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41
The Round Table / Re: Tales From The Narc Side
« Last post by tellomon on April 29, 2024, 10:41:02 AM »
THE SECRET LIVES OF THE NARCISSIST

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lxoXsIn8-qY


@jennifernewton4637
2 hours ago
Their secret lives are another way they keep you off kilter. You catch them lying about where they’ve been and then you go down a rabbit hole of wondering WHAT ELSE they’ve been lying about and soon you’re questioning EVERYTHING they say and do and it makes you feel like you’re losing your mind. Then if you QUESTION where they’re going, what they’re doing, and who they’re doing it with, they tell you you’re paranoid or you’re crazy (which, in your mind, VALIDATES your fear that you’re losing your mind). It’s psychological torture and VERY cruel.
42
The Round Table / Re: Tales From The Narc Side
« Last post by tellomon on April 29, 2024, 10:14:21 AM »
Do children of narcissists
often avoid becoming
narcissists themselves?

No, children of Narcissists do not know what a Narcissist is. They believe their parents are normal, loving, and always correct. It’s very similar to how grown people fall for the Narcissist’s charm, only that we were kids and they were grownups who should have known better.

Children of Narcissists rarely realize that their parent/s are Narcissists. Instead, they tend to go two ways. One becomes a narcissist because that’s all they learned and know. The other tries very hard to fix themselves because they know that their narcissistic parent is correct about how messed up they are.

The 2nd will eventually wake up one day, and say oh my, I was deceived by the one person that I love the most. She is Mom. Then they wonder how can anyone ever love a monster like me, when my own mother couldn’t love me? Is it that perhaps I’m worse than her? Therapy helps a lot, but these questions linger.

You doubt your therapist a lot and wonder why are they even trying to be nice to you… I mean, I am the daughter of a Narcissist… The most vile creature of all. The one who pits her own children against each other and laughs. I thought all mothers did this…

Can you really trust the daughter of a Narcissist? I came from her. She taught me her ways. I’m I not just like her? My therapist will kindly reassure me that I’m nothing like my mother. He will point out how I love my children and always want what’s best for them. He will say how my husband adores me because I’m a good person.

But - I’m I really? Is that even possible? He is a good man, but I’m a damaged woman. I’m broken and no matter how hard I try to be the very best I can be, my past comes to hunt me.


https://survivingthenarcissistsspace.quora.com/Do-children-of-narcissists-often-avoid-becoming-narcissists-themselves?topAns=1477743757075153
43
The Round Table / Re: Tales From The Narc Side
« Last post by tellomon on April 29, 2024, 10:02:33 AM »
Are narcissists really oblivious
to their boundless selfishness?

Narcissists are selfish and even delusional, in the sense that they represent themselves to you as something they are not. Then they actually “live” this fantasy out.

They also don't care about morals, because they don't have any. All morals they proclaim to possess are only in relation to how choices affect them. This makes them supreme hypocrites.

I know there are some hoity-toity "professionals" who have been going around on different Quora accounts and making fun of the writers who said narcissists are delusional. They claim that narcissists aren't delusional.

I often point such scoffers to a well-known Ph.D. on Quora who writes about how narcissists are indeed quite delusional and can also bring you down into Delulu Island with them if you stick around them long enough.

And yet, quite a few non-narcissists actually already reside on Delulu Island, truth be told. We have expectations for people that they aren't capable of, and people represent themselves in the most false of ways, even to the extreme as narcissists do.

We also paint a picture of narcissists as something they are not, even when the red flags come along. I understand that sometimes the red flags aren't obvious, and people not versed in narcissism aren't often aware of them. But as of 2024, narcissistic abuse resources are everywhere now.

Almost everyone by now has heard of narcissism. And so I have hope things will improve.

But I digress.

Yes, narcissists are extremely selfish, and they capitalize on that they can bring out a lower level mode of existence out of their victims or hosts (because narcissists are parasites). At first, they feed you with "love" and endless attention. They give you what you want, and they lovebomb you to oblivion.

This develops an extreme attachment to a narcissist, and soon enough, your fantasties revolve around a happily ever after with them built on the lies of Disney movies and religious conditioning that keep you a slave to “love.” This is how they work both sides of the coin. Soon enough, they take this away and starve you. This is how you become "addicted." And yet, your idealisation gets worse with time. You don’t want to let go of feelings.

