eBay's Christmas Wishlist

[*wheels*]

The promo for eBay's Christmas Wishlist:

Joy to the World

Get exactly what you want

With the eBay Wish List


Joy to the World??

Sorry eBay, when I learned the words of 'Joy to the World' I don't remember anything about setting up a Christmas list to make sure I got the right presents.

Maybe 'Gimme Gimme Gimme' would have been a better lyric to use.

[tellomon]

eGrinch!

[Centuries]

Joy to the world, the Lord is come!
Let earth receive her King;
Let every heart prepare Him room,
And Heaven and nature sing,
And Heaven and nature sing,
And Heaven, and Heaven, and nature sing.

Joy to the world, the Savior reigns!
Let men their songs employ;
While fields and floods, rocks, hills and plains
Repeat the sounding joy,
Repeat the sounding joy,
Repeat, repeat, the sounding joy.

No more let sins and sorrows grow,
Nor thorns infest the ground;
He comes to make His blessings flow
Far as the curse is found,
Far as the curse is found,
Far as, far as, the curse is found.

He rules the world with truth and grace,
And makes the nations prove
The glories of His righteousness,
And wonders of His love,
And wonders of His love,
And wonders, wonders, of His love.



No! Nothing about setting up a Christmas "I want presents" list .   

[*r3830*]

Joy to the world,
All the boys and girle yeah,
Joy to the fishes in the deep blue sea,
Joy to you and me.

[*CountessA*]

Oh! You better send quick
You better send free
You better bootlick
I’ll tell you why, see –

Santa eBay’s playing its game!

The platinum list
Is done in a trice
It’s nothing to do
With who’s naughty or nice

Santa eBay’s playing its game.

So list while you are sleeping
No matter if it’s fake
It won’t care if you’re bad or good
Just go list – for eBay’s sake!

So… You better send quick
You better send free
You better bootlick
I’ll tell you why, see –

Santa eBay’s playing its game.

Blowing your horn
Flooding results
Multiple BINs
To grow like weird cults

Santa eBay’s playing its game.

Sellers whose funds
Are randomly held
Think of PayPal as
“Sad Bart” (misspelled)

Santa eBay’s playing its game.

The blank-faced corporations
Will pay a lower fee
They’re gonna build a Buy-Now town
All around the eBay tree

Oh! You better send quick
You better send free
You better bootlick
I’ll tell you why, see –

Santa eBay’s playin’
Santa eBay’s playin’
Santa eBay’s playin’
Its game.

[gr8-expectations]

today i received a payment reminder (a new first for ebay and close to xmas lol) for an item I only won yesterday..... this is a new thing, i am paying the guy by bank on monday but what right do they have to chase up debts early especially if they are only a venue and especially when they have such small concern for the general wellbeing of their buyers and sellers, prolly (silly sceptical me) another prompt to have their buyers rushing off to the preypal button rather than waiting (which can be a while) to receive the sellers bank details and pay them directly without preypal fee and a wait of 3-5 days to get the money transferred to their bank if paid by p/pal less a $1.00 fee if it is less than $150 or so....

i must be so sceptical....

[gr8-expectations]

rather than waiting (which can be a while) to receive the sellers bank details and pay them directly without preypal fee


which can be a while BECAUSE the poor sellers bank details are so well hidden (or more often non existent) on checkout and obscured by massive huge type preypal promos....

[gr8-expectations]

my xmas wish for ebay?


a visit from a real accc not a toothless tiger, followed closely by asic to discuss real decpetive and misleading conduct, and to force them to provide real phone support given the "time of the essence mechancis of an auction site in real time and serious consumer $ involved, and finally, the tax man.... to claim all the gst they have got away without paying for all these years in australia

[tellomon]

Oh! You better send quick
You better send free
You better bootlick
I’ll tell you why, see –

Santa eBay’s playing its game!

Non-Copyrighted Material.
Under the Code of "Public Domain".

Pls consider it STOLEN.

[*CountessA*]

Borrowed, not stolen. Quote at will, and I won't even charge any commission...!

[tellomon]

Sweet!

So you won't break my hands, right?

[*smee*]

Borrowed, not stolen. Quote at will, and I won't even charge any commission...!

