Does eBay cause NEGs on sellers?

[*Brum6y*]

If you had wondered, you can stop now.

The answer is YES - quite emphatically.


Many of you will know I work with a seller, who is quite conscientious about their business (as well as being paranoid about Paypal scams, Feedback and DSRs). They have only ever had one neg - and that was from a buyer that went on a rampage, ripping into a number of sellers over several days. That buyer was ousted and the feedback, quite properly, was removed.

Well that was their only encounter with the red dot - until recently.  Out of the blue, one appears in their feedback - and they were bewildered.

As you would expect, this occurred with a buyer making their first purchase with my seller. It appears that the item the buyer had purchased had been broken by Australia Post (the previous 10 sold to other people made it through over the last year or so). Now, while obviously disappointed at the breakage, the buyer did the right thing and tried to contact the seller - at least twice, I believe - and allowing a reasonable time for a response.

Now, while also annoyed with Australia Post, my seller would have been more than happy to replace the item - except for one small detail: They did not receive ANY of the messages sent by the buyer. The buyer had only used the eBay messaging system.  

Now my seller always includes their direct email address on their invoices - but the buyer did not try that. From what I can gather, the buyer could be a casual user of the internet and (as my supposition) probably stayed within the 'safe' boundaries expounded by eBay.

As you will have gleaned from the above, my seller friend did get in contact with the buyer and has replaced the item - as well as giving them a 'heads up' about eBay's messaging system. The question of feedback revision has been broached, but I don't know where that is at.


But here is my gripe - eBay does everything it can to control communication between buyers and sellers and yet does not ensure that the enforced communication channel is reliable.  As a result, eBay's negligence causes direct and unnecessary negative feelings, feedback and DSRs - AND THEN penalise sellers on the outcomes which THEY precipitated.

My seller checked their standing in the searches - and they had been dropped to the bottom because of this one neg .... and all thanks to eBay - and if the buyer does not revise the feedback, their business will suffer.

Has this happened to you or someone you know?

[tellomon]

*snipe*

Back in the days when I was a Power Buyer, I joined the eBay groups related to Piracy, Scams & Rip Offs.

They had a messaging system. It failed me. Seems what I had to say to the group admins were no-no key words that eBay dint like.

So I gave up on them. Like, talking about the issues would NEVER resolve them anyway.

Soon after, the groups were shut down.

Fancy that?

 

[HellWest'nCrooked]

Brumby ..how often do you know that the ebay messaging system has failed.?  I wasn't aware it was a problem but then I am a very spasmodic  buyer.

Hi Tello

Westie

[shyer]

I find about 1 in 10 messages fail same as about 1 in ten messages I get twice.

Sometimes ebay tells you of failure they are very fond of new message ID number at bottom of email being included in reply.

I also find 9 of 10 questions already answered in listing but since the average ebay buyer has below average concentration , intelligence or education . They can not be bothered reading more than heading.

[*Brum6y*]

Brumby ..how often do you know that the ebay messaging system has failed.?  I wasn't aware it was a problem but then I am a very spasmodic  buyer.

Hi Tello

Westie

Westie - it can be very hard to accurately determine. If a buyer asks a seller a question and it doesn't get to the seller, or the seller's response doesn't get to the buyer, the buyer will simply assume the seller is slack and move on. You will never know - unless the buyer 'hounds' the seller for being slack ... and at least one of those messages gets through.

In the case I cited, some buyers will simply not believe that eBay's system is fallible - and that the seller tried to ignore the problem until the Neg showed up. In that situation, the seller cannot tell if the buyer DID actually send any messages at all and just took the 'rant' option. Credibility has been compromised because of eBay's 'low key' approach on culpability - and the chance of free and open communication to identify what really DID happen at each end is not always possible, especially when the parties are a long distance away from each other.

Fortunately, this buyer simply wanted the broken item sorted out and has so far been quite amiable.  The only thing they could have done more was to email the seller with their direct email address or pull the seller's contact details and call them ... but with a feedback score between 20 - 30, this buyer might not be experienced enough to even think they would need to do that.  After all, eBay is just a wonderful place - just ask JD!

Also interesting is that, from what I was told, it seems the first message the seller sent (through eBay messaging) did not get through either - but they covered that by forwarding their copy of the message to the buyer's direct email account the very next day.