Narcissists are the most manipulative and selfish individuals to ever disgrace this planet. But we have to stop idealizing them. If you don't, you run the risk of becoming a bit like them, and not only that, you're worshipping a pile of garbage. Who wants that?

I understand though. It takes supreme willpower and mind over matter to fight this battle. You have to get out of your feelings, and also take control of your thoughts. No idealisation. Break that. I know that biology is also powerful here. Thankfully, some of us don't have as high a sex drive, and with age, that dies down, so that helps.

But for younger victims, this may be a major problem. The sex has blinded you and made you a slave to your feelings and sensations. This is exactly how a narcissist operates as they are also slaves to their sensations.I would recommend getting into a fitness routine or something that takes your mind off of sex. You are in a trauma bond and sexual addiction with the narcissist.

Realise that sex is also 90% mental and physical expression is only a reflection of this. (Sex with narcissists isn't even that good because they are selfish and they cannot connect to you.) I was just reading a post where a woman was going on and on about how "beautiful" the sex was with an ex-narcissist, and I was really stunned because I never experienced this. This is why I said that some victims are living on Delulu Island and need to stop idealising.

The idealising of a narcissist is also 90% of the "attraction" you have for them, I can guarantee this. That's why I said mind over matter. The power of the mind is more powerful than the heart and if you can elevate to a higher level, even our natural makeup or biology. When people say they love from the heart, I would also advise to not trust one's feelings, as mentioned. Love is different than feelings. Love is not the same.

So while we know narcissists are very selfish, abusive, and lack boundaries, it's also important to notice our own boundaries when it comes to how we view them. Wanting to hold onto false illusions and delusions creates a bond with the narcissist that will be more difficult to extricate from, and not only that, the emphasis on "feelings" and sensations creates the risk that we reside on the narcissist's lower level of existence.

We need to rise above their level and use our power of mind over matter, which is something the narcissist can never do because they lack the higher level thinking and morality to do so. Remember, they are boundless, egocentric creatures who thrive on a very base, animalistic level, even the ones who are more "cerebral" aren't as intelligent as they seem, just crafty, egotistical pieces of garbage who are trying to get ahead at your expense.

So while narcissists are oblivious to their own lower level mode of being, we don’t have to live on their Delulu Island. Let’s get back to the land of reality and common sense.

                   
*************************
Just a bit of an explanation here. People have been plagiarizing my writing and Quora wants me to prove this after I alerted them. Even though they have access to all of my posts that are dated, I am still waiting for a response. One individual has basically copy-pasted my writing word for word, and isn’t even afraid of being found out. So on every post I am now including a copyright.
Copyright (c) 2024 by Gwen on Quora


:tello: "Thanks Gwen".
__________________________________

Narcissists often exhibit a lack of awareness or concern regarding the impact of their selfish behaviors on others, but whether they are truly oblivious to their boundless selfishness is a complex question.

Here are some factors to consider:

Lack of Empathy: Narcissists typically lack empathy, the ability to understand and share the feelings of others. This lack of empathy can make it difficult for them to recognize or acknowledge the emotional consequences of their selfish actions on others. They may be more focused on fulfilling their own needs and desires without considering how it affects those around them.

Grandiosity and Entitlement: Narcissists often have an inflated sense of self-importance and entitlement, believing they are superior to others and deserving of special treatment. This grandiosity can lead them to believe that their needs and desires are more important than those of others, making it easier for them to justify their selfish behaviors without feeling remorse or guilt.

Defense Mechanisms: Narcissists commonly use defense mechanisms such as denial, rationalization, and projection to protect their fragile self-esteem and avoid facing uncomfortable truths about themselves. They may deny or minimize their selfishness, rationalize their behavior as justified, or project their own flaws onto others to avoid taking responsibility for their actions.

Manipulation and Control: Narcissists often use manipulation and control tactics to get what they want from others. They may exploit the vulnerabilities or insecurities of others to manipulate them into fulfilling their needs or desires, without regard for the well-being of those individuals. This manipulation can further reinforce their sense of entitlement and diminish their awareness of their own selfishness.

Cognitive Dissonance: Some narcissists may experience cognitive dissonance, a psychological phenomenon where they hold contradictory beliefs or attitudes. They may simultaneously believe they are special and deserving of admiration while also engaging in selfish behaviors that contradict these beliefs. To resolve this cognitive dissonance, they may distort reality or engage in mental gymnastics to justify their actions and maintain their self-image.

