fair work conditions and recourse when employers bite?  Well, Howard abolished that basic right.    Work choices undermined our rights of 100 years (INCLUDING Workers compensation rights).  All workers have now is what they've managed to 'rake back' under the reinstated labour Govt that installed those basic work rights in the first place.  As  a worker, I ask you, are you willing to assume a forward position for the sake of an employer?  Or would you expect to have some rights of fair recourse represented in legislation????? 
Title: Re: The ELECTION Thread
Post by: Rebel*1* on August 03, 2010, 07:55:08 PM
Yes they were publically released but that is only one section of the figures
as I said you cant just pluck the parts of the figures that suit a particular arguement the bigger picture needs to be taken into consideration


I AM looking at the bigger picture.  According to bnwt and others we need to take anything printed in media as 'Gospel'.  On that basis, it seems to me that those figures must therefore be GOSPEL' and  the Libs have yet to refute those figures.   Have they?  Brown has come out confirming it in his campaign launch.  Am I asking too much to have the LIbs deny it?  When our infrastructure is literally crippled after 12 years of Johnny robbing the National Infrastructure to achieve a surplus on our sweat, whilst improving nothing?  Oh, that is , other than RECORD profits to Australia's elite 200 richest?  What a hero?  Fiddle on Nero.  We'll all go get the fire hoses out.
Title: Re: The ELECTION Thread
Post by: *smee* on August 03, 2010, 08:15:17 PM
On that basis, it seems to me that those figures must therefore be GOSPEL' and  the Libs have yet to refute those figures.   Have they?

Have you read the rest of the article that I linked up there ^^^^^^^ that puts these figures into a differebt light to what you have portrayed ... you have plucked the figures only that suit your arguement ... read the rest ....

 You are no doubt a worker as am I.... that is an incorrect assumption ,  I am not a worker , I have been a worker but most of my working life has been in the role of the employer , at present I am early retired but may well be back in either capacity at some stage over the next 20 years of my working life that I have  .... butI  have had heaps to do with unions ..... unoinism is not a bad thing if operated properly , but somewhere along the line the union officials got their roles mixed up ... in short instead of the unions now acting based on what the employees/their members  want and ask the union to do they now instigate things and tell their members ... you just have to listen to these union leaders like Joe Macdonald or whatever his name is from the CMEFU in WA when these guys refer to the members they say MY   members not our members ...its all about them .... very few union decisions are now based on what the members actually want more what they are told they have to do .....anyhow thats not the point ...you seem quite happy that the unions can run an ad campaign against Liberal but not the mining ind  against Labor .

you appear to have 2 sets of rules
Title: Re: The ELECTION Thread
Post by: mandurahmum on August 03, 2010, 08:24:24 PM
smee - your so right about Joe Macdonald - he is the type of union leader that gives unions a bad name.  He is just a thug imo.

I do know about this man personally - I used to work for an asbestos removal company - and I am sure that the members of that union would be shocked at some of the things that went on.

I could also say the same about Kevin Reynolds - he is also no saint imo.

I wish I had kept some sort of proof - I could have brought him down - big time
Title: Re: The ELECTION Thread
Post by: *smee* on August 03, 2010, 08:46:07 PM
yes MM Kevin Reynolds was the one I was initially thinking of but his name eluded me ...

him and Macdonald both pissinthesamepot anyway
Title: Re: The ELECTION Thread
Post by: mandurahmum on August 03, 2010, 09:29:17 PM
yes MM Kevin Reynolds was the one I was initially thinking of but his name eluded me ...

him and Macdonald both pissinthesamepot anyway

They certainly do - it has always surprised me that they were not outed a long time ago. 
Title: Re: The ELECTION Thread
Post by: bnwt on August 03, 2010, 10:04:26 PM
Rebel

I realise you wont like my response to your question "Are you willing to actually address on your own merit the issues I've just presented"?

I can hear you gasp when I tell you the issues talked about in an election campaign are of little concern to the average voter

let me put it this way ........ imagine it's more like two singers performing a song

it's all about the performance, the lighting, the costumes, the way they present themselves on the stage ... while the meaning of the words in the verses are worth some points the listener will have forgotten them when they actually put their pencils on the ballot paper ... they might recall some of the chorus words if they are catchy and have been repeated enough

like it or not .................. it's all about show biz - not 10,000 word political manifestos

one clever image or clever line is far more effective

like "record spending, record debt & getting rid of kevin rudd in record time"

let me say it again who ever is running labor's campaign don't have a clue ... they keep providing fantastic material to work with  ( old julia vs new julia ) ... what idiot told her to say she's now "new" julia
 
Title: Re: The ELECTION Thread
Post by: Rebel*1* on August 03, 2010, 10:41:59 PM
Lol, without the labour party initially, kids would be cleaning chimney's lol.  what it is today represents no more than 20%, of the workforce nationally, but as LOBBY GROUPS GO, that's a significant amount of working people who DO subscribe to union COLLECTIVE BARGAINING?  the other 80% of the workforce are on their own by their own volition, but they can thank the ALP for having set the standards of FAIR work conditions and rights from their very beginnings.  what do libs have in their history that distinguishes them in terms of similar social equity in the name of egalitarianism ???

Would you like to hear about work conditions before the ALP formed a collective resistance against such unfairness?  Historically and factually speaking that is.  i  You'll have to give me a few days to educate you as I have other things to do.
Title: Re: The ELECTION Thread
Post by: Rebel*1* on August 03, 2010, 10:51:32 PM
LOL, I'm not gasping, I'm amazed that you think a National election has anything to do with such subjective bullshit.  I'm voting on what is good for Australia.  There in a nutshell, is where my loyalties exist.  Liberal labour greens who cares.  We (The Aussie People) need infrastructure NATIONWIDE, and we have adequate resources to fund that.   The only question is, who is standing in the way of us getting our fair share?  Libs?  The powerful elite mining lobby who?  Do you deny that we need major infrastructure investment?.  Bnwt, I've seen you flip flop everytime something objective is presented in argument to your obviously biased liberal view.  Is it time to PERHAPS consider the more egalitarian views of others?  like your fellow Aussies? Or Are we NOT an Egalitarian society?  You choose.
Title: Re: The ELECTION Thread
Post by: Poddy on August 03, 2010, 10:52:17 PM
Hey Reb,

Are you saying that the Labs are relying on their past laurals?

Past history is but a mere indication of what has happened and is in no way an indication of that past performance continuing into the future.

I could remind you of the Whitlam years the Hawke years and the Keeting years not a [pretty sight huh ?
Title: Re: The ELECTION Thread
Post by: Rebel*1* on August 03, 2010, 10:55:52 PM
Well if you feel that the Whitlam years have anything to do with this election, in 2010 then  do tell !!!
Title: Re: The ELECTION Thread
Post by: Poddy on August 03, 2010, 11:03:59 PM
Ummm......

You have missed the point completely.

You were dredginig past performance of the labour movment an what I was pointing out that past performance has nothing to do with expected future performance.

Carpe diem
Title: Re: The ELECTION Thread
Post by: callostemma on August 03, 2010, 11:06:04 PM
Unfortunately   the younger generation  vote for a party which fulfills their needs or ideals at the time.   As they age they continue to vote for this party regardless of how the party politics change .  My dad is still voting for the Liberal party of his youth, and those policies.     People still see the labour party as the working peoples champion,  the greens for the enviroment  etc  First impressions seem to be lasting impressions :hunchback:
Title: Re: The ELECTION Thread
Post by: Poddy on August 03, 2010, 11:15:59 PM
Elections are all smoke and mirrors each candidate tries to hold up a distorted mirror image of their opponent and they produce smoke out of their nether regions to hide their own faults.

Modern day elections are an illusionary and false display of democracy in action.
Title: Re: The ELECTION Thread
Post by: Rebel*1* on August 03, 2010, 11:16:52 PM
I only know you by your rather negative reputation on the net in certain circles Poddy.  do you have an axe to grind perhaps?  Or do you intend to debate the issues objectively as I do?
Title: Re: The ELECTION Thread
Post by: *r3830* on August 03, 2010, 11:22:50 PM
Elections are all smoke and mirrors each candidate tries to hold up a distorted mirror image of their opponent and they produce smoke out of their nether regions to hide their own faults.

Poddy - can I borrow the above statement? Will put it to good use..... I promise!

I only know you by your rather negative reputation on the net in certain circles Poddy.  do you have an axe to grind perhaps?

Is the above statement an example of Labor imagination rebel?
Title: Re: The ELECTION Thread
Post by: Poddy on August 03, 2010, 11:26:35 PM
Oh dear !!

Do you mean that my infamy is plastered all over the internet?

Isn't it amazing how misunderstanding ones intentions can be taken as fact by some misinformed people.

Lucky that the opinion of misinformed people has no effect on informed people :)

What gives you the impression that in have 'an axe to grind'?
Title: Re: The ELECTION Thread
Post by: Poddy on August 03, 2010, 11:29:11 PM
Freddie, be my guest :)

But I have been just informed that in certain circles i am infamous :)
Title: Re: The ELECTION Thread
Post by: *r3830* on August 03, 2010, 11:41:35 PM
Many thanks Poddy - and good to see you by the way. It's been quite a while!
Title: Re: The ELECTION Thread
Post by: Poddy on August 03, 2010, 11:48:22 PM
Yes it has been a while, real life needed attendind to
Title: Re: The ELECTION Thread
Post by: Rebel*1* on August 03, 2010, 11:52:00 PM
Your reputation precedes you.  sure to make sure you're never late no doubt.  Care to impede my account on your subjective grounds alone?  that would in fact be in keeping with your reputation, so I'd expect that.  Hey general members, If I don't post anymore.  I'm sure you can put together what happened. LOL.  Poddy didn't like me.  what a shame.   I've heard on the grapevine that he actually runs this forum.  I thought the countess ran the joint.  Must have been misinformed?   Is hearsay admissible on this thread of hearsay?
Title: Re: The ELECTION Thread
Post by: *r3830* on August 03, 2010, 11:59:59 PM
Your reputation precedes you.  sure to make sure you're never late no doubt.  Care to impede my account on your subjective grounds alone?  that would in fact be in keeping with your reputation, so I'd expect that.  Hey general members, If I don't post anymore.  I'm sure you can put together what happened. LOL.  Poddy didn't like me.  what a shame.   I've heard on the grapevine that he actually runs this forum.  I thought the countess ran the joint.  Must have been misinformed?   Is hearsay admissible on this thread of hearsay?

Feel so inclined to debate me or 'cupie' whoever that person be, openly here and now?  And if you suspect me to be this person, why not present evidence to GENERAL members as to how you have come to that conclusion accusing an equally 'general member' as being deserving of your obvious disdain? On your own? or via more covert and collective means?  Do you know something everyday members on this forum don't?   Please, tell us all.  Oh and equally, tell everyone why this 'cupie' person is deserved of your prejudice.  I'm sure we're all dying to know.

If you have any respect or decorum whatsoever in your purely subjective attack, then I suggest you contact me via email to state your allegations, assumptions or whatever else and why that has any relevance to my involvement here as an 'everyday' otherwise, unprivileged member, such as yourself.  For that matter, why it has relevance to my opinion generally as an 'everyday' member.  Boy are you a powerful duck eh?  I feel sorry for this 'cupie' person if you are so hell bent on being so personally vindictive.  Glad I'm not that person.  Or can you demonstrate otherwise?


Rebel...... Would you please care to explain the above comments??? It concerns me greatly when I'm not sure just what a debate is about.
Title: Re: The ELECTION Thread
Post by: Poddy on August 04, 2010, 12:01:05 AM
Pray tell where this 'reputatiion' is gleened from?

 Hey general members, If I don't post anymore.  I'm sure you can put together what happened. LOL.  Poddy didn't like me.

Is the above statement your opinion? On what grounds?
Reb I don't even know you, unless you are here incognito, are you?
Title: Re: The ELECTION Thread
Post by: Rebel*1* on August 04, 2010, 12:05:26 AM
Well according to the standards of this thread, and this forum no justification is needed.  LOL   I hear you run the place and many aren't happy with your brand of cough cough 'fairness'.  Works for Tony, but of course as with Laurie Oaks, I can't really reveal my sources you understand as to who actually said those things about you Poddy?  Ask Roo and Wheels they brought it up, (and where do they stand on the hierarchy I wonder?) I'm sure they know why, they're making this 'affront' and so do you.  Care to tell everyone why you know what's really going on poddy? Of course, I can only go on what I've been told.  I'm also happy to state what I've been told if you care to push it Poddy.  Or will you act behind the scenes to make sure I can't say anything.  My gord, weren't we talking about communist philosophy earlier?  General members if I disappear you know why.  
Title: Re: The ELECTION Thread
Post by: *r3830* on August 04, 2010, 12:09:13 AM
Well according to the standards of this thread, no justification is needed.  LOL

Nice.... and probably the shortest comment you've made on this thread. Could I again refer you to my question a couple of posts back......
Title: Re: The ELECTION Thread
Post by: Rebel*1* on August 04, 2010, 12:17:21 AM
Rebel...... Would you please care to explain the above comments??? It concerns me greatly when I'm not sure just what a debate is about.

Yes absoluetely when i stop having to defend myself against subjective 'parochial' attack. Ask poddy how parochial it actually gets.  General members are not privy apparently to what is motivating this.  But some know.  They're just not telling you.  lol
Title: Re: The ELECTION Thread
Post by: Rebel*1* on August 04, 2010, 12:19:50 AM
If Rebel*1* disappears you'll know that just like Aussie Politics, more influential and bias forces are at work.  Lets' see how it all pans out with one against how many?
Title: Re: The ELECTION Thread
Post by: Poddy on August 04, 2010, 12:30:18 AM
Reb, you are not making a whole lot of sense.

May I reiterate my earlier post?


Reb I don't even know you, unless you are here incognito, are you?

Or will answering that question truthfully compromise the view of your own integrity?
Title: Re: The ELECTION Thread
Post by: mandurahmum on August 04, 2010, 12:30:58 AM
How about we just back to the topic of this thread.  And lets the personal attacks and other bullshit out of it.  Its unncessary
Title: Re: The ELECTION Thread
Post by: Poddy on August 04, 2010, 12:34:55 AM
Good idea Mandi :)
Title: Re: The ELECTION Thread
Post by: Rebel*1* on August 04, 2010, 12:37:35 AM
You might walk that way then too Poddy?

Thank you MM. my sentiments exactly.  I was just minding my own business until otherwise 'attacked by a so called moderator of this site. (so I've heard)  Not a good look really.  Maybe a muzzle would help.  I apologise to those reading this who have no involvement with the 'internal parochialism' of this site.  I was merely defending myself against what I've heard that same parochialism can entail against every day members.  Isn't hearsay a biatch?
Title: Re: The ELECTION Thread
Post by: *Brum6y* on August 04, 2010, 12:42:44 AM
Rebel*1, I am at a loss at understanding how some questions from a member who has had no interaction with you on this site (certainly none on the boards that I have observed) could evoke such a dramatic reaction.

When you say 'attacked', I am at a further loss ... All I have seen are some questions and comments on this thread that are no more or less direct references to the thread discussion, as per the title.


I'm with MM on this ... at least with the political discussion, the guidelines are clearer.
Title: Re: The ELECTION Thread
Post by: *r3830* on August 04, 2010, 12:43:38 AM
pa·ro·chi·al  (p-rk-l)
adj.
1. Of, relating to, supported by, or located in a parish.
2. Of or relating to parochial schools.
3. Narrowly restricted in scope or outlook; provincial: parochial attitudes.


Rebel...... Are you saying that you have joined a new church...... or you're going back into studies again..... or you're stepping back into the box?
Title: Re: The ELECTION Thread
Post by: Rebel*1* on August 04, 2010, 12:49:24 AM
Ask poddy loco, as far as I've been told he knows much more about it than you and I do as mere unprivileged general members.  I won't elaborate, I call upon my detractors to tell you why they are attacking me.. Come on guys?  Lost your backbone? Tell Loco why these allegations and taunts have been leveled and where from , and what they are based on.  I await such illumination in the face of obvious discrimination as a member of this forum.  I'm sure those attacking me can explain their subjective discrimination from behind the scenes.  LOL
Title: Re: The ELECTION Thread
Post by: *Brum6y* on August 04, 2010, 12:56:52 AM
in the face of obvious discrimination as a member of this forum.

I have only seen political argument to-ing and fro-ing ... and the challenge of facts, figures and all that stuff.

I can't see any discrimination, no matter how hard I try ... it's certainly not 'obvious'.  What am I missing?
Title: Re: The ELECTION Thread
Post by: Rebel*1* on August 04, 2010, 01:05:42 AM
Go to the Paymate thread re: wheels and Roo's comments.  I WAS discussing Aussie Politics until OZRT politics obviously interceded and since it has,  Why don't you long standing 'and otherwise privileged members' making these subjective issues focal, explain how that happened to a 'general member'?  I'm sure other general members would be similarly curious.   Who's really running this site Brumby?  Countessa or other factions?
Title: Re: The ELECTION Thread
Post by: *r3830* on August 04, 2010, 01:09:02 AM
Yes - what brumby said!

This set out as a political discussion - as you earlier described - a debate. The old rule of thumb was that one should never argue politics or religion.... as these things were generally pretty deeply rooted in personal opinion and belief. But - a  debate is just that - it's not a personal thing.... or it shouldn't be taken as such, but all players have the opportunity to gain further insight or knowledge from it. Between the lines - I think you would know that rebel.

Rebel...... answer this one honestly..... ARE YOU REALLY TELLO IN DISGUISE?????  :rofl: :roughend:
Title: Re: The ELECTION Thread
Post by: *Brum6y* on August 04, 2010, 01:11:33 AM
Who's really running this site Brumby?  Countessa or other factions?

Why nominate me? I have nothing special to do with this site.
Title: Re: The ELECTION Thread
Post by: Poddy on August 04, 2010, 01:13:50 AM
Reb,

Seeing that you only paid lip service to Mandi's request even though you agreed that it was a good idea,

You have condinued to air what you believe to be attacks on you.

You seem to have singled me out as your attacker.

The following is a copy of all the posts made by me in this whread, please point out what exactly you concider an attack.



Hey Reb,

Are you saying that the Labs are relying on their past laurals?

Past history is but a mere indication of what has happened and is in no way an indication of that past performance continuing into the future.

I could remind you of the Whitlam years the Hawke years and the Keeting years not a [pretty sight huh ?

________________________________________________

Ummm......

You have missed the point completely.

You were dredginig past performance of the labour movment an what I was pointing out that past performance has nothing to do with expected future performance.

Carpe diem

___________________________________________________      
Oh dear !!

Do you mean that my infamy is plastered all over the internet?