Just for the record, I had a similar issue with the eBay messaging system (non delivery) a year or two back - with a specific case at hand. I contacted Shane (shaneoz) on the matter and he responded asking for specifics and examples - which I forwarded to him. He acknowledged receipt of those details and said he would pass it on to the relevant area.  Heard nothing further and Shane is nowhere to be seen these days.



So, to answer your question accurately, Westie, you would have to get eBay to analyse the stats of their messaging system: Messages sent, messages filtered, messages delivered, etc. - but don't expect this information to ever be released.....

[HellWest'nCrooked]

Thanks guys........perhaps they should call it glitchbay....lol


Westie   

[tellomon]

Unable to care anymore...

[*wheels*]

Brum6y, unfortunately there will be a lot more cases of non-communication between sellers and buyers once eBay implements their latest 'improvement'. The ONLY communication permitted will be via eBay's temperamental messaging system.


New email processes
http://www2.ebay.com/aw/au/201008131421442.html

From 17 August 2010, eBay will be taking steps to reduce the risk of members receiving fake emails to My Messages and personal email accounts.

All members’ email accounts will be made anonymous, allowing both buyers and sellers increased privacy.

Currently you only see a member’s email after the item has sold. From 17 August, both buyers’ and sellers’ email addresses will be hidden pre and post transaction. This change will only apply to emails sent to My Messages and personal email accounts (i.e. Hotmail, Yahoo, Gmail etc).

Ensure that your email addresses are up to date in your eBay account to ensure that you are receiving all of your messages.

[*Brum6y*]

Yes Wheels - that had been pointed out to me earlier today.

It will have to fall back to the 'request buyer/seller details' if communication fails ... or raising disputes.

EBay are slowly strangling themselves....

[Liisa-Sx]

New email processes
http://www2.ebay.com/aw/au/201008131421442.html

From 17 August 2010, eBay will be taking steps to reduce the risk of members receiving fake emails to My Messages and personal email accounts.

All members’ email accounts will be made anonymous, allowing both buyers and sellers increased privacy.

Currently you only see a member’s email after the item has sold. From 17 August, both buyers’ and sellers’ email addresses will be hidden pre and post transaction. This change will only apply to emails sent to My Messages and personal email accounts (i.e. Hotmail, Yahoo, Gmail etc).
 

I fail to see how this is going to stop any fake email messages to personal accounts because MOST people have a dedicated email address from their ISP not a hotmail or Yahoo etc, so if i understand this ONLY people with throw away accounts will be affected and those that have dedicated email addresses will go on as before or will this apply to any and all email accounts?

Ebay exec's run the place like a pack of keystone cops with NO clue and as Brumby stated ebay is moving in ever decreasing circles and will eventually dissappear up JD's own rear entrance..

As always I think this has more to do with Ebay trying to quell off eBay trades and contact rather than any real desire to stop phishing.

[tellomon]

Unable to care anymore...

Cancel that^^^.

[Bellagina]

Hi all...

Ebays message system has now gone beyond a joke.

Yesterday I sold 3 items through the afternoon and evening, and as I rely on the sold email popping into my inbox to inform me of sales, I had no idea they had happened ( I like to respond with a thank you message and details on payment and or postage as quickly as possible)

I only found these sales late last night when I logged in to write up a list of to pack for posting- and found these 3 sales sitting there, 2 waiting on invoices....

NOT HAPPY.

It is bad enough not getting the questions and reply emails but this truely is beyond belief.

[*Brum6y*]

That's a pain, Bella, but at least knowing that, you are able to check and find out from now on.

I know my seller liked to have their email running with the sound turned up ... they could go about their business in the house and hear when something came in.  Now they have to do a spot check every so often too.


It's the questions you don't get (and replies you wonder if got through) that make it infuriating ... especially when a customer gets a damaged item and the seller doesn't find out until they see the neg left from the buyer who had tried twice to contact them (but only through eBay messages).

[*CountessA*]

Is it worth including a mobile phone number in the listing (and also in the invoice)...?

AFTER-SALES HELP: Please don't hesitate to call us on 04xx xxx xxx if you've any problems.
Sometimes the eBay message system can fail to deliver messages, so you are more than welcome
to SMS us or PHONE us with your question or concern.

