Author Topic: The ELECTION Thread  (Read 382442 times)

Rebel*1*

  • Guest
Re: The ELECTION Thread
« Reply #350 on: July 30, 2010, 10:27:08 PM »
Oh ok, so you think the mining companies should be allowed to continue to extort the Australian people and our infrastructure over the price they pay for our resources, while our infrastructure crumbles?  'What a hero you are in the name of the GREATER good?  I for one will vote for someone who wants to exploit the mining companies as they exploit us so this country can finally grow on the back of ITS OWN wealth.

Rebel*1*

  • Guest
Re: The ELECTION Thread
« Reply #351 on: July 30, 2010, 10:56:48 PM »
What's up Wyzeguy?  can't figure out an argument yet as to why average Aussies should foot the bill for MUCH NEEDED infrasctucture via fair returns on our collective wealth ?  Can you possibly find an argument to convince anyone (labour lib or otherwise), that we should assume a forward position to be screwed over otherwise?  In any argument on a FAIR return for our resources for instance?  Bite me mate, I want my share devoted to infrastructure investment, so sue me.  Oh forgot, that makes me a left wing commie for seeing the forest for the trees?  Then so be it buddy.  Argue FAIR return to the Aussie people I dare's ya.

wyzeguy60

  • Guest
Re: The ELECTION Thread
« Reply #352 on: July 30, 2010, 11:59:23 PM »
What's up Wyzeguy?  can't figure out an argument yet as to why average Aussies should foot the bill for MUCH NEEDED infrasctucture via fair returns on our collective wealth ?  Can you possibly find an argument to convince anyone (labour lib or otherwise), that we should assume a forward position to be screwed over otherwise?  In any argument on a FAIR return for our resources for instance?  Bite me mate, I want my share devoted to infrastructure investment, so sue me.  Oh forgot, that makes me a left wing commie for seeing the forest for the trees?  Then so be it buddy.  Argue FAIR return to the Aussie people I dare's ya

what a crock of shite.
Who underpins our economy. I gave you a copy of my letter to my local member the other day ( labor candidate ) and it clearly explains what happens if you curtail the mining sector by over taxing it. You jump down everybody's throat if they disagree and mock them - well i don't appreciate that one bit. You cannot be argued with and are one of the people I dread meeting when talking politics. YOUR VIEW AND FLOCK EVERYBODY ELSE ATTITUDE.
Mining underpins the economy and has done for decades.
You have also quoted incorrect figures on taxation and I would appreciate if you could correct these. International mining corporations pay 1 in 7 or 13 % to be exact. Australian operated mining companies pay 17 %. They ( all mining companies ) also pay 80 cents in the tonne in royalties to state governments as well as payroll tax. In WA alone last year this generated 2.6 Billion dollars to the state of WA.
They are the people who invest billions of dollars to extract the raw product - why should the government reap anymore. If the government needs a super tax on mining to save it's neck from it's utterly obscene spending spree over the last few years - 100 billion in debt and growing by 100 million a day - utterly obscene.

Now if you over tax mining they will go elswhere, down size or restrict their activities and 10's of thousands of jobs will go with it. Blind freddie can even see that.

And where did I call you a left wing commie cupcakes - certainly starting to sound like one. I am a capitalist and proud of it.

Oh and BTW - Krudd spent the infrastructure fund in his first 10 months of Government - gave it away - all 21 billion of it. Gawd I cannot understand how quickly people forget what a great place this was under Johnnie - life was never better.

 ;D

oh here is a copy of my letter if you failed to read it last time

" What I cannot understand is peoples desire to penalise our large mining companies. They pay royalties to their respective state governments, they pay company and payroll tax. They provide an enormous contribution to communities in terms of labour hire, amenities and community funds. They provide the equipment, buildings and expertise. They provide substantial export dollars which helps to balance imports. They provide infrastructure which in turn helps remote communities.
Lets just add another massive tax to this and the effect will be astronomical. Companies will invest far less and will down size or at worst cease to exist. Current and future exploration and investment may also cease. Jobs will be lost and exports will diminish. State revenue will fall and so will the states spending power. Unemployment will be a huge issue in effected areas and so will the drain on welfare. Money markets will tumble and so will your hard earned super. Commonwealth revenue will also fall from these sectors adding to an already obscene debt. In effect the resource tax will wipe out any benefit it creates in a very short time. The burden will then fall on you – the public – and other companies as new tax measures are bought in to cope with the shortfall. And all states and territories will suffer – not just the few who rely heavily on resources. If there is less revenue overall and a greater debt commonwealth funding to states will be reduced. This effects Hospitals, schools and other services as these cut backs are made. "

mandurahmum

  • Knight of the RT
  • *****
  • Posts: 2560
Re: The ELECTION Thread
« Reply #353 on: July 31, 2010, 12:16:19 AM »
I still say you cant trust mining companies to do the right thing because they dont - they put money ahead of safety

http://www.perthnow.com.au/news/western-australia/cyclone-death-probe-begins/story-e6frg13u-1111113144697

I wonder how the families of the dead workers feel about fortescue mining now.  Lets not also forget that these families have not been offered compensation.  But it was only 3 years ago.  

