Author Topic: re News Article "eBay buyers fleeced by teenage internet girl"  (Read 88011 times)

*Yibida*

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Re: re News Article "eBay buyers fleeced by teenage internet girl"
« Reply #150 on: June 27, 2009, 10:41:55 PM »
Really Tello this trash should be on your thread ......

tellomon

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Re: re News Article "eBay buyers fleeced by teenage internet girl"
« Reply #151 on: June 27, 2009, 10:46:41 PM »
Really Tello this trash should be on your thread ......

Let's put it there. I'm still in the dark on the sore-spots here. Hope they heal quickly!



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Poddy

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Re: re News Article "eBay buyers fleeced by teenage internet girl"
« Reply #152 on: June 27, 2009, 10:59:16 PM »
Wheelie,

Not Correct, apparently any Joe Blow can create an eBay ID with a fake name and start selling and hope that some buyers get sucked in

Yes you are right, I demonstrated on another thread that there is in existance a legitimate PayPal account in the name of Alphonce Capone, that account is NOT linked to any bank account what so ever.

If you like I can again post the proof

RiffRaff

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Re: re News Article "eBay buyers fleeced by teenage internet girl"
« Reply #153 on: June 27, 2009, 11:02:48 PM »
So, what would be the point of having a PayPal account that is not linked to a bank account when it comes to selling and ripping people off on eBay?

Poddy

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Re: re News Article "eBay buyers fleeced by teenage internet girl"
« Reply #154 on: June 27, 2009, 11:07:34 PM »
Riff,

Ebay use a PayPal account to verify an eBay account and selling fees can be paid from a PayPal account.

Am i correct so far?

RiffRaff

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Re: re News Article "eBay buyers fleeced by teenage internet girl"
« Reply #155 on: June 27, 2009, 11:13:21 PM »
I'm not sure how you pay seller fees without linking the PayPal account to a bank account or credit card?

eBay requires that a PayPal account is linked to an eBay selling account.

Poddy

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Re: re News Article "eBay buyers fleeced by teenage internet girl"
« Reply #156 on: June 27, 2009, 11:19:52 PM »
Riff that is quite simple you can transfer funds between one PayPal account and another.

Am I Correct so far?

RiffRaff

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Re: re News Article "eBay buyers fleeced by teenage internet girl"
« Reply #157 on: June 27, 2009, 11:26:16 PM »
Yes, but if Al Capone ever wants to withdraw funds from any PayPal account, one of them has to be linked to a verified bank account. Incidently, this is why, when a PayPal account reaches a certain level of funds turnover, PayPal are required by Australian anti money laundering laws to verify the idendity of the account holder (regardless of linked bank accounts).

Poddy

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Re: re News Article "eBay buyers fleeced by teenage internet girl"
« Reply #158 on: June 27, 2009, 11:34:29 PM »
Riff what sort of safety measures are in place in this senario?

Al Capone sells non existant goods to the tune of say $5,000.

He then buys good to the value of $5,000 immediatly.

Hasn't he now go $5,000 worth of ill gotten gains?

eBay and PayPal has made it easy for him dont you think?

RiffRaff

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Re: re News Article "eBay buyers fleeced by teenage internet girl"
« Reply #159 on: June 27, 2009, 11:38:50 PM »
But poddy, if the goods are paid for via PayPal, the buyers are covered by PayPal buyer protection. So it then becomes PayPals problem, not the buyers.

imperfect

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Re: re News Article "eBay buyers fleeced by teenage internet girl"
« Reply #160 on: June 27, 2009, 11:40:46 PM »
Paypal holds funds for 21day for new accounts. until the goods are received by the buyers and sometimes for weeks after. The same for old account that have been reactivated after a long break.

Poddy

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Re: re News Article "eBay buyers fleeced by teenage internet girl"
« Reply #161 on: June 27, 2009, 11:45:50 PM »
Riff,

I disagree, by the time Al Capones buyers have relized that they have been ripped off there are no funds in Mr. Capones account so those buyers miss out.