Isn't it amazing how misunderstanding ones intentions can be taken as fact by some misinformed people.

Lucky that the opinion of misinformed people has no effect on informed people  

What gives you the impression that in have 'an axe to grind'?

__________________________________________________

Elections are all smoke and mirrors each candidate tries to hold up a distorted mirror image of their opponent and they produce smoke out of their nether regions to hide their own faults.

Modern day elections are an illusionary and false display of democracy in action.
__________________________________________________      
Freddie, be my guest  

But I have been just informed that in certain circles i am infamous  

______________________________________________________      



Yes it has been a while, real life needed attendind to
______________________________________

Pray tell where this 'reputatiion' is gleened from?

 Hey general members, If I don't post anymore.  I'm sure you can put together what happened. LOL.  Poddy didn't like me.

Is the above statement your opinion? On what grounds?
Reb I don't even know you, unless you are here incognito, are you?
__________________________________________________

Reb, you are not making a whole lot of sense.

May I reiterate my earlier post?


Reb I don't even know you, unless you are here incognito, are you?

Or will answering that question truthfully compromise the view of your own integrity?

__________________________________________
Good idea Mandi  
   

Title: Re: The ELECTION Thread
Post by: *Brum6y* on August 04, 2010, 01:17:31 AM
Go to the Paymate thread

Apologies.  I hadn't caught up on that thread this afternoon.
Title: Re: The ELECTION Thread
Post by: Rebel*1* on August 04, 2010, 01:21:02 AM
Yes - what brumby said!

This set out as a political discussion - as you earlier described - a debate. The old rule of thumb was that one should never argue politics or religion.... as these things were generally pretty deeply rooted in personal opinion and belief. But - a  debate is just that - it's not a personal thing.... or it shouldn't be taken as such, but all players have the opportunity to gain further insight or knowledge from it. Between the lines - I think you would know that rebel.

Rebel...... answer this one honestly..... ARE YOU REALLY TELLO IN DISGUISE?????  :rofl: :roughend:

LMAO no, but from what I've heard he wouldn't mind a female alter ego.  As for your remarks re: poddy it harks back to previous times when this whole forum was about his personal vendetta's against one member in particular and various other infamous members along the way, and has been ever since (or so I've been told)  hearsay really is a biatch isnt' it?  Do you really want to get down Poddy?  Your move bud, tell everyone how it is you assume you know what you know about an otherwise 'anonymous' general member'.    And then I'll tell them what I know. 
Title: Re: The ELECTION Thread
Post by: *Brum6y* on August 04, 2010, 01:28:04 AM
As for the identity allegations, I can liken that to hearing someone talking and saying "I know that voice!".  You don't need fingerprint and DNA evidence to make an identification.

I will admit that, upon reflection, I cannot argue against the allegation.  But do I have definitive proof - site logs, IP addresses, etc.?

No.

It does not mean the allegation is incorrect, just not categorically provable via available means.
Title: Re: The ELECTION Thread
Post by: Poddy on August 04, 2010, 01:30:04 AM
For "an otherwise 'anonymous' general member".

You seem to be relying a lot on what you have "been told"

You have also sidestepped my request to point out any attack made on you by me furthermore you have evaded my question asking if you are here 'incognito'

Why is that?
Title: Re: The ELECTION Thread
Post by: Rebel*1* on August 04, 2010, 01:41:28 AM
Why is it that as moderator of this site (or so I've been told) these attacks of yours are legendary?  are you a moderator on this site?  Ive' been told you are, what a shining example of objectivity, so where is your admin?   do you act outside of her sanction? Seems to me I'm being ganged up on by a moderator of this site, and the privileged members who seemingly have some other private place to discuss general members.  Just a suspicion mind you .  You are free to refute that there is such private forum on this site.   I can only go on what I've been told.    All things being equal, it also seems to me that it matches what I've been told to expect.  Poddy, if you want to tell everyone who I am,  according to your access' or evidence', then do so, Breach my privacy in your role as 'self appointed admin'  Or so I've been told.   Want to keep playing this game?  Jeese (makes note to change ID to riff raff) I'm sure that's who I'm going to be next?  We watch, we remember.    should I expect a similar assault Poddy?  Like I said, mate you're infamous and all I was doing was minding my own business.
Title: Re: The ELECTION Thread
Post by: Rebel*1* on August 04, 2010, 01:50:25 AM
BTW can you privileged ones please email admin ?  I certainly have. 
Title: Re: The ELECTION Thread
Post by: *Brum6y* on August 04, 2010, 01:53:42 AM
BTW can you privileged ones please email admin ?  I certainly have. 

About what?

All I've seen is Poddy ask topic related questions - and you have gone off like a skyrocket.
Title: Re: The ELECTION Thread
Post by: *Brum6y* on August 04, 2010, 01:56:50 AM
... and other members have simply said, in effect, "I know that voice".
Title: Re: The ELECTION Thread
Post by: Poddy on August 04, 2010, 02:05:48 AM
Reb,

I have in no way attacked you, I dint have a clue who you are.

If you feel attacked, all I can put it down to is paranoia coupled with what you have been told.

My suggestion to you is act on first hand knowledge.

People who hide behind innuendo are only fooling themselves, most people see through that as though it were glass.
Title: Re: The ELECTION Thread
Post by: Rebel*1* on August 04, 2010, 02:17:23 AM
LOL, and therein lies your first lie.  Aren't you a moderator?  Then you know, dream on.  I've seen you play this game with many before me. I know your rules of engagement.  Time for a rude shock and it's coming to a place near you very shortly in a very real way Poddling? lol.
Title: Re: The ELECTION Thread
Post by: *Brum6y* on August 04, 2010, 02:44:12 AM
Whether moderator or not, there has been no disclosure.

If any suspicion has been raised, it has been as a direct result to your own words and your reactions. Nothing more.



The only person responsible for any public opinions, interpretations, allegations or whatever - is, quite simply, you, Rebel*1.
Title: Re: The ELECTION Thread
Post by: Rebel*1* on August 04, 2010, 02:48:12 AM
... and other members have simply said, in effect, "I know that voice".

Want to delve deeper?  want everyone else to know why it matters to people like yourself and Poddy?  LOL.. Come on brumby, tell general members what this is all about.  Wheels raised, it Roo perpetuated it and  you are defending it.  How unusual  LOL  What you need to do is email admin and tell them why I need to be banished.  When I disappear the rest of you will know how that was achieved, even foretold. 
Title: Re: The ELECTION Thread
Post by: *Brum6y* on August 04, 2010, 02:53:12 AM

 email admin and tell them why I need to be banished. 


Where did that come from..?

I haven't heard ANYONE even suggest that... are you needing to create reasons for things?

Like I said elsewhere: "You aren't as big in the minds of others as you seem to think you are"


... and to underline that point - I'm going to bed.
Title: Re: The ELECTION Thread
Post by: Rebel*1* on August 04, 2010, 02:56:56 AM
Probably best that way when you have nothing but subjective prejudice based on assumption to add.  You E & C types need muzzling. Admin should be making sure of it. 
Title: Re: The ELECTION Thread
Post by: HellWest'nCrooked on August 04, 2010, 06:21:11 AM

Time for a rude shock and it's coming to a place near you very shortly in a very real way Poddling? lol.

Is that a threat Rebel??    I certainly hope not, maybe it is computer talk that I don't understand, I certainly hope so.

Rebel......if you don't post here anymore I would be presuming that  is because  "you decided not to post here anymore"

Westie  :ivanhoe:
Title: Re: The ELECTION Thread
Post by: bnwt on August 04, 2010, 08:08:10 AM
Our election survey results are in


the opinions of over 16,000 voters ......... http://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/election/our-election-survey-results-are-in/story-fn5zm695-1225900828979
Title: Re: The ELECTION Thread
Post by: *r3830* on August 04, 2010, 09:00:01 AM
Tobacco firms fund anti-Labor ad campaign


THE Australian tobacco industry will secretly fund a $5 million anti-Labor advertising blitz cooked up with the help of Liberal Party strategists for the final two weeks of the campaign.




http://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/election/tobacco-firms-fund-anti-labor-ad-campaign/story-fn5zm695-1225900798636 (http://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/election/tobacco-firms-fund-anti-labor-ad-campaign/story-fn5zm695-1225900798636)
Title: Re: The ELECTION Thread
Post by: shyer on August 04, 2010, 09:48:18 AM
....I agree - at least this time they did not use a ridiculously large font to express their 'opinion'......

It also adds nothing to the debate

Interesting logic MM my use of a large font to highlight my opinion "offends" you thereforth I added nothing to the debate .

More honest summary, shoot the messanger because you do not like the message.

I do not really care who wins the election for the lower house ALP and LIbs are both grabbing center court. Never have I seen a Labour "promice" to hand power from eduction unions back to the local community. While Libs promice a NEW tax to fund paid parental leave.

WHAT I do care about is greens being handed the balance of power by LABOUR desparate at all costs to stay in Government. Most Green voters mean well the just do not understand they are voting for communists like Rhiannon for NSW.
 
From the post which has a link you found offensive on page 19 here .


" Before Rhiannon became an upper house MP, the now-disgraced Labor left-winger Ian Macdonald set the ball rolling. Rhiannon, he reminded Parliament, was a former member of the Socialist Party of Australia, a pro-Moscow breakaway from the disintegrating Communist Party of Australia.
"Since the disintegration of the Soviet Union, Ms Lee Rhiannon has led an absolute takeover of the NSW Greens. This attack is aimed at consigning the legitimate environmentalists to political limbo."

That post also highlights the communist economic policies of the greens.

On an another issue I do not care if rebel is a cupie doll . All I can see is they both come from the same communist slave labour camp factory. Repeating ad nausem from the commisars handbook relevance or truthful not being important.
Title: Re: The ELECTION Thread
Post by: bnwt on August 04, 2010, 10:02:20 AM
Gillard's new feisty direction


http://www.abc.net.au/news/video/2010/08/03/2972557.htm


new ??? ........... the only difference I see is she's no longer wearing the pearls

I must say I'm surprised how savagely Kerry ripped into her

the most enjoyable part is when she squirms about not contacting krudd
Title: Re: The ELECTION Thread
Post by: bnwt on August 04, 2010, 10:31:40 AM
Leave Julia alone


http://player.video.news.com.au/couriermail/#1558639080
Title: Re: The ELECTION Thread
Post by: *r3830* on August 04, 2010, 11:08:18 AM
Thanks bnwt for posting that link to Ms Gillard's 7.30 report interview. I wasn't home to see it. It was interesting wasn't it. She certainly must have a busy schedule..... couldn't spend five lousy minutes with the man who I believe would have played the major role in dealing with the GFC here. Perhaps the phone transmission in the toilet wasn't too good? Perhaps she doesn't use the rest room at all?
Title: Re: The ELECTION Thread
Post by: bnwt on August 04, 2010, 11:16:15 AM
r3830

the interview really exposes what a cold cunning conniving two faced person she is
Title: Re: The ELECTION Thread
Post by: *r3830* on August 04, 2010, 11:19:53 AM
What was that old saying..... You can fool some of the people some of the time....

Your earlier results link put that quite well I thought.
Title: Re: The ELECTION Thread
Post by: callostemma on August 04, 2010, 11:52:52 AM
Has anyone considered voting for the smaller parties, and I don't mean the greens.
They may rule by flipping a coin, but at least they will have a 50/50 chance of getting it right, compared to the major parties that always seem to get it wrong. :tosscoin:
Title: Re: The ELECTION Thread
Post by: shyer on August 04, 2010, 12:38:59 PM
Hi Call

This link was posted by r3830 earlier,

http://www.shootersandfishers.org.au/get-involved/default.aspx (http://www.shootersandfishers.org.au/get-involved/default.aspx)

I joined as few others did not because I fully agree with what I see are some ratbag right polices but as a damperner to the Greens loonie left.

I have been a member of the labour and liberal parties. For the Advance Australia party and unite Australia party I donated and did a lot of work for them. I voted at times for the democrats before they drifted into left field. I often vote for an independant who seems ethical, sensible and honest.

What I have learnt is independants and small parties are wasting time and money standing for the lower house EXCEPT where they have a candidate with a large popular local following.

The upper house is a different matter and why I dread a hung Senate with a commie like "rent a RED  Rhiannon" . Holding the balance of power. MAKE no mistake the commies are not under the beds any more they have made green sheets and blankets into shirts, suits and skirts.

They are dangerous fanatics and all the more willing to use any method no matter what the cost to stop communism worldwide retreating.

Do not forget who started WWll , without communist aggrement to Hlters bribe, Hilter could not have invaded europe, the korean war, the vietnam war Twice, Funded most of the post WWll African wars. Who precipitated the cuban missile crisis. Who started the current Afgan war. Who had 1/2 of europe locked in slavery for 40 years. They invaded twice Checkoslavicia and Poland three times and finland. ALL military invasions.

So now they dress as greens and pretend that democratic defence spending is wasted. While China spends every yuan can get to boost its defence spending. Who wants to invade China? Who can invade China? NO ONE The China communist party is frightened of a Tianamin square incident becoming uncontanied. Defence spending is for the communists NOT the Chinese People.
Title: Re: The ELECTION Thread
Post by: bnwt on August 04, 2010, 02:02:31 PM
as I have mentioned before I am utterly appalled at how amateurishly the labor campaign is being run and have done some research to find out why

Cranking Up The Machine


The Labor campaign headquarters has been set up in Pitt Street. It will be headed by federal Labor's national secretary, Karl Bitar, in his first outing as a national campaign director.

In 1992, during the divisive debate over the former Liberal leader John Hewson's Fightback! manifesto, he joined the Labor Party and became active in Young Labor, beginning a career-long friendship with Arbib, who was then assistant secretary in the NSW party.
In 1999, through his connection with Arbib, he became a state organiser and then assistant secretary when Arbib became secretary.
He now lives in Sydney with his wife three children.
He prefers not to divulge much more personal information than that. Karl Bitar likes to wield his power from the backroom.


http://www.hawkerbritton.com/hawker-britton-media/news/media-2010/338/cranking-up-the-machine.htm
Title: Re: The ELECTION Thread
Post by: bnwt on August 04, 2010, 03:13:27 PM
a photo of one of the "faceless men"

http://www.canberratimes.com.au/news/local/news/politics/federal-alp-denies-fix-to-replace-act-parliamentarians/1733061.aspx
Title: Re: The ELECTION Thread
Post by: mandurahmum on August 04, 2010, 04:35:33 PM
....I agree - at least this time they did not use a ridiculously large font to express their 'opinion'......

It also adds nothing to the debate

Interesting logic MM my use of a large font to highlight my opinion "offends" you thereforth I added nothing to the debate .

More honest summary, shoot the messanger because you do not like the message.

I do not really care who wins the election for the lower house ALP and LIbs are both grabbing center court. Never have I seen a Labour "promice" to hand power from eduction unions back to the local community. While Libs promice a NEW tax to fund paid parental leave.

WHAT I do care about is greens being handed the balance of power by LABOUR desparate at all costs to stay in Government. Most Green voters mean well the just do not understand they are voting for communists like Rhiannon for NSW.
 
From the post which has a link you found offensive on page 19 here .


" Before Rhiannon became an upper house MP, the now-disgraced Labor left-winger Ian Macdonald set the ball rolling. Rhiannon, he reminded Parliament, was a former member of the Socialist Party of Australia, a pro-Moscow breakaway from the disintegrating Communist Party of Australia.
"Since the disintegration of the Soviet Union, Ms Lee Rhiannon has led an absolute takeover of the NSW Greens. This attack is aimed at consigning the legitimate environmentalists to political limbo."

That post also highlights the communist economic policies of the greens.

On an another issue I do not care if rebel is a cupie doll . All I can see is they both come from the same communist slave labour camp factory. Repeating ad nausem from the commisars handbook relevance or truthful not being important.


I stated that the use of such large font was ridiculous - not offensive.  May I also suggest you use spellcheck

Title: Re: The ELECTION Thread
Post by: *Ubbie Max* on August 04, 2010, 05:17:22 PM
Go the Shooters & Fishers they have my vote in the Senate.
Title: Re: The ELECTION Thread
Post by: elantra on August 04, 2010, 05:36:58 PM
Our election survey results are in


the opinions of over 16,000 voters ......... http://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/election/our-election-survey-results-are-in/story-fn5zm695-1225900828979

That's Funny
Title: Re: The ELECTION Thread
Post by: mandurahmum on August 04, 2010, 05:43:48 PM
Go the Shooters & Fishers they have my vote in the Senate.

Where are their preferences going.  I know the WA candidates (husband and wife) have not decided yet.

I think over here the name 'shooters' may put people off - but if they were called the fisheries party - they would have more support.  It certainly puts me off
Title: Re: The ELECTION Thread
Post by: *Ubbie Max* on August 04, 2010, 05:49:01 PM
I dunno  Mum but, careful selection on the other ballot paper can negate those preferences once we find out if, voters prefer another party.

R numbers will be wiser on this matter than me.

There is talk that Archery Australia will also affiliate with the Shooters & Fishers, which is good as I have an interest in archery as well as fishing.
Title: Re: The ELECTION Thread
Post by: *smee* on August 04, 2010, 05:52:08 PM
I think their preferences are going to the drinkers, smokers and shaggers party
Title: Re: The ELECTION Thread
Post by: *Ubbie Max* on August 04, 2010, 05:59:32 PM
Ripper Smee, a mighty fine party.
Title: Re: The ELECTION Thread
Post by: mandurahmum on August 04, 2010, 06:08:47 PM
I think their preferences are going to the drinkers, smokers and shaggers party

A party party - sounds good
Title: Re: The ELECTION Thread
Post by: bnwt on August 04, 2010, 06:53:17 PM
Abbott’s Job Approval (52%, up 6%) surges ahead of Gillard (46%, unchanged)


http://www.roymorgan.com/news/polls/2010/4547/
Title: Re: The ELECTION Thread
Post by: *r3830* on August 05, 2010, 10:45:59 AM
The following message came to my attention on another website. Thought it might be of interest here.


Please tell your friends and Family that the Greens and labors plan to ban recreational fishing. That mean you wont be able to drop a line in the water with your kids. You wont be abel to head out for a day on the water and catch a feed. Dont vote Greens. They're not green there socialists with crazy polocies. Check out their web site


Greens call for fishing bans


http://www.ntnews.com.au/article/2010/08/05/169861_ntnews.html (http://www.ntnews.com.au/article/2010/08/05/169861_ntnews.html)
Title: Re: The ELECTION Thread
Post by: *r3830* on August 05, 2010, 10:51:51 AM
And - a follow up...