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/business/mining-energy/fortescue-miner-goes-to-trial-over-cyclone-death/story-e6frg9df-1225859084618

I also wonder if he employed the 50,000 aboriginals that he promised to Rudd in 2008 - No of course he did not.


And he has the audacity to complain about the mining tax - it might hurt his business - well how about the 2 people who died - because he failed to evacuate them - and failed to properly secure the accomodation blocks.

Yeah I feel so bad for twiggy



*FluffyDuckee*

  • Knights of the RT
  • Knight of the RT
  • *****
  • Posts: 6452
  • Waves to everyone
Re: The ELECTION Thread
« Reply #354 on: July 31, 2010, 12:41:02 AM »
Hi there MM.

Yes the mining companies can't be trusted to look after their workers and I think Wyzie does have a point re the upholding of our economy.

The mining companies do underpin our economy.  I'm no economist (although I did do economics as part of my MBA), but I suspect the only reason Australia did OK in the financial crisis was because of our mined wealth.

Yes without a doubt,  mines do sometimes put their workers health in danger...  but so do many and most other companies.  That is why we have OH & S laws.  

In spite of those laws OH & S issues are still rife all around Australia every day caused by all kinds of businesses.  In my job, because I am a consultant and not considered long term at the place I have been put, (even though I have been engaged for a year lol), I don't have a proper desk.  I have power cords running under my feet and I have the best desk in the crowded project room I am in.  Most people are doubled up and have even more cords under their feet.

Someone close to me recently worked for a company for a few weeks and the floors and kitchen and toilet were filthy.  Workers were put in physical danger every single day.  They were forced to load heavy weights without cranes, no protective equipment was provided in any way, things were left all over the floor etc etc.  On one day alone, they nearly tripped over a beam left in the middle of the floor.  They were forced to stand for 12 hours a day and only paid for much less.  No chair.  (The owner had a chair)  The lunch break was joke and they would have one bite and then be expected run and answer the phone every time it rang.  Sandwiches were left festering for days and weeks on the tea room table, covered with flies.  He witnessed two workers nearly being crushed by a huge generator.

The manager didn't care and probably didn't realise that he is personally liable and can be personally sued and is in danger of losing his house, incurring a huge fine and going to jail.  And this is not a civil reckoning.  The government will take him to task.  Yes this is in Australia.  Melbourne.  A couple of months ago.

But yes, many companies try to get away with as much as they can.  And so do people.  It is human nature.  Bottom line is the almighty dollar as you have correctly pointed out.  Whilst it is unacceptable for mining companies to endanger their employees many employees know the dangers when they apply and get paid extra because of it.
:duckling:

*smee*

  • Action Group
  • Knight of the RT
  • *****
  • Posts: 46871
Re: The ELECTION Thread
« Reply #355 on: July 31, 2010, 12:50:50 AM »
I also wonder if he employed the 50,000 aboriginals that he promised to Rudd in 2008 - No of course he did not.

MM here is a site which shows the progress with this scheme ...I havent studied it at length but it appears to be heading in the right direction from what I can gather at first glance .......

http://www.fiftythousandjobs.com.au/

mandurahmum

  • Knight of the RT
  • *****
  • Posts: 2560
Re: The ELECTION Thread
« Reply #356 on: July 31, 2010, 01:41:44 AM »
Smee - just over 20,000 in 2.5 years is not much.  

Fluffy - I am not against mining - I live near an Alcoa mine - and you wont hear me complaining about them - because they have been operating for so long - they do care about the community.  They have shown this in so many ways - Pinjarra and Mandurah benefit from them in so many ways.

They also have a great record of rehabilitation - you can take a nice tour to see what they have done.  They are good custodians of the land.

But most mining companies dont - they leave the mine in a disgusting state - that we the taxpayers pay for.  Or as in wittenoom - we just erase the name from our maps.  

Just look at Magellan lead mines - disgusting safety and environmental issues.  If it was not for those birds dying - we would never have known that tonnes of lead dust was blowing in the wind - into peoples water tanks - on their gardens etc.  Where is their compensation, most residents had lead in their blood - we know how dangerous this is for kids.    Magellan promised to

However, the consultants tested the soil, air, water, plants and organisms around the town and found the traces of lead dust were still potent enough to poison birds and insects as well as the mammals that eat them. and thats recently - 3 years after the lead had stopped being transported through esperance.  Magellan Metals gave assurances to the Esperance community as early as 2004 that they would build a smelter in Wiluna and export most of their product as an ingot. This promise was never fulfilled.


