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21
The Round Table / Re: >**** ELKO SMASH ****<
« Last post by *CountessA* on April 01, 2019, 10:27:52 PM »
Australia's stance on firearm laws is very different... Different history, different perspective.

As I was re-reading some of my favourite Zane Grey novels, I mused upon the evident difference in law, historically speaking, between Australia and America. America had its wild west, where law hadn't yet come to certain states or areas, and where people would take justice into their own hands. Cattle rustling, mavericking - or going west and changing one's name while there to hide a more disreputable past... the gun was a practical symbol of backing up an accusation, and a lynching was a practical symbol of handing out summary justice to a rustler. Gunmen with their assiduously practised fast draw would come to be not only individuals, but symbols of something to be beaten by eager youths who thought that they could outdraw the gunman they'd tracked down to confront.

And when sheriffs were finally beginning to be appointed in wild west counties, it was against the background of men and women already being accustomed to justice self-service style.

America's laws began with British law, but because of America's early turning against England in its fight for independence, and its victory (with French help) ratified in the Treaty of Paris in 1782, there was a profound sense of deliberately establishing new law for America. The United States Declaration of Indepdence had already been adopted during the struggle against Great Britain, in 1776, so this is a Declaration agreed upon and established in a time when political and philosophical difference to that of Britain was at its highest. America's Constitution (est. 1787) flowered out of the drawing together of separate states with their own concerns, and the battle against Britain for independence.

Some historical background - Terra Australis, New Holland, Terra Australia (again), Australia!
Click to read:
In Australia, from the time of colonisation by Great Britain, there wasn't that fight for independence. Remember, Australia was first used for penal colonies, and it was seen as land to be appropriated by Great Britain in the wake of American independence and the subsequent loss of British territory. There weren't areas and states with their own very territorial perspectives. Originally the whole of Terra Australis was called New Holland, and then in 1788, after Cook sailed along the eastern coast of New Holland (aka Australia) and claimed it as British territory (calling it New Wales and then changing it to New South Wales), the British divided New Holland (Australia) up into two parts. There was the western territory which retained the name of New Holland, and the eastern territory newly dubbed New South Wales; the boundary was pretty much split down the middle of Australia. There was some confusion in name, because the whole of Australia was still called New Holland at this time... There was a proposal by Matthew Flinders to revert back to the "original name" of Terra Australis in 1804, and this was finally agreed upon by Britain in 1824. The boundary moved west to increase New South Wales' area in 1825 (and to pre-empt French settlement), while New Holland correspondingly shrank.

New Holland was renamed Western Australia 1832 (Swan River Colony).

With further settlement, New South Wales became progressively more divided up, and it wasn't until 1851 that we had Victoria officially become a colony distinct from the rest of New South Wales.

The colonies were six in number at the time of Federation in 1901 when the Commonwealth of Australia was proclaimed.


Australia's ties to the UK are still very real.  The colonies of Australia operated under British law, (Australian Courts Act 1828 (UK) demonstrates this) and Federation was based upon the Commonwealth of Australia Constitution Act 1900 (Imp) which came into effect, of course, in 1901. This Act was actually an Act of the UK Parliament.

Law in Australia is for the most part derived from English law. Federal law applies to all States and Territories, and if a State law is inconsistent with Federal law, Federal law preponderates.

The history of Australia has not required armed civilians to rise up against Britain; colonies were controlled by British regular troops - at first marines, then a special colonial unit, then infantry, engineer and artillery units. It wasn't until the 1850s that local forces were actively recruited and began forming colonial police forces, and about 20 years later (when the last British regiment left - there was a great need for more troops to fight in the Anglo-Maori wars), there was no choice BUT to have local forces. Admittedly local militia did form earlielr than that; I am reasonably sure that the earliest reference is in December 1788 when Lieutenant Philip King (stationed on Norfolk Island) was worried that the balance of power between his marines and the convicts on that small island settlement was dangerously inclined towards the convicts because they outnumbered the marines (who were only six in number).

Quote
Mr. Stephen Dunnavan Mid. of His Majesties Ship Sirius                      1   
Mr. Tho.s Jamieson, Surgeons first Mate of Do                1   
Mr. Jn.o Altree Assistant Surgeon    1
Roger Morley, Robert Webb, Tho.s Webb, Seamen belonging to D.o          3   
John Livingstone Carpenter late belonging to D.o    1   
Serjeant, Corporal, & Six private Marines      816 Free 
 
Male Convicts     29
Female convicts  17
                                                                     In all     62          Noo 2 Convicts
Children
— Philip Gidley King - official journal being a narrative of the preparation and equipment of the First Fleet and voyage to New South Wales, 1786 - December 1790; compiled 1790


So it made sense for Lt King to make use of the six free men and get them trained up in the use of muskets, ready to be added to the defence force.

