Author Topic: The ELECTION Thread  (Read 382520 times)

*Yibida*

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Re: The ELECTION Thread
« Reply #400 on: August 01, 2010, 07:53:06 PM »

mandurahmum

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Re: The ELECTION Thread
« Reply #401 on: August 01, 2010, 07:56:18 PM »
No Yib our pollies are too busy bending over for the yanks.  That's what offends me the most I think. Our boys are over there on false pretenses in the first place, given the US history with the middle east and Bin Laden himself. And even though they've found mineral resources I bet their allies are the last on the list of those being remunerated.   They're always bloody meddling.  Just look at South America as a brilliant example of their kind of 'democracy' in action.  The middle east is just the new South America.   Who knows Yib, we could have been led into this invasion because the US already suspected there was untapped mineral wealth.  As I said earlier, not WMD's, but MMP's = Minerals of Mass profit.


exactly.  I remember that movie - love actually where the british pm tells the american president   "I love that word "relationship." Covers all manner of sins, doesn't it? I fear that this has become a bad relationship; a relationship based on the President taking exactly what he wants and casually ignoring all those things that really matter to, erm... Britain. We may be a small country, but we're a great one, too. The country of Shakespeare, Churchill, the Beatles, Sean Connery, Harry Potter. David Beckham's right foot. David Beckham's left foot, come to that. And a friend who bullies us is no longer a friend. And since bullies only respond to strength, from now onward I will be prepared to be much stronger. And the President should be prepared for that."

I would love for our pm whoever they are to have the guts to say this. ( without the english references of course)

mandurahmum

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Re: The ELECTION Thread
« Reply #402 on: August 01, 2010, 07:58:34 PM »
They did not even send anyone high up for our worst ever natural disaster memorial service - even though Hilliary was in Indonesia - I am sure that their government would have understood, had she bothered to attend.


*Ubbie Max*

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Re: The ELECTION Thread
« Reply #403 on: August 01, 2010, 08:54:24 PM »
Yib. Send Nomad & Psycho over to Afganistan, if you get my drift. They'll sort it out.

*smee*

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Re: The ELECTION Thread
« Reply #404 on: August 02, 2010, 02:09:17 AM »
I see the Dutch have just pulled thier troops out of Afganistan after 4 years , the first NATO country to do so ...will this have a flow on effect ???

bnwt

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Re: The ELECTION Thread
« Reply #405 on: August 02, 2010, 07:48:41 AM »

bnwt

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Re: The ELECTION Thread
« Reply #406 on: August 02, 2010, 07:52:27 AM »

bnwt

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Re: The ELECTION Thread
« Reply #407 on: August 02, 2010, 09:55:07 AM »

bnwt

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Re: The ELECTION Thread
« Reply #408 on: August 02, 2010, 09:57:33 AM »
Gillard won't bite on Tanner leak claims

The party has been plagued by a series of damaging leaks during the federal election campaign, but their source is still largely unknown.

http://www.smh.com.au/federal-election/the-leaders/gillard-wont-bite-on-tanner-leak-claims-20100802-111t2.html

*r3830*

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Re: The ELECTION Thread
« Reply #409 on: August 02, 2010, 10:12:23 AM »
bnwt - I'm starting to smell a Labor Red Herring campaign. More 'SPIN' at work here!

The opposition would not be silly enough to attempt to discredit Rudd, in fact, it was Abbott who attempted to contact Rudd after his removal. Now we see Ms Gillard and her cohorts saying what a bunch of barstards the Liberals are - for saying such demoralising things about poor Mr Rudd. So, they're aiming at the sympathy vote. Quite funny really - because actions speak much louder than words.... and of course, Labor did nothing but support their previous leader.... well, at least until just after dark, the day after their honest pledges of support!

As the boards reflect - very little news from the Libs. They don't need any - as labor is crashing in its own ashes at the moment.

The previous article reflects views from 2002. They had to go back a few years to find that info - didn't they.

bnwt

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Re: The ELECTION Thread
« Reply #410 on: August 02, 2010, 12:48:39 PM »



so if she is now real the Women's Weekly was


Rebel*1*

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Re: The ELECTION Thread
« Reply #411 on: August 02, 2010, 01:58:50 PM »
Soldiers are expected to say that - they are not allowed to say anything negative or even truthful.

Thats why that soldier leaked those 90,000 pages of 'confidential info'  because sometimes its the only way to get the truth out there.


I  support the strong sentiment 'against' this war, but I do feel that this was going a tad too far.  Nothing is in the public interest if it means that lives are going to be placed at risk.   The guy from Wiki leaks arrogantly agreed that he would have to consider any such deaths to be 'collateral damage' ?  What a poonce.  The least he could have done was shield the bloody names.    I think he needs a gun held up to his head by a Taliban die hard and let's see how he likes the prospect of being turned into a statistic by the same standards.

How many times has history demonstrated this scenario though?  America using informants within the population they have invaded or are attempting to manipulate, and then those informants being left high and dry when the shite hits the fan?  

Any wonder why Afghan people don't openly assist the so called US investment in their country?.  Being an ally of the yanks could get them killed. By comparison if they don't cowtow to the Taliban, that too can get them killed.   Can't win can they? They're everybody's collateral damage apparently.   I wonder if the US are going to get those people who were named (and their families), out of Afghanistan without the usual bullshit over substantiating refugee status???  lol.  

