Author Topic: How to Coiner the market..... Coinerz please feel free to add content.....  (Read 20091 times)

*Yibida*

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 :coinspin:This is for the Coinerz as a goodwill start up post..seeing your all so shy..{ Please correct me if anything posted is wrong..I only collect loose change..}


 :coinspin:The first rule of coin cleaning is: If you don't know its value, don't clean it, or if you think it is valuable, don't clean it, or if you know it is valuable, don't clean it. In other words, do not clean your discovered coins; leave them untouched and stored in proper holders. The reason for this is that coin dealers and collectors are interested in purchasing coins in their original condition and natural state of preservation.
 
For example, never clean coins with commercial jewelry and metal polishes or silver tarnish remover, which will remove the toning that normally collects over time on copper and silver coins. Removing tarnish often harms coins, leaving small spots, scratches, or pockmarks that can significantly diminish their numismatic value by up to 90 percent! Statistically, nearly 20 percent of coins shown to coin dealers are rejected because they were improperly cleaned, polished, or their toning was chemically enhanced. Remember, you cannot unclean an improperly cleaned coin.

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 :coinspin:The second rule of cleaning coins is take your coins to a professional do the cleaning. Professional dealers often offer a coin cleaning service using a method called "dripping" that should not be attempted by an amateur. Always handle your coins by the edges to avoid fingerprints on the surfaces.

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 :coinspin:The third rule of cleaning is, if your coins are so corroded that the date and details cannot be determined, consult a professional for advice before attempting to clean the coins to avoid or minimize possible damage.

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 :coinspin:The fourth rule is, if you absolutely, positively must clean your discovered coins, you should clean them with the least harmful method that will give the desired results. Remember that excessively dirty or spotted coins, if not cleaned within a reasonable length of time, can eventually corrode and become damaged beyond repair. After selecting the method you will use, you should experiment on low-value coins before cleaning high-value coins. Do not be tempted to use harsh chemicals, vinegar, sulfuric acid, abrasive pastes, polishing cloths, metal brushes, rock tumblers, rotating tools, or impact devices which can result in smooth, shiny, metal slugs.

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 :coinspin:If you have decided to clean your coins, clean them the same day they are discovered to prevent corrosion from continuing to build.

A first cleaning step for any coin may be to soak it for a few minutes and wash it in clean, warm, soapy, distilled water in a plastic container, using a mild liquid dishwashing soap and a very soft toothbrush. This may be all that is necessary. To make your soapy solution, use one tablespoon dishwashing liquid soap to a pint of water in your plastic container. Remember that metal containers can cause galvanic action of dissimilar metal alloys and will damage your coins!

Accumulated dirt and grime can usually be safely removed from a coin with the application of petroleum jelly (such as Vaseline) to both sides using a cotton-tipped swab (such as a Q-tip). Carefully remove the residue with clean swabs and finish with a soft, lint-free cloth.

Isopropyl or denatured alcohol is another non-abrasive cleaner that can be used in place of grape or olive oil. Never, however, use baking soda for a cleaning rub; baking soda may make a coin shinier, but will almost always ruin the coin's numismatic value.

A good example of corrosion that should be removed is Polyvinylchloride (PVC), a chemical found in older plastic coin holders that over time leaves a green, adherent, acidic, sticky, slightly scummy, scuzz discoloration on coins. This scuzz can spread so it is best to remove it as soon as possible using an organic solvent. One such organic solvent is acetone. You must adhere strictly to the warnings shown on the container, as a solvent such as acetone (found in nail polish remover) can be dangerous. Organic solvents can be used to remove tape or adhesive residue.

Some archeologists, professional coin dealers, and metal detecting hobbyists have used ultrasonic tanks that use ultrasound waves to agitate the clean, warm, soapy, distilled water in which coins are immersed. Sound waves are more gentle than even a soft toothbrush.

Expensive, specially made, commercial coin cleaning agents are available at coin shops. These cleaners should only be used as a last resort. You should never put gold coins into jewelry cleaner. Neither should you should dip silver coins in silver dip or polish them.