Mr. Capone's seller is ok because he has been paid, Mr. Capone is happy because he has ended up with $5,000 worth of stuff.

Now what if Mr. capone has a whole gang doing the same thing?

*Yibida*

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Re: re News Article "eBay buyers fleeced by teenage internet girl"
« Reply #162 on: June 27, 2009, 11:49:17 PM »
Silly question but ebay has certified ebay trainers..is there such a thing as a paypal qualified trainer ?....I have always wondered....

RiffRaff

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Re: re News Article "eBay buyers fleeced by teenage internet girl"
« Reply #163 on: June 27, 2009, 11:50:57 PM »
Poddy. PayPal will pay out the claim from a buyer regardless of the funds in the sellers account. Please show evidence to that they do not.


imperfect

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Re: re News Article "eBay buyers fleeced by teenage internet girl"
« Reply #164 on: June 27, 2009, 11:51:50 PM »
I was waiting for you.... :( had to clean my own leather off.....

I dont think there is Yib???

Would be a good idea though, I wonder if it is in the ebay training stuff?

Col..is you here????

tellomon

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Re: re News Article "eBay buyers fleeced by teenage internet girl"
« Reply #165 on: June 27, 2009, 11:52:23 PM »
I frequently read on the eBay U.S. boards about PP not living up to their charter.

Here's one now:

http://forums.ebay.com/db2/topic/Seller-Central/I-Just-Got/520131126

You decide what's up widdat!!!

"The B@zturd Love Child of Comix & a News Organization"

imperfect

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Re: re News Article "eBay buyers fleeced by teenage internet girl"
« Reply #166 on: June 27, 2009, 11:54:13 PM »
Guys, if Mr Carpone is trying to re-use the money he just got in his new shonky account he will need to wait till the buyers get their goods from him and are happy, paypal will hold the money, he can't use it....!!!


*Yibida*

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Re: re News Article "eBay buyers fleeced by teenage internet girl"
« Reply #167 on: June 27, 2009, 11:55:48 PM »
I was waiting for you.... :( had to clean my own leather off.....

I dont think there is Yib???

Would be a good idea though, I wonder if it is in the ebay training stuff?

Col..is you here????

You must have been reading my mind IMP !...I must ask Col if paypal was a subject as part of the course?...[ btw I had to get the carpet cleaner back to safeway so it will have to be a hands on job now....LOL ]

RiffRaff

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Re: re News Article "eBay buyers fleeced by teenage internet girl"
« Reply #168 on: June 27, 2009, 11:57:03 PM »
Tello, we have a separate seller protection policy in Aus, which will protect the seller provided they have proof of postage. It does pay out.

imperfect

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Re: re News Article "eBay buyers fleeced by teenage internet girl"
« Reply #169 on: June 28, 2009, 12:02:18 AM »
to be a hands on job now....LOL

Warm water, okies??

Poddy

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Re: re News Article "eBay buyers fleeced by teenage internet girl"
« Reply #170 on: June 28, 2009, 12:04:02 AM »
Easy done.


tellomon

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Re: re News Article "eBay buyers fleeced by teenage internet girl"
« Reply #171 on: June 28, 2009, 12:04:26 AM »
Tello, we have a separate seller protection policy in Aus, which will protect the seller provided they have proof of postage. It does pay out.

OK.
"The B@zturd Love Child of Comix & a News Organization"

RiffRaff

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Re: re News Article "eBay buyers fleeced by teenage internet girl"
« Reply #172 on: June 28, 2009, 12:05:38 AM »
Can't read that poddy.

*Yibida*

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Re: re News Article "eBay buyers fleeced by teenage internet girl"
« Reply #173 on: June 28, 2009, 12:06:50 AM »
to be a hands on job now....LOL

Warm water, okies??


Some hand cream would be nice....jasmine scented of course... :green:

Poddy

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Re: re News Article "eBay buyers fleeced by teenage internet girl"
« Reply #174 on: June 28, 2009, 12:10:08 AM »
Imp,
Are you saying thay if I opened up a new seller account and sold an item I would not get paid until 21 days later and perhaps weeks after that ?