Either way, I don't think our role there should be to back up the US in a war, but to provide a peace keeping force while Afghan itself forms its own Govt, Defense and Police force and other necessary infrastructure.   They can then fight the Taliban without our help.  What we're forgetting is that they are no longer a country of poverty and therefore an 'easy target' to everyone wanting to 'lord' it up over them.  They are now independently wealthy and they need help to empower their own people to fight for peace and democracy according to their interpretation/culture/religion/history etc.


bnwt

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Re: The ELECTION Thread
« Reply #412 on: August 02, 2010, 02:55:30 PM »
Gillard questioned on citizens' assembly leak


http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2010/08/02/2971054.htm

bnwt

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Re: The ELECTION Thread
« Reply #413 on: August 02, 2010, 03:02:43 PM »
even with the Newspoll at 50/50 Tony Abbott will be PM

http://www.abc.net.au/elections/federal/2010/calculator/?swing=national&national=-2.7&nsw=0&vic=0&qld=0&wa=0&sa=0&tas=0&act=0&nt=0&retiringfactor=1

apparently labor internal polling is showing a considerably more dire result


my latest election prediction is that by 6:45pm on the saturday night things will start to looking extremely bad for labor ....... by around 7:15 the labor government will be gone

bnwt

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Re: The ELECTION Thread
« Reply #414 on: August 02, 2010, 03:24:09 PM »
Where has ‘fake’ Julia gone?

Julia Gillard said the Rudd Government lost its way. Today, she’s conceded that her campaign has lost her way.

http://blogs.theaustralian.news.com.au/samanthamaiden/index.php/theaustralian/comments/where_has_fake_julia_gone/

Rebel*1*

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Re: The ELECTION Thread
« Reply #415 on: August 02, 2010, 03:32:36 PM »
It takes really shallow people to appraise someone on this kind of equally shallow rubbish.  It's quite OK for widdle Tony boy to get himself an acting coach by comparison?  And then tell us all that we can only really believe his SCRIPTED replies?  By comparison you want to Bash Julia for doing nothing different to her counterpart?  Only difference is, she didn't need acting lessons to convince anyone she had integrity.  Tony's still practicing in front of his mirror no doubt.   

elantra

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Re: The ELECTION Thread
« Reply #416 on: August 02, 2010, 04:41:30 PM »
Okay this is just me.
I have always been a swinging voter, why? because I can see good & bad policies in both parties.
I can see good & bad Politicians in both parties, I refuse to object just because somebody else puts up a motion or idea, that is not of my group or party
We are all Australians & we should all work as one.

But gee I find it hard to believe people would want Tony Abbott as Prime Minister of Australia.
Remember he was only elected leader of his party by one vote. Felt sorry for Mr Turnbull.
Maybe a woman's touch is what we need, she should be given a chance because we know what to expect from Tony Abbott.
Don't know Australia deserves that.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oqHP-LtEN7w

mandurahmum

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Re: The ELECTION Thread
« Reply #417 on: August 02, 2010, 04:43:04 PM »
Soldiers are expected to say that - they are not allowed to say anything negative or even truthful.

Thats why that soldier leaked those 90,000 pages of 'confidential info'  because sometimes its the only way to get the truth out there.


I  support the strong sentiment 'against' this war, but I do feel that this was going a tad too far.  Nothing is in the public interest if it means that lives are going to be placed at risk.   The guy from Wiki leaks arrogantly agreed that he would have to consider any such deaths to be 'collateral damage' ?  What a poonce.  The least he could have done was shield the bloody names.    I think he needs a gun held up to his head by a Taliban die hard and let's see how he likes the prospect of being turned into a statistic by the same standards.

How many times has history demonstrated this scenario though?  America using informants within the population they have invaded or are attempting to manipulate, and then those informants being left high and dry when the shite hits the fan?  

Any wonder why Afghan people don't openly assist the so called US investment in their country?.  Being an ally of the yanks could get them killed. By comparison if they don't cowtow to the Taliban, that too can get them killed.   Can't win can they? They're everybody's collateral damage apparently.   I wonder if the US are going to get those people who were named (and their families), out of Afghanistan without the usual bullshit over substantiating refugee status???  lol.  

Either way, I don't think our role there should be to back up the US in a war, but to provide a peace keeping force while Afghan itself forms its own Govt, Defense and Police force and other necessary infrastructure.   They can then fight the Taliban without our help.  What we're forgetting is that they are no longer a country of poverty and therefore an 'easy target' to everyone wanting to 'lord' it up over them.  They are now independently wealthy and they need help to empower their own people to fight for peace and democracy according to their interpretation/culture/religion/history etc.



I agree the soldier went to far, but I dont blame wiki leaks - there are a lot of other sites that would have also published them.   I wonder why this soldier was even given access to these records.  Surely they have some sort of security so that a soldier can only access records that he needs to.  

But I do wonder what the USA is going to do now - lives have been put at risk because of their lax security - so they must now help those that have been affected.








bnwt

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Re: The ELECTION Thread
« Reply #418 on: August 02, 2010, 05:20:05 PM »

bnwt

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Re: The ELECTION Thread
« Reply #419 on: August 02, 2010, 05:40:26 PM »
elantra

you say when talking about prime minister Abbott "Remember he was only elected leader of his party by one vote"

ms gillard was elected with NO votes .......... but just one knife

Rebel*1*

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Re: The ELECTION Thread
« Reply #420 on: August 02, 2010, 05:48:21 PM »
Hi elantra, no it's not just you. LOL.  I tend to vote on the issues too, not the personalities.  If the LIbs could come up with an Intelligent candidate, I might take them seriously.  Hey it could have been worse, Hockey could have won the leadership ballot instead of Abbott.  LOL

And lest we forget the dirty pool of the last election?  Don't worry bnwt, I'm digging up some examples of nasty stuff from the  last election so you can see who was hurling the accusations and innuendo's around then.  Some things never change.   Hey and let's not forget "GrechGate".    The fact of the matter is that in the whole time Rudd was in Leadership the character attacks and dirty politics never stopped from the LIb Camp.  (again see Grechgate for updated example of obvious ankle tapping and dirty politics.)  Jeese, wasn't that Laurie Oaks again?  Can that guy stop 'being the news' anytime soon?