While narcissists may not always be completely oblivious to their selfishness, their underlying psychological traits, defense mechanisms, and cognitive distortions often contribute to a lack of awareness or concern regarding the impact of their behavior on others. It's important to note that narcissism exists on a spectrum, and individuals may vary in their level of self-awareness and capacity for change.


44
The Round Table / Re: Tales From The Narc Side
« Last post by tellomon on April 29, 2024, 09:36:11 AM »
What makes a narcissist
resent you?

A narcissist, certainly in a relationship capacity will do their absolute utmost to try and make their victim dependent on them.

For those prepared to stick around they usually succeed until the great day comes when victim either calls time, or as is more common gets traded in for someone fresh. The worst thing therefore is when these people not only move forward in their lives but make great strides ahead, having finally rid themselves of the shackles that were holding them back in the first place. Nothing worse for a narcissist than to be left behind when an ex appears to be doing so much better without them.

In the workplace those people of level pegging with narcissist who get singled out for promotion ahead of narcissist will reliably have their cards marked for some kind of smear campaign.

Ditto friends or siblings who in contrast to narcissists claims of some residual flaw or another also appear to be making something of their life, which is at odds with everything narcissist expected. [Or hoped more like. ]

In essence anyone who at one time was part of a narcissists inner circle, and appears to be leaving them in their wake will always have their no w ex narcissist seething with resentment. When you have been top dog up to now it can become somewhat galling to come across as now lying in second place.

That plus an innate jealousy which goes all the way back means it should always be them claiming credit an no one else. They always learn the hard way that they are no where near as sought after as thought.

Suggest read chapter ’50 stages to dating a narcissist’ in book entitled:

‘Prepare to be tortured. The price you will pay for dating a narcissist’.

Available amazon books and audio.
_______________________________________

Envy!

Every amazing character trait that makes you, you, will also be a beacon for narcissists.

Why will they resent you? Because you are every single thing in this world that they are not, will not, and can not ever be! Because they lack all of the morals and virtues that you were raised to have and Possessing only weak characters and accompanied with paranoid delusions.

They refuse to acknowledge that you are better than they are. At least outwardly. Their paranoid delusions will keep them convinced of their “superiority.” Yet still resent you.
______________________________________

Narcissists resent you for loving them.

Narcissists do, however, want to know they can make you fall in love with them.

It validates them.

Conquering your love, it is a game they want to win.

But –

the moment they have conquered you, your love and devotion,

the moment you prioritize them over all other things and people in your life,

they have reached their goal.

You are now no longer a challenge, your perceived utility falls, their interest in you wanes.

Feelings of love and compassion.

Narcissists view those who feel love and compassion intensely, as a weakness.

These feelings, are things which can make you vulnerable and susceptible, things which narcissists avoid at all cost. Now that you have shown these weaknesses, your value has also fallen.

Lastly, narcissists feel worthless and unlovable in their core. The fact that anyone, being you here, can love them, just means you yourself are worthless, clearly inferior to them and not worthy of occupying an important part of their life.

The game of love for the narcissist, is a game to validate them initially, and now that they have won you can now resettle into your new role –

being that dreadful object of devaluation.
_______________________________________

Any traits which reflect my humanity: connection with others, a sense of right and wrong, spirituality, creativity, enjoying the journey, growing as an individual, standing up for what is right.

Oh, and my self-worth is not determined by what I own, how I look, who I know or what I do for a living.

More than anything, he despises my quest for The Truth.


45
The Round Table / Re: Tales From The Narc Side
« Last post by tellomon on April 29, 2024, 09:07:53 AM »
Why do narcissists lie all the time?

A narcissist lies that way because most often, the truth makes them look bad. Someone showing traits of narcissism has an extremely difficult time admitting when they’re wrong.

A narcissistic person will go to great lengths to avoid accountability rather than admit fault. They already deep down feel like they are a bad person, so they run from anything negative that confirms it. A person with traits of narcissism will lie and stick with the lie even with evidence to the contrary.
___________________________________

Narcissists are pathological liars. Narcissists lie because they're arrogant; they feel as if they have a right to whatever they want, whenever they want, however they want. They lie to ensure they're able to dominate, manipulate, exploit, and silence people. They lie to maintain their false reality, and they lie because the truth makes them uncomfortable.

Narcissists also experience extreme shame; they feel shame when people find out they have made a mistake. A narcissist doesn't want to look flawed at any cost to avoid being shamed.