Greens vow to turn Australia's territorial waters into marine park


http://www.heraldsun.com.au/news/special-reports/greens-vow-to-turn-australias-territorial-waters-into-marine-park/story-fn5ko0pw-1225899498096 (http://www.heraldsun.com.au/news/special-reports/greens-vow-to-turn-australias-territorial-waters-into-marine-park/story-fn5ko0pw-1225899498096)
Title: Re: The ELECTION Thread
Post by: *Ubbie Max* on August 05, 2010, 11:00:39 AM
I just read both those news reports Numbers & it's a real worry.

Recreational fishos do not harm the environment in any way. Many of us practice catch & return as a matter of course.
Title: Re: The ELECTION Thread
Post by: *r3830* on August 05, 2010, 11:07:28 AM
Monty Python LIVES!!!! If it weren't serious.... It'd be bluddy funny! Lookout.... I'm gonna shoot ya with my soap gun!

Toy guns will have to be licensed in Queensland under new firearms laws



http://www.heraldsun.com.au/lifestyle/the-other-side/toy-guns-will-have-to-be-licensed-in-queensland-under-new-firearms-laws/story-e6frfhk6-1225900910503 (http://www.heraldsun.com.au/lifestyle/the-other-side/toy-guns-will-have-to-be-licensed-in-queensland-under-new-firearms-laws/story-e6frfhk6-1225900910503)



Ubbie - you're absolutely right by the way. The majority of fishos are serious conservationists.... unlike these other 'by word' idiots!
Title: Re: The ELECTION Thread
Post by: HellWest'nCrooked on August 05, 2010, 11:25:53 AM

 I was just about to post " the world has/is going crazy after reading  the post about the greens and rec fishing Loco, then you come up with the toy gun blurp........

aaawwwwwww for Gawwwwwwwwwds sake, is it time to run for the Hills??

Do these people stop and think...they live in this world and walk around in cotton clothes and eat fish every week but no-one else is allowed to????  They want to STOP everything, wish  their lips would stop moving from rambling rubbish...lol
Title: Re: The ELECTION Thread
Post by: bnwt on August 05, 2010, 11:40:43 AM
Julia Gillard apologises to Queenslanders for the way former prime minister Kevin Rudd was dumped

http://www.couriermail.com.au/news/national/julia-gillard-apologises-to-queenslanders-for-the-way-former-prime-minister-kevin-rudd-was-dumped/story-fn5z3z83-1225901328607

the real impact of this story is in the comments ....... I counted 1 pro "real julia" out of a total of 250 comments
Title: Re: The ELECTION Thread
Post by: Poddy on August 05, 2010, 11:58:14 AM
I am thinking of starting a party for the next election :)

Do you think "Cut the Crap" is catchy enough?

I am working on what platform to adopt.
The following may be some of them

1.   Ban automated phone redirection systems and restore humans for telephone enquiries, thus creating jobs.
2.   Restore some of the powers to teachers that they had in the past allowing teachers to do their work without being hindered by stupid rules.
3.   Royal Commissions participants to be paid the most basic wage while they are involved in an enquiry, that should get their arses into gear to finish in a timely fashion.


Just a few ideas, if you would like to contribute and have something that you think is unjust or a hindrance to the health, wealth and wellbeing to our existence please feel free to make suggestions :)
Title: Re: The ELECTION Thread
Post by: HellWest'nCrooked on August 05, 2010, 12:04:15 PM

Poddy I have to go out again.......so will think of all the crap that has to be cut.....
trouble is my memory bank is not big enough to hold it all...may have to take a note book!
Title: Re: The ELECTION Thread
Post by: *r3830* on August 05, 2010, 12:19:01 PM
GEEEEEZ Poddy.... Register that party and I will register to vote in ten different names and you will get ALL my votes!


Can we also have the Summary Offences Act back? And give the local copper the ability to boot a kid up the bum and send them to school... not to mention reintroduction of the term "respect".

Can we have the rights of parents to be parents reinstated.... and also have some level of parental accountability attached?

Still thinking.... but a catchphrase of "A Return to Commonsense" would surely fit in there somewhere!
Title: Re: The ELECTION Thread
Post by: bnwt on August 05, 2010, 12:28:59 PM
the astounding amount of reader comments about "new julia's" alleged apology has even surprised the newspaper the story is running in

Readers vent anger at Julia Gillard's partial apology for knifing Kevin Rudd

http://www.couriermail.com.au/news/national/readers-vent-anger-at-julia-gillards-partial-apology-for-knifing-kevin-rudd/story-fn5z3z83-1225901521154

comments are now at 348
Title: Re: The ELECTION Thread
Post by: Poddy on August 05, 2010, 12:38:43 PM
Dare I coin the phrase Julia Guillotine

Oh why not ,hehehehe it night be catchy :)

Can You imagine Julia Guillotine as our Prime Monster for the next 4 years????
Title: Re: The ELECTION Thread
Post by: Poddy on August 05, 2010, 01:04:28 PM
OMG I just googled 'Julia Guillotine' and found that I had been sniped days ago :(

Oh well

Title: Re: The ELECTION Thread
Post by: bnwt on August 05, 2010, 02:10:59 PM
Julia Gillard needs to wake up and understand the wrath of Queensland awaits her


http://www.couriermail.com.au/news/national/julia-gillard-needs-to-wake-up-and-understand-the-wrath-of-queensland-awaits-her/story-fn5z3z83-1225901535216
Title: Re: The ELECTION Thread
Post by: Liisa-Sx on August 05, 2010, 02:42:45 PM
I am thinking of starting a party for the next election :)

Do you think "Cut the Crap" is catchy enough?

I am working on what platform to adopt.
The following may be some of them

1.   Ban automated phone redirection systems and restore humans for telephone enquiries, thus creating jobs.
2.   Restore some of the powers to teachers that they had in the past allowing teachers to do their work without being hindered by stupid rules.
3.   Royal Commissions participants to be paid the most basic wage while they are involved in an enquiry, that should get their arses into gear to finish in a timely fashion.


Just a few ideas, if you would like to contribute and have something that you think is unjust or a hindrance to the health, wealth and wellbeing to our existence please feel free to make suggestions :)



4. Subcontracted builders unable to charge $250,000 to build a large CARPORT for a country school... just because it is government money, and independant school commitees to review and accept tenders. ( I know a government subcontractor that brags he will be buying a $100,000 boat at the end of the year courtesy of the government)
Title: Re: The ELECTION Thread
Post by: *Brum6y* on August 05, 2010, 02:59:42 PM
5. Call centres located in a different time zone and a different hemisphere - where language, colloquialism and lack of local knowledge make it just as effective to go out into the street and ask the first person you come across the same questions.
Title: Re: The ELECTION Thread
Post by: bnwt on August 05, 2010, 03:15:46 PM
I'll steer clear of Kevin Rudd, says Julia Gillard


http://www.adelaidenow.com.au/news/breaking-news/ill-steer-clear-of-kevin-rudd-says-julia-gillard/story-e6frea73-1225900791840
Title: Re: The ELECTION Thread
Post by: *Ubbie Max* on August 05, 2010, 03:33:11 PM
I'm with Numbers Poddy. Cut out the GST on Pepsi Max & deep fried Pluto Pups & your party has my vote.
Title: Re: The ELECTION Thread
Post by: Liisa-Sx on August 05, 2010, 03:40:32 PM
6. Bring back proper referrendums on issues rather than have some 'token' group polled on behalf of the entire population, or worse being told this is what we WILL do.
Title: Re: The ELECTION Thread
Post by: bnwt on August 05, 2010, 03:53:09 PM
(http://i289.photobucket.com/albums/ll208/bouddiebay/6a00e0097e4e688833013485ff23c4970c-800wi.jpg)
Title: Re: The ELECTION Thread
Post by: Poddy on August 05, 2010, 04:14:09 PM
7. Defaulting on election promises to be punishable by law, the penalty being a 20 year non parole jail term.

THAT should cut the Crap
Title: Re: The ELECTION Thread
Post by: HellWest'nCrooked on August 05, 2010, 04:35:46 PM
Poddy.......do you think you should start a "Cut the Crap" thread??

Loco.....you have beaten me to it........was going to ask Poddy if I could be Minister for Commonsense!

Bring back Public Works...and they must work for standard wages  eg liisa 's post

Abolish  the states and let local councils/govt deal with local issues

Put the nurses back into the hospitals for their training so they can learn to be nurses .

Bring back driveway attendants at the service stations...lol

I have many more ideas but won't bombard you with them all at once!!!
Title: Re: The ELECTION Thread
Post by: *smee* on August 05, 2010, 04:38:58 PM
was going to ask Poddy if I could be Minister for Commonsense!

Ummmmmmm Westie , what part of "cut the crap" didnt you understand

maybe you could be minister for youth affairs !
Title: Re: The ELECTION Thread
Post by: bnwt on August 05, 2010, 04:56:03 PM
I, Kevin, will save you with my mighty power


I am Not Derailing Labor's (clearly hopelessly, pathetically, ineffective) campaign against Tony Abbott.

http://www.smh.com.au/federal-election/i-kevin-will-save-you-with-my-mighty-power-20100805-11jwc.html#poll
Title: Re: The ELECTION Thread
Post by: HellWest'nCrooked on August 05, 2010, 05:00:31 PM
was going to ask Poddy if I could be Minister for Commonsense!

Ummmmmmm Westie , what part of "cut the crap" didnt you understand

maybe you could be minister for youth affairs !



  Blerp
Title: Re: The ELECTION Thread
Post by: bnwt on August 05, 2010, 07:18:32 PM
Coalition vows to block 'flawed' internet filter


http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2010/08/05/2974827.htm
Title: Re: The ELECTION Thread
Post by: elantra on August 05, 2010, 08:53:27 PM
If the Labor Party is borrowing $100,000,000 per day.
Who is lending it to the Labor Party?
Title: Re: The ELECTION Thread
Post by: Poddy on August 05, 2010, 09:00:28 PM
Well you can rule out the United States :)

http://www.usdebtclock.org/
Title: Re: The ELECTION Thread
Post by: bnwt on August 05, 2010, 09:23:03 PM
elantra


china is lending the money
Title: Re: The ELECTION Thread
Post by: mandurahmum on August 05, 2010, 10:40:56 PM
And - a follow up...

Greens vow to turn Australia's territorial waters into marine park


http://www.heraldsun.com.au/news/special-reports/greens-vow-to-turn-australias-territorial-waters-into-marine-park/story-fn5ko0pw-1225899498096 (http://www.heraldsun.com.au/news/special-reports/greens-vow-to-turn-australias-territorial-waters-into-marine-park/story-fn5ko0pw-1225899498096)

I love fishing - but I also like this idea depending of course where the marine reserves will be.  I would love to see a lot of the Northern Coast protected and of course Margaret River.
Title: Re: The ELECTION Thread
Post by: *r3830* on August 05, 2010, 11:40:05 PM
"There's more nous about climate change in the average primary school in this country than there is in the Cabinet," he said. Bob Brown

"There's more nous in a pre-school than there is in a national greens convention". I said. r3830  ;D

But.... our pollies reckon they've got it tough..... They take their jobs seriously in Sri Lanka!

Protests after MP ties worker to tree

http://www.heraldsun.com.au/news/breaking-news/protests-after-mp-ties-worker-to-tree/story-e6frf7jx-1225901817956 (http://www.heraldsun.com.au/news/breaking-news/protests-after-mp-ties-worker-to-tree/story-e6frf7jx-1225901817956)
Title: Re: The ELECTION Thread
Post by: *r3830* on August 05, 2010, 11:48:05 PM
Labor's great climate change choke

The ETS looked an easy 'sell' to the public but the government dropped the ball

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/national-affairs/labors-great-climate-change-choke/story-fn59niix-1225898997863 (http://www.theaustralian.com.au/national-affairs/labors-great-climate-change-choke/story-fn59niix-1225898997863)
Title: Re: The ELECTION Thread
Post by: mandurahmum on August 06, 2010, 12:00:50 AM
his is by far my favourite ad so far - fair go for billionaires

http://www.fairgoforbillionaires.com.au/home.asp (http://www.fairgoforbillionaires.com.au/home.asp)
Title: Re: The ELECTION Thread
Post by: *smee* on August 06, 2010, 12:04:20 AM
yep not a bad ad MM .... but did you listen to the credits at the end ... guess who did the ad
Title: Re: The ELECTION Thread
Post by: *smee* on August 06, 2010, 12:06:33 AM
I like this song

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=49zF8m7ys24
Title: Re: The ELECTION Thread
Post by: *Brum6y* on August 06, 2010, 12:09:15 AM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KdOCWUgwiWs
Title: Re: The ELECTION Thread
Post by: mandurahmum on August 06, 2010, 12:12:34 AM
Yes I know - so its seems that the cfmeu is not opposed to the mining tax.  Interesting that a union that represents the miners is fox the mining tax.   mmmmm

But anyway have a look at their website - it is hilarious.  The about us page had me in stitches.  But read the other parts too - pure genius.

And the chasers wer eback tonight - woo hoo - no one does elections like them
Title: Re: The ELECTION Thread
Post by: *r3830* on August 06, 2010, 12:18:07 AM
I like this one!

Yes We Canberra! | The Chaser's Angry Kevin Ad


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hApCBfB-nng&feature=related (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hApCBfB-nng&feature=related)
Title: Re: The ELECTION Thread
Post by: *Brum6y* on August 06, 2010, 12:43:01 AM
I'm glad I finished watching that before I took a swig of coffee!!
Title: Re: The ELECTION Thread
Post by: *smee* on August 06, 2010, 05:09:26 AM
http://www.abc.net.au/7.30/content/2010/s2974888.htm
Title: Re: The ELECTION Thread
Post by: bnwt on August 06, 2010, 07:43:07 AM
Kevin Rudd will survive


http://media.smh.com.au/kevin-rudd-will-survive-1753521.html?from=newsbox
Title: Re: The ELECTION Thread
Post by: bnwt on August 06, 2010, 01:08:24 PM
Remand for man accused of threatening to kill Belinda Neal

http://express-advocate-gosford.whereilive.com.au/news/story/remand-for-man-accused-of-threatening-to-kill-belinda-neal/
Title: Re: The ELECTION Thread
Post by: *Ubbie Max* on August 06, 2010, 01:31:44 PM
re #571. What an idiot. if he had just gone ahead & squeezed the trigger he may not have ever ended up in court.
So many people detest Belinda Neil there would have been a gazzilion suspects.
Title: Re: The ELECTION Thread
Post by: bnwt on August 06, 2010, 03:04:12 PM
Ghosts of leaders past


With the Labor campaign already complicated by two leaders, the last thing they will want is a third.

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/national-affairs/capital-circle/ghosts-of-leaders-past/story-fn59nqgy-1225902064487
Title: Re: The ELECTION Thread
Post by: elantra on August 06, 2010, 06:31:03 PM
This mining tax, or GREAT BIG NEW TAX as Mr Abbott calls it.
Is really starting to bite.
Rio Tinto's net earnings only soared 260% that's right only 260%!!!!!
That's only $US5.77 billion, FOR THE FIRST HALF.
 that's not turnover that's just net earnings.
It's no wonder Mr Abbott dose not want them taxed on profits
BHP shares went up a further 29cents today.
Even Oz Minerals Limited went up again.

Lets hope they do the right thing & take most of that money off shore,
along with all the Minerals they have dug out of our ground.
So they can leave us a GREAT BIG NEW HOLE IN THE GROUND, & nothing else.
That's what we want isn't it?

http://www.optuszoo.com.au/news/177311/iron-ore-helps-rio-to-6-3bn-result.html
Title: Re: The ELECTION Thread
Post by: bnwt on August 06, 2010, 06:35:02 PM
Pyne dents Labor's hopes for victory in Sturt


According to the poll, Labor's primary vote has tanked in the well-established eastern suburbs electorate dropping six points from 41 per cent in the 2007 "Ruddslide" election to be just 35 per cent today

http://www.adelaidenow.com.au/news/in-depth/pyne-dents-labors-hopes-for-victory-in-sturt/story-fn5rhbmf-1225901831212
Title: Re: The ELECTION Thread
Post by: bnwt on August 06, 2010, 06:44:44 PM
Galaxy marginal seats poll

A Galaxy poll conducted for the Nine Network has delivered a blow to Labor, suggesting it could lose key marginal seats in Queensland and New South Wales.

Conducted in the seats of Bonner and Bowman in Queensland and Macarthur and Eden-Monaro in New South Wales over the past two days, the poll puts Labor's primary vote at 39 per cent compared to the Coalition's 44 per cent.

On a two-party preferred basis, that gives the Coalition a 51 per cent to 49 per cent lead, Nine's political correspondent, Laurie Oakes, reported tonight. Oakes says that swing would cost Labor up to 12 seats in Queensland and NSW. The Coalition needs to seize 17 seats nationwide to take power.

Although respondents rated Julia Gillard as a more impressive leader than Tony Abbott during the election campaign, 35 per cent of voters in the Queensland marginals said they would have been more likely to vote Labor under Kevin Rudd. Only 11 per cent said they would have been less likely to vote Labor with Mr Rudd as leader.
Title: Re: The ELECTION Thread
Post by: elantra on August 06, 2010, 10:18:13 PM
Dear Mr Abbott.

 You can fool some of the people all of the time,
 and all of the people some of the time,
 but you can not fool all of the people all of the time.  (Abraham Lincoln)

When a person time & time again, shows you who they are,  you should believe them!
On the 22nd of August 2010 we will again see the Tony Abbott for what he is.  (Elantra)
Title: Re: The ELECTION Thread
Post by: mandurahmum on August 06, 2010, 10:38:04 PM
This mining tax, or GREAT BIG NEW TAX as Mr Abbott calls it.
Is really starting to bite.
Rio Tinto's net earnings only soared 260% that's right only 260%!!!!!
That's only $US5.77 billion, FOR THE FIRST HALF.
 that's not turnover that's just net earnings.
It's no wonder Mr Abbott dose not want them taxed on profits
BHP shares went up a further 29cents today.
Even Oz Minerals Limited went up again.