Just so you can see that not too much has changed when it comes to the Libs.  Same shite, different election. (see article below- 2007)

With Guess who breaking the story?  Laurie Oaks, and once again during an election?  This kind of mud raking and dirt slinging does nothing more than degrade an election and the political process.   Don't we deserve to be advised of the issues under decision for us to vote on?  Devoid of this rubbish?   The whole point is that no matter which side is doing it, it has no place in an election.  Yet our media are falling all over themselves to perpetuate it to the point of ridiculous.  Meanwhile serious election issues are being buried in the innuendo, superficial character assassination, and mud slinging?  What's that about?   Is that bigger news than the actual election issues?

The media are not reporting news, they're making and manipulating the news.   I can't believe the Media are now bagging Julia Gillard about being 'Real'?  It defies logic when one looks at the alternative?  Tony Real?  lmao.  

And yes, you have to wonder how anyone has convinced themselves that Abbott has actually turned into a Statesman with a few acting lessons?  LOL.

Parties to 'play clean' but dirt emerges
http://www.ozroundtable.com/index.php?action=post;topic=2695.400;num_replies=418

September 23, 2007 - 11:09AM
AdvertisementAdvertisement

Both major parties have pledged to keep the election campaign clean, as fresh claims emerged about political rivals spreading dirt about one another.

The accusations followed last week's fiery scenes in parliament, when opposition MPs alleged the government had dug up Labor leader Kevin Rudd's private medical records



elantra

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Re: The ELECTION Thread
« Reply #421 on: August 02, 2010, 06:02:15 PM »
elantra

you say when talking about prime minister Abbott "Remember he was only elected leader of his party by one vote"

ms gillard was elected with NO votes .......... but just one knife

I thought ms Gillard was elected leader of the Labor Party unopposed,
After Mr Rudd stood down.
Isn't that correct??

Rebel*1*

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Re: The ELECTION Thread
« Reply #422 on: August 02, 2010, 06:12:12 PM »
Correct.  Nobody else stood for leadership wasn't that also correct?  And if not Julia, then who else?  I think if it was going to happen, then we got the best candidate in Julia Gillard. 

A most articulate and intelligent woman in her own right.  I thought she performed BRILLIANTLY on the morning after the so called 'leaks' were exposed and fingers pointed with ensuing media frenzy over hearsay.

Meanwhile Abbott showed up at a press conference directly after, with nothing but negative sloganism, no intelligent reply to questions and backed up by two colleagues to step in when he 'did the George Bush'  Doh !!!


Roo

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Re: The ELECTION Thread
« Reply #423 on: August 02, 2010, 07:04:25 PM »
Correct.  Nobody else stood for leadership wasn't that also correct?  And if not Julia, then who else?  I think if it was going to happen, then we got the best candidate in Julia Gillard. 

A most articulate and intelligent woman in her own right.  I thought she performed BRILLIANTLY on the morning after the so called 'leaks' were exposed and fingers pointed with ensuing media frenzy over hearsay.

Meanwhile Abbott showed up at a press conference directly after, with nothing but negative sloganism, no intelligent reply to questions and backed up by two colleagues to step in when he 'did the George Bush'  Doh !!!



That is one thing I'm worried about....is it nothing but a performance?

She seems all cool, calm and collected....but is it just a facade?

Tony may have a chance if he ditches the Speedos and starts getting some pics of him in a pair of boardies..lol

Only kidding..lol

Rebel*1*

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Re: The ELECTION Thread
« Reply #424 on: August 02, 2010, 08:28:20 PM »
Her replies in the press conference that morning were NOT scripted, they were her own and she was superbly articulate in the face of a media generated frenzy over hearsay alone.    IN fact, she was being  'The Real Julia' apparently, and what a great performance.  Tony should be more worried about the Real 'unscripted' Julia.  She was impressive. 

Meanwhile, The scripted Julia is no different from the Scripted Howard, the Scripted Abbott, the Scripted Rudd.  It's part of politics.  So you should be asking the same question about all of them when they've given election speeches.   Are they for real?  Is Tony Abbott for real? 

In addition to this for the irony of all ironies, did you miss the 7.30 report where Abbott told the Nation, (in justification of his contradictions) that they can only really rely on his 'scripted' speeches?  Not things said in unscripted replies to media or the public? 

So when HE'S being real and unscripted, he can't be believed or held to it, by his own admission, but unless Julia is real and unscripted she can't be believed if she gives a scripted response?  LOL  How does that follow? bit hard for anyone to get their head around really.  LOL. 

MrsFluffyDodgers

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Re: The ELECTION Thread
« Reply #425 on: August 02, 2010, 10:20:20 PM »
Heeeeellllllllo Everyone.  (epecially Golden)

I am very upset with that little Kevin Rudd for plunging my beautiful pond into debt.  We were ahead.  Had money in the bank.. and now..  big debt.  Labour do it every time.  My grandmother always told me you couldn't rely on someone who couldn't manage their money.  (or MY money if you think about.) 

Many dead and overseas citizens were paid that $900.  Ridiculous!!!  (and I know both cases personally)   

That little Julia is a naughty girl.   Sticking a knife in the poor little Kevins back like that.  Even naughty boys don't deserve to be attacked by their own.  No loyalty. 

