Author Topic: Another eBay Travel/Holiday Seller bites the dust? (Read 41129 times)

*wheels* · « **Reply #50 on:** May 26, 2010, 11:52:46 AM »

I agree, but I do think eBay could at least provide info, even just a link to a page explaining how to file a creditcard chargeback. There also needs to be a clearer explanation of PayPal's buyer protection. Most eBay buyers assume that PayPal covers everything.

If you check any of the accommodation listings still on eBay they have the standard blurb
"Pay with PayPal and you may be protected up to $20,000. Conditions apply"

Honestly, how many people click on the 'Conditions apply'

*wheels* · « **Reply #51 on:** May 26, 2010, 11:56:35 AM »

Also, eBay should leave some of the posts on the boards that have been deleted that show the contact details for the liquidators.

*r3830* · « **Reply #52 on:** May 26, 2010, 12:07:09 PM »

Honestly, how many people click on the 'Conditions apply' ..... Now that's funny!

Doubtful that Ebay would want to share any info regarding bank chargebacks.... as this would impact on Paypal. (Could leave them out of pocket!....sad... NOT) Incidentally, Westpac used to allow 120Days from date of delivery for a chargeback claim.

*wheels* · « **Reply #53 on:** May 26, 2010, 02:50:44 PM »

copied from eBay board:

lukejamieson2010 (0)
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lukejamieson2010
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26/05/2010 11:35

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Hi All
I work for mantra group and we are the onsite manager at circle on cavill and Q1 but not chevron rennaissance. The names of the directors of this company can be found Link. We have been trying to get the authorities to investigate these guys for some time as we know they have been operating without trust accounts, or real estate or travel agent licenses and deceiving customers for some time. Also unless somehting like this happens it seems the polititicans don't want to know and when it does it is too late. We believe the total amount of money lost is some $900,000 involving 1,700 people. This is the second online qaccom operator to go down recently. Another operating as A1 holidays went into liquidation 6 weeks ago leaving another 260 people out of pocket by $300,000. It is huge.
I encourage you all to raise it loudly and strongly with peter lawlor the local state member on the gold coast and also the minister for tourism and fair trading in Queensland. These scammers and thieves are giving the gold coast, our properties and tourism in QLD a bad name so we need people to understand that they are being mislead and deceived online - tell all your friends to only book with the properties own team or licensed travel agents. Landlords from interstate are also losers as they will receive no rent from their units for an extended period.
We hope you can still come and visit the beautiful gold coast and not let the bad experience ruin your holidays. We are offering discouts to affected holidays makers at all our resorts.

*wheels* · « **Reply #54 on:** May 26, 2010, 02:51:31 PM »

bobbidyl (10)
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26/05/2010 13:49

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My comments on yet another scam rip-off are on another thread over here:

Link
http://forums.ebay.com.au/topic/Ask-A-Member/Waring-Dont-Buy/500126188
(Link no longer works, this thread has been removed by eBay)

This matter needs to be raised at the highest levels as from what I understand to sell travel, accommodation or travel related items these days you must be licensed with AFTA and a paid up member of the TCF.

Enough already of this activity on ebay and elsewhere for that matter.


bobbidyl (10)
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26/05/2010 13:54

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Don't know if the link I put above will work so here is what I said over there:

Part One:

Deja vu - this all happened a couple of years ago with serious consequences for many ebay members.

I thought as a result of that episode, ebay were going to require sellers/resellers of accommodation to be licensed to do so, i.e. like a travel agent so that in the event of a similar problem e.g. going into liquidation people would then be able to make a claim with the TCF (Travel Compensation Fund) to which all licensed travel agents must be a paid up member.

If this has happened then the question needs to be asked why not and if non-licensed sellers/resellers of accom have been doing this on ebay then it would be interesting to hear what legal opinion would have to say about this, especially if said company went into voluntary liquidation two months ago and were still trading up to a week ago.

Administrators may have said they could do so, don't know - Clive Peters went into administration last week and the next day were trading again.

Part Two:

And just to add, there are strict rules in place governing who can and who can not sell accommodation or travel related items be it via a B&M store or over the internet including places like ebay, and ebay would/should be aware of this.

To sell/resell travel related items including accom you need to be licensed - a quick phone call to the TCF or AFTA will verify this I am sure.