The worst thing is that narcissists believe they are telling the truth. Narcissists believe people, including you, are fools who will easily believe them. Narcissists feel it's very easy to outsmart people.

Narcissists just want to see themselves as right and perfect in front of people, so they keep lying.
____________________________________

It becomes second nature to them. It would be easier than having to face reality. This would be especially true if it would be of a negative case where it may have had ruined their image. Simply gaslighting themself out of it or to rephrase the situation to be in a better light would be much easier to do than to have to face the reality of it.

It may seem outlandish to an onlooker, but to the narcissist it would make sense, especially since they have had become so accustomed to lying. This would be especially true if lying would require less effort when upon their part. They then may unintentionally run themself into a corner while insisting otherwise to everyone else whom may notice.

The prior partners and people whom they may have misused would probably notice just how poorly they had become. They would insist otherwise of course or may even flip the situation and to paint themself as the true victim, be it they were the one whom partook in such horrific actions upon other people.

They also may forget what they had lied about too, so their narrative would seem to stop making sense.


46
The Round Table / Re: Tales From The Narc Side
« Last post by tellomon on April 29, 2024, 08:45:54 AM »
Can you stop being a narcissist?
Can it be fixed?

A lot of the time when I see questions like this, I want to tell the full truth. I want to tell the people what it takes for a narcissist to get better. Psychotherapy with a trained professional for 5–10 years, etc, etc. I want to tell them there are self aware narcissists. I want to tell them that there is a small sliver of a chance they change for the better.

I’m going to try a new approach though, because I honestly think a white lie is needed here.


No, they can’t.

And when I say that, I acknowledge that I am lying to you. But in reality, I want you to trust my next few sentences with all your heart. The 1% chance the narcissist in your life gets better, is not worth the 25–50% chance of you keeping them in your life to some degree. The 1% chance your narcissist goes to therapy, is not worth the the time or energy you waste on helping someone that is twice as hard to help and twice as likely to not want it.

The 1% chance your narcissist adjusts well to their affliction, is not worth your peace of mind. The 1% chance you help or see them change, is not worth the torment to your health, mind, heart & soul. If you want to hold out hope, do it from a very safe distance of No Contact and put the responsibility 1000% on them to take the steps necessary. At the very least, size-able distance emotionally.

So again, No they can’t.
___________________________________

The first thing that needs to be clarified here is what you mean by narcissist?

There are a lot of people with narcissistic traits, I would hazard a guess that the vast majority of people do to some degree. There are also those who have quite obvious narcissistic traits, but are largely just people that manifest as perhaps a bit self obsessed or manipulative etc. Then there is the small percentage of people who can truly be classified as suffering from narcissistic personality disorder, which is what I will assume you mean.

Seeing as true narcissists suffer from a personality disorder, I wouldn't go as far as to say they can be fixed, as personality disorders aren't known to just disappear; you wouldn't expect someone with borderline personality disorder to just be fixed. It is however entirely possible for the condition to be managed and consequently have it's detrimental effects considerably lessened.

The issue with narcissistic personality disorder sufferers is that by the very nature of the disorder, getting them to admit they need therapy and then indeed getting them through the door to actually access it are extremely difficult.

But in theory, they can be 'fixed’ or managed in much the same way that any other personality disorder can; the issue is convincing them that they need treatment.

This is only my opinion from what I have observed in my profession and personal life over the years.

I hope this helps.
_____________________________________

Stop thinking you are better (more intelligent, better looking, more enlightened etc) than everyone else. Or, if you can’t do that, stop responding to people as though you believe you are better than they are. Keep it to yourself.

Listen to people when they talk. Actually pay attention to what they’re saying. Don’t immediately dismiss it as boring or unimportant and switch off - engage with them, try to really get absorbed in their experience of life.

Ask people questions. They exist! They are interesting! Not every conversation has to be all about you!

Stop fantasising about achieving power over others or success. Just accept that you do what you do in the moment and that’s good enough. Enjoy life in the now.

Stop exaggerating your status and achievements. Seriously. Don’t lie about yourself. Just tell people the truth.

Don’t get into relationships with people just because they adore you if you don’t adore them back. Don’t exploit them or use them. Just keep them as friends.

Stop seeing people’s flaws as weaknesses. If people show emotion it isn’t a weakness, if a person isn’t perfect they aren’t weak. They’re human. Show some compassion for them.

Don’t get angry at people and cut them out if they don’t immediately shower you with praise and admiration.