Quote
Having Six Musquets,
besides the Marines
Arms, I judge it proper
to instruct all the Free
people on the Island
(being Six) In the use of
Fire arms In case of the
Marines being sick or
any other exigency
wherefore I gave orders
to the Serjeant &
Corporal of Marines to
exercise them regularly
every Saty Morning As
well as the Marines —
when the former are
tolerable expert, I mean
that they shall fire half a
dozen rounds once a
Month — which is
putting the Island In the
best state of defence in
my power —
— The Journal of Philip Gidley King, Lieutenant, R.N. 1787-1790


Another reason for free settlers being roped in in this fashion may have been due to the British troops being highly reluctant to perform what they thought of as "extra duties". They didn't seem to realise that upon landing in New Holland (Terra Australis), they were required to do far more than simple garrison duty. Here's a letter written in May 1788 by Governor Arthur Phillip to the Secretary of Colonies (Lord Sydney) about it:
 I have in my first letter had the honour of observing to Your Lordship the great want of proper persons to superintend the convicts. The officers who compose the detachment are not only few in number, but most of them have declined any interference with the convicts, except when they are employed for their own particular service. I requested soon after we landed that the officers would encourage such (people) they saw diligent, and point out for punishment such as they saw idle or straggling in the woods. This was all I desired, but the officers did not understand any interference with the convicts was expected, and that they were not sent out to do more than the duty of soldiers. The consequence must be obvious to Your Lordship. Here are only convicts to attend to the convicts, and who in general fear to exert any authority, and very little labour is drawn from them in a country which requires the greatest exertions. In this declaration, I do not mean to include the Lieutenant-Governor. who has shown every attention that could be expected from him, and the Judge-Advocate, acting as a Justice of the Peace with a diligence which does him the greatest of credit, they are under as good order as our present situation permit.

The sitting as members of Criminal Courts is thought a hardship by the officers, and of which they say they were not informed before they left England. It is necessary to mention this circumstance to your Lordship, that officers coming out may know that a young colony requires something more from the officers than garrison duty.

The not having the power of immediately granting lands the officers likewise feel as a hardship. They say they shall be obliged to to make up their minds as to staying in the country or returning before they know what the bounty of Government intends them.

As it is, My Lord, impossible for the Commissary to attend to the issuing of provisions without some person of confidence to assist and to be charged with the details, I have appointed the person who was charged with the victualing of the convicts from England. There is, likewise, a person who acts as Provost-Marshall (the one appointed in England not having come out) and who likewise superintends the different works going on. Two people, who are farmers, and the clerk of the Sirius are employed cultivating ground and in the store, as likewise a smith that superintends the convict smith. As the granting of these people any land would at present draw their attention from the public service, I have promised that their situation should be represented to Your Lordship.


Ownership of firearms and access to them was controlled from the time when the first penal colonies were set up; obviously convicts had to be prevented from wielding firearms against the British troops and free settlers. Occasionally convicts in vulnerable locations were given firearms to defend themselves and the settlers to whom they were indentured, against aboriginal uprisings, but it's not surprising that the privilege was abused, as the following quotation, referring to an incident in 1790, demonstrates:

Quote
It having been found that the arms and ammunition which were entrusted to the convicts residing at the distant farms for their protection against the natives, were made a very different use of, an order was given recalling them, and prohibiting any convicts from going out with arms, except McIntire, Burn, and Randall, who were licensed game-killers.

— An Account of the English Colony of NSW Vol 1, by David Collins, Esquire. 1798


In the same work, Collins speaks of an accidental death by gunshot (in 1792), which illustrates that free men were using firearms for hunting at that time.

Quote
On Friday the 13th died Mr. David Burton, of a gunshot wound which he received on the preceding Saturday. This young man, on account of the talents he possessed as a botanist, and the services which he was capable of rendering in the surveying line, could be but ill spared in this settlement. His loss was occasioned by one of those accidents which too frequently happen to persons who are inexperienced in the use of fire-arms. Mr. Burton had been out with Ensign Beckwith, and some soldiers of the New South Wales corps, intending to kill ducks on the Nepean. With that sensation of the mind which is called presentiment he is said to have set out, having more than once observed, that he feared some accident would happen before his return; and he did not cease to be tormented with this unpleasant idea, until his gun, which he carried rather awkwardly, went off, and lodged its contents in the ground within a few inches of the feet of the person who immediately preceded him in the walk through the woods. Considering this as the accident which his mind foreboded, he went on afterwards perfectly freed from any apprehension. But he was deceived. Reaching the banks of the river, they found on its surface innumerable flocks of those fowl of which they were in search. Mr. Burton, in order to have a better view of them, got upon the stump of a tree, and, resting his hand upon the muzzle of his piece, raised himself by its assistance as high as he was able. The butt of the piece rested on the ground, which was thickly covered with long grass, shrubs, and weeds. No one saw the danger of such a situation in time to prevent what followed. By some motion of this unfortunate young man the piece went off, and the contents, entering at his wrist, forced their way up between the two bones of his right arm, which were much shattered, to the elbow. Mr. Beckwith, by a very happy presence of mind, applying bandages torn from a shirt, succeeded in stopping the vast effusion of blood which ensued, or his patient must soon have bled to death. This accident happened at five in the afternoon, and it was not till ten o'clock at night of the following day that Mr. Burton was brought into Parramatta. The consequence was, such a violent fever and inflammation had taken place that any attempt to save life by amputation would only have hastened his end. In the night of the 12th the mortification came on, and he died the following morning, leaving behind him, what he universally enjoyed while living, the esteem and respect of all who knew him.


The settlers were also expected to defend not only their own settlements/farms, but to give each other assistance, if under attack. This was not to be taken as freedom to shoot/kill aboriginals wantonly; anyone who could be proved to murder an aboriginal would be held accountable under the law for the act of murder. The 1796 excerpt below is also from Collins' Account.

