Sellers crazy ToS, whats the craziest you've seen.

[Liisa-Sx]

Check out 360167774477 it's a doozy lol

[*smee*]

I wouldnt bid on his items on principal , dont sellers realise the damage that type of terms does to their business ???
It astounds me that he has over 1000 feedback !!!!
actually no it doesnt , some of the buyers are just a silly as the cretin who wrote these TOS .... they deserve each other !!

[*CountessA*]

IF YOU CHOOSE NOT INSURE YOUR POSTAGE AND AUSTRALIA POST LOSES OR DAMAGE YOUR ITEM - I AM NOT RESPONSIBLE AND WILL NOT BE HELD LIABLE – YOU CAN NOT GIVE ME BAD FEEDBACK OR YOU WILL BE REPORTED TO EBAY FOR SOMETHING THAT WAS NOT IN MY CONTROL – YOUR PROBLEM FOR NOT CHOOSING INSURANCE.

My mouth dropped open on reading this! I have an insane vision of a seller foaming hysterically at the mouth and trying desperately to find eBay's phone number so that he can complain. "It wasn't in my control, it's not fair, waah!"

Postage fees may require increase if item packaging increases cost, without debate. Postage Fees are an estimate at time of listing without packaging.

Unbelievable... unbelievable.

YOU MUST LEAVE ME FEEDBACK.

Or... what hideous vengeance shall this seller wreak upon the individual who does NOT leave him feedback?

CHECKOUT completed within 24hrs, Seller may resell your item if payment not received within 2 days of auction end date without notice nor retribution via feedback.

...To the hordes of buyers just waiting to be imposed upon by these ridiculous terms, no doubt. I am sure eBay will agree to waive the 7-day payment terms just for this seller. Oh yes. Yes, definitely. Yes.

ITEMS MAY BE BROKEN AND SUFFER RUFF HANDLING BY STANDARD POST, I CAN’T STOP THIS NOR IS IT IN MY CONTROL.

Mm-hmm. My jaw cannot drop any lower.

He contradicts himself, too. Notice that he says "Postage Fees are an estimate at time of listing without packaging" but then also says "PICKUP NOT POSSIBLE, most items packed prior to auction for shipment." If items are packed prior to the auction, it's a load of hooey to say that the postage fees are estimated without packaging. One or the other statement is a lie.

Seller may resell your item if payment not received within 2 days of auction end date without notice nor retribution via feedback.

I see. Yes. Of course. eBay must have some sort of special arrangement with this seller whereby the buyer is absolutely not permitted to leave negative feedback if the seller is reported as non-performing seller.

While all care is taken, any errors or omission in item description is unintentional.

... And I'd thought it was a deliberate joke.

All postage costs are NOT refundable.

Oh dear, this seller doesn't realise that the buyer is able to do a chargeback for the total amount. It might be harder if it's a PayPal claim because the seller's been cunning enough to say all items are sold "as is", but credit card providers won't let that be an automatic get-out.

I will not hesitate to give BAD FEEDBACK, nonpayment strikes and block any eBay user who bids without payment of purchase and wastes my time and others.

He may not hesitate to give bad feedback, but it won't be on eBay. Oh dear. You know I am in favour of sellers being able to give negative feedback to poor buyers, but this unfortunate individual is an exception.

Take a look at this comment reply to feedback from the seller. It illustrates a seller with whom I would never in my worst nightmare wish to do business.

   very slow bad attutide   Buyer: mykids90 ( 19 [Feedback score is 10 to 49] )
   29-Apr-09 17:32   

    * Reply by dca2311436 (29-Apr-09 20:24):
      BAD BEGINNER, KNOW IDEA HOW EBAY WORKS OR HOW TO SPEAK TO PEOPLE - GET LOST.

And his feedback to this person?

**BAD**BAD - WORST BUYER IN 1200 SALES - OBNOXIOUS, HAS NO RESPECT FOR EBAY *BAD   Seller: dca2311436 ( 1040 [Feedback score is 1,000 to 4,999] )
   10-May-09 14:12

    *   Reply by mykids90 (10-May-09 19:29):
      this person is a snake dont trust them please

    NINTENDO N64 - PERFECT DARK *** GREAT GAME *** (#360148210618)

Does someone feel like contacting the buyer to advise them how to report the seller for giving a false positive?