Lets hope they do the right thing & take most of that money off shore,
along with all the Minerals they have dug out of our ground.
So they can leave us a GREAT BIG NEW HOLE IN THE GROUND, & nothing else.
That's what we want isn't it?

http://www.optuszoo.com.au/news/177311/iron-ore-helps-rio-to-6-3bn-result.html

I know - I feel so sorry for them.  Billionaires need a fair go too

http://fairgoforbillionaires.com.au/fairgo/ (http://fairgoforbillionaires.com.au/fairgo/)

the new ad is just as funny as the others
Title: Re: The ELECTION Thread
Post by: *smee* on August 07, 2010, 01:13:02 AM
(http://pics.kuvaton.com/kuvei/politics_wall_art.jpg)
Title: Re: The ELECTION Thread
Post by: bnwt on August 07, 2010, 08:26:12 AM
Labor in Trouble


http://video.au.msn.com/watch/video/labor-in-trouble-on-day-21/xjgrk5t
Title: Re: The ELECTION Thread
Post by: bnwt on August 07, 2010, 10:32:58 AM
Best "Real" Julia Photo So Far

(http://i289.photobucket.com/albums/ll208/bouddiebay/Screenshot2010-08-07at102952AM.png)


http://www.smh.com.au/federal-election/under-pressure-on-edge-20100806-11olu.html
Title: Re: The ELECTION Thread
Post by: bnwt on August 07, 2010, 01:15:38 PM
Just 2 Months Ago

http://media.smh.com.au/national/selections/gillard-to-push-kev-overboard-1579425.html&exc_from=strap


just goes to show there's no point listening to journalists .... especially leftie fan boys like phil coorey & michelle grattan
Title: Re: The ELECTION Thread
Post by: shyer on August 07, 2010, 01:26:22 PM
speaking of leftie fan boys where is our own leftie fan boy cupie doll?

Her wings fallen off already? consinged to Mondays night rubbish bin???
Title: Re: The ELECTION Thread
Post by: bnwt on August 07, 2010, 02:35:07 PM
Can't You Just Feel the Love

(http://i289.photobucket.com/albums/ll208/bouddiebay/415591-kevin-rudd.jpg)
Title: Re: The ELECTION Thread
Post by: elantra on August 07, 2010, 02:37:03 PM
Just 2 Months Ago

http://media.smh.com.au/national/selections/gillard-to-push-kev-overboard-1579425.html&exc_from=strap


just goes to show there's no point listening to journalists .... especially leftie fan boys like phil coorey & michelle grattan

Hell no, Piers Ackerman is the only one to listen to!!
Title: Re: The ELECTION Thread
Post by: *smee* on August 07, 2010, 02:40:44 PM
I think Piers Orff is better still 
Title: Re: The ELECTION Thread
Post by: bnwt on August 07, 2010, 02:52:38 PM
elantra

watch the video and then tell me that phil & michelle have any credibility

also please note I said "just goes to show there's no point listening to journalists"
Title: Re: The ELECTION Thread
Post by: bnwt on August 07, 2010, 03:59:49 PM
Leaky Lemon


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6v7YwihqsdU
Title: Re: The ELECTION Thread
Post by: *r3830* on August 07, 2010, 04:31:58 PM
Voters not listening to the real Julia as Labor trails the Coalition in latest poll

http://www.news.com.au/features/federal-election/voters-not-listening-to-the-real-julia-as-labor-trails-the-coalition-in-latest-poll/story-e6frfllr-1225902338338 (http://www.news.com.au/features/federal-election/voters-not-listening-to-the-real-julia-as-labor-trails-the-coalition-in-latest-poll/story-e6frfllr-1225902338338)

Moving forward? Not this week


http://www.smh.com.au/federal-election/moving-forward-not-this-week-20100806-11oie.html?autostart=1 (http://www.smh.com.au/federal-election/moving-forward-not-this-week-20100806-11oie.html?autostart=1)
Title: Re: The ELECTION Thread
Post by: *r3830* on August 07, 2010, 04:35:33 PM
Opposition Leader Tony Abbott offers $10 million to fight fires

http://www.news.com.au/features/federal-election/opposition-leader-tony-abbott-offers-10-million-to-fight-fires/story-e6frfllr-1225902395265 (http://www.news.com.au/features/federal-election/opposition-leader-tony-abbott-offers-10-million-to-fight-fires/story-e6frfllr-1225902395265)
Title: Re: The ELECTION Thread
Post by: mandurahmum on August 07, 2010, 05:03:57 PM
speaking of leftie fan boys where is our own leftie fan boy cupie doll?

Her wings fallen off already? consinged to Mondays night rubbish bin???

Cant you give it a rest - namecalling is so childish

Title: Re: The ELECTION Thread
Post by: bnwt on August 07, 2010, 05:26:48 PM
I can not believe I am about to write this

Go Mark Latham Go!!

I just saw footage of him bailing up the "real" julia wanting to know why the labor party have asked that channel 9 drop him from the up coming 60 Minutes program

one thinks one will be seeing the gutter tactics of the labor campaign exposed for all to see

Title: Re: The ELECTION Thread
Post by: *Brum6y* on August 07, 2010, 05:29:02 PM
I must agree with MM. Let it go.

For whatever reason, the member in question has obviously decided to withdraw from discussion and while we may have our own thoughts on that, I would suggest it is not appropriate to discuss such things - especially if they are not participating.

I will say this, though (from what little I can glean) - I have no concerns about any decisions made by Admin being anything other than clear, objective and impartial - no matter how difficult they may be nor how passionately any member may express themselves.



Let's get back on topic ....

Even with obviously opposing views, this thread can still remain courteous ... well, as much as politics allows.
Title: Re: The ELECTION Thread
Post by: *r3830* on August 07, 2010, 06:01:03 PM
I just saw footage of him bailing up the "real" julia wanting to know why the labor party have asked that channel 9 drop him from the up coming 60 Minutes program

Now that's rough. While I haven't a lot of time for Mr Latham either - by what right do the ALP attempt to have him quietened? At least its a change from internet censorship I spose!
Title: Re: The ELECTION Thread
Post by: bnwt on August 07, 2010, 06:05:15 PM
Mark Latham confronts Julia Gillard over complaint about his role as a TV reporter


Following Mr Rudd's toppling in June, Mr Latham also predicted Ms Gillard would eventually be “the next one for the knife” because key ALP figures “hated her”.

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/national-affairs/guest-reporter-mark-latham-keeps-his-distance-as-he-shadows-julia-gillard/story-fn59niix-1225902436020
Title: Re: The ELECTION Thread
Post by: bnwt on August 07, 2010, 06:09:58 PM
Rudd sidesteps media after Gillard talks

http://au.news.yahoo.com/election/a/-/article/7725498/rudd-sidesteps-media-after-gillard-talks/


he is GUTLESS
Title: Re: The ELECTION Thread
Post by: Poddy on August 07, 2010, 06:42:36 PM
Hmmm........

Gutless or cunning ;)

Sometimes nonaction speak louder than actions
Title: Re: The ELECTION Thread
Post by: *r3830* on August 07, 2010, 07:18:35 PM
ALP website edits out Julia's socialist past


http://www.theaustralian.com.au/national-affairs/alp-website-edits-out-julias-socialist-past/story-fn59niix-1225901317945 (http://www.theaustralian.com.au/national-affairs/alp-website-edits-out-julias-socialist-past/story-fn59niix-1225901317945)
Title: Re: The ELECTION Thread
Post by: *r3830* on August 07, 2010, 07:44:11 PM
Singo to launch anti-Labor health ad

"These ads are going to cause a shitstorm after they hit on the weekend," a source close to the campaign told The Australian.


http://www.theaustralian.com.au/business/media/provider-runs-cancer-shock-ad/story-e6frg996-1225902153762 (http://www.theaustralian.com.au/business/media/provider-runs-cancer-shock-ad/story-e6frg996-1225902153762)
Title: Re: The ELECTION Thread
Post by: bnwt on August 07, 2010, 09:30:05 PM
I have to say the NSW Nurses Union anti Abbott TV ads are simply piss weak

http://www2.nswnurses.asn.au/gallery.html?id=federalelectionfifteensecondad.flv&type=video


http://www2.nswnurses.asn.au/gallery.html?id=fedelectionthirtysecondad.flv&type=video
Title: Re: The ELECTION Thread
Post by: bnwt on August 07, 2010, 09:52:48 PM
Kevin Rudd And Julia Gillard's Secret Backroom Meeting


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D_VvrfyUdxM
Title: Re: The ELECTION Thread
Post by: bnwt on August 07, 2010, 10:17:45 PM
Kevin Rudd speech

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZqU_XtN_kTg


most interesting is what he says at 7:30 and freakishly it cuts to a shot of Mark Arbib
Title: Re: The ELECTION Thread
Post by: bnwt on August 08, 2010, 07:47:29 AM
Latham locks horns with Gillard


http://player.video.news.com.au/couriermail/#1561164918
Title: Re: The ELECTION Thread
Post by: bnwt on August 08, 2010, 08:01:19 AM
Antony Green's House of Reps Calculator

http://www.abc.net.au/elections/federal/2010/calculator/?swing=state&national=0&nsw=-3.2&vic=-0.3&qld=-4.4&wa=-4.7&sa=-0.4&tas=0&act=-3.2&nt=0&retiringfactor=1

the ABC's House of Reps Calculator is predicting 76 seats for the Coalition and 71 for Labor
Title: Re: The ELECTION Thread
Post by: bnwt on August 08, 2010, 09:22:35 AM
it is hilarious to watch that stupid SBS weekend news reader - who is of late wearing her clothes inside out for some bizarre reason - gush about the surge in support for, at that time, the fake julia gillard

Gillard on top in polls

http://player.sbs.com.au/naca#/naca/wna/Latest/playlist/Gillard-on-top-in-polls/"
Title: Re: The ELECTION Thread
Post by: *smee* on August 08, 2010, 09:40:33 AM
who is of late wearing her clothes inside out for some bizarre reason

talking about bizarre ways of wearing clothes ...inside out would have to be better than the latest youth fashion sense wouldnt it ...ie ... weraing your trousers around the top of your thighs just under the lower crease of your butt cheeks where they meet the top of your legs (instead of on the hips or waist) so that the entire population of the world get to see every square inch of your underpants !!...................

WTF is all that about ??????? apart from being unsightly at best its got to be uncomfortable doesnt it ?????

so just to stay on topic , I think one of the political parties should come up with a policy that if they get elected they will bring in a law that sees any one who wears their pants like this will be sentenced to  a public flogging or something similar
Title: Re: The ELECTION Thread
Post by: Roo on August 08, 2010, 10:14:45 AM
Smee...

I think it's a fashion trend that seems to go away as soon as they leave home.

As long as their Mums do their washing it's ok....but once they have to do their own....they soon learn that skid marks aren't going to attract the ladies..lol

And...as a Mum....I always have the urge to go up behind them and give them a wedgie!   ;D
Title: Re: The ELECTION Thread
Post by: shyer on August 08, 2010, 12:59:38 PM
While this is 2 years old consider if you vote for the Greens WHO are you REALLY voting for?

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/news/lets-put-the-greens-in-charge-really/story-e6frg79o-1111117718657 (http://www.theaustralian.com.au/news/lets-put-the-greens-in-charge-really/story-e6frg79o-1111117718657)
Title: Re: The ELECTION Thread
Post by: *Brum6y* on August 08, 2010, 02:01:23 PM
it is hilarious to watch that stupid SBS weekend news reader - who is of late wearing her clothes inside out for some bizarre reason - gush about the surge in support for, at that time, the fake julia gillard

Gillard on top in polls

http://player.sbs.com.au/naca#/naca/wna/Latest/playlist/Gillard-on-top-in-polls/"

The timestamp on the thumbnail says SAT 26TH JUN, 6:30PM ... is this clip that old?
Title: Re: The ELECTION Thread
Post by: bnwt on August 08, 2010, 02:58:17 PM
Labor Campaign Turns Into A Circus

http://www2.skynews.com.au/topstories/article.aspx?id=496231&articleID=
Title: Re: The ELECTION Thread
Post by: bnwt on August 08, 2010, 02:59:57 PM
it is hilarious to watch that stupid SBS weekend news reader - who is of late wearing her clothes inside out for some bizarre reason - gush about the surge in support for, at that time, the fake julia gillard

Gillard on top in polls

http://player.sbs.com.au/naca#/naca/wna/Latest/playlist/Gillard-on-top-in-polls/"

The timestamp on the thumbnail says SAT 26TH JUN, 6:30PM ... is this clip that old?

just goes to show how she went from hero to zero in 6 short weeks
Title: Re: The ELECTION Thread
Post by: bnwt on August 08, 2010, 04:34:51 PM
Labor’s panic — a disease acquired in NSW


http://www.crikey.com.au/2010/08/06/labors-panic-a-disease-acquired-in-nsw/
Title: Re: The ELECTION Thread
Post by: *Brum6y* on August 08, 2010, 05:11:22 PM
I am still intrigued with the declaration of the concept that Tony Abbott could attain the PM role 'by default'. Kevin Rudd being one who has voiced this concept.

I realise this is an over-simplification, but, is Labor that much on the back foot, that the Liberals could win by doing nothing more than just 'turning up'?
Title: Re: The ELECTION Thread
Post by: mandurahmum on August 08, 2010, 05:36:14 PM
who is of late wearing her clothes inside out for some bizarre reason

talking about bizarre ways of wearing clothes ...inside out would have to be better than the latest youth fashion sense wouldnt it ...ie ... weraing your trousers around the top of your thighs just under the lower crease of your butt cheeks where they meet the top of your legs (instead of on the hips or waist) so that the entire population of the world get to see every square inch of your underpants !!...................

WTF is all that about ??????? apart from being unsightly at best its got to be uncomfortable doesnt it ?????

so just to stay on topic , I think one of the political parties should come up with a policy that if they get elected they will bring in a law that sees any one who wears their pants like this will be sentenced to  a public flogging or something similar

I have found the best way of showing my son how stupid it looks - is too wear my pants down that low - in front of his friends.
Title: Re: The ELECTION Thread
Post by: bnwt on August 08, 2010, 05:59:39 PM
Keep The Bastards Honest

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7hnU98kc1Mw
Title: Re: The ELECTION Thread
Post by: HellWest'nCrooked on August 08, 2010, 06:08:34 PM


I have found the best way of showing my son how stupid it looks - is too wear my pants down that low - in front of his friends.


 Oh Mum that is just hilarious.. :roflmao: :roflmao: :roflmao:


 One of my brothers used to wear his jeans that tight that my father ended up telling him he would turn sterile if he didn't stop wearing them like that!!
Title: Re: The ELECTION Thread
Post by: elantra on August 08, 2010, 08:19:58 PM
I thought Tony Abbott after his speech today was going to finish with,,, BAZINGA gotcha!!!
Title: Re: The ELECTION Thread
Post by: mandurahmum on August 08, 2010, 08:33:45 PM
They should have been playing - white noise - cause thats what I heard

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QskZwT1psEc (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QskZwT1psEc)
Title: Re: The ELECTION Thread
Post by: *smee* on August 08, 2010, 11:42:43 PM
American Politics Defined

SOCIALISM: You have two cows. The state takes one and gives it to someone else.
COMMUNISM: You have two cows. The State takes both of them and gives you the milk.
FASCISM: You have two cows. The State takes both of them and sells you the milk.
MILITARY DICTATORSHIP: You have two cows. The State takes both of them and shoots you.
BUREAUCRACY: You have two cows. The state takes both of them, accidentally kills one and spills the milk in the sewer.
CAPITALISM: You have two cows. You sell one and buy a bull.
PURE DEMOCRACY: You have two cows. Your neighbors decide who gets the milk.

REPRESENTATIVE DEMOCRACY: You have two cows. Your neighbors pick someone to decide who gets the milk.

AMERICAN DEMOCRACY: The government promises to give you two cows if you vote for it. After the election, the president is impeached for speculating in cow futures. The press dubs the affair "Cowgate".

ANARCHY: You have two cows. Either you sell the milk at a fair price or your neighbors kill you and take the cows.
Title: Re: The ELECTION Thread
Post by: *smee* on August 09, 2010, 12:10:22 AM
(http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_-uKbwPrBhss/SqFVtPGT_-I/AAAAAAAAALQ/2zgQe-sTo8A/s400/BabiesPayStimulus-thumb-510x364.png)
Title: Re: The ELECTION Thread
Post by: DuffyDuck on August 09, 2010, 01:50:21 AM
(http://i758.photobucket.com/albums/xx222/Fl0rence09/2010-453P--tie-the-knot-.gif)
Title: Re: The ELECTION Thread
Post by: DuffyDuck on August 09, 2010, 01:51:53 AM
(http://i758.photobucket.com/albums/xx222/Fl0rence09/2010-475--Where-Abbott-and-Gillard-stand-on-global-warming-.gif)
Title: Re: The ELECTION Thread
Post by: Poddy on August 09, 2010, 01:55:28 AM
Well well well,
Look who has graced our humble thread.

Julia I think you are running around in ever decreasing circles and are about to disappear into one of your own orifices.

That what happens when you can not distinguish if you are Arthur or Martha.

Did you really think that you could snatch victory in the way that you did without repercussions.

Reven Crudd is out to get his own back  and rightly so
Title: Re: The ELECTION Thread
Post by: DuffyDuck on August 09, 2010, 02:03:10 AM
(http://i758.photobucket.com/albums/xx222/Fl0rence09/BroelmanJune25.jpg)
Title: Re: The ELECTION Thread
Post by: Poddy on August 09, 2010, 02:07:21 AM
Can anyone imagine anything worse than Julia in labour???

OMG what a visual !!!!!!
Title: Re: The ELECTION Thread
Post by: DuffyDuck on August 09, 2010, 02:10:14 AM
(http://i758.photobucket.com/albums/xx222/Fl0rence09/2010-371--Kevin-07--Julia-007-25th-June-.gif)
Title: Re: The ELECTION Thread
Post by: Liisa-Sx on August 09, 2010, 02:21:12 AM
(http://blogs.news.com.au/images/uploads/leahy_10-07-16Rii.jpg)
Title: Re: The ELECTION Thread
Post by: shyer on August 09, 2010, 09:41:03 AM
(http://blogs.news.com.au/images/uploads/leahy_10-07-16Rii.jpg)

That needs two more drawings hawke standing over haydens knifed back and A shadow standing over gillards knifed back with the caption

REAP WHAT YOU SOW.
Title: Re: The ELECTION Thread
Post by: HellWest'nCrooked on August 09, 2010, 10:01:56 AM


 ANARCHY...............should be more of it!!!!!!!!
Title: Re: The ELECTION Thread
Post by: elantra on August 09, 2010, 12:37:59 PM
......
Title: Re: The ELECTION Thread
Post by: *Brum6y* on August 09, 2010, 12:56:01 PM


 ANARCHY...............should be more of it!!!!!!!!

