Author Topic: paypal - online criminals??? (Read 22980 times)

gr8-expectations · « **on:** October 11, 2009, 08:14:24 AM »

i am so angry, i sent money via paypal to a family member in trouble in another country funded by bank linked to my paypal, the money left my account last monday, today is sunday 6 days later and it still hasn't cleared into their paypal, it was $300, so preypal have played with that money now (prolly on the money markets) for six days and will end up seven at least, i got less by nearly 3 pts than the exchange rate for that currency at the time or date of the transaction and paid a fee to them, and its STILL not marked as cleared...

slow or criminals?

will try paymate next time and report here how fast they were

banks do the same thing, but never for as long, 1-3 days at the most but 7 days via paypal is outrageous

gr8-expectations · « **Reply #1 on:** October 11, 2009, 08:17:16 AM »

all their expected clearing dates are total bs, the same thing happened two weeks ago for a gift i purchased online and paid the same way, through paypal, took way longer to clear than what they said

that last transaction of money sent is the last5 i will ever send through paypal again, i am not lining the pockets of some swiss based, non gst paying bunch of criminal iriots ever again, one less sucker for them to milk

cueperkins · « **Reply #2 on:** October 11, 2009, 10:29:58 AM »

Don't use them GR8.....they've got more twists and turns than a black snake in a bushfire.

*CountessA* · « **Reply #3 on:** October 11, 2009, 01:32:39 PM »

PayPal's definitely not a fast way to send money if you fund it with your bank account.

Bazinga · « **Reply #4 on:** October 11, 2009, 06:02:41 PM »

If sending to a trusted person Westernunion is the way to go.

If funding paypal from a bank account having a credit card attached should make it instant.

But thats living dangerous with paypal helping thenselves so often to peoples money

tellomon · « **Reply #5 on:** October 11, 2009, 06:26:52 PM »

Felafel PayPal!

cueperkins · « **Reply #6 on:** October 11, 2009, 06:35:45 PM »

Hi Hawk...nice to see you back !!! I have no idea about the finer pitfalls of Paypal other than the fact that nobody trusts them, and their UA is unconscionable...that's enough for me.......it's good to have people who know the pitfalls of PooPal, back on the front line....

I wish that Paymate would start promoting itself more with our Major banks...God knows, banks don't seem to be interested in giving consumers a similar money transfer service....even though they already have international affiliations.....and with Paymate.....at least they're Australian.

tellomon · « **Reply #7 on:** October 11, 2009, 06:42:22 PM »

I have no idea about the finer pitfalls of Paypal other than the fact that nobody trusts them...

FLOCK them!

Keep yer dough.

Buy my New CD: "The Flocking Tello Invasion".

cueperkins · « **Reply #8 on:** October 11, 2009, 06:49:37 PM »

Look Tello....just focus on this for a while, and stay off the serious threads ya wonker....we don't all luv ya equally...some are braver than others !!!

Yib....Where are you?

tellomon · « **Reply #9 on:** October 11, 2009, 06:55:43 PM »

..some are braver than others !!!

Hooz-da flonking flonkers?

Bazinga · « **Reply #10 on:** October 11, 2009, 11:18:41 PM »

nice to see you back !!!

well after mixing it with the queen of ebay a long holiday has been arranged for me.

I am happy to use paypal to buy bits and pieces, if I was a seller I would be terrified.

As you say the user agreement is unconscionable and they refuse to sign the code of conduct relating to EFT leaving users without any real backup and certainly no counter they can go and pound on.

Paypal put them selves out of reach of the average customer and above the law of the land.

I only have a few hundred $$ in my account at any time and I get these from people I know, I don’t trust then to allow them free access to my bank account and credit cards.

Having someone that doesn’t want to protect its users money in control of my account scares the carp out of me.

*Yibida* · « **Reply #11 on:** October 11, 2009, 11:23:37 PM »

Quote from: night-hawk-1 on October 11, 2009, 11:18:41 PM

nice to see you back !!!

well after mixing it with the queen of ebay a long holiday has been arranged for me.

I am happy to use paypal to buy bits and pieces, if I was a seller I would be terrified.

As you say the user agreement is unconscionable and they refuse to sign the code of conduct relating to EFT leaving users without any real backup and certainly no counter they can go and pound on.

