Oz Round Table
The Oz Round Table boards => The Round Table => Topic started by: *CountessA* on February 08, 2010, 12:02:54 PM
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From a thread on the UK Round table:
before I went out tonight, I scheduled an item to start...[I use Auctiva}
Just come home to see No items For Sale on my ebay page!
Logged into auctiva to see....Error....ebay no longer accept bank transfers or cheques as payment methods!
Grrrr....they just want more and more dosh out of us by forcing paypoo on us!
The thread is here (http://forums.ebay.co.uk/thread.jspa?threadID=1100287779&tstart=0&mod=1265590787453).
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Doesn't surprise me in the least....BTW....you should let them know what ACCC translates to...they may have a consumer and competition commission over there too but under a different name. It's definitely anti-competitive conduct relative to competition in their EFT marketplace.....so there will be a similar body in the UK.
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It's "The Latest" in eBay's Cavalcade of Doom.
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OK I will get in first ;D
Where are the eBay defenders of this latest onslaught at money grabbing?
I want to see some logical justification from you so put on yout thinking caps and think hard .
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I find that amazing. That person had obviously not even been notified by Ebay of the change.
I hope the Poms can fight it in some way like was done here.
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retbags, they are always moving the goalposts, where they get you is subtitles, anything that moves extra and doubling it for all cats, rotters, no mention of the falling numbers of visitors i would say ebay is down around 75% on a year ago on unique visitors, thats the untold story ... why someone with deep pockets does not take them on is beyond me
buncho con artists
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OK I will get in first ;D
Where are the eBay defenders of this latest onslaught at money grabbing?
I want to see some logical justification from you so put on yout thinking caps and think hard .
I'm sure it's only the arrogance of a handful of posters here that stops this site reaching it's potential.
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I have yet to see any logical reasoning for the current onslaught, maybe there is none and it is in deed a blatant money grab.
Bazza are you confusing a need for a logical explanation with arrogance?
Perhaps you might like to enlighten me with your views.
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The thread looks like a storm in a teacup.
My comment was questioning the arrogance of 'I want to see some logical justification from you', prior to any contrary remark.
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Step right up ! ...Next !...LOL
(http://i691.photobucket.com/albums/vv277/area_51_bucket/13.gif)
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"Move along. There's nothing to see...."
(http://i146.photobucket.com/albums/r271/rontello/South%20Park/0000035798_20061116111134.jpg)
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(http://i691.photobucket.com/albums/vv277/area_51_bucket/conspiracy.jpg)
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(http://i691.photobucket.com/albums/vv277/area_51_bucket/thread_direction.gif)
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I just love this one !....LOL
(http://i691.photobucket.com/albums/vv277/area_51_bucket/zombiepeanuts.jpg)
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:offtopic: :hijack: :topic: :lmao:
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Hi Cent...long tome no type !.....LOL
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(http://www.polyvore.com/cgi/img-set?.out=jpg&id=9AWf7D0M3hGPsjOC-rtHPg&size=l)
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(http://i33.photobucket.com/albums/d51/babyangelgonbad/Disney/smee.jpg)
Hmmmmmmmmmmmm stick men ....
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LOL.....
(http://www.carldeaville.com/_/rsrc/1231050769403/stickmen/StickMenScan3Dec2008b_0002.jpg)
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Perhaps the site has reached it's potential.
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(http://i146.photobucket.com/albums/r271/rontello/ODD%20Stuff/voteyib-drummers.jpg)
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The thread looks like a storm in a teacup.
My comment was questioning the arrogance of 'I want to see some logical justification from you', prior to any contrary remark.
I would hardly call the indignation Poddy has expressed as arrogance. If nothing else, I interpret his statement as a challenge for any of the champions of eBay to step forward and give a rational explanation of the action being discussed.
That is, to be quite distinct from merely being expected to accept whatever unsubstantiated, illogical or improbable propaganda that is rolled out. I would envisage that will include any media releases that have greater credibility from their use of multi-syllabic terms, than the logic portrayed.
In short - asking that any response given makes sense.
I thought that quite a reasonable expectation.
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Perhaps the site has reached it's potential.
The only thing that's reached a potential around here is your comment Bazz... Poddy's thrown out the gauntlet ... I believe it's your turn to respond with an acceptable answer ... till you come up with anything I'll continue to entertain the audience... I'll mail you my bill for services rendered..
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Hello Brum6y. No it's pure arrogance. The message is 'don't bother posting here, if I don't approve of your response'
The likelyhood that Poddy is going to approve of any contrary remark equals nil. You know it, we all know it.
Shouldn't members here feel comfortable in posting comments that reflect what they think.......not what other members demand they think?
Why should anybody have to conform to another members rules rather than the site's rules to avoid pre-destined confrontation?
Maybe read the post again.
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(http://i691.photobucket.com/albums/vv277/area_51_bucket/sisko_facepalm.gif)
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Yibida, the thread is a non-event. There is no arguement.
'acceptable answer' to who?
There's your problem ..right there.