Don’t get annoyed at people who challenge you, and similarly, don’t immediately dismiss their criticism of you as ‘jealousy’. Take a look at what they’ve said about you and try to determine if any of it is even a tiny bit true.

Reflect.


https://www.quora.com/Can-you-stop-being-a-narcissist-Can-it-be-fixed
47
The Round Table / Re: Tales From The Narc Side
« Last post by tellomon on April 29, 2024, 08:31:54 AM »
How dangerous is
a malignant narcissist?

Deadly dangerous.

Seriously, they have no problem ending your life and will if they can get away with it. The malignant narcissist is a psychopath and capable of cold murder.

If you are in a relationship with one, your life is in danger. I know from personal experience. Mine tried to end my life, twice.

And I still spent months ruminating!

Oh yes, they are dangerous. Survivors (if you survive) find their lives destroyed. Nobody walks away with their health, career, friends, and family intact. You crawl away broken, beaten, spent, and scarred. Isolated and broke. Sick. You are in therapy.

Listen well, a malignant narcissist will destroy you. Yes, they will kill you. They don't feel remorse. I've read the stories of these psychopaths. Your life is in danger, usually in a cowardly and indirect way including poison, arson, “accidents", etc.

You don't read some of these stories, because the victim is dead. Let that sink in.

“My narcissist killed me and got away with it” is not a Quora post. Why?

Because dead people don't post on Quora.

It's critical to realize that fact. On here you only read about the survivors. I've read of narcissists drugging their victims and setting their houses on fire. Just think of the double insurance from the house AND the life insurance policy! Loosening the lug nuts on your tires. Never hike with a narcissist around cliffs. They will shove you to your death, and who would know differently?

These sick people are cold and calculating and will end you without remorse. There are no statistics kept, but trust me, it absolutely does happen.

I suffered a sudden aortic dissection (worse than a heart attack) and as I called out for an ambulance, she looked at her phone on the end table…and looked away. Crossed her arms and settled in to watch me die.

Murderer.

No evidence. Crocodile tears, insurance money, new boyfriend, jackpot. These stories don't get reported. Falls, drownings, car crashes, “random" shooting, car jack “slipping"…you get the idea.

My daughter by chance stopped by the house and called an ambulance or I would not be telling you this story. The murderous narcissist would be just another poor widow who tragically lost her husband in a sudden cardiac event. Poor her.

Yes, they are deadly dangerous. Malignant narcissists are now classified as psychopaths by the psychiatric community and for good reason.

I barely escaped. You don't hear the stories of the ones who didn't.

Because they are dead.

Dangerous enough for you? Run for your life while you still can.

A moment of silence now, for those victims who did not escape.

Their stories are not told.
_________________________________

Malignant Narcissists are very dangerous. Malignant Narcissists can be very destructive and abusive, because they seek to dominate others, and enjoy the damage they inflict on their victims.

Interactions with them are likely to be extremely unhealthy, dangerous, and harmful. Their (Jekyll & Hyde) is beyond comprehensible, and these energy vampires are always on the edge. They are a slight existence away from their half siblings the psychopaths.

Most psychologists concluded that the malignant type is the personification of evil.

Malignant narcissists are considered to be associated with sadism, a sadist. They get pleasure from seeing pain in others and by finding joy or amusement in creating chaos, and confusion. Malignant narcissists tend to display some of the worst traits of NPD, and they often have severe dysfunction in their personal relationships.

Experts consider the malignant narcissist to be the most toxic, dangerous, and traumatic of all NPD subtypes. They have a tendency for destruction and will stop at nothing to pursue their own self-interests even if it means traumatically hurting someone. Which explains their lack of empathy that allows them to hurt others, and not feel anything at all.

Malignant Narcissists are extremely dangerous, cold-hearted, and the epitome of evil. Unfortunately, there's no road map to completely understand these troubled souls. They habitually live and exists by hurting and taking advantage of others physically, mentally, emotionally, spiritually, psychologically, or financially, without an ounce of remorse or accountability. Dangerous is an understatement, evil fits the description best! They should be placed on the world’s most dangerous people list!



48
The Round Table / Re: Tales From The Narc Side
« Last post by tellomon on April 29, 2024, 08:12:14 AM »
Do narcissists ever lose anything?

Well I must say… a narcissist is the one who loses everything in their life. They are so cursed that they can't even value what they are gifted with. Great friends, huge money, a dream life, great partner, everything they just lose because of not valuing them; because  of being so self centered.

