Ridiculous Terms of Sale on auction listings

[*wheels*]

It still amazes me that some sellers sell anything at all with their Terms of Sale. Most of them are empty threats as they are not enforceable. Do you just ignore them and buy anyway if it is on an item you really want?

Buyer must contact me within 36 hours. Payment is required within 48 hours or item will be relisted.

[tellomon]

*snipe*


I quit eBay.

[*wheels*]

Tello, where do you buy your movies from now?

[cueperkins]

Postage rorting remains my favourite biatch...I just won five jewellery auctions from the same seller, I'd emailed ahead asking if she'd combine in one satchel...500 gram satchel that is...she said yes and then when the auctions ended, it was twice that price and then some.....all up she wanted 17.70 to ship a registered parcel under 500 grams?...dreamin.......I sent her the excess postage policy re: actual postage & reasonable handling, and she's still being a total pain over it... so all I could do was report her...what is it about these people...for the sake of ripping me off for 7.00, contrary to previous agreement on postage....she risks getting five negs?....*hopeless*...and she lives within 100kms of me..so postage is not 17.70 for around 200grams max....wonker.

And no wheels, if I see really OTT terms, I don't bid...who needs the headache...Those sellers who say they won't take responsibility for items shipped without rego.....do they realise you can ask for a receipt from Aust Post for regular post and that constitutes proof of postage?....I sold on Ebay for years and always got a receipt for regular post, wrote the addressees name on the back and got the PO to sign....That way, if a parcel goes missing it is Aust Post that is responsible...but if the seller doesn't bother getting a receipt, then in my view, they are responsible for the lost item....The receipt at least enables either party to claim off Aust Post.

[tellomon]

Tello, where do you buy your movies from now?

Amazon.

[*CountessA*]

I don't buy from sellers with, as you so rightly put it, "ridiculous terms of sale". I don't have confidence in them as individuals or as sellers.

When I see that sort of thing on a listing, I just move to the next seller. (And that's only if I can't find the item elsewhere. eBay is now my last port of call rather than my first, as it used to be.)

I can understand sellers being frustrated by time-wasting buyers, but there are better ways of encouraging swift payment than making up such silly and pointless threats about relisting after 48 hours. eBay already peeve a great many buyers with those unnecessary and automatic payment reminder emails. Since I always pay immediately, and I STILL receive those emails, I find them offensive - but I know it's not the sellers' fault! It's eBay... butting in as though with automatic assumptions. Some total smeghead decided those emails would be a good idea.

(Smeghead. Isn't it a terrific insult? Smeahhhhh-hheeeeeeea. Smeaahhhhhhh-hheeeeea. For those who don't understand, you are hereby ordered to watch "Red Dwarf" - specifically when Kryten has just finished having a "Lying Lesson".)

[tellomon]

Pssst!

-----> Amazon!

[cueperkins]

The listings that annoy me the most are those that give one sentence  describing the item and a page & a half of terms and conditions....like do they miss the point?...I'd first like to know the condition, size, and details of the item itself before committing to a page full of terms.  And the other thing many sellers omit to add to these terms and conditions is their policy on 'combining' or handling/packing fees as they are required to do under Ebay's postage policy.  I rarely see a listing that states actual postage and then handling...but often see listings saying 15.00 pre-paid satchel, or $8.00 prepaid satchel....we all know what satchels cost right?...lol

I think Ebay's refusal to police fair trading, fraud and rorting on their site, is what has been the biggest turn off for buyers...you only need to get done over by one shonky seller, and it puts you off buying again, quite so quickly......it's a bit like Russian roulette, and for the majority of good sellers, it's a shame Ebay can't get rid of the rot.

Just take the Postage rorting that goes on...crikey....Since Paypal was imposed on sellers, many have had to resort to putting the fees into the postage price....or....they have to raise the listing price.....but I don't blame the sellers so much for trying to break even...I blame Ebay for creating the culture where it became the norm on Ebay, just so sellers could break even.....The number of sellers who reduce postage when I email saying I'll pay with b/deposit is noticeable....lol

In fact, the more Ebay has imposed itself on the buyer/seller relationship (whilst claiming to be a 'venue only') the worse that same buyer/seller experience has become....