Quote
The frequent attacks and depredations to which the settlers situated on the banks of the Hawkesbury, and other places, were exposed from the natives, called upon them, for the protection of their families, and the preservation of their crops, mutually to afford each other their assistance upon every occasion of alarm, by assembling without delay whenever any numerous bodies of natives were reported to be lurking about their grounds; but they seldom or never showed the smallest disposition to assist each other. Indolent and improvident even for their own safety and interest, they in general neglected the means by which either could be secured. This disposition being soon manifested to the governor, he thought it necessary to issue a public order, stating his expectations and directions, that all the people residing in the different districts of the settlemerits, whether the alarm was on their own farms, or on the farm of any other person, should upon such occasions immediately render to each other such assistance as each man if attacked would himself wish to receive; and he assured them, that if it should be hereafter proved, that any settlers or other persons withdrew or kept back their assistance from those who might be threatened, or who might be in danger of being attacked, they would be proceeded against as persons disobeying the rules and orders of the settlement. Such as had fire-arms were also positively enjoined not wantonly to fire at, or take the lives of any of the natives, as such an act would be considered a deliberate murder, and subject the offender to such punishment as (if proved) the law might direct to be inflicted.


In 1796, misuse of firearms was causing sufficient problems that it was thought necessary to regulate the possession of them. Non-military individuals who owned firearms were directed to register their firearms and get certificates signed by the commissary, permitting them to carry these arms. There were quite a number of men who didn't want their weapons to be registered.

Quote
Several attempts had been made by the commissary to ascertain the number of arms in the possession of individuals; it being feared, that, instead of their being properly distributed among the settlers for their protection, many were to be found in the hands of persons who used them in shooting, or in committing depredations. It was once more attempted to discover their number, by directing all persons (the military excepted) who were in possession of arms to bring them to the commissary's office, where, after registering them, they were to receive certificates signed by him, of their being permitted to carry such arms.

Some few settlers, who valued their arms as necessary to their defence against the natives and against thieves, hastened to the office for their certificate; but of between two and three hundred stands of arms which belonged to the crown not fifty were accounted for.


There were undoubtedly those who have bought guns in Australia without registering them. That continues to the present day, although several firearm amnesties have seen a good number of unregistered firearms handed in.

Australia's gun laws are regulated by each State or Territory, as at a Federal level the government doesn't have constitutional authority over gun ownership/firearms. However, in the wake of the Port Arthur massacre, which was the final straw in Australia in terms of there needing to be tighter control over who can own a gun, then Prime Minister John Howard convinced each state to adopt the proposals of the National Firearms Agreement - even Queensland, which had some very resistant MPs in the Liberal government, and even in the teeth of the powerful gun lobby in Australia.

To this day, the overwhelming majority of Australians are in agreement with current gun regulation, although a significant number would like the current laws to be tightened further.

The gun laws in Australia prevent a prohibited person from owning a gun. (Prohibited persons vary from state to state, but in general anyone convicted of terrorism, violence/assaults, robbery, sexual offences, etc., would be a prohibited person.) A gun-owner must have a firearm licence; to be issued a firearm licence, the person must have a genuine reason (other than self-defence) for holding the licence. Firearms are required to be registered to their licenced owner. Firearms are required to be properly secured/stored. There are tighter prohibitions for semi-automatic and fully automatic weapons. There are some contentions state by state, in particular in terms of minors using guns... and no doubt gun control in Australia is still developing. Full compliance with the National Firearms Agreement hasn't been reached in ANY state, but it's an ongoing process.
22
The Round Table / Re: The Tello Files. (All things strange, witnessed, verifyable and/or credible (?)
« Last post by tellomon on March 31, 2019, 06:16:55 PM »
So, what do they do?

About This Group
Description
Phelan Lowdown is the group who keeps it real. We are up for intense, but respectful, conversation. Respectful being key. Pretty much no subject is off limits.... with the exception of national politics...but if admin cuts it off...it's for a reason. We have a low tolerance for drama, and don't be an anatomical conundrum when you post, I delete those, and you, pretty fast for it.  If someone has done you wrong, feel free to discuss it here, but know there is a difference between being done wrong...and being butthurt. :)

In this day and age with bullying (cyber or otherwise) being so prevalent, any personal attack against another person/admin/moderator will be grounds for either being muted or kicked out, it will be at the admin or moderator's discretion. This includes complaint posts about this group on any other group. We are adults in this group, act like it.

Watch your language. There are certain words that aren't tolerated. Racial slurs and the "c" word are not necessary. I shouldn't have had to add this. :tello: yes you are!

We prefer no for sale stuff...since there is a proliferation of groups for such things already. The largest for the area being Wrightwood Garage Sale group. If you are a local business you are welcome to advertise once a week and I would prefer if you just bumped your ad instead of making a new one, if that's possible.

While we always allow lost/found pets to be posted. If you are rehoming an animal you MUST get prior approval from admin before posting. Any post made without admin approval will be removed. You can rehome for up to $75 if not vetted, up to $150 if they are (fixed and shot record). Any animals being posted that are more than this amount, you must get approval from admin. All animals must be 8 weeks or older. Any pet adopted it's adopter beware. Do your own homework, any issues are not this group's responsibility. Any harassment of people posting animals will be removed and you muted. Do not post looking for a stud/Irma Grese for your own backyard breeding.

Any type of fundraising or gofundme must be approved by admin first.

If you take issue with how this group is run, feel free to unjoin. Posting to the group complaining about it will result in you being removed. I have PMs, say something there. NOTE: swearing at me and calling me names won't get you very far, be warmed.

Any questions, please feel free to PM me...julietteowle   

Group Type
Neighbors
Members · 6,398

   :tello:  Not the group for me!
23
The Round Table / Re: The Tello Files. (All things strange, witnessed, verifyable and/or credible (?)
« Last post by tellomon on March 31, 2019, 02:31:09 PM »
https://www.facebook.com/watchparty/401895590591655/?entry_source=NOTIFICATIONS&hash=ASvRevgV2rbZCrKdL885ke2_gYfDNlEz0VnagZWJAOhA-A&notif_id=1554005151918871&notif_t=watch_party_started_implicit

Ron Tello Culley Forget pioneering double-bass; remember Ginger Baker!