I dont soley blame the mining companies - I blame the regulators - they dont follow up properly - they dont enforce their own rules, and when they do the fines are piddly.

http://www.perthnow.com.au/news/western-australia/chevrons-barrow-island-project-leads-to-alleged-environment-breaches/story-e6frg13u-1225874707056

Despite stringent rules, nearly 60 quarantine breaches have been recorded by environmental officials on the Class A nature reserve since production of Chevron’s $43 billion Liquefied Natural Gas hub began in September 2009.

Five breaches were labelled as “critical” and two “major”.


We were promised best practises - I WOULD HATE TO SEE THE WORST

This state is almost held to ransom by mining companies - or else our state and federal government are that corrupt/inept to enforce their own regulations.  Mining companies know this, I am sure, because we all know it.  They can get away with anything - and our government wont do anything but slap them on the wrist.

As for twiggy - he should have evacuated that site - he was given fair warning - but rather than lose a days work - he instructed them to stay in their normal accomodation.  But its ok - he will get away with it - he is blaming the contractors that built the shelter.  








*smee*

  • Action Group
  • Knight of the RT
  • *****
  • Posts: 46871
Re: The ELECTION Thread
« Reply #357 on: July 31, 2010, 02:15:38 AM »
Smee - just over 20,000 in 2.5 years is not much

what ....  your pulling my leg...arent you ?  

20,000 jobs pledged  in just under 2 years (Aug 08 the idea hatched ) is bloody good going I think ..... they havent even trained enough up to fill the available positions yet so no point having more pledged yet really ...they have only filled approx 600 of the available jobs

The funding for training was the Rudd govts responsibility and they are doing it , according to an idigenous job site I read tonight it slowed down due to GFC and they felt ( justifiably so too IMO ) that 2 years was an unrealistic short time to bring it all together .... http://www.indigenousjobs.info/
I think that the main thing is that the program has got off the ground and is creating training and jobs for these people and for that thanks must go to Kevin Rudd , his government team , Twiggy and all those employers whom have employed or pledged employment through this program  

 

*smee*

  • Action Group
  • Knight of the RT
  • *****
  • Posts: 46871
Re: The ELECTION Thread
« Reply #358 on: July 31, 2010, 04:58:29 AM »

bnwt

  • Knight of the RT
  • *****
  • Posts: 3671
Re: The ELECTION Thread
« Reply #359 on: July 31, 2010, 08:53:46 AM »
Coalition hits lead in latest poll


http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2010/07/31/2969633.htm


I wonder if there is enough time to knife gillard and wheel out the new messiah before Aug 21 ??

*r3830*

  • Knight of the RT
  • *****
  • Posts: 3379
Re: The ELECTION Thread
« Reply #360 on: July 31, 2010, 09:07:42 AM »
Crikey!!!! I'm setting my alarm for 0100am! Seems to be when this place comes very much alive! GOOD MORNING ALL!

wyzeguy - I didn't know you were a WAussie! THANKYOU for your explanation of how the taxation on mining works. Living 5000K's away from somewhere does impede an understanding of local conditions and opinions somewhat. That's what I meant earlier where I mentioned being far removed from this issue. The people who live with this thing in their own backyard certainly will have a far better understanding of the whats, wheres and whys.... and its their input that is important moreso than a person who isn't living the experience.

Now if you over tax mining they will go elswhere, down size or restrict their activities and 10's of thousands of jobs will go with it. Blind freddie can even see that.

loco seeks your permission to apply for the position of 'blind freddy'! LOL . Because the above statement appears to be precisely what is happening (from my perspective) ATM. Uncertainty is undermining development - and this certainly will cost us all in the long run. (loved your letter by the way!)

The mining companies do underpin our economy.  I'm no economist (although I did do economics as part of my MBA), but I suspect the only reason Australia did OK in the financial crisis was because of our mined wealth.

Yes without a doubt,  mines do sometimes put their workers health in danger...  but so do many and most other companies.  That is why we have OH & S laws.
   

fluffy - agree completely with these two statements. I believe that their contribution to our economy has on many occasions kept this country out of trouble. I note rebel's comment earlier - that even unexploited, these resources are valuable. But it seems to me that potential income doesn't pay actual bills. (I'll check with the bank on that as applies to the mortgage - although I'm doubtful they'll go for it!  ;D )
 
MM - regarding safety..... Mining is a risky activity, and people certainly can be killed or injured. That probably explains a lot to do with the high rates of pay. The Tasmanian cave-in some years ago was blamed on an earth tremor, and limited follow-up by the company. OHS is a most important matter for any organisation. But, unfortunately, many employees are deliberately negligent in this area as well as employers. Shortcuts can be dangerous. Like putting on a seatbelt in a car.... some regard that five seconds as a waste of time - until a tree jumps out in front of them.

And - 20,000 Aboriginal people employed. That is quite a marvelous thing from where I sit. 40% of the way to target!

*r3830*

  • Knight of the RT
  • *****
  • Posts: 3379
Re: The ELECTION Thread
« Reply #361 on: July 31, 2010, 09:21:39 AM »
GAWD bnwt! I hope Mr Rudd didn't leak under general during his operation!  ;D

*smee*

  • Action Group
  • Knight of the RT
  • *****
  • Posts: 46871
Re: The ELECTION Thread
« Reply #362 on: July 31, 2010, 09:23:43 AM »
he wouldnt have the gall to leake would he ?