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 :coinspin:UNCIRCULATED COINS

Never clean a Proof or Uncirculated coin as doing so will invariably introduce minute hairline scratches and ruin any mint luster. If there is dust on the surface, use a photographic squeeze-bulb air blower to remove it.

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 :coinspin:GOLD COINS

Gold coins, when first struck, are a bright yellow-orange color. Over a long period of time, copper and other trace elements alloyed with gold cause it to tone to a deep orange color, possibly with light brown or orange-brown streaks. Light toning does not affect the value of a gold coin.

Being of a "noble metal" that doesn't itself react chemically with its environment, gold coins are not likely to discolor during cleaning although a centuries-old tone could be removed. Wash carefully in clean, warm, soapy, distilled water with a fluffy cotton washcloth or very soft toothbrush. Because gold is softer than silver, be careful even when using a soft toothbrush for cleaning, as any grit present it will make minute scratches on the surface.

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 :coinspin:CLEANING SILVER COINS

Silver coins, when newly minted, have a bright silvery-white surface. A chemically active metal, silver tends to tone deep brown to black. Circulated silver coins will often have a dull gray appearance, sometimes with a deep gray or black area. Silver coins acquire a blue, green, or violet oil-like tone through tarnishing that can enhance the appearance and desirability of an old silver coin and should not be cleaned.
Many collectors will not buy silver coins that look as if they have been cleaned. When tarnish becomes dark brown or black, and a coin's design is hard to see, there may be some desirability to cleaning it using non-harsh methods, but never with an abrasive paste or cloth.

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 :coinspin:Clean dark silver coins with ammonia, vinegar, rubbing alcohol, lemon juice or polish remover with aceton. Allow coins to soak in a container of the liquid until any dirt or encrustation has been dislodged.
Air-dry or pat them dry with a soft, clean cloth. Do not rub or polish. This may scratch the surface of the coin and will remove metal from the coin's surface. Any wear or scratches will decrease the value of your coin!

Note that silver coins can oxidize rapidly, especially in the presence of sulfur, such as is found in paper products. Some oxidized toning can be desirable but black silver coins are not. Only store your coins in proper containers, such as 2-inch by 2-inch sulfur-free envelopes available at coin dealers.

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 :coinspin:CLEANING COPPER COINS

Copper is among the most chemically active of all coinage metals. When a copper coin is first struck it has a brilliant pale orange surface and turns brown when circulated.

Copper coins tend to look worse after being cleaned and are more easily ruined than gold or silver coins. When absolutely necessary, clean dirty, green crusted, badly corroded copper coins without scrubbing them. Try soaking them in grape oil (or olive oil if grape oil is not available).

Some results can be obtained in one to four days, but don't be afraid to wait several weeks, months, or even a year for desired results. Remember, some of the green patina may be desirable in a copper coin. Although not so much a problem in Colorado, the prudent collector in a humid climate does not collect red copper coins which oxidize badly. Even in Colorado, it is wise to keep a desiccant in proximity to brown copper coins to absorb air moisture. Every six months, check your copper coins and stroke them with a soft camel's hair brush, such as is used on photographic lenses.

Another way to clean copper coins, use a product (available from any good coin supplier) called MS70. Use rubber gloves, this stuff will dry out your skin. It is safe, but if whatever is on the coin is stubborn, the coin can be soaked for days and even weeks in the MS70. You may use a soft toothbrush that will not harm the coins surfaces to remove the dirt in the devices and continue soaking. When you are satisfied with the coin's appearance, neutralize the MS70 from the coin with baking soda and warm running water. Dry the coin thoroughly and then apply a coat of Blue Ribbon coin cleaner and preservative, and let it dry for several days (or as long as it takes). Wipe any excess off with soft cotton balls, and store in safe cardboard 2 x 2's with the clear centers (use the ones that staple shut, not the self stick, that glue dries out and may not be safe). Make sure that the supplier tells you that the 2 x 2's you bought from him are safe. If the coin is somewhat discolored, you can use Dellar's Darkener after the soaking in MS70. Wipe any excess off and let it dry for days, or as long as it takes so that no more can be removed from the coin with a cotton ball. Use this before the Blue Ribbon until the coin is satisfactory to you. The Blue Ribbon is a cleaner also, and may remove some of the darkener, but the end result will be a beautifully clean and conserved coin for your collection.