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The only problem I have at the moment Bazz is deciding what to make for lunch tomorrow... unless you can suggest a delicacy for me I'm off to ponder in my "100 lunches for special occasions " Book.........bbL...possibly...LOL
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(http://i146.photobucket.com/albums/r271/rontello/Thread%20Stuff/1225424200026.jpg)
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Hello Brum6y. No it's pure arrogance. The message is 'don't bother posting here, if I don't approve of your response'
The likelyhood that Poddy is going to approve of any contrary remark equals nil. You know it, we all know it.
Shouldn't members here feel comfortable in posting comments that reflect what they think.......not what other members demand they think?
Why should anybody have to conform to another members rules rather than the site's rules to avoid pre-destined confrontation?
Maybe read the post again.
I can say "No", too. But it doesn't make me right any more than it does you.
It is quite obvious that you are diverting attention away from the request to provide a logically supported response - which is a fundamental element of debate.
I have found that such an approach is derived from one or both of two motivators:
1. That the respondant has no logically supportable response and will make any and all efforts to undermine the proponent. **
2. That the respondant simply enoys being divisive.
An illustration from the movie "Thank you for Smoking"
Nick Naylor - A spokesman for the tobacco industry talking to his son, Joey....
Nick Naylor: That's the beauty of argument, if you argue correctly, you're never wrong.
Joey Naylor: ...so what happens when you're wrong?
Nick Naylor: Whoa, Joey I'm never wrong.
Joey Naylor: But you can't always be right...
Nick Naylor: Well, if it's your job to be right, then you're never wrong.
Joey Naylor: But what if you are wrong?
Nick Naylor: OK, let's say that you're defending chocolate, and I'm defending vanilla. Now if I were to say to you: 'Vanilla is the best flavour ice-cream', you'd say...
Joey Naylor: No, chocolate is.
Nick Naylor: Exactly, but you can't win that argument... so, I'll ask you: so you think chocolate is the end all and the all of ice-cream, do you?
Joey Naylor: It's the best ice-cream, I wouldn't order any other.
Nick Naylor: Oh! So it's all chocolate for you is it?
Joey Naylor: Yes, chocolate is all I need.
Nick Naylor: Well, I need more than chocolate, and for that matter I need more than vanilla. I believe that we need freedom. And choice when it comes to our ice-cream, and that Joey Naylor, that is the defintion of liberty.
Joey Naylor: But that's not what we're talking about
Nick Naylor: Ah! But that's what I'm talking about.
Joey Naylor: ...but you didn't prove that vanilla was the best...
Nick Naylor: I didn't have to. I proved that you're wrong, and if you're wrong I'm right.
Joey Naylor: But you still didn't convince me
Nick Naylor: It's that I'm not after you. I'm after them.
[points into the crowd]
Good night Nick.
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No brum6y, the only point I'm making is the arrogance of the post.
There is no arguement because the point is mute.
However, had the subject of the thread been a viable debating point, I would think that members should post their responses in the way they choose, not 'as directed'.
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My question was and still is to anyone who defends the action of eBay/PayPal/Aptiva in the case in question, is to come up with some logical reason why the fees should be paid using PayPal to the exclusion of all other methods.
It smacks of a blatant money grab once again.
Anyone who got the impression that I was after a preconceived answer which agrees with my own is mistaken.
There are few people who would have misinterpreted my request for a logical explanation as arrogance. I have already said that a request of some sort of logical explanation should not be confused with arrogance.
Quotation should contain all the content of the sentence being quoted and not just a part.
I notice that the issue was sidestepped and an attempt to steer the debate off course.
And seeing that you want to go down that path, be my guest.
Bazza you may post whatever you wish in any way that you wish.
'don't bother posting here, if I don't approve of your response'
I do not know why you get the above impression, why would anyone want my approval?
Why should anybody have to conform to another members rules rather than the site's rules to avoid pre-destined confrontation
I have asked no one to conform to ‘my rules’ that is a delusion.
I have seen no evidence of any ‘as directed’ responses so please enlighten me by pointing to them.
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*yawn*....I have to wonder about people who consistently post divisive and negative comments whenever a debate involving Ebay's unconscionable conduct arises.....never a factual statement in cooee...just venemous heckling.....devoid of any intellect..
Last time it was Phil you were bashing Bazza, now its Poddy, and on occasion myself and others.....What I see is that your attitude is the issue, I can't recall on one occasion that you have posted anything remotely friendly or even interesting.... other than the same old, same old..this site is doomed, this site has outlived it's purpose..yadda, yadda, yadda...
You even showed up on Australia day to spread your idea of community...lmao....that went down well huh?
I agree with brumby regarding your 'agenda' bazza...and it seems such a familiar approach after all.....bit like dejavu lmao...
1. That you have no logically supportable response and will make any and all efforts to undermine the proponent. **
2. That you simply enjoy being divisive.
You don't have to be a member here if you so despise the site and its members mate......membership is voluntary...nobody is keeping you here and clearly you have nothing positive to contribute......whenever you post it's always the same negative stuff...I suppose it's easy for people like you to point the finger, while contributing nothing but venom..... but Bazza, if you think you can do any better, feel free to open a site that suits your own rather negative and unfriendly standards....Let's see how many would flock to such a site to read all your pearls of wisdom......why not try it eh?...let's see how you go...then you can come back here and argue tangibly....
