The Chris Dawson Q & A Thread regarding "best Match"

[shyer]

.....
I've heard of it happening, I've no doubt it does happen, but I'd caution strongly against it. Contrary to popular opinion eBay are getting remarkably good at linking accounts and if you even log in to two accounts from the same PC they'll know it.....
A wise ex-eBay employee once said to me "It's much easier to see conspiracy than to credit eBay with any intelligence or the ability to communicate effectively" and that's so true
(Not of course that I could possibly want to make fun of eBay ;-) )

Chris with out going into specifics on a few higher priced items it is in fact incredibly easy to do for some one with knowledge of the IT industry with the right options available. In ebay Australian forums a few years ago we had a ID micks folly who retired from embarrassing ebay as it was too easy and continuing no longer served any purpose.

[*Brum6y*]

Chris, we have our own home-grown site called OZtion that is a direct alternative in terms of structure.  It still is patchy in terms of sales across the spectrum, but that is slowly moving ahead from what I've seen.

It has had a notable and continuing growth in membership commensurate with the degree of disruption from eBay's "disruptive innovation" and frustration of both buyers and sellers alike.

This is especially true when bulk quantities of overseas products (especiallly from our northern neighbours) appear to flood various categories with often sub-standard quality goods.

Have your efforts shown
 (a) any awareness of these issues by eBay
 (b) any consideration by eBay to address them (I notice "fine jewelry" has been recently reorganised
 (c) any suggestions for remedial tactics by sellers within the current circumstances?

[TameBayChris]

Chris with out going into specifics on a few higher priced items it is in fact incredibly easy to do for some one with knowledge of the IT industry with the right options available. In ebay Australian forums a few years ago we had a ID micks folly who retired from embarrassing ebay as it was too easy and continuing no longer served any purpose.

Easy to do on a couple of items, incredibly difficult to do on an ongoing basis for a pro seller on 1000s of items. As I said I've no doubt it may happen, but not something I'd be willing to risk my business on or suggest anyone else does.

[shyer]

Thank you Chris for your time, and insights. I have to go and feed the animals 4 and 2 legged ones before they eat each other. I will read more later. I am sure all people here at this forum are happy to have you visit any time you want

[*Brum6y*]

Chris with out going into specifics on a few higher priced items it is in fact incredibly easy to do for some one with knowledge of the IT industry with the right options available. In ebay Australian forums a few years ago we had a ID micks folly who retired from embarrassing ebay as it was too easy and continuing no longer served any purpose.

Easy to do on a couple of items, incredibly difficult to do on an ongoing basis for a pro seller on 1000s of items. As I said I've no doubt it may happen, but not something I'd be willing to risk my business on or suggest anyone else does.

I might add that, even if you were able to structure a multiple-ID multiple IP address metrics stimulating program, by its very nature you would likely be generating a pattern of usage on your inventory that could make itself obvious and/or enable isolation.  The more products involved, the greater this risk.

And I have little doubt that, if discovered, eBay would not be amused...!

[TameBayChris]

Chris, we have our own home-grown site called OZtion that is a direct alternative in terms of structure.  It still is patchy in terms of sales across the spectrum, but that is slowly moving ahead from what I've seen.

It has had a notable and continuing growth in membership commensurate with the degree of disruption from eBay's "disruptive innovation" and frustration of both buyers and sellers alike.

This is especially true when bulk quantities of overseas products (especiallly from our northern neighbours) appear to flood various categories with often sub-standard quality goods.

Have your efforts shown
 (a) any awareness of these issues by eBay
 (b) any consideration by eBay to address them (I notice "fine jewelry" has been recently reorganised
 (c) any suggestions for remedial tactics by sellers within the current circumstances?

I've noticed practically every alternative site has had pick up from new buyers. I think it's driven by a number of things - sellers are spreading their wings. Buyers are maturing with the Internet and happy to buy from sites other than main stream. That's why many sellers are having great success with their own websites.  Alternative sites in the UK at least they're all struggling to gain traction, even those that have been around for years. Niche websites from individual sellers are a much better option.

On the bulk quantities of overseas products that's more tricky. eBay are constantly trying to re-balance sites as whilst a flavour of overseas goods gives buyers choice being flooded with them isn't good. It's no secret that in general a domestic transaction is more likely to be a good buying experience than an international one (e.g. DSR qualification for Top Seller is based on domestic transactions only) so it's not desirable that the site is overloaded with overseas sellers.

Have eBay got the balance right? Not yet. Does Best Match help? Yes, because every time a buyers sees (a search impression) and doesn't buy (a sale) the score on that listing goes down so through best match buyers will eventually determine what's a quality listing and what's a less desirable listing.

(Auctions are a LOT more difficult to balance and eBay definitely have work to do in that area!)

[TameBayChris]

Thank you Chris for your time, and insights. I have to go and feed the animals 4 and 2 legged ones before they eat each other. I will read more later. I am sure all people here at this forum are happy to have you visit any time you want

Thanks Shyer. I have about another 20 minutes and then I have to get on with some work as well, but I'll pop back later in the day and try to catch up. In the mean time if anyone has questions feel free to ping me a message or you can always catch me on TameBay

[*Brum6y*]

Polish up the crystal ball for this one.....


