Author Topic: PayPal and Anti-Money Laundering & Counter-Terrorism Financing Laws  (Read 17481 times)

*CountessA*

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How do the new Anti-Money Laundering and Counter-Terrorism Financing laws impact PayPal and you?

New Anti-Money Laundering and Counter-Terrorism Financing (AML/CTF) laws were passed in Australia in December 2006 and have been gradually phased in since then. The introduction of the laws are aimed at bringing Australia into line with international AML/CTF standards which are designed to combat money laundering and terrorism financing, and assist law enforcement to identify criminals.

The laws impact all financial institutions (including PayPal Australia), as well as other sectors such as the gambling sector, real estate agents, jewellers, solicitors, accountants and bullion dealers.

How is PayPal Australia affected?

PayPal is required to verify the identity of account holders whose transactions reach a specific level. PayPal may also be required to report some transactions.

Will I be affected as a PayPal customer?


Not all PayPal customers will be impacted. Only those who have signed up for an account since 12th December 2007 and reach a certain transaction level will be asked to verify their identity.

Being asked to verify your identity does not mean that you are considered to have taken part in any illegal activity; it simply means your account has reached the designated transaction level.

How will you verify my identity?

Initially we will attempt to verify your identity electronically via a third party provider, and may request you log-in to your PayPal account and securely review or update your existing information. If we cannot verify your identity electronically, we may ask you to fax or file upload certain identification documents to our Customer Service Centre.

Note: Please be on the lookout for emails pretending to be from PayPal and never reply directly to emails asking you to respond with passwords or personal information. The safest way is to type in www.paypal.com.au in your browser and log-in as per normal.

What happens if I do not respond to the request to help verify my identity?

Once your account reaches the designated transaction level, we are legally required to place a low restriction on your account which will prevent you from making payments and withdrawing funds. This will remain in place until we are able to verify your identity. You will however, still be able to receive funds into your account.

If you do not respond within 45 days, this restriction will be escalated to a full restriction and you will not be able to make payments, withdraw funds or receive funds.

How will I know if I need to provide additional information or documentation?


We will place an alert on your account and also send you an email.

How is my identity protected?

PayPal Australia is subject to the Privacy Act 1988 (Privacy Act). The Privacy Act regulates the collection, use, disclosure, quality and security of personal information.

If you require more information on how your privacy will be protected by PayPal, please view our Privacy Policy.
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tellomon

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Re: PayPal and Anti-Money Laundering & Counter-Terrorism Financing Laws
« Reply #1 on: September 21, 2009, 12:41:50 PM »
What? Are we supposed to comment, or just say "Oh" & move on?
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*CountessA*

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Re: PayPal and Anti-Money Laundering & Counter-Terrorism Financing Laws
« Reply #2 on: September 21, 2009, 12:50:24 PM »
Comment.

Particularly comment in light of the relevant legislation.

Is the legislation TRULY asking PayPal to withhold funds...?
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Re: PayPal and Anti-Money Laundering & Counter-Terrorism Financing Laws
« Reply #3 on: September 21, 2009, 12:53:19 PM »
Westpac's page on the subject is here.

Westpac
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Back to: Anti Money Laundering
Anti-Money Laundering and Counter-Terrorism Financing - Westpac Group Policy
 

    * Introduction
    * Scope
    * Definitions
    * Principles
    * Key roles and responsibilities for using this policy framework


Introduction

Intent
The Westpac Group aims to prevent, detect and not knowingly facilitate money laundering and terrorism financing. Westpac does this to protect the Group's reputation, to comply with relevant laws and to be a good corporate citizen. This policy forms part of our overall Environmental, Social and Governance approach. Westpac also aims to comply with anti-money laundering (AML) and counter-terrorism financing (CTF) law in a way that complements business priorities.

The purpose of this policy is to:

    * Make employees, contractors and third parties aware of the meaning of AML and CTF
    * State the Group's attitude towards money laundering and the financing of terrorism
    * Outline the key roles and responsibilities of the Group's employees, contractors, third parties and business units in relation to AML/CTF
    * Document requirements of Anti-Money Laundering and Counter-Terrorism Financing Act 2006, which replaces over time the requirements of the Financial Transactions Reports Act.