Sweet!

So you won't break my hands, right?

DID YOU GIVE THE ORDER ? !!!

[*CountessA*]

No, I'd never do that to a drummer.

[*barny*]

my xmas wish for ebay?


a visit from a real accc not a toothless tiger, followed closely by asic to discuss real decpetive and misleading conduct, and to force them to provide real phone support given the "time of the essence mechancis of an auction site in real time and serious consumer $ involved, and finally, the tax man.... to claim all the gst they have got away without paying for all these years in australia

Hi GR8,

While I agree with your sentiments, I do know that eBay have been the subject of a tax investigation, and that the result was a confirmation that according to Australian law, eBay is paying all the tax it has to.

cheers

[*Yibida*]

38" 24" 34"....  :green: { gift wrapped in lace }

[Bellagina]

I wish ebay would scrap BEST match for Christmas (who can we get the most $ from match more like it)

[Liisa-Sx]

today i received a payment reminder (a new first for ebay and close to xmas lol) for an item I only won yesterday..... this is a new thing, i am paying the guy by bank on monday but what right do they have to chase up debts early especially if they are only a venue and especially when they have such small concern for the general wellbeing of their buyers and sellers, prolly (silly sceptical me) another prompt to have their buyers rushing off to the preypal button rather than waiting (which can be a while) to receive the sellers bank details and pay them directly without preypal fee and a wait of 3-5 days to get the money transferred to their bank if paid by p/pal less a $1.00 fee if it is less than $150 or so....

i must be so sceptical....

Especially when it says this in the Ebay Tos Gr8 lol

here it is in black and..yellow LOL

http://pages.ebay.com.au/help/policies/user-agreement.html also set out below.. not only that but they SHOUT it at us  

eBay is not an Auctioneer.

3.1 Online Auctions. Although we are commonly referred to as an online auction web site, it is important to realise that we are not a traditional "auctioneer". Instead, our Site merely acts as an online venue to allow members to communicate and offer, sell, and buy just about anything, at anytime, from anywhere, in a variety of formats, including a fixed price format and an auction-style format commonly referred to as an "online auction". YOU ACKNOWLEDGE AND AGREE THAT EBAY IS NOT INVOLVED IN THE ACTUAL TRANSACTION BETWEEN BUYERS AND SELLERS. AS A RESULT, EBAY HAS NO CONTROL OVER THE QUALITY, SAFETY OR LEGALITY OF ITEMS OR CONTENT POSTED BY MEMBERS ON OUR SITE, THE TRUTH OR ACCURACY OF LISTINGS, THE ABILITY OF SELLERS TO SELL ITEMS OR THE ABILITY OF BUYERS TO BUY ITEMS. WE CANNOT ENSURE AND DO NOT GUARANTEE THAT A MEMBER OR BROWSER OF OUR SITE WILL ACTUALLY COMPLETE A TRANSACTION OR ACT LAWFULLY IN USING OUR SITE.

Imho the mere fact that Ebay now deliberately interfere in the communication between buyers and sellers by sending unwanted and ill conceived messages that they are in fact in violation of their own ToS.

If I report them will they be de registered??? 

[gr8-expectations]

they will immediately be de-registered liisa .......


lol like thats going to happen, our appropriate government departments and statutory bodies are more interested in beating up the little guy than fixing the big picture, sad really good link - so right they are in breach of their own tos, what are they now debt collectors for sellers?

[gr8-expectations]

my xmas wish for ebay?


a visit from a real accc not a toothless tiger, followed closely by asic to discuss real decpetive and misleading conduct, and to force them to provide real phone support given the "time of the essence mechancis of an auction site in real time and serious consumer $ involved, and finally, the tax man.... to claim all the gst they have got away without paying for all these years in australia

Hi GR8,

While I agree with your sentiments, I do know that eBay have been the subject of a tax investigation, and that the result was a confirmation that according to Australian law, eBay is paying all the tax it has to.

cheers

brickie, PLEASE dont ruin a good conspiracy theory with facts.... lol



ps how did they get through that investigation? maybe it relates to shyers points re the fact that there are so many different countries and legislations being dealt with in online sales or maybe they have found a really good loophole in the law which isnt yet fixed and is unlikely to be, they love grey areas, its their specialty (another good conspiracy theory, now leave ut alone lol)

[*r3830*]

Just curious..... and certainly not a specialist in this area...... but isn't this 'reminder thing' a very recent development? Wouldn't it have avoided the investigation that took place prior?