....we'll miss you of course Bazza....but we'll survive...lol
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Step right up ! ...Next !...LOL
(http://i691.photobucket.com/albums/vv277/area_51_bucket/13.gif)
YIB !!!!!....??????......pot, kettle black....lol....gif wobber !!!
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Gif stabber!
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The great Yib Gif Massacree.....
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(http://mdc.mo.gov/conmag/1997/05/images/intro13.jpg)....LOL
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why arent you at work litle green man ????
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I am at work smee, I was surprised I can see and post that hook piccy, funny... I still can't see anyone's avatars or other pic's tho ?... we have finger print scanning modules on our keyboards to be able to log in and they are also about to have some sort of USB recognition security system added so sensitive data cannot be removed from the mainframe.... do you think their Paranoid ?...
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Don't quit yer Yib job!
(http://i146.photobucket.com/albums/r271/rontello/ODD%20Stuff/Yib-a-rama.jpg)
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I am at work smee, I was surprised I can see and post that hook piccy, funny... I still can't see anyone's avatars or other pic's tho ?... we have finger print scanning modules on our keyboards to be able to log in and they are also about to have some sort of USB recognition security system added so sensitive data cannot be removed from the mainframe.... do you think their Paranoid ?...
There's rumors of rectum scanners in the near future....
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Nano-Butt Bots?
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Poddy, I'd suggest you go back and read the OP and the linked page. You clearly have no idea what the subject of the thread was. It seems logical justification would have been wasted.....at least until you realised your error.
Cupie, how about....I stay....and you go elsewhere if you don't like the way I post. Otherwise....feel free to ignore me.
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Bazza or whoever you really are & i think I know. I see no arrogance in any posts other than yours.
I support Cupie's comments at Reply #31. If you don't like the heat get out of the kitchen.
There are plenty of other web site forums and there is Twitter but, aren't you already there?
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(http://i146.photobucket.com/albums/r271/rontello/ODD%20Stuff/prozaccartoon.jpg)
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Cupie, how about....I stay....and you go elsewhere if you don't like the way I post.
Dream on ...who are you?....how often are you here?.....how much support do you give this site?.....when does friendly dawn on one such as you?.....so arrogant !!!!...lol....as usual...
Otherwise....feel free to ignore me
Bazza who?.....lmao :pmsl:
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Cupie, how about....I stay....and you go elsewhere if you don't like the way I post.
Dream on ...who are you?....how often are you here?.....how much support do you give this site?.....when does friendly dawn on one such as you?.....so arrogant !!!!...lol....as usual...
Otherwise....feel free to ignore me
Bazza who?.....lmao :pmsl:
Sir BAZZRIFF the third... lord of the String-less big girl panties ! .... place your bets the odd's are good !.....LOLOLOL
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:hunchback:
:roflmao:
:crazy: :crazy: :crazy:
Let's party......
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Bingo Yib.
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I motion we move the party to another thread..this one should stay serious....
(http://i691.photobucket.com/albums/vv277/area_51_bucket/funny_cat_pictures_14.jpg)
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Well....you know the game Yib...has to be in public..or it's just no fun ....lol
we're all still waiting for the pearls of wisdom explaining how this isn't the same thing happening in the UK, as happened here....
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Yib. I had to change my avatar. The one you made me with "me blasting away at the pesky ducks disappeared. I am most disturbed.
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Yib. I had to change my avatar. The one you made me with "me blasting away at the pesky ducks disappeared. I am most disturbed.
I had foreseen the future...here's another back up of a back up just in case this happened...I always have a contingency plan Ubbs !..........LOL
(http://i691.photobucket.com/albums/vv277/area_51_bucket/thpredator-duckhunt.gif)
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Thanks Yib. I have forgotten how to set it up though.
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Thank you, people - it's good that you're returning to the topic after a bit of a meander around on other topics.
The topic is of course an attempt to clarify what may be happening in the UK (on eBay) re cheques and bank transfers. It does seem that PayPal is being pushed at the expense of other payment methods.
I think it's worth while checking each eBay site to see how the various different sites handle the issue of allowed payment types. Did you know that in France, for instance, you can decline Paypal payments entirely, and ask only for bank transfer?
It's also interesting (but a topic for another thread, I think) that in Germany, France and the UK, anyone who is a BUSINESS SELLER must be identified as such on eBay, as opposed to being a hobby seller on eBay.
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we're all still waiting for the pearls of wisdom explaining how this isn't the same thing happening in the UK, as happened here....
Another one who didn't bother to read the OP and the linked page. So long as it's a swipe at eBay or PayPal....that'll do eh??
You people keep playing your guessing game. In the meantime, this thread has a topic if you're not too busy to discuss it. You'll have to actually read the OP though.
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ENOUGH!
Take personal disputes to PM, please. No more on this thread. Thank you.
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Another one who didn't bother to read the OP and the linked page. So long as it's a swipe at eBay or PayPal....that'll do eh??
