Author Topic: NPB's - when do YOU give up? (Read 28886 times)

Bazza · « **Reply #50 on:** October 25, 2009, 08:21:48 PM »

We are talking about buying and selling on ebay arent we?

Society's ills run a bit deeper than NPB's.

*CountessA* · « **Reply #51 on:** October 25, 2009, 08:24:31 PM »

Just a reminder to keep the discussion focused on the issue rather than making it personal... Thanks.

I strongly believe that the best way of dealing with NPBs is to issue a strike. I also strongly believe that sellers should not be stripped, whipped, tossed into a barrel of oil and another barrel full of maggoty flour, strung up, crumbed and then fried for choosing not to issue a strike. Individuals have freedom of choice.

It's a pity, because all the oil and flour I have here will go to waste, but there it is. The whole freedom of choice thing...

cueperkins · « **Reply #52 on:** October 25, 2009, 08:27:26 PM »

I agree bazza

So who are we covering with flour?.....I like the public stoning scenario better....it's monty pythonesque.......All I said was Jehovah

mandurahmum · « **Reply #53 on:** October 25, 2009, 08:27:42 PM »

I am only a buyer, so I cant imagine how frustrating it can be for sellers. I like to pay immediately and if not certainly within 48 hours.

ebay does need to do something about non paying buyers, as a lot seem to be involved in shill bidding, and they are just time wasters. I hate the thought of not winning an item that I wanted, and if it is because of a time waster then I am more annoyed.

I think two strikes and your out, more than 10 bid retractions in 6 months - your out. I have never retracted a bid, no need to for me I am careful when placing my bids. I have never not paid a seller either.

Bazza · « **Reply #54 on:** October 25, 2009, 08:28:47 PM »

Do you care that others will face this person too?

What? So you think I should waste my time getting buyers banned from ebay? Chances are that these people have or will actually buy something on ebay. Please try to keep in mind. It's not a sale unless money has changed hands.

*smee* · « **Reply #55 on:** October 25, 2009, 08:31:11 PM »

Ok well now I am confused .... So If I shill bid my auctions and dont pay myself I have to either issue myself with a NPB strike and get publicly stoned or sent to ebondi and if I dont strike my self I end up getting dipped, stripped whipped and tossed (which sounded good up until this point) into a barrell of oil and of maggoty flour and strung up and crumbed and fried ..... hmmmmmmmm

The good thing is though my listings will progress on the best match list !!!!! yipeee !!!

cueperkins · « **Reply #56 on:** October 25, 2009, 08:32:17 PM »

Goody...we're back to the public stoning....in Bondi....nice place to get stoned I guess....lmao.

*CountessA* · « **Reply #57 on:** October 25, 2009, 08:35:14 PM »

I will be glad to do the stripping, whipping, coating and stoning. I'll try to use soft stones. But the fryer is on the blitz - I cannot fry anyone!

(Pythonesque? You're right. Most of my best lines are MP's, and I've simply... er... well... borrowed them - but I always put them back afterwards.)

mandurahmum · « **Reply #58 on:** October 25, 2009, 08:39:40 PM »

Ok well now I am confused .... So If I shill bid my auctions and dont pay myself I have to either issue myself with a NPB strike and get publicly stoned or sent to ebondi and if I dont strike my self I end up getting dipped, stripped whipped and tossed (which sounded good up until this point) into a barrell of oil and of maggoty flour and strung up and crumbed and fried ..... hmmmmmmmm

you told me you liked that sort of stuff

Poddy · « **Reply #59 on:** October 25, 2009, 08:42:25 PM »

but I always put them back afterwards.)

Unaltered or embellished with eloquent verbosity?

tellomon · « **Reply #60 on:** October 25, 2009, 08:44:20 PM »

The strike function is there for a reason.

Not as good as 2-way Feedback!