*r3830*

  • Knight of the RT
  • *****
  • Posts: 3379
Re: The ELECTION Thread
« Reply #363 on: July 31, 2010, 09:45:45 AM »
You're right - as usual smee!  :lmao:

bnwt

  • Knight of the RT
  • *****
  • Posts: 3671
Re: The ELECTION Thread
« Reply #364 on: July 31, 2010, 09:50:42 AM »
Parental leave levy won't push up prices: Coles

The head of Coles says he does not believe having to pay a levy to fund the Coalition's proposed paid parental leave scheme would push prices up for consumers.


http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2010/07/31/2969672.htm

bnwt

  • Knight of the RT
  • *****
  • Posts: 3671
Re: The ELECTION Thread
« Reply #365 on: July 31, 2010, 10:29:54 AM »
Gillard accused of disregarding national security


A new leak has emerged, alleging that Prime Minister Julia Gillard has a disregard for national security.

http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2010/07/31/2969711.htm?section=justin

*r3830*

  • Knight of the RT
  • *****
  • Posts: 3379
Re: The ELECTION Thread
« Reply #366 on: July 31, 2010, 11:00:42 AM »
smee! Appears we were both wrong..... just keeps getting worse... doesn't it!


Babyland turns against Julia Gillard

NO ONE minds that the Prime Minister is a woman. In fact, they like it. A lot. Nor are people bothered that Julia Gillard doesn't have children. They understand how much her career has meant to her.

But out in Babyland, news that Ms Gillard apparently tried to kill off Labor's paid parental leave scheme, and at the same time tried to limit increases to the age pension, has been met with outright hostility.

Many young families are wondering if she's sneering at them.

They see her stance on parental leave as evidence of a person whose personal choices have left her coldly disconnected from their reality.


http://www.news.com.au/features/federal-election/why-young-families-have-already-lost-faith-in-julia-gillard/story-e6frfllr-1225899241313

shyer

  • Knight of the RT
  • ****
  • Posts: 456
  • from UBB & yib thank you
Re: The ELECTION Thread
« Reply #367 on: July 31, 2010, 11:17:49 AM »
The REAL DANGER is the greens long article worth reading.

http://www.smh.com.au/federal-election/the-watermelon-party-20100730-10zsb.html

Over 90% of australians can see through the greens but 9% are fooled be the green outside.

Quote
Greens are watermelons - green on the outside, red on the inside.............

(from aLabor polititian)Rhiannon, he reminded Parliament, was a former member of the Socialist Party of Australia, a pro-Moscow breakaway from the disintegrating Communist Party of Australia.

"Since the disintegration of the Soviet Union, Ms Lee Rhiannon has led an absolute takeover of the NSW Greens. This attack is aimed at consigning the legitimate environmentalists to political limbo."
.........
THE REAL GOAL


......Economic levers would include cap-and-trade systems, resources would be taxed as they were extracted and income taxes reduced. A carbon tax would be introduced.

Single-use products would disappear, as would short-lived tech products. Public transport is increased, air travel is heavily restricted.

Expensive consumer items are leased and their owners responsible for recycling or reusing their raw materials.

Those on lower incomes would be subsidised to compensate for the higher cost of products and services. The range of incomes would be shrunk to "reward contributions" rather than "multiplying privilege".

Incomes are lower but working hours are reduced.

The credit/debt system is phased out; consumers and investors must save.

Population growth is retarded; the average age increases.

THIS means the Goverment controls everything

Wages, prices, money, goods available and fertility is controlled by Government THAT is COMMUNISM

COMMUNISM does not work only BLIND FOOLS are still true believers
.

bnwt

  • Knight of the RT
  • *****
  • Posts: 3671
Re: The ELECTION Thread
« Reply #368 on: July 31, 2010, 11:39:41 AM »
Labor at it's Best

It's hopeless, give up Kristina

An even greater insight into the madness of state Labor came yesterday with revelations that Premier Keneally has called a special Cabinet meeting for next Tuesday at which every government minister will present their five ideas to fix NSW.


http://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/news/opinion/its-hopeless-give-up-kristina/story-e6frezz0-1225899204158

mandurahmum

  • Knight of the RT
  • *****
  • Posts: 2560
Re: The ELECTION Thread
« Reply #369 on: July 31, 2010, 04:55:46 PM »
shyer - is it really necessary to use such a large font - it seems childish to me

bnwt

  • Knight of the RT
  • *****
  • Posts: 3671
Re: The ELECTION Thread
« Reply #370 on: July 31, 2010, 05:09:29 PM »
I don't get it ??

why do the Labor party want krudd to appear on the campaign trail? ........ he's a dud, that's why Labor had to remove him

now they are saying he such a great bloke we want him to campaign nationally .... whose the PM ??

