The ELECTION Thread

[mandurahmum]

You know shyer, it offends my intelligence, and no doubt others who believe in a 'fair go' for all Aussies rather than just themselves, to be called commies.  What it demonstrates is your own ignorance mate.  Define what it is you think a commie is, and how Gillard resembles either the philosophy on one hand, vs the policies adopted by and imposed by Communist states on the other in actual practice?  Do you even appreciate the difference?  (See China example on this Morning's news to see the difference in real time) I object to China's communist regime and its human rights violations against its own people.  We will never see that kind of injustice here. 

I agree - at least this time they did not use a ridiculously large font to express their 'opinion'.

I think its childish to call people names, just because they have a different opinion to others.

It also adds nothing to the debate

[*smee*]

 If there IS more to it, then I suggest to you that it should be debated by all three parties with any influence, Right Left and Green.

well based on the info contained in the link it appears as though there may well be more to it ...

Smee, these figures were publicly released and apparently the public is supposed to believe everything printed in the media

Yes they were publically released but that is only one section of the figures
as I said you cant just pluck the parts of the figures that suit a particular arguement the bigger picture needs to be taken into consideration

[Rebel*1*]

In the meantime they use the wealth they gain from our resources to EXPLOIT and Molest the election Process?  How many industries actually take on a Govt. via the media?  Only the richest right?  The POWERFUL mining industry.  the Ones who are ACTUALLY running this country.  I say the Mining mouths need to but out of this election.  Threatening productivity?  Oh give me a break. They can't mine it without creating jobs.  The value of the commodity vs the labour market cost of mining it (whether via Australian workers or imported workers) are two separate things  The mining industry rely more on us than we do on them.  Argue that logic.  They are however, the only industry in Australia, able to topple a PM and divert the outcome of a Federal Election = 22 Million vs the Powerful mining lobby and what they're prepared to do to prejudice this election?.  

No offense intended. I'm just saying that if you apply standards to one party then apply them to the other for the NATIONAL interest. Be an informed voter.  We are all Aussies.  And we're ALL under pressure.  That's a fact.  Rural Aussies in particular.  We need to fund infrastructure upgrade Smee, and if we charge an adequate amount for our mineral wealth, (which Rudd campaigned for in the first place and was then met with the mining industry's 'media based FEAR campaign' over the bag of beads known as jobs)  then you and I will be paying for it.  Irrespective of our political leanings.   It's in the National Interest for the Mining Lobby to BUTT OUT, of this election and expect to pay their fair share under ALP.  Under Liberal, our infrastructure is what is going to suffer.  Can't you see that?  Liberal Labour, who cares?  We're Aussies in the same leaky boat !!! The only way to fund infrastructure is to charge more for our unrenewable resources.  Not my argument, even the Greens have outlined that fact.   IT'S ALL going OS.  unbelievable.

[bnwt]

Rebel

I am not posting propaganda rather I am highlighting examples of labor's blunders ... labor keep handing it out on a platter

honestly I am dumbfounded at how badly their campaign is being run ........... every day they deliver a fresh load of ammo for Abbott to use against them

I expect they will be another good leak this week ... most likely on friday - just in time to do maximum damage for when the pollsters do their interviews

[Rebel*1*]

I am not posting propaganda rather I am highlighting examples of labor's blunders ... labor keep handing it out on a platter

Unfortunately that's all you offer.  Biased Liberal party propaganda. Nothing objective.  As I said, when I get the time in coming days I'll post historical links to the ways in which the LIbs have played dirty pool.

In the interim, Are you willing to actually address on your own merit the issues I've just presented?  Or are you a media marionette?  Only posting your opinion by defacto and by way of biased negative media propaganda that serves your own agenda??  

Do you agree that Australia Needs National Infrastructure Upgrade = investment?  

How do you propose that this necessary upgrade should be funded? By us?  Are you actually able to have an opinion of your own?  Can you deny that Australia (left right indifferent) needs infrastructure funding?   Can you dispute that Australia's own Mineral wealth could and should be funding this?  I don't care about political leanings I care about Australia realising her own Wealth and our people no longer having to fund infrastructure that the Mining companies are robbing us of at such a pittance.  Email the Greens if you care to debate this objectively,  I'm sure they'll explain their policy on this specific issue.   The mining companies are the only winners in all this.