Alyson Rowe Classic! Unbelievable energy

Ron Tello Culley Oh, to be young again, I'd plant trees in front of Gazzari's.

Ron Tello Culley If 6 were 9, it would equal Cream.

Forrest George Hey now baby, get into my big black car
Hey now baby, get into my big black car
I wanna just show you what my politics are.

I'm a political man and I practice what I preach
I'm a political man and I practice what I preach
So don't deny me baby, not while you're in my reach.

I support the left, tho' I'm leanin', leanin' to the right
I support the left, tho' I'm leanin' to the right
But I'm just not there when it's coming to a fight.

Hey now baby, get into my big black car
Hey now baby, get into my big black car
I wanna just show you what my politics are.

[Goodbye Cream:]

Hey, hey now baby, get into my big black car
Hey now baby, get into my big black car
I wanna just show you what my politics are.

I support the left, tho' I'm leanin'to the right
I support the left, tho' I'm leanin' to the right
But I'm just not there when, when it's coming to a fight.

Political man and I practice what I preach
Political man and I practice what I preach
But I'm just not there, when you're in my reach.

Hey now baby, get into my big black car
Hey now baby, get into my big black car
I wanna just show you what my politics are.

Hey, hey, hey
I wanna just show you what my politics are.

Ron Tello Culley Hey Forrest post the lyrics to "Toad". lol

Tyrone McDonald Gives me the chills

Jim O'Connor Screw it, I can’t go to bed now

Ron Tello Culley Light 'em if yA GOT 'EM!

Taffy Steinfeld Berger Excellent! Thanx Forrest!??

Ron Tello Culley Cheers Mates!
24
The Round Table / Re: The Tello Files. (All things strange, witnessed, verifyable and/or credible (?)
« Last post by tellomon on March 31, 2019, 12:53:22 PM »
Youth suicides on the rise in Elko County
TONI R. MILANO tmilano@elkodaily.com  Mar 29, 2019  0

Suicide. The word resonates deeply throughout any community.

For some, it is a painful reminder of the loss of a loved one. For others, it is a category of death that concerns first responders, social workers and lawmakers who are seeking to prevent more deaths.

The reaction to suicide is complex. Those who are touched by the death of a loved one or a friend look for answers for the rise in suicides, especially in Elko County. In recent years the number has skyrocketed, evidenced by more calls to the Elko Interagency Dispatch Center and the county coroner.

According to dispatcher Colleen Piacitelli, the amount of suicide calls in Elko County is rising. In 2018, dispatch received 464 calls regarding threats of suicide, attempts at suicide, or deaths by suicide. Within the first two months of 2019, dispatch has taken 73 calls. Four of them resulted in death determined by suicide.

As the numbers increase, so do the studies that point to a suicide crisis among youth, with Nevada ranking 11th in the nation, according to 2017 data released this month by the American Association of Suicidology. The group reported that “suicide is the second leading cause of death among Nevada youth aged 10-24 years old.”

Elko County chief deputy coroner Nick Czegledi reported in 2018 there were 15 deaths resulting from suicide. In 2017, there were 19. But it’s the age of the victims that is disturbing to him.

“Between 16 and 30 years old is a high zone,” said Czegledi.

He explained that suicides among elderly adults are often due to illness, while those in their 40s or 50s can be a result of psychological trauma such as the loss of a spouse.

“The younger ones seem to be more preventable,” Czegledi said.

Last year, eight suicides in Elko County were between the ages of 16 and 33 years old.

Youth suicides on the rise

Testifying before the Nevada Legislature’s Committee of Education on March 7 in Carson City, Piacitelli said she has taken calls from children as young as 6 years old threatening suicide.

“With insanely increasing numbers, I ask myself, ‘Why do we have our children and young adults turning to suicide?’” Piacitelli said.

The answers might be revealed when a teen hits his or her crisis point, according to Larry Robb, social worker coordinator for the Elko County School District. He opens his office at Elko High School to any student who needs to visit for five minutes or longer, and he and his staff have handled many suicide threats.

“At the time of ‘crisis’ the student does not always articulate a reason,” Robb said. Sometimes it is one or a mix of several factors, he said, including feelings of isolation from peers and/or family; conflicts among them; and a feeling of inability to cope with life’s challenges.

Piacitelli agreed with Robb, adding that “there isn’t one answer. One person’s breaking point is going to be different from another.”

However, one of the top factors seems to be social media posts, Robb said. “Youth have access to many apps that may be used for bullying, blackmail and gossip.”

The school district said about 15 to 20 students reported instances of self-harm through the online reporting system SafeVoice within the past year. The district has seen about one to two suicides per year, but could not provide an exact number “because of lack of reporting,” said Superintendent Todd Pehrson.

Statewide, SafeVoice received 7,383 tips in connection with suicide last year.

Prevention through education

Before a child reaches their school campus, the warning signs are already present, says Lynette Vega, a teacher and suicide prevention awareness advocate.

Sitting at her desk at the Elko Institute of Academic Achievement, Vega remembered how her life changed from a phone call in early 2008 informing her of her 23-year-old daughter’s death.

Rachelle Sloan was living in South Carolina at the time, and was serving in the Air Force. She had returned from a tour of duty in Iraq and had been hospitalized after one suicide attempt two months before she took her life.