Poddy · « **Reply #61 on:** October 25, 2009, 08:52:42 PM »

And on the eighth day god created ebay

You would think that by the eighth he would have learnt from his mistakes

*CountessA* · « **Reply #62 on:** October 25, 2009, 09:06:27 PM »

It's verbose, no doubt about it. *guilty shrug*

Roo · « **Reply #63 on:** October 25, 2009, 09:56:48 PM »

Quote from: *Cupie* on October 25, 2009, 07:29:53 PM

Here's a beauty for the shoe being on the other foot....I bid on an item the other night and the auction ended, but the item went kapoof...So I emailed the seller to ask what happened to my bid....this was her reply.

Hi there,
I wasnt willing to sell the doll for this amount,so I will be
relisting it with a higher reserve.
thanks for your interest.

As a consumer....so much for the so called Ebay contract of sale? Now how do you report a non performing seller these days?

Cupie...when you said the listing went 'poof'!...did you mean that it was no longer visible?

If that is the case, maybe the listing was removed by Ebay? Because of an infringement perhaps?

It's just that listings are still visible after they have finished...unless Ebay remove them....no matter if the seller doesn't want to go ahead.

*CountessA* · « **Reply #64 on:** October 25, 2009, 10:15:04 PM »

Here's the page about the conditions by which a seller on eBay must abide.

Here's the link for reporting sellers who don't abide by those conditions.

tellomon · « **Reply #65 on:** October 25, 2009, 10:15:24 PM »

Listings aren't the only things that go poof.

C):-{= <" tello, you ashhold! leave roo alone, on this thread..... and sack her good on the next one LOL! "<<

*Yibida* · « **Reply #66 on:** October 25, 2009, 10:45:48 PM »

Re: NPB's - when do YOU give up? => when the blood stops flowing..........

NPB

Bazza · « **Reply #67 on:** October 25, 2009, 11:58:37 PM »

Effective as of last Friday:

http://pages2.ebay.com.au/InsideSelling/Unpaid_Items_Process/

*smee* · « **Reply #68 on:** October 26, 2009, 12:04:43 AM »

Thanks Bazz, interesting 4 days wait now not 7 to open dispute ... I hope they are informing buyers then that payment is expected within 4 days ??? I doubt it though

mandurahmum · « **Reply #69 on:** October 26, 2009, 12:40:59 AM »

that seems like a good thing

cueperkins · « **Reply #70 on:** October 26, 2009, 09:36:15 AM »

No roo, Ebay didn't remove it the seller did...but I don't think I can get her for non performance. I bid on her item and because she didn't get any more bids, she simply removed it herself...as above, I emailed her and asked what had happened, and she replied thus:

Hi there,
I wasnt willing to sell the doll for this amount,so I will be
relisting it with a higher reserve.
thanks for your interest.

So, in effect, she is a non performing seller, but I can't neg her...I still want to report her to Ebay because basically, you can't just pull an item because you didn't get enough for it?...but hey it's ebay....everyone whinges about buyers not paying, but what of sellers who CONSTANTLY do the dodgy on Buyers?.....?????

By all rights, she should not have been allowed to remove the listing once a bid had been registered....but it's a different ballgame when sellers decide they don't want to sell....just saying, it ain't all one sided.....some sellers are absolute pratts.

mandurahmum · « **Reply #71 on:** October 26, 2009, 01:03:47 PM »

I have had a similar experience with a seller that I won an item off. After I won and paid (I paid straight away) I got a message the next day saying they had "lost" the item. I did not report them as a non performing seller, but I probably should have - They relisted a week later. I tried to bid on it - and I had been blocked.

Emailed ebay about it - nothing happened though

cueperkins · « **Reply #72 on:** October 26, 2009, 05:46:09 PM »

Here's an example of the flipside of this threads topic....