I feel pity on them, but they are doomed to have this destiny to rotate in a circle of getting more and more. They are never satisfied with anything that God has given them.

I think God intentionally gives them everything in their life, whatever they manifest they achieve, so that one day… they fall from the peak of success so bad, that they can't even stand again.

A life of a narcissist is a living hell.
_____________________________________

YES, Heavens YES! They lost THE single most important thing any human being can possibly ever lose. They lost their soul and that’s not metaphor!

It’s not some religious dogma or airy fairy bullshit. They literally have ZERO sense of self. Their world is as if they’re trapped inside of a mirror, everything is backwards, nothing makes sense. It’s literally like their human soul was ripped out of their body and replaced with a vindictive reflection, the nightmare being from the far side of the mirror. Alice in Wonderland, Through the Looking Glass; The Twilight Zone.

For them, these are VERY real places, and the real world is the fairy land. Every time they’re alone it’s like a black hole is swallowing them and they RUN so far and so fast yet it’s always faster and they’re just so tired. The ONLY way to get a momentary reprieve is when they’re around other people.

They seem selfish but they have no self at all. They seem confident but all they have is The Void. Everything they have and are..... is a lie. Everything they have they will destroy from jealousy because the other person can have real emotions, real happiness. You have NO idea what a precious thing they lost and they can never recover it.
_______________________________________

Yes they do and if you are lucky you will even find out, or God might let you watch. See, there is nothing that a narcissist fears more than being alone, or worse, growing old.

Yes the love bombing, the lies and all that will drastically catch up to them when that clock starts to tick they will eventually be too old for anything that actually fueled their narcissism. So if you think they don’t have their share of loss, grief and pain... think again.

If you ever took a good look at any narc and thought to yourself "Can they truly be happy?" They stay with that narcissistic behavior and not once they noticed they lost a good relationship over those exaggerated tendencies of cheating and ruining their past relationships; oh think again!

They can’t feel a thing.

That’s exactly how the end will reach out to them, except reality will still be reality. They will miss the person that was in their life and not with emotions, just all the things the person did for them. They might not be able to express themselves since they lack emotions yet nothing goes unpunished.

Call it Destiny or Karma. Call it whatever you want. Yeah, that will catch up to them.


49
The Round Table / Re: Tales From The Narc Side
« Last post by tellomon on April 29, 2024, 07:40:10 AM »
Is it common for a
narcissist to act immature?

Ron Culley
Well…YEAH!
Its common knowledge. Everybody knows.

We read Quora!
____________________________________

Yes, narcissistic people can, and often are emotionally immature. Some people have compared them to the Eternal Youth Archetype which Jung wrote about, or Peter Pan, The Prince or Princess, The Golden Boy, etc. Freud’s mom, by the way, called him “ My Golden Ziggy,” oy.

Narcissism is an early developmental stage for human beings, when the infant and young child thinks the world revolves around them, like the earth revolving around the sun. That’s normal, healthy for the child to expect this.

When the response to this normal need is frustrated or ignored the consequence is to be traumatized and fixated at this place, with subsequent development halted. The self may be then filled with holes like a piece of swiss cheese. The individual still maintains the craving for a good fill of what wasn’t supplied, and this is the case seen in pathological narcissism, when the infant-child was habitually insulted within the mirroring pole of the Self.

We all know what it is like to be with someone “who acts just like a child, “ whose personality seems child like. This is often associated with narcissistic wounding in childhood, and the adult continues to look for narcissistic supplies from others, sometimes even their own children, without ever really feeling they are getting a satiated, and coupled with a hyper sensitivity to insults (narcissistic wounding)

The result is an adult who acts easily hurt, has difficulty with reciprocal responsibilities, not having empathy and being able to see things from the other’s point of view, and an overall fragile sense of Self that is either overblown and realistic, or demoralized and deadened.

From their subjective experience, when others don’t meet their demands, they conclude the lack of responsiveness is evidence of their unworthiness, not being good enough to secure what they still hunger for and need (i.e., interest, attention, affective mirroring, concern and love).

Yes, narcissism and immaturity are kissin’ cousins.
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Absolutely! It’s been said they are emotionally between the ages of 3 to 6.