LOL...when Ebay tried to push Paypal only in Australia, it was the biggest ACCC issue ever recorded....and now they're trying to do it in the UK?...let me ask you...were you asleep when Ebay was attempting to Breach the TPA (ie.. break the law) in this country via Exclusive Dealing?.....and you think I've missed the point?...lol...whatever....lol
They are now trying it on in the UK.....the question is, whether they have a similar regulator over anti competitive conduct.....
If you want to debate the ins and outs of that argument Bazz.....let it rip mate....I'm up for it....
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Liz, it's because you're listing on ebay.com, the UK rules are not (as yet) changing.
That is a quote from the linked thread. It was confirmed by the OP.
As far as I am aware there has been no change to the payment methods available on the UK site.
Like I said earlier....a storm in a teacup.
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Have you confirmed it? If not, what you quote is heresay.
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As the OP clarified after her initial post,
In my first listing [on.com site and for childrens vintage clothing category] I offered cheque or Bank transfer for UK BUYERS ONLY as well as paypal and the listing was rejected.
When I removed those options, the listing was accepted.
Previously she had been able to list on eBay.com and offer cheque or bank tranfser for UK BUYERS ONLY.
She has just recently found there's been a change - that she cannot now offer cheque or bank transfers for UK BUYERS ONLY when listing on eBay.com.
Furthermore:
http://pages.ebay.co.uk/help/pay/methods.html
I quote:
"Cheques, postal orders, and direct bank transfers are not allowed for most eBay purchases.
However, sellers may offer these payment methods for certain categories of items including vehicles, capital and business equipment.
For specific exceptions, see our Accepted Payments policy."
I'm told this is an "old" page but it's the only one I can find on the UK payment methods. It specifically states that cheques, postal orders and direct bank transfers are "not allowed for most ebay purchases".
This may be confusing in terms of a difference between practice and guidelines on the UK site - but no one on the UK site has been able to direct me to a more updated page.
Hence my concern - and hence the phrase "storm in a teacup" is not appropos.
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Ubbiemax. Please read the linked thread, then go and find the announcement that says 'You can no longer offer bank deposit as a payment method on ebay UK'.
It doesn't exist.
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http://pages.ebay.co.uk/help/pay/methods.html
I've put it in large letters so that everyone can find it and read it.
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Yes Bazza. What Countess said above & at post #59.
You made statements based on what another person posted, your post#57.
That is heresay.
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Countessa, the policy states it but as you were told, it is not enforced when listing on eBay UK....only on ebay.com
I'm sure we would have heard about it, had it been enforced.
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I'm very glad to hear that. But... on what do you base your statement that "it is not enforced when listing on eBay UK"?
Is the assumption that the eBay UK page is incorrect based only on an assumption that if it weren't, you'd have heard about it?
This thread had as its purpose an attempt to uncover what was happening, given that the information stated by eBay quite specifically says that bank transfers and cheques can no longer be accepted for most items on eBay.co.uk. This was highlighted when a seller found that the payment methods she was able to offer had changed - that she could no longer offer bank transfer and cheque to UK sellers. This is a recent change, and so far it's been clarified that this is occurring in practice on the eBay.com site (EVEN THOUGH JUST RECENTLY THIS SELLER WAS ABLE TO LIST ON EBAY.COM AND INCLUDE BANK TRANSFER AND CHEQUE TO UK SELLERS)... which begs the question: what is happening on the UK site?
Assumption is really not enough. It has important implications for UK sellers.
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This is what my previous comment (not assumption) is based on:
320487323938
Getting harder to find now because sellers in the UK realise that buyers are more confident using PayPal. IMO.
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:huh: :5+5:
No doubt that is a nice publication for children, but what on earth is the relevance of a book called "Numberjacks Annual 2010" to this discussion?
I note that the payment methods offered on this listing do include banker's draft, postal order and personal cheque as well as PayPal. In what way does this listing convey the impression that it's "Getting harder to find now because sellers in the UK realise that buyers are more confident using PayPal"?
What does the listing in fact have to do with whether or not it will not be possible soon to offer payment by bank transfer or cheque on the eBay UK site?
Perhaps you intended it as a joke?
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Countessa, you asked a question in your opening post:
Is eBay now disallowing cheques and bank transfers on the UK site?
The answer to that question is, no. Hence the example of a random newly listed item which offers the above.
My reference to the confidence in PayPal came about because that example was hard to find. Most sellers only accept PayPal obviously by choice.
No joke.
Any change to the UK sites accepted payment methods would be pure speculation. No need to hang them just yet.
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"sellers in the UK realise that buyers are more confident using PayPal. IMO" What do you base that assumption on?
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Well obviously bazza you don't do much buying huh?...cause the majority of sellers I deal with and browse on ebay au.... prefer bank deposit ....and no doubt the UK has a similar no fee bank deposit payment system...it's free you see...no fees, no bullshit...but hey....you seem to speak on behalf of all sellers and all buyers.........how do you know that most sellers prefer paypal?...either here or in the UK?....any stats to offer?