[*smee*]

How many industries actually take on a Govt. via the media?  Only the richest right?  The POWERFUL mining industry.  the Ones who are ACTUALLY running this country

I agree , but the same could be said about the unions , and the Labor party seem to be heavily infuenced by them and dont mind when they campaign against an old Liberal policy ..... workchoice etc

you cant have it one way and not the other


Once again I am not saying I agree with work choices , merely debating the difference/similarities between the advertising campains of the mining companies v's those of the Unions and what influence they have

[Rebel*1*]

LOL, now unionism?  Give me a break smee, they have a minimal role in the workforce generally, you know that.  Membership is something less than 20% of the National labour force, but as usual I'm sure I'll have to go check that right?     This whole union thing is all ARTIFACT.  Scare mongering.  You are no doubt a worker as am I.  Do we deserve a fair shake in any employment contract ?  or not?  Should the conditions favour the employer only? or be equally equitable to the worker????????.  Can we agree on that much, devoid of the tiny percentage of union members in most industries generally?  Do we deserve fair work conditions and recourse when employers bite?  Well, Howard abolished that basic right.    Work choices undermined our rights of 100 years (INCLUDING Workers compensation rights).  All workers have now is what they've managed to 'rake back' under the reinstated labour Govt that installed those basic work rights in the first place.  As  a worker, I ask you, are you willing to assume a forward position for the sake of an employer?  Or would you expect to have some rights of fair recourse represented in legislation????? 

[Rebel*1*]

Yes they were publically released but that is only one section of the figures
as I said you cant just pluck the parts of the figures that suit a particular arguement the bigger picture needs to be taken into consideration

I AM looking at the bigger picture.  According to bnwt and others we need to take anything printed in media as 'Gospel'.  On that basis, it seems to me that those figures must therefore be GOSPEL' and  the Libs have yet to refute those figures.   Have they?  Brown has come out confirming it in his campaign launch.  Am I asking too much to have the LIbs deny it?  When our infrastructure is literally crippled after 12 years of Johnny robbing the National Infrastructure to achieve a surplus on our sweat, whilst improving nothing?  Oh, that is , other than RECORD profits to Australia's elite 200 richest?  What a hero?  Fiddle on Nero.  We'll all go get the fire hoses out.

[*smee*]

On that basis, it seems to me that those figures must therefore be GOSPEL' and  the Libs have yet to refute those figures.   Have they?

Have you read the rest of the article that I linked up there ^^^^^^^ that puts these figures into a differebt light to what you have portrayed ... you have plucked the figures only that suit your arguement ... read the rest ....

 You are no doubt a worker as am I.... that is an incorrect assumption ,  I am not a worker , I have been a worker but most of my working life has been in the role of the employer , at present I am early retired but may well be back in either capacity at some stage over the next 20 years of my working life that I have  .... butI  have had heaps to do with unions ..... unoinism is not a bad thing if operated properly , but somewhere along the line the union officials got their roles mixed up ... in short instead of the unions now acting based on what the employees/their members  want and ask the union to do they now instigate things and tell their members ... you just have to listen to these union leaders like Joe Macdonald or whatever his name is from the CMEFU in WA when these guys refer to the members they say MY   members not our members ...its all about them .... very few union decisions are now based on what the members actually want more what they are told they have to do .....anyhow thats not the point ...you seem quite happy that the unions can run an ad campaign against Liberal but not the mining ind  against Labor .

you appear to have 2 sets of rules

[mandurahmum]

smee - your so right about Joe Macdonald - he is the type of union leader that gives unions a bad name.  He is just a thug imo.

I do know about this man personally - I used to work for an asbestos removal company - and I am sure that the members of that union would be shocked at some of the things that went on.

I could also say the same about Kevin Reynolds - he is also no saint imo.