Labor are completely out of control


mandurahmum

  • Knight of the RT
  • *****
  • Posts: 2560
Re: The ELECTION Thread
« Reply #371 on: July 31, 2010, 05:18:24 PM »
I will ask again - why are the two wars we are currently involved in no longer election issues.

We have just seen 90,000 pages of confidential info leaked by someone in the US armed forces - yet we have no seen any coverage of this on our news.

Apparently this leak will put our solidiers at risk - according to the US government.

When will we have the balls to say to them - no more.  We will no longer put Aussie lives in danger because we no longer trust the USA.  We invaded Iraq because of WMD - on faulty intelligence.  I have no idea why we are still n Afghanistan - according the many US news services and some of the pages that were leaked - Al Quaida is probably in Pakistan.

Bloody hell - we have muslim schools over here that are sending money (yes they have been charged) over to Pakistan schools.  Money that was obtained fraudulently - that for all we know could be helping al quaida.  

Have we just resigned ourselves to the fact that we are in unwinnable wars for as long as it takes?  We have budgeted for 26.6 billion dollars on defence this year - most of that will be spent overseas on our war efforts.

Imagine how many hospitals/schools/road etc that could be built over here with that money.




bnwt

  • Knight of the RT
  • *****
  • Posts: 3671
Re: The ELECTION Thread
« Reply #372 on: July 31, 2010, 05:36:15 PM »
what do you mean TWO wars ??

Australia has no involvement in Iraq


bnwt

  • Knight of the RT
  • *****
  • Posts: 3671
Re: The ELECTION Thread
« Reply #373 on: July 31, 2010, 05:36:35 PM »

mandurahmum

  • Knight of the RT
  • *****
  • Posts: 2560
Re: The ELECTION Thread
« Reply #374 on: July 31, 2010, 05:43:51 PM »
bnwt - your right - I was wrong about troops in Iraq

*r3830*

  • Knight of the RT
  • *****
  • Posts: 3379
Re: The ELECTION Thread
« Reply #375 on: July 31, 2010, 11:34:23 PM »
A scoop! An article about Tony Abbott!

I'm still the underdog, says Tony Abbott



http://www.news.com.au/features/federal-election/im-still-the-underdog-says-tony-abbott/story-e6frfllr-1225899382738

bnwt

  • Knight of the RT
  • *****
  • Posts: 3671
Re: The ELECTION Thread
« Reply #376 on: August 01, 2010, 08:33:59 AM »
Labor demonstrates the dangers of taking it one poll at a time

A government that has lived by polls is now dying by them.

http://www.smh.com.au/federal-election/labor-demonstrates-the-dangers-of-taking-it-one-poll-at-a-time-20100731-110pu.html

bnwt

  • Knight of the RT
  • *****
  • Posts: 3671
Re: The ELECTION Thread
« Reply #377 on: August 01, 2010, 08:43:38 AM »
Alexander Downer accuses Kevin Rudd of Labor betrayal


“I don't use the c-word, but I do use the f-word pretty freely, and I can tell you that Kevin Rudd is a f…ing awful person,” he said.

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/national-affairs/alexander-downer-accuses-kevin-rudd-of-labor-betrayal/story-fn59niix-1225899504122



infamy infamy ............. they've all got it in for me

bnwt

  • Knight of the RT
  • *****
  • Posts: 3671
Re: The ELECTION Thread
« Reply #378 on: August 01, 2010, 09:02:20 AM »
The Rudd we never really knew


http://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/news/opinion/the-rudd-we-never-really-knew/story-e6frezz0-1225899480960


let's all stick the knife in and twist it a few times



HellWest'nCrooked

  • Knight of the RT
  • *****
  • Posts: 4778
Re: The ELECTION Thread
« Reply #379 on: August 01, 2010, 10:22:49 AM »

Wonder if he deserves this.........I may live under a mushroom but has anything as bad as this been written about previous PM's...........I guess so.

Very scathing ....and one will never know if it is "right or wrong"
Ain't no rhyme or reason
No complicated meaning

*r3830*

  • Knight of the RT
  • *****
  • Posts: 3379
Re: The ELECTION Thread
« Reply #380 on: August 01, 2010, 10:34:20 AM »
What you said Westy..... And...

Who the bluddy hell is Mark Latham when all is said and done?

And - who the Hell is Alexander Downer? "Where are you Alistair?"

They all accuse Mr Rudd of the leaks..... no evidence of it .... but why let the facts get in the way of a good bash-up story?

Who's doing all the leaking now? Seems like a srcipt for The Bald and the Breathless to me.

bnwt

  • Knight of the RT
  • *****
  • Posts: 3671
Re: The ELECTION Thread
« Reply #381 on: August 01, 2010, 10:37:45 AM »
I'd suggest it's plain & simple pay back

what goes around comes around

*r3830*

  • Knight of the RT
  • *****
  • Posts: 3379
Re: The ELECTION Thread
« Reply #382 on: August 01, 2010, 10:43:20 AM »
Rudd considers legal action on leak claim

Mr Downer also issued a statement on the matter from overseas, saying his comments had been misinterpreted.