And this is why I referred in my post above to having thought that ebay had tightened up the rules for who can sell such items on ebay, like having to list there travel agency or other related bona fides that shows they are covered by TCF/AFTA etc and permitted to sell such products.

*Yibida* · « **Reply #55 on:** May 26, 2010, 03:15:24 PM »

Just watch.... this will be one of those times when Ebay will say it's just a venue.... the seller is responsible for the listing... Same shiit different year....

*wheels* · « **Reply #56 on:** May 26, 2010, 03:53:00 PM »

http://forums.ebay.com.au/topic/Buying/Seller-Has-Gone/500126063

[attachment deleted by admin]

*Yibida* · « **Reply #57 on:** May 26, 2010, 04:36:54 PM »

Quote from: *wheels* on May 26, 2010, 03:53:00 PM

http://forums.ebay.com.au/topic/Buying/Seller-Has-Gone/500126063

Yeh right... only if you paid by Palpay no doubt ... to bad for the ones that paid by other methods you just watch.....

*wheels* · « **Reply #58 on:** May 26, 2010, 08:33:37 PM »

Yibs, the way I read it is eBay is setting up the 'special fund', not PayPal.

*Yibida* · « **Reply #59 on:** May 26, 2010, 08:54:26 PM »

Quote from: *wheels* on May 26, 2010, 08:33:37 PM

Yibs, the way I read it is eBay is setting up the 'special fund', not PayPal.

No matter how anyone paid ?... if this is true then it's only done to appease the ACCC before they get involved...

tellomon · « **Reply #60 on:** May 26, 2010, 09:03:34 PM »

Quote from: *loco* on May 25, 2010, 06:33:08 PM

wheels, This one has just started up on the Ebay boards. Feels like nostalgia.

http://forums.ebay.com.au/topic/Community-Spirit/Gifts-2-U/500125932&start=15

Gord! Another one where I'm prompted to sign-in to view the board, only to get that "Access Denied" message, cuz I'm BANNED FOR LIFE on ebay.

Why do I need to sign-in just to look?

eBay: PFFFFTTTTT

*Yibida* · « **Reply #61 on:** May 26, 2010, 09:06:23 PM »

Another happy customer.........

the liquidators contact no. is 0755533444. There accountant advised me to call my credit card provider as ebay and paypal dusted their hands of me as i paid back in early march. i went and saw my bank manager who said they will send me forms to fill out and bring back and they would credit me and recover the debts themselves in the case of insolvency. Rebooked holiday with chevron towers for a very pleasing price so it now looks like our holiday will cost us less for accommodation. Happy with my bank but screw ebay and screw paypal!!

tellomon · « **Reply #62 on:** May 26, 2010, 09:13:38 PM »

FLOCK those clowns!

*wheels* · « **Reply #63 on:** May 26, 2010, 10:29:10 PM »

http://forums.ebay.com.au/topic/Buying/Seller-Has-Gone/500126063

The eBay pinks will be busy, lots of buyers are posting their personal info on this thread. Feel sorry for the ones who have holidays booked in the next couple of weeks.

*wheels* · « **Reply #64 on:** May 26, 2010, 10:44:18 PM »

I've been trying to find some general info about creditcard chargebacks on the banks websites, not easy!

Chargeback time frames range from 60 days to 120 days from the date the transaction was processed to your account. It is therefore crucial that you notify your bank of any disputed transactions immediately.

Centuries · « **Reply #65 on:** May 26, 2010, 10:50:28 PM »

I feel sorry for them, too, wheels.

It must be devastating for those who have lost their holiday and money. Not everyone would have the money to pay again, even if discounts were offered to them.

I wish people would just go through a travel agent or similarly accredited company, and have travel/holiday insurance.

*r3830* · « **Reply #66 on:** May 26, 2010, 11:08:04 PM »

wheels - any person who paid using Visa / Mastercard should be contacting their bank of issue. I couldn't find any info on this when I had an earlier issue either..... but was absolutely amazed at the assistance received from my bank. It was effortless, totally easy - and they arranged all. Costs 40c for the call!