I rather like Tony's budgy smugglers, but still don't trust any of them at the end of the day.  It  comes down to which party is going to ruin the country less.  I think I'll go with the experienced players with a history of managing the country asutely and into excess and not the amateurs (Labour) who take moments to throw money away.   
Any cream cakes or chocolate?

elantra

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Re: The ELECTION Thread
« Reply #426 on: August 02, 2010, 11:18:16 PM »
Heeeeellllllllo Everyone.  (epecially Golden)

I am very upset with that little Kevin Rudd for plunging my beautiful pond into debt.  We were ahead.  Had money in the bank.. and now..  big debt.  Labour do it every time.  My grandmother always told me you couldn't rely on someone who couldn't manage their money.  (or MY money if you think about.) 

Many dead and overseas citizens were paid that $900.  Ridiculous!!!  (and I know both cases personally)   

That little Julia is a naughty girl.   Sticking a knife in the poor little Kevins back like that.  Even naughty boys don't deserve to be attacked by their own.  No loyalty. 

I rather like Tony's budgy smugglers, but still don't trust any of them at the end of the day.  It  comes down to which party is going to ruin the country less.  I think I'll go with the experienced players with a history of managing the country asutely and into excess and not the amateurs (Labour) who take moments to throw money away.   

You are forgetting that this Government kept Australia out of a recession. Please remember that. The rest of the world would love to be in our position.

The reason the previous Government had so much money was from the GST & the fact that they sold of so much of our gold reserves at a very low price.
we might be in debt but we are not in a recession.
Which we would be if we had done nothing.
Look at how much the USA spent trying to avoid a recession.
Look at how much the U.K spent trying to avoid a recession.
Look at Greece.
This bunch of amateurs saved & created a lot of jobs for all of us Australians.
No other Government has had to deal with a crises like the "GFC" since the 1930's
The thing is, it is not over yet.
Please remember that when you come to vote.
I'm glad you like Tony's budgy (sic) smugglers, you can see the outline of his polices.

mandurahmum

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Re: The ELECTION Thread
« Reply #427 on: August 02, 2010, 11:19:24 PM »
I had the poll people phone me tonight.  One of the questions was about religion and whether or not the fact that Tony was a Catholic and Julia an atheist make a difference.  The question and options were skewed - it kinda made out that being an atheist was a bad thing.

Why is religion being brought into an election?

And is the 'fact' that Julia is an atheist well known?  I did not know it and it kinda sounded like a bit of a smear to me.






MrsFluffyDodgers

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Re: The ELECTION Thread
« Reply #428 on: August 02, 2010, 11:26:58 PM »


You are forgetting that this Government kept Australia out of a recession. Please remember that. The rest of the world would love to be in our position.  The reason the previous Government had so much money was from the GST & the fact that they sold of so much of our gold reserves at a very low price.
we might be in debt but we are not in a recession.
Which we would be if we had done nothing.
Look at how much the USA spent trying to avoid a recession.
Look at how much the U.K spent trying to avoid a recession.
Look at Greece.
This bunch of amateurs saved & created a lot of jobs for all of us Australians.
No other Government has had to deal with a crises like the "GFC" since the 1930's
The thing is, it is not over yet.
Please remember that when you come to vote.
I'm glad you like Tony's budgy (sic) smugglers, you can see the outline of his polices.


Heellllooo Elantra.  Nice to meet you.

I don't think that there is any evidence that Labour kept us out of a recession.  I think there is evidence that China kept buying our resources and that kept us out of the recession.

I'm glad your glad I like Tony's budgies...   Yes you can see the outline of real firm large policies.  

Any cream cakes or chocolate?

mandurahmum

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Re: The ELECTION Thread
« Reply #429 on: August 02, 2010, 11:27:53 PM »
Heeeeellllllllo Everyone.  (epecially Golden)

I am very upset with that little Kevin Rudd for plunging my beautiful pond into debt.  We were ahead.  Had money in the bank.. and now..  big debt.  Labour do it every time.  My grandmother always told me you couldn't rely on someone who couldn't manage their money.  (or MY money if you think about.)  

Many dead and overseas citizens were paid that $900.  Ridiculous!!!  (and I know both cases personally)  

That little Julia is a naughty girl.   Sticking a knife in the poor little Kevins back like that.  Even naughty boys don't deserve to be attacked by their own.  No loyalty.  

I rather like Tony's budgy smugglers, but still don't trust any of them at the end of the day.  It  comes down to which party is going to ruin the country less.  I think I'll go with the experienced players with a history of managing the country asutely and into excess and not the amateurs (Labour) who take moments to throw money away.  

You are forgetting that this Government kept Australia out of a recession. Please remember that. The rest of the world would love to be in our position.

The reason the previous Government had so much money was from the GST & the fact that they sold of so much of our gold reserves at a very low price.
we might be in debt but we are not in a recession.
Which we would be if we had done nothing.
Look at how much the USA spent trying to avoid a recession.
Look at how much the U.K spent trying to avoid a recession.
Look at Greece.
This bunch of amateurs saved & created a lot of jobs for all of us Australians.
No other Government has had to deal with a crises like the "GFC" since the 1930's
The thing is, it is not over yet.
Please remember that when you come to vote.
I'm glad you like Tony's budgy (sic) smugglers, you can see the outline of his polices.


exactly.  The previous government had money because they were not spending it on things that needed it.  

Mrs Fluffee - I hate to disagree with you - but there is ample evidence that Mr Rudds government kept us out of recession.  His stimulus package did work.  We did not loose the jobs that were predicted - none of our major banks went under (thank you Mr Keating for making our banking regulations so strong).  The building industry boomed - and is still booming over here. 

I am sorry but I think it might be the one thing that Rudd will be remembered for - and rightly so - He has gotten worldwide praise for his efforts and we are the envy of most of the world right now


MrsFluffyDodgers

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Re: The ELECTION Thread
« Reply #430 on: August 02, 2010, 11:54:25 PM »
Heellloo Mum.  ;D Yes I would agree with you about Keating.  Jolly good treasurer that.  