I bought an item, along with several other items which have long since been paid for and on their way.....when I tried to pay for this one however, no bank deposit details in checkout...

so, being busy, I pay for the other items, and it gets to the weekend, and no invoice from the seller, so I go about my weekend, (no point paying till Sunday cause the bank doesn't deposit it till Monday), and first thing this morning....NPB case lodged. So I email the seller to ask, how he expected me to pay when his b/details are not in checkout where any buyer expects to find them, when trying to 'PAY' ?????....All the other sellers I purchased from had those details where they should be, and where obviously a buyer can't miss them when going thru checkout...so of course, they got paid.....quickly in fact.....

This was his reply: edited for privacy reasons:

Firstly i am (Ebay sellers) brother and am helping him out whilst he is overseas. Had you would have looked and read the description instead of looking at the pretty pictures only, you would have seen the banking details there...It was also in green text so it stood out....Anyway here is a copy and paste but not in green this time. here is the auction number

Have a most lovely day.....Regards (Total Imposter).

Condescending pratt isn't he? The type that give good sellers a bad name? But even worse....It's not his account, so why is he accessing it?

Does ebay allow account holders to give access to other parties? For all I know this sellers account could be hijacked...as it is, he's got buckley's chance of threatening me with piddly strikes given the circumstances, and even less chance of getting paid at this point.....see how the other side of the coin looks just as annoying?

Would you pay this seller?

mandurahmum · « **Reply #73 on:** October 26, 2009, 07:00:35 PM »

My first instinct is to say No I would not pay them - how rude are they. But in reality I would pay them - I would be thinking of my feedback that I was going to leave though.

cueperkins · « **Reply #74 on:** October 27, 2009, 06:24:48 AM »

Then you must be much more trusting than I Jane. I use Bank Deposit, not Paypal, so when it comes to paying, I have ABSOLUTELY no redress against this pratt, and Ebay make sure of it. So I'd be a fool to pay him.

You see....he's breaking the rules, being overbearing, and thinking he can threaten me with a strike. He can bend over and bite his own arse before I'll be extorted into paying someone I don't trust.

So, I emailed Trust and Safety, advised them of the unwarranted NPB case over the sellers laziness, and sent a copy of his email admitting it was not his account. He then emailed me with a 'dubious' copy of a live chat, again threatening a strike, so I told him to knock himself out...strikes can be appealed.

I will be lodging a fair trading complaint against this seller and Ebay today...on principal alone, I'm mightily pissed off that a person is trying to threaten me using someone elses account with Ebay's anti consumer NPB system enabling him to achieve this type of extortion . I only hope that Ebay issue a strike because it places them squarely in the middle of any FT complaint for enabling this suspicious seller to extort and possibly even defraud a consumer....at threat of punitive strike against that consumer? Oh yeah, I can see FT upholding that....NOT !!

I DON'T generally leave neg feedback ...something about the feedback system makes me feel as though it is Ebay's way of wasting our time..... I'd prefer it if the feedback system from buyers added up against the seller in Ebay's records and that THEY did something to make sure the seller lifts their game..puts their b/deposit details in checkout, and refrains from using someone elses account...it's not my job to police frauds and shonks...it's theirs.

Now this would be an obvious occasion in which the seller could easily alleviate himself from this strife, by offering mutual cancellation...

cueperkins · « **Reply #75 on:** October 28, 2009, 10:14:04 AM »

Update from Ebay...I get an email this morning, acknowledging my advice that the seller is not in charge of his own account etc, and the fact that the bank details were not in Checkout etc....the usual dribble about privacy....and then quite unbelievably, they advise me to keep negotiating with this seller?...So, here's how I replied...

First of all, Ebay should provide a way to reply to emails from ebay....It's clear to me that there is no reply function because you simply don't want to deal with customer service and potential fraud issues. Secondly, are you people unable to comprehend your own site rules? You acknowledge that the seller in this case is allowing someone else to use his account, and yet you are advising me to keep discussing resolution with this imposter?..The account holder is breaching the UA allowing someone else access...obviously with Ebay's blessing? Any Contract of Sale that might have existed is long since voided by the sellers conduct, and you have the hide to advise me to complete the purchase?