[Golden Silence]

Actually I almost feel like buying something from this seller just to ignore his ridiculous ToS and tell him he's an obnoxious turd lol.

[daffy]

Or better still dont maliciously purchase from him, just to teach him a lesson, that is just petty. He has a FB of over 1000, obviously some buyers are not deterred by his TOS. It is his ebay account and he can conduct his business in the way that he feels it works best for him.

[*CountessA*]

Hi, Daffy - the seller does seem to have satisfied customers. With such terms of sale, I wouldn't buy from him, but clearly, as you say, some buyers are not deterred.

[*Brum6y*]

It is each buyers choice to buy or not - and while I can appreciate the feeling to want to buy something to 'show' the seller up, I wouldn't risk it for the fallout that may eventuate.  Just not worth the angst.

As for buying from this seller - I would be highly motivated to not touch them, simply because one of my key 'risk assessment' measures is to ask "what sort of response could I get if something goes wrong?".

In this case, it would not be a good one.

The item would have to be something really special to draw any sort of interest from me.


But that's just me.

[Golden Silence]

As I said Daffy, "almost". 

[imperfect]

I guess some sellers do get to a breaking point, it gets frustrating.

He has some good deals though.
 

[daffy]

I do wonder what the point of the original post was? Why would anyone want to publically discredit another ebay seller? Are they competition, do you sell in that category as well? Is that seller also a member here, does he have a right of reply? Would you appreciate having your listings subject to a public critiquing?

Would not the more sensible thing be if you do not agree with a sellers ToS then move on and find a seller that you do want to buy from. If a seller`s ToS are against ebay policy then report the listing to ebay.

[Roo]

I do wonder what the point of the original post was? Why would anyone want to publically discredit another ebay seller? Are they competition, do you sell in that category as well? Is that seller also a member here, does he have a right of reply? Would you appreciate having your listings subject to a public critiquing?

Would not the more sensible thing be if you do not agree with a sellers ToS then move on and find a seller that you do want to buy from. If a seller`s ToS are against ebay policy then report the listing to ebay.

Daffy....I think the whole point of the OP was to point out one of the reasons why people are starting to be turned off by Ebay.

I think the seller mentioned is doing a great job of discrediting themselves... without our help.

If you go back just a few years, those TOS would have been unheard of!

It just goes to show how much mistrust and suspicion that Ebay have managed to instill in both buyers and sellers these days.....and why sales are becoming so slow.

The trust that was built in the early days of Ebay...and which was the founding stone of the company, is being eroded to a point where some sellers are forced to be looking over their shoulders and some buyers have taken on very nasty traits of deceit that their own mothers would be shaking their heads at.

[Liisa-Sx]

I do wonder what the point of the original post was? Why would anyone want to publically discredit another ebay seller? Are they competition, do you sell in that category as well? Is that seller also a member here, does he have a right of reply? Would you appreciate having your listings subject to a public critiquing?

Would not the more sensible thing be if you do not agree with a sellers ToS then move on and find a seller that you do want to buy from. If a seller`s ToS are against ebay policy then report the listing to ebay.

I guess I will have to defend my posting, actually it was not I that found this listing it was actually posted in the Buying and selling section on the Ebay Boards.. if you note in my OP I did not discredit nor berate the seller I merely mentioned it was a Doozy.. in terms of detail, length and if we are going to look closer they did and do flaunt many of Ebay's own rules, again I did not comment on that specifically, my post was ambiguous, I guess Doozy as a term is perceived as different to some.

Ask anyone here I do not ever attack anyone nor do I intentionally post anything intended to offend or interfere....ever.

I am NOT a competitor to the seller in question, in fact I do NOT sell these days, I am an Artist so my line is completely different to the seller mentioned and would have no bearing on the seller whatsoever nor would they have any on what I sell when I do..

