Seller claiming no PayPal account

[Golden Silence]

Long story short (and I only found out last night so some info could be missing).

1. Daughter buys game 2 weeks ago, pays immediately with PayPal
2. Hears nothing so last week emails seller asking if it has been sent as she needs it for brother's birthday (yesterday)
3. Seller replies saying it will be sent when it's paid for
4. She emails back saying it was paid immediately via PayPal
5. Seller emails again saying she doesn't accept PayPal and has no account
6. Daughter emails seller saying she does have an account and her money is in it. She also emails eBay.
7. At time of typing this, she is waiting to hear back from both.

Question is: What is her best option now?

[*CountessA*]

This is a horrible situation, because the seller probably feels she shouldn't need to accept PayPal, while your daughter feels she should be able to pay by PayPal.

As sympathetic as I am to the seller, the cold hard fact is that unless one has a PayPal account on eBay, one is in a very equivocal position as a seller - since eBay flatly state that all sellers must accept payment by PayPal (for most types of transactions). That I think this is unfair is beside the point... It's hard to think the seller was unaware of the requirement to accept PayPal payments.

Is this a new or inexperienced seller?

At any rate, this is the situation: your daughter has paid money to an email address which she assumed to be a PayPal account. That doesn't mean the email address does have a PayPal account attached to it: that's simply the default email address which eBay treats as if it were a PayPal account in lieu of another email address being entered as the PayPal account.

The money is thus unclaimed, hovering in The Great Wastelands.

The seller can set up the PayPal account and claim the payment, and would in fact be well advised to do so because failure to accept payment by PayPal leaves sellers open to reports as a non-performing seller. That can and will lead to the seller's eBay account being sanctioned, leaving her unable to sell (and possibly unable to buy).

But if your seller flatly refuses to get a PayPal account, your daughter can't force her to do so. (Neither can eBay. They can sanction her eBay account but they cannot make her have a PayPal account.)

How trustworthy does the seller appear? What's her feedback like? Will your daughter prefer to cancel the transaction without reporting the seller? Will your daughter prefer to report the seller? Would she prefer to buy the game from a different seller?

The best option will be dependent on what your daughter wants to achieve. If the game is better value from this seller than from others sellers, and if the seller's feedback as a seller indicates she's trustworthy, that's one option - for your daughter to cancel the unclaimed payment (by going to her PayPal account) and then paying again via bank transfer. However, if your daughter doesn't feel trust in the seller, she may decide that's not advisable, particularly if it's a large amount of money.

At any rate, your daughter is probably best off cancelling the PayPal payment because it doesn't seem as though the seller is going to open up a PayPal account. Then it's up to your daughter about whether or not she wants to report the seller... whether or not she wants to pay by a different method... and so on.

[*barny*]

I have no sympathy for the seller..

The rules of eBay are that all sellers must accept paypal.... If you don't like the rules

a) get them changed
B) don't sell on ebay

If I was the buyer I would start a INR dispute to get my money back... And I would send copies of the communications to eBay..

After getting my money back, I would probably nuke the seller too.

 

[col52]

The best option will be dependent on what your daughter wants to achieve. If the game is better value from this seller than from others sellers, and if the seller's feedback as a seller indicates she's trustworthy, that's one option - for your daughter to cancel the unclaimed payment (by going to her PayPal account) and then paying again via bank transfer. However, if your daughter doesn't feel trust in the seller, she may decide that's not advisable, particularly if it's a large amount of money.

You know I'm a supporter for bank deposit (though I do use Paypal and have done since I registered with ebay back in the 90's). However, when a seller is dishonest enough not to include a valid Paypal account, I do not feel as though they can be trusted sufficiently to make a bank deposit payment - sorry. I dislike being forced to accept Paypal but at the moment we must, if we wish to sell via ebay (though the sales are less than a couple of years ago).

I would be disputing for non receipt. Then, once that is completed, purchase elsewhere - even if the one I "purchased" was cheaper.

[*CountessA*]

The buyer doesn't have to start an INR dispute to receive back her money. She only has to cancel the PayPal payment. Of course, she can indeed start that dispute and prove that she has initiated payment via Paypal - that's the buyer's choice.

I make a distinction between people who don't want to offer PayPal because they want to defraud (shonky! shonky! shonky!), and people who don't want to offer PayPal because they don't want to BE defrauded... or can't afford to offer PayPal... or are afraid to offer PayPal.

If I were selling on eBay, I would not do what this seller is doing. Granted, it's neither compliant with eBay's guidelines nor wise. All the same, I'm not going to make things harder for people who are probably struggling to survive. Online retail has been seriously hit, and I try not to step on people who are already down.

If I were the buyer in this case, I'd go through the process of having the purchase mutually cancelled, then cancel my PayPal payment, make sure the seller is aware of what COULD have happened (INR claim, NPS report, etc.) and suggest that the seller decide whether selling on eBay is wise for the future. I would suggest the seller decide either to continue selling but to accept PayPal, or to sell elsewhere where PayPal is not a requirement.