Risk of facilitating Money Laundering or Terrorist Financing

Westpac faces significant risk if it (or its employees) knowingly facilitate or fail to put in place the appropriate training, processes and systems to prevent the facilitation of money laundering or terrorist financing.

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Scope
This policy applies to all Westpac Group employees, secondees, contractors and people on work experience in Australia, New Zealand, the Pacific and other overseas offices (called "employees and contractors" in this policy).

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Definitions

Money Laundering
Money laundering is the process by which criminals use the financial system to hide the proceeds of crime, turning "dirty" money into "clean" laundered money. Criminals undertake money laundering in order to reduce the risk of detection and confiscation by the authorities.

Money laundering is just as serious as the underlying crimes that generate the money that is laundered. For example, criminals are less likely to engage in drug trafficking if they are unable to profit from it financially in a way that avoids detection. Preventing money laundering, therefore, can help prevent drug trafficking.

Terrorism Financing
Terrorism financing differs from money laundering in two ways:

    * Very small sums of money can do very large amounts of damage in the hands of a terrorist. For example a bomb that costs a few thousand dollars to make can kill and cause billions of dollars damage.
    * Although terrorists may finance their activities through crime, particularly fraud involving stolen cheques or fake or stolen credit cards, legitimate funds can also be misappropriated for terrorist financing.

These attributes of terrorism financing show the importance of reporting all suspicious activity, even if the sum of money involved is relatively small.

Suspicion
Having a 'suspicion' means that we suspect that a customer is using or seeking to use our financial products or services (referred to as "designated services" in the Australian AML/CTF legislation) to launder money or finance terrorism and one of the following conditions is met:

    * We suspect on reasonable grounds that the customer is not the person they claim to be
    * We suspect on reasonable grounds that an agent of the customer is not who they claim to be
    * We suspect on reasonable grounds that information Westpac has concerning the provision or prospective provision, of a designated service
          o May be relevant to investigation of, or prosecution of a person for evasion, or an attempted evasion, of a taxation law
          o May be relevant to investigation of, or prosecution of a person for evasion, or an attempted evasion, of a law of a State or Territory that deals with taxation law
          o May be relevant to investigation of, or prosecution of a person for, an offence against a law or the Commonwealth, or of a State or Territory
          o May be of assistance in the enforcement of the Proceeds of Crime Act 2002 or regulations under that Act
          o May be of assistance in the enforcement of a law of a State or Territory that corresponds to the Proceeds of Crime Act 2002, or regulations under that Act
    * We suspect on reasonable grounds that the provision, or prospective provision, of the service is preparatory to the commission of an offence connected to financing of terrorism
    * We suspect on reasonable grounds that information Westpac has concerning the provision, or prospective provision, of the service may be relevant to the investigation of, or prosecution of a person for an offence connected to financing of terrorism
    * We suspect on reasonable grounds that the provision, or prospective provision, of the service is preparatory to the commission of an offence connected to money laundering
    * We suspect on reasonable grounds that information Westpac has concerning the provision, or prospective provision, of the service may be relevant to the investigation of, or prosecution of a person for an offence connected to money laundering.


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Principles
The principles governing the Group's approach to money laundering and terrorism financing are:

We will maintain an AML/CTF program as required by the AML/CTF Act. This means we will:

    * Have and comply with an AML/CTF program
    * Implement processes designed to identify, mitigate and manage the risk we may reasonably have that the provision of designated services by us, might (whether inadvertently or otherwise) involve or facilitate money laundering or financing of terrorism
    * Implement applicable customer identification procedures for our customers.

We comply with the law and aim for best practice:

    * We comply with national AML/CTF laws in the countries in which we operate, and have regard to international best practice as detailed, for example in the recommendations of the Financial Action Task Force (FATF)
    * We work in conjunction with the Australian Government, and the governments of any country in which we operate, and support these governments' objectives in relation to prevention, detection and control of financial crime.
    * We will refuse to enter into relationships with shell banks.