Does anyone remember how good ebay was only 4 years ago? when paypal was a choice, not a mandatory imposition?

[gr8-expectations]

well guess what cupie, now ebay have imposed a rule in some of the book categories where $8.30 is the maximum a seller can charge for postage, a 3 kg express envelope costs $10.90, who pays the difference? not the buyers i can tell you, most are street smart and boasting about their "cheap" wins driving sellers out of business on eBay, the whole system sucks, whenever ebay promote cheap sales with free postage etc. the seller funds their "GENOROUSITY" (sic) every time without exception, plus what about ebay fees? the site traffic is way down but the fees have not dropped in fact the new fees represent a huge pro rata increase on the old.

And what happened to the millions of sellers worldwide affected by 8 hours of outage some 3 weeks ago, eBay have not mentioned it, apologised for it, nor offered any fee credit for lost sales, its a one way street with ebay all the way to their heavy fee coffers in Bern Switzerland.

This latest news that they will place a 21 day hold on new sellers Paypal accounts also sucks - see BNWT - "ebay and the latest media reports" (today)

gets more and more like 1984 each day ....

[gr8-expectations]

sellers are mostly really honest with postage, the majority that is, there will always be some cowboys, the dishonesty comes from ebay itself

[cueperkins]

gr8...that's exactly what I'm referring to Ebay's interference and ineptitude when they are doing it......Postage rorting needs to be policed, and you'll note that I use the actual postage price which is Ebay's policy.....now you and I know what a satchel costs right?....so how do they demand that sellers state actual postage on a policy they refuse to impose but they impose a less than actual cost on items like books ad CD's as a mandatory measure?....it's just all bullshit...they need to firstly acknowledge actual Australian Postage charges and rates, and then ensure sellers don't go over that rate...

It's these rorters I refer to that have allowed Ebay to justify this imposition over postage in books and cd categories...go read their excessive postage policy...and why they imposed it.....

I agree with you that they shouldn't be interfering with you as a seller in imposing a less than adequate shipping fee...and that's the point isn't it? their constant interference with the buyer/seller relationship?.....they only need to enforce the excessive postage policy and that would even things out.....Sellers are allowed to charge 'reasonable' packing/handling but must state and charge ACTUAL postage costs......

when you look at their policy on books, it's not congruent to that policy is it?.....not even actual postage?

[gr8-expectations]

countess there are more than ever time wasting buyers than ever before now, i have tons of respect for those no nonsense pleasant and communicative buyers who just get on with their business and pay properly, dont make ridiculous offers to sellers and who appreciate that it takes a sellers time, effort, skills and financial resources to be on ebay, sadly though they are becoming in the minority now

people dont communicate like they used to, they need to be prompted to do everything, they whinge more than ever about things that are either beyond the sellers control or un justifiable and expect a bargain on every aspect of a sale, what do sellers think? why bother anymore putting quality goods in front of people who want to pay peanuts and yet who would never try it on in a real retail environment, paper tigers many of them hiding behind a computer, if you go into Dymocks for example you cant even buy a decent latest paperback for much less than $19.95 yet i have had wallies offer $10 for a 130 year old book thats rare to boot.

people are becoming unreasonable, and i hate boasting people who crow about their bargains at the sellers expense, they forget they are screwing the little guy and feebay and preypal are laughing all the way to the bank.

[gr8-expectations]

and cupie, Australia Post charges are now out of control, books that used to sell overseas and widen the aust market now get priced rigt out of the ballpark because Aussie post charge so much and looking at postage times to overseas i think times have INCREASED for delivery rather than improved, try sending a heavy book, its outrageous even sea freight is not worth it, not that i ever use it, not much cheaper than airmail given the risks and the fact you have to insure it

a guy in the US bought a book from me recently, it was 800 grams, that cost him approx $31.00 to ship to California, plus the book cost so ended up a $60 purchase, and they dont feedback because they feel burned by the postage cost even if they know its the real cost, we have to have some of the most expensive postage anywhere now

[gr8-expectations]

gr8...that's exactly what I'm referring to Ebay's interference and ineptitude when they are doing it......Postage rorting needs to be policed, and you'll note that I use the actual postage price which is Ebay's policy.....now you and I know what a satchel costs right?....so how do they demand that sellers state actual postage on a policy they refuse to impose but they impose a less than actual cost on items like books ad CD's as a mandatory measure?....it's just all bullshit...they need to firstly acknowledge actual Australian Postage charges and rates, and then ensure sellers don't go over that rate...