“I thought she was getting the help she needed,” Vega said. “This is the one big reason why I’m an advocate for suicide prevention. I wasn’t educated.”

Today, Vega leads a local support group and recently started Zero Suicides Elko County, a nonprofit that will aim to educate the community about how to spot warning signs and talk to someone contemplating suicide.

One lesson learned was that “parents need to take it serious when kids come to them and admit their thoughts to them,” Vega said, adding that parents must also be aware of their child’s changes in habits and outlook on life.

“Sadness and depression are two different things,” said Vega, who teaches life skills at EIAA. Someone can be sad for not getting the thing they want, whereas someone with depression has difficulty getting out of bed and stops engaging with society.

Educating someone with depression to ask for help is vital, Vega said. “Like I tell the kids; they are their biggest advocate when they don’t feel right …. Go to someone who can help, but you don’t give up.”

Her desire to get the word out about resources and warning signs of suicide led Vega to approach Assemblyman John Ellison to sponsor Assembly Bill 114, which aims to enforce a previous law, NRS 389.021, to teach suicide prevention to fifth through 12th grade students.

Speaking before the Legislature’s Committee on Education March 7, Ellison was joined by Vega and Piacitelli. Ellison explained that although it is an unfunded mandate, he appealed to the committee to enforce the statute.

“I’m not asking to put debt on anyone, but to follow some of the laws that are out there on the books,” he said.

The seven-letter word

Starting the conversation about suicide early is necessary to address mental health issues and remove fear from the topic, said Vega a week before testifying in Carson City.

“Parents are worried about the stigma,” she said. “[They] are discriminated. The family is looked at like they have something wrong with them.”

It also includes having the right words to get to an individual’s heart who is in the midst of a crisis. One such program, safeTalk alertness training, has proven beneficial for at least one school administrator who was immediately faced with a student who stated he wanted to end his life, Vega said.

“Up until that day, he had no idea what to say and no idea what to talk about. The training was very helpful for him,” Vega said.

Tackling the subject of mental health head-on by having parents and counselors join forces is necessary to fight the problem and save lives, said Robb.

“Stigma surrounding accessing mental health resources needs to change,” he said. “Thoughts and feelings towards suicide prevention need to change as well.”

No age limit

Suicides are most prevalent among adults between the ages of 45 and 65 whose age group ranks first in data from 2017, according to the American Association of Suicidology. But the prevalence among teens and young adults has risen much faster in recent years.

Vega admitted that in the years after her daughter’s death, she endured a deep depression that gave her another perspective into what the crisis looks like from the inside.

“I went through my ordeal,” Vega said. “Nobody noticed or said anything to me. You can look normal, even if you aren’t doing well.”

“I had to go to a grief counselor,” she remembered. “I couldn’t do this anymore by myself. I had to reach out.”

Coming out of that experience, Vega said it has made her fearless when she notices something is off about a friend or co-worker.

“If I see something going on, I will approach them. I’m not afraid to ask. You can’t be afraid to ask,” Vega said.

The darkness doesn’t last

The uncertainty of how to handle challenges and the burdens of life weighs heavily on today’s youth, said Robb.

“Students report lack of church attendance, aloneness, loneliness, taking on too many roles, such as having to care for younger siblings, or working,” as some other reasons teens contemplate suicide.

Piacitelli hears similar reasons.

“The one factor I hear and see most [are people] coping with everyday life, whether it is school, family or friends,” she told the Legislature. “Our young people are missing this key ingredient to surviving their current moment and thriving into adulthood.”

So how can someone survive the moment of crisis? According to Vega, it comes down to education about the bigger picture and the fact that the pain will not last, which are lessons learned from her daughter’s death.

“I carry the guilt with me that I didn’t learn about suicide prevention until after her death,” Vega told the committee. “She didn’t want to die; she only wanted her pain to end.”

Today, Vega teaches her students to keep in mind a couple of simple truths for when the hard times hit and the pain may seem unbearable. One is that suicide is a permanent solution to a temporary problem.

The other is, “life is always changing. Hang in there for another day.”


:tello:  "what a load. Anybody can see that your town is insane!"
25
The Round Table / Re: The Rise and Fall of Tello; a brief history and tales of wow and dread
« Last post by tellomon on March 31, 2019, 12:36:27 PM »
remit[verb, noun ri-mit; noun ree-mit]

verb (used with object), re·mit·ted, re·mit·ting.
to transmit or send (money, a check, etc.) to a person or place, usually in payment.
to refrain from inflicting or enforcing, as a punishment, sentence, etc.
verb (used without object), re·mit·ted, re·mit·ting.
to transmit money, a check, etc., as in payment.
to abate for a time or at intervals, as a fever.

noun
Law . a transfer of the record of an action from one tribunal to another, particularly from an appellate court to the court of original jurisdiction.
something remitted, as for further deliberation or action.
the act of remitting.
Chiefly British . the area of authority of a person or group.

Seriously, this dialog has issues.
Step it up, please...    :monalisa:
26
The Round Table / Re: The Tello Files. (All things strange, witnessed, verifyable and/or credible (?)
« Last post by tellomon on March 26, 2019, 01:12:53 PM »



John Shepherd
March 20 at 6:01 PM · Hugo, OK

One of the protests

Image may contain: one or more people, crowd and outdoor
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Beverly Ashworth On Peck Rd??

John Shepherd Yes

Beverly Ashworth Thanks. It was a long time go, but not a good time.
Beverly Ashworth Thanks! I had forgotten all about that place.