We take a risk-based approach:

    * We train our employees and contractors to be alert to money laundering and terrorism financing risks
    * Our systems, procedures and training are developed to take account of the differences in AML/CTF risk in the countries in which we operate
    * Due diligence processes for customers are tailored according to our analysis of the AML or CTF risk associated with those customers (or customer groupings) and the designated services, geographies or channels involved
    * We check relevant transactions, including by referring to world-wide terrorist lists, in accordance with the Suppression of Financing of Terrorism legislation
    * We conduct research into money laundering and terrorism financing risks. The output of this research is used for internal training and monitoring customer activity
    * We assess the risks of our products, and monitor the activity of our customers using a risk-based approach.

We adopt a centralised model (where appropriate):

    * For AML/CTF purposes Westpac will operate as a Group and will establish a Designated Business Group (as permitted by the AML/CTF legislation) to adopt standard processes where appropriate
    * For AML/CTF purposes Westpac will adopt consistent tools for performing all risk-based assessment (i.e. a single Risk Assessment Model will be used by all business units to segment customers into ML/TF risk categories).

We identify customers in accordance with the current legislative requirements in the countries in which we operate.

We act on our suspicions:

    * We report any suspicious matters or activity to the appropriate authorities in a timely and comprehensive manner, as required by local laws or our own policy, which ever provides the greater standard.
    * We will refuse to enter into business relationships where we suspect that the Group's products or services might be used for illegitimate purposes. We will not provide the reason to the customer to avoid tipping off the customer.


We maintain a high standard of record keeping to assist in the investigation of money laundering and terrorism financing. For example, when responding to an official police request, providing clear and complete copies of records could help locate a suspect and prevent a terrorist attack.

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Roles and responsibilities for using this policy

Westpac Banking Corporation Board of Directors (the Board) and Westpac Senior Management have ongoing oversight of our AML/CTF policy and procedures.

Employees and contractors must comply with the AML/CTF policy and procedures, report suspicious matters or behaviours and attend training as required for their role.

We have also appointed an AML Officer (referred to at Westpac as Money Laundering Reporting Officer - MRLO). The MLRO is the nominated person who will support and coordinate senior management focus on managing the money-laundering / terrorist financing risk in individual business areas. The MLRO will also help ensure that Westpac's wider responsibility for forestalling and preventing money laundering / terrorism financing is addressed centrally, allowing an enterprise-wide view to be taken of the need for monitoring and accountability.

We have also established a Group AML Unit that provides advice and specialist support to Compliance, business units and the MLRO to enable them to fulfil their responsibilities in the policy framework.
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*CountessA*

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Re: PayPal and Anti-Money Laundering & Counter-Terrorism Financing Laws
« Reply #4 on: September 21, 2009, 12:54:06 PM »
... from the Australian Government website:

Anti-money laundering

Do you have questions about the new anti-money laundering and counter-terrorism financing laws? For more information go to the Information for Customers page.

Anti-Money Laundering and Counter-Terrorism Financing Measures

The anti-money laundering and counter-terrorism financing (AML/CTF) reforms are aimed at addressing the risk of money laundering in Australia and the threat to national security caused by the financing of terrorism.

The reforms seek to implement Australia’s international obligations including a commitment to bring our AML/CTF regime in line with the international standards as set out by the Financial Action Task Force on Money Laundering (FATF).

A new legislative framework has recently been put in place through the Anti-Money Laundering and Counter-Terrorism Financing Act 2006. This first tranche of reforms covers the financial sector including banks, credit unions, building societies and trustees and extends to casinos, TABs wagering service providers and bullion dealers.

The second tranche of reforms will cover real estate agents, dealers in precious metals and dealers in precious stones and a range of non-financial transaction provided by accountants, lawyers and trust and company service providers.
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*CountessA*

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Re: PayPal and Anti-Money Laundering & Counter-Terrorism Financing Laws
« Reply #5 on: September 21, 2009, 12:58:20 PM »
Further clarification from the Australian Government website:

Australia has implemented the anti-money laundering and counter-terrorism financing (AML/CTF) laws to meet international standards and to help protect businesses from being misused for money laundering and terrorism financing.