Where's Cupie! She knows these things well!

[gr8-expectations]

r-numeric have a look at one of the recent links posted on bnwt's thread re this, if you mean the payment reminder system, sellers are not happy read all about ut on bnwt's useful thread links



over and out....



ps cupie knows nuthin lol

[gr8-expectations]

here ya go numeric, don say i don give ya nuthin..... (actually bnwt gave it to moi)


http://blog.auctionbytes.com/cgi-bin/blog/blog.pl?/comments/2009/11/1258084348.html

[*r3830*]

Many thanks for that Gr8. For a short moment there I thought I'd OD'd on my morning Insulin.

Really speaking - there are sooooo many instances of non-paying bidders happening - all over the place. But then - (as a venue) If you give somebody a book... should you have the control to dictate what is written it?


An interesting comment from a poster under the article....

When a buyer doesn't pay it could be they lost their job, fell on hard times or just a dead beat bidder. Whatever the reason the person the money is owed to should decide how to handle it.

If ebay is going to take over this aspect of your business too they should protect you.

Give the buyer a reasonable time to pay. If they don't and ebay has to send an automatic payment reminder then also automatically disqualify the buyer from leaving any type of feedback or DSR ratings.

Otherwise the payment reminders will just increase bad retaliatory feedback and low DSR ratings.

[cueperkins]

Hi Loco...(up yours 'T')

It is a new thing and no, it wouldn't have had any association with the ACCC Exclusive Dealing period even if it were around at the time....it's got nothing to do with that.

It does seem to be a conflict of interest, when leveled against their TOS.  But then, let's examine the actual words they use...

YOU ACKNOWLEDGE AND AGREE THAT EBAY IS NOT INVOLVED IN THE ACTUAL TRANSACTION BETWEEN BUYERS AND SELLERS.

Is that true do you think?.....They aren't actually involved in the specific payment of an item...that is indeed between the buyer and seller.....but.....The fact that they've forced all Sellers to offer a less than perfect payment system which imposes fees that cannot be recouped,  seems to demonstrate that they do in fact interfere with how the buyer and seller transact on Ebay in a broader sense, and have done since May 2008. .....

In fact they aggressively steer consumers to Paypal like sheep to a cattle dip.  Sending out these reminders doesn't seem to have much to do with the 'Actual Transaction', and that's how they'd argue it.

That clause I believe is more to do with Ebay attempting to waive all responsibility as a service provider, if the transaction between buyer and seller goes awry.   This is aptly demonstrated if you're a bank deposit customer and you get ripped off...they'll ask if you used Paypal, and if not, they'll ignore all further emails from you as a consumer....claiming they are a 'Venue' only.

Nevertheless, Ebay has already been defined as a 'Service Provider' by Victoria's Consumer Affairs Tribunal, and no doubt, they would similarly be defined as such in every other state if the scenario were tested in a legal arena.   

These reminders seems to be more focused on Paypal and Ebay getting paid faster, and therefore misusing their market power to blatantly interfere with the Payment process itself...not the transaction specifically.....does that make sense?. 

The seller is now just a middle man between Ebay/Paypal and THEIR profit....with no right of appeal, and no right of negotiation....a bit like being hooked up to blood donor machine and regularly milked by vampires. 

It may have some relevance to the TPA in terms of Ebay dominating small businesses....but that's a very complicated area of law and I'm no expert..lol...I think Traders might have the right to run their own businesses as they see fit though...without ebay imposing itself on the transaction process don't you?

[*barny*]

OK Mr. T...

eBay got through the tax audit, in particular, the GST bit.... By way of their billing status being in Switzerland, not Australia...

Because all income generated from Australia is actually done in Switzerland, it is not subject to Australian tax law. Thus the small amount of financial dealings that eBay has in Australia, are taxable, and eBay pays only what it has to pay.