Elaine Susan Rose Greg Carter Peck & McGirk

Lynn Gramer Yes

Debra Hooper Lopez Peck and McGirk

Celene Wolf Wow I haven't thought about that place in a hundred years but memories just came flooding back

Bernie Alvarez Well, I hope someone is going to tell the story behind this photo for those of us who don't know.

Bernie Alvarez Thank you for the info, but that's pretty obvious. Where is the story... Descriptions of the news media coverage, etc? What about the response from the community - and a description of the protests? Or more importantly, what are your memories of it? Th…See More

Lisa Stover I remember being afraid to walk by it

Ron Tello Culley This story is covered up as much as Steven Parent..it doesn't get much press. Something hinkey with the Press we can agree.

Zoe Hazel Richter I use to go by here all the time going to "funky and damn near new" levi place

Marina Velarde Jackson WOW I REMEMBER THIS..I GREW UP THERE N ALWAYS WONDERED WHO LIVES THERE N WHY THEY GET TO DISPLAY THAT? 👀

Ron Groves 4375 Peck Road there From 1966 to 76

Greg Carter  They were there that long?

Bonnie Huff Derrick And here we are again 50 years later

LM Raiders Salcedo Are u in the pic?

Bonnie Huff Derrick no, I graduated in '62 and was married in '64...left El Monte in '64....

Tami Lehman So sad that it is part of our history 😪

Steven Anthony Alonzo Lived around the corner from this house, me and the boys threw a lot of eggs those days.

Lorraine Gomez Here is a link to an LA Times article that covers the story.
https://www.latimes.com/.../la-me-fw-archives-protest-at...

From the Archives: A protest at Nazi headquarters in El Monte
LATIMES.COM

Bernie Alvarez Thank you! 😃

Greg Carter Lorraine Gomez
Thanks for the link!

Lorraine Gomez You’re welcome


Daniel Garcia I remember that Nazi house we should throw eggs at them there be a Nazi at the front door and we drive by and throw eggs lot of fun and they had a protest in the Hell's Angels were there and they got their ass kicked that's when they disappeared in the house was gone

Greg Carter
You're talking about the 3rd Riot to get them out I believe!

Daniel Garcia  i really know i was 13 or 14 but it was fun throwin g eggs at them lol good times

Ernestine Lussow I was to young to understand this stuff , but yes they didn't need to be in El Monte California 🇺🇸
Just one bad memories of El Monte 🌹🌹🌹

Robert L. Jordan Ray Jordan Hombre, this is what we were talking about not long ago. I remember them parading on the sidewalks in El Monte, or on Valley Blvd near our house.

David Ewing You know, I am getting a little tired of people posting this damn place, growing up a small Jewish boy in el monte back then was with this place down he street was pretty scary as a kid. It is part of our history, I get it, but it is starting to bring back some of the bullshit feelings from back then. I guess I will never understand how they were allowed to exist in an otherwise pretty cool family town!!

Dolly Perdue It was on Peck Road, people came together to get this out of the neighborhood!

Lisa Gonzalez This was interesting

Mike McNally I remember it well, glad when it was gone. I remember the leader was killed right in front of the place, no great loss there.

Esther Suzee Williams Mike McNally The leader went to EMHS and played the base drum in the band. I understand he tried to recruit many of the guys into the party.

Mike McNally Esther Suzee Williams I remember that,

Greg Carter Mike McNally
He was killed (shot,) by his second in comand,
Then the house caught fire!

Mike McNally Greg Carter. I remember that, best thing that ever happened.

Roger Luera I remember, we had some problems with them idiot's. 😎

BrChristopher Sale I remember throwing eggs at them.

Ozzie Morales where was this at?

Mike McNally It was on Peck Road on the 3700 block. The house was eventually destroyed after the leader was killed in front of the house. Good riddens. We used to throw eggs at them all the time when they were out side.

Ozzie Morales WOW...lived most of my life in el monte and never knew this...history is awesome..

Greg Carter Ozzie Morales
It's good to know the History so as not to repeat it!

Felice Popick Durazo Durazo’s was across the street from it and that was the day we sold more eggs than we ever did.

Christy Truman I remember that house!

Efren Castro White trash lol

Eddie Durazo My Mom Vera Durazo,

Eddie Durazo My Mom Vera Durazo made sure she bought extra eggs and she always sold out.

John Shepherd Durazos was the best.I loved the green chili burrito

Eddie Durazo John Shepherd thank you John,we sold a ton of them.

John Shepherd My brother bought a couple dozen in the mid nineties and packed them in a ice chest with dry ice and brought them back to texas

Eddie Durazo John Shepherd awesome.

John Shepherd I live in Oklahoma so I went to visit and he only gave me a half of one lol thats it

Felice Popick Durazo John Shepherd
And I was the one who made them for him.

John Shepherd Felice Popick Durazo you remember that?

Felice Popick Durazo John Shepherd
I always waited on him.

John Shepherd I went in there more than he did I had red curly hair


Michele Centers I worked at the Dry Cleaner down the street from there. Merrill’s Cleaners. Really disliked driving by that house.

Rene Heller It was part of the El Monte History.... Saw it Daily....

John Shepherd I've been inside their they showed me all the guns and said that I was pure arian because of my red hair and light skin but I didnt buy into all that hate

Rene Heller Ha Ha, We just Ran past the place..

John Shepherd They would have loved you lol Funny thing is i dont remember any of them being blonde or red headed

Rene Heller That is why we Ran.... And I am German, Did not want to be Kidnapped....