As a customer seeking certain services you may be asked to verify your identity.  By verifying your identity you are helping to protect Australian businesses from being misused for the purposes of criminal activity.

Frequently asked questions

    * What are money laundering and terrorism financing?
    * What are the laws?
    * Why have the laws been introduced?
    * Who do the laws affect?
    * When could you be affected?
    * How could you be affected?
    * What is ongoing customer due diligence?
    * Can a Tax File Number be used to verify my identity?
    * What happens if I do not have identification?
    * How will your privacy be protected?
    * Want more information?


What are money laundering and terrorism financing?


The goal of most criminal acts is to generate a profit. Money laundering is the process of disguising the illegal origin of criminal profits. This allows criminals to access and use the dirty money obtained through crime without being detected.

Terrorist groups also move funds to disguise their source, purpose and destination. Terrorism financing includes the financing of terrorist acts, terrorists and terrorist organisations. Further information on terrorist financing offences can be found on the National Security website.

Money laundering and terrorism financing are serious crimes.

What are the laws?

The Anti-Money Laundering and Counter-Terrorism Financing Act 2006 requires those providing certain financial, gambling or bullion dealing services to:

    * identify their customers before providing those services
    * monitor customer transactions on an ongoing basis when they provide those services
    * clarify or update customer information including the nature of the customer’s business
    * keep records in relation to those services, and
    * report certain transactions and suspicious matters

Why have the laws been introduced?

The Australian Government introduced AML/CTF laws to:

    * bring Australia’s AML/CTF system into line with international standards
    * reduce the risk of Australian businesses being misused for the purposes of money laundering or terrorism financing, and
    * meet the needs of law enforcement agencies for targeted information about activity which may be linked to money laundering, terrorism financing and other serious crimes.

Who do the laws affect?

The laws may affect customers of a number of service providers, including:

    * banks, credit unions, building societies, lending, leasing and hire purchase companies, stored value card issuers, issuers of traveller’s cheques, foreign exchange dealers, asset management companies, remittance dealers, financial planners who arrange for the issue of financial products, life insurers, superannuation funds, custodial service companies, cash couriers and securities dealers
    * the gambling sector, including casinos, bookmakers, TABs, clubs and pubs, internet and electronic gaming service providers, and
    * bullion dealers.

When could you be affected?

As a customer you could be affected in a range of circumstances, including:

    * opening an account with a bank or other financial institution
    * obtaining a loan
    * buying traveller’s cheques
    * sending, receiving or transferring funds electronically
    * undertaking a gambling cash transaction of $10,000 or more
    * buying or selling bullion, and
    * withdrawing superannuation benefits.

How could you be affected?

As a customer, the business you’re dealing with may need to verify your identity. The types of documents you could be asked to provide to verify your identity may vary for different transactions or services. They may also vary across different service providers.

For example, where a business determines that the service or transaction represents a low risk of money laundering or terrorism financing, customers might only be required to produce a driver’s licence. For other transactions or services, you might be required to provide more information.

Identification documents that you could be asked to provide include:

    * passport
    * birth certificate
    * driver’s licence
    * utilities statement, or
    * a statement from a bank or other financial institution.

Businesses covered by the laws are also required to have AML/CTF programs in place, conduct ongoing monitoring of customer activity, and report suspicious matters.

As a customer, you may also be asked for additional information about your identity or your transactions, as part of a business’s ongoing customer due diligence.

What is ongoing customer due diligence?

The Act requires businesses that provide certain financial, gambling, or bullion dealing services to monitor customer transactions on an ongoing basis, and clarify or update information they have on these customers, including the nature of the customer’s business.  This is called ongoing customer due diligence.

Ongoing customer due diligence helps the businesses to identify, mitigate and manage money laundering and terrorism financing risks.

The provisions under the Act relating to ongoing customer due diligence commence on 12 December 2008.