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 :coinspin:NICKEL COINS

Nickel coins, when first minted, are dull silver in appearance, not as bright as silver. Circulated nickel coins have a gray appearance. Nickel coins are best cleaned with clean, warm, soapy, distilled water and a soft toothbrush. For stubbornly stained nickel coins, ammonia, diluted 3 to 1 with distilled water, has been used successfully.

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 :coinspin:STEEL COINS

Steel cents actually rust in the presence of humidity. Although difficult to store properly, "steelies" were made in such large quantities that they are never likely to become rare.

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tellomon

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not snipe
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*Yibida*

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not snipe

What are you doing on a coin thread?....you said you never got any?....

misha

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Lots there to consider... and coming from the US where there seems to be a fascination for cleaning and polishing them up on a Sunday morning.

True... I expect at least 90% of the coins I buy from the US to have been cleaned harshly.

One thing not noted is that harsh cleaning will destroy any remaining trace of 'mint lustre'... a surface characteristic seen on new coins that can remain for well over 100years if stored correctly.

The other rule which is important in terms of online trading is:
If you have cleaned it don't fail to mention the fact when listing the item for sale.  
Yes, the realised price will be lower, and disclosing the 'handy work' will save you the neg response when the buyer looks at the coin under a magnifying lens, which is sure to happen.

Anyhow, I have a new method of cleaning them but more so towards the intent of conservation
NOT 'restoration'.
It targets the green corrosion known as verdigris.... dissolves it.
This chemical solution works well with any coin containing copper in the alloy....  that includes 925 Sterling silver.  
Your 'silver' pocket change in Australia is over 80% copper and the $1 & $2 coins have even more copper in the alloy.

We hear of other chemical agents that can clean this curse off coins, but they are harsh and can eat the copper like acid and take copper or bronze back to a raw metal pink colour... not exactly 'natural' or desirable.

There are two sure ways to grow green corrosion on copper.... one is cleaning them and subsequent contamination from urine, wine or beer... as you know, all known as piss.
pobox486cronulla@hotmail.com    I have NO HERO'S or IDOLS.  I will question everything and anyone having faith only in myself.

misha

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pobox486cronulla@hotmail.com    I have NO HERO'S or IDOLS.  I will question everything and anyone having faith only in myself.

tellomon

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What are you doing on a coin thread?...  :hijack:


Here.. feed the drummer.   :topic:


:coinspin:
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misha

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OK... here, IN REAL TIME.

These coins were found today while I was seeking out an electrical fault under the floor or a Bar.
Horrible wet claustrophobic place to be... yes I am short on tolerance today.
These will be placed in the 'solution' and rephotographed later today. 
Might take 2hrs... maybe longer as I have a lot of building services work here to do today.

Total value: AU $17.05
Australian coin collectors know that there is the possibility that a $1 could be worth $250 if it were the correct error type. No luck here today.


 
pobox486cronulla@hotmail.com    I have NO HERO'S or IDOLS.  I will question everything and anyone having faith only in myself.

*Ubbie Max*

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Hey Misha. you found enough cash to buy a carton of Pepsi Max (on special at Big W), or 4.85 Pluto Pups at $3.50 each.

*smee*

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hey one of those $2 coins looks like the one I dropped in a pub in Brunswick
what bar are you in ?

tellomon

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Nice cufflinks and tietacks!
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*barny*

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Re: How to Coiner the market..... Coinerz please feel free to add content.....
« Reply #10 on: October 09, 2009, 04:19:35 PM »
OK... here, IN REAL TIME.

These coins were found today while I was seeking out an electrical fault under the floor or a Bar.
Horrible wet claustrophobic place to be... yes I am short on tolerance today.
These will be placed in the 'solution' and rephotographed later today. 
Might take 2hrs... maybe longer as I have a lot of building services work here to do today.