INFAMY! (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kvs4bOMv5Xw)
Title: Re: The ELECTION Thread
Post by: bnwt on August 09, 2010, 04:19:52 PM
Liberal Party under fire for Google ads

"They are brazenly putting forward how undemocratic this system is by using the immense resources they have, resources a candidate like me does not have (boo hoo hoo), because I'm not sponsored by the big end of town," she said.

aaawww and why do you think that is you stupid commie ??

http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2010/08/09/2977671.htm
Title: Re: The ELECTION Thread
Post by: *smee* on August 10, 2010, 08:35:13 AM
(http://pics.kuvaton.com/kuvei/competition.jpg)
Title: Re: The ELECTION Thread
Post by: bnwt on August 10, 2010, 11:01:32 AM
UN role confirmed for Rudd


so it looks like there'll be a by-election in the seat of griffith before too long


http://www.smh.com.au/federal-election/un-role-confirmed-for-rudd-20100810-11v83.html?rand=1281401227097
Title: Re: The ELECTION Thread
Post by: Poddy on August 10, 2010, 01:35:14 PM
(http://i673.photobucket.com/albums/vv95/ozrt/Ratsleavingasinkingship.jpg)
Title: Re: The ELECTION Thread
Post by: elantra on August 10, 2010, 02:29:24 PM
(http://i673.photobucket.com/albums/vv95/ozrt/Ratsleavingasinkingship.jpg)

I don't get that
Title: Re: The ELECTION Thread
Post by: *Brum6y* on August 10, 2010, 04:07:31 PM
Whether you agree with it or not, I thought it self explanatory....

Rats deserting a sinking ship, giving the excuse that "I'm leaving to spend more time with my family...."
Title: Re: The ELECTION Thread
Post by: elantra on August 10, 2010, 05:15:14 PM
Whether you agree with it or not, I thought it self explanatory....

Rats deserting a sinking ship, giving the excuse that "I'm leaving to spend more time with my family...."

Okay so Ive looked up the word Labour, in the hope I could understand,
But now .....sorry I just don't get it.
Does it have something to do with Pregnant Rats?

LABOUR
Pronunciation (US):    

 Dictionary entry overview: What does Labour mean?

• LABOUR (noun)
  The noun LABOUR has 3 senses:

1. a social class comprising those who do manual labor or work for wages
2. concluding state of pregnancy; from the onset of labor to the birth of a child
3. productive work (especially physical work done for wages)

  Familiarity information: LABOUR used as a noun is uncommon.

• LABOUR (verb)
  The verb LABOUR has 3 senses:

1. work hard
2. strive and make an effort to reach a goal
3. undergo the efforts of childbirth

  Familiarity information: LABOUR used as a verb is uncommon.
Title: Re: The ELECTION Thread
Post by: *Brum6y* on August 10, 2010, 05:51:32 PM
Perhaps if we take a microscopic step past pedanticism and look at the possibilities of analogy, inference, suggestion. tongue-in-cheek or even a simple misspelling, then I think the meaning falls into place.

If we wish to take a step closer, the only difference between confusion and understanding is 'u'.
Title: Re: The ELECTION Thread
Post by: mandurahmum on August 10, 2010, 06:40:16 PM
The EPA have confirmed that the oil spill that occurred in the Timor Sea did not reach the Kimberley Coast - like we did not know that already.

But they have also found what went wrong - An inquiry into the spill at Thai-based company PTTEP Australasia's Montara oilfield heard earlier this year that a faulty cement pour and the lack of a control cap on the well were key causes of the blowout.

http://news.smh.com.au/breaking-news-national/report-finds-wa-coast-not-contaminated-20100810-11xls.html (http://news.smh.com.au/breaking-news-national/report-finds-wa-coast-not-contaminated-20100810-11xls.html)

We escaped the bullet that time - but can we be sure this want happen again at Margaret River or on the Kimberley Coast when they start drilling there.  Probably not, I mean what sort of idiot forgets to put the control cap on - the types of idiots we are allowing to drill for oil - thats who

Title: Re: The ELECTION Thread
Post by: bnwt on August 10, 2010, 07:18:48 PM
here's an interesting topic for debate

can you imagine what would have happened if 'the greens' were around when man learned who to use/make fire


I think we'd still be living in caves
Title: Re: The ELECTION Thread
Post by: *r3830* on August 10, 2010, 08:52:24 PM

....if 'the greens' were around when man learned who to use/make fire

I think we'd still be living in caves

Strange bnwt..... I thought many of the greens were still living in caves!
Title: Re: The ELECTION Thread
Post by: bnwt on August 10, 2010, 09:58:28 PM
Labor steadfast over internet filter


http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2010/08/10/2979293.htm
Title: Re: The ELECTION Thread
Post by: *smee* on August 11, 2010, 11:52:59 AM
The seven dwarfs always left to go work in the mine
early each morning.  

As always, Snow White stayed home doing her domestic chores.
 

 
As lunchtime approached, she would prepare their
lunch and carry it to the mine.
 

 
One day as she arrived at the mine with the  lunch, she saw
that there had been a terrible cave-in.
 
Tearfully, and fearing the worst, Snow White
began calling out, hoping against hope that the dwarfs had somehow survived.
'Hello...Hello !' she shouted.    'Can anyone hear me ?    Hello !'

 
For a long while, there was no answer.   Losing  hope, Snow White again shouted,

'Hello !    Is  anyone down there ?'

 
Just as she was about to give up all hope, she  heard a faint voice from deep within the mine,
“VOTE FOR GILLARD”
Snow White fell to her knees and prayed,  'Oh, thank you, God !     At least Dopey is still alive !
Title: Re: The ELECTION Thread
Post by: caadlad52 on August 11, 2010, 05:17:56 PM
While doing a bit of research into the parties in this election, I came across some interesting and quite revealing information relating to The Greens.
If you have any empathy with the Christian faith, morals, ethics or ethos, you may want to know this.

The Australian Christian Lobby (ACL) put 24 questions to each of the political parties of key issues of concern to Christians.
These 24 questions covered a diverse range of topics: Public Christianity, International justice, Poverty, Life (cloning, euthanasia, abortion), Youth & Education, Family, Sexualisation of children, Environment, Justice and Indigenous issues.

Link - http://australiavotes.org.au/ (http://australiavotes.org.au/)

All of the political parties gave a response to each of the 24 questions - Except the Greens.
The Greens declined to answer 18 of the 24 questions.
Perhaps they won't respond to these questions for the same reason Obama can't/won't prove he's eligible to be president - the answers would be too revealing, perhaps!


 
Title: Re: The ELECTION Thread
Post by: bnwt on August 11, 2010, 10:02:30 PM
Labor candidate Hugh Zochling embarrasses SBS on Insight by failing to identify himself


http://www.theaustralian.com.au/national-affairs/labor-candidate-hugh-zochling-embarrasses-sbs-on-insight-by-failing-to-identify-himself/story-fn59niix-1225903934717
Title: Re: The ELECTION Thread
Post by: *r3830* on August 11, 2010, 10:14:29 PM
From what I've just seen on SKY News - The Election Debate at Rooty Hill tonight, The Labor party should be quite concerned regarding next Saturday. Tony Abbott was excellent. (I actually didn't like the bloke prior to tonight!)

http://www.news.com.au/features/federal-election/gillard-faces-grilling-at-public-forum/story-e6frfllr-1225904090857 (http://www.news.com.au/features/federal-election/gillard-faces-grilling-at-public-forum/story-e6frfllr-1225904090857)

There's a replay of this down the page.
Title: Re: The ELECTION Thread
Post by: bnwt on August 12, 2010, 07:28:43 AM
when speaking about the rooty hill forum all the media are saying tony abbott won it

all except the the sydney morning herald with their front page saying PM grilled as Tony tiptoes : Rooty Hill RSL gives Tony Abbott a warm welcome while Julia Gillard is forced to explain Kevin Rudd's dumping.

their video ( http://media.smh.com.au/national/selections/voters-let-loose-on-party-leaders-1772924.html?from=newsbox ) on the event exclaims : there was clearly no winner on the night

excuse my smh that is an out and out LIE

there was an exit poll of the 200 audience members ........ the results were gillard 59 / abbott 71


and who would have thought the the sydney morning herald was biased to labor
Title: Re: The ELECTION Thread
Post by: *smee* on August 12, 2010, 07:39:53 AM
there was an exit poll of the 200 audience members ........ the results were gillard 59 / abbott 71

Tags I heard these figures on the news this morning but what happened to the other 70 people ?????

perhaps they havent excited yet ??? still in the RSL playing pokkies perhaps ??
Title: Re: The ELECTION Thread
Post by: elantra on August 12, 2010, 12:23:43 PM
I bet you guys are really excited about the oppositions broadband plan.

http://www.itwire.com/it-policy-news/government-tech-policy/41090-abbott-broadband-an-economic-disaster (http://www.itwire.com/it-policy-news/government-tech-policy/41090-abbott-broadband-an-economic-disaster)

http://www.smh.com.au/national/letters/file-abbotts-plan-with-wooden-rails-and-candles-20100811-11znf.html (http://www.smh.com.au/national/letters/file-abbotts-plan-with-wooden-rails-and-candles-20100811-11znf.html)

(http://www.mysunshinecoast.com.au/articles/article-display/tony-abbott-snubs-regional-queensland-with-second-rate-broadband-plan,18203)

Guess we were lucky he was not around when Australia was laying rail tracks.
He would have come up with a plan to keep the covered wagons.

See Tasmania turned on their new broadband network this morning & are getting download speed of up to 1GB per second
Gee even New Zealand will have a better network than us.
Title: Re: The ELECTION Thread
Post by: elantra on August 12, 2010, 12:28:29 PM
This is what we want.

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/national-affairs/taxpayers-to-pay-no-more-for-nbn-with-even-faster-download-speeds-labor/story-fn59niix-1225904313190 (http://www.theaustralian.com.au/national-affairs/taxpayers-to-pay-no-more-for-nbn-with-even-faster-download-speeds-labor/story-fn59niix-1225904313190)

This is phony tonys  Patchwork plan.

http://www.computerworld.com.au/article/353759/opinion_coalition_continues_live_broadband_past/ (http://www.computerworld.com.au/article/353759/opinion_coalition_continues_live_broadband_past/)
Title: Re: The ELECTION Thread
Post by: elantra on August 12, 2010, 12:43:33 PM
Perhaps if we take a microscopic step past pedanticism and look at the possibilities of analogy, inference, suggestion. tongue-in-cheek or even a simple misspelling, then I think the meaning falls into place.

If we wish to take a step closer, the only difference between confusion and understanding is 'u'.

So it's incorrect spelling,, So the rats are jumpping off a ship called Harbour into the Harbour?
Nah,, still don't get it.
Title: Re: The ELECTION Thread
Post by: *r3830* on August 12, 2010, 12:44:03 PM
100MB/S.... sounds good.... now big are the quotas on these plens? 3GB...10GB..25GB/mth? (whirlpool report $150/mth)

And even with the 100MB/S service.... if the place I download from is running at 7KB/S.... my incoming speed = 7KB/S.

I watch streaming HD Video over a 9MB/S ADSL 2+ service with no problems at all. I don't see the 'need for additional speed' as critical to the life of all Australians.
Title: Re: The ELECTION Thread
Post by: bnwt on August 12, 2010, 01:48:33 PM
I think abbott's claim that he's not a tech head endeared him to a lot of voters
Title: Re: The ELECTION Thread
Post by: *Brum6y* on August 12, 2010, 02:03:46 PM
Perhaps if we take a microscopic step past pedanticism and look at the possibilities of analogy, inference, suggestion. tongue-in-cheek or even a simple misspelling, then I think the meaning falls into place.

If we wish to take a step closer, the only difference between confusion and understanding is 'u'.

So it's incorrect spelling,, So the rats are jumpping off a ship called Harbour into the Harbour?
Nah,, still don't get it.

Funny - I actually gave the letter that needed to be considered for the spelling issue ... rather explicitly too.


I will leave it to other readers to form their own opinion on the skills of comprehension, spelling and/or wit of some (I presume to be) Aussie voters.
Title: Re: The ELECTION Thread
Post by: *r3830* on August 12, 2010, 04:29:53 PM
I think abbott's claim that he's not a tech head endeared him to a lot of voters

bnwt - Perhaps that's right. I don't understand why the beat-up on this point by the media. (Julia stated that she wasn't critical of Abbott over this) Is it reasonable to expect either leader to have a full insight into the hows, whys and technicalities involved in the supply of internet services? BOTH parties have their own technical specialists to provide them with advice.

The big difference = the costs associated with each plan. National broadband is a good initiative in many ways - but shouldn't that be balanced against the costs of providing it.... and a further assessment of more critical priorities?
Title: Re: The ELECTION Thread
Post by: elantra on August 12, 2010, 04:44:18 PM
I'll turn back the boats

(http://i208.photobucket.com/albums/bb22/interest88/2010-05-28TonyAbbottPacificSolutionexplained600.jpg)
Title: Re: The ELECTION Thread
Post by: elantra on August 12, 2010, 05:05:14 PM
Perhaps if we take a microscopic step past pedanticism and look at the possibilities of analogy, inference, suggestion. tongue-in-cheek or even a simple misspelling, then I think the meaning falls into place.

If we wish to take a step closer, the only difference between confusion and understanding is 'u'.

So it's incorrect spelling,, So the rats are jumpping off a ship called Harbour into the Harbour?
Nah,, still don't get it.

Funny - I actually gave the letter that needed to be considered for the spelling issue ... rather explicitly too.


I will leave it to other readers to form their own opinion on the skills of comprehension, spelling and/or wit of some (I presume to be) Aussie voters.

Useing a United Kingdom cartoon to poke fun & try to score cheap points at an Australian political party,
 doesn't quite work for some of us Australians I'm afraid.
Try for something more relevant, & it might be funny, I didn't think that was.
Title: Re: The ELECTION Thread
Post by: *Brum6y* on August 12, 2010, 05:09:36 PM
EXHIBIT A
I'll turn back the boats

(http://i208.photobucket.com/albums/bb22/interest88/2010-05-28TonyAbbottPacificSolutionexplained600.jpg)


EXHIBIT B

..... to poke fun & try to score cheap points at an Australian political party,
 doesn't quite work for some of us Australians I'm afraid.
Try for something more relevant, & it might be funny, I didn't think that was.



Hmmmm.....
Title: Re: The ELECTION Thread
Post by: elantra on August 12, 2010, 05:26:49 PM
EXHIBIT A
I'll turn back the boats

(http://i208.photobucket.com/albums/bb22/interest88/2010-05-28TonyAbbottPacificSolutionexplained600.jpg)


EXHIBIT B

..... to poke fun & try to score cheap points at an Australian political party,
 doesn't quite work for some of us Australians I'm afraid.
Try for something more relevant, & it might be funny, I didn't think that was.



Hmmmm.....
It is Australian, & I think all the spelling is correct
Title: Re: The ELECTION Thread
Post by: *CountessA* on August 12, 2010, 05:52:28 PM
I'm a swing voter.

I am not and never have been dedicated to any one particular party.

(I should add though that I will never in any way support the Greens. I don't agree with the virtual worship of wildlife at the expense of human life, and it is in my opinion disgraceful that the Greens' pressure was contributory to the lack of backburning which could at least have mitigated the shocking loss of life during the Black Saturday bushfires. There are other issues into which I decline to go, but which add weight to my disapprobation of the Green party.)

I have voted both Labour and Liberal.

It's very much the calibre of the leader as well as the policies of the party that influences my voting. While I'd love to see a woman duly elected as Prime Minister of Australia, I find myself unable to respect the calibre of Julia Gillard for numerous reasons. That has been the major factor in my decision on how I will vote this time. (There is actually nothing Ms Gillard could do to win back my respect at this stage. Prior to her becoming the leader of this present government, that wasn't the case.)
Title: Re: The ELECTION Thread
Post by: mandurahmum on August 12, 2010, 06:30:52 PM
I bet you guys are really excited about the oppositions broadband plan.

http://www.itwire.com/it-policy-news/government-tech-policy/41090-abbott-broadband-an-economic-disaster (http://www.itwire.com/it-policy-news/government-tech-policy/41090-abbott-broadband-an-economic-disaster)

http://www.smh.com.au/national/letters/file-abbotts-plan-with-wooden-rails-and-candles-20100811-11znf.html (http://www.smh.com.au/national/letters/file-abbotts-plan-with-wooden-rails-and-candles-20100811-11znf.html)

(http://www.mysunshinecoast.com.au/articles/article-display/tony-abbott-snubs-regional-queensland-with-second-rate-broadband-plan,18203)

Guess we were lucky he was not around when Australia was laying rail tracks.
He would have come up with a plan to keep the covered wagons.

See Tasmania turned on their new broadband network this morning & are getting download speed of up to 1GB per second
Gee even New Zealand will have a better network than us.


For purely selfish reasons I am more excited for the Labors nbn.  You see I cant get adsl - in fact the fastest speed I can get is 512kp.  Although I live in a city - that is about 70km's from Perth.  We were only given adsl1 a couple of years ago, but apparently I live to far from the exchange or something(I zoned out when they were explaining it to me)

But under the Labour plan - Mandurah will be one of the first locations in WA to be hooked up to the new system.

I dont know much about Abbots scheme - But I do know from past experience that WA will be one of the last to get it.  Which is weird since it is this state that is probably paying for Melbourne and Sydney to get theirs.  And because I live in regional WA - I will be one of the last.

As a WA I just want our fair share, we deserve it



Title: Re: The ELECTION Thread
Post by: mandurahmum on August 12, 2010, 06:33:37 PM
Have people forgot that Abbot did the same thing to Turnball that Julia did to Rudd.
Title: Re: The ELECTION Thread
Post by: bnwt on August 12, 2010, 06:40:01 PM
not quite


the liberal party elected turnbull and then dumped him

the people of australia elected krudd and I think the people of australia should have decided is he stayed or got dumped


this is my main reason for wanting labor to lose ....... so the faceless backroom boys are not rewarded

(I live in NSW and seen them in action for years ... the sussex street crew don't use democracy just plain out right thuggery)
Title: Re: The ELECTION Thread
Post by: elantra on August 12, 2010, 06:51:46 PM
not quite


the liberal party elected turnbull and the dumped him

the people of australia elected krudd and I think the people of australia should have decided is he stayed or got dumped
This is not America, we do not, I repeat, do not elect a leader. The party elects a leader.
You know this as well as I know this.
I am voting for my local Member, I think you will be doing the same.
Not for PHONY TONY or FOOLYA JULIYA but the local member.

But lets keep saying the same thing over & over again.
It is all paper talk & gets in the way of the issue's.
Wait ,,, there you go, that's why the Liberal party keeps up the same rhetoric.
To keep PHONY TONY off the real issue's.


Title: Re: The ELECTION Thread
Post by: mandurahmum on August 12, 2010, 06:55:02 PM
not quite


the liberal party elected turnbull and the dumped him

the people of australia elected krudd and I think the people of australia should have decided is he stayed or got dumped
This is not America, we do not, I repeat, do not elect a leader. The party elects a leader.
You know this as well as I know this.
I am voting for my local Member, I think you will be doing the same.
Not for PHONY TONY or FOOLYA JULIYA but the local member.