‘‘Kevin Rudd was not used by me or other members of the Liberal Party as a so-called ‘double agent’ to leak material against other members of the Labor Party,’’ he said.


‘‘Unfortunately, (the journalist) has created a more controversial story than my comments warranted.’


ONYA Alexander! If you want to see a close-up of a F***ing C** - go check out the mirror in the mens S***house! Don't think Parliamentary Privilege.... applies while we are away....... does it?

http://www.smh.com.au/federal-election/rudd-considers-legal-action-on-leak-claim-20100801-110yd.html

Rebel*1*

  • Guest
Re: The ELECTION Thread
« Reply #383 on: August 01, 2010, 01:07:56 PM »

They all accuse Mr Rudd of the leaks..... no evidence of it .... but why let the facts get in the way of a good bash-up story?

Who's doing all the leaking now? Seems like a srcipt for The Bald and the Breathless to me.

Exactly, this whole style of gutter politics undermines the Australian Political system and the Australian people, no matter who is engaging in it.  It is all hearsay until it's proven to be fact.  

Now if you over tax mining they will go elswhere, down size or restrict their activities and 10's of thousands of jobs will go with it. Blind freddie can even see that.

LOL, yeah like Afghanistan.  Can't wait to see the ways in which the Mining companies exploit those people.  Magically, in a few years they too, will be getting blackmailed over their resources, but I doubt they'll hand over the key to the coffers for a bag full of beads, quite as easily as we do.  Currently the Copper mining has been awarded to the HIGHEST bidder in Afghanistan, and I see no reason why our resources are being sold to the lowest bidder by comparison.  It's basic economics to achieve the best price isn't it? or is it?

Irrespective of whether they go 'elsewhere', (which btw is highly unlikely) sooner or later, when they deplete the rest of the worlds resources, they'll be back and our resources will be worth even more.

I have never once stated that Mining is not a major industry in this country.  I have never once said that there shouldn't be mining.  But we're now talking about a veritable free for all.  73 new oil and gas leases and 24 new uranium mine projects?  All planned for 2011/12.  

The wealth we already get from mining (without those new mining initiatives) is what has assisted the economy thus far.  However, the mining companies once paid $1-$3.00 and now it is reported that they are paying $1.00 in $7.00.  I'd say therefore that we've already lost more than half of the remuneration we once received for those resources.  Explain why that is?  The ALP released these figures a few months back, the Libs haven't refuted that particular aspect yet have they? who gave the mining industry such a generous concession at our expense ?  IN fact Abbott is campaigning AGAINST getting us a fair price for access to our unrenewable resources and you think that's in our national interest?  

Now consider that almost 100 new mining projects in this country alone are planned for the next few years, (like a bloody gold rush) and that we will still be receiving only $1.00 in $7.00 for those resources under Abbott?  Once depleted, that's the end of that.  and some talk about us being worse off in the long run?  really?   Shouldn't we be getting the best price possible since the resources are unrenewable?

Jobs created vs price paid for access to valuable resources, in my view are two different things, and the blackmail and fear mongering that goes on over jobs, is all spin.  

For instance, How do you think a mining company can get minerals out of the ground without creating jobs?   Do they have droids?  In fact, they have NO choice but to create jobs, because they can't get the minerals mined and realise obscene wealth without workers doing all the hard slog. Seems to me to be reasonably symbiotic.  

They are doing us no favours, they are simply paying for a labour force to gain access to commodities they have otherwise, paid a sixpense for in return for obscene profits.  And you talk about us being worse off in the long run?  Does the term 'UNRENEWABLE' resources have any impact on that kind of short term gain mentality?

The resources are ours, and it stands to reason that if they belong to us, we should be getting the best price for them in the first place.  It's not like every country in the world is as mineral rich.      

ATM. Uncertainty is undermining development - and this certainly will cost us all in the long run. (loved your letter by the way!)

As I've already said, once depleted, we will be paying for that in the long term with much more than jobs.    Simply because we were STUPID enough to sell our unrenewable resources for a song.  Think about that.  

The mining companies do underpin our economy.  I'm no economist (although I did do economics as part of my MBA), but I suspect the only reason Australia did OK in the financial crisis was because of our mined wealth.


That is on the basis of our current mining leases and only at a return of $1.00 in $7.00.  Imagine how much better off we'd be if the last Govt. had demanded more in return for our resources?    Too late now, those resources are already gone baby gone, for a whole $1.00 in $7.00.  How lucky are we eh?