Yes the seller is entitled to put whatever ToS they deem fit, I did not say they could not, however again looking at it more finely I will reiterate he does break several Ebay rules, again that is their choice to do so, Ebay is an open public market place.. I see looking at a ToS and discussing it as no different to window shopping B and M stores and discussing amongst friends where the best deals and payment plans lie.

If you found my OP offensive I apologise but it was not my intention, it was merely a discussion and I see nothing wrong with it, again as I stated it WAS posted origionally on the CW boards on EBAY, where far more attention to a particular seller would be drawn.

No I did not reply in the Origional Buying and selling section thread.

In answer to the question, Would you appreciate having your listings subject to a public critiquing?

The answer is Yes, I do my best when I do sell to provide and honest and easy experience for my customers, the same as I would expect as a buyer, if I am doing something wrong I would not mind hearing about it as it would prompt me to seek a better way of doing things.

[cueperkins]

You're right Lisa....amazing that so much can be assumed and then alleged by the mention of one item number and six small words.....quite an imagination eh?

In my view, if the seller puts this information on a public marketplace where members or guests can see it, then they can't very well expect that the public won't discuss, make light of, or criticise it....whether on another public forum, or with friends.

What we each make of the TOS of this seller is our own business...but I think Roo summed it up well.....it is a total put off... some sellers on ebay think they can carry on like slum lords.

[*Brum6y*]

I've only ever sold one thing - and that was ages ago - so I have no seller's axe to grind or competition to guard.

The seller's ToS are public domain, so it would be rather precious for anyone to take exception to any comment made on them - short of libel.

I do wonder what the point of the original post was?
From one perspective, examples of quite ludicrous terms and conditions provide entertainment through their absurdity, especially when compared against merchants who operate with clear marketing principles and within regulatory constraints.

From another, they are classic examples of how not to do it and, as such, are very instructional - illustrating ideas and phrasing that run counter to those marketing principles and regulatory constraints.

Why would anyone want to publically discredit another ebay seller?
Seems the references were only to statements made by the seller - if that results in 'discredit' who is to blame?  The author or reviewer?  Remember, too, that libel and slander laws would constrain what could be said - and I see no risks in this example.

Are they competition, do you sell in that category as well?
Absurdity is reason enough - without trying to find sinister motives.

Is that seller also a member here,...
Don't know... could be.

...does he have a right of reply?
Absolutely - just as long as he abides by the rules here better than he does eBay's.

Would you appreciate having your listings subject to a public critiquing?
Everybody on eBay, Oztion, Trading Post, Etsy, etc., etc., etc. PLUS everybody with a web site PLUS everybody who runs an ad in the paper or on TV or radio PLUS every single flyer, window display or product demonstration is subject to exactly that same critiquing. Just ask marketing and advertising people, website designers or your local shopkeeper.  If someone is so insecure about such public review, then I'd suggest selling would not be a comfortable vocation for them.

Would not the more sensible thing be if you do not agree with a sellers ToS then move on and find a seller that you do want to buy from. If a seller`s ToS are against ebay policy then report the listing to ebay.
That happens, too.  However, while the 'issues' will range from outrageous to subtle, each example is a lesson - and is it not wiser to learn from others' mistakes rather than make them yourself?  (Be bold - and make some new ones of your own!)

[RiffRaff]

Or.........................we could all just tell the truth and say it was posted so we could all have a laugh.

Nothing wrong with that.........................it's bloody funny.   

[*CountessA*]

Liisa, I'm sorry that you believed you had to defend yourself concerning your post. You are valued in the highest degree, and known to be a person of integrity and good humour. I'm not quite sure why anyone could take offence to your post; it does seem that a lot more was read into your post than it ever contained, but I suppose we all feel vulnerable or take umbrage at times without it being necessary. It happens.

 

[*Brum6y*]

Trust you Riff to lay it straight out!

I can see my effort was 'couched' too much for your liking.

[*Brum6y*]

But you are right. 

[Liisa-Sx]

Thank you all in this thread for the input and also please understand, while yes, some of the ToS are amusing, and yes, like anything else in the public domain that seems a tad overboard, it can be deemed as amusing so Riff, your right there.