As a customer, you may be asked for additional information about your identity or to provide documents that can be used to reverify your identity as part of a business’s ongoing customer due diligence program. You may also be asked for more information about your transactions.

You can find more information on customer due diligence obligations under the Act from the Australian Transaction Reports and Analysis Centre (AUSTRAC) website.

Can a Tax File Number be used to verify my identity?

No. A Tax File Number (TFN) can neither be used or disclosed to establish or confirm your identity.

What happens if I do not have identification?

A business may not be able to provide the service you require if you are unable to provide the appropriate level of identification required by the business.

How will your privacy be protected?

Businesses and Australian Government agencies that are required to collect personal information under AML/CTF laws are required to handle this information in accordance with the Privacy Act 1988 (Privacy Act).

The Privacy Act regulates the collection, use, disclosure, quality and security of personal information, including for AML/CTF purposes.

You can find out more about the privacy obligations of service providers undertaking AML/CTF activities, and your rights as a customer of those providers from the Office of the Privacy Commissioner website.

Want more information?

Customer Information Line on 1800 021 037

E-mail: customers@austrac.gov.au.
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*CountessA*

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Re: PayPal and Anti-Money Laundering & Counter-Terrorism Financing Laws
« Reply #6 on: September 21, 2009, 12:59:15 PM »
This appears to be the relevant section with regard to PayPal:
Quote
How could you be affected?

As a customer, the business you’re dealing with may need to verify your identity. The types of documents you could be asked to provide to verify your identity may vary for different transactions or services. They may also vary across different service providers.

For example, where a business determines that the service or transaction represents a low risk of money laundering or terrorism financing, customers might only be required to produce a driver’s licence. For other transactions or services, you might be required to provide more information.

Identification documents that you could be asked to provide include:

    * passport
    * birth certificate
    * driver’s licence
    * utilities statement, or
    * a statement from a bank or other financial institution.

Businesses covered by the laws are also required to have AML/CTF programs in place, conduct ongoing monitoring of customer activity, and report suspicious matters.

As a customer, you may also be asked for additional information about your identity or your transactions, as part of a business’s ongoing customer due diligence.

What is ongoing customer due diligence?

The Act requires businesses that provide certain financial, gambling, or bullion dealing services to monitor customer transactions on an ongoing basis, and clarify or update information they have on these customers, including the nature of the customer’s business.  This is called ongoing customer due diligence.

Ongoing customer due diligence helps the businesses to identify, mitigate and manage money laundering and terrorism financing risks.

The provisions under the Act relating to ongoing customer due diligence commence on 12 December 2008.

As a customer, you may be asked for additional information about your identity or to provide documents that can be used to reverify your identity as part of a business’s ongoing customer due diligence program. You may also be asked for more information about your transactions.

You can find more information on customer due diligence obligations under the Act from the Australian Transaction Reports and Analysis Centre (AUSTRAC) website.
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Liisa-Sx

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Re: PayPal and Anti-Money Laundering & Counter-Terrorism Financing Laws
« Reply #7 on: September 21, 2009, 02:23:09 PM »
and yet... PayPal are freezing account holders funds under the guise of this legislation, I read everything I could find on this matter and not anywhere did I find that a financial broker/transfer institution or bank has the right to freeze or hold funds under this act..

If I am wrong or missed something perhaps someone else has a keener eye.

Also here is a copy of the letter being sent out:

Dear ____________,
We are contacting you because changes to Australian anti-money laundering laws require PayPal to confirm the identity of its customers whose accounts reach a specific transaction level.

Our records indicate that your account falls into one of the following categories, and requires your attention:
- Your account has almost reached the transaction level. Once this level is reached, PayPal is required to confirm your identity; otherwise a restriction will be imposed on your account preventing you from sending payments or withdrawing funds.
- Your account has previously surpassed the transaction level (the anti-money laundering laws apply retrospectively from December 2007). *If your account reaches this limit again or you do not respond to this request within 45 days,(previously this same letter was sent stating 60 days now revised to 45 for some reason) a restriction will be imposed on your account preventing you from sending payments or withdrawing funds.