But lets keep saying the same thing over & over again.
It is all paper talk & gets in the way of the issue's.
Wait ,,, there you go, that's why the Liberal party keeps up the same rhetoric.
To keep PHONY TONY off the real issue's.




exactly - we vote for our local member - not who will be Prime Minister.

There is no guarantee that Julia or Tony will be Prime Minister - first they have to win their own seat.
Title: Re: The ELECTION Thread
Post by: elantra on August 12, 2010, 07:05:15 PM
not quite


the liberal party elected turnbull and the dumped him

the people of australia elected krudd and I think the people of australia should have decided is he stayed or got dumped
This is not America, we do not, I repeat, do not elect a leader. The party elects a leader.
You know this as well as I know this.
I am voting for my local Member, I think you will be doing the same.
Not for PHONY TONY or FOOLYA JULIYA but the local member.

But lets keep saying the same thing over & over again.
It is all paper talk & gets in the way of the issue's.
Wait ,,, there you go, that's why the Liberal party keeps up the same rhetoric.
To keep PHONY TONY off the real issue's.




exactly - we vote for our local member - not who will be Prime Minister.

There is no guarantee that Julia or Tony will be Prime Minister - first they have to win their own seat.

And of course the Liberal Party are pissed off because they can't use the Thousands of Lemons that they bought to use  for the Kevin o Lemon campaign.
Title: Re: The ELECTION Thread
Post by: *r3830* on August 12, 2010, 07:32:31 PM
This is not America, we do not, I repeat, do not elect a leader. The party elects a leader.

Now that's an interesting thought. So, you're telling me that the Labor party misled the population with the Kevin07 campaign - in that Kevin Rudd was made the focal point of the election.... and the people supported HIM. (Why do you think a large part of the voting community is so seriously peeved with Labor at the moment?)

Some wisdom from Tony Abbott may help.... where he said that Opposition Leaders are selected by the party - and often do change, because they belong to the party. Prime Ministers on the other hand belong to BOTH the party and the people.

I wouldn't have voted for Mr Rudd's government - because I don't support a number of the party policies. I do believe however, that with Kevin Rudd at the helm, Labor would have been returned to government. But - we'll never know, will we.... because the Labor party quite obviously has serious issues with standing by their own people. And - they know much better than the voters anyhow - at least, in their own minds!
Title: Re: The ELECTION Thread
Post by: mandurahmum on August 12, 2010, 08:59:09 PM
Abbot has shown once again that he cant be trusted, even when its for charity

http://news.smh.com.au/breaking-news-national/surfs-up-but-abbotts-absent-getup-20100811-11zfd.html (http://news.smh.com.au/breaking-news-national/surfs-up-but-abbotts-absent-getup-20100811-11zfd.html)
Title: Re: The ELECTION Thread
Post by: *Brum6y* on August 12, 2010, 10:46:36 PM
Abbot has shown once again that he cant be trusted, even when its for charity

http://news.smh.com.au/breaking-news-national/surfs-up-but-abbotts-absent-getup-20100811-11zfd.html (http://news.smh.com.au/breaking-news-national/surfs-up-but-abbotts-absent-getup-20100811-11zfd.html)

That's rather unfair.

The article has conflicting opinion on the matter of communication and there has been no suggestion from either side that the commitment will be disregarded.

As for the timing ... well things are a little more hectic than may have been expected back then. I would not begrudge any campaigning politician from deferring such a matter at this time...

... besides, breakfast with the PM would be a bigger deal in my book.
Title: Re: The ELECTION Thread
Post by: elantra on August 12, 2010, 11:24:24 PM
This is not America, we do not, I repeat, do not elect a leader. The party elects a leader.

Now that's an interesting thought. So, you're telling me that the Labor party misled the population with the Kevin07 campaign - in that Kevin Rudd was made the focal point of the election.... and the people supported HIM. (Why do you think a large part of the voting community is so seriously peeved with Labor at the moment?)

Some wisdom from Tony Abbott may help.... where he said that Opposition Leaders are selected by the party - and often do change, because they belong to the party. Prime Ministers on the other hand belong to BOTH the party and the people.

I wouldn't have voted for Mr Rudd's government - because I don't support a number of the party policies. I do believe however, that with Kevin Rudd at the helm, Labor would have been returned to government. But - we'll never know, will we.... because the Labor party quite obviously has serious issues with standing by their own people. And - they know much better than the voters anyhow - at least, in their own minds!
I seem to remember about three & a half years ago, when Costello told the then Prime minister John Howard, that the polls were saying that they can not win the next election with him (Howard) as leader,
But as was Howards want he refused to step down for the good of the party, what happened  next is history.
Had he stood down, well who knows?

On the other hand when prime minister Kevin Rudd was told that the polls were saying that they can not win the next election with him (Rudd) as leader, for the benefit of the party it would be best if he stood down.
He did the right thing (for the benefit of the party) & stood down what happened  next is history.

The same reason Sir Robert Menzies stood aside for Harold Holt.

What about what William Mcmahon did to John Gorton.
What about what Paul Keating did to Bob Hawke.

Im sorry but It's silly to think the leader belongs to the party & the people,
cut to the chase the only thing for certain is that a politician will be elected leader.
The only thing different this time is that one is female.
Title: Re: The ELECTION Thread
Post by: bnwt on August 13, 2010, 11:07:02 AM
elantra

when you say This is not America, we do not, I repeat, do not elect a leader. The party elects a leader.

why does she keep referring to the Gillard Government ??????
Title: Re: The ELECTION Thread
Post by: elantra on August 13, 2010, 12:44:27 PM
elantra

when you say This is not America, we do not, I repeat, do not elect a leader. The party elects a leader.

why does she keep referring to the Gillard Government ??????

When Tony Abbott refers to  "my goverenment"  does he own it?????

c'mon
Title: Re: The ELECTION Thread
Post by: *r3830* on August 13, 2010, 02:17:55 PM
I seem to remember about three & a half years ago, when Costello told the then Prime minister John Howard, that the polls were saying that they can not win the next election with him (Howard) as leader,
But as was Howards want he refused to step down for the good of the party, what happened  next is history.
Had he stood down, well who knows?


That's quite true - but the decision was left to the people who elected him in the first place to decide on his fate. Dare I suggest that had it not been for one Kevin Rudd - about the only person in the then Labor Party with any talent whatsoever - Howard would have won another term. Thank goodness for the Kevin07 campaign!

On the other hand when prime minister Kevin Rudd was told that the polls were saying that they can not win the next election with him (Rudd) as leader, for the benefit of the party it would be best if he stood down.

Yep - bugga what the people of the nation thought or felt about that.... it was decided by a group of unionists and a handful of political crooks. Life is short in the labor party - from dying devotion today to assassination after dark.

He did the right thing (for the benefit of the party) & stood down what happened  next is history.

And.... his choices in doing the 'right thing' were......

He stood down? Sorry - he was unceremoniously removed by his so called supporters!

The same reason Sir Robert Menzies stood aside for Harold Holt.

Was there a Julia Gillard in the Menzies government? I didn't know that. You live and learn! I do remember how Harold Hold joined with a Russian Sub at Portsea and disappeared. That was imaginative too.

What about what William Mcmahon did to John Gorton.

What about John Gorton? He was subjected to a party room vote which was split. He could have held his position - but cast his own vote against himself. Seems he believed that he could not serve without the greater support of his party. Incidentally, did you know that he wasn't popular with the people because of the scarring he had from war?

What about what Paul Keating did to Bob Hawke.

Keating had an agreement with Hawke didn't he? Much the same as the agreement that Rudd had with Gillard - but she chose not to honour hers!

Im sorry but It's silly to think the leader belongs to the party & the people,

No apology necessary. Times have seriously changed since the sixties - in many ways.

cut to the chase the only thing for certain is that a politician will be elected leader.

Absolutely right - and I do believe that we all live in the hope of a better future

The only thing different this time is that one is female.

And that is the saddest part of the whole fiasco. The powerbrokers believe that by placing a woman in the position that they will get a boost from the female voters. I find that an absolutely demeaning action - to all women. Julia's been handed a poisoned chalice by her colleagues..... whose only interest is a return to government at whatever cost - and in whatever way, devious or otherwise.
Title: Re: The ELECTION Thread
Post by: tellomon on August 13, 2010, 03:08:33 PM
Unable to care.
Title: Re: The ELECTION Thread
Post by: *CountessA* on August 13, 2010, 03:59:16 PM
r3830, I find myself nodding in agreement with the points you've made.

I cannot see the removal of Kevin Rudd from his position as Prime Minister in the same terms that you've described, Elantra. If Mr Rudd had decided to stand down, that would have been an entirely different situation, don't you think? But the sense that so many voters have is that machinations and scheming occurred in the back rooms, where the decision was taken that Kevin Rudd would be summarily ejected and Julia Gillard would take over. Clearly a lot of this scheming occurred without Julia's presence... and one could argue that she merely took the bat and ran with it once the "faceless men" presented her with their views... but in my opinion that isn't a tenable conclusion, for the following reasons:

1. It is unthinkable that the "faceless men" had any discussion about Ms Gillard taking over without having sounded her out prior to any serious and definite discussions.
    a) If the faceless men had made a confirmed enemy of Mr Rudd by backroom plans for his political assassination
        (which I think is inarguable), they would have been incredibly stupid to have done so without having a replacement
        not only in mind but poised and ready to take over. (It could be argued that Mr Rudd and the faceless men were
        ALREADY at loggerheads, since the most persistent accusation against him is that he wouldn't take advice... and to
        my mind this signals that Rudd was not kowtowing to the faceless men in the backroom when they wanted to enforce
        their wishes onto him. In that case, they were already enemies... but there's a difference between an enmity that is
        really just a strong difference of opinion, and an enmity that is the result of concerted and brutal attack.)
    b) If the faceless men hadn't already had Julia Gillard's approval (however tacitly and cautiously expressed), they would
        have been blowing hot air and wasting their incredibly valuable (in dollar terms) time by all of their closet discussions.
    c) If the faceless men had not sounded out Julia Gillard sufficiently in advance for their plans to undergo discussion and
        development, they'd have had someone else in mind as the challenger, and backed him/her instead. That didn't occur;
        ergo, Ms Gillard was the one who'd been sounded out all along.
    d) A serious issue like a leadership challenge in Australian politics requires an awful lot of backing and influence from men
        who either have decision-making power OR who hold the strings behind the scenes. When it's less a challenge than it
        is a mugging, it's even more a case of great backing and influence being needed. Men with that sort of power
        do not play nice games along the lines of "Well, so it's agreed then? We'll ask Julia - who will be SO surprised by our
        request - to save us all by taking over the leadership?" No. If Ms Gillard were to swear upon a signed first edition of
        The Female Eunuch that she was telling the truth and had NO intention of challenging for the leadership before that
        evening, I'd look her straight in the face and tell her that I knew she was lying.

2. ... I had another lot of points I wanted to make, but the pain has just got worse and I'm going to lie down. (sorry)
Title: Re: The ELECTION Thread
Post by: *r3830* on August 13, 2010, 05:19:23 PM
Countess -It's soooo good to see you but... PLEASE - get better soon! Your presence is seriously missed in this forum!
Title: Re: The ELECTION Thread
Post by: *Ubbie Max* on August 13, 2010, 08:03:04 PM
Yeah Countess, what R numbers said & don't forget, Pepsi Max cures all ills!.
Title: Re: The ELECTION Thread
Post by: mandurahmum on August 13, 2010, 09:17:52 PM
As someone who has access to fuelwatch - let me say that I love it.  I check online whenever I need fuel.  Its so easy and convenient, I can check on the price of all petrol stations near me for todays price, and after 6pm, I can check tomorrows price.

I cant guarantee that it has brought fuel prices down, but i do know most people over here, well the smart ones, use it.  There have been times that I have saved 16 cents a litre - but usually I can save at least 5 cents a litre.  It might not sound like much - but over the year - it must save me hundreds. 

I cant rave about fuelwatch enough - its a shame that it was not brought in all over the country.  Because I can guarantee - yes guarantee that it one of the best things on the internet,  and you would save a lot of money.
Title: Re: The ELECTION Thread
Post by: *r3830* on August 14, 2010, 07:03:15 PM
Union bullies in campaign of fear


FEDERAL public servants are being "bullied" into voting Labor, with a powerful union telephoning members to tell them a vote for Tony Abbott will lead to job cuts and a wage freeze.


It's not only Federal public servants either.... I'll give ya the drum! I've had a phone call and a letter telling me to vote for the crooks too. BOTH gained a similar response, not altogether from Tello's Keywords..... FLOCK OFF YOU MISERABLE BARSTARDS! ! Well, the first word had a similarity anyhow - one less letter!

http://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/election/union-bullies-in-campaign-of-fear/story-fn5zm695-1225905104336 (http://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/election/union-bullies-in-campaign-of-fear/story-fn5zm695-1225905104336)
Title: Re: The ELECTION Thread
Post by: *r3830* on August 15, 2010, 08:26:16 AM
Papers back Julia Gillard, voters want Tony Abbott

AUSTRALIA'S Sunday newspapers have backed Julia Gillard to win the election, saying Labor deserves a second term.

But voters don't seem to agree, with the latest opinion poll suggesting Tony Abbott will win the 17 seats he needs for an election victor

 
http://www.news.com.au/features/federal-election/papers-back-julia-gillard-voters-want-tony-abbott/story-e6frfllr-1225905381027 (http://www.news.com.au/features/federal-election/papers-back-julia-gillard-voters-want-tony-abbott/story-e6frfllr-1225905381027)

Title: Re: The ELECTION Thread
Post by: *r3830* on August 15, 2010, 09:42:36 AM
Poll shows Labor on the ropes, Abbott poised for historic win

JULIA Gillard's Government is on a collision course with disaster, according to a Galaxy poll of 4000 voters in 20 of the nation's most marginal seats.


http://www.perthnow.com.au/news/poll-shows-labor-on-the-ropes-abbott-poised-for-historic-win/story-e6frg12c-1225905327849 (http://www.perthnow.com.au/news/poll-shows-labor-on-the-ropes-abbott-poised-for-historic-win/story-e6frg12c-1225905327849)
Title: Re: The ELECTION Thread
Post by: bnwt on August 15, 2010, 04:35:17 PM
Polls point to Abbott win: Labor


best line in the video : "labor state governments are about as popular as a chikito in a public pool"

http://au.news.yahoo.com/a/-/newshome/7763938/polls-point-to-abbott-win-labor/
Title: Re: The ELECTION Thread
Post by: *Yibida* on August 15, 2010, 06:49:24 PM
Polls point to Abbott win: Labor


best line in the video : "labor state governments are about as popular as a chikito in a public pool"

http://au.news.yahoo.com/a/-/newshome/7763938/polls-point-to-abbott-win-labor/


You Been watching caddy shack eh bnwt ?.... LOLOL
Title: Re: The ELECTION Thread
Post by: callostemma on August 15, 2010, 07:37:43 PM
IN reality,  no-one knows.   Its going to be a close election. :vote:
Title: Re: The ELECTION Thread
Post by: *r3830* on August 15, 2010, 07:59:30 PM
Well, I wasn't going to watch 60 Minutes tonight.... but I'm pleased that I did. Mark Latham's story was actually quite interesting. I can't say that I agree with his solution - that being voting informal. He believed that both parties are playing it safe.... and found very little actual difference between them. That's probably correct at the moment - but certainly won't be so come their first term in government.
Title: Re: The ELECTION Thread
Post by: Poddy on August 15, 2010, 08:03:14 PM
In the final analysis does it really matter which party gets elected?

They are all tarred with the same brush.

Each party is full of hot air and make promises that they know they are not going to keep.

I would like to see goal terms handed out for every promise that is not kept.
Title: Re: The ELECTION Thread
Post by: *r3830* on August 15, 2010, 08:20:41 PM
As one lady responded in the interview Poddy, It's no longer about which party is going to do the best job for the people and the country.... it's now come down to which party will do the least damage to the place.
Title: Re: The ELECTION Thread
Post by: Poddy on August 15, 2010, 08:23:52 PM
One smart Lady :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :)
Title: Re: The ELECTION Thread
Post by: *FluffyDuckee* on August 15, 2010, 08:27:21 PM
Very smart lady.  Agreed. 

Politics will always be politics, they are all in it for themselves, so the question becomes who is more experienced and capable of managing money and the country.
Title: Re: The ELECTION Thread
Post by: Poddy on August 15, 2010, 08:57:03 PM
The burning Question is:-

Who is less power hungry, easily led, egotistical and blinded by the brilliance the perceive themselves to have.
Title: Re: The ELECTION Thread
Post by: *Yibida* on August 15, 2010, 10:20:05 PM


We are Doomed which ever party gets in.... it's now a matter of minimizing the collateral damage we will sustain from who ever get's in....
Title: Re: The ELECTION Thread
Post by: bnwt on August 16, 2010, 03:43:31 PM

Negative campaign ads


Watch Roy Morgan's PolliGraph voter responses to Coalition and Labor campaign ads

http://player.video.news.com.au/theaustralian/#lUogHfXrHUivkXncGxteqxpK1vRmRzAO
Title: Re: The ELECTION Thread
Post by: bnwt on August 16, 2010, 10:40:10 PM
Labor rail pledge didn't get Cabinet approval


http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2010/08/16/2984706.htm
Title: Re: The ELECTION Thread
Post by: *Brum6y* on August 17, 2010, 02:13:02 AM
Labor rail pledge didn't get Cabinet approval


http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2010/08/16/2984706.htm

"I understand there would be people in western Sydney who shrug their shoulders a bit and say, 'Gee, I've heard all this before.'

Yep ... and I'm one of them.
Title: Re: The ELECTION Thread
Post by: bnwt on August 17, 2010, 07:21:55 AM
Yep ... and I'm one of them.


I seriously can not believe labor thought this idea would gain them votes .... after years of similar announcements being made by the appalling state labor government and then never delivered I am sure that the parra - epping rail announcement will lose them votes

hey 'real' julia don't you forget there was a 26% against labor in penrith just a few months ago
Title: Re: The ELECTION Thread
Post by: shyer on August 17, 2010, 12:44:18 PM
http://www.vexnews.com/news/10566/greenileaks-dissidents-spill-the-beans-on-greens-party-sleaze/ (http://www.vexnews.com/news/10566/greenileaks-dissidents-spill-the-beans-on-greens-party-sleaze/)

Read this for real story about the commo greens

Quote
“Our research shows that preferences are an extremely damaging issue for us to talk about. Talking about preferences makes voters think a vote for the Greens is not meaningful, that it is being stolen from them and put somewhere they didn’t decide, and that politics is about backroom deals they are not part of.” Greens party leader Bob Brown’s staffer Erin Farley being candid with the comrades…
Title: Re: The ELECTION Thread
Post by: *r3830* on August 17, 2010, 02:02:40 PM
Shyer - that is a most interesting story. Didn't Julia say that there were no arrangements inplace with the Greens..... ie: no deals?
Title: Re: The ELECTION Thread
Post by: mandurahmum on August 17, 2010, 05:17:26 PM
I am so sick of hearing how this election will be won or lost in NSW and QLD.  I am so sick of those states being selected for these debates and town hall meetings.

