Author Topic: The BLAME Game (Read 15092 times)

*r3830* · « **on:** January 16, 2011, 04:36:39 PM »

GAWD! There are some dopey WONKS in the world! Bob should really get out more. And these people run the Labor Government!

Coal miners to blame for Queensland floods, says Australian Greens leader Bob Brown

Senator Brown said the Federal Government should impose the original version of the Resources Super Profits Tax, and use the funds to pay for the clean-up.

"It's the single biggest cause - burning coal - for climate change and it must take its major share of responsibility for the weather events we are seeing unfolding now," he said in Hobart today.

http://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/news/breaking-news/coal-miners-to-blame-for-queensland-floods-says-australian-greens-leader-bob-brown/story-e6freuyi-1225988806619

*smee* · « **Reply #1 on:** January 16, 2011, 04:40:28 PM »

Bob =

*CountessA* · « **Reply #2 on:** January 16, 2011, 04:55:37 PM »

HellWest'nCrooked · « **Reply #3 on:** January 16, 2011, 04:56:58 PM »

Now that is embarrassing.......... and that idiot has the country at ransom.....
shiver me timbers!!!!!!!

Very rarely do I call anyone an idiot, I save it for the truly deserving.

*Brum6y* · « **Reply #4 on:** January 16, 2011, 05:08:58 PM »

Well, Westie - from my observations, politicians are generally high up on the short list of 'idiots' - and it seems we have a few right charmers vying for nomination!!

tellomon · « **Reply #5 on:** January 16, 2011, 06:26:08 PM »

*smee* · « **Reply #6 on:** January 16, 2011, 06:36:01 PM »

lacey · « **Reply #7 on:** January 16, 2011, 08:11:50 PM »

And it starts!

mandurahmum · « **Reply #8 on:** January 17, 2011, 01:27:48 AM »

I have a better one I think

http://www.news.com.au/breaking-news/pastor-says-kevin-rudd-to-blame-for-floods/story-e6frfku0-1225985730895

Of course this is the same dimwit that said the bushfires were caused because we decriminalised abortions in Victoria. Kinda a shame this idiot was not aborted I think

lacey · « **Reply #9 on:** January 17, 2011, 07:37:42 AM »

Quote from: mandurahmum on January 17, 2011, 01:27:48 AM

I have a better one I think

http://www.news.com.au/breaking-news/pastor-says-kevin-rudd-to-blame-for-floods/story-e6frfku0-1225985730895

Of course this is the same dimwit that said the bushfires were caused because we decriminalised abortions in Victoria. Kinda a shame this idiot was not aborted I think

lol, MM you nearly wore my breakfast with than reply.

Personally I think these people have lost any credibility, that's if they ever had any in the first place. Those answers would have to be the most stupid, one could ever think of but, we'll wait and see who else comes out with some as stupid.

golden · « **Reply #10 on:** January 17, 2011, 11:05:55 AM »

Quote from: lacey on January 17, 2011, 07:37:42 AM

Personally I think these people have lost any credibility, that's if they ever had any in the first place. Those answers would have to be the most stupid, one could ever think of but, we'll wait and see who else comes out with some as stupid.

Catch the fire ministries are way, way, way out there!!! Think auspak, trbag "out there" they are a danger to themselves and everyone around them.
http://ozsoapbox.com/rest-of-australia/what-the-hell-is-wrong-with-catch-the-fire-ministries/

I'm not defending anyone but it always seems that in times of disaster/tragedy good meaning people like the Salvos try their hardest to do their bit for all people from any walk of life. I don't think those sort of people need to be tarred with the same brush or lose credibility.

Our city was built in the gold rush days. The Catholics own everything, and I mean megawealth. I dont think I've ever heard them do anything for the people in strife or the unconverted. We have massive cathedrals and churches everywhere, every second school in this city is Catholic. In times like the last week I've heard nothing from them except they'll get the Pope to pray for us. Well woopdie do, thanks for that! Its times like these people are really questioning their faith (if they are believers) or even questioning the relevance of religion, surely now would be a time to get out and roll up your sleeves and show some relevance to the people on the street.

golden · « **Reply #11 on:** January 17, 2011, 11:12:23 AM »

Now off religion onto politics lol

My question to anyone is "what is one thing Julia Gillard has achieved since election day?"