[tellomon]

In American Business Law, there's this thing called Malicious Business Disruption. It's an "Actionable" Civil Case.

BUST THEIR CHOPS!!!!

Or is that "Willful infliction of emotional distress"?

[*Brum6y*]

I'm sure there would have to be something equivalent in Australian Law... perhaps not as direct, but you would have to hope so.......

What makes it even more insidious is that eBay have requirements on Feedback and DSRs that state a sellers ability to operate on eBay WILL BE IMPACTED if they fall below specified levels - yet eBay have CAUSED these things to occur by restricting communication to their messaging system and then not only failing to provide the level of service necessary but, in some cases, deliberately blocking communication.


This just HAS to be one of the most blatant cases of "Malicious Business Disruption" one could imagine.


Please - anyone with legal contacts .... ask them for chapter and verse of whatever legislation is appropriate.

This situation is OBSCENE!!!

[*Brum6y*]

Is it worth including a mobile phone number in the listing (and also in the invoice)...?

AFTER-SALES HELP: Please don't hesitate to call us on 04xx xxx xxx if you've any problems.
Sometimes the eBay message system can fail to deliver messages, so you are more than welcome
to SMS us or PHONE us with your question or concern.

I think publishing a phone number on a listing is not wise - besides, buyers don't read the details sellers provide as it is - even if it is what's important about their decision to purchase.

Inclusion on the post sale invoice is no guarantee that it will be noticed - but that is, nevertheless, a good place to put it.

On the basis that the item does get to the buyer, you could include a big bright notice and hope that gets noticed.

The problem is, many people have a singular thought on how to approach problem situations - and if they think 'eBay Messages' and nothing else, then you are completely at the mercy of eBay's whims.

[*wheels*]

Yesterday I sold 3 items through the afternoon and evening, and as I rely on the sold email popping into my inbox to inform me of sales, I had no idea they had happened ( I like to respond with a thank you message and details on payment and or postage as quickly as possible)

I only found these sales late last night when I logged in to write up a list of to pack for posting- and found these 3 sales sitting there, 2 waiting on invoices....

Bella, are your eBay emails forwarded to a personal email account, like gmail or yahoo, or are they forwarded to your ISP account? The way I read the eBay announcement is that you will have less problems if your eBay mail is sent to your ISP account.

[tellomon]

Please - anyone with legal contacts .... ask them for chapter and verse of whatever legislation is appropriate.

http://cgi.ebay.com/POSTER-THREE-STOOGES-DEWEY-CHEATEM-AND-HOWE-3-LAWYER-/290307896975?pt=Art_Photo_Images

[tellomon]

Haven't you had enuff?


Samples:
http://blogs.oreilly.com/digitalmedia/2005/05/why-ebay-sucks.html

http://www.botchthecrab.com/replies.asp?index=486

http://forums.ebay.com/db1/topic/New-To-Ebay/Here-Is-Why/510009566

http://forums.ebay.com/db1/topic/The-Front-Porch/Think-The-New/1000493280

http://www.paypalsucks.com/newforums/ebay-sucks/

[tellomon]

I recently received a suspension from eBay, the reason for which is completely unfounded. They have accused me of not paying seller fees when I have never sold an item on eBay.

http://news.cnet.com/8618-1017_3-244398.html?communityId=2001&targetCommunityId=2001&messageId=367882&tag=mncol;tback

[Bellagina]

I have my ISP provider set as my ebay email address, so they have no chance of using THAT as an excuse.

Recently, I started including a note in all my parcels (generally stuck to the bubblewrap around the item) that has my mobile and email address included, with a request that the buyer contact me if there is any problem at all - this is since ebay removed the "have you contacted the seller" warning on them wanting to leave negative or neutral feedback.

If there was any better option to sell on, I'd be there in a heart beat.

[*wheels*]

The all new 'improved' eBay!

On a recent eBay sale:

eBay Note: The buyer left you a note about this purchase. You can view it on the order details page.

Have checked the note section on the order details page and it is blank! Have 'hidden messages' been added to the 'hidden emails' list of improvements?
                           

[*wheels*]

The message has now come through, obviously some eBay glitch.

[tellomon]

~

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