John Shepherd Yep

Terry Wilson That was the Nazi house they used to have demonstrations people wood come out protesting against them most of us didn't know what it was all about but I,ve seen Black Panther marches there, one time there was a March I saw 1 of the Nazis reach out …See More

Greg Carter Terry Wilson
Durazos

Terry Wilson But I remember the rainbow in and the Kit Kat Lounge. I remember the saucers at Lambert Park

Greg Carter Terry Wilson do you remember Smitty's bar?
Shared the corner of Peck and Lower Azusa in front of A&W!

Terry Wilson Greg Carter I remember A&W but I don't remember the bar

John Shepherd Smittys was great

John Shepherd When I was a kid i would stop by Smittys on Halloween and they would give me change then over to A&W and get a free root beer and fries it was great

Greg Carter John Shepherd
Smitty's they had a bucket of rocks by the door to throw at the kids that tried to look in!

John Shepherd They always through money on Halloween

Terry Wilson I had a tab at Andy's Liquor

Ron Tello Culley Wait! I'll see your Smitty's and raise ya by an Andy's Hardware.
27
The Round Table / Re: >**** ELKO SMASH ****<
« Last post by tellomon on March 26, 2019, 09:55:13 AM »
Nevermind that.
Check this out!

:tello:  "The hypocracy is glaring!"
So they like guns, but not if we use them wisely???


Do we stand up now ... or ... when they come to get the guns?

ELKO — A standing-room-only crowd clapped and cheered for Elko County Sheriff Aitor Narvaiza when he walked in before the start of the Elko County commissioners’ meeting Wednesday afternoon. The main item on the commissioners’ agenda was the discussion of a resolution to declare Elko County a Second Amendment sanctuary county, and around 200 people came out to show their support for their Second Amendment rights.

Twelve people got up to speak during the public comment session, and there were many expressions of assent as people talked. When the commissioners unanimously passed the resolution, people jumped to their feet in a standing ovation.

On Feb. 15 Nevada Governor Steve Sisolak signed Senate Bill 143, which has requirements for background checks for gun purchasers. After learning about this bill, Narvaiza thought that Elko County should follow the lead of other counties around the country protesting what they see as state laws which infringe on the Second Amendment.

Other rural counties in Nevada are also passing Second Amendment resolutions. Nevada Assemblyman Jim Wheeler joined Wednesday’s Elko County Commission meeting by phone and said that more than 500 people came out when the Douglas County commissioners passed their resolution March 14.

“It is my intention that Elko County sends a strong message to the people of Nevada,” Sheriff Narvaiza said at Tuesday’s meeting. “Listen to us and do not infringe on our Second Amendment rights.”

The resolutions being passed by counties around the country in support of gun rights take various approaches to opposing state gun laws. Some take a “send a message” approach, saying the county does not approve of the gun control laws being passed by the state, while some state that the county’s law enforcement officers will not enforce state laws deemed to be in violation of the Second Amendment.

The resolution which the Elko County commissioners approved Wednesday looks back through some of the history of the United States, and then concludes, “Now, therefore, be it resolved by the Elko County Board of Commissioners that Elko County is a Sanctuary County for the Second Amendment; and be it further resolved that this Board affirms its support of the duly elected Elko County Sheriff in the exercise of his sound discretion to not enforce any unconstitutional firearms laws against any citizen; and be it further resolved that this Board will not authorize or appropriate any funds or resources for the purpose of enforcing law that infringes on the constitutional right to keep and bear arms.”

“This support is overwhelming,” Commissioner Rex Steninger said to the crowd in his opening remarks at Wednesday’s meeting. “I’ve been on the commission for four years now, and I haven’t seen one thousandth of this interest.”

Steninger said that when he was sworn in as a county commissioner, he was sworn to defend and protect the constitution and the government. He said he commented at the time that sometimes the Constitution and the state government might not be on the same side of an issue.

“And this is a good example of that. We have to make a choice. Do we support the state government or the U.S. Constitution? It’s a pretty easy choice for me. I’m supporting the U.S. Constitution,” Steninger said to applause from the crowd.

“I think this background check is a lie,” Steninger continued. “Any sensible person doesn’t want a gun in a crazy person’s hands. And I think most of us would willingly submit to a background check if that’s what they really wanted. I think what they really want is to know who owns what gun.

“Registration is the first step to confiscation. History is littered with what happens when they take our guns away. I did a little research on this. One source estimated 56 million people were exterminated in the 20th century following gun registration and confiscation,” Steninger concluded.

“This effort to challenge this law, I don’t take this lightly,” Commissioner Demar Dahl said. “When we decide not to enforce that law, that’s an important decision. The way I made that decision was, we know what the goal is of those who want to pass this bill. At some point they want to take our guns. … They don’t just all of a sudden come out and confiscate guns. There are a lot of things that happen first, and this is one of them. And so, do we stand up now, or do we wait and stand up when they come to get the guns?”

Many people called out, “Now!”

“I love Elko County and the people that have got the courage to not let themselves be run over and stand up for the Constitution,” Dahl said.

“This isn’t the end of it,” Commissioner Cliff Eklund said. “This is just the start.”

He said there are at least two more bills being considered in the Nevada Assembly. One would restrict accessories to guns, and one is a “red flag” law which would allow guns to be confiscated based on people’s accusations, Eklund said.

Commissioner Delmo Andreozzi talked about an incident when he was young and someone tried to break into his family’s house, and he had a weapon to protect his family. Although he did not end up having to use the weapon, he said, “I shudder to think what would have happened that night had I not been armed.”