Paypal put them selves out of reach of the average customer and above the law of the land.

I only have a few hundred $$ in my account at any time and I get these from people I know, I don’t trust then to allow them free access to my bank account and credit cards.

Having someone that doesn’t want to protect its users money in control of my account scares the carp out of me.

Hi Hawk, this place seems to be a popular holiday destination when driven from the ebay forums...LOL...please check at the reception desk and we'll arrange a porter for your bags... LOLOL

Liisa-Sx · « **Reply #12 on:** October 12, 2009, 05:34:53 AM »

paypal policy updates

policy updates taking effect 14 October

Section 2.2 of the “User Agreement for PayPal Service” will have the following wording added:

“Taxes. It is your responsibility to determine what, if any, taxes apply to the payments you make or receive, and it is your responsibility to collect, report and remit the correct tax to the appropriate tax authority. PayPal is not responsible for determining whether taxes apply to your transaction, or for collecting, reporting or remitting any taxes arising from any transaction.”

Section 11 of the “User Agreement for PayPal Service” will be amended as follows:

“PayPal's Right to Hold Funds. In order to ensure the integrity of a transaction (or) where PayPal, in its sole discretion, believes that a payment you receive may involve risk to PayPal or its customers, PayPal reserves the right to hold funds or proceeds from transactions by placing them in a “pending” or hold status beyond the normal distribution period until PayPal determines, in its reasonable discretion, that any such risk has passed. PayPal may hold funds in order to mitigate any actual or reasonably anticipated risk related to transactions it considers suspicious, or where PayPal’s position (or the position of any third party with whom you are transacting through PayPal) may be adversely affected with respect to any liability or obligation of yours to PayPal or that third party.

PayPal will generally release the hold after 21 days from the date the hold is placed, unless you receive a dispute, claim, chargeback, or reversal on the transaction subject to the hold, in which case PayPal may hold the payment until the matter is resolved pursuant to this Agreement. PayPal may choose to release the hold earlier, for example, if the buyer leaves positive feedback on eBay or where PayPal is otherwise satisfied that the transaction has completed successfully.”

Paypal have also started holding funds for periods of 21 days up to 180 days.. yes 180 at their discretion, and this is on all accounts, it is there are already several thousand accounts of this having already occured and account holders many of whom have never even visited an EBay site in their life are justifyably outraged, the above change is for Ebay's PayPal ToS but is already widely applied worldwide to general non ebay accounts and has been for some time.

gr8-expectations · « **Reply #13 on:** October 12, 2009, 06:55:44 AM »

nasty ua they have liisa, i am done with them, i am calling paymate to clarify their clearance times but moving to them basically, western union is too expensive on exchange rate and fees, banks are $21.00 online or $28.00 (CBA) if sent at the bank itself, so sending via say paymate if they are faster and more reliable sounds like the go. All up it will 7 days to clear the payment into the recipients account, then 3-5 days from today for her to t/fer to her bank, admittedly if she was using the funds for an online purchase the moment it is cleared it is available for that, however, in the end they would have played with this money for 10-12 days at least, unacceptable.

pony express or carrier pigeon would have been faster.... tassie oceans a bit tough n pigeons tho

gr8-expectations · « **Reply #14 on:** October 12, 2009, 07:04:00 AM »

Paypal have also started holding funds for periods of 21 days up to 180 days.. yes 180 at their discretion, and this is on all accounts, it is there are already several thousand accounts of this having already occured and account holders many of whom have never even visited an EBay site in their life are justifyably outraged, the above change is for Ebay's PayPal ToS but is already widely applied worldwide to general non ebay accounts and has been for some time.

and lemme guess... they dont pay interest while they hold it, not bound by the eft code of conduct like others, make up their own rules, everyone sort it out in court against their expensive legal team and be dammed, modus operandi - criminal, but government and appropriate departments like dft, asic and others dont seem to give a toss either

gr8-expectations · « **Reply #15 on:** October 12, 2009, 07:17:25 AM »

update monday 12th october 2009

last monday i sent $300 to nz via paypal funded by bank, the funds left my account monday night because i actually sent the money on the saturday or friday but outside bank hours, today is seven days from the time and date they received the money and yet the bustards have still not marked the payment as cleared for the recipient.