I'm not Labour or Liberal at core.  I'm a swinger.

But I am cross about being put into debt and it does seem to be a pattern (Keating excepted) with Labour.

As for jobs..  well my entire family (bar one out of 4) lost their entire livelihoods for a long time, many months.  Had never happened before.  But this is just my opinion and personal experience.

Many many in our profession were and are out of work for a long time.  The hiring people told me stories of receiving hundreds and hundreds of applications whereas in the past they would only receive 40 or 50.  Some people I know have still not found suitable or alternatively any jobs.   This is absolutely unheard of prior to this.    I personally know many many clever professional people who still can't find work.  I was eventually one of the lucky ones.  That makes two out of four in my family now.

Unemployment figures are hidden amongst many people.

For the first 5 months, I did not appear in jobless figures because my partner was working.  Then they lost their job and we had to wait 3 or 4 months to be able to register for unemployment and received help from the government because we had a little hard earned money in the bank.  We blew 20 grand in those three or four months whilst we were qualifying.  During that time we did not appear in the jobless figures either.

I have a friend whose partner is a lawyer.  They had a baby late last year.  The wife did not lose her job, but her husband did and still can't get work.  He does not appear in the unemployment figures.  The wife wanted to spend time with the baby, but couldn't as they needed an income.

I know of many people who are in this same position and don't appear as unemployed.  Unemployment is a lot rifer than the government would lead us to believe.   ...  I know.



Any cream cakes or chocolate?

elantra

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Re: The ELECTION Thread
« Reply #431 on: August 03, 2010, 12:54:43 AM »
Heeeeellllllllo Everyone.  (epecially Golden)

I am very upset with that little Kevin Rudd for plunging my beautiful pond into debt.  We were ahead.  Had money in the bank.. and now..  big debt.  Labour do it every time.  My grandmother always told me you couldn't rely on someone who couldn't manage their money.  (or MY money if you think about.)  

Many dead and overseas citizens were paid that $900.  Ridiculous!!!  (and I know both cases personally)  

That little Julia is a naughty girl.   Sticking a knife in the poor little Kevins back like that.  Even naughty boys don't deserve to be attacked by their own.  No loyalty.  

I rather like Tony's budgy smugglers, but still don't trust any of them at the end of the day.  It  comes down to which party is going to ruin the country less.  I think I'll go with the experienced players with a history of managing the country asutely and into excess and not the amateurs (Labour) who take moments to throw money away.  

You are forgetting that this Government kept Australia out of a recession. Please remember that. The rest of the world would love to be in our position.

The reason the previous Government had so much money was from the GST & the fact that they sold of so much of our gold reserves at a very low price.
we might be in debt but we are not in a recession.
Which we would be if we had done nothing.
Look at how much the USA spent trying to avoid a recession.
Look at how much the U.K spent trying to avoid a recession.
Look at Greece.
This bunch of amateurs saved & created a lot of jobs for all of us Australians.
No other Government has had to deal with a crises like the "GFC" since the 1930's
The thing is, it is not over yet.
Please remember that when you come to vote.
I'm glad you like Tony's budgy (sic) smugglers, you can see the outline of his polices.


exactly.  The previous government had money because they were not spending it on things that needed it.  

Mrs Fluffee - I hate to disagree with you - but there is ample evidence that Mr Rudds government kept us out of recession.  His stimulus package did work.  We did not loose the jobs that were predicted - none of our major banks went under (thank you Mr Keating for making our banking regulations so strong).  The building industry boomed - and is still booming over here. 

I am sorry but I think it might be the one thing that Rudd will be remembered for - and rightly so - He has gotten worldwide praise for his efforts and we are the envy of most of the world right now


Not forgetting Bank protection which guaranteed our money would be safe in the Bank.

elantra

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Re: The ELECTION Thread
« Reply #432 on: August 03, 2010, 01:01:34 AM »
It's easy to see how people are misinformed.
I heard on TV this afternoon.

"Most people get their news from channel nine."

That's rather frightening is it not?

mandurahmum

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Re: The ELECTION Thread
« Reply #433 on: August 03, 2010, 01:26:26 AM »
Heellloo Mum.  ;D Yes I would agree with you about Keating.  Jolly good treasurer that.  

I'm not Labour or Liberal at core.  I'm a swinger.

But I am cross about being put into debt and it does seem to be a pattern (Keating excepted) with Labour.

As for jobs..  well my entire family (bar one out of 4) lost their entire livelihoods for a long time, many months.  Had never happened before.  But this is just my opinion and personal experience.

Many many in our profession were and are out of work for a long time.  The hiring people told me stories of receiving hundreds and hundreds of applications whereas in the past they would only receive 40 or 50.  Some people I know have still not found suitable or alternatively any jobs.   This is absolutely unheard of prior to this.    I personally know many many clever professional people who still can't find work.  I was eventually one of the lucky ones.  That makes two out of four in my family now.

Unemployment figures are hidden amongst many people.

For the first 5 months, I did not appear in jobless figures because my partner was working.  Then they lost their job and we had to wait 3 or 4 months to be able to register for unemployment and received help from the government because we had a little hard earned money in the bank.  We blew 20 grand in those three or four months whilst we were qualifying.  During that time we did not appear in the jobless figures either.

I have a friend whose partner is a lawyer.  They had a baby late last year.  The wife did not lose her job, but her husband did and still can't get work.  He does not appear in the unemployment figures.  The wife wanted to spend time with the baby, but couldn't as they needed an income.

I know of many people who are in this same position and don't appear as unemployed.  Unemployment is a lot rifer than the government would lead us to believe.   ...  I know.