I wish I had kept some sort of proof - I could have brought him down - big time

[*smee*]

yes MM Kevin Reynolds was the one I was initially thinking of but his name eluded me ...

him and Macdonald both pissinthesamepot anyway

[mandurahmum]

yes MM Kevin Reynolds was the one I was initially thinking of but his name eluded me ...

him and Macdonald both pissinthesamepot anyway

They certainly do - it has always surprised me that they were not outed a long time ago. 

[bnwt]

Rebel

I realise you wont like my response to your question "Are you willing to actually address on your own merit the issues I've just presented"?

I can hear you gasp when I tell you the issues talked about in an election campaign are of little concern to the average voter

let me put it this way ........ imagine it's more like two singers performing a song

it's all about the performance, the lighting, the costumes, the way they present themselves on the stage ... while the meaning of the words in the verses are worth some points the listener will have forgotten them when they actually put their pencils on the ballot paper ... they might recall some of the chorus words if they are catchy and have been repeated enough

like it or not .................. it's all about show biz - not 10,000 word political manifestos

one clever image or clever line is far more effective

like "record spending, record debt & getting rid of kevin rudd in record time"

let me say it again who ever is running labor's campaign don't have a clue ... they keep providing fantastic material to work with  ( old julia vs new julia ) ... what idiot told her to say she's now "new" julia
 

[Rebel*1*]

Lol, without the labour party initially, kids would be cleaning chimney's lol.  what it is today represents no more than 20%, of the workforce nationally, but as LOBBY GROUPS GO, that's a significant amount of working people who DO subscribe to union COLLECTIVE BARGAINING?  the other 80% of the workforce are on their own by their own volition, but they can thank the ALP for having set the standards of FAIR work conditions and rights from their very beginnings.  what do libs have in their history that distinguishes them in terms of similar social equity in the name of egalitarianism ???

Would you like to hear about work conditions before the ALP formed a collective resistance against such unfairness?  Historically and factually speaking that is.  i  You'll have to give me a few days to educate you as I have other things to do.

[Rebel*1*]

LOL, I'm not gasping, I'm amazed that you think a National election has anything to do with such subjective bullshit.  I'm voting on what is good for Australia.  There in a nutshell, is where my loyalties exist.  Liberal labour greens who cares.  We (The Aussie People) need infrastructure NATIONWIDE, and we have adequate resources to fund that.   The only question is, who is standing in the way of us getting our fair share?  Libs?  The powerful elite mining lobby who?  Do you deny that we need major infrastructure investment?.  Bnwt, I've seen you flip flop everytime something objective is presented in argument to your obviously biased liberal view.  Is it time to PERHAPS consider the more egalitarian views of others?  like your fellow Aussies? Or Are we NOT an Egalitarian society?  You choose.

[Poddy]

Hey Reb,

Are you saying that the Labs are relying on their past laurals?

Past history is but a mere indication of what has happened and is in no way an indication of that past performance continuing into the future.

I could remind you of the Whitlam years the Hawke years and the Keeting years not a [pretty sight huh ?

[Rebel*1*]

Well if you feel that the Whitlam years have anything to do with this election, in 2010 then  do tell !!!

[Poddy]

Ummm......

You have missed the point completely.

You were dredginig past performance of the labour movment an what I was pointing out that past performance has nothing to do with expected future performance.

Carpe diem

[callostemma]

Unfortunately   the younger generation  vote for a party which fulfills their needs or ideals at the time.   As they age they continue to vote for this party regardless of how the party politics change .  My dad is still voting for the Liberal party of his youth, and those policies.     People still see the labour party as the working peoples champion,  the greens for the enviroment  etc  First impressions seem to be lasting impressions

[Poddy]

Elections are all smoke and mirrors each candidate tries to hold up a distorted mirror image of their opponent and they produce smoke out of their nether regions to hide their own faults.

Modern day elections are an illusionary and false display of democracy in action.

[Rebel*1*]

I only know you by your rather negative reputation on the net in certain circles Poddy.  do you have an axe to grind perhaps?  Or do you intend to debate the issues objectively as I do?

[*r3830*]

Elections are all smoke and mirrors each candidate tries to hold up a distorted mirror image of their opponent and they produce smoke out of their nether regions to hide their own faults.

Poddy - can I borrow the above statement? Will put it to good use..... I promise!