Total value: AU $17.05
Australian coin collectors know that there is the possibility that a $1 could be worth $250 if it were the correct error type. No luck here today.


 


I'm pretty sure I dropped most of those...

Please credit my Paypal account accordingly.

 :wine:
If you try to fail, and succeed, what have you done ??

tellomon

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Re: How to Coiner the market..... Coinerz please feel free to add content.....
« Reply #11 on: October 09, 2009, 04:23:38 PM »
All suspects present and accounted for, Captain Yib!

Nice place ya couldda had here.

We're not dissin' the Coinerz.

We're busting your chops, again, and thx for leaving the doors unlocked, Bro.!
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misha

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Re: How to Coiner the market..... Coinerz please feel free to add content.....
« Reply #12 on: October 09, 2009, 04:26:21 PM »
Ha !
Under those conditions it's finders keepers folks.
Same goes if it's a 1917 Penny.. the last coin found under there with a metal detector.

Seriously dirty place to be.
It's an apprentice type job I got stuck with.

Buys me coffee and chocolate on special at Coles.
pobox486cronulla@hotmail.com    I have NO HERO'S or IDOLS.  I will question everything and anyone having faith only in myself.

tellomon

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Re: How to Coiner the market..... Coinerz please feel free to add content.....
« Reply #13 on: October 09, 2009, 04:29:07 PM »
Under those conditions it's finders keepers folks.


Ya got us on that one, Mate!  :t2:
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*barny*

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Re: How to Coiner the market..... Coinerz please feel free to add content.....
« Reply #14 on: October 09, 2009, 04:29:30 PM »
While your here Misha,

I have an 1897 Morgan dollar matched with a 1997 Silver Eagle dollar, in a presentation plastic case sent to me by a friend in the USA... Both are certified as Unc.

Any idea of value ???

 :wine:
If you try to fail, and succeed, what have you done ??

*Yibida*

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Re: How to Coiner the market..... Coinerz please feel free to add content.....
« Reply #15 on: October 09, 2009, 04:37:07 PM »
All suspects present and accounted for, Captain Yib!

Nice place ya couldda had here.

We're not dissin' the Coinerz.

We're busting your chops, again, and thx for leaving the doors unlocked, Bro.!



Tello Ya know were gunna end up in the sin bin..this was just a reconnaissance mission...no animals were harmed in any way..lost some good pluto pups @ lunch time tho...

tellomon

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Re: How to Coiner the market..... Coinerz please feel free to add content.....
« Reply #16 on: October 09, 2009, 04:47:26 PM »
..this was just a reconnaissance mission..

Not anymore.
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*cupie*

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Re: How to Coiner the market..... Coinerz please feel free to add content.....
« Reply #17 on: October 09, 2009, 04:48:26 PM »
Tello Ya know were gunna end up in the sin bin.

Where ya both belong....and anyway, I'm bored...let's party...




tellomon

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Re: How to Coiner the market..... Coinerz please feel free to add content.....
« Reply #18 on: October 09, 2009, 04:51:45 PM »
In the SB!
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*cupie*

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Re: How to Coiner the market..... Coinerz please feel free to add content.....
« Reply #19 on: October 09, 2009, 05:11:39 PM »
After you....


gr8-expectations

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Re: How to Coiner the market..... Coinerz please feel free to add content.....
« Reply #20 on: October 09, 2009, 05:15:08 PM »
OK... here, IN REAL TIME.

These coins were found today while I was seeking out an electrical fault under the floor or a Bar.
Horrible wet claustrophobic place to be... yes I am short on tolerance today.
These will be placed in the 'solution' and rephotographed later today. 
Might take 2hrs... maybe longer as I have a lot of building services work here to do today.

Total value: AU $17.05
Australian coin collectors know that there is the possibility that a $1 could be worth $250 if it were the correct error type. No luck here today.


 


at least he was under a bar ...

tellomon

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Re: How to Coiner the market..... Coinerz please feel free to add content.....
« Reply #21 on: October 09, 2009, 05:16:37 PM »
Cue: Can't I just go down in flames and take you with me?