today, very angry about it i tried emailing them and got lost in their decpetive web of email trails NONE of which actually allow a person to denotre the actual subject they want to email about (just like ebays) so you get lost in their system in (their) hope it dissipates your anger (did not work made me angrier) giving up on that decided to ring them here is what came up;

1800-073-263

6.00 a.m. to 10.00 p.m. Monday to Saturday AEST

i call the number, it answers almost immediately but noone, no thing, no voice NOTHING there.

any australian bank we call would answer in business hours or answer anyway - bunch of flockwits

the saga continues, this time i am really done with them and i am going to complain to every department under the sun.

so angry

gr8-expectations · « **Reply #16 on:** October 12, 2009, 07:31:09 AM »

does anyone have a real number directly to paypal where i can actually speak to a human? i rang the number above again just now and finally it got through but to an automated system with no options to speak to a customer service person and an automated reply with subjects none of which are what i am calling them about

ebay and paypal make my blood boil - about to blow a gasket

RATBAGS!

gr8-expectations · « **Reply #17 on:** October 12, 2009, 07:44:35 AM »

so why do ebay and paypal have such circuitous routes to real help either by phone or by email?

A. because they are a deceiving bunch of fraudsters and they have masses to hide

gr8-expectations · « **Reply #18 on:** October 12, 2009, 07:46:59 AM »

status....

Pending Until 9 Oct. 2009

erhhh.... actually guys its the 12th of october today in case it escaped your attention.... obviously not in preypal land where every day is pay day

*CountessA* · « **Reply #19 on:** October 12, 2009, 08:08:02 AM »

Gr8, BWNT recently drew our attention to a change in PayPal's phone system; even the 02 number goes to the 1800 number, he reports. And it's all automated...

Pick any subject, I'd say. See whether anything will get you to a human being.

gr8-expectations · « **Reply #20 on:** October 12, 2009, 08:22:25 AM »

thanks countess, nothing no option takes you through to a who man being - they have obviously designed it that way ala ebay phone system

lets face ut the very LAST thing they want to is communicate with their (mostly) disgruntled and angry customers - they couldn't face ut

Bazinga · « **Reply #21 on:** October 12, 2009, 09:26:39 AM »

gr8-expectations not sure what country your friend is in or how often you send money but hows about this to cut out all the BS.

If she has a mastercard or Visa why not just do a direct EFT funds transfer via internet banking?

gr8-expectations · « **Reply #22 on:** October 12, 2009, 09:44:58 AM »

night hawk, i have since sent money via the conventional international tt system to her friday, those funds arrived today with no problems so fortunately the urgency is off now but the problem remains why should paypal have the use of my hard earned money for all that time?

i can send through my online bank also, in the last case i sent it over the counter which was $28.00 compared to $21.00 sending online, for all the drama and worry with paypal i would and will never use them again, i am investigating paymate because as cupie says apparently they send the money straight away and soon as my bank has remitted to them and of course if i can avoid a fee of $21-28.00 that is better and more to the recipient, remember banks also tend in many cases to play with the funds and can take 24-48 hurs under their terms but that is nothing like the 8 days this transaction will have taken at least, then of course paypal get another "bite" at the funds on the money market for the 5-7 days they can take to pay out the paypal funds to the recipients bank.

why even banks need to make that charge is beyond me, they are making the "spread" on what exchange rate they give and the official rate anyway of some 2-4 pts depending on the bank, and they also get to play with it overnight in their funds pool mostly in forex deals, but the regulators never seem to address that issue (it would seem they make enough from that without charging a fee as well)

but in the banks favour is the safety of sending it securely, the fact it cant be held for up to 6 months as paypal can, the fact you can contact a real person and track the money's likely clearing date or go and see someone at the bank.

i chose paypal initially for the first transaction to save the $21-28 fee, but in hindsight that was not a good move

gr8-expectations · « **Reply #23 on:** October 12, 2009, 09:48:54 AM »

to actually email paypal today i had to "trick" their system and select a subject that had nothing at all to do with my complaint, i will post here their reply, i am afraid that at this juncture i was less than polite and controlled in my communication .... but its on their heads, paypal always push the envelope and the reason they "hide" behind their system is that if they really had to deal with the angry customers their system would require real resources which cost money and at the end of the day they dont have answers to the questions raised because they are policy driven

the policy being to continue the "myth" that paypal is a safe and reliable way to send and receive money or purchase goods or services online, when in fact the reverse is true

cueperkins · « **Reply #24 on:** October 12, 2009, 10:01:52 AM »

Having someone that doesn’t want to protect its users money in control of my account scares the carp out of me.