Poddy

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Re: re News Article "eBay buyers fleeced by teenage internet girl"
« Reply #175 on: June 28, 2009, 12:15:51 AM »
It says:-

We were able to recover $60.68 AUD from the seller and processed a refund to you.  -$84.00 AUD




$60.68 was all that was in the sellers account

RiffRaff

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Re: re News Article "eBay buyers fleeced by teenage internet girl"
« Reply #176 on: June 28, 2009, 12:20:13 AM »
Was it your transaction poddy? Was it appealed? What did PayPal tell you?

imperfect

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Re: re News Article "eBay buyers fleeced by teenage internet girl"
« Reply #177 on: June 28, 2009, 12:20:31 AM »
via paypal yes...it happened to a friend of mine, I investigated it for her the sale was for $1,400 she had to wait for over a mth for the money to be relied by paypal, the buyer had to tell paypal he was happy, even then it was 1 week longer...paypal told her it was  safety measure to prevent fly by nighters...

llama

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Re: re News Article "eBay buyers fleeced by teenage internet girl"
« Reply #178 on: June 28, 2009, 12:23:56 AM »
Hi Poddy

Where did you get that info (GIF) from? And how old is it?

The Paypal protection policy was changed when they disbanded Ebay Buyer Protection some 2 years ago. Also, the policies in Australia are completely different to those in the USA, where they have far lower levels of cover.

Poddy

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Re: re News Article "eBay buyers fleeced by teenage internet girl"
« Reply #179 on: June 28, 2009, 12:25:48 AM »
Yes it was questioned and the answere was that what was recoverable was refunded and that no further correspondance will be entered into. Full stop.

Imp, I will put what you have stated to the test tomorrow and report back

imperfect

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Re: re News Article "eBay buyers fleeced by teenage internet girl"
« Reply #180 on: June 28, 2009, 12:30:20 AM »
Ok, be interesting if they do it to you too...she was really pissed about it because she needed the money, the buyer told paypal and still they held the money...she called then three time to let it go..

She was cross at them but understood why when I told her that in the past some shonkies had ripped people off.

I have seen a few members talking about it on ebay.

Poddy

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Re: re News Article "eBay buyers fleeced by teenage internet girl"
« Reply #181 on: June 28, 2009, 12:31:24 AM »
Llama that is less than 2 years old, and I am sure I can round up plenty more where the 'PayPal Protection' fails to live up to what it claims.

But mainly I am trying to illustrate that eBay/PayPay ID verification leaves a lot to be desired, in fact there is NO verification process what so ever.

Poddy

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Re: re News Article "eBay buyers fleeced by teenage internet girl"
« Reply #182 on: June 28, 2009, 12:34:07 AM »
Imp,
If that person had it done to them thay wouldnt it apply to ALL people?
Or is there discrimination between sellers?

RiffRaff

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Re: re News Article "eBay buyers fleeced by teenage internet girl"
« Reply #183 on: June 28, 2009, 12:37:49 AM »
Poddy. Before or after the 17th June 2008? That's the date the current policy started.

*CountessA*

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Re: re News Article "eBay buyers fleeced by teenage internet girl"
« Reply #184 on: June 28, 2009, 12:38:40 AM »
Test case: has anyone here had an experience with an eBay seller who failed to supply, and when you opened a claim in PayPal, the result was that PayPal informed you that the seller only had x amount (partial refund, in other words) while also informing you that the claim was processed under the Buyer Protection Policy?

I've certainly heard of cases where the buyer was informed that only x amount could be recovered, but invariably from what I've heard this was when the claims were processed under the "Buyer Complaint Policy" (the wrong policy applied). When told by the buyer that this was the wrong policy, eventually the buyers received a full refund. However, I do stress "eventually". I know of several instances where the buyers had to be extremely insistent. In one instance, the person mentioned having to shout and get upset on the phone to PayPal, because calm reason got her nowhere. In another instance, repeated requests to speak to a supervisor were denied. The buyers did eventually get through to someone in PayPal who acknowledged that the wrong policy had been applied, and full refunds were issued.