*r3830* · « **Reply #12 on:** January 17, 2011, 11:26:30 AM »

My question to anyone is "what is one thing Julia Gillard has achieved since election day?"

She's maintained an extraordinary public 'dislike' result. This was actually improved on (in the negative sense) in Brisbane quite recently! Consistency is important.

*CountessA* · « **Reply #13 on:** January 17, 2011, 12:34:05 PM »

I can say definitely that the Catholic churches have been doing a huge amount of organising donations and offering support (financial and other) in response to the floods.

This has been true of most churches in Australia as well: the German Lutheran Church, the Presbyterian Church, the Salvation Army, to name but three others. Some churches don't donate with any fanfare, so you won't see the media calling attention to it. That's actually my preferred approach to giving, and thank goodness there are so many people (church-going, non-churchgoing) in Australia whose hearts have been touched by the disaster, and who have responded to it by giving in some way.

Anyway - back to the topic! (Apologies to r3830 for my meandering.)

Some are saying the blame for the Queensland floods lies at least party in the lap of La Nina - see this link. In some parts of the world severe flooding is occurring, as very heavy rain and landslides affect regions of Australia, Brazil and much of Sri Lanka, with the La Nina weather pattern to blame to at least some of it, forecasters say.

The British Met Office said some speculation has surrounded the meteorological reasons for the severe weather, these include a near record La Nina event with colder than normal ocean waters in the tropical Pacific Ocean.

For the Australian state of Queensland, it said there is strong evidence to suggest that La Nina is the main reason for the ongoing widespread flooding. The current floods are also the worst since 1974 - which coincided with the strongest La Nina on record.

Further afield, the links with rainfall patterns and La Nina become more uncertain. In Sri Lanka, historical records show that there is no clear link between La Nina and heavy rain. However, the Met Office said the current La Nina extends further west than usual and this is associated with a westward shift in rainfall patterns in the region. Sri Lanka is on the very western edge of this rain.

Meanwhile, the flooding and landslides in southern parts of Brazil are thought not to be directly associated with La Nina.

"These extreme conditions can be put down to the variable nature of our global weather patterns," it said.

*CountessA* · « **Reply #14 on:** January 17, 2011, 12:39:33 PM »

And then there's the question of ... why were no more dams built after the awful 1974 floods? Could other floods not have been foreseen? Would another dam have minimised this particular disaster?

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/news/opinion/seeing-red-on-dams-not-green/story-e6frg6zo-1225987397128

Quote

During the recent long drought, the dam question arose again but the response from experts and governments was along the lines of: "Why build a dam if the climate has permanently changed in a way that means there will be less rain in future?

Opposition to dams has been a key success in the development of the green movement and the Greens party since the early 1980s. But the term opposition understates the situation: it is really demonisation of dams.

In the Green quasi-religion, dams are evil, akin to a Satanic force. Thus, there must never be any big new dams built. Not ever.

The Green policy is expressed at their website as a principle: "There should be no new large-scale dams on Australian rivers."

And a piecemeal look at possible causes from various perspectives...

http://www.crikey.com.au/2011/01/14/qld-floods-the-blame-game-begins/

golden · « **Reply #15 on:** January 17, 2011, 01:08:23 PM »

I can say definitely that the Catholic churches have been doing a huge amount of organising donations and offering support (financial and other) in response to the floods

Whoops, I better redeem myself then, or I'll be struck down... unless the old CWA biddies get me first. lol. ~~theyhavelongmemoriesalso~~

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cjl9FgFKQvY

lacey · « **Reply #16 on:** January 17, 2011, 01:10:00 PM »

This is so true

“Until the 1980s it was rare to find a house in the inner-city that wasn’t elevated. But then several things occurred: the city’s population grew much larger and so did the houses. People began removing the stilts and building in underneath?—?new bedrooms, living spaces, etc.