Sheesh! Can't you wait until Yib kicks it off first?
(It's his freeking thread!)
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misha

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Re: How to Coiner the market..... Coinerz please feel free to add content.....
« Reply #22 on: October 09, 2009, 05:19:47 PM »
While your here Misha,

I have an 1897 Morgan dollar matched with a 1997 Silver Eagle dollar, in a presentation plastic case sent to me by a friend in the USA... Both are certified as Unc.

Any idea of value ???

 :wine:


Sorry... if they are not bullion grade I have no idea.  
I can consult a US seller who has a Morgan for me at VG.... I just wanted an example of redundant US coinage before it is recalled for scrap metal there and hyper-inflation type notes issued instead of coins.

Seen any of the 1920's German type notes before?
I have a 2million Mark note... cost me 29c and I only have it for moments like this to contemplate 'values'.
pobox486cronulla@hotmail.com    I have NO HERO'S or IDOLS.  I will question everything and anyone having faith only in myself.

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Re: How to Coiner the market..... Coinerz please feel free to add content.....
« Reply #23 on: October 09, 2009, 05:25:46 PM »
Cue: Can't I just go down in flames and take you with me?

I'll pick and choose who I go 'down' with...I'll get back to ya !!!

Sheesh! Can't you wait until Yib kicks it off first?

Baaa.....Baaaa.....Black Sheep !!!  Who's yib the ringmaster?


tellomon

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Re: How to Coiner the market..... Coinerz please feel free to add content.....
« Reply #24 on: October 09, 2009, 05:27:04 PM »
:poop:
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misha

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Re: How to Coiner the market..... Coinerz please feel free to add content.....
« Reply #25 on: October 09, 2009, 05:31:05 PM »
:poop:

Is that the new currency standard there?

Once upon a time it was Gold and Silver you know.
pobox486cronulla@hotmail.com    I have NO HERO'S or IDOLS.  I will question everything and anyone having faith only in myself.

tellomon

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Re: How to Coiner the market..... Coinerz please feel free to add content.....
« Reply #26 on: October 09, 2009, 05:32:36 PM »
"The B@zturd Love Child of Comix & a News Organization"

*cupie*

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Re: How to Coiner the market..... Coinerz please feel free to add content.....
« Reply #27 on: October 09, 2009, 05:34:25 PM »
Thanks Misha..I was trying to come up with something equally witty on a coin thread...but lost the coin toss....

Maybe he's talking about Poopal?

mandurahmum

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Re: How to Coiner the market..... Coinerz please feel free to add content.....
« Reply #28 on: October 09, 2009, 05:37:24 PM »
I have an 1897 Morgan dollar matched with a 1997 Silver Eagle dollar, in a presentation plastic case sent to me by a friend in the USA... Both are certified as Unc.

Any idea of value ???


Do they have a mint mark on them - a smallish letter that has been pressed onto the coin

tellomon

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Re: How to Coiner the market..... Coinerz please feel free to add content.....
« Reply #29 on: October 09, 2009, 05:41:21 PM »
Thanks Misha..I was trying to come up with something equally witty on a coin thread...but lost the coin toss....

Maybe he's talking about Poopal?

stupid thread
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*cupie*

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Re: How to Coiner the market..... Coinerz please feel free to add content.....
« Reply #30 on: October 09, 2009, 05:49:55 PM »
Thanks Misha..I was trying to come up with something equally witty on a coin thread...but lost the coin toss....

Maybe he's talking about Poopal?

stupid thread


tellomon

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Re: How to Coiner the market..... Coinerz please feel free to add content.....
« Reply #31 on: October 09, 2009, 05:53:45 PM »
When the Holidaze show up, you will forget ALL about this stuff.
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*barny*

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Re: How to Coiner the market..... Coinerz please feel free to add content.....
« Reply #32 on: October 09, 2009, 07:04:25 PM »
I have an 1897 Morgan dollar matched with a 1997 Silver Eagle dollar, in a presentation plastic case sent to me by a friend in the USA... Both are certified as Unc.

Any idea of value ???