Secondly to Daffy - you are entitled to your opinion and I do not mind you expressing your PoV in any way, it would be ludicrous for anyone to expect we all had the same viewpoint, so I respect that, all I ask in return is that I am respected for my viewpoint and allowed the good grace to express it also without too much being read into it above what I state in my posts.

I do not take offense at your reply daffy but I did feel th eneed to set the record straight regarding the allegations I was a competitor etc.

Respectfully
Liis

[daffy]

My apologies Lisa. You did not critique him, I agree, but by bringing his item here you opened it up for others to do so and they did.

I do not read the ebay boards. It is sad that now that seller has been brought to the attention of 2 forums. Was the original post on ebay because he had done the wrong thing by a buyer?

I often wonder what the background is to many sellers; are they struggling with trying to make an income, perhaps they are physically disabled and ebay is a good source of providing them with independence. Maybe they have sick children or spouses and are unable to work to gain a regular income. Maybe they are struggling with life in general.  So many variables and no one knows who is behind that screen. Nor do people realise how an innocent thread may damage someone`s potential income, their self esteem, other factors.

So yes, I do get upset when I see people being villified without just cause. If he was a bad seller and a buyer brought it to the boards, different situation. His feedback is good, he seems to have many happy buyers!

In this case (if no buyer did have a complaint) maybe to message him and suggest that perhaps his terms of service were not very buyer friendly and make some suggestions would be the better course. If you do consider his ToS do not meet ebay policy, report him, they will then inform him to change them to meet policy.

"Would you appreciate having your listings subject to a public critiquing?
Everybody on eBay, Oztion, Trading Post, Etsy, etc., etc., etc. PLUS everybody with a web site PLUS everybody who runs an ad in the paper or on TV or radio PLUS every single flyer, window display or product demonstration is subject to exactly that same critiquing. Just ask marketing and advertising people, website designers or your local shopkeeper.  If someone is so insecure about such public review, then I'd suggest selling would not be a comfortable vocation for them."
That is a cop out. Morally that does not give everybody the right to internet bash another person. Do unto others...

[*Brum6y*]

You call it a moral cop-out.

THAT claim is a cop-out.

The reality is that every public presence of person, product, advertising or anything you could name is open to critique - some good, some bad.

If you don't think someone says something negative to someone else when you step out into public view dressed in a way that they abhor at least as often as they say something positive when you step out looking resplendant - then you are kidding yourself.

Criticism is a fact of life and since there are laws covering malicious expressions - namely LIBEL and SLANDER - even the legislators acknowledge that criticism is a part of life, but one that has limits.

It is true that a seller may be in difficult circumstances - but, from my experience, those people are usually the ones that are some of the nicest you could ever meet.  Perhaps even one of the factors for them being in their predicament - they are just too nice to 'play hard ball' or 'impose' on others. 

The terms and conditions that each seller publishes are a reflection on themselves - and when someone puts out strong, abrasive and/or non-compliant block of text, it paints more of a picture of an arrogant personality.

Usually, they are adequate as a seller when it all goes well - which usually happens most of the time - and I put it to you that most buyers wouldn't read or take a lot of notice of the ToS, but buy anyway.  It's when things go wrong that the problems show up.

It's when things go wrong that I'd like to be prepared for.

Daffy, you seem to think that just because his feedback is 'good' that he is a good person and that his terms and conditions are above reproach.

To me, that is very narrow and flawed thinking.  If nothing else, his ToS should be a warning.


You have to remember, the comments here are in RESPONSE to text the seller has published THEMSELVES. Nobody here invented it or changed it. It has not been taken out of context and is being discussed WITHIN the context of online commerce by people who have gone out of their way to provide an open forum to speak freely (within legal constraints).


If that seller were to walk onto a TV chat show wearing a clown suit, with a blow-up pool pony around their waist, a bubble machine in their hat with a propeller on top and throwing jelly everywhere - would we be wrong in laughing if they slipped and fell?