I only know you by your rather negative reputation on the net in certain circles Poddy.  do you have an axe to grind perhaps?

Is the above statement an example of Labor imagination rebel?

[Poddy]

Oh dear !!

Do you mean that my infamy is plastered all over the internet?

Isn't it amazing how misunderstanding ones intentions can be taken as fact by some misinformed people.

Lucky that the opinion of misinformed people has no effect on informed people

What gives you the impression that in have 'an axe to grind'?

[Poddy]

Freddie, be my guest

But I have been just informed that in certain circles i am infamous

[*r3830*]

Many thanks Poddy - and good to see you by the way. It's been quite a while!

[Poddy]

Yes it has been a while, real life needed attendind to

[Rebel*1*]

Your reputation precedes you.  sure to make sure you're never late no doubt.  Care to impede my account on your subjective grounds alone?  that would in fact be in keeping with your reputation, so I'd expect that.  Hey general members, If I don't post anymore.  I'm sure you can put together what happened. LOL.  Poddy didn't like me.  what a shame.   I've heard on the grapevine that he actually runs this forum.  I thought the countess ran the joint.  Must have been misinformed?   Is hearsay admissible on this thread of hearsay?

[*r3830*]

Your reputation precedes you.  sure to make sure you're never late no doubt.  Care to impede my account on your subjective grounds alone?  that would in fact be in keeping with your reputation, so I'd expect that.  Hey general members, If I don't post anymore.  I'm sure you can put together what happened. LOL.  Poddy didn't like me.  what a shame.   I've heard on the grapevine that he actually runs this forum.  I thought the countess ran the joint.  Must have been misinformed?   Is hearsay admissible on this thread of hearsay?

Feel so inclined to debate me or 'cupie' whoever that person be, openly here and now?  And if you suspect me to be this person, why not present evidence to GENERAL members as to how you have come to that conclusion accusing an equally 'general member' as being deserving of your obvious disdain? On your own? or via more covert and collective means?  Do you know something everyday members on this forum don't?   Please, tell us all.  Oh and equally, tell everyone why this 'cupie' person is deserved of your prejudice.  I'm sure we're all dying to know.

If you have any respect or decorum whatsoever in your purely subjective attack, then I suggest you contact me via email to state your allegations, assumptions or whatever else and why that has any relevance to my involvement here as an 'everyday' otherwise, unprivileged member, such as yourself.  For that matter, why it has relevance to my opinion generally as an 'everyday' member.  Boy are you a powerful duck eh?  I feel sorry for this 'cupie' person if you are so hell bent on being so personally vindictive.  Glad I'm not that person.  Or can you demonstrate otherwise?

Rebel...... Would you please care to explain the above comments??? It concerns me greatly when I'm not sure just what a debate is about.

[Poddy]

Pray tell where this 'reputatiion' is gleened from?

 Hey general members, If I don't post anymore.  I'm sure you can put together what happened. LOL.  Poddy didn't like me.

Is the above statement your opinion? On what grounds?
Reb I don't even know you, unless you are here incognito, are you?

[Rebel*1*]

Well according to the standards of this thread, and this forum no justification is needed.  LOL   I hear you run the place and many aren't happy with your brand of cough cough 'fairness'.  Works for Tony, but of course as with Laurie Oaks, I can't really reveal my sources you understand as to who actually said those things about you Poddy?  Ask Roo and Wheels they brought it up, (and where do they stand on the hierarchy I wonder?) I'm sure they know why, they're making this 'affront' and so do you.  Care to tell everyone why you know what's really going on poddy? Of course, I can only go on what I've been told.  I'm also happy to state what I've been told if you care to push it Poddy.  Or will you act behind the scenes to make sure I can't say anything.  My gord, weren't we talking about communist philosophy earlier?  General members if I disappear you know why.  

[*r3830*]

Well according to the standards of this thread, no justification is needed.  LOL

Nice.... and probably the shortest comment you've made on this thread. Could I again refer you to my question a couple of posts back......

[Rebel*1*]

Rebel...... Would you please care to explain the above comments??? It concerns me greatly when I'm not sure just what a debate is about.