Please act now and avoid any potential restrictions. Log in to your PayPal account. On the My Account Overview page, look for the notice that directs you to the steps required for confirming your identity.

If you have any trouble completing these steps, please call Customer Service at 1800-073-263.

For reference, your case ID number is PP-xxx-xxx-xxx.

We appreciate your business and patience in helping us comply with Australian law.



Sincerely,
PayPal



Please do not reply to this email. We do not monitor this mailbox, and you will not receive a response. For ***istance, log in to your PayPal account and click the Help link located in the top right corner of any page. If your enquiry is regarding a claim, log in to your PayPal account and go to the Resolution Centre.


Also note that ALL employees MUST undergo training in relation to thse laws and yet if you call PayPal they know very little if anything apart from what is prewritten on a bluff card.
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tellomon

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Re: PayPal and Anti-Money Laundering & Counter-Terrorism Financing Laws
« Reply #8 on: September 21, 2009, 02:24:18 PM »
Mind staggering!

No comment, unless there's a Reader's Digest version.... :huh:
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Liisa-Sx

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Re: PayPal and Anti-Money Laundering & Counter-Terrorism Financing Laws
« Reply #9 on: September 21, 2009, 02:46:43 PM »
This goes to show that PayPal employees have not been trained and are pretty clueless pertaining to this discussion AND if you read the article PayPal states the delay was due to normal banking transfer times, I don't know about you but to me that means they had removed the funds into one of their bank accounts for short term money market use and it took time to transfer it back...



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cueperkins

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Re: PayPal and Anti-Money Laundering & Counter-Terrorism Financing Laws
« Reply #10 on: September 21, 2009, 03:20:49 PM »
Is this happening right now? in Australia? i.e. is Paypal using this to impose the holding rule?.....Also, I had to notice this:

Initially we will attempt to verify your identity electronically via a third party provider, and may request you log-in to your PayPal account and securely review or update your existing information.


So is this just another defacto dance? 

As we've all said ad nauseum...the only way to prevent fraud or crime of any kind is to VERIFY account holders at the outset...NOT by defacto, via direct 100 PT Aust Post verification process....that's at least safe, and indemnified by Fed Gov. in terms of privacy....

The way Paypal's verification currently stands, what are they going to do if money laundering is discovered?  Blame the banks' verification process, they piggy backed onto to give their product the appearance of legitimacy?

My brain is fried, can someone give me a quick summary of the gist of all this for Aussie Consumers?  Are Paypal trying to impose this holding rule by sneaking it in behind Money Laundering legislation?

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Re: PayPal and Anti-Money Laundering & Counter-Terrorism Financing Laws
« Reply #11 on: September 21, 2009, 03:31:09 PM »
It's happening now. Some PayPal account holders have already reported being asked to verify their details, but until now there's been no direct confirmation of this being in relation to this legislation.
"No man is an Iland, intire of it selfe; every man is ...a part of the maine; ...any mans death diminishes me, because I am involved in Mankinde"

cueperkins

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Re: PayPal and Anti-Money Laundering & Counter-Terrorism Financing Laws
« Reply #12 on: September 21, 2009, 03:55:42 PM »
I smell a rat in the Gladioli Garden, Possums....!!!!


RiffRaff

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Re: PayPal and Anti-Money Laundering & Counter-Terrorism Financing Laws
« Reply #13 on: September 21, 2009, 04:24:48 PM »
PayPal have been verifying accounts under that legislation for months (I wrote about it on the eBay RT). It's an extremely easy process and funds are released as soon as the account holder has forwarded the appropriate identification. I don't know why anyone would have a problem with PayPal verifying account holders......step forward I would have thought.