Liisa-Sx · « **Reply #67 on:** May 27, 2010, 12:14:09 AM »

Michelle from Ebay wrote this on the boards Post 19 of 34 in the thread linked below:
http://forums.ebay.com.au/topic/Buying/Seller-Has-Gone/500126063#1274878742810

eBay to set up fund for buyers who purchased from seller "gifts_2_u"

"eBay is in the process of setting up a special fund to pay buyers who purchased vouchers from eBay.com.au "seller gifts_2_u" and have not received or cannot redeem their vouchers.

eBay understands that the seller is in liquidation and is working with the appointed liquidator to better understand the situation. Based on information provided by the liquidator it is our understanding that all vouchers scheduled to be used prior to 19 May 2010 have been honoured.

eBay is now looking through the seller's listings and working with the liquidator in an attempt to identify vouchers sold which were to be used post 19 May 2010.

It is likely that eBay will need to set-up two separate processes to pay buyers whose vouchers dates:
1. Can be identified
2. Cannot be identified

We are aiming to finalise the details of these processes in the coming days and will email impacted buyers with next steps shortly.

eBay is creating this one-off fund in recognition of the unique circumstances pertaining to these sales. eBay regrets any loss and inconvenience buyers have experienced.

Regards
Michelle
The eBay team"

There has been no other information so far as to who will be covered and who wont and what the specific criteria will be to be eligible for this special fund.

Funny thing is people have been contacting PayPal only to be told they are not covered as it was outside the 45 day limit as well as several other excuses.

Odd also is the fact that "intangible goods" (PayPals words) that are against Ebay policy are permitted to be sold as Pre-sales under the guise of "services".

They also have the "PayPal Protection" wording with (Pay with PayPal and you may be protected up to $20,000. Conditions ) a small blue conditions link beside it, IMHO if the item is NOT covered by PayPal there should be NO PayPal Protection wording visible period.

*Yibida* · « **Reply #68 on:** May 27, 2010, 12:32:10 AM »

"may be protected"....don't you just love it Liisa.... so so so.... incognito ... and did I mention vague ?

{ Step up to the mark ACCC .... here's your cue }

Liisa-Sx · « **Reply #69 on:** May 27, 2010, 12:44:28 AM »

Yes Yib, they use the word "may" like its a get out of jail free card, it's on every single policy..whenever it suits of course, ahh the 'rote' of policy lol.

(just for you Yibs j/k) - Rote: routine; a fixed, habitual, or mechanical course of procedure: the rote of PayPal and Ebay policy.

*Brum6y* · « **Reply #70 on:** May 27, 2010, 01:03:19 AM »

You could slot eBay and PayPal right into this ...... soooooooooooo easily...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DcMFsgA9iPo

...couldn't you?

Just waiting for the stampede of wild elephants... It's getting closer every day.

*Yibida* · « **Reply #71 on:** May 27, 2010, 01:06:27 AM »

Quote from: Liisa-Sx on May 27, 2010, 12:44:28 AM

Yes Yib, they use the word "may" like its a get out of jail free card, it's on every single policy..whenever it suits of course, ahh the 'rote' of policy lol.

(just for you Yibs j/k) - Rote: routine; a fixed, habitual, or mechanical course of procedure: the rote of PayPal and Ebay policy.

"Your mocking me aren't you ? ".... to infinity and beyond !....

*Brum6y* · « **Reply #72 on:** May 27, 2010, 01:12:56 AM »

Quote from: *Yibida* on May 27, 2010, 01:06:27 AM

"Your mocking me aren't you ? ".... to infinity and beyond !....

Let me know when you get there...

Liisa-Sx · « **Reply #73 on:** May 27, 2010, 02:50:03 AM »

Quote from: *Yibida* on May 27, 2010, 01:06:27 AM

"Your mocking me aren't you ? ".... to infinity and beyond !....

Ok so I went, took a look and it's boring (see below)............so I came back

http://www.wwwdotcom.com/

bnwt · « **Reply #74 on:** May 27, 2010, 07:51:11 AM »

eBay fund for dudded Coast visitors

http://www.goldcoast.com.au/article/2010/05/27/221575_gold-coast-news.html

*r3830* · « **Reply #75 on:** May 27, 2010, 08:37:16 AM »

Setting up a "One-off fund". Now where have I heard that before? Ah yes - I recall the name was Andrew Pipolo - and the event was the EBS crash. The statement appears to be made when there may be media attention involved. (after this thing dies down.... we'll tell all the whingers to piss off!)
Appears to be around 2000 users and $900,000 involved. Don't you love it..... a one-off fund!