We don't rely on the mining industry in my view, they rely on us.   It's about time we got that through our heads.  We, have the stronger bargaining position yet, we allow ourselves to be blackmailed for a bag full of beads called jobs.  When in reality, without creating those same jobs, they couldn't access our wealth.  Does anyone believe that the mining companies should be paying  a fair price?

bnwt

  • Knight of the RT
  • *****
  • Posts: 3671
Re: The ELECTION Thread
« Reply #384 on: August 01, 2010, 01:17:28 PM »
"Exactly, this whole style of gutter politics undermines the Australian Political system"

what an hilarious comment to make considering the Labor party have refined gutter politics to a fine art

go ahead and blame whoever you want but the only ones responsible for Labor going down the toilet is themselves ... well actually that's not true it's the faceless factions heavies that lurk in the shadows

they have destroyed the Labor party

as I predicted two weeks ago the Liberals wont win ........ rather Labor will lose - MASSIVELY

bnwt

  • Knight of the RT
  • *****
  • Posts: 3671

Rebel*1*

  • Guest
Re: The ELECTION Thread
« Reply #386 on: August 01, 2010, 01:44:09 PM »
You have got to be kidding me.  Labour worse than Liberal in the dirty politics stakes?  I think history would demonstrate otherwise, but I haven't got time to prove that theory right now. 

I also don't happen to think the Aussie people are that naive or that stupid.  The greens have opened their campaign this morning, literally confirming that the profit from our mining resources is going OS, and we are getting a pittance.  He's also made it very clear that under Abbott, everyone else will be taxed, but not the mining companies.  I'm sure Many Aussies will be influenced by the reality being presented by another major party, (who by the way were not invited to debate their election issues with the other two major parties)  convenient?.  I'm sure they would have been throwing some major spanners into the arguments of both sides.  Now that would be a debate worth watching.  'The Cards on the Table' debate.  Bring it on.

Obviously the greens also believe in the Mining industry being taxed, and so do their supporters and those who vote for them. 

You also seem to be underestimating preferences here.  The greens are offering to address various of these REAL issues in the senate, so they will no doubt get second preference votes from all of us who want to keep those issues on the table.


Rebel*1*

  • Guest
Re: The ELECTION Thread
« Reply #387 on: August 01, 2010, 01:46:10 PM »
Julia Gillard gave $100bn tax shelter to three mining giants


http://www.theaustralian.com.au/national-affairs/julia-gillard-gave-100bn-tax-shelter-to-three-mining-giants-andrew-forrest/story-fn59niix-1225899610675

And if she wasn't giving them concessions (with similar threats they toppled a PM over), she'd be the bad guy right?  The Libs will give the mining industry much more in terms of concessions.   The only difference is they'll do so willingly and behind closed doors.


bnwt

  • Knight of the RT
  • *****
  • Posts: 3671
Re: The ELECTION Thread
« Reply #388 on: August 01, 2010, 01:56:47 PM »
Labor figures bet against own party

Centrebet primary analyst Neil Evans was reported as saying: "I can't tell you who, but I can tell you this: these are people very high up."

http://au.news.yahoo.com/a/-/latest/7681669/labor-figures-bet-against-own-party/

mandurahmum

  • Knight of the RT
  • *****
  • Posts: 2560
Re: The ELECTION Thread
« Reply #389 on: August 01, 2010, 04:33:55 PM »
What you said Westy..... And...

Who the bluddy hell is Mark Latham when all is said and done?

And - who the Hell is Alexander Downer? "Where are you Alistair?"

They all accuse Mr Rudd of the leaks..... no evidence of it .... but why let the facts get in the way of a good bash-up story?

Who's doing all the leaking now? Seems like a srcipt for The Bald and the Breathless to me.

I agree - I really dont like Latham

bnwt

  • Knight of the RT
  • *****
  • Posts: 3671
Re: The ELECTION Thread
« Reply #390 on: August 01, 2010, 05:16:51 PM »
Greens warn of 'deadlock' under Tony Abbott


http://www.theaustralian.com.au/news/breaking-news/greens-warn-of-deadlock-under-tony-abbott/story-fn3dxity-1225899677145


what bob brown is really saying is that voting for the greens is more then likely a complete and utter waste of time

square peg

  • Knight of the RT
  • *****
  • Posts: 2684
Re: The ELECTION Thread
« Reply #391 on: August 01, 2010, 06:54:05 PM »
Hi Mandurahmum, I haven't read past this post, but I wanted to comment on this part of yours if I may.

When will we have the balls to say to them - no more.  We will no longer put Aussie lives in danger because we no longer trust the USA.  We invaded Iraq because of WMD - on faulty intelligence.  I have no idea why we are still n Afghanistan - according the many US news services and some of the pages that were leaked - Al Quaida is probably in Pakistan

My soon to be ex landlord is involved in the SAS and has just returned from time in Afghanistan. My son asked him why they were over there and his response was something like this (please keep in mind that I was not really paying attention) The purpose of their presence in Afghanastan is to assist in establishing a strong government to withstand threats of terrorism and the development of "safe havens" for terrorist groups. (Thus protecting the rest of the world). He said that they would be there for about another 5 years and then maintain a consistent presence and ongoing support and training. he also spoke of something to do with Afghanastan being a gateway for terrorism which needed to be plugged.