Now, on the subject of bank transfers... the proper course would be to pursue the fraudulent business through the Small Claims Tribunal, but that presents difficulties in the instance of the teenage girl. But read through this - interestingly, minors may be a party to, and bound by, proceedings in a Tribunal as though they are of full age and capacity.

This appears to explain the partial refund mentioned in the article.
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*smee*

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Re: re News Article "eBay buyers fleeced by teenage internet girl"
« Reply #185 on: June 28, 2009, 12:40:09 AM »
Llama that is less than 2 years old, and I am sure I can round up plenty more where the 'PayPal Protection' fails to live up to what it claims.

But mainly I am trying to illustrate that eBay/PayPay ID verification leaves a lot to be desired, in fact there is NO verification process what so ever.

Poddy I dont wish to buy in on the debate as I dont know enough about the ins and outs of paypal to make a valuable contribution but I opened my paypal account in January this year and they verified my account

*CountessA*

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Re: re News Article "eBay buyers fleeced by teenage internet girl"
« Reply #186 on: June 28, 2009, 12:44:09 AM »
Smee, I think what Poddy means by verification (certainly what I would mean by verification) is establishing your bona fides via a 100-point verification as is done in banks. That is, you'd provide proof of identity by things like birth certificate, driver's licence, Medicare card, credit card, telephone bill marked to you at your address, and so on.

PayPal perform their "verification" by depositing two small amounts into your bank account, and you then use those numbers to affirm that the bank account is yours by entering them as though they're a code into your PayPal account.
"No man is an Iland, intire of it selfe; every man is ...a part of the maine; ...any mans death diminishes me, because I am involved in Mankinde"

RiffRaff

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Re: re News Article "eBay buyers fleeced by teenage internet girl"
« Reply #187 on: June 28, 2009, 12:53:23 AM »
I still do not see the difference between verification via a valid bank account and PayPal initiated varification. Both require 100 point ID. You can't withdraw funds from a non bank varified PayPal account so where is the problem?

Poddy

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Re: re News Article "eBay buyers fleeced by teenage internet girl"
« Reply #188 on: June 28, 2009, 12:56:39 AM »
Yes Contessa that is wha i mean by verification, an ID verification.

Paypal on the other hand only verify if a credit card exists, that is the sole extent of the PayPal verification process.

You can go into any post office and buy a 'Gift Credit Card' it is good for 6 months I think, you can spend the cotents of the card except for $1.50 and still have a VALID Credit Card number. which can then be used as 'verification' by PayPal.

Poddy

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Re: re News Article "eBay buyers fleeced by teenage internet girl"
« Reply #189 on: June 28, 2009, 01:01:06 AM »
As I said earlier Riff The funds could be used to purchase saleable goods which would then be sold legitamately.

Goods is Money

RiffRaff

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Re: re News Article "eBay buyers fleeced by teenage internet girl"
« Reply #190 on: June 28, 2009, 01:02:36 AM »
Poddy. Before or after the 17th June 2008? That's the date the current policy started. ???

You may be able to link that type of credit card to a PayPal account for varification but it won't enable you to withdraw funds.

*CountessA*

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Re: re News Article "eBay buyers fleeced by teenage internet girl"
« Reply #191 on: June 28, 2009, 01:03:31 AM »
No, the problem is more complicated than that, and it's why I'm against this piggy-backing verification process.

A very major issue is that Australian PayPal account holders are not obliged to specify an Australian bank. That immediately means the requirement for verification is different to that which you might suppose.

Secondarily, there are situations in which someone who is not the main account holder (or even an account holder) has access to the account. This sometimes occurs with marital couples, for instance. It ought not to occur, but undoubtedly it does.

There are more instances, but I want mostly to point out that when one is, for instance, applying for a new Medicare card, it's not enough to prove that your bank account is yours. You have to go through the 100-point verification system. When applying for a business account with a bank, you're obliged to go through the 100-point verification system, even if you have another account with a bank.

Why are the standards of verification required by PayPal any less?