The buyer is within her rights to go through the INR route. It wouldn't be my way of handling it. Each person will no doubt choose different ways of dealing with such things.

[col52]

I know "where you are coming from" Countess. My problem, with this seller (as I see it - though not all facts are here, of course) is that communication stopped. A bad situation, if I were the seller in this case I would have tried to ease the situation in some way (after being notified I was "breaking the rules" - if that is indeed what happened). My initial thought would be to offer the mutual cancellation if I did not wish to continue with the sale. However, that would leave me with the item and not being able to list it again on ebay (as I had been made aware I was doing the wrong thing - in ebay's eyes anyway).

Many different ways of handling it but I do feel that the seller has not tried to solve it in this case and is not helping themselves by being in stalemate so to speak.

[*CountessA*]

I agree - I definitely agree, Col.

The seller has not helped her situation in the slightest, and she's making a very bad impression on the buyer.

[col52]

So, do we do as barny suggested and nuke 'em? 

[Golden Silence]

I'm sorry I had to ask and run, the past couple of days have been horrendous but that's another story.

Thankyou all for your replies. Unfortunately I haven't had a chance to catch up with my daughter to find out any more details (we've both been working round the clock and are ships passing in the night at the moment) but I'm hoping to be able to sit down with her tomorrow and go through everything in more detail and pass on these options.

I must admit though, the way I'm feeling at the moment I do like the idea of nuking something (or someone) lol.

[Golden Silence]

Hmm well I just caught up with her and gave her all the options and to say she's fed up would be an understatement (I think if it hadn't been for a birthday present she'd be less upset). She's just opened an INR dispute so we'll see what happens.

Thanks again.

[daffy]

That is the best course GS, the seller should not be selling on ebay if they will not adhere to ebay`s terms ( ie Paypal) That automatically raises a red flag as to the trustworthyness of the seller.

[Golden Silence]

Yes I suppose so. Personally I'd probably be a little more hesitant in taking that course but then again, I've never been in that situation.

Fingers crossed.

[*CountessA*]

Golden Silence, any further news on this? Has the seller responded at all to the INR dispute?

[Golden Silence]

Countessa, not a single word. I've never been through this process so have no idea what she's to expect either.

[*Brum6y*]

There are some time limits for responses - but I get the feeling these limits will be reached before a response is given, in which case patience is called for.

[*CountessA*]

Golden Silence, has your daughter reported the seller as a non-performing seller? The lack of communication from the seller and the lack of desire to address the problem is particularly worrying. It really does sound as though this is a bad seller.

The eBay page discussing this is here.

What buyers can do if they believe a seller has violated the Seller Non-Performance policy

If a seller has refused to complete a sale and payment hasn't been sent, or has been refunded, report the seller to eBay. Include a copy of the email documenting the seller's refusal to complete the sale with the full message text and complete email headers with your report.

After receiving a report, eBay will consider the circumstances of the alleged offence. If appropriate, eBay will take action against the seller. Due to privacy issues, eBay will be unable to discuss the result of the investigation.

If a buyer has paid for an item but has not received the item or a refund, or believes the item was significantly misrepresented, they should refer to the eBay Item Not Received or Significantly Not as Described process.

Buyers can also use eBay’s Feedback system to leave comments and detailed seller ratings regarding their satisfaction with a transaction.

I think in this case there's not much choice but to report the seller. Use the link above (here it is again). I hope your daughter has kept all the email communications she has had with the seller. She should keep a record of all communications, and all the payment information (she should note the transaction number, take a screenshot of the PayPal page where it shows the payment is unclaimed, etc). She can cancel the PayPal payment immediately within her Paypal account - this will be by far the fastest way to get her money back. She will still have proof of having paid, as long as she has records showing the seller has refused to claim the payment, and in email or message has stated she won't accept the PayPal payment.

[Golden Silence]

Luckily she's much more patient than I am Brumby so I think she'll be able to handle that lol.

Thanks for the links Countessa. I did read all the rules and regs ages ago but had forgotten a lot so a refresher was needed.

She hasn't reported for NPS, just the INR and from the quick 5 minute chat I had with her last night, I'm pretty sure she said the transaction appeared to be complete and she couldn't see anywhere to cancel the payment (I'd have to double check that). I do know she has kept all corresponence but I doubt she's taken screen shots so I'll give her a heads-up on that.

Thanks again.

[Golden Silence]

Just a very quick update...

Money was refunded mid last week. There was no response to the INR nor did she personally hear anything from the seller so case closed and all's well that end's well.

[Bazinga]

now all she needs to do is leave feed back reflecting her level of satisfaction.

[*CountessA*]

Night-Hawk, how tactfully put! *grin*

[Golden Silence]

lol I forgot about that. I'll have to ask her if she's left any.