Is it any wonder why WAussies always feel short changed in elections.  Often the results are known before our polling booths are even closed.

Both parties dont give a crap about us - they seem to forget that We support the whole country financially.  And what do we get in return - we get short changed every single time.

Maybe its time for us to think about sucession again.
Title: Re: The ELECTION Thread
Post by: bnwt on August 17, 2010, 06:01:00 PM
WAussies can be the jewel in the crown and deal labor the final death blow
Title: Re: The ELECTION Thread
Post by: mandurahmum on August 17, 2010, 07:40:25 PM
WAussies can be the jewel in the crown and deal labor the final death blow

Why would we do that - The previous Liberal government treated us even worse.  John Howard visited us so infrequently that we were not even sure he knew we existed except as a cash cow.

And our State Liberal Party is run by the biggest dick ever known, Colin Barnett has made us all suffer by putting up the prices on electricity and water - they have risen by nearly 50%.  My last Electricty bill was double the price of last years, this despite my son moving out.  And by cutting spending on essential services like health and police.

And lets not forget the royalties for regions scheme - that is how be bought the election -and we all know about it.  And haven't the regions benefited.  I mean 250,000 for a singing toilet in Bunbury - that money should have been spent on roads, hospitals or something worthwhile. 

His former Treasurer was a chair sniffer and someone who thought it was appropriate to roll around on the floor barking like a dog in front of female staffers.   He also squirrel gripped another member in Parliament - how is that appropriate.

But that is not what got him fired - it was having an affair with the greens member of Fremantle and then telling us that he may have used tax payers money to pay for this - but then told us that he didn't.  Surely a treasurer should know the rules, he was eventually cleared by the crimes commission - which we all know has no balls and no guts - and is probably corrupt too.

Title: Re: The ELECTION Thread
Post by: *r3830* on August 17, 2010, 08:25:10 PM
And our State Liberal Party is run by the biggest dick ever known,

LOLOL - You're not on your own in the above statement mum! We've got Mrs K'nell running the show over here!

But that is not what got him fired - it was having an affair with the greens member of Fremantle

There ya go.... can't trust the blardy greens!


But Julia.... Check this out... how to get caught with your political panties down!! Big Girls you ask? Well, maybe - you decide!

The hidden truth behind the PM's 'impromptu' speech


Even a cursory glance showed it was a written speech. A closer inspection showed it was the very speech she had delivered, word for word.

http://www.theage.com.au/federal-election/the-hidden-truth-behind-the-pms-impromptu-speech-20100817-127hr.html (http://www.theage.com.au/federal-election/the-hidden-truth-behind-the-pms-impromptu-speech-20100817-127hr.html)
Title: Re: The ELECTION Thread
Post by: Poddy on August 17, 2010, 08:51:03 PM
What a lovely view of the 'real' Julia hahahaha.

VERY true to life :)
Title: Re: The ELECTION Thread
Post by: *Ubbie Max* on August 17, 2010, 08:54:05 PM
Talking about succession, I wonder how Prince Leonard from the Province of Hut is going.
Title: Re: The ELECTION Thread
Post by: *r3830* on August 17, 2010, 08:59:07 PM
Poddy - I had to have a chuckle to myself when I read the article. Really, I spose she wasn't being directly dishonest in not correcting the fact that she had read this thing out.... whilst taking in the accolades for it being purely "from the heart." A little fib by omission perhaps. Just a tiny one....

Of course... with every bad situation - there is an 'up' side. She proved beyond doubt, that she can read! Doubtful that it was her heart that drove the keyboard however.....


UBBS! Did you know that Ms Gillard is dropping the tax on SPROUTS????? (Green preferences ya know!)
Title: Re: The ELECTION Thread
Post by: Poddy on August 17, 2010, 11:08:18 PM
Numbers, politics and diplomacy are smoke and mirrors, the art of producing reams of diatribe with no substance.

I have often wondered why Pollys don't just say it as it is instead of sidestepping issues and dodging and weaving constantly.

I can't imagine that they believe any of what they say and if they don't believe it why do they expect anyone else to believe it??
Title: Re: The ELECTION Thread
Post by: mandurahmum on August 18, 2010, 12:27:02 AM
Another funny ad from fair go for billionaires

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tcHzu8msQmc&feature=player_embedded (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tcHzu8msQmc&feature=player_embedded)

Title: Re: The ELECTION Thread
Post by: shyer on August 18, 2010, 01:02:49 PM
Who ARE you Voting for Jullia gone and SWAN IN?

http://www.smh.com.au/federal-election/labor-blood-will-flow-over-rudd-dumping-says-union-boss-20100818-12aw4.html (http://www.smh.com.au/federal-election/labor-blood-will-flow-over-rudd-dumping-says-union-boss-20100818-12aw4.html)
Title: Re: The ELECTION Thread
Post by: elantra on August 18, 2010, 05:17:10 PM
What about this BUMBLING Robb on Sky news????
Even his glasses aren't straight.



Title: Re: The ELECTION Thread
Post by: elantra on August 18, 2010, 05:30:01 PM
The coalition is saying that the Treasury is corrupt!!

I guess they would know there were the ones to corrupt it.
Where is Godwin Gretsch these days? Remember UTEGATE???

Title: Re: The ELECTION Thread
Post by: mandurahmum on August 18, 2010, 05:43:23 PM
The coalition is saying that the Treasury is corrupt!!

I guess they would know there were the ones to corrupt it.
Where is Godwin Gretsch these days? Remember UTEGATE???



 :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:
Title: Re: The ELECTION Thread
Post by: *Ubbie Max* on August 18, 2010, 06:06:12 PM
Re #705. Shocking news R numbers. I say quadruple the sprout tax & while their at it, quadruple the tax on all vegetables, except spuds.

Firstly they must enact a tax for veges (except spuds) & then, they factor in the quadruple equation. While they are at it they must repeal the GST on Pepsi Max & shop fried Pluto Pups.

Cut out the Excise on beer & money back if your horse doesn't run a place.
Title: Re: The ELECTION Thread
Post by: callostemma on August 18, 2010, 06:31:13 PM
Did you know that fresh vegies are GST free.   You only have to pay for buying them :romanrelax: :chef:
Title: Re: The ELECTION Thread
Post by: Roo on August 18, 2010, 08:23:20 PM
Did you know that fresh vegies are GST free.   You only have to pay for buying them :romanrelax: :chef:

Unless the vegies are baked into a cake...like carrot cake..lol

Title: Re: The ELECTION Thread
Post by: elantra on August 18, 2010, 09:13:35 PM
The coalition is saying that the Treasury is corrupt!!

I guess they would know there were the ones to corrupt it.
Where is Godwin Gretsch these days? Remember UTEGATE???



 :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:
:rofl: :rofl: :rofl:
Title: Re: The ELECTION Thread
Post by: elantra on August 18, 2010, 10:07:03 PM
Wednesday night 10pm.

I am predicting that the Labor Government will be returned to office with a majority of seven seats!!


Title: Re: The ELECTION Thread
Post by: HellWest'nCrooked on August 18, 2010, 10:46:36 PM


   Birdie........the old hutt River Provence....wonder if they still make their own stamps.......I want one, it might be a collectors item one day!!
Title: Re: The ELECTION Thread
Post by: mandurahmum on August 18, 2010, 10:53:14 PM
Julia come over to WA today - her third visit.

Apparently this is the most visits we have ever had in an election period from a Prime Minister/Leader of the Opposition. (except Kim Beasley - but as he lived here - I dont think it really counts).

Thats just not right





Title: Re: The ELECTION Thread
Post by: elantra on August 19, 2010, 12:25:01 AM
Julia come over to WA today - her third visit.

Apparently this is the most visits we have ever had in an election period from a Prime Minister/Leader of the Opposition. (except Kim Beasley - but as he lived here - I dont think it really counts).

Thats just not right






She thinks highly of the good people from Western Australia.
Title: Re: The ELECTION Thread
Post by: elantra on August 19, 2010, 12:25:50 AM
Wednesday night 10pm.

I am predicting that the Labor Government will be returned to office with a majority of seven seats!!



Title: Re: The ELECTION Thread
Post by: Poddy on August 19, 2010, 12:42:42 AM
I'll supply the salt and pepper Ela :)
Title: Re: The ELECTION Thread
Post by: Poddy on August 19, 2010, 12:46:20 AM
Hmm.. I have to find you a shortened nickname

Ela?
Elan?
El-ant?
Ant?
Nope none of those sound right.

What about .................

Trala hmmm that has a bit if a ring to it:)
Title: Re: The ELECTION Thread
Post by: elantra on August 19, 2010, 10:20:46 AM
Hmm.. I have to find you a shortened nickname

Ela?
Elan?
El-ant?
Ant?
Nope none of those sound right.

What about .................

Trala hmmm that has a bit if a ring to it:)

  :funaward:
Title: Re: The ELECTION Thread
Post by: Poddy on August 19, 2010, 02:12:55 PM
And to give it some OMMPH what about incuding a couple of !!

i.e. Trala!!  :)
Title: Re: The ELECTION Thread
Post by: bnwt on August 19, 2010, 02:55:01 PM
The day Gillard stopped spinning: NSW indefensible

http://www.smh.com.au/federal-election/the-day-gillard-stopped-spinning-nsw-indefensible-20100819-12mor.html


the NSW labor government has been run for years by the same faceless men that now run labor federally
Title: Re: The ELECTION Thread
Post by: elantra on August 19, 2010, 04:54:44 PM
The day Gillard stopped spinning: NSW indefensible

http://www.smh.com.au/federal-election/the-day-gillard-stopped-spinning-nsw-indefensible-20100819-12mor.html


the NSW labor government has been run for years by the same faceless men that now run labor federally

I am predicting that the Labor Government will be returned to office with a majority of seven seats!!
[/color]
Title: Re: The ELECTION Thread
Post by: mandurahmum on August 19, 2010, 05:14:54 PM
I dont know how the election will go - but I do predict that the Labor government will pick up a lot more votes in WA - mainly because of a backlash against our stupid dick Liberal Premier.

If the city I lived in was not split into 2 electorates then Labor would probably win.  Our city should not be divided into 2 electorates - it is stupid when we have the numbers to have our own electorate.  So we have have the city looked after by a Rockingham member and the other half by a member in Perth.

If it was one electorate then the Labor member would get in with a huge majority.  She was a state member who gave us what we had been promised for over 30 years - a trainline to Perth.  We love her down here - and we love the train. 
Title: Re: The ELECTION Thread
Post by: mandurahmum on August 19, 2010, 08:54:13 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dV-inAzEleE (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dV-inAzEleE)

could not have said it better myself - gotta love the chasers
Title: Re: The ELECTION Thread
Post by: *Ubbie Max* on August 19, 2010, 10:36:49 PM
Your government at work………

 
You will love this one, I haven't stop laughing yet………….

For those of you who have never travelled to the west, , cattle guards are horizontal steel rails placed at fence openings, in dug-out places in the roads adjacent to highways (sometimes across highways), to prevent cattle from crossing over that area. For some reason the cattle will not step on the "guards," probably because they fear getting their feet caught between the rails.

A few months ago, Kevin Rudd received and was reading a report that there were over 10,000 cattle guards in NSW & Queensland. Graziers had protested his proposed changes in grazing policies, so he ordered the Minister to fire half of the “cattle” guards immediately!!

Before the Minister could respond and presumably try to straighten him out, Minister for Employment Julia Gillard, intervened with a request that…. before any “cattle” guards were fired, they be given six months of retraining.

And they are running our country


[attachment deleted by admin]
Title: Re: The ELECTION Thread
Post by: *r3830* on August 20, 2010, 08:06:25 AM
Cost of Labor's online health scheme a mystery


And the department is also demanding further information on Labor's proposed sale of radio spectrum as the government heads to tomorrow's poll with several promises that have not been independently costed. The government is running late with the submission of several policies, with six worth a total of $233 million filed yesterday, six days after the deadline had passed.

Goodness! Even r3830 made a comment on this one!

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/national-affairs/cost-of-labors-online-health-scheme-a-mystery/story-fn59niix-1225907517355 (http://www.theaustralian.com.au/national-affairs/cost-of-labors-online-health-scheme-a-mystery/story-fn59niix-1225907517355)


Julia Gillard: My carbon price promise

In an election-eve interview with The Australian, the Prime Minister revealed she would view victory tomorrow as a mandate* for a carbon price, provided the community was ready for this step.

"I don't rule out the possibility of legislating a Carbon Pollution Reduction Scheme, a market-based mechanism," she said of the next parliament. "I rule out a carbon tax."

*Note the word MANDATE! Very important! (the power granted by an electorate)

Read more: http://www.news.com.au/features/federal-election/julia-gillard-my-carbon-price-promise/story-fn5tar6a-1225907552000#ixzz0x5l85RYV
Title: Re: The ELECTION Thread
Post by: bnwt on August 20, 2010, 08:08:35 AM
(http://i289.photobucket.com/albums/ll208/bouddiebay/Screenshot2010-08-20at80640AM.png)
Title: Re: The ELECTION Thread
Post by: *r3830* on August 20, 2010, 08:19:59 AM
Homes to pay heavy price for internet from NBN ("It will be quite reasonable".) Gillard

Projections for the take-up of the government's $43 billion NBN could prove optimistic once households realise they face costs of up to $3000 to fully exploit the potential of the super-fast internet.

But, at least it will be available in 8 YEARS!


http://www.theaustralian.com.au/national-affairs/homes-to-pay-heavy-price-for-internet-from-nbn/story-fn59niix-1225907517167 (http://www.theaustralian.com.au/national-affairs/homes-to-pay-heavy-price-for-internet-from-nbn/story-fn59niix-1225907517167)
Title: Re: The ELECTION Thread
Post by: *r3830* on August 20, 2010, 09:29:09 AM
There is a REAL RISK that Julia Gillard could be elected Prime Minister on Saturday!

Yes.... I know this is a misquote of Ms Gillard's statement made regarding Abbott - But it is a fact!

And when she wins..... ALL should expect:

Increases in electricity costs due to the forthcoming Carbon Tax... mind you - Ms Gillard did say that she has an avoidance clause if needed... so NO guarantee for those people who do support an ETS.

The appropriate flow-on costs on groceries and other goods - including fuel and gas

An NBN - that simply will not perform due to bandwidth limitations.... and the introduction of Internet Censorship.... including the formation of a government database that will monitor and record user accesses to all websites. Did I mention that the same will slow the net speed to a crawl?

The revelations of Labor's 35 UNCOSTED promises ..... Seems odd that they targeted the Libs with this accusation???

When told this morning by a voter in the seat of Robertson (Gosford) that it was his intention to vote GREEN.... Gillard's response was that there were only 2 parties to choose from.... Labor and Liberal. So much for the Labor agreements made with the Greens! Were you watching Bob?????



So much for being positive. She was asked by journos if she was cranky this morning! All she can raise seems to be negativity and Workchoices threats.

Should be a wonderful day. Having worked all night - I'm off to bed for a short while. A good one to all.

Title: Re: The ELECTION Thread
Post by: bnwt on August 20, 2010, 11:16:42 AM
Julia Gillard has been campaigning in the seat of Bennelong with local Labor candidate Maxine. We are not sure what this was about yet- but here is Ms McKew releasing a dove,

 
(http://i289.photobucket.com/albums/ll208/bouddiebay/Screenshot2010-08-20at111510AM.png)

JG and Maxine release doves as a man cries out 'you're a backstabber Julia.'
Title: Re: The ELECTION Thread
Post by: bnwt on August 20, 2010, 11:24:15 AM
Punters in last-minute plunge on Coalition


http://www.smh.com.au/federal-election/punters-in-lastminute-plunge-on-coalition-20100820-12wod.html
Title: Re: The ELECTION Thread
Post by: bnwt on August 20, 2010, 11:26:44 AM
Labor candidate contradicts PM on carbon tax


http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2010/08/20/2988458.htm

I had a feeling Solomon would go back to the blue side
Title: Re: The ELECTION Thread
Post by: bnwt on August 20, 2010, 11:42:20 AM
Angry Anderson is fed up with Labor


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VSO7fDyeKUE

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W1jzq95lHAA&NR=1
Title: Re: The ELECTION Thread
Post by: *r3830* on August 20, 2010, 12:16:36 PM
Oh Dear! (thanks again bnwt!)

"Well, I really think that we need to make sure that getting a carbon tax in place is a priority of a government that's re-elected on Saturday," he said.

"If Tony Abbott is prime minister that won't happen."


Many thanks to the member for Darwin in his accurate supporting of my earlier comment!

The Carbon tax is DEAD, BURIED and CREMATED! But we can't guarantee every possibility regarding future Carbon Taxes!

What goes around..... comes back to bite one on the bum!!!
Title: Re: The ELECTION Thread
Post by: *r3830* on August 20, 2010, 03:52:01 PM
This may be of serious interest to all of you good people in WA. It certainly contradicts the "offshore processing" stories of the ALP.

Secret detention center plans

The Two Murrays with Howard Sattler who has obtained a "secret" plan to massively boost the capacity of Curtin detention centre, and says it means the PM Gillard isn't committed to offshore processing.


In a nutshell.... the Curtin Detention Centre is undergoing an upgrade, from the present 200 people - to nearing 3000 bed places.



http://www.2ue.com.au/blogs/2ue-blog/secret-detention-center-plans/20100818-12f2u.html (http://www.2ue.com.au/blogs/2ue-blog/secret-detention-center-plans/20100818-12f2u.html)

Please note: It is  RADIO story.