And me, and that's exactly why I refused to be extorted into indemnifying Paypal for all imaginable risk while giving them a debit authority to my accounts...it's just plain dumb.

Ask yourself....who else would you allow such indemnity and access to your funds? Anyone? even your kids?

I fear that one day we're going to hear about a massive fraud upon Paypal account holders and they will not have a bloody leg to stand on...no EFT code...nup, they're security is apparently better than or equal to the EFT code...Ask Daniel the wonker. Ya just won't see a red cent if someone robs you.

I won't be joining Paypal in the near future, and I've now accepted that I will never again sell as a collector on Ebay...bit of a shame that my 'choice' not to use paypal instantly discriminates me from being a desired consumer anymore...they can jam it. I won't be extorted.

If Ebay were playing fair according to our TPA then PAYMATE would be a payment option on Ebay also, but it isn't, so in my view, they are misusing their market power against the only other alternative payment system there is....namely Paymate. Blatant anti competitive conduct....wonder when ACCC are going to overcome their cranial rectal inversion syndrome when it comes to Ebay?.

cueperkins · « **Reply #25 on:** October 12, 2009, 10:14:33 AM »

You know what...I just realised something.....If you have a Paypal account and someone hacks it and empties your bank account...you may be still covered by the EFT code that your bank has signed....Just like ebay to defacto off liability onto someone else eh?....I bet this is how they do it.....Ebay are masters at diverting responsibility onto anyone but themselves.

I don't think however, that banks would be too impressed if they ended up being responsible for reimbursing thousands of account holders hacked via Paypal......perhaps a cross claim might ensue in that type of scenario because clearly the access point is Paypal, not the bank.

Having a security key protects me if someone logs onto netbank with my details because they won't have the pass code number....but what if they access via Paypal? Can you draw down funds into a paypal account without using your netbank? i.e. via Paypal itself? If so, the security key is useless in that scenario.

I'll ring ASIC some time this week and find out what happens if consumers are defrauded via Paypal, and their bank accounts are cleaned out.....i.e. who is responsible..Paypal? or do they get to defacto it off to the banks under an EFT code they refuse point blank to sign?....interesting question yes?

gr8-expectations · « **Reply #26 on:** October 12, 2009, 11:03:06 AM »

Having a security key protects me if someone logs onto netbank with my details because they won't have the pass code number....but what if they access via Paypal? Can you draw down funds into a paypal account without using your netbank? i.e. via Paypal itself? If so, the security key is useless in that scenario.

yes they can just "add funds from your bank account" that does not go through netbank at all nor does it require any access key

gr8-expectations · « **Reply #27 on:** October 12, 2009, 11:05:28 AM »

from memory there might be one ppal security question, like the full bank account number, but maybe not, a while since i did that

this last one was an e-cheque, finally (and only after my email to them) it cleared about 30 mins ago, the standard email, no sorries it took so long, no explanation etc. what do we expect from these turkeys, par for the course

NEVER again

cueperkins · « **Reply #28 on:** October 12, 2009, 11:07:49 AM »

Well that ain't reassuring is it?....I'll find out what happens if an account is defrauded via paypal then...i.e...is the bank account holder entitled to protection under EFT in that scenario in Paypal won't pay up?...or will the banks wash their hands of it?......you couldn't blame em, given that the weak link is Paypal, not netbank.

gr8-expectations · « **Reply #29 on:** October 12, 2009, 11:10:22 AM »

i often wonder why after the accc thingie the banks didnt go in for the kill on paypal and ebay and the eft issue? seemed like they ran out of steam or interest after the main decision

gr8-expectations · « **Reply #30 on:** October 12, 2009, 11:11:35 AM »

i d

Quote from: *Cupie* on October 12, 2009, 11:07:49 AM

Well that ain't reassuring is it?....I'll find out what happens if an account is defrauded via paypal then...i.e...is the bank account holder entitled to protection under EFT in that scenario in Paypal won't pay up?...or will the banks wash their hands of it?......you couldn't blame em, given that the weak link is Paypal, not netbank.