It's these rorters I refer to that have allowed Ebay to justify this imposition over postage in books and cd categories...go read their excessive postage policy...and why they imposed it.....

I agree with you that they shouldn't be interfering with you as a seller in imposing a less than adequate shipping fee...and that's the point isn't it? their constant interference with the buyer/seller relationship?.....they only need to enforce the excessive postage policy and that would even things out.....Sellers are allowed to charge 'reasonable' packing/handling but must state and charge ACTUAL postage costs......

when you look at their policy on books, it's not congruent to that policy is it?.....not even actual postage?

yeah and then the seller gets a message when you complain their mantra "ebay is only a venue" i got an email like that the other day, ebay is only GOD more likem they control everything, they are not just a venue

[gr8-expectations]

It still amazes me that some sellers sell anything at all with their Terms of Sale. Most of them are empty threats as they are not enforceable. Do you just ignore them and buy anyway if it is on an item you really want?

Buyer must contact me within 36 hours. Payment is required within 48 hours or item will be relisted.

agree wheels its just wild vernacular, half the time the seller is a decent person and if you are going to take a few more days to pay they work with the buyer, they dont want to lose the sale, have fees coming out and would rather see it through, its pointless putting things like that on your ads, gets a seller nowhere fast, UNLESS the buyer really wants it (rare these days like serious bidding wars due to ebay's corroded image and reputation) in which case they dont give a toss what the seller has on their ad.

[cueperkins]

Well...when you compare Aust Post to Ebay.....what do you get?....two huge monopolies that impose what they want because they have no competition....the only difference is that Aust Post is a Govt. owned and run monopoly....

I agree that postage prices have blown out of all proportion in the past few years....every 6 months they seem to increase or was that just my imagination a few years back.....Satchels used to be around 7.90 weren't they?...3kg satchels....now they're 10.00../...

similarly my household insurance went from 70.00 to 100.00 overnight a few months back, without notice...almost a 50% increase, and now 60% increase on electricity?....are you seeing a pattern here or what?

We're in a recession and the cost of living has never been higher....and it's in every single part of our lives....even LPG....gone up...Austar, gone up, rates have gone up.....where does it end.....??

GR8...you posed something to me recently ....the fact that things are far worse than anyone in the so called 'civilised' world cares to admit.....Is capitalism reaching it's use by date?....how far can the prices keep going in just about every aspect of life? 

[*wheels*]

well guess what cupie, now ebay have imposed a rule in some of the book categories where $8.30 is the maximum a seller can charge for postage, a 3 kg express envelope costs $10.90, who pays the difference? ...

Gr8, you can use the eBay calculated postage and put the correct price in for shipping for heavier books.

[*CountessA*]

These points hit home - I agree with what is being said.

Cupie, excellent comment with "I don't blame the sellers so much for trying to break even...I blame Ebay for creating the culture where it became the norm on Ebay, just so sellers could break even". In my opinion, this is a substantial part of the problem - the culture eBay has created for survival. These are some of the results that I think were spawned from this culture:

• Some ellers trying to comply with eBay's restrictions, taking the loss "temporarily" because they think it will pay off in the long run
• Buyers finding incredible bargains on eBay - and beginning to think they are entitled to paying practically nothing for items worth a substantial amount
• Some buyers revelling in the sudden power of being able to hold bad feedback over sellers' heads
• Some sellers finding out that, like a frog in water that's gradually increased in temperature, they are suddenly in hot water and cannot survive under their existing profit margins, undeserved negs, scams from some buyers, etc.
• Sellers reacting to their realisation that they can't survive with withheld PayPal payments, a high rate of "items not arrived" or "not as described" claims, minuscule profit margins (and in some cases significant losses from 99 cent items which failed to attract a realistic bid) and larger competitors with better placement, lower fees and prominent "Trusted Seller" icons able to snaffle more buyers
• Sellers trying to find a listing strategy that will work for them - and sometimes hiking the postage cost to make up for the item cost being lower in a bid to attract more buyers
• Competitors reporting each other
• Buyers buying items when they know full well they've got an incredible bargain - and planning all the while to mark the seller's stars down because the postage price listed was higher than the cost of the stamps
• Sellers offering free postage on items but increasing the item cost, and buyers complaining there are no more bargains around...

[low-enghooi]

we have to have some of the most expensive postage anywhere now

Hmm. That is quite true.

Take the minimum amount. Registered mail to Malaysia cost A$12.00 (or RM38.00 at the moment). It cost me just RM 8.00 to send registered mail to anywhere in Australia.

Compare dollar to dollar, it is much cheaper to send mail from Malaysia to Australia.

Except for some expensive coins, I usually ask seller to send by regular mail. Very much cheaper, faster (6 working days) and safer.

[*FluffyDuckee*]

Yes I am noticing buyers expecting incredible bargains.  I changed my selling format from auction to mostly BIN with best offer.  This is on brand new items with tags in most cases.  They are always advertised at less than 50% of the tag price.  I am constantly finding buyers sending in offers of say $25 for a new item originally $150 and advertised for $55.  

The main advantage here is that with an auction you have to sell for the price offered.  With a BIN, you don't have to accept the offered price and can counter offer.  I find the counter offers are rarely taken up though.  

Not all buyers do this just the majority, I still find some who find the item at eg $55, know it is a bargain and do a BIN and a few that offer a realistic price, but these are very much in the minority.

[wyzeguy60]

just as a little side issue and not intended to spark a heated debate but as a seller I see postage this way. I send 95% of my items the following way. I am talking about less than 4 coins per parcel.

1 - DP mailer cost = $0.35
2 - actual postage cost under 125 grams = $1.10
3 - mylar ( coin holder ) or coin slips $0.12 each
4 - sticky tape, recycled cardboard, fuel, labels, printing, etc a conservative $0.75
5 - average time to pack parcel + driving time etc = 15 minutes @ a conservative $16 per hour = $3.70

total cost ( in conservative real terms ) = $5.92

I charge $2.00 and have had people mark me down on stars.

go figure

 

[*wheels*]

wyzeguy60, I have bought a few small value coins in the past and have been surprised at the lack of packaging. Most have come wrapped in a piece of writing paper and placed in a plain envelope. And if I remember correctly I was charged around $5 postage!

PS. coinees should probably cover their eyes and not read this - If I can find them I buy coins and glue them into Birthday Cards to add a bit of a personal touch to the card, eg a 1960 coin for a someone turning 50 this year.

[*smee*]

Hey Wheels good idea , but you will be in strife if you send a card to Nanna Centuries

[*wheels*]

 

[low-enghooi]

Hi Dave,

I like the way you pack the coins. Very safe. I actually tells other sellers (some) to pack the way you did, to make sure I receive the coins safely. Hope you don't charge me for telling people to copy your method. 

People who mark you down on stars should be sent for keelhauling!

[*wheels*]

The eBay feedback and DSR system does not work as there are not enough options for buyers to respond to. Have you seen some of bnwt's articles about the trials of new feedback systems in the UK?

Here is a screenshot of one of the versions:
[click to zoom]

[gr8-expectations]

wyzee that would be very disheartening to have that happen when you take all that care, just shows though low noticed and appreciates as i am sure do many others, problem at the moment is the wally % is increasing on ebay, just ignore them and keep up the good work, i tend to over pack would rather do that than have something damaged but it does cost, i dont charge extra or at all either

[cueperkins]

Well, here's another wonk.....I purchased a lot of jewellery, which arrived today... one piece is damaged but not stated in listing.....I went out of my way to make sure the seller replied to me confirming that she'd register the parcel before paying...and as seems to be the norm with the majority of sellers I've dealt with lately...the parcel arrives badly packed and unregistered?  unbelievable....so now I have to muck arse around with the seller getting her to send me back the registration which by the way was 3.00 not 2.70.