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My opinion (not assumption) is based on the fact that I had to open 7 listings in that category on .uk.co to find one seller who offered anything other than PayPal. I continued in another category and found the same thing.
We are talking about UK Cupie, not AU.
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..how do you know that most sellers prefer paypal?...either here or in the UK?...
That PP only crap started in the US first.
We've had a longer time to hate it!
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So now it's an opinion. Do you know the difference between an opinion and an assumption?
An opinion is a belief or judgment that rests on grounds insufficient to produce complete certainty. It is a personal view, attitude, or appraisal.
An assumption is something taken for granted or accepted as true without proof, it is a supposition.
By stating it is an opinion you don't have sufficient grounds to be certain.
Opinion is heresy unless it is the testimony of a dead or dying person (written statement) or the testimony of a recognised expert in a particular field, in this case Ebay.
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Bazza, let's examine this assumption.
You've stated "My reference to the confidence in PayPal came about because that example was hard to find. Most sellers only accept PayPal obviously by choice."
This is not a reasonable conclusion. You are assuming a causal relationship between your assumption that sellers prefer PayPal and your finding of items for sale on the UK item that offer payment methods other than PayPal.
It has clearly not occurred to you that the page http://pages.ebay.co.uk/help/pay/methods.html, the only page I've been able to find on the UK site about acceptable payment methods in the UK, is leading many sellers to think that bank transfer and cheque are not permitted methods on eBay.co.uk. Yet this is certainly a reasonable possibility.
You state "Most sellers only accept PayPal obviously by choice". You provide no evidence that this is "obviously" by choice. Given that there is information that suggests many sellers don't even realise they can accept other payment methods, such a statement does not really withstand examination.
You further state that "Any change to the UK sites accepted payment methods would be pure speculation. No need to hang them just yet." I'll leave the rather distasteful "No need to hang them just yet" part of that statement without further comment. Let's just examine the first part, in which you say it's "pure speculation".
1. It is fact that the only page on eBay.co.uk's site about acceptable payment methods explicitly states that bank transfer and cheques are not acceptable payment methods. Hence we have something that is not speculation, but fact. Every example of a listing that does offer cheque or bank transfer as a payment method thus functions only as a practical exception. It may well be currently valid, but eBay can at any time end any listing that offers other payment methods, pointing to the page where this payment information is explicitly stated. There is in fact no evidence that this has NOT happened. We cannot assume it has, but equally we cannot assume it has not. The fact remains that the relevant eBay page says that the payment methods we've been discussing are NOT permitted. That is not speculation. That is fact.
2. It is interesting that other eBay UK sellers with whom I've been speaking have expressed their concern that other methods than PayPal will not be permitted on eBay.co.uk. That may well be their speculation, but it is not MY speculation. It is fact that they are concerned. They are concerned on the basis of what's been happening elsewhere, and the fact that the eBay page about payment methods has not been changed.
3. It is fact that UK sellers who used to be able to list on eBay.com and include on their listings some payment methods that applied to UK buyers only, can no longer do so. This is a recent change, and it's the one that prompted the opening post of the thread to which I referred. This has caused UK sellers to wonder whether it was the harbinger of things to come on eBay.co.uk. The changes that occurred recently are not speculation; they are fact. You may prefer to focus on the point that so far there's been no announcement on eBay.co.uk to indicate that the changes which occur elsewhere are going to be implemented on eBay.co.uk, and to treat this as speculation which in your opinion is unnecessary. However, you've made assumptions that are incorrect. Of course you are entitled to make incorrect assumptions. That's your right. Don't be surprised if people who can see the chasms between assumption and conclusion will not agree with what you've said.
In conclusion, the issue consists of facts that lead to speculation. Ignoring facts that lead to strong suspicions of forthcoming results would simply mean nothing can be forseen until it is fait accompli and too late to deal with potential problems. It's hard to see how anyone could function like that...
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It always was an opinion Ubbiemax:
sellers in the UK realise that buyers are more confident using PayPal. IMO.
IMO = In my opinion
It is a personal view, attitude, or appraisal.
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Very well said Countess. Ever considered a career in Law?
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Finally Bazza, do you agree that your opinion may be wrong? Do you also agree that your opinion is heresay?
Incidently I didn't know IMO meant in my opinion. I, like many others are not familiar with computer abbreviation jargon and it is wrong to assume everyone is.
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I haven't considered it, Ubbie, but who knows for the future? I hear that people are changing careers about three times these days - but this is just hearsay from a Canadian and I have to admit I was dubious about his statement.
Can anyone find a more up-to-date page about payment methods on eBay's UK site?
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Yeah UbbieMax......I knew that had to be my fault. Sheeeeeesh!
No, my opinion is based on my experience as stated earlier. It has nothing to do with hearsay.
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Narh Countess. I can't find anything newer than what you found. I'm wondering whether Ebay UK are practicing an amnesty period or whether there is a future start date. I don't know so I will express no opinion nor will I make any assumption.
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Countessa, it is my opinion that you have over-thought this matter. The fact remains that those other payment methods are currently accepted on .uk.co but why anyone would put themselves to trouble of using them evades me. I just don't see that PayPal only would be such a bad move considering the number of sellers who have already gone down that path (by choice).