i doubt the banks would take any responsibility, you have provided access to paypal by an authority, its like a direct debit, the onus is on you the banks customer to decide who you will give access to and if you are silly enough to give preypal access i doubt they will cover any losses incurred

gr8-expectations · « **Reply #31 on:** October 12, 2009, 11:11:53 AM »

silly enough like me i might add

gr8-expectations · « **Reply #32 on:** October 12, 2009, 11:18:02 AM »

my angry letter which prompted the clearance of the funds in 20-30 minutes (how much longer would they have stuffed around without a complaint) and please note their reply below this post;

'i am writing to you about the above transaction
because

A. your STUPID phone system does not allow me to call you, i believe
this is a deliberate thing you have done to avoid communicating with
your mostly angry customers, whereas before you had a phone system which
had an option to speak to a customer service person you have
deliberately removed that now.

B. Your equally STUPID message email system also does not allow any
choices for the type of problem i am experiencing again a deliberate
move by paypal to remove an option to actually address an issue
specifically.

This is UNACCEPTABLE totally wrong and the appropriate government
departments will be notified and complaints formally lodged by me.

The issue i have is in regard to the above funds i sent to a family
member via your system, you have now had the use of these funds for
seven days, the expected clearing date was two days ago and they are
still not marked as cleared - what the hell is going on?

why should Paypal and ebay have the use of my hard earned money for all
that time?

pathetic service, pathetic customer service, you are a greedy, self
serving and evil corporation hell bent on deceit a lies and a user
agreement that has no legal basis in local and federal law.

when you reply to this dont attempt to patronise me nor give me the
standard frustrating and deceptive answers, i want to know exactly WHY
when those funds left my bank account overnight monday my family member
has not got them showing as cleared by now in her paypal.'

gr8-expectations · « **Reply #33 on:** October 12, 2009, 11:21:22 AM »

paypal's lame reply - no apologies, no explanation etc. in other words the usual treatment of its "valued" customers

Dear XXXXXX (name removed),

Thank you for contacting PayPal, my name is Manuela and I am happy to
assist you today.

I can sense the importance of this matter to you. Allow me to help you
get to the bottom of this matter.

I apologise for the inconvenience this may have caused you.

I understand that you want to check the status of the payment with
transaction id XXXXXXXXXXXXX, . Upon carefully
reviewing your account, I have checked that you are pertaining to the
payment you made amounting to $254.77 AUD dated Oct. 6. Please note that
this payment is already cleared. This means that your seller has their
payment already. You may log in to your account to check the status of
your payment.

You can see transaction details in your account history. Here's how:
1. Go to the PayPal website and log in to your account
2. Click 'History' at the top of the page.
3. Select a date range.
4. Click 'Search'.
5. Click 'Details' next to any transaction for more information.

I'm sorry to hear you have experienced some difficulties when you
recently called through to our new self servicing phone system. We have
made some recent changes to our phone system to ensure you are directed
to the appropriate area quickly and securely. Below I have provided
some instructions on how to navigate our new phone system.

When you call our Customer Service line you will be asked to enter the
telephone number registered to your PayPal account.

Tips on entering telephone numbers:

1. Enter the number you have registered on your account
2. If it is a landline enter the area code and the number eg: 2 1234
4567
3. If it is a mobile number, you do not need to enter an area code

Once you enter this number, you will be directed to our Main Menu, which
has the following options:

1. Login Issues
2. Suspicious emails
3. Claims
4. Limitations
5. My Account and Payments
6. PayPal Features

At the end of each menu, if you are unable to locate the option your
question falls under, you also have the option to talk to one of our
customer service agents.

I trust the above will assist you when you telephone PayPal again.

I am confident that the information I have provided will address your
concern. Should you need further assistance, feel free to contact us.