In my experience (Covert Narc) he would throw tantrums, or pout and sulk like a child if he didn’t get his way. At the time I didn’t know about narcissism and knew he was a spoiled kid that was put on a pedestal (an oops baby born into a wealthy family with much older brothers and sisters to add to the little King scenario) and just thought he was so used to getting his way that he had to learn patience and fairness as an adult. While he aged, it never got better, and it’s SO hard to deal with.

It’s no longer cute and funny when a middle aged man says inappropriate comments to people in public, slams doors, or throws fits (and cell phones, glasses, etc.) because they want what they want and when THEY want it.

The best you can hope for is a teenager mentality with fun actions like just hanging up on you when you have a disagreement, and then not answering for hours or even days.

Or when they know they’ve been drinking all day and are drunk but don’t think the rules apply to them. You beg them not to drive and take their keys, but they have a hidden set and take off. Like a teenager they think they are invincible and don’t care about consequences or who they could hurt or kill.

They love phrases like “If you haven’t grown up by 50 - You don’t have to!” Ugh. I’m sure he used that line at 30, 40, and will at 60 and 70 or however long the universe is stuck with him.

It’s exhausting. Get out and stay away from these snakes!
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If a person has narcissistic personality disorder, they are, by definition, immature in many ways, especially psychologically and emotionally. That they will act immaturely is inevitable.

Immaturity is built into the original definition of “borderline,” which, at first, wasn’t limited to what is now known as “borderline personality disorder,” but encompassed a range between what one now here’s as “neurotypical,” and “psychotic” (having a psychosis causing severe difficulties to perceive reality sufficiently well to function in society). “Borderline” meant “I’m between,” hence not psychotic, able to function in society, but not normal (or “neurotypical”) either.

This “in between” range included the following area:

Fragmented sense of self
Skewed perception of reality
Immature defense mechanisms
Those with narcissistic personality disorder fall in this range, and “immature defense mechanisms” is one of the characteristics.

Narcissistic personality disorder is an arrested development caused by early childhood trauma in the above mentioned areas, and involving problems with

Splitting (people are “all good” or “all bad”)
Lack of object constancy
Inability to repair shame

These result in the symptoms of:

Exaggerated sense of entitlement
Lack of empathy
Exploitative behavior

All of these are immature. The little child thinks everything revolves around them, and can you imagine a three year old saying,”Why don’t you take a break Mommy? Taking care of me must be exhausting! You don’t need to take care of my needs right now. I’ll just wait a bit.”

A narcissist is like a three year old. They can’t wait. Their needs need to be taken care of right now. RIGHT NOW.

Your needs can wait, because they’re not important. There are as important to the narcissist as Mommy’s needs are to the three year old.

The list is endless in ways narcissists are immature.

Here are some examples:

A narcissist will brag about themselves. Most children learn this is socially unacceptable, and don’t brag, but a narcissist will go on and on.

In addition to learning not to brag, children learn not to talk about themselves all the time, but to bring others into the conversation. This is a trait older children learn if they’re well socializes, but certainly by the time one is a teenager one learns to listen to others, but narcissists have never learned to listen, because they don’t care about others, both of which is immature (both not listening and not caring).

Not only are narcissists immature by their bragging about themselves, by the things they brag about is also immature. They want to be admired for the shiny toys they have, not for their character.

As mentioned above, the defense mechanisms of narcissists are immature. The following are common:

Denial
Distortion
Rewriting history
Projection
Blame shifting
Gaslighting
Self justification
Word salad

Here are a couple of examples:
You bring to the narcissist’s attention something you don’t like. They respond,”Oh no! That wasn’t my intention. You misunderstood me!”

or

“So you’re saying X” where X has nothing to do with anything you said.

What you won’t hear is,”Oh, I see your point. That was unthoughtful of me.”

Narcissists get upset at the smallest things. For example, there a trash can which needs to be dumped in the garage can ten feet away. Rather than emptying the trash themselves, they throw a hissy fit.

Anyone who has lived with a narcissist could give a hundred examples like this.

The mindset of a narcissist is “It’s all about me.” (aka “Look at me! Aren’t I cute?”)

To summarize: Narcissists are immature to their core, because they’re thinking, never developed past a certain point, beyond that of a three year old. In certain areas (non emotional and non psychological) narcissists are like adults, but in the emotional and psychological realm, they’re extremely immature, which makes them extraordinarily difficult to understand, because you don’t expect adults to act like three year olds.

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The Round Table / Re: Tales From The Narc Side
« Last post by tellomon on April 29, 2024, 07:18:10 AM »
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