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"my opinion is based on my experience as stated earlier. It has nothing to do with hearsay."
Bazza, Bazza, Bazza. All opinions are hearsay unless they are the opinions of an expert in a particular field eg. a forensic pathologist stating his opinion on cause of death for the Court.
Are you now implying that you are an expert in matters relating to Ebay UK and/or Ebay.com? Produce proof as to your expertise and, if it is fair and reasonable I will bow to your superior knowledge. But, if it isn't fair & reasonable don't expect me to have any regard for any credibility you may think you have.
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Bazza, are you a seller on eBay, who prefers to accept PayPal, given that you are stating you "don't see that PayPal only would be such a bad move considering the number of sellers who have already gone down that path (by choice)"?
Do you think (if it's the case that this is so) that perhaps your own preference as a seller for PayPal is influencing your assumption that many sellers have chosen PayPal by choice? Are you aware of any disinclination by sellers to use PayPal? Do you in fact know many sellers, and have you checked with them about what their preference is?
Have you checked with sellers who have always used bank transfers, and taken into consideration their comments? What about sellers who accept credit card payments directly? Have you asked them whether they prefer PayPal?
Finally - I'd be interested in your clarification of this point. At one moment you say I have "over-thought this matter", with the implicit conclusion that you don't think that other payment methods are in danger of being forbidden on eBay.co.uk, and the next you say "I just don't see that PayPal only would be such a bad move", which certainly implies that you think there's a possibility that other payment methods ARE in danger of being forbidden on eBay.co.uk. Which is it? You don't think it's likely, or you do think it's likely?
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UbbieMax. Please don't try to play the expert with me. If you don't like my opinion, too bad.
Opinion:
1. a belief or judgment that rests on grounds insufficient to produce complete certainty.
2. a personal view, attitude, or appraisal.
Hearsay:
1. unverified, unofficial information gained or acquired from another and not part of one's direct knowledge
I gave my OPINION.
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Exactly Bazza. You have got something correct.
Hearsay is something not perceived with ones own senses, sight, sound, feel taste, smell. Opinions are not perceived with one's own senses but are just that, opinions and are therefore hearsay .
After spending over 30 years in this field I believe I am qualified to make such statements I don't need to "try to play the expert".
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For those who are not aware, Ubbie is a gentleman of very thorough knowledge and very thorough credentials in the field of evidence.
We're lucky to have people of undoubted qualifications here. :mates:
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Well my experience with the last few item's I purchased recently is the sellers offered express post at regular post price if I paid via bank deposit...they offered ...I didn't ask...
It would be interesting if a poll was put to say 20 sellers and asked their preferred method of payment... an honest poll...not an Ebay instigated number twisting hot air session...
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Yeah Yib. The vibes I get here in Australia is that many sellers hate Paypal as it is expensive, it can tie payments up for unreasonable reasons, and Paypal sides with the buyer irrespective of seller proof when claims are lodged for item not received etc.
I also question Paypal's stated buyer security. The word "may" doesn't mean will.
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My history is unimportant Countessa. It has no bearing on what I see before me except that I know what I'm reading. I am aware that there is no chance of winning a debate here as the only people who wish to debate with me are ebay/PayPal haters. You would be surprised at the number of supportive emails I get from members here who are happy to sit on the sidelines and watch but don't wish to get involved.
What I'm saying, if I wasn't clear enough is that I think, firstly that in the UK there would be less opposition to PayPal only, than there was in AU and secondly that the change would not be detrimental to ebays market position. I will also state that I think you will find that the policy change was made as a pre-emptive move based on the result achieved in AU. Hence, the lack of any announcement or enforcement.
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Bazza. I am not an Ebay/Paypal hater as I'm a buyer only but I don't blame those sellers who have been wronged by Paypal for hating it.
I have won/bought some great gear in the past but, sadly those days are gone with many of the good sellers, both here & overseas, leaving. Luckily some have started their own web sites and are selling.
Are you a buyer or seller?
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I'm afraid I cannot agree, Bazza, that your "history is unimportant". You have stated several assumptions which must rest on something, and it's puzzling that you don't wish to explain on what those assumptions rest.
If you don't wish to answer those questions, that's fine. It does give your argument less credibility since it rests entirely on what you have called your "experience", but that is your privilege. You must also be aware that talking of "winning a debate here" is rather a peculiar comment. Debating involves not just stating opposing opinions, but supporting those opinions. Formal debaters give supporting evidence rather than calling upon assumption and then not providing any sort of legitimacy - such as would occur with saying "I am a seller on eBay who prefers accepting PayPal" or "I am not a seller on eBay but I have studied the evidence of sellers preferring PayPal", or whatever it may be. The reason for providing such supporting evidence is to avoid the opposing debater from challenging assumptions and exposing them as mere assumptions without evidence. Hence you must be prepared to actually debate before expecting a win to be a real possibility.
But in actual fact, this thread is not and never was intended to be a "debate". I'm a little puzzled that you appear to think it is.