*r3830* · « **Reply #76 on:** May 27, 2010, 08:57:52 AM »

I liked this statement from Michelle sooooo much..... I pinched it as well. Don't you love censorship!

Hi all,

Please understand that this discussion board is not the place to be entering into conversations about individual cases. The team are working to identify all affected buyers and will contact them directly.

To ensure you're posts are not reported or removed for violating policies, please also refrain from speculation and rumour in regard to the practices of the seller. As we've mentioned the team are working with the appointed liquidator to better understand the situation.

Regards
Michelle
The eBay team

Translation: Be quiet you noisy Barstards! This matter is embarrassing to us! Thou shalt not speak of it!

Thank goodness for OZRT!

tellomon · « **Reply #77 on:** May 27, 2010, 10:06:06 AM »

eBay HQ:

[attachment deleted by admin]

*r3830* · « **Reply #78 on:** May 27, 2010, 10:10:35 AM »

Tello..... The best its looked in years!

tellomon · « **Reply #79 on:** May 27, 2010, 10:13:18 AM »

Yes, and for many years I've been sounding the Clarion Call: Get out of eBay!.

People dint listen and kittens die.

White Witch · « **Reply #80 on:** May 27, 2010, 10:18:01 AM »

I like your translation of that email Loco! (or should I call you crazy?)

Spot on!

*r3830* · « **Reply #81 on:** May 27, 2010, 10:19:54 AM »

Either way witchy.... you'd probably be right! LOL

Liisa-Sx · « **Reply #82 on:** May 27, 2010, 10:26:43 AM »

Quote from: *loco* on May 27, 2010, 08:57:52 AM

I liked this statement from Michelle sooooo much..... I pinched it as well. Don't you love censorship!

Hi all,

Please understand that this discussion board is not the place to be entering into conversations about individual cases. The team are working to identify all affected buyers and will contact them directly.

To ensure you're posts are not reported or removed for violating policies, please also refrain from speculation and rumour in regard to the practices of the seller. As we've mentioned the team are working with the appointed liquidator to better understand the situation.

Regards
Michelle
The eBay team

Translation: Be quiet you noisy Barstards! This matter is embarrassing to us! Thou shalt not speak of it!

Thank goodness for OZRT!

Censorship indeed lol, Michelle is industriously removing and deleting any threads or comments on the matter with one exception, the thread that your quote came from where she repeatedly "warns" victims to keep their complaints to a murmur and to not discuss their cases with anyone there...Ebay/PayPal would have no need to be embarrassed if they were not so underhanded and persisted in shafting it's own customers.

The fact is they undoubtedly know a lot more than they let on and they hoped they would not get hit in the fallout, however this time the victims are smarter and are running to the relevant Government bodies and Media in droves...Buyers and Sellers alike are bloody tired of Ebay and its dishonesty... don't worry Ebay you "MAY" have to be answerable, and you "MAY" be placed once again under the media microscope.. and your customers "MAY" forgive you, and your credibility "MAY" improve......yeah right....lol

White Witch · « **Reply #83 on:** May 27, 2010, 10:34:37 AM »

Hi my dear neighbour Lisa! Good morning!

Hope you're well!

Loco, did you know that loco means crazy in spanish?

I'm a bit loca myself sometimes!

I just hope this incident doesn't give ALL sellers a bad name. My ebay business is my only sorce of income, it pays my bills (just! As it's a lot quieter lately!) and if customers get scared away by all this...........I'll have to get a real job!

Liisa-Sx · « **Reply #84 on:** May 27, 2010, 10:37:56 AM »

Hiya neighbour, hows this rain eh.. miserable *looks out window* looks like more on the way and it was sunny this morning.. boooo.

I have to leave the home office shortly to go get supplies to create another birthday cake for a family member, I will be up to my armpits in fondant, royal icing, piping bags and colouring for the next few days arghhh.. this weather does not help the icing much!

LOL Loopi is my nickname I have had it since I was a child, but my friends delight in calling me Loca !