See I dont know anyone that lost their jobs because of the gfc, but I do know plenty (well sons friends) that all got jobs or went to uni/tafe.  I dont know anyone that lost their house, but I do know plenty that lost a lot of money.

In fact in this state unemployment is hardly an issue compared to what it used to be, and that is mainly to do with mining

bnwt

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Re: The ELECTION Thread
« Reply #434 on: August 03, 2010, 08:42:16 AM »
Gillard's challenge 'a sign of desperation'


http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2010/08/03/2971539.htm

Rebel*1*

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Re: The ELECTION Thread
« Reply #435 on: August 03, 2010, 10:50:02 AM »
I'm glad you like Tony's budgy (sic) smugglers, you can see the outline of his polices.

LMAO, yes and he has it firmly in hand most of the time as he practices his lines in front of the mirror.  "Magic Mirror tell me today, have all my toe cutters had fun at play"  

Elantra, and MM, you are so right, and the glaringly obvious disparity between the have's and have not's in Johnny's last year of Govt, demonstrates exactly who paid for the surplus.  Us !!  Average Aussies went without to fund that position, while the Mining companies were given the concession of all concessions.  Our wealth at $1.00 in $7.00.  The previous Labour Govt charged $1.00 in $3.00.  It's self evident who was favoured in that little back room deal yes?  Why are the mining companies paying so little since the Howard Govt eh?  How do they reconcile that with the NATIONAL interests?  Under Abbott, they'll probably be paying .50 cents in $7.00.  I'd like this issue debated given that it concerns short sheeting Australia's return on their own wealth.

And lest we forget, During the last two years of the Howard Govt. the richest 200 Australians announced RECORD profits of 22% & 26% respectively on the back of the commodities boom.  I posted a point form glimpse of how Average Aussies were fairing in the same Year Little Johnny was Telling us 'We'd never been better off".  Where I live, the unemployment was out of control - 23 jobs advertised per week with 12,000 job seekers.  We had one of the highest foreclosure figures in the country, the lowest wage rates, and no access to any services because Johnny had literally starved them dry from the Fed level down.  Meanwhile Johnny and Stone were asserting that we had a 'Once in a Lifetime' labour market and anyone not employed was simply 'work avoidant'.  I wrote to Howard at the time with statistics, pointing out that with 23 jobs per week and 12,000 job seekers, "Work was avoiding us".  (btw, I wasn't unemployed thankfully, but many many of my fellow residents were)  

His Govt. robbed 1billion dollars from the public health budget and gave it to the Private Health market (this in a time when the wealthy, or otherwise better off, didn't really need such biased concessions).  

In fact, I'll go back and do an analysis as I did previously, on exactly how Johnny robbed Peter (The Aussie Punters), to Pay Paul (The Aussie Rich).  It should then be self evident how Johnny was able to put us into surplus.  Nero fiddles, Rome Burns.  

Abbott's now proposing to rob another billion out of the National Public Health Budget?  What's changed?  They can't tax mining.  Oh heavens no, let's rob the public purse instead and provide sub standard 2nd world health & hospital standards instead ?  

But as I said, I'll go and get the actual factual evidence so you can figure it out for yourself.  Any Govt that has to Rob people of basic services while advantaging the rich in every direction is not acting in the National Interest.  I challenge both parties to bring the issue of mining remuneration to the next debate.  Let's see which of the two kings are wearing no clothes.

elantra

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Re: The ELECTION Thread
« Reply #436 on: August 03, 2010, 11:36:28 AM »
I'm glad you like Tony's budgy (sic) smugglers, you can see the outline of his polices.

LMAO, yes and he has it firmly in hand most of the time as he practices his lines in front of the mirror.  "Magic Mirror tell me today, have all my toe cutters had fun at play"  

Elantra, and MM, you are so right, and the glaringly obvious disparity between the have's and have not's in Johnny's last year of Govt, demonstrates exactly who paid for the surplus.  Us !!  Average Aussies went without to fund that position, while the Mining companies were given the concession of all concessions.  Our wealth at $1.00 in $7.00.  The previous Labour Govt charged $1.00 in $3.00.  It's self evident who was favoured in that little back room deal yes?  Why are the mining companies paying so little since the Howard Govt eh?  How do they reconcile that with the NATIONAL interests?  Under Abbott, they'll probably be paying .50 cents in $7.00.  I'd like this issue debated given that it concerns short sheeting Australia's return on their own wealth.

And lest we forget, During the last two years of the Howard Govt. the richest 200 Australians announced RECORD profits of 22% & 26% respectively on the back of the commodities boom.  I posted a point form glimpse of how Average Aussies were fairing in the same Year Little Johnny was Telling us 'We'd never been better off".  Where I live, the unemployment was out of control - 23 jobs advertised per week with 12,000 job seekers.  We had one of the highest foreclosure figures in the country, the lowest wage rates, and no access to any services because Johnny had literally starved them dry from the Fed level down.  Meanwhile Johnny and Stone were asserting that we had a 'Once in a Lifetime' labour market and anyone not employed was simply 'work avoidant'.  I wrote to Howard at the time with statistics, pointing out that with 23 jobs per week and 12,000 job seekers, "Work was avoiding us".  (btw, I wasn't unemployed thankfully, but many many of my fellow residents were)  

His Govt. robbed 1billion dollars from the public health budget and gave it to the Private Health market (this in a time when the wealthy, or otherwise better off, didn't really need such biased concessions).  

In fact, I'll go back and do an analysis as I did previously, on exactly how Johnny robbed Peter (The Aussie Punters), to Pay Paul (The Aussie Rich).  It should then be self evident how Johnny was able to put us into surplus.  Nero fiddles, Rome Burns.  