Have you perhaps misunderstood, and thought that this thread is about whether sellers prefer PayPal or don't prefer PayPal? It's not: it's about whether eBay is disallowing cheques and bank transfers on the UK site. It's not about opinion, but about following the facts that are leading sellers in the UK to worry that certain payment methods are either being excluded or are going to be excluded.
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Well my experience with the last few item's I purchased recently is the sellers offered express post at regular post price if I paid via bank deposit...they offered ...I didn't ask...
It would be interesting if a poll was put to say 20 sellers and asked their preferred method of payment... an honest poll...not an Ebay instigated number twisting hot air session...
I see it far more simplistically than this.
When ebay introduced paypal as potentially an only option a large number of older demographic buyers left the site. Many of these were collectors of antiques, coins etc.
They simply did not wish to enter an online payment system - too risky and complicated in their view.
I still enjoy these buyers, all done privately of course.
Who loses out - sellers ( less sales )
and ebay - less items sold through their site.
even today as much as 50 % of my trades on ebay are by bank deposit and money order / cheque.
If this is an indication of the number of buyers in my chosen field who still use old fashioned " safe " methods how much would ebay lose if they enforced mandatory paypal.
An interesting thought.
;D
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Countessa, history is unimportant because frankly, history can be fictional. Anyone can make up history on a forum. I prefer to debate/argue points that I have an opinion on currently. I do note that there are very few debates here. My opinion, based on my experience here, is that people know they will be set-upon if they rock the boat. I don't think that was the original purpose of this forum. Was it?
It is my opinion that debate does not have to be as formal as you descibe. Allowing people to share an opinion in the way they see fit doesn't mean they must back up their opinion with evidence. It means they have an opinion they want to share. To discuss.
I think you will find that one of your own, attempted to turn this into a debate.
Hearsay is something not perceived with ones own senses, sight, sound, feel taste, smell. Opinions are not perceived with one's own senses but are just that, opinions and are therefore hearsay .
Ubbiemax, it is my opinion, that that statement is absolute rubbish.
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"Hearsay is something not perceived with ones own senses, sight, sound, feel taste, smell. Opinions are not perceived with one's own senses but are just that, opinions and are therefore hearsay .
Ubbiemax, it is my opinion, that that statement is absolute rubbish."
You are entitled to your opinion but, that is what has and still is being tought to a tertiary level in the Law enforcement field. It is the plain English way of explaining hearsay.
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Here is an example just sent to me by a member of this forum. I have their permission to use it here.
Over the last 3 weeks, I've bought 38 items off ebay. Some from overseas and some from Aus. Not one of those sellers asked to be paid by DD or offered cheaper postage for DD. 29 of those sellers only accepted PP. I used PP for every one.
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Bazza, you don't need to continue to defend your refusal to answer the questions put to you. As I've explained, that's fine. It just means that it's likely some will not consider your experience to have been explained, and hence will not factor it in in the event of a debate thread being created. It's entirely up to you if you prefer to be thought of as a bit of a mystery and not linked to selling activity on eBay.
It will inevitably cause some to wonder why you apparently wish to promote the value of PayPal here if you are NOT a seller on eBay and do not use PayPal as a seller yourself. But it is your privilege.
Perhaps you have little experience of other forums: I'm not sure why you have commented on "I do note that there are very few debates here". There are sites specifically set up for debating, and if you wish, I will PM you the links. They can be very interesting, and if you'd like to hone your debating skills, some of the forums are ideal for that purpose. Just let me know if you'd like that information, but PM me if so, as I would prefer to see this thread try to keep on topic.
I'm talking with various UK sellers at this moment, on the subject of this thread.
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"Over the last 3 weeks, I've bought 38 items off ebay. Some from overseas and some from Aus. Not one of those sellers asked to be paid by DD or offered cheaper postage for DD. 29 of those sellers only accepted PP. I used PP for every one."
I wonder why that member didn't post that comment his or herself? It is of course his or her prerogative whether he or she wishes to post of course but,
that statement would have more credibility if that person had posted.
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Chris from Tamebay may be able to help with this topic ... he has his finger on the eBay.uk pulse
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That's a good point, Smee. It would be excellent to discuss this with him.
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Yeah Smee. I forgot about him. He is a very learned person on matters pertaining to Ebay.
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Smee, I'd like to hear Chris's opinion on the future of .uk.co and the probability of PayPal only.
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Here is an example just sent to me by a member of this forum. I have their permission to use it here.
Over the last 3 weeks, I've bought 38 items off ebay. Some from overseas and some from Aus. Not one of those sellers asked to be paid by DD or offered cheaper postage for DD. 29 of those sellers only accepted PP. I used PP for every one.
That statement begs more questions than anything. It has undefined conditions and variables that drastically affect the correct categorisation of the numbers supplied.
The only statement that I have no argument with is that the buyer "used PP for every one" - since eBay has ensured this option.
As an example of how meaningless this statement is, I will take it exactly as written and add my own notes. Further, since it is presented as a positive statement towards Paypal, I will make those notes in the opposite sense.