Title: Re: The ELECTION Thread
Post by: *smee* on August 20, 2010, 08:08:26 PM
spot the difference

(http://i51.photobucket.com/albums/f398/mrswoody/wodywoodpecker.gif)(http://i35.photobucket.com/albums/d165/zybch/julia_gillard_90193871.jpg)


here is some for starters

1. Woody only waves one hand around when talking
2. Woody smiles
3. Woody has a smaller beak
4. Everyone one knows Woody is a fake character
5. Woody has never stabbed one of his colleagues in the back
Title: Re: The ELECTION Thread
Post by: *r3830* on August 20, 2010, 08:11:53 PM
Is that the REAL Woody smee????
Title: Re: The ELECTION Thread
Post by: Poddy on August 20, 2010, 08:12:02 PM
Woody is a Pecker
The other has a pecker envy ;)
Title: Re: The ELECTION Thread
Post by: elantra on August 20, 2010, 09:34:00 PM
Spot the difference.
(http://i208.photobucket.com/albums/bb22/interest88/brownsnake.jpg)(http://i208.photobucket.com/albums/bb22/interest88/tony_abbott_.jpg)

One has ears sticking out the side of its head.
Title: Re: The ELECTION Thread
Post by: *r3830* on August 20, 2010, 09:38:15 PM
EASY! Julia Gillard to the left!  ;D
Title: Re: The ELECTION Thread
Post by: *smee* on August 20, 2010, 09:40:33 PM
the one one the right with the ears will be prime minister within 24 hours ?
Title: Re: The ELECTION Thread
Post by: Poddy on August 20, 2010, 09:45:31 PM
OH !!! Dear !!

Trala !!! you kind of walked into that one LOL
Title: Re: The ELECTION Thread
Post by: *r3830* on August 20, 2010, 09:52:33 PM
Bugga! I was wrong! I thought it was a rattlesnake! Damn.... it's only a whip!
Title: Re: The ELECTION Thread
Post by: elantra on August 20, 2010, 09:53:33 PM
OH !!! Dear !!

Trala !!! you kind of walked into that one LOL

 :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:
Title: Re: The ELECTION Thread
Post by: mandurahmum on August 20, 2010, 10:04:14 PM
Spot the difference.
(http://i208.photobucket.com/albums/bb22/interest88/brownsnake.jpg)(http://i208.photobucket.com/albums/bb22/interest88/tony_abbott_.jpg)

One has ears sticking out the side of its head.

 :rofl: :rofl:
Title: Re: The ELECTION Thread
Post by: *Brum6y* on August 21, 2010, 01:35:51 AM
Well, I think the Woody effort was more creative, unlike the snake.
Title: Re: The ELECTION Thread
Post by: *Brum6y* on August 21, 2010, 01:43:43 AM
... and speaking of bringing foreign material into an Australian political discussion... that snake picture is featured on the University of Massachusetts Amherst (http://www.umass.edu/nrec/snake_pit/pages/brown.html) website.
Title: Re: The ELECTION Thread
Post by: bnwt on August 21, 2010, 06:47:46 AM
Anna Bligh says if Labor loses it's really all Kevin Rudd's fault


http://www.couriermail.com.au/news/national/anna-bligh-says-if-labor-loses-its-really-all-kevin-rudds-fault/story-fn5z3z83-1225907969593
Title: Re: The ELECTION Thread
Post by: bnwt on August 21, 2010, 08:02:09 AM
Julia derailed by city rail link


http://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/election/julia-derailed-by-city-rail-link/story-fn5zm695-1225907970833

One Labor source called the announcement a major mistake saying it "reminded all of western Sydney of one of the biggest failures of Labor".

no that's not true, it did not remind all of western Sydney ....... it reminded the whole of NSW
Title: Re: The ELECTION Thread
Post by: *r3830* on August 21, 2010, 09:13:12 AM
A train line between Epping and Parramatta??? Was a great idea - about twenty years ago. The same route is currently covered by a dozen bus services. The people of the North West - and South West have a much more serious need. Goodness knows, in very recent times a judge dismissed a drink driving charge against a woman because of the absence of public transport to one of these areas.

But.... the idea was an off the cuff one by Ms Gillard wasn't it? I wonder if it made the Labor self imposed costing deadline of last Wednesday? Seems that 35 others didn't.

Let me see.... might need some help here Countess.... how does one spell H Y P O C R I T E S? Is that correct????
Title: Re: The ELECTION Thread
Post by: *r3830* on August 21, 2010, 09:17:33 AM
Oh.... and BLARDY HELL! My daughter still wants her computer that was promised to her by Labor in 2007. She is worried whether Windows 95 on a Pentium 166 platform will still be compatible today. Kids! Who'd havem!
Title: Re: The ELECTION Thread
Post by: *r3830* on August 21, 2010, 10:26:48 AM
NBN could cost households 'an extra $3000'

THE electrical industry has contradicted Julia Gillard over the costs of connecting to the National Broadband Network.

It has argued that some households could pay up to $3000 in rewiring costs to take full advantage of the superfast internet service.



GAWWWWWD Julia! I think you've misled the community ..... again. Just goes to show that Tony Abbott is not the only person technically limited... doesn't it! Although... he was quick to point that out to the community! Better be getting on the phone to Swanny quick smart! It's a funny feeling when you put the boot on the other foot.... is it not!

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/national-affairs/nbn-could-cost-households-an-extra-3000/story-fn59niix-1225908005122 (http://www.theaustralian.com.au/national-affairs/nbn-could-cost-households-an-extra-3000/story-fn59niix-1225908005122)
Title: Re: The ELECTION Thread
Post by: *r3830* on August 21, 2010, 10:32:47 AM
Anna Bligh says if Labor loses it's really all Kevin Rudd's fault

ANNA Bligh has insisted it was Kevin Rudd and not her that had a toxic impact on federal Labor's vote in Queensland.

The Courier-Mail has learnt the Premier told her Caucus colleagues this week her own rampant unpopularity had nothing to do with federal Labor's woes.


It appears that even Anna dearest is voting with the Libs.... and encouraging other Queenslanders to do the same! As one comment put it.... "The Stabbing" Part 2. (should be a bestseller!)

http://www.couriermail.com.au/news/national/anna-bligh-says-if-labor-loses-its-really-all-kevin-rudds-fault/comments-fn5z3z83-1225907969593 (http://www.couriermail.com.au/news/national/anna-bligh-says-if-labor-loses-its-really-all-kevin-rudds-fault/comments-fn5z3z83-1225907969593)


EDIT: Apologies bnwt, I should have known that you'd be on the job. Looks like I've made a Gillard of myself... or would that be a Gillardism perhaps?
Title: Re: The ELECTION Thread
Post by: *CountessA* on August 21, 2010, 01:49:30 PM
It seems so far that the predictions that this will be a knife-edge election are true.

The closest Federal election in 50 years? It's too much for me. I can feel my teeth grinding with anxiety.

As I mentioned earlier, I'm a swing voter. THIS election, though, presented me with none of the usual humming and hawing and changing my mind which usually accompanies my thoughts on voting. I sympathise with a lot of the Labor issues and policies, but not with other Labor issues and policies. I am still incredulous that anyone would be voting for the Greens, considering the cogent issue of failure to permit back-burning which was so strongly contributory to the horrific loss of life in the Black Saturday fires. (But I respect the right of anyone to vote as they wish... This is, after all, our democratic right.)

I have voted this morning before going in to work.
Title: Re: The ELECTION Thread
Post by: *CountessA* on August 21, 2010, 02:00:17 PM
Tony Abbott is not known for his good interviews: however, the ACA interview on election eve with Abbott was (I thought) surprisingly good. In my opinion, Ms Grimshaw hammered at the Abbott-and-women thing for far too long. It would have been good to hear some more cogent and interesting questions... but Abbott did respond both carefully and with his own character showing through. (That hasn't always been the case in the campaign, though - or so I believe.)

I think this is what has been missing for me in a lot of the campaign (from all sides): genuine personality and character shining through with all its quirks and mistakes and visions and glories. People being careful and holding back in an effort to project a plastic everyman (or everywoman) does NOT impress me. I prefer an honest person showing me personality traits I can honestly dislike than a person showing me a prefabricated nothingness. I can respect and dislike a person at the same time, but a nothing-person earns no respect AND no liking. I can vote for someone I dislike as long as I respect him/her; I can't vote for someone I cannot respect.
Title: Re: The ELECTION Thread
Post by: *wheels* on August 21, 2010, 02:25:53 PM
I've just received this youtube link in an email. Very funny!  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RQ_s6V1Kv6A&

I don't have any speakers on this PC so if the sound is offensive please let me know and I'll delete this post.
Title: Re: The ELECTION Thread
Post by: *r3830* on August 21, 2010, 02:26:32 PM
I've just returned from voting. It is a strange election this time around, where normally, we walk in, vote and leave. Today was a line of around thirty meters.

Gut impression is that the LIBS are doing very well in the seat of Lindsay!
Title: Re: The ELECTION Thread
Post by: bnwt on August 21, 2010, 03:27:47 PM
same for me ............. normally I just walk straight in and vote but there was a line of about 40 people

I went off and did some shopping and came back an hour later when there were only about 10 people in the line

I didn't see anyone with labor how to vote cards in their hands
Title: Re: The ELECTION Thread
Post by: bnwt on August 21, 2010, 03:29:04 PM
Rudd avoids insulation victim's family


http://www.theaustralian.com.au/news/breaking-news/rudd-avoids-insulation-victims-family/story-fn3dxity-1225908159317



GUTLESS
Title: Re: The ELECTION Thread
Post by: *r3830* on August 21, 2010, 04:10:47 PM
Gutless.... Agreed. Would it have been such a terrible thing for him to have offered some kindness to that family? It would have only really been a token gesture anyhow.... but could have, perhaps, provided them with just a touch of closure. Very sad.
Title: Re: The ELECTION Thread
Post by: callostemma on August 21, 2010, 05:09:33 PM
Information has just been made public about something every australian should be aware of
Gonorrhea   Lectim
This is pronounced  "Gonna re-elect   em"
The Centre for Disease control has issued a warning about the new virulent strain of this old disease, although most people after being infected for the last 2-3 years are realizing how destructive this sickness is.
It is easily cured by a new procedure  coming on the market now ,called  Vo  tem  out
If persons take their first dose and don't  engage in past behaviour again,  it will not become permanent and eventually wipe out life as we know it.
Title: Re: The ELECTION Thread
Post by: bnwt on August 21, 2010, 05:28:17 PM
Robertson candidate Deborah O'Neill confident of Labor win


http://www.theaustralian.com.au/news/breaking-news/robertson-candidate-deborah-oneill-confident-of-labor-win/story-fn3dxity-1225908195232
Title: Re: The ELECTION Thread
Post by: mandurahmum on August 21, 2010, 05:50:54 PM
I have not voted yet - still got 2 hours and ten minutes till they close - and the winner will probably be known before then
Title: Re: The ELECTION Thread
Post by: mandurahmum on August 21, 2010, 05:55:21 PM
Rudd avoids insulation victim's family


http://www.theaustralian.com.au/news/breaking-news/rudd-avoids-insulation-victims-family/story-fn3dxity-1225908159317



GUTLESS

I would have avoided them too - they were there to protest.  He did not kill Matthew - he was killed because his employer did not train him properly or those guidelines were not followed.

Why not blame the premier of the state he worked in - they did not ban foil insulation - it was banned here long ago.  It has also been dangerous.

My son works in the housing industry - if something happened to him - can I blame the government because the house is probably being built under a new home bonus scheme.  

Of course not

Title: Re: The ELECTION Thread
Post by: *Brum6y* on August 21, 2010, 06:02:48 PM
Well.... Polling booths have now closed for the eastern states - and in 2 hours, they will be in the west.
Title: Re: The ELECTION Thread
Post by: *Brum6y* on August 21, 2010, 06:10:53 PM
I went to my closest polling booth - at my old primary school - parked the car and got out. I looked across to the buildings and saw a queue stretch out the door, along the verandah, down the steps and up the quadrangle.

I got back in the car.

I then drove 1km to the polling booth I used to go to when I was at my previous address. It's in a large room of a fitness club located in another electorate but since it's so close to the boundary, they have a table for the one I'm in.  I parked one car away from the door and had one person in front of me for marking off the roll. I was out of my car for less than three minutes.
Title: Re: The ELECTION Thread
Post by: mandurahmum on August 21, 2010, 06:19:03 PM
We have two that are both just up the road.  One at the school - which is normally busy and one at a church - I go to the church one.  at least then I can tell my grandma that I went to church.  lol
Title: Re: The ELECTION Thread
Post by: *r3830* on August 21, 2010, 06:30:13 PM
I would have avoided them too - they were there to protest.

As I recall, Mr Rudd was the Prime Minister who stated  - "The Buck Stops With Me". There is a serious issue here - did he not speak with this family after the loss of their son? Honest question.... I don't know the answer.

He did not kill Matthew

No argument there at all..... of course he didn't - but his government was responsible for driving the program in the first place. Were the young man killed someone who was indirectly working for you.... would you close your eyes and hope it went away?

I'll let you in on a little secret mum..... I actually wrote to Kevin Rudd when he again made his email address available. (it was offline for quite some time) There were different policies that I certainly DID NOT agree with.... but I did genuinely like the man. I don't believe that there would be anyone, who actually watched his final speech from parliament house who would not have been moved by his compassion for the people that he spoke of - just as he bought such an interest to politics for soooo many people back in 2007.

Personally, I do not believe that the present Labor Party should continue to govern, after the way Mr Rudd was treated. Who's next to face the blade do you think? As I've mentioned earlier, I believe that the powerbrokers placed Ms Gillard in the hot seat in order to maximise populist opinion in the female part of the electorate. In doing so - they've exploited femininity disgracefully. Evidence of this? Well, let's start with an absolute minimal time for an election campaign to capitalise on the height of the wave.

Given the events of today, and the treatment of that family - perhaps I was wrong about his compassion. The meeting would have been taped most certainly - and I, for one, would have most certainly been impressed in seeing him address this particular concern. To have done so would probably seen as one of the most positive events of the present campaign.
Title: Re: The ELECTION Thread
Post by: *Brum6y* on August 21, 2010, 06:34:06 PM
The AEC's "Virtual Tally Room" is starting to show some results.

As at 6:28:59 PM there were 9,157 votes counted.

Hmm... still have a ways to go - there are just over 14,000,000 registered voters.
Title: Re: The ELECTION Thread
Post by: mandurahmum on August 21, 2010, 06:36:09 PM
I think he avoided them because they were not going to listen to him anyway.  They were not there for an apology - they were there to protest.  
Title: Re: The ELECTION Thread
Post by: *smee* on August 21, 2010, 07:22:31 PM
who would like the first slice , I know who should be queuing up

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v733/drcmrbeef/humble_pie.jpg)
Title: Re: The ELECTION Thread
Post by: *Brum6y* on August 21, 2010, 07:30:01 PM
There was a knife around somewhere .... anybody see where it went?
Title: Re: The ELECTION Thread
Post by: *Brum6y* on August 21, 2010, 07:32:17 PM
Oh......  Sorry Kev.
Title: Re: The ELECTION Thread
Post by: *r3830* on August 21, 2010, 09:26:16 PM
Hey Mum! I thought you said that this would be all over before the count came to WA????
Title: Re: The ELECTION Thread
Post by: *FluffyDuckee* on August 21, 2010, 09:37:58 PM
I voted at 8.30 am at the local high school.  I also was surprised by the long line of people waiting to vote snaking down the corridoor.

I, being a swinging voter, like Tessa, are usually a bit dithery about which way to vote.  This time, I had no problem......
Title: Re: The ELECTION Thread
Post by: mandurahmum on August 21, 2010, 10:37:21 PM
Hey Mum! I thought you said that this would be all over before the count came to WA????

Please dont tell anyone - but I have been wrong before
Title: Re: The ELECTION Thread
Post by: *smee* on August 31, 2010, 05:13:40 PM
This was Kevins other punishment prior to the knife in the back



[attachment deleted by admin]
Title: Re: The ELECTION Thread
Post by: *smee* on September 04, 2010, 02:49:23 AM
ok since certain people werent happy with the comparision with Woody Woodpecker , here is another look alike

(http://i196.photobucket.com/albums/aa286/masteryoda112/thumbsup.jpg)(http://i291.photobucket.com/albums/ll299/nakedphilologist/gillard.jpg)
Title: Re: The ELECTION Thread
Post by: *Brum6y* on September 04, 2010, 03:32:38 PM
Didn't they both go to the same Finishing School...?
Title: Re: The ELECTION Thread
Post by: *r3830* on September 04, 2010, 11:40:38 PM
Most concerning! This could well be where this country will be heading in coming years!

Food price fear over Russia wheat ban

The rising prices around the world have raised concerns about a return to the political instability in 2008.

Haiti, Kenya and Somalia were among countries which saw rioting over the cost of living.

http://www.skynews.com.au/business/article.aspx?id=509061&articleID=1737421 (http://www.skynews.com.au/business/article.aspx?id=509061&articleID=1737421)
Title: Re: The ELECTION Thread
Post by: callostemma on September 05, 2010, 08:46:16 AM
We should be planting wheat,  barley,  rye in the riverland where all the grapes and fruit trees have been pulled
Title: Re: The ELECTION Thread
Post by: golden on September 05, 2010, 07:01:59 PM
We should be planting wheat,  barley,  rye in the riverland where all the grapes and fruit trees have been pulled

Couldn't agree more Callo, we will talk about it when Smee picks me up on the way to Westies.. ;)

Keep the genetically modified crap out of it and lets stand up and take advantage of this "food shortage" opportunity in front of us.  All we want as farmers is to get our "clean, green, fresh, pure" food out there into a vibrant market.

25 years ago I lived in Finland.  A steak on a plate in a bistro was worth more than a days wages..  get ready Australia.. this is where we are heading.
Title: Re: The ELECTION Thread
Post by: Poddy on September 05, 2010, 07:18:54 PM
I am sure that there are VAST areas of Australia that could and should be irrigated, it would give a lot of people jobs and make the land fertile giving more people oppertunities.

Put the money into that project instead of the NBN.
Title: Re: The ELECTION Thread
Post by: golden on September 05, 2010, 07:24:22 PM
I am sure that there are VAST areas of Australia that could and should be irrigated, it would give a lot of people jobs and make the land fertile giving more people oppertunities.

Put the money into that project instead of the NBN.

Unfortunately Poddy, the boy loving boys, in Melbourne voted for the billions to be spent on a North/South pipeline, and ripping water out of the Goulbourn Valley...  Get some balls farmers and sell them nothing for 12 months...  put our produce on the side of the road and let people know you are welcome to come buy from us if you r new Toyota Prius will make it that far on the coal sucking you did...
Title: Re: The ELECTION Thread
Post by: *Ubbie Max* on September 05, 2010, 07:27:42 PM
Good onya Golden. I nominate Golden for Pm.
Title: Re: The ELECTION Thread
Post by: Poddy on September 05, 2010, 07:34:47 PM
You know, we are going to have to watch all the private members' bills if the worst happens, next thing you know 'boys loving boys' may become compulsory. they may try to slip that 'in the back door'.
Title: Re: The ELECTION Thread
Post by: *smee* on September 05, 2010, 07:38:22 PM
now that will leave a big black hole in the budget
Title: Re: The ELECTION Thread
Post by: wyzeguy60 on September 05, 2010, 08:41:15 PM
now that will leave a big back hole in the budget

 ;D