Well, I tell ya what...when Ebay decide to protect all consumers equally, no matter what payment system they choose, then I might take the risk of being ripped off yet again, by one of your anonymous unverified shonk sellers...OK?

If a punitive strike is issued against my account when you are aware that this seller is dubious, (and equally that no redress or protection is offered to consumers of other payment systems), I will most definitely report you to fair trading and ACCC in that order.

It's no wonder consumers get so frustrated with your ad hoc idea of consumer safety and customer service, both are non existent.....and please...don't offend me further by advising me to join Paypal...I won't until they sign the EFT code and amend their UA.....

The issue is that Ebay DON'T protect consumers on their site if they use any other payment method. Attempting to coerce consumers into payment of an item, when you clearly know you'll provide me with NO REDRESS when I get ripped off, is downright unconscionable !!

You should be ashamed of yourselves...issue a strike, I couldn't care less if this is how Ebay treats long standing consumers.

I used to sell, now I don't...that's YOUR FAULT...you discriminate against anyone who prefers an Australian Payment method...that's obvious...I used to buy, but these days why bother, my choice of payment method automatically places me at risk of Ebay's shonky anonymous sellers?....unbelievable. GET THIS STRAIGHT...I WON'T BE PAYING THIS SELLER.

See how it's a different set of circumstances when the shoe is on the other foot? How many of you would pay this seller with bank deposit? Why should Bank Deposit customers be constantly placed at risk because of their 'choice' of payment system?.....

I suggested during the rebellion and afterwards that if Ebay offered a buyer protection program for other payment methods (as they do in the US) up to $250 for instance, then all consumers would be protected to that extent. Even to charge 50 cents to 1.00 on each purchase to pay for that insurance would make sense. By not providing at least this level of protection, Ebay is actually shooting itself in the foot. I'd spend more than I do, if I knew I had protection...without protection, I don't usually spend more than 50.00....can't take the risk. See how that works? Not everyone loves Paypal. I'd prefer Paymate, but I can't use it on ebay can I????...no...!!! Their greed will be their undoing eventually.

*smee* · « **Reply #76 on:** October 28, 2009, 10:42:41 AM »

Good morning Cupie , I suggest you stop pussyfooting around with this one and get serious ....

Im really going to put paypals protection policy to the test , as is all the go now I am going to buy something off myself (appenntly that helps with your best match) I am going to pay myself by paypal and post to my self via Aust post , then I am going to tell Paypal that seller smee never posted to buyer smee and start a paypal shitfight between seller and buyer eventually paypal will have to refund one of the Smee's , in the interim I will also lodge a lost item claim with Aust post , if all goes well its a win win win situation for Smee , I end up getting paid by Paypal , I end up getting paid by Aust Post , I still have the item , I get my fvf refunded I can relist and get a refund on insertion fees if it sells the next time and also the item rockets up the listing page and on top of all that the real bonus is potential customers that have their eyes glued to my listings 24 hours a day with falsely think my items are moving quickly and will they rush in and buy off me and pay more than they otherwise would have ... I cant believe I havent thought of this before its a licence to print money ....

And do you know whats really sad .... some people would actually believe its possible ...

***modified ... I added this bit later so on topic***
Seller Smee will then issue buyer Smee with a npb on another Item I bought from myself (but Didnt pay) and then buyer Smee with attempt to get the npb removed and see how easy it is to get what is a warranted npb strike removed

cueperkins · « **Reply #77 on:** October 28, 2009, 10:54:37 AM »

So what's that got to do with a dodgy seller threatening an NPB strike? as opposed to a good seller, wrestling over whether and when they should issue a strike?...... Wrong thread I think...