I am optimistic that this time around victims can be helped providing they are given the correct information, a little determination goes a long way.

White Witch · « **Reply #85 on:** May 27, 2010, 10:43:24 AM »

No wonder we all get along........... we're all crazy!

I took the day off yesterday, it was so cosy and pouring all day! I didn't do much, it was great! I have to catch up with my packing today, but can't get motivated!

Liisa-Sx · « **Reply #86 on:** May 27, 2010, 11:25:41 AM »

Being crazy is the only way to stay sane, besides it's way more fun LOL

Now back on topic, there has been a facebook page setup for victims to discuss and collaborate apparently click the link below:
http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=119875898050238

tellomon · « **Reply #87 on:** May 27, 2010, 11:32:19 AM »

I signed in just to watch the fireworks!

If I post, I won't be sympathetic...

Should I post this thread's URL there?

tellomon · « **Reply #88 on:** May 27, 2010, 12:15:35 PM »

Wow. Great facebook page on the topic. Here's a sample post:

Hannah Nixon : I have tried contacting ebay, and they want nothing to do with this. Paypal also said that they will not refund because it is not a physcical good. what is the number to talk to somebosy other then a computer at paypal?
Yesterday at 6:24am · Comment · LikeUnlike · Flag

eBay: 'just a venue'.

Liisa-Sx · « **Reply #89 on:** May 27, 2010, 12:26:30 PM »

There in lies the problem regarding Ebay/Paypal, many people are saying that when they called Ebay and Paypal the operators they spoke to had no clue and gave wildly differing answers, most of it rote... it would seem PayPal/Ebay have not filled their call center staff in on the situation and in turn they are getting the mechanical reply of "intangible item, sorry go away".

The lip service that was given to members on the ebay boards was ambiguous and vague, they are offering No real solution or assistance, I contacted an editor I know and directed him to the Ebay thread and the facebook page, he was VERY interested.

I have to go hit the high street for a while, back later.

tellomon · « **Reply #90 on:** May 27, 2010, 12:35:05 PM »

Slay the Dragons!

*r3830* · « **Reply #91 on:** May 27, 2010, 12:38:31 PM »

And what's wrong with being crazy.... loco or loopy anyhow! Well.... a bit perhaps...

Yanno..... I was thinking.....yes - sometimes that's ~~blardy dangerous~~ ... ~~goodness save us~~... ~~Oh No - not again~~... not altogether good.... BUT - What if someone were to start a thread about how good Ebay were during previous crises... how people who paid with Paypal were supported and reimbursed for their losses - in much the same manner as is happening again right now? I wonder whether Ebay would delete that thread? Would they shoot themselves in the foot - or allow the discussion to continue?

With that - I continue to think!

Centuries · « **Reply #92 on:** May 27, 2010, 01:55:21 PM »

Quote from: *loco* on May 27, 2010, 12:38:31 PM

And what's wrong with being crazy.... loco or loopy anyhow! Well.... a bit perhaps...

Yanno..... I was thinking.....yes - sometimes that's ~~blardy dangerous~~ ... ~~goodness save us~~... ~~Oh No - not again~~... not altogether good.... BUT - What if someone were to start a thread about how good Ebay were during previous crises... how people who paid with Paypal were supported and reimbursed for their losses - in much the same manner as is happening again right now? I wonder whether Ebay would delete that thread? Would they shoot themselves in the foot - or allow the discussion to continue?

With that - I continue to think!

loco, A difficult question

After much brain draining I think that--

If they were honest about not permitting any discussion concerning eBay related matters on Cs the thread would

1) Be removed...probably to the Buying thread where some other CS threads were tucked out of view from many.

or

2) Be deleted the first time someone posted a criticism of eBay.

bnwt · « **Reply #93 on:** May 27, 2010, 03:45:10 PM »

eBay Australia sets up special fund for victims of collapsed online travel company

http://www.smartcompany.com.au/internet/20100527-ebay-australia-sets-up-special-fund-for-victims-of-collapses-online-travel-company.html

Liisa-Sx · « **Reply #94 on:** May 27, 2010, 04:00:08 PM »

Quote from: bnwt on May 27, 2010, 03:45:10 PM

eBay Australia sets up special fund for victims of collapsed online travel company

http://www.smartcompany.com.au/internet/20100527-ebay-australia-sets-up-special-fund-for-victims-of-collapses-online-travel-company.html

Thanks BNWT,

Ebay have stated they have set up a fund but callers contacting Ebay and paypal are being told they are not covered as it is an intangible item, and yes today some are still being told.. sorry no.