Elko County District Attorney Tyler Ingram said his responsibility is to provide a legal opinion on steps the commissioners take, and in this case his personal beliefs and his legal opinion aligned. Ingram read his statement on the resolution, saying, “The principles outlined in the Second Amendment Sanctuary County resolution are the same principles that every citizen, politician, and elected official should be prepared to protect and defend because those principles reiterate what is, and what always should be, protected by our United States Constitution and our Nevada Constitution. Any attempt to unlawfully infringe or violate our Constitutional rights should always be met with strong scrutiny. I am proud of the citizens of Elko County and the Board of Commissioners for voicing their opinions and taking a stance.”

Nevada Assemblyman John Ellison, along with Assemblyman Jim Wheeler and Randi Thompson of the Nevada Firearms Coalition, joined Tuesday’s meeting on the phone. Ellison talked about other “bad bills” which they are fighting in order to protect Second Amendment rights.

“We are with you 100 percent,” Ellison said. “We’re down here in the trenches, but we can’t do it alone.”

Wheeler said that SB 143 is “the camel’s nose under the tent.”

“We are mobilizing across our state to try to remind our governor that we are one Nevada in supporting our Constitution,” Thompson said.

“We’ve got to stand for something,” Elko City Councilman Chip Stone said at the start of the public comment session. “If we don’t, our rights and our privileges will be taken away.”

Dale Andrus recommended that people go to the Nevada legislative website and follow what is happening with the bills that are being considered.

“Sad to say, it looks like we’ve lost Nevada, but we’re not going to quit fighting,” he said.

Danielle Kohler said that on the legislative website you can put in the keyword “firearms” to keep up-to-date on relevant bills.

“I am so glad to see all these people here,” Kohler said. “This is so awesome. … But we’ve got to fight.”

“When the government wants to take away your firearms, they’re not doing it because they want to do something good for the populace,” Thomas Wolf said. “It never ends that way. It’s always something bad for the populace. Sheriff, I totally love you.”

“What’s the best way to eat an elephant?” Scott Allen asked. “One bite at a time – they’re taking away our rights.”

Former Elko County Sheriff Neil Harris said, “I’d like to take credit for what’s going on here, because I hired him,” referring to Sheriff Narvaiza.

“I want to thank you for standing up for our rights,” Gary Walker said to the Elko County commissioners at the close of the public comment period. “I want to remind Elko County and all Nevadans that Governor Bloomberg Sisolak will try to move against you guys for protecting us, so as a resident, remember, they’ve got our back, and we’ve got to have their back.”

“I’ve heard you guys say that it’s going to be hard for us,” Commissioner Eklund said. “But I think Gary pretty much sums it up. As long as you guys got our back, it ain’t going to be hard.”

Walker was referring to former New York Mayor Michael Bloomberg, a gun-control activist who has been supportive of Gov. Sisolak and the gun control efforts in the Nevada legislature.

In a statement released March 14, Sisolak said, “My office and that of the attorney general are aware of the letters from multiple rural Nevada sheriffs regarding SB 143. While the law will not take effect until January 2020, I look forward to working with Attorney General (Aaron) Ford and local law enforcement over the next several months to review ways to enforce this law, as is the case with all other Nevada laws that elected officers are sworn to uphold.”

https://elkodaily.com/news/local/govt-and-politics/do-we-stand-up-now-or-when-they-come-to/article_83f170d8-3183-50ba-9170-623bc2f949e6.html#utm_source=elkodaily.com&utm_campaign=%2Femail-updates%2Fdaily-headlines&utm_medium=WhatCounts&utm_content=E4A4812231D872A7E2C7EA84CAD06266D2824230
28
The Round Table / Re: >**** ELKO SMASH ****<
« Last post by *CountessA* on March 25, 2019, 02:18:01 AM »
I don't think ICIJ does what I think you think it does...
29
The Round Table / Re: >**** ELKO SMASH ****<
« Last post by tellomon on March 23, 2019, 03:54:33 PM »

The International Consortium of Investigative Journalists
126K people like this
Nonprofit Organization
7/27/17, 6:53 PM
Hello. I have (and live) a story that must be told. No one wants to deal with me after I mention "Elko County, Nevada". It's an unwritten taboo, so it seems.
It entails 200 years of unbridled corruption, and follows up to what they are doing to me now: I'm a Political Refugee of my own home...and I still pay the property taxes. MY evidentiary documents await professional exam and consideration. A cursory review can be had here:
http://www.ozroundtable.com/index.php?topic=7992.0
I'm a multi-million dollar Civil Lawsuit/deal looking to happen, plus Specific Performance. Talk with me!!!
>**** ELKO SMASH ****<
ozroundtable.com

Hi Ron ,

Thanks for messaging us. If you need more information, please feel free to email us: contact@icij.org

If you would like to leak to us please visit: https://www.icij.org/securedrop

Thanks again for your support!


8/15/17, 1:06 PM
I have sent you an email twice. Please review and respond. My story is important to be told as you will see when you follow the link. thank you!

Hi Ron ,

Thanks for messaging us. If you need more information, please feel free to email us: contact@icij.org

If you would like to leak to us please visit: https://www.icij.org/securedrop

Thanks again for your support!


I have sent you an email twice. Please review and respond. My story is important to be told as you will see when you follow the link. thank you!
Chat Conversation End
 :jandoor: :drama: :mobbing:
30
The Round Table / Re: The Tello Files. (All things strange, witnessed, verifyable and/or credible (?)
« Last post by tellomon on March 23, 2019, 01:34:14 PM »
yesssir ocifer...
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