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Re: PayPal and Anti-Money Laundering & Counter-Terrorism Financing Laws
« Reply #14 on: September 21, 2009, 04:27:23 PM »
The important points that I'd like everyone to be aware of are these:

1. You as an Australian citizen (and hence Australian consumer) have the responsibility to comply with any Australian legislation.
2. As an Australian citizen and consumer, you also have the right to the protection of Australian legislative requirements.
3. You should make yourselves thoroughly familiar with Australian legislation as it pertains to your situation both actual and potential.
4. If PayPal is acting according to Australian legislation, good.
5. You cannot determine whether PayPal is acting according to Australian legislation unless you familiarise yourself with Australian legislation rather than blindly accepting whatever PayPal tell you.
6. If PayPal is acting beyond the scope of Australian legislation or its requirements, you have the right and in some respects the obligation to present that information to the relevant legislative bodies.

Hence... determine whether PayPal's proposed (and actual) action is according to the legislation to which it refers.

If it's not (and initial examination suggests that may be the case, subject to further investigation), then act by referring to the bodies that have the power to enforce Australian legislation.
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cueperkins

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Re: PayPal and Anti-Money Laundering & Counter-Terrorism Financing Laws
« Reply #15 on: September 21, 2009, 04:29:18 PM »
 :applause: :applause: :applause: :applause: :applause:

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Re: PayPal and Anti-Money Laundering & Counter-Terrorism Financing Laws
« Reply #16 on: September 21, 2009, 04:37:22 PM »
IF PayPal are conducting account verification then that is a step im the right direction.

BUT that would depend entirely on the quality of the verification process.

We have all beem crying out for verification so let us hope it is a legitimate process and not some defacto process that has been used in the past.

PayPal also say that they are going to be using a third party verifier, that is suspect as far as I am concerned.

Is it going to be a verification process or a data mining operation, i see that they have failed to divulge just who the third party are going to be.

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Re: PayPal and Anti-Money Laundering & Counter-Terrorism Financing Laws
« Reply #17 on: September 21, 2009, 04:52:47 PM »
My first experience of this was in late December last year with a paypal email on my then main buying paypal account, warning me I would need to verify my paypal account if I bought much more that year. Well since little left of year, that never happened. Amount for that calender year around $50,000

 Three weeks ago I started a new P$P and ebay main buying account and racked up over $7000  within 10 days (even though one $1000 item seller refunded, as too cheap, it normally would have been $1500, but best match, new seller, bad ad etc.). As soon as total hit $7500 VERIFY ebay ID. I had week before verified bank account, even though P$P always funded by Credit card.

Email was very rudely worded and 4 times within seconds, wanting a current credit card statement and a photo government ID eg. driver licence, passport etc, faxed or posted. P$P is more concerned about P$P being hit with charge backs, the AML is a nice smoke screen for them.

One thing I have found for people who do not trust P$P to keep their details private and are small sellers / buyers is you can open a P$P with a bank (not store or PO) debit gift card visa M/C, available from $50 . Spend on P$P or supermarket wherever. You can give the credit card to your cat if you like at your address or work address etc. You can later when you need to verify bank account use an  internet only account. P$P can put two small cent sums in but NEVER withdraw a cent as only withdrawals allowed are to linked bank account used to open INTERNET ONLY account.

In my experience most people need a buying and selling P$P account but not relevant to this topic

Liisa-Sx

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Re: PayPal and Anti-Money Laundering & Counter-Terrorism Financing Laws
« Reply #18 on: September 21, 2009, 05:05:13 PM »
I got asked to verify a looong term account the other week or so (when I wanted to list something) that was verified already that was linked to a bank account and a credit card, and that I had succesfully bought and paid for an item with recently, I'm fine with that, the more verification the better, no problem with that, however.....

All they wanted me to do was give them a phone number or an email address to accept a return call/email... the thing is, it could be ANY phone number or email address anywhere...you see where I am going with this? I could have made up a quicky Gmail or hotmail addy and no real verification would have taken place and yes I asked Live Help if any Phone number or Email would suffice...yep sure will, I thought they would at least send it to the numbers and adresses in my account.  ;D

Why not make all verification procedures uniform across the board, it's a tad confusing.
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Bazinga

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Re: PayPal and Anti-Money Laundering & Counter-Terrorism Financing Laws
« Reply #19 on: September 22, 2009, 08:25:54 PM »
I have opened a number of accounts with banks like bankwest, ING and all they require is a copy of a current bank statement from the account you are going to be funding from.