“At the same time, the climate began to change. The Christmas/new year rainfall seemed not so heavy anymore and not so long. And then during the long drought of the mid-2000s, many people in Brisbane found it difficult to remember that the city had ever been sub-tropical at all, that heavy rain and flooding were part of its DNA.

“I remember just a few years ago a builder friend of mine saying that there was going to be trouble. That many of the houses were no longer being built to suit the Brisbane climate. That we’d all become so used to dry conditions that we’d forgotten to build for the wet.”

And it's also happened on the Sunshine Coast where all my family live. They laugh at how stupid southerners have got into the councils and changed everything around to suit themselves. My family ancestors are pioneers of that region and my dad can tell you what used to happen up there. These days he just shakes his head at the stupidity of it all.

*Brum6y* · « **Reply #17 on:** January 17, 2011, 01:25:51 PM »

Lacey - your post brought to mind the old saying:

Those who do not learn from history are destined to repeat it

and when I Googled that, I came across somebody's twist - that reflected your observation rather well, I thought:

Those who do learn from history are only slightly less likely not to repeat it, because they will be overwhelmed by the great number of people who haven't learned from it.

It is such a simple stupidity that because someone hasn't seen something with their own eyes, they will rationalise the risk as being one of those weird things that muddy-brained old folks might babble about.

Even in areas that are subject to a "1 in 100 year flood" risk - people look at the "100 year" part (which is determined by people) and don't pay a lot of attention the the "flood" part (which Mother Nature controls).... and who says Mother Nature is going to be obliging with any government "assessment"?

*Brum6y* · « **Reply #18 on:** January 17, 2011, 01:35:34 PM »

There has already been some aerial photography of part of the Brisbane River precinct under flood (see www.nearmap.com.au) and I hope there will be some wide scale satellite imagery captured as well.

These will not only assist the analysis and planning of various aspects of flood related actions - but might also be a more tangible reference for those who find historical details a chore to comprehend.

golden · « **Reply #19 on:** January 17, 2011, 01:55:16 PM »

Lacey, do you think it would be possible for yourself or other family to help your father put his memories/thoughts/ideas down on paper.

There are going to be lots of inquiries, why shouldn't they hear from people who have been there before.

lacey · « **Reply #20 on:** January 17, 2011, 03:10:12 PM »

Quote from: *Brum6y* on January 17, 2011, 01:25:51 PM

Lacey - your post brought to mind the old saying:

Those who do not learn from history are destined to repeat it

and when I Googled that, I came across somebody's twist - that reflected your observation rather well, I thought:

Those who do learn from history are only slightly less likely not to repeat it, because they will be overwhelmed by the great number of people who haven't learned from it.

It is such a simple stupidity that because someone hasn't seen something with their own eyes, they will rationalise the risk as being one of those weird things that muddy-brained old folks might babble about.

Even in areas that are subject to a "1 in 100 year flood" risk - people look at the "100 year" part (which is determined by people) and don't pay a lot of attention the the "flood" part (which Mother Nature controls).... and who says Mother Nature is going to be obliging with any government "assessment"?

yes and people who are say 40 and never seen a 100 year flood but who see the 100 part in the paper would in my opinion think they still have 60years to go and therefore not likely to happen in their lifetime. And this is what my daughter said to me when she was about 18. So who's to say that a lot of other ppl don't think the same way.

Goldy it won't make any difference what people are told, they wouldn't believe it because they don't want to believe it.

It's not much different to you being partly deaf. You will still get ppl who will say to you (even if they have known you forever) geez, can't you hear that?