It's not fair, reasonable or right to rely on second-hand verification that may be out of date with regard to a number of issues very pertinent to being a seller. These include providing proof of address.

"No man is an Iland, intire of it selfe; every man is ...a part of the maine; ...any mans death diminishes me, because I am involved in Mankinde"

Poddy

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Re: re News Article "eBay buyers fleeced by teenage internet girl"
« Reply #192 on: June 28, 2009, 01:03:57 AM »
Riff you keep saying this

PayPal . Both require 100 point ID.

Paypal DO NOT 'initiated varification' especially not of the type you keep saying they do

RiffRaff

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Re: re News Article "eBay buyers fleeced by teenage internet girl"
« Reply #193 on: June 28, 2009, 01:04:04 AM »
As I said earlier Riff The funds could be used to purchase saleable goods which would then be sold legitamately.

Goods is Money


Yes but the buyers are covered by PayPal buyer protection.

RiffRaff

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Re: re News Article "eBay buyers fleeced by teenage internet girl"
« Reply #194 on: June 28, 2009, 01:08:56 AM »
Paypal DO NOT 'initiated varification' especially not of the type you keep saying they do

It does when accounts reach a certain level of transaction frequency or value. I have been through this process.

Poddy

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Re: re News Article "eBay buyers fleeced by teenage internet girl"
« Reply #195 on: June 28, 2009, 01:10:04 AM »
Riff have you not read the many clauses that state that any refund is at the descression of PayPal?

NOWHERE does it state that you are entitled to a full refund regardless of the circumstances

*CountessA*

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Re: re News Article "eBay buyers fleeced by teenage internet girl"
« Reply #196 on: June 28, 2009, 01:11:13 AM »
I see what you mean, Riff - you're looking at this from the point of view of buyer protection in the long run rather than preventing fraud in the first case, I think.

That explains it! *nod* I'm definitely looking at this in terms of prevention. I find it's much easier to hang on my funds than recover them after something's gone wrong.

In my first year of uni, I worked part-time at a certain place - very large informational body. There were many corporate types there. Who'd have dreamed that, while attending a meeting, my purse would be stolen from my bag in a situation from which only a high-level executive could have been the culprit?

Strong suspicion amounting to certainty sadly didn't amount to evidence, and my money wasn't recovered. But that same executive was suspected by others for similar instances of petty theft, and he was later discovered in a highly compromising position by senior staff (a difference infraction, requiring another staff member if you understand me). I never got my money back, but I did see him "encouraged" to resign.

If I'd had some way of protecting my money from the theft in the first place, obviously it would have been better than trying to get it back afterwards.
"No man is an Iland, intire of it selfe; every man is ...a part of the maine; ...any mans death diminishes me, because I am involved in Mankinde"

Poddy

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Re: re News Article "eBay buyers fleeced by teenage internet girl"
« Reply #197 on: June 28, 2009, 01:12:08 AM »
And up until that stage it does not, what is the amount and frequency levels Riff?


RiffRaff

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Re: re News Article "eBay buyers fleeced by teenage internet girl"
« Reply #198 on: June 28, 2009, 01:23:39 AM »
NOWHERE does it state that you are entitled to a full refund regardless of the circumstances Poddy, since the new buyer protection started in June last year, buyers funds are returned regardless of the funds available in the sellers account. I have never seen anything to the contrary.

Countess it is obviously cheaper in the long run for eBay/PayPal to process claims than to prevent some of the fraud. Either way though, it works in the buyers favour.

Poddy

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Re: re News Article "eBay buyers fleeced by teenage internet girl"
« Reply #199 on: June 28, 2009, 01:27:23 AM »
#  Amounts that you may receive under PayPal’s Buyer Protection Policy.

IMPORTANT: For purchases made on www.ebay.com.au there is a maximum discretionary payment amount of $20,000.00 AUD.

PayPal is not obliged to pay any amount at all, or if it does decide to make a payment, to pay the maximum amount set out – you may, at PayPal's discretion, receive a payment which is less than the maximum of $20,000.00 AUD, but PayPal will not pay more than the maximum discretionary amount.