Yes absoluetely when i stop having to defend myself against subjective 'parochial' attack. Ask poddy how parochial it actually gets.  General members are not privy apparently to what is motivating this.  But some know.  They're just not telling you.  lol

[Rebel*1*]

If Rebel*1* disappears you'll know that just like Aussie Politics, more influential and bias forces are at work.  Lets' see how it all pans out with one against how many?

[Poddy]

Reb, you are not making a whole lot of sense.

May I reiterate my earlier post?


Reb I don't even know you, unless you are here incognito, are you?

Or will answering that question truthfully compromise the view of your own integrity?

[mandurahmum]

How about we just back to the topic of this thread.  And lets the personal attacks and other bullshit out of it.  Its unncessary

[Poddy]

Good idea Mandi

[Rebel*1*]

You might walk that way then too Poddy?

Thank you MM. my sentiments exactly.  I was just minding my own business until otherwise 'attacked by a so called moderator of this site. (so I've heard)  Not a good look really.  Maybe a muzzle would help.  I apologise to those reading this who have no involvement with the 'internal parochialism' of this site.  I was merely defending myself against what I've heard that same parochialism can entail against every day members.  Isn't hearsay a biatch?

[*Brum6y*]

Rebel*1, I am at a loss at understanding how some questions from a member who has had no interaction with you on this site (certainly none on the boards that I have observed) could evoke such a dramatic reaction.

When you say 'attacked', I am at a further loss ... All I have seen are some questions and comments on this thread that are no more or less direct references to the thread discussion, as per the title.


I'm with MM on this ... at least with the political discussion, the guidelines are clearer.

[*r3830*]

pa·ro·chi·al  (p-rk-l)
adj.
1. Of, relating to, supported by, or located in a parish.
2. Of or relating to parochial schools.
3. Narrowly restricted in scope or outlook; provincial: parochial attitudes.


Rebel...... Are you saying that you have joined a new church...... or you're going back into studies again..... or you're stepping back into the box?

[Rebel*1*]

Ask poddy loco, as far as I've been told he knows much more about it than you and I do as mere unprivileged general members.  I won't elaborate, I call upon my detractors to tell you why they are attacking me.. Come on guys?  Lost your backbone? Tell Loco why these allegations and taunts have been leveled and where from , and what they are based on.  I await such illumination in the face of obvious discrimination as a member of this forum.  I'm sure those attacking me can explain their subjective discrimination from behind the scenes.  LOL

[*Brum6y*]

in the face of obvious discrimination as a member of this forum.

I have only seen political argument to-ing and fro-ing ... and the challenge of facts, figures and all that stuff.

I can't see any discrimination, no matter how hard I try ... it's certainly not 'obvious'.  What am I missing?

[Rebel*1*]

Go to the Paymate thread re: wheels and Roo's comments.  I WAS discussing Aussie Politics until OZRT politics obviously interceded and since it has,  Why don't you long standing 'and otherwise privileged members' making these subjective issues focal, explain how that happened to a 'general member'?  I'm sure other general members would be similarly curious.   Who's really running this site Brumby?  Countessa or other factions?

[*r3830*]

Yes - what brumby said!

This set out as a political discussion - as you earlier described - a debate. The old rule of thumb was that one should never argue politics or religion.... as these things were generally pretty deeply rooted in personal opinion and belief. But - a  debate is just that - it's not a personal thing.... or it shouldn't be taken as such, but all players have the opportunity to gain further insight or knowledge from it. Between the lines - I think you would know that rebel.

Rebel...... answer this one honestly..... ARE YOU REALLY TELLO IN DISGUISE????? 

[*Brum6y*]

Who's really running this site Brumby?  Countessa or other factions?

Why nominate me? I have nothing special to do with this site.

[Poddy]

Reb,

Seeing that you only paid lip service to Mandi's request even though you agreed that it was a good idea,

You have condinued to air what you believe to be attacks on you.

You seem to have singled me out as your attacker.

The following is a copy of all the posts made by me in this whread, please point out what exactly you concider an attack.



Hey Reb,

Are you saying that the Labs are relying on their past laurals?

Past history is but a mere indication of what has happened and is in no way an indication of that past performance continuing into the future.