People are the same the world over. They believe what they want to believe. That's why we still make a lot of the same mistakes.

my dad and I used to go to QLD twice a year to visit his mum and off we'd go for a drive between Mooloolaba and Caloundra. In between the land was all swampy and about 4 ft lower than the road. Then one year, low and behold there was the 1st house built there on a concrete slab and single story at that. Even being so young I knew it was one of the stupidest things I had even seen. Luckily someone got their brain in order and it's now all built up fairly high but, it must have taken an awful lot of fill to do the whole stretch.

golden · « **Reply #21 on:** January 17, 2011, 07:52:05 PM »

Goldy it won't make any difference what people are told, they wouldn't believe it because they don't want to believe it

No worries mate, she'll be right. You're absolutely correct. Let us make our own mistakes and cop the consequences. Trouble is alot of these peoples footprints are going to be washed away not long after a short time and they wont even be here to tell us I told you so.

lacey · « **Reply #22 on:** January 17, 2011, 08:54:35 PM »

haha you are right there.

My fathers grandfather built some of the first roads in Brisbane but my dad was told fibbers when he was young. His fathers side of the family didn't want ppl to know that the original was a convict. But the original wasn't totally stupid. He stole a hankerchief and got free passage out here. He was endentured to someone and then it was found that he was an civil engineer? ( I think) so he was released to built roads and docks. Now even I can't remember the full story. hmm I think I will get my dad to write it all down.

Great idea Goldy.

Centuries · « **Reply #23 on:** January 17, 2011, 11:27:16 PM »

Another fact many people do not appear to understand is, that when they hear the term "1 in 100 year flood ", that is a statistical figure. There could be e.g 100 or 20 years between mega type flooding occurring.

*smee* · « **Reply #24 on:** January 17, 2011, 11:29:48 PM »

a bloke from the bureau of meatheadorology in Queensland said .......on the news.......

"we get these once in a 100 hundred year floods here about every 5 years" ......

I rest my case !!!!!!

callostemma · « **Reply #25 on:** January 18, 2011, 12:03:40 PM »

Its not the people who get flooded who make the mistakes, its the councils, builders, planners , land agents, who come before them, make their money/mark and disappear. I know of one of my workmates who bought a house near a creek and is now worried it is filling with water, She came to Renmark when the creek had, for the first time in my lifetime and possible my fathers, dried up. Until now it had been used as an irrigation supply line. She thought it had always been dry. I asked her "How do you think it got there in the first place?" It seems people have been so programemed to the million of years senario , they can't accept that anything can happen overnight.

lacey · « **Reply #26 on:** January 18, 2011, 12:13:06 PM »

That's true cal but the again, didn't she make the mistake of buying the house? Why would anyone think a creek would always be dry?

So true smee.

and another one going around right now is, the once in 200 year flood at Horsham, vic. And they could only guess that because it hasn't flooded for the last 200 years but, what about b4 white men came here. it could have flooded every 20years for all they would know.

callostemma · « **Reply #27 on:** January 18, 2011, 12:24:02 PM »

Hi Golden, read your article on catch the fire, Mind you this man and his followers , are only praying against their alledged enemies, not attacking them in any physical way, and we do have freedom of speech in Aus. Anyone who is alarmed at this man's claims should check out their accuracy, and publish the results.
I myself have seen first-hand the results of pentecostal teachings,

but to suggest that anyone who has a different view from the mainstream should be certified, well , where do you stop. everyone has a different view, even those whom you think agree with the majority

*CountessA* · « **Reply #28 on:** January 18, 2011, 12:49:37 PM »

There is this "she'll be right, mate" perception, isn't there?

If there have been no floods for as long as anyone can remember, there's a terrible tendency for any suggestion that there MIGHT be danger to be greeted with a superior laugh.

But if the information is collected and calculated, we can gauge that even the unlikely IS GOING TO HAPPEN.

golden · « **Reply #29 on:** January 18, 2011, 01:25:30 PM »

Quote from: callostemma on January 18, 2011, 12:24:02 PM

Hi Golden, read your article on catch the fire, Mind you this man and his followers , are only praying against their alledged enemies, not attacking them in any physical way, and we do have freedom of speech in Aus. Anyone who is alarmed at this man's claims should check out their accuracy, and publish the results.