Abbott's now proposing to rob another billion out of the National Public Health Budget?  What's changed?  They can't tax mining.  Oh heavens no, let's rob the public purse instead and provide sub standard 2nd world health & hospital standards instead ?  

But as I said, I'll go and get the actual factual evidence so you can figure it out for yourself.  Any Govt that has to Rob people of basic services while advantaging the rich in every direction is not acting in the National Interest.  I challenge both parties to bring the issue of mining remuneration to the next debate.  Let's see which of the two kings are wearing no clothes.

Here here!!

bnwt

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Re: The ELECTION Thread
« Reply #437 on: August 03, 2010, 11:57:20 AM »
No Second Debate

as soon to be PM Tony Abbott says

"You can't change the rules just because you're in trouble. Labor had the chance ... and frankly things have moved on.

I can't be expected to know whether it's the real Julia or someone else talking and when she said no (to 3 debates), I thought she meant no".

shyer

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Re: The ELECTION Thread
« Reply #438 on: August 03, 2010, 12:05:59 PM »
No Julia is a lifetime leftie from the commo student unions. No need to tell the truth commies NEVER tell the truth.

bnwt

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Re: The ELECTION Thread
« Reply #439 on: August 03, 2010, 01:31:31 PM »
Tanner tight-lipped on leak allegations

He says he does not think the leaks have been damaging to the Labor Party

http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2010/08/03/2971850.htm?section=justin

bnwt

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Re: The ELECTION Thread
« Reply #440 on: August 03, 2010, 02:28:30 PM »
Mr Abbott says Ms Gillard has missed her chance for further debates.

"You can't change the rules just because you're in trouble," he said.

"She said no repeatedly and when she said no I thought she meant no."

"Are you suggesting to me that when it comes to Julia, no doesn't mean no?"


elantra

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Re: The ELECTION Thread
« Reply #441 on: August 03, 2010, 03:16:15 PM »

bnwt

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Re: The ELECTION Thread
« Reply #442 on: August 03, 2010, 03:49:39 PM »

Rebel*1*

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Re: The ELECTION Thread
« Reply #443 on: August 03, 2010, 04:05:03 PM »
You know shyer, it offends my intelligence, and no doubt others who believe in a 'fair go' for all Aussies rather than just themselves, to be called commies.  What it demonstrates is your own ignorance mate.  Define what it is you think a commie is, and how Gillard resembles either the philosophy on one hand, vs the policies adopted by and imposed by Communist states on the other in actual practice?  Do you even appreciate the difference?  (See China example on this Morning's news to see the difference in real time) I object to China's communist regime and its human rights violations against its own people.  We will never see that kind of injustice here.  

Australia is an Egalitarian society by comparison.  Is that too commie for you? If so too bad, we just are.   Do you even know what it means?  Let me take the pressure off.  (I warn you, it does resemble certain aspects of socialist and communist theory,  but that's where the resemblance ends)

*the doctrine of the equality of mankind and the desirability of political and economic and social equality
*The political doctrine that holds that all people in a society should have equal rights from birth
* egalitarian - a person who believes in the equality of all people
* egalitarian - classless: favoring social equality; "a classless society"

BTW, I believe in the above philosophy, and that's exactly what I'm arguing.  A fair go for all Aussies, not just the Rich that the Libs ALWAYS favour at our expense.  It is not communist to subscribe to an egalitarian fair go for all.  If the Rich are increasing their net wealth on the back of the elitist mining lobby, then we should get our FAIR share for our un-renewable resources.  It's Not commie, not leftist.  It's Egalitarian.  A fair go.  Knock that.

There are many more definitions but they all turn out the same way.  Long way from communism as a theory or a practice under a communist regime.    Are you implying that Julia Gillard wants to impose a Communist state?  

So, if we are in fact an Egalitarian society, with a national pride in the good old Aussie 'Fair Go', then are we in fact all commies by your definition for subscribing to those philosophies?  Or is it Just Julia?

Right now, China (a communist regime) is so far away from 'egalitarianism' it's not funny, and yet you imagine they are one in the same thing?  You need to do some studies in sociology and history.  That's obvious


Rebel*1*

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Re: The ELECTION Thread
« Reply #444 on: August 03, 2010, 04:32:30 PM »
LOL.  Speaking sociology to those who know the difference, I have to laugh thinking back to Obama's promise to 'Redistribute Wealth' fairly.  lmao.  I said to my other half at the time, my god, someone is going to put out a contract on this guy for even mentioning such 'offensive words' in the presence of the rich.  Redistribute wealth ?  My gord, he must be a Commie right?  lol.  We can't have a world where there isn't a privileged elite stockpiling the Worlds wealth.  

BTW.  Michael Moore has put out a new documentary.  Love that guy.  He approaches someone high up in the Stock Exchange or similar and asks 'Where is all the money'?  I haven't seen it yet, but you have to love that guy for asking the bloody obvious questions.

Where DID all the billions of dollars go in the (latest of many historically) US LED stock market melt downs?  Was it even real?  If it was, then WHO HAS GOT ALL THE MONEY?????  The world was just held at ransom over BILLIONS of dollars that went somewhere.  Where? Whose got it and why do an elite few get to hold the world at ransom and plunge us into a World recession?  Show me the Money !!!!

Rebel*1*

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Re: The ELECTION Thread
« Reply #445 on: August 03, 2010, 05:50:30 PM »
No Second Debate

as soon to be PM Tony Abbott says

"You can't change the rules just because you're in trouble. Labor had the chance ... and frankly things have moved on.

I can't be expected to know whether it's the real Julia or someone else talking and when she said no (to 3 debates), I thought she meant no".