*smee* · « **Reply #78 on:** October 28, 2009, 11:08:41 AM »

yeah your right sorry I will modify post so its strickly on topic

cueperkins · « **Reply #79 on:** October 28, 2009, 11:17:04 AM »

Not at all, it was quite humourous, made me laugh......just think the continuation of that particular saga has little to do with this one...

*smee* · « **Reply #80 on:** October 28, 2009, 11:20:57 AM »

no it doesnt , not one little bit , I will try to not let it happen again , in fact I shall ask a mod to remove the post to the Sin bin

Are you able to this Cupie or do I need to message admin ?

*CountessA* · « **Reply #81 on:** October 28, 2009, 11:38:45 AM »

It's not sinful enough to go to the Sin Bin.

I'm still waiting for two books to arrive from Germany. It's been over two months. Without communication from one of the sellers in response to my request for a tracking number, it doesn't give me a great deal of confidence.

When it comes to paying for things, I believe in the old adage, "You want it, you pay for it." I can count on one hand the number of times it's taken me more than 12 hours to pay for something won at auction online.

What's the rationale with buyers who do take a little longer to pay? I can understand it when someone is bidding on another item (or more than 1 other item), and wants to combine postage - but in other cases, I'm not exactly sure why people would delay.

These are the possibilities that make sense:

1. It's the weekend and the buyer will be paying by bank deposit. Perfectly understandable; you can't go to the bank and pay when the bank's closed.
2. The buyer is bidding on other items being sold by the same seller, and wishes to have combined postage (offered by the seller).
3. The buyer has just had his credit card stolen and his account emptied. The bank will be refunding him but he's temporarily in the midden.
4. The buyer has had an unexpected LARGE bill, and needs a bit of time to juggle financially.
5. The buyer is paying by cheque or money order, and the vagaries of the mail may mean a bit of a delay.

It would make sense for the buyer to communicate with the seller in most of those cases, wouldn't it?

If the delay is not for any of those reasons (communicated to the seller if the delay will be more than 3 days), why would a buyer delay? Are there other reasons I haven't envisaged?

*Yibida* · « **Reply #82 on:** October 28, 2009, 11:43:00 AM »

Ah favoritism eh?...if it was me and tello we'd be in the sin bin at the blink of an eye...ok.. so thats the way it is ?...mmmmmm..I'm gunna Neg someone !

*smee* · « **Reply #83 on:** October 28, 2009, 11:59:55 AM »

that appears to be a fair assesment Countess of reasons why a buyer wouldnt pay promptly .... these are the ones that I was refering to way back up there ^^^^^^ when I said I bombard them with reminder invoices etc , I as a seller have no problems if a buyer messaged me before bidding or even after winning item with a story whether it be true or untrue as to why they cant pay straight away and is it ok to pay in 5 days or 7 days or 10 days or whatever , I dont care if they pay off a $1 week until settled as long as they have the decentcy to keep me informed and once and arrangement is agreed to they honour that committment or again communicate ... this is how I dealt with bad debtors or slow payers in my real business life too ... if you are fair and reasonable you are more likely to get your money that not and after all that is the aim of the game to get paid ..... this is why I have never not be paid for an item ....
its all about communication , communication , communication .... by using this tool you can resolve a lot of issues in life ....

to nbp or not to nbp that is the question !

disclaimer : the views in this post are not neccessarily the views of this forum and any similarity to real life situation or any deceased person is purely coincidental ... it is however a tried and proven practise

cueperkins · « **Reply #84 on:** October 28, 2009, 12:12:41 PM »

It's the weekend and the buyer will be paying by bank deposit. Perfectly understandable; you can't go to the bank and pay when the bank's closed.

Similar limitation with b/deposit online.... if you don't pay for an item by Friday, possibly even Thursday midnight, the payment won't download till Monday....the bank obviously sends it on a weekend holiday to the short term money market.....When it's not the same bank, it can vary from 24 - 48 hours even during the week.