Some of those callers who do not know what else to do will take it as gospel and not seek financial retribution, Ebay need to lift their game..not only that but I wonder how many victims will actually be contacted? 20%? 50% 75%?

Michelle posted this in the thread on the ebay board:

michelleoz@ebay.com
(51 of 55)
27/05/2010 13:24

Hi everyone,

All affected buyers should by now have received an email from eBay (both in my messages and registered email address).
(Many many have not)

The team are busy setting up the special fund for affected buyers and establishing the process for buyers to submit a claim.

If you have not received an email and believe you should have, please contact the customer support team. (they are turning some people AWAY! so what happens to them? several victims report call center operators in malaysia AKA Customer support team STILL have no clue)

As we said previously eBay is creating this one-off fund in recognition of the unique circumstances pertaining to these sales. eBay regrets any loss and inconvenience buyers have experienced and appreciates your patience.
(LOL)

Regards
Michelle
The eBay team

Here is one example:

kahluaiceangel
Posts: 11

(55 of 55)
27/05/2010 15:20

Michelle, unfortunately I have not recieved the email re reimbursement of my transaction with these people (transaction id:10J29281N70570059 for the amount of $731.Aud. I rang live chat who referred me to Paypal. I have sent a number of prior posts regarding my account.pls help.

tellomon · « **Reply #95 on:** May 27, 2010, 04:38:35 PM »

Liisa-Sx · « **Reply #96 on:** May 28, 2010, 12:50:10 AM »

I hope the victims do NOT give up, they Do have recourse, contacting the Financial Services Ombudsman (FoS) is one avenue that springs to mind. click on the link below to submit a complaint.
http://fos.org.au/centric/home_page.jsp

Those that used a credit card should be persistant with their banks for a chargeback, ring paypal (speak to a supervisor ONLY) keep on their back, stand your ground.

and.. Contact the media NOW, the newspapers, the TV shows, Radio, it all makes a difference, the more people that do this the more likelyhood of everyone getting their money back, you can't be apathetic in these situations, large numbers cannot be ignored.

Don't give up!!

*CountessA* · « **Reply #97 on:** June 05, 2010, 12:30:47 PM »

Let's keep this one prominent - it's important to keep track of who is contacted by eBay and who is not, who receives a refund and who does not, etc. Not only that, but helping the people who are the victims is a priority.

It is illuminating that a company which knew it was going into receivership continued to take money, and that even the employees didn't know how bad things were. Lesson to be learned: employees can't give you the truth in situations like this because they don't know the truth.

It's highly dishonest to act in this way. It seems the company intended to act fairly (in terms of supply for payment), but it began on a dishonest basis, and that should ring a bell in the minds of anyone intending to deal with them, work for them or have anything to do with them.

1. They were not licenced/registered. They didn't have the right to trade as they were trading.
2. This means from the start they were behaving dishonestly.
3. This means anyone in business with them had the necessary information to cease dealing with them.
4. This is particularly important if anyone in business with them was aware of the requirement to be licenced/registered.
5. eBay WAS aware of this. It's beyond question, since the previous huge holiday collapse brought out this information very clearly.
6. eBay may claim they were unaware of this business's lack of licencing/registration.
7. That does not impact on their duty of care. If they were unaware, they behaved with stupidity and laziness in failing to check, because they're required to do so.
8. That means eBay may be complicit in the company's defrauding of customers.
9. In turn, that means it may well be argued that it's not surprising eBay are claiming that they are setting up a special fund to reimburse customers - to preempt their implication in any legal action.

tommy.irene · « **Reply #98 on:** June 11, 2010, 06:30:46 PM »

Im going

tommy.irene · « **Reply #99 on:** June 11, 2010, 06:31:33 PM »

For the

News:

Author Topic: Another eBay Travel/Holiday Seller bites the dust? (Read 41129 times)

White Witch

White Witch

White Witch