Is it because Bank Deposit customers are undervalued on ebay?  Most sellers wouldn't dare send a parcel unregistered with paypal now would they?...most sellers literally threaten you into paying rego in their terms if paying by paypal.....I get a majority of sellers forgetting to register, and have to email before paying to get confirmation and STILL...they fail to register...

Do they care that if Aust Post lose that parcel a bank deposit customer has no bloody recourse?...wonks, shonks and idiots?....and these sellers are the ones that make decent sellers look bad...

[gr8-expectations]

$2.85 kerrection kupie wupe

[gr8-expectations]

thats what they charge me anyway

[cueperkins]

Well it doesn't matter, whatever it costs, I emailed the wonk twice to confirm rego, and she didn't register?...so she can refund it....it's sellers like this that annoy the shite out of buyers...particularly bank deposit buyers...idiots...they don't want Paypal fees but they treat bank deposit customers like second class consumers?....no wonder buyers get fed up...always two sides to a coin...

[gr8-expectations]

those types of sellers give good sellers a bad name and not good that happened especially combined with dud description kupie

[cueperkins]

Trust me gr8, as a buyer using bank deposit I've found this to be the case often.....even with regular post...as a seller for 7.5 years before compulsory Paypal option, I ALWAYS got a receipt for regular post because I know how compensation works.....AP...charge a fee to deliver a parcel but they don't instantly hand out a receipt to prove postage unless you ask for one to be signed with addresses as proof of postage....to that post code...So many sellers don't educate themselves on how to protect their buyers from AP 'Losing'????....parcels?...lol....If they are paid a fee to deliver a parcel i.e. deliver a service, they must deliver.....if you know how to make AP accountable....you don't have to state in your terms that you accept no responsibility, because in obtaining a receipt, you make AP responsible....I used to say in my listings that I obtain a receipt for regular post to safe guard the buyer.....on items under 50.00 that is....

[gr8-expectations]

cupie does a standard receipt work? i think it does because it states postcode for normal post and under $50 i mean? i have never had a claim, but a couple i should have, always gets receipts

[*Brum6y*]

$2.85 kerrection kupie wupe

Current official price for Australia Post Domestic Registered (labels): $2.80 per each or $115.00 for a box of 50.

[*Brum6y*]

Speaking about descriptions ....

I had to track back through my browser history to find this - and I forgot how I got onto it  (It was one of those convoluted curiosity explorations I sometimes venture into on the net.)

These three eBay item numbers are for the same booklet, but the difference in descriptions!!

370313012201

260230359753

200444828771

[*wheels*]

Brum6y, I know which of the sellers I would probably buy from if I was into cross-stitch like you 

Some sellers go overboard with the descriptions and terms of sale but some, like the first two, are just plain lazy with their descriptions.

[*Brum6y*]

I'm not into cross-stitch - I came across this from a 'garden' direction.  Couldn't tell you for the life of me the progression to get to those items, but I saw the first one and was curious as to what was in it - so I looked up eBay and checked out several listings.  The comments on descriptions here reminded me of them.

I did get a latch-hook rug kit once many, many years ago.  Only did the edge and about 10% of the rug.  It's still in the garage, in a box somewhere - but moths have probably long taken care of it.

[*wheels*]

  That's like a jumper that I started knitting. I used to work next door to a knitting supplies shop and the lovely owner offered to teach me how to knit. I got started and used to knit while I was on the train to and from work each day. A couple of months later I left work to go on maternity leave and the knitting needles and wool got stashed away for when I had some 'spare time'. That was 22 years ago and I think they are still in the cupboard somewhere!

[Centuries]

Hey Wheels good idea , but you will be in strife if you send a card to Nanna Centuries

      If the dark, rich, Chocolate cake was a decent size 100 candles would easily fit

Modifythe above re cake. I see it was a card... I am going to sleep now and will dream of cake.

[gr8-expectations]

22 years is a long time .....


The Sandman