Other things that delay payment of course, is when a seller can't be bothered to ensure buyers have bank deposit details....in fact at one point, the majority of my purchases I had to email sellers to get the details.....most couldn't understand why they weren't in checkout? mmmmmhhhh!!! Ebay strikes again?

If you use Paypal, sure it's in your face, and instant (not that it seems they pay sellers very quickly with the e-cheques fiasco for instance)...another glitch that probably earned a lot of buyers NPB cases ???.

Yet another, is when your online bank is not available. I got delayed paying bills recently because of the security code feature being made mandatory.....they automatically sent it to a mobile I don't own anymore. By the time I figured it all out, it was two days on and the bank then reinstated my secret questions etc, till a security key was received.....shite happens.....

Then there's newbies.....unfamiliar with the ground rules that sellers seem to think are set in stone.....At least smee...you bother to email your buyers and ask....a lot of sellers don't...and some are downright pushy and rude.

BTW....people are not debtors until a service or product has been provided....just saying.

*smee* · « **Reply #85 on:** October 28, 2009, 12:36:49 PM »

BTW....people are not debtors until a service or product has been provided....just saying.

I fully understand that Cupie .... I do have an IQ higher than 7 ... despite the fact that I might not always come across that way ......
My use of the term bad debtor was to draw a comparision only ....
by bidding or clicking on buy it now or whatever the buyer has 'pledged' (is that the right word ? anyway Im sure you know what I mean) to pay so I see no reason why I shouldnt send them reminders etc if they havent followed through ....
A similar example being I rang telethon and pledged a donation of $1000 , I didnt send payment straight away they hadnt provided me with a product or a service but they sent me an invoice ,
I then had my accident and was hospialised this invoice got buried and I forgot about it and for sometime never paid the grand , I eventually got a notice from a debt collector ..... I did pay in the end but they certainly treated it as a debt rightfully or wrongfully (legally)and so did I because I made a comitment to donate .. you see life is not always about what is legally binding and what isnt sometimes it just comes down to what is correct morally

cueperkins · « **Reply #86 on:** October 28, 2009, 12:52:02 PM »

Smee, I don't think you can compare the two....one is a pledge the other involves a contract of sale....and when it comes to enforcing that on buyers, it's not the same thing. A contract of sale can be arguably voided, if the seller behaves in an unconscionable or unreasonable manner for instance.

In the example I'm dealing with, the seller fits that bill.

Every other seller I've dealt with lately had their details in checkout...I've had about 15 purchases lately, and only one idiot seller....not bad statistics in the long run is it? Recently though I had five sellers completely forget to register parcels, and for bank deposit customers that's just downright lazy...they know the risk for instance?....No paypal chargeback?...I had to email each and every one of them and chase up the rego fee?...real fun for consumers I don't think.

Also, if I'm debating an issue with you, or happen to make a comment that is in opposition to your beliefs or experience, I'm not implying anything about your IQ...OK?...we're just discussing an issue...both of us have different experiences with the same thing....as I said, most sellers I deal with are fine....I often include feedback stating 'Paid via b/deposit, reliable seller, AAA+++). In fact that's pretty standard for me.....B/deposit customers want to know a seller has been reliable with that payment method previously....in effect I'm doing them a favour leaving that feedback aren't I?.....B/deposit customers are an endangered consumer species on eBay. = E-Commerce Russian Roulette.

*smee* · « **Reply #87 on:** October 28, 2009, 01:04:06 PM »

Cupie , I agree with what you are saying about your particular seller , and you have every right not to pay under these circumstances ... at least you have communicated with him ........I am talking about sending reminders etc to a bidder who point blank refuses to touch base and let a seller know one way or the other whether they are going through with the purchase or not ... as I expained earlier in the thread up until this weeks changes of policy a seller had to wait at total of 15 days prior to issuing an nbp anyway so you might as well use this time wisely and send a few reminders or ring them or whatever and hopefully you get paid ( it has worked 100% of the time for me I have never ever had a non paying bidder) ... as said that is the ultimate aim to get paid and send item ....