Hi Callo, where will I start to research his claims?. Last time I checked I couldn't find any info on how having an abortion law would cause multiple deaths in a bushfire. Likewise, because K. Rudd spoke out against Israel that we all deserve to die in these catastrophic floods.

Yes, we do have freedom of speech, (with some limits) the majority would find his sermons/rantings offensive what ever walk of life you come from and that would include feeling physically sick.

Why does this man taken in by Australia feel he needs to pray against us as his alledged enemies? Its Old Testament, fire and brimstone wrath. He needs medication not followers, just my opinion.

golden · « **Reply #30 on:** January 18, 2011, 01:34:32 PM »

Just a topical article about what others have been saying in relation to the flooding and council approvals.

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/in-depth/queensland-floods/history-forgotten-in-rush-to-brisbane-riverfront-luxury/story-fn7iwx3v-1225989888774

lacey · « **Reply #31 on:** January 18, 2011, 02:27:51 PM »

Quote from: golden on January 18, 2011, 01:25:30 PM

Quote from: callostemma on January 18, 2011, 12:24:02 PM
Hi Golden, read your article on catch the fire, Mind you this man and his followers , are only praying against their alledged enemies, not attacking them in any physical way, and we do have freedom of speech in Aus. Anyone who is alarmed at this man's claims should check out their accuracy, and publish the results.

Hi Callo, where will I start to research his claims?. Last time I checked I couldn't find any info on how having an abortion law would cause multiple deaths in a bushfire. Likewise, because K. Rudd spoke out against Israel that we all deserve to die in these catastrophic floods.

Yes, we do have freedom of speech, (with some limits) the majority would find his sermons/rantings offensive what ever walk of life you come from and that would include feeling physically sick.

Why does this man taken in by Australia feel he needs to pray against us as his alledged enemies? Its Old Testament, fire and brimstone wrath. He needs medication not followers, just my opinion.

lol, I wholeheartedly agree with that last sentiment Goldy. Definitely medication. But I didn't know he lived in Australia. Scurvy brute, he should get kicked out. I hate troublemakers.

golden · « **Reply #32 on:** January 18, 2011, 02:56:43 PM »

Nalliah was born in Colombo, Sri Lanka. He was raised in a strongly religious family, and rose through the church ranks from youth leader through to becoming a pastor. He married in 1987, and his two children were born soon after. He continued to preach in the more remote regions of Sri Lanka until 1995, when he and his wife moved to Saudi Arabia. He spent two years preaching Christianity and attempting to circumvent the official ban on the religion in the Muslim state. However, in 1997, he decided to move to Australia and founded his own evangelical organisation.

After moving to Australia and founding Catch the Fire, Nalliah traveled extensively, preaching to congregations in a number of countries. He asserts that he witnessed the healing of blind, deaf and crippled people at his prayer sessions, and claims that a dead girl was resurrected after he prayed for her

At a very young age he started playing for a band and spent 6 years in night clubs and hotels across Sri Lanka as a drummer. birds of a feather...flock together...lol..

lacey · « **Reply #33 on:** January 18, 2011, 03:35:45 PM »

OK well like I said, trouble makers shouldn't be allowed in. Why do they let them come?

*CountessA* · « **Reply #34 on:** January 18, 2011, 03:55:23 PM »

I can't in any way see that this man is comparable to some of the people who have been permitted refugee status in Australia, such as the man who touched up a sixteen year old girl in a busy crowded train. His reason/excuse? Apparently tortured by the Taliban in Afghanistan. But we should bear in mind that he arrived here with refugee status: no proof of his identity, no proof of his claims.

Being religiously rather zealous doesn't compare to such completely unacceptable behaviour, in my opinion...

But of course, none of this is really explanatory when it comes to the floods. If we think about what's contributed to the devastation, it seems there is also a factor of possibly insufficient warning - at least at Grantham.