The inference from your last post is that things should stabilise over time and a better reflection of 'best match' actually approaching it's intention will come.


Any thoughts on when ..?  (How long do we hold our breath?)

[wyzeguy60]

hi Chris - only if you have time.
I only sell auction and always start at 99 cents.
I have 4.9, 5, 5, 5 stars
I always get good prices.
does best match disadvantage me
cheers

[*Countessa*]

Chris, can you confirm that there are some aspects of the "best match" algorithm that are not known to the general public, and which may be presenting results that are sometimes quite noticeably different to what the buyer wants to see?

[TameBayChris]

Polish up the crystal ball for this one.....


The inference from your last post is that things should stabilise over time and a better reflection of 'best match' actually approaching it's intention will come.


Any thoughts on when ..?  (How long do we hold our breath?)

eBay will never stabilise - sadly they'll always find something to tinker with, but yes over time more desirable listings should rise to the top... until eBay make another change

[*Brum6y*]

Have eBay got the balance right? Not yet. Does Best Match help? Yes, because every time a buyers sees (a search impression) and doesn't buy (a sale) the score on that listing goes down so through best match buyers will eventually determine what's a quality listing and what's a less desirable listing.

I have one reservation on that .... It relies on buyers being persistent enough to have made enough 'impressions' and purchasing to bore through the rubbish.  In some of the niche areas, they may just give up before getting there or buy something sub-standard because that's all they found (by not examining ALL the pages of the returned search results).

[TameBayChris]

hi Chris - only if you have time.
I only sell auction and always start at 99 cents.
I have 4.9, 5, 5, 5 stars
I always get good prices.
does best match disadvantage me
cheers

Best Match doesn't affect you in the slightest! :-D Auctions are sorted time ending soonest and the only thing you have to worry about is not dropping DSRs to become sub-standard and being demoted in search. Other than that you've nothing to worry about other than your listing title and item specifics to make sure your products get found in the search recall

[*Countessa*]

The sense I get is that whoever is involved in inputting ideas, and the majority of those making the decisions, and all of those involved in implementing those ideas (technically), actually don't use eBay. They approach it from an ivory tower perspective where the ivory comes from the tusks of their own dead white elephant graveyard of comprehension. New "changes" seem to be rolled out without regard to whether they're of any use.

It reminds me a little of the way Sultan Moulay Ismael would tear down the back-breaking work of his unfortunate white slaves during and after the Restoration period. (Giles Milton - "White Gold".) Pointless, pointless, pointless...

[TameBayChris]

Chris, can you confirm that there are some aspects of the "best match" algorithm that are not known to the general public, and which may be presenting results that are sometimes quite noticeably different to what the buyer wants to see?

I don't know about other sites but in the UK everything that's "in" best match is on http://tamebay.com/2009/11/best-match-secrets-part-2-how-products-are-sorted.html

The part eBay tinker with is what is "best value". Currently eBay consider the best value to be the rate at which an item sells but that has changed in the past.

Often changes are tests which eBay are constantly running to verify what works and what doesn't

[TameBayChris]

I have one reservation on that .... It relies on buyers being persistent enough to have made enough 'impressions' and purchasing to bore through the rubbish.  In some of the niche areas, they may just give up before getting there or buy something sub-standard because that's all they found (by not examining ALL the pages of the returned search results).

The sense I get is that whoever is involved in inputting ideas, and the majority of those making the decisions, and all of those involved in implementing those ideas (technically), actually don't use eBay. They approach it from an ivory tower perspective where the ivory comes from the tusks of their own dead white elephant graveyard of comprehension. New "changes" seem to be rolled out without regard to whether they're of any use.

It reminds me a little of the way Sultan Moulay Ismael would tear down the back-breaking work of his unfortunate white slaves during and after the Restoration period. (Giles Milton - "White Gold".) Pointless, pointless, pointless...

For sure there was a long bedding in period when Best Match was introduced and sellers saw very volatile search results and sales.

I've often complained that eBay 1) Don't use the site enough and 2) Don't share enough valuable information -  The second is a view shared by Dan Wilson who used to work for eBay

[*smee*]

It reminds me a little of the way Sultan Moulay Ismael would tear down the back-breaking work of his unfortunate white slaves during and after the Restoration period. (Giles Milton - "White Gold".) Pointless, pointless, pointless...
 
   
thats the first comparision that sprang to my mind to Countess  

[*Brum6y*]

Often changes are tests which eBay are constantly running to verify what works and what doesn't

While the logic of doing this live is obvious, the morality of it is abhorrent - especially when it is directly affecting sales and income of sellers.

* steps off soapbox *

[*Countessa*]

Smee, I knew we'd be on the same wavelength here... Would you like to borrow my copy of Harald's Chronicle of the Slavs, which may provide you with some other apt comparisons?

Chris, have you noticed at all any difference in the type of "best match" results on different eBay sites?

When I look for antique items, I don't even bother checking on eBay.com.au. Even though I'd specify the same search terms, and tick "Worldwide", I would get only a fraction of the results that I'd receive if I checked on eBay.co.uk with the exact same search terms.

[*Brum6y*]

Smee ....?

Smee ....?

(I think his eyes have glazed over.......)