I could remind you of the Whitlam years the Hawke years and the Keeting years not a [pretty sight huh ?

________________________________________________

Ummm......

You have missed the point completely.

You were dredginig past performance of the labour movment an what I was pointing out that past performance has nothing to do with expected future performance.

Carpe diem

___________________________________________________      
Oh dear !!

Do you mean that my infamy is plastered all over the internet?

Isn't it amazing how misunderstanding ones intentions can be taken as fact by some misinformed people.

Lucky that the opinion of misinformed people has no effect on informed people  

What gives you the impression that in have 'an axe to grind'?

__________________________________________________

Elections are all smoke and mirrors each candidate tries to hold up a distorted mirror image of their opponent and they produce smoke out of their nether regions to hide their own faults.

Modern day elections are an illusionary and false display of democracy in action.
__________________________________________________      
Freddie, be my guest  

But I have been just informed that in certain circles i am infamous  

______________________________________________________      



Yes it has been a while, real life needed attendind to
______________________________________

Pray tell where this 'reputatiion' is gleened from?

 Hey general members, If I don't post anymore.  I'm sure you can put together what happened. LOL.  Poddy didn't like me.

Is the above statement your opinion? On what grounds?
Reb I don't even know you, unless you are here incognito, are you?
__________________________________________________

Reb, you are not making a whole lot of sense.

May I reiterate my earlier post?


Reb I don't even know you, unless you are here incognito, are you?

Or will answering that question truthfully compromise the view of your own integrity?

__________________________________________
Good idea Mandi  
   

[*Brum6y*]

Go to the Paymate thread

Apologies.  I hadn't caught up on that thread this afternoon.

[Rebel*1*]

Yes - what brumby said!

This set out as a political discussion - as you earlier described - a debate. The old rule of thumb was that one should never argue politics or religion.... as these things were generally pretty deeply rooted in personal opinion and belief. But - a  debate is just that - it's not a personal thing.... or it shouldn't be taken as such, but all players have the opportunity to gain further insight or knowledge from it. Between the lines - I think you would know that rebel.

Rebel...... answer this one honestly..... ARE YOU REALLY TELLO IN DISGUISE?????  

LMAO no, but from what I've heard he wouldn't mind a female alter ego.  As for your remarks re: poddy it harks back to previous times when this whole forum was about his personal vendetta's against one member in particular and various other infamous members along the way, and has been ever since (or so I've been told)  hearsay really is a biatch isnt' it?  Do you really want to get down Poddy?  Your move bud, tell everyone how it is you assume you know what you know about an otherwise 'anonymous' general member'.    And then I'll tell them what I know. 

[*Brum6y*]

As for the identity allegations, I can liken that to hearing someone talking and saying "I know that voice!".  You don't need fingerprint and DNA evidence to make an identification.

I will admit that, upon reflection, I cannot argue against the allegation.  But do I have definitive proof - site logs, IP addresses, etc.?

No.

It does not mean the allegation is incorrect, just not categorically provable via available means.

[Poddy]

For "an otherwise 'anonymous' general member".

You seem to be relying a lot on what you have "been told"

You have also sidestepped my request to point out any attack made on you by me furthermore you have evaded my question asking if you are here 'incognito'

Why is that?

[Rebel*1*]

Why is it that as moderator of this site (or so I've been told) these attacks of yours are legendary?  are you a moderator on this site?  Ive' been told you are, what a shining example of objectivity, so where is your admin?   do you act outside of her sanction? Seems to me I'm being ganged up on by a moderator of this site, and the privileged members who seemingly have some other private place to discuss general members.  Just a suspicion mind you .  You are free to refute that there is such private forum on this site.   I can only go on what I've been told.    All things being equal, it also seems to me that it matches what I've been told to expect.  Poddy, if you want to tell everyone who I am,  according to your access' or evidence', then do so, Breach my privacy in your role as 'self appointed admin'  Or so I've been told.   Want to keep playing this game?  Jeese (makes note to change ID to riff raff) I'm sure that's who I'm going to be next?  We watch, we remember.    should I expect a similar assault Poddy?  Like I said, mate you're infamous and all I was doing was minding my own business.