I really don't understand how it all works, but I am under the impression that they need to establish a govt. committed to fighting terrorism and not harbouring it.

I believe that the information given to my son would have been "dumbed down" to suit a 14 year old, in addition to no doubt excluding information which he was not at liberty to share with any Tom Dick or Harry (or Tennant)
When opportunity knocks, don't complain about the noise.

*Yibida*

  • Action Group
  • Knight of the RT
  • *****
  • Posts: 17998
Re: The ELECTION Thread
« Reply #392 on: August 01, 2010, 07:02:18 PM »

Afghanistan is unwinable... research History ... the Russians warned them... Russia failed also after many years and pulled out ... Russia told them ""this was our Vietnam""...

Rebel*1*

  • Guest
Re: The ELECTION Thread
« Reply #393 on: August 01, 2010, 07:14:41 PM »
Absolutely Yibida, but you're forgetting, they've just found a conservative $1 Trillion in untapped mineral resources, and news stories I posted way back in this thread, now estimate that we'll be in that country for decades.  The new war will be over protecting what the US believe is their fair share for their 'investment' of War (and this was well before minerals were discovered there) which is the very word they used to describe their concerns over China getting the First Copper mining contract.  I feel like we've been through this movie before in previous decades.  

*Yibida*

  • Action Group
  • Knight of the RT
  • *****
  • Posts: 17998
Re: The ELECTION Thread
« Reply #394 on: August 01, 2010, 07:19:33 PM »


That's all well and good Reb but are our leaders smart enough to get into the action $... we always seem to get shafted and never rewarded for anything Australia does to help the international community... betcha the Yanks will give us a few crumbs and say thanks for our efforts over there...

Rebel*1*

  • Guest
Re: The ELECTION Thread
« Reply #395 on: August 01, 2010, 07:26:57 PM »
No Yib our pollies are too busy bending over for the yanks.  That's what offends me the most I think. Our boys are over there on false pretenses in the first place, given the US history with the middle east and Bin Laden himself. And even though they've found mineral resources I bet their allies are the last on the list of those being remunerated.   They're always bloody meddling.  Just look at South America as a brilliant example of their kind of 'democracy' in action.  The middle east is just the new South America.   Who knows Yib, we could have been led into this invasion because the US already suspected there was untapped mineral wealth.  As I said earlier, not WMD's, but MMP's = Minerals of Mass profit.

Rebel*1*

  • Guest
Re: The ELECTION Thread
« Reply #396 on: August 01, 2010, 07:29:46 PM »
Oh, and if anyone thinks that 9/11 was justification enough for this silly war, then I would ask you to recall a similar terrorist bombing in Bali.  We hardly declared war over it did we?  How many lives will be lost internationally before this war is over?  I'll bet you that it will be many more than those who died in 9/11. No disrespect meant to those innocent victims of an attack on America.  NOT Australia.  

mandurahmum

  • Knight of the RT
  • *****
  • Posts: 2560
Re: The ELECTION Thread
« Reply #397 on: August 01, 2010, 07:47:06 PM »
Hi Mandurahmum, I haven't read past this post, but I wanted to comment on this part of yours if I may.

When will we have the balls to say to them - no more.  We will no longer put Aussie lives in danger because we no longer trust the USA.  We invaded Iraq because of WMD - on faulty intelligence.  I have no idea why we are still n Afghanistan - according the many US news services and some of the pages that were leaked - Al Quaida is probably in Pakistan

My soon to be ex landlord is involved in the SAS and has just returned from time in Afghanistan. My son asked him why they were over there and his response was something like this (please keep in mind that I was not really paying attention) The purpose of their presence in Afghanastan is to assist in establishing a strong government to withstand threats of terrorism and the development of "safe havens" for terrorist groups. (Thus protecting the rest of the world). He said that they would be there for about another 5 years and then maintain a consistent presence and ongoing support and training. he also spoke of something to do with Afghanastan being a gateway for terrorism which needed to be plugged.

I really don't understand how it all works, but I am under the impression that they need to establish a govt. committed to fighting terrorism and not harbouring it.

I believe that the information given to my son would have been "dumbed down" to suit a 14 year old, in addition to no doubt excluding information which he was not at liberty to share with any Tom Dick or Harry (or Tennant)

Soldiers are expected to say that - they are not allowed to say anything negative or even truthful.

Thats why that soldier leaked those 90,000 pages of 'confidential info'  because sometimes its the only way to get the truth out there.

*smee*

  • Action Group
  • Knight of the RT
  • *****
  • Posts: 46871
Re: The ELECTION Thread
« Reply #398 on: August 01, 2010, 07:48:08 PM »
Mulder  & Scully knew the truth was out there

*Yibida*

  • Action Group
  • Knight of the RT
  • *****
  • Posts: 17998
Re: The ELECTION Thread
« Reply #399 on: August 01, 2010, 07:49:56 PM »


But never found it..