 

[ernest_price]

Interesting thread. Btw - Hi Margo!  8)

[daffy]

interesting analogies Brumby

If that seller were to walk onto a TV chat show wearing a clown suit, with a blow-up pool pony around their waist, a bubble machine in their hat with a propeller on top and throwing jelly everywhere - would we be wrong in laughing if they slipped and fell?   would he have those big floppy shoes on and a big red nose? What colour is his clown suit?

If you don't think someone says something negative to someone else when you step out into public view dressed in a way that they abhor at least as often as they say something positive when you step out looking resplendant - then you are kidding yourself. and I would expect it to be talked about on a forum, freedom of speech and all.

The terms and conditions that each seller publishes are a reflection on themselves - and when someone puts out strong, abrasive and/or non-compliant block of text, it paints more of a picture of an arrogant personality. or a person who has had to fight and struggle and figures they will get in first before they are again done over. You can not assume to know this persons personality.

It's when things go wrong that I'd like to be prepared for.

Daffy, you seem to think that just because his feedback is 'good' that he is a good person and that his terms and conditions are above reproach.

To me, that is very narrow and flawed thinking.  If nothing else, his ToS should be a warning.

They are not above reproach, link to where did I say that? I will say it again, message him suggesting his ToS are not buyer friendly. If you do not agree with his ToS do not buy from him, move to the next seller. if they are against ebay policy report him

You have to remember, the comments here are in RESPONSE to text the seller has published THEMSELVES. Nobody here invented it or changed it. It has not been taken out of context and is being discussed WITHIN the context of online commerce by people who have gone out of their way to provide an open forum to speak freely (within legal constraints).

Oh please! take the tickets off. An open forum to speak freely (when that suits) the other day I started a thread about the registration page, it was suggested that I was dyslexic and I should not have started the thread but email admin instead. The issue was real and related directly to our experiences HERE, but it ended in a bum fight as many choose to read more into it than what there was. You can not have it both ways. I had a real issue with something here ... no one here has had a real issue or dealings with this seller but he was considered worthy enough to discuss.
His ToS could have been copied and posted without a direct connection to his listings and ultimately his ebay members name. It is wrong and if under the guise of discussing ecommerce (guwaff) you can not see this, we just have to agree to disagree. Morally I think it is wrong, you do not.

Edited - private information removed by moderator

[*Yibida*]

Who's in charge of the entertainment around here?...I've seen this show before...


                     

[imperfect]

[*Yibida*]

[imperfect]

Yib, it's for you....

[*Yibida*]

Hello?....

[daffy]

Or.........................we could all just tell the truth and say it was posted so we could all have a laugh.

Nothing wrong with that.........................it's bloody funny.   

[ernest_price]

No matter how many ID's people still post the same way eventually. Amusing.

[*Brum6y*]

Love the cat, Imp. 

[Liisa-Sx]

Ok so this one is NOT the worst ToS and the Seller is I think we can safely assume having a tongue in cheek dig at Ebay lol, it's pretty funny.

http://cgi.ebay.com.au/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=310156854184&ru=http%3A%2F%2Fshop.ebay.com.au%3A80%2F%3F_from%3DR40%26_trksid%3Dm38%26_nkw%3D310156854184%26_sacat%3DSee-All-Categories%26_fvi%3D1&_rdc=1

[ernest_price]

How many points do I get if I ask the seller a question like "Do you ship to Ausrilia?"

[*barny*]

HHmmmm,

Liisa, I have an 1897 Morgan dollar in uncirculated condition... It is in a case with a matched 1997 Silver Eagle dollar...

These are beautiful coins in Uncirculated condition....

 

[mandurahmum]

 310156854184 - I dont know about crazy - but amusing

[*CountessA*]

That's wonderful! Mandurahmum, you've given me such a smile by posting that item number - and I needed it after a horrible few days.

That seller clearly has an ironic sense of humour.

[Liisa-Sx]

310156854184 - I dont know about crazy - but amusing

Yes that's the one I posted further down, I think I like that seller lol

[Liisa-Sx]

Ok this one made me laugh....... a LOT lol       

270436640793

His disclaimer is hilarious.

FINAL DISCLAIMER

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