Sincerely,
Manuela
PayPal, an eBay Company

PayPal Australia Pty Limited.
Copyright © 1999-2009 PayPal. All rights reserved. PayPal Australia Pty
Limited ABN 93 111 195 389 (PPA) holds an Australian Financial Services
Licence, number 304962. Any general financial product advice provided in
this email is provided by PPA and has not taken into account your
objectives, financial situations or needs.

gr8-expectations · « **Reply #34 on:** October 12, 2009, 11:22:22 AM »

At the end of each menu, if you are unable to locate the option your
question falls under, you also have the option to talk to one of our
customer service agents.

the above is not true, there is NO option to speak to a customer service person

a blatant lie

gr8-expectations · « **Reply #35 on:** October 12, 2009, 11:23:21 AM »

ok in all fairness - this is sort of an apology i suppose

I apologise for the inconvenience this may have caused you.

cueperkins · « **Reply #36 on:** October 12, 2009, 11:24:06 AM »

Bazinga · « **Reply #37 on:** October 12, 2009, 11:30:52 AM »

Email them back to say the reply didnt deal with your question of why it has taken so long to process the transaction.

and secondly that the ph system doesnt operate as they have indicated, this leads you to believe its either faulty or they dont understand their own system

gr8-expectations · « **Reply #38 on:** October 12, 2009, 11:31:30 AM »

ok i'm done now (blood pressure back to norm) lol sorry to put you all thru the pain - lesson learnt NEVER again

thanks for all the replies.... have a nice day

still 3-7 days before the recipient will get the money in her bank and the bank money i also sent?

sent day - friday last
arrival day? - today

total time - 1 business day

enuf said already..../

gr8-expectations · « **Reply #39 on:** October 12, 2009, 11:32:29 AM »

Quote from: night-hawk-1 on October 12, 2009, 11:30:52 AM

Email them back to say the reply didnt deal with your question of why it has taken so long to process the transaction.

and secondly that the ph system doesnt operate as they have indicated, this leads you to believe its either faulty or they dont understand their own system

doing that now hawkie

*CountessA* · « **Reply #40 on:** October 12, 2009, 11:32:33 AM »

Gr8, can you record an attempt to speak to a real life customer service person using PayPal's new "improved" phone system? This will be evidence in any formal complaint to Consumer Affairs.

PayPal's employees unfortunately don't seem to know what is actually happening, and merely quote what they've been TOLD is happening.

gr8-expectations · « **Reply #41 on:** October 12, 2009, 11:35:05 AM »

Quote from: gr8-expectations on October 12, 2009, 11:23:21 AM

ok in all fairness - this is sort of an apology i suppose

I apologise for the inconvenience this may have caused you.

i would have preferred....

I apologise for the (insert word "massive") inconvenience this may have caused you (insert words "and particularly the recipient who was reliant on the funds being received in a timely manner").

gr8-expectations · « **Reply #42 on:** October 12, 2009, 11:36:33 AM »

consumer affairs only have to try ringing them to see that option does not exist, easy - they are not likely to change it and yes agree the staff are prolly told lies so they in turn can promulgate myths and untruths in paypals favor

gr8-expectations · « **Reply #43 on:** October 12, 2009, 11:37:43 AM »

what a lovely little smokescreen to hide behind - the "ILLUSION" of real customer service with a reality quite different

i still believe had i not written and complained those funds would not be cleared as they were shortly after the email

gr8-expectations · « **Reply #44 on:** October 12, 2009, 11:38:16 AM »

at least my funds had a holiday in bern, switzerland even if my sister and i didnt

*CountessA* · « **Reply #45 on:** October 12, 2009, 12:08:23 PM »

NEWS FLASH Money goes skiing A couple of bank notes were found skiing on purloined skis down the Swiss Alps today, according to reporters on the scene. The bank notes were unrepentant. "The skis are on hold; we're just using them while the owner can't," said Mr Franc. He and his friend Eurolita de Coeurency also hired a Swiss chalet and hosted a massive party for friends and associates, where the rare vintage champagne was "flowing like Niagara Falls", according to sources close to the couple.

tellomon · « **Reply #46 on:** October 12, 2009, 12:25:58 PM »

You made that up.

*CountessA* · « **Reply #47 on:** October 12, 2009, 12:31:15 PM »

What... could possibly give you that idea? :tongueincheek:

tellomon · « **Reply #48 on:** October 12, 2009, 12:39:05 PM »

Sources are unreliable.

*smee* · « **Reply #49 on:** October 12, 2009, 01:00:29 PM »

tomato source is reliable !

News:

Author Topic: paypal - online criminals??? (Read 22980 times)

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