Mind you I am sure the day will come when I dont get paid .... but I like to minimise the risk

cueperkins · « **Reply #88 on:** October 28, 2009, 01:22:10 PM »

I agree they're painful, but in that case, I'd have a two strike rule...email once to enquire, email the second time asking them to do a mutual cancellation, and instructing them how it's done...If there's still no response..then strike away.......Smee, some things on ebay are painfully time consuming to find and/or understand and buyers can't be expected to have read everything..particuarly newbies....so if a seller makes it easier to resolve, that's gotta be closer to a better outcome than wasting time on idiots.

At least in the mutual cancellation scenario, you can recoup fvf and relist, hopefully selling the second time around.....???

Let me ask though....If you've tried everything to recoup the fvf via mutual cancellation, Ebay don't really give you any other choice than to issue a strike, if for nothing else than to recoup losses?.

Can a buyer issued with a strike, leave feedback under any circumstances? If not, then it's perfectly justifiable for sellers to issue a strike with no communication or response from the buyer, but it's not reasonable if the buyer has been communicating as I have done...... If a buyer can leave feedback after a strike has been issued, then it really would make a seller think twice. In that case it would be a disincentive to issue a strike.

I'm not as up to date on that side of things any more......Things have changed a lot on ebay in two years since I stopped selling..it isn't what it used to be...way more complicated and stressful these days....What could they have been thinking....???. Innovative Disruption they call it..??

*smee* · « **Reply #89 on:** October 28, 2009, 01:36:18 PM »

Cupie why would I offer a mutual cancellation ? as far as I know the buyer wants the item and is going to pay ! He hasnt given me any indication to the contrary other than to not pay within in a few days ... so why would I take the negative approach and assume they arnt going to ... no....I look for a way to finalise the transaction in my financial favour ... and its worked every time ( do I need to fabricate some spread sheets and tell lies to get believed on this or what ? )
...Cupie no seller wants to issue a NPB strike .... they want to be paid .... lets face it if buyer bid on on some thing then just do the right thing and pay or email the seller and advise that you dont want it now for whatever reason and none of the above thread would be an issue ... just dont not do anything .... Please !

I am not talking about instances like the one you have quoted where you had every intention of paying and the transaction has gone pear shaped for a number of reasons... I am talking about the stock standard run of the mill transactions ....

*CountessA* · « **Reply #90 on:** October 28, 2009, 01:43:08 PM »

What sellers hate:

... a buyer who wins an item, doesn't pay within 4 days, doesn't communicate with the seller, doesn't respond to a reminder invoice, doesn't respond to a second reminder invoice, doesn't respond to a third reminder invoice, answers and identifies himself BUT hangs up when seller has obtained contact details, pretends to gabble a foreign language when called again, says in fake bad English, "He not here, go away, wrong number" when called a third time...

At what stage do you say that enough is enough and that, no matter how patient you are, the buyer is not going to pay?

cueperkins · « **Reply #91 on:** October 28, 2009, 02:14:18 PM »

Whatever !!!!! doesn't matter what I say Smee...

At what stage do you say that enough is enough and that, no matter how patient you are, the buyer is not going to pay?

And at what stage do you realise that Ebay's contract of sale over buyers, doesn't hold water in the real world? Any number of things can void a contract of sale.....

At what point does a seller realise that they are partially issuing a strike to recoup FVF and otherwise, they'd probably just relist and get on with it?....Why so 'bash the bad buyer'???? The contract of sale means nothing the very second a 'trader' (under FT definitions), breaches that contract...and that's a grey area...

And if you think a seller has any legal right to enforce Ebay's laughable contact of sale......try it I dare ya...lol...take a buyer on with Fair Trading for not paying...hey...good luck with that.