That is how I understand it..

The fault here is our Australian legislation... And, like you, I would like to see it changed.

 

[gr8-expectations]

good points cupie,

but the most important thing to me is their MOTIVE behind bringing this in;

what is the normal reaction, i.e. the average reaction to a payment reminder in prolly over 80% of cases (pure conjecture lol but bolsters my case) ?

pay the bill.... right? well if you as a buyer are waiting as seems to be the case in my case of asking for sellers bank details (my preferred method, good for seller) you CANT pay, you cant even open an item dispute on the basis of "I have not received the sellers bank details etc. there is NO option for that, quite often sellers do send their bank details at the foot of their invoice, but others who have not opted to show their bank details (which NOW involves agreeing to a direct debit for fees as well) will not have them showing up in checkout.

result? head for the Paypal button (i.e. i have a bill reminder, get it sorted, dont want a npb strike etc)

ALL part of the same plan, drive buyers to Preypal for fast settlement, btw fast is also possible with bank in fact way faster for sellers to receive their money and NOT less a preypal fee or having their funds tied up in preypal for 3-5 days at least, OR having to lose $1 if they transfer to bank at less than $150 transferred.

its ALL think edge of the wedge with ebay they do nothing without having a bigger plan, their search engine is now commercial by default, yes you can use third party ones like auction sieve which will bring up auctions for things you like that you dint know existed on ebay, believe me, but that facility and ability should be in an independant not $ driven search engine on ebay itself not third party.

thats what i mean cupie when i say i dont think bodies like the ACCC even understand the logistics of selling/buying on ebay and how powerful a breach of the tpa their terms and conditions via the UA, the combined effect of preypal with ebay, its featured presence, etc. the lack of alternatives and bank details at checkout etc.

HOW for example do ebay get away with not having been MADE/Forced to display sellers bank details and make it easy for consumers (those that want to be paid by bank I mean).

The current payment reminder system, the new one, is a thinly veiled attempt to drive buyers to pay quickly, what is the only fast method in the absence of bank details carefully hidden by ebay?

what makes matters worse is that IF a seller is paid by Paypal they cant pay their post office or their debts etc. they have to wait at least days to get their funds and many I am sure end up not viewing it as real money and therefore stay in the little carefully designed preypal/ebay loop and end up using the funds within the system to buy something.

PERFECT - for ebay and Paypal, and NO acccident, i bet the stats if they were available back this up


a. Paypal.

[gr8-expectations]

OK Mr. T...

eBay got through the tax audit, in particular, the GST bit.... By way of their billing status being in Switzerland, not Australia...

Because all income generated from Australia is actually done in Switzerland, it is not subject to Australian tax law. Thus the small amount of financial dealings that eBay has in Australia, are taxable, and eBay pays only what it has to pay.

That is how I understand it..

The fault here is our Australian legislation... And, like you, I would like to see it changed.

 

thanks for that explanation brickie

[tellomon]

BUMP!

[*Brum6y*]

15. No agency.

No agency, partnership, joint venture, employee-employer, franchisor-franchisee or other similar relationship is intended to be or is created by this Agreement. In particular you have no authority to bind eBay, its related entities or affiliates in any way whatsoever.


I find this fascinating.

I would welcome a legal view of this declaration and it's relevance on eBay acting on behalf of sellers (for example, sending these payment reminders) - and more especially so since eBay are presenting these messages as if they are FROM the sellers.

In this clause, the first sentence gives NO indication of who the agent, employee or franchisee is deemed to be in the relationship which says to me that the exclusion is bilateral - which would mean eBay has no more right to act as an agent of the member than a member could act as an agent of eBay.

So all six of the phrases cited can be applied in the relationship from eBay to a member as equally as it can be applied from a member to eBay.

In the second sentence, no exclusion of any of these possibilities is even suggested - just a specific exclusion of one consequence of all the permutations of those possibilities.

I might go so far as to say that, because of the bilateral nature of the first sentence and there being no hint to the contrary, that the phrase "In particular you have no authority to bind eBay, its related entities or affiliates in any way whatsoever." could be legitimately applied in reverse.


Would love a barrister's opinion....