As the orignal bank had to have had a 100 pionts to open that account that is susfisiant to satisfy the anti money laundering rules for a real bank.

The only one that has given me any issues was Member Equity that wanted a 100 points via Aus Post and restricked out going transactions to 50k a day, not happy about that


Bazinga

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Re: PayPal and Anti-Money Laundering & Counter-Terrorism Financing Laws
« Reply #20 on: September 22, 2009, 08:33:43 PM »
I asked Live Help if any Phone number

even a phone number means nothing really, with the voip supplier I use I can change my phone number as often as I like 

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Re: PayPal and Anti-Money Laundering & Counter-Terrorism Financing Laws
« Reply #21 on: September 23, 2009, 11:32:18 PM »
I too was one of the lucky recipients of this "newsletter" from PP the other day.  My motto is forewarned is forearmed.  I spent the day on the phone ringing everyone I could think of to find out if they (PP) could do this.

Finally, I got on to AUSTRAC, this is the govt department responsible for the Anti-Money Laundering...Act.  I read the email out to them and asked... "Does PP have the right to withhold funds under this Act", the answer was NO!.  PP have a reporting obligation only and also have a legal obligation to ensure they  have verified their users.  But they can not withhold funds under the guise of this Act.

The guy I spoke to asked me to forward the email to him, haven't done it yet but am wondering if anyone else here has been in contact with AUSTRAC.

The Act prescribes the threshold for reporting as AU$10K and this was confirmed by AUSTRAC on the phone.

Also, PP is the middle man for transactions, transactions through PP are either through a linked credit card or bank account, so I would have thought that a bank or card institution here in Australia would be more likely to be the reporter of any over the threshold transactions.

Under the new law, once your account reaches a certain transaction level (as determined by the Australian authorities), we are legally required to prevent you from making payments and withdrawing funds
Bottom line there is no law that states this.  What threshold, who set the threshold and what instruments were used in developing this "threshold", who were the Australian Authorities.

I think ACCC would have some issues with the wording of that email.


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Re: PayPal and Anti-Money Laundering & Counter-Terrorism Financing Laws
« Reply #22 on: September 23, 2009, 11:46:13 PM »
Ginar, there is interest in getting in touch with the legislative bodies concerned, en masse, to make a concerted report - because I agree with you (from my preliminary reading of the Act); PayPal appear to be masking their actions behind Australian legislation that does not require them to withhold funds in this way.
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Re: PayPal and Anti-Money Laundering & Counter-Terrorism Financing Laws
« Reply #23 on: September 24, 2009, 11:08:52 AM »
Welcome Ginar, I also followed this up and was told exactly the same thing as you were, Paypal are NOT under any circumstances permitted to withold funds under the guise of the aforementioned act, to do so they are acting unlawfully, so I suggest anyone that falls under this Illegal policy to firstly contact the ACCC and secondly set PayPal straight.

I just love how PayPal feel they are a law unto themselves....
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Ginar

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Re: PayPal and Anti-Money Laundering & Counter-Terrorism Financing Laws
« Reply #24 on: September 24, 2009, 03:29:53 PM »
This is probably going to sound silly, but I hope PP do freeze someone's account under this ACT.  And, in a way I hope it is one of my PP accounts, because it will end up being something they will be very sorry for.  And I believe we need this to happen to let them know they are breaking the law and we will not be bullied by them.

Liisa-Sx, did you speak with AUSTRAC? 

I think all we can do at this stage is watch and wait to see if they will try and breach Australian laws.  And, if they freeze an account under the guise of this Act are they going to be honest and admit that or will it be frozen under the PP Act of "we need you to update your contact inform".  This is where we need PP to state that the account has been frozen under the Money-Laundering Act.

I was told, by Austrac, that if PP freeze your account using this Act to ring them and ask them to tell you where in the Act it states they can do this.  Of course, they won't be able to furnish you with the information, so make a diary note of who you spoke to and their response.