But if you issue a strike and that same buyer reports you to FT? because their ebay account was suspended?....well, that's gonna be a whole different kettle of fish, particularly if the seller threatens those strikes in order to achieve payment and the buyer can prove it - not nice...lol

Again I reiterate...most sellers only issue a strike to recoup costs. and that's Ebay's charming little system. Why can't they simply credit for NPB's? No money is collected by the seller...ebay know their COS can't be enforced...it's all just bullshit. Try looking at the cause before blaming the victim.

Anyway, I'm out of this debate...

*smee* · « **Reply #92 on:** October 28, 2009, 02:32:44 PM »

At what stage do you say that enough is enough and that, no matter how patient you are, the buyer is not going to pay?

at day 15 .... that is the earliest you can say that unless the buyer has advised you earlier that they dont wnt to proceed ... this is my point and is fact !

And if you think a seller has any legal right to enforce Ebay's laughable contact of sale......try it I dare ya...lol...take a buyer on with Fair Trading for not paying...hey...good luck with that.

But if you issue a strike and that same buyer reports you to FT? because their ebay account was suspended?....well, that's gonna be a whole different kettle of fish, particularly if the seller threatens those strikes in order to achieve payment and the buyer can prove it - not nice...lol

Again I reiterate...most sellers only issue a strike to recoup costs. and that's Ebay's charming little system. Why can't they simply credit for NPB's? No money is collected by the seller...ebay know their COS can't be enforced...it's all just bullshit. Try looking at the cause before blaming the victim.

none of this applies because of the way I approach my buyers I have never not been paid ... my other point !

cueperkins · « **Reply #93 on:** October 28, 2009, 02:39:26 PM »

Smee, the way you operate your business has nothing to do with how sellers generally on ebay operate theirs....some are idiots....OK?

*smee* · « **Reply #94 on:** October 28, 2009, 02:40:31 PM »

yes Cupie agreed ... 100%

cueperkins · « **Reply #95 on:** October 28, 2009, 02:41:58 PM »

Finally...

*Brum6y* · « **Reply #96 on:** October 28, 2009, 02:58:25 PM »

Re: NPB's - when do YOU give up?

This, and several dozen other questions, will be answered differently by different sellers for different reasons. Horses for courses, as it has been said.

Each seller has their own priorities in running their business - some personal, some commercial, some legislative, some relevant to the market in which they operate and some because of eBay's and Paypal's modus operandi. Those priorities can be influenced by fear, hope, experience, the global financial crisis, mail strikes and a host of other factors that only each seller, operating in their own arena, can fully respond to with instinctive immediacy. (Explaining such decisions to someone unfamiliar with the nuances of the seller's situation can be onerous. It could even be said: "For those who understand, no explanation is needed. For those who do not, no explanation is possible.")

I know a couple of sellers. One is particularly focussed on building and maintaining a brilliant reputation. They are patient with slow payers, they combine postage on multiple purchases and will even refund every cent of excess postage if something was quoted at one rate and, when packaged for the post, came in 5g under and could be posted more cheaply.

They are not interested in 'keeping the bastard buyers honest' per se, but rather on building their business and protecting their reputation for being fair and honest. They are very sensitive to feedback and have worked hard to look after their customers.

I have not questioned them about the specific reasons for some of their apparent priorities, but from my observation, issuing a NPB strike would be made on the basis of impact to their business - reputation, cash flow, etc. - more than cracking a dimwit buyer over the skull because they deserve it.

cueperkins · « **Reply #97 on:** October 28, 2009, 03:03:45 PM »

Exactly.....

and some sellers are still idiots !!!

NPB strikes were the last resort for me as a seller, and most of the time, I just tried to cancel to recoup costs if all else was lost...Ebay's system to recoup those costs at the very least.,.,...don't make it any easier....it forces sellers to be punitive to buyers, thereby affecting their reputation, just to recoup fvf...the system itself is flawed I reckon...Ebay never lose......but that's just my observation. Sellers will get around it or deal with it, in their own way, according to their own ethics.

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