Oz Round Table

The Oz Round Table boards => PayPal => Topic started by: surf-inside on June 13, 2010, 10:57:10 AM

Title: More wickedness in Ebay and Paypal
Post by: surf-inside on June 13, 2010, 10:57:10 AM
So I found another problem with Paypal and Ebay where neither of them seem to be talking to each other.... and a way for buyers to get one over on a seller in a big way.

I had a domestic USA buyer who purchased a box of iPods from me.  I shipped them with signature confirmation.  USPS lost the package.  Postal investigator called me yesterday to tell me they suspect a carrier and that most domestic USA packages that go missing are the ones with Signature Confirmation because postal workers here know those are most likely very valuable! Anyways...

Buyer initiated a dispute not in Paypal but in Ebay for "Item not Received" which automatically generated a "hold" on the funds in Paypal (but no dispute in paypal).

Ebay gives me 72 hours to resolve the matter.   In the Ebay resolution center it says "resolve this issue now to avoid being penalized by Ebay. If you do not refund the buyer we will make a decision within 72 hours and if we find against you, you will be held responsible. CLICK HERE TO REFUND BUYER USING PAYPAL"  So I click the button.

Which brings me to the Paypal API, where I log into Paypal through Ebay and refund the buyer.  I go back to the Ebay resolution center and it says the same thing, "Take Action now and refund the buyer to avoid being held responsible"

So I call Ebay and say hey man, whats up? I just refunded the buyer!  But it keeps prompting me to do it again.  They tell me, "oh, it takes about 24 hours or so for that to clear up, give it a day."  So I do...

Then, the following day I get an email from Ebay saying that they refunded the buyer and that I now owe them 850 bucks.  I call Ebay and escalate to the resolution center.  I tell them, Hey man, what the F*ck is going on? I already refunded the buyer through paypal!  and you guys just refunded him through Ebay and now I owe you 850 bucks!?"

Buyer gets a double refund, one from Paypal and one from Ebay.  And I get no FVF credit.

Ebay tells me, "we can't reverse the transaction."  Paypal tells me the same thing, "We can't reverse the transaction."  Then I get booted back over to an Ebay resolution center rep and he tells me "uhhhhhh... let me put you on hold for a second...." 

In the meantime, I'm now out $1700.  And the buyer is $850 richer.   Ebay will not reimburse me nor will Paypal.  I have to go after the buyer to try and get my half of the double refund back from him. It would seem that if they can take money from me to give to a buyer why can't they take money from a buyer and give it back to the seller?


Title: Re: More wickedness in Ebay and Paypal
Post by: surf-inside on June 13, 2010, 11:52:15 AM
I forgot to add, Ebay told me that it was the buyer who called Ebay to escalate the issue (once he saw that I had refunded him in Paypal.)  And so Ebay refunded him as well. 

Now that's what I call Buyer DOUBLE protection!
Title: Re: More wickedness in Ebay and Paypal
Post by: *Yibida* on June 13, 2010, 02:08:21 PM
If I were an enzyme, I'd be DNA helicase, so I could unzip your genes...

LOLOLOL @ Surf......
Title: Re: More wickedness in Ebay and Paypal
Post by: *Brum6y* on June 13, 2010, 03:06:33 PM
Surf, Here in Australia we have the Banking and Financial Services Ombudsman. It is a government office that takes on the big boys on behalf of the little guy.

In this case, an Aussie seller (after giving eBay and Paypal a chance to fix it up) would take it straight to the Ombudsman. In such a black-and-white situation as this, you'd get your funds back without a doubt.

I don't know what provisions you have in the US, but I'd be going for the jugular!!!

Just make sure you have tried to resolve it through eBay and Paypal first - and when they fail to do so (ok - call me a cynic)... go in for the kill.
Title: Re: More wickedness in Ebay and Paypal
Post by: surf-inside on June 13, 2010, 06:12:00 PM

Oh I have tried to resolve it with both of them.  But they both gave me the same excuse - neither of them can reverse the refund.  Ebay suggested that I run to the bank and put a stop payment on the paypal transaction.  They said they would reimburse me the $50 that my bank charges to stop payment.  But the payment has already gone through - how could they not know this? The two of these characters are in bed together. 

I wrote the buyer, who also happens to be a large ebay seller, and told him that I hoped he would send me back the second refund that he received.  I know that in the US, there are a large number of lawsuits against Paypal and Ebay.  But I don't know where or how to escalate this to anyone not associated with these two characters, who can help.


Title: Re: More wickedness in Ebay and Paypal
Post by: *Brum6y* on June 13, 2010, 07:55:00 PM
Surf, I have no doubt that you have tried to resolve the matter with eBay and Paypal. I make the statement for completeness of my point and to make it clear to others who read these threads... the legal systems expects people to try and resolve a problem with the parties involved - even if (as in the case of eBay and Paypal) you really don't expect them to do so.

In this situation, I can only hope that the buyer is a decent person, realises what has happened and does the right thing. If they have half an idea about eBay and Paypal, they may be a little cautious about returning the excess until they are comfortable they aren't going to lose the lot - but I would hope they come to the party.

If not - maybe start looking for some leads into the legal options.  Sorry I can't offer any suggestions on this.
Title: Re: More wickedness in Ebay and Paypal
Post by: Roo on June 14, 2010, 12:43:29 AM
Surf.....I'm pretty sure you have something similar to our Ombudsman out your way.

Do they call it the 'Better Business Bureau?...or something like that?
Title: Re: More wickedness in Ebay and Paypal
Post by: surf-inside on June 14, 2010, 01:56:35 PM
They do have a Better Business Bureau but its for complaints.  They can't assist me in getting my money back and I'm sure there are thousands of complaints against Paypal, Ebay, and there might be some against the buyer as well.  But, considering that the buyer called Ebay and escalated the dispute to obtain a refund from them AFTER he got a refund from me indicates that he knew what he was doing.  The smartest people are the ones who've been around the block and know how the system works.  This is one that I wasn't aware of. I didn't know you could go through Ebay and they would give a refund from their account even after you have refunded the buyer through paypal... and then force you to pay them (Ebay) back. 

I hope the buyer will return my money.  But the fact that he knew he arleady got the refund from paypal and then called Ebay and got one from them, makes me suspicious.  Smart guy, thats for sure.  That combined with the other switcheroo loss just may be the last nail in my coffin and I may call it quits on selling at the end of the month.  I'm having to sell personal assets now just to cover these losses.