Do they have a mint mark on them - a smallish letter that has been pressed onto the coin


Hi Mum,

The Morgan has an "M" mint mark, on the neck of the efigy of "Liberty" just where the last strand of hair meets the neck...

The Silver eagle has a mint mark looks like an upper case "J" followed by three vertical lines, and is positioned near the right hand claw of the eagle.

Cheers
If you try to fail, and succeed, what have you done ??

tellomon

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Re: How to Coiner the market..... Coinerz please feel free to add content.....
« Reply #33 on: October 09, 2009, 07:16:10 PM »
Two Zombies walk into Yib's Bar.

 :castle: :marvin: :beer: :arr:

:zombiesuit: :zombiesuit:
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mandurahmum

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Re: How to Coiner the market..... Coinerz please feel free to add content.....
« Reply #34 on: October 09, 2009, 07:32:08 PM »
The mintmark for the morgan dollar will be between the d and o of the word dollar - flip it over please.

The silver eagle - looks between the e and s of fine silver.

misha

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Re: How to Coiner the market..... Coinerz please feel free to add content.....
« Reply #35 on: October 09, 2009, 07:56:24 PM »
OK... real time.

Sorry but I've had work to do here and somewhat delayed.

These have been in the verdigris cleaning solution and rinsed. 
Residue washed off with water and a light wipe with a dish cloth.
All these coins were corroded with verdigris.  Not a trace now.
They could be worked on further. This is the bare minimum needed.
The black/red stuff remaining is copper oxide or some organic residue.
That 20c piece is badly affected and displays patches of raw copper from the Cupro/Nickle alloy.






Monetary Value: AU $17.05
Knowledge Value:  priceless
pobox486cronulla@hotmail.com    I have NO HERO'S or IDOLS.  I will question everything and anyone having faith only in myself.

mandurahmum

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Re: How to Coiner the market..... Coinerz please feel free to add content.....
« Reply #36 on: October 09, 2009, 08:12:01 PM »
Misha - I have messaged you here.

misha

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Re: How to Coiner the market..... Coinerz please feel free to add content.....
« Reply #37 on: October 09, 2009, 08:16:06 PM »
Here is a coin treated for someone that trades on OZtion & eBay.
There was a thread on the OZoo boards until ratbags infected it.
I took down a lot of images in that thread when sanctioned.
Their loss. Direct abuse at admin there for not listening to my side of the story as well as the silly old chooks and forum bullies. Idiots.

So... same coin here. 1964 1d - Verdigris both sides. Worse on the leg of roo.
Before and after and in low light to capture the tone.
Crusty V scab was removed after treatment.
Some pitting evident under the scab, but this is still a pretty one of little 'value'.
Good for a key ring I suppose.



High res:  http://s220.photobucket.com/albums/dd149/BrunswickWA/?action=view&current=Rob1.jpg
pobox486cronulla@hotmail.com    I have NO HERO'S or IDOLS.  I will question everything and anyone having faith only in myself.

*barny*

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Re: How to Coiner the market..... Coinerz please feel free to add content.....
« Reply #38 on: October 10, 2009, 06:12:51 PM »
The mintmark for the morgan dollar will be between the d and o of the word dollar - flip it over please.

The silver eagle - looks between the e and s of fine silver.

G'Day again Mum..

Sorry I didn't get back to you earlier... I have looked where you suggested with my light loupe, and there is no mintmarks in either place..

 :wine:
If you try to fail, and succeed, what have you done ??

*barny*

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Re: How to Coiner the market..... Coinerz please feel free to add content.....
« Reply #39 on: October 10, 2009, 07:52:43 PM »
Me again Mum,

I have just finished doing a bit of research on my Morgan dollar...

the 1897 year mintage (according to Wiki) dint have a mintmark.... and another website gives a table of values... If indeed mine is Unc.  value = US$35.00

So they are pretty common..

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If you try to fail, and succeed, what have you done ??

tellomon

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Re: How to Coiner the market..... Coinerz please feel free to add content.....
« Reply #40 on: October 10, 2009, 09:12:55 PM »
I DON'T CARE ANYMORE.
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