Typical. What he doesn't think that the public want this debate?  Maybe we have to make A MUCH BIGGER NOISE THEN !!! And this time, let's include the Greens OK?  They are a legitimate party, I don't subscribe one way or another, but they have legitimate issues that I do subscribe to and wish to keep on the table.  Come on Julia, Come on Tony, we want a debate and you should include Bob Brown this time.  Let's get the cards on the table.  (btw I've sent a link to this thread to the greens and am sending the same link to the Libs and ALP).  I can't speak on behalf of all Australians, but in the name of Egalitarian Govt, I ask all of you (them) to debate fair remuneration for our resources, to take the pressure off tax payers in much overdue infrastructure investment.  Unreasonable?  Australia is independently wealthy. We own the resources Howard sold for a song, and now Abbott wants to perpetuate. I ask, you, how is that an economically sound position to take?  We own the resources, Is $3.00 in $7.00 too much to ask for?

bnwt

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Re: The ELECTION Thread
« Reply #446 on: August 03, 2010, 06:49:28 PM »
Rebel

with reference to you statement

(btw I've sent a link to this thread to the greens and am sending the same link to the Libs and ALP)

while it is highly unlikely any political party would bother reading or even take the slightest bit on notice of anything said in this discussion I believe you have no right to have sent these links to anyone and doing this have breached the accepted protocol of a forum like this


*smee*

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Re: The ELECTION Thread
« Reply #447 on: August 03, 2010, 06:53:32 PM »
Rebel , if you are going to keep using the figures $1 in $3 and $1 in $7 etc you have to look at all the figures you cant just pluck the ones that suit your arguement

if you read this article it gives a different angle on how much the mining companies are actually paying in taxes http://www.theaustralian.com.au/business/opinion/back-up-numbers-needed-to-dispel-doubts/story-e6frg9p6-1225874222885

in particular I draw everyones attention to these statements from the above link
The issue is complex. But back-of-the-envelope calculations using this data suggest that mining company royalties and corporate profit taxes as a share of mining company pre-tax profits have actually increased over the past decade - from $1 in $4 of profit to $1 in $3 of profit.

Separate calculations by The Australian suggest the latest share of royalties in pre-tax mining company profits are about the level of a decade ago at $1 in $9 of mining company profits.


you must also understand that apart from these taxes they also have built a lot of infrastructure , one example being the railway line that runs throughout the Pilbara region of Western Australia .... they paid for all that , ok its on government land but the rail line will stay there for ever , they also pay money to the local businesses in mining towns such as Newman each year , the Hospital there is owned and run by bhp ... it will remain if they pull out .... they own and run the only power station there ... that will remain if they pull out , sure probably half the population at present work for BHP but the other half of the population of that town also use the facilities...

I am not saying that there is not some validity in the mines paying more , how much more I am not sure .... but I do know the figure quoted of $1 in $7 compared to $1 in $3 is not the be all and end all of their contribution , and apart from their direct employment having the mines operational actually creates many , many other jobs ................
if companies of the ilk of BHP and Rio Tinto etc decided to cease operations our Country would be in a lot more strife that having to worry about a mining super tax , the flow on effect that it would have on unemployment and therefore social security could cripple us .........

all I am saying is that the situation needs to be looked at more in depth that just bandying these same figures around constantly

Rebel*1*

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Re: The ELECTION Thread
« Reply #448 on: August 03, 2010, 06:59:09 PM »
bnwt, at least I care to do more than just posting Political propaganda.  I suggest that anyone who cares, email the Greens, ALP, Media, Libs (the last two seemingly one in the same thing), and state your views and what you want to see debated.   Apparently bnwt, you seem to believe whatever you're told.  That's your problem I suggest.   You need to consider the NATIONAL interest.  Tony wants to give mining a free for all, when it will fund all necessary NATIONAL infrastructure at MUCH more than $1,00 in $7.00.  Can you possibly argue that Aussies (irrespective of political leanings) DON'T deserve at least that much for their own resources in the face of infrastructure collapse nationally?  The ALP who presented that obvious imbalance, (in insisting on  more than $1.00 in $7.00), do indeed have the NATIONAL interests at heart.  Someone has to fund it. 

Who do you think you are kidding?  At least I care enough to do something, irrespective of how intangible or worthless you want to portray the effort.  I'm only one.  I hope many are making these concerns known in terms of any issues that should be debated in the NATIONAL interest.  I don't want you or I to have to fund infrastructure upgrade when we have Natural wealth that should be doing that for us.  Is that so hard to understand?

Rebel*1*

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Re: The ELECTION Thread
« Reply #449 on: August 03, 2010, 07:08:20 PM »
Rebel , if you are going to keep using the figures $1 in $3 and $1 in $7 etc you have to look at all the figures you cant just pluck the ones that suit your arguement

Smee, these figures were publicly released and apparently the public is supposed to believe everything printed in the media according to the obvious Liberal right wing philosophy on this thread from the outset.   If there IS more to it, then I suggest to you that it should be debated by all three parties with any influence, Right Left and Green.  Fair enough?  It's not just my argument, the greens just opened their campaign stating as much.    

The ALP can qualify how they came up with those MEDIA released figures and the LIbs can address why they are against Taxing the mining companies for a fair share.  Also fair enough?  Remember?  Media is gospel according to some.  I say the major three parties need to debate out this issue including fair remuneration and the veritable free for all in terms of access at such a small return to the Australian people.  All I see is the Mining Industry running this country.  

You know what?  The POWERFUL mining lobby, need to come out of the closet, cut out the LIBERAL PARTY middle man and register their own party.   Something like the "Exploit Australia's Mineral wealth for a Sixpence" Party.  I'm sure they'd be popular.  Don't you?