I know there'll be an enquiry - but will that enquiry really help? Will it honestly sort out where there was negligence... or where there was insufficient infrastructure... or inadequate procedures...? Will it provide a SOLUTION to those problems? There was a full enquiry after the 1974 QLD floods, but apart from the building of one dam (not all the recommended dams, if I understand it correctly), nothing was done.

Will again nothing, or very little, be done?

I hope that will not be the case.

*Brum6y* · « **Reply #35 on:** January 18, 2011, 04:09:04 PM »

Tell them we'd rather swap drummers ....

golden · « **Reply #36 on:** January 18, 2011, 04:51:12 PM »

Quote from: *Brum6y* on January 18, 2011, 04:09:04 PM

Tell them we'd rather swap drummers ....

Will do!! Can't do it on the ebay forum though, they are both banned for life..

and another that makes my blood boil.

http://www.heraldsun.com.au/news/victoria/victorian-governor-david-de-kretser-blames-floods-on-climate-change/story-e6frf7kx-1225990433262

callostemma · « **Reply #37 on:** January 18, 2011, 05:51:33 PM »

HI Goldy I was refering to his miraculous claims. These can be checked and verified, if they happened in Aus. In they occured in some overseas ,remote village which he dosen't want to name because of some reason , that in itself is proof it is incorrect. I almost get the impression that you and others are afraid of this man and his ministries.
Brown blaming the coal miners for climate change ,is in my opinion , more dangerous. He's in a position where he can push his agenda, and hasn't climate change been endorsed by this government,? Money spent on conferences and drafts drawn up to implement taxes etc?
This present government is only ruling with the aid of the independants, most of whom , are greens
Who should we be concerned about?
A mouth running a religious organisation or a mouth in power in government?

*r3830* · « **Reply #38 on:** January 18, 2011, 06:33:31 PM »

Brown blaming the coal miners for climate change ,is in my opinion , more dangerous.

And a BIG Amen to that call.

*r3830* · « **Reply #39 on:** January 18, 2011, 06:40:12 PM »

No time for finger-pointing over floods, Greens warned

Resources Minister Martin Ferguson warned Senator Brown that he should remember the floods have affected not only the mining companies, whose Queensland mines have been brought to a halt, but also the workers.

"In the midst of this crisis, it is important to remember that it is not just the coal companies taking a hit," Mr Ferguson said in a statement.

Read more: http://www.news.com.au/breaking-news/national/no-time-for-finger-pointing-over-floods-greens-warned/story-e6frfku9-1225988908215#ixzz1BN1ZxwpU

golden · « **Reply #40 on:** January 18, 2011, 07:41:40 PM »

Quote from: callostemma on January 18, 2011, 05:51:33 PM

I almost get the impression that you and others are afraid of this man and his ministries.

Who should we be concerned about?
A mouth running a religious organisation or a mouth in power in government?

http://www.gci.org/church/ministry/women9

*CountessA* · « **Reply #41 on:** January 18, 2011, 09:05:09 PM »

Interesting link, Golden. I've bookmarked it for further reading.

Is it not a disgusting thing that in the ongoing effects of the floods, anyone should be seeking to make profit out of it? (By profit, I mean financial OR political.) It's hard to fathom how individuals could be so exploitative, with such a rheumy eye to the main chance. This is a time for getting into one's gumboots and trying to clean up the mess... for getting food and untainted drinking water to those people... for getting everything ready for the restoration of power once it's safe...

HellWest'nCrooked · « **Reply #42 on:** January 18, 2011, 09:39:36 PM »

no time for finger pointing

They can finger point as much as they like, as long as it is in the right direction.............MOTHER NATURE and good luck to those who think they can control her!

tellomon · « **Reply #43 on:** January 18, 2011, 10:09:16 PM »

I Promise your World will be a Better Place To Be...
...as long as I stay OUT of this!

"Pretty much a long haul on a short road".

News:

Author Topic: The BLAME Game (Read 15092 times)