Over the last 3 weeks, I've bought 38 items off ebay. Some from overseas and some from Aus. (I'm not going to say how many of each, since that will give me away) Not one of those sellers asked to be paid by DD (Despite the fact that most of the ones in Australia said they accept or prefer DD, they didn't explicitly ASK me to pay by DD) or offered cheaper postage for DD (No, but half of them offered me a discount on their handling charges if I paid by DD). 29 of those sellers only accepted PP (They were the overseas sellers. They might accept other payment methods locally, but only accept PP for international sales - so, for ME, it is true that they would only accept PP). I used PP for every one (Mainly because I can get my money back if I want to... I know I won't have to have a good reason or any proof of anything).
Now, before you set out your righteous indignation as such a presumptuous corruption of the truth I have these two things to state:
1. My notes ARE a fabrication, fictional and are NOT a suggestion that this IS the case in this buyer's statement.
2. However, on the basis of the information given in the statement, THEY ARE AS VALID an interpretation as the superficial inference.
I am almost embarrassed for you in offering such a shallow example in an attempt to support your position.
I do hope, too, that you are able to understand my response is not denouncing Paypal or the buyer - just the purported value of the 'exhibit'.
... and even that is on the presumption that the statement is genuine.
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Your choice Brum6y. I'm sure the writer will read your comments with interest.
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A political writer and, for that matter, a spin doctor from the corporate world, would take my scenario interpretation and reduce it to the statement offered.
Justification: There are no lies in the statement.
It is not a safe position to rely on inferences.
If the statement is genuine and the buyer is a member here, I would hope they can see the statement cited is not convincing. I welcome the writer's interest.
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Your choice Brum6y. I'm sure the writer will read your comments with interest.
Errr ... Just what am I supposed to be choosing..?
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I'm sure the writer will read your comments with interest.
And even better if the buyer were to verify the validity if the quotation :), but perhaps that buyer is just to shy to say it themselves.
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Absolutely Poddy. That's a problem.
Brum6y, you chose to question the validity of the statement because I presented it. Why would that statement be any less valid than a quote from your 'seller friend'. The only reason I would think is because it sways towards supporting something you 'disagree' with. I do understand, I'm not sure you do.
Goodnight.
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I do hope, too, that you are able to understand my response is not denouncing Paypal or the buyer - just the purported value of the 'exhibit'.
It appears I was quite wrong.
I have neither stated my position for nor against the inference contained in the statement - just that the statement itself does not contain adequate information to be convincing.
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Brum6y, you chose to question the validity of the statement because I presented it.
My, my. We are precious, aren't we?
Sorry to burst your bubble, but I would offer the same challenge on the validity of evidence submitted in similar circumstances, whether their ID was "Bazza", "RiffRaff" or "Rumplestiltskin".
Watch that first step off your high-horse ... you could land flat on your face.
Good night, Nick.
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How odd Brum6y. I can usually rely on you to be the one who sees things for what they are and not what you'd like them to be. You don't usually stoop to having a dig when others do. I'll put that down to a late night.
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Good morning one and all...
Now....not wanting to cause a riff amongst all the posters here....I would like to add my 2c worth.
Looking at the example that Bazza mentioned (the numbers book), it seems that the listing is in UK currency and only available to the UK market.
Hence, the seller was able to include other forms of payment options in their listing.
I am unaware if the person that had trouble listing their item was using UK currency or US currency....but if they were listing on the US site, then wouldn't the US Ebay rules over ride the listers usual ability to include their prefered choice of payment?
This would, in effect, mean that it is impossible to list worldwide....and still maintain your preferences for local payments...and if you wished to do so...you would need to make two listings....which of course means that Ebay get two lots of fees..lol
I could be wrong of course...(naaahhh, only kidding..lol), but maybe Baz could find us a listing by a UK sellers that is listing in the US and has other methods of payment available?
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Probably not Roo but then we are talking about listings on ebay UK. What you are talking about has already been discussed on the UK ebay forum that Countessa posted a link to in the OP. You appear to have missed the point of this discussion.
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Roo has questioned this situation because it is an extremely confusing one. There is contradictory information and practice all over the place; no wonder it's still being mulled over and questioned!
Up to a short time ago, UK sellers were able to list on eBay.com (so that they attracted US buyers as well as local buyers) and include bank transfer and cheque as a payment method for UK buyers.
That has recently changed.
The question being thrown open is... does this imply payment method changes on the UK site?
When we begin to delve into this, we realise it's an ambiguous and confusing can of worms.
The payment method page on eBay.co.uk specifically states that bank transfer and cheque are NOT permitted on the UK site.
Some UK listings still include bank transfer and cheque as payment methods.
It is at least likely that some listings offering those payment methods have been removed.
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You're right Countess...it is a bit confusing..mainly because it seems that Ebay UK has made no official mention of a change (if there is one) except in their terms which are well hidden.
That book listing still has about 9 days to run....and if the change is only recent, the seller may very likely be confronted with the fact that they may not be able to relist the book with the same conditions if it doesn't sell.
One of the things I find strange is that they can chop and change their rules without quoting an actual date as to when those rules will be enforced.
Most businesses usually make reference to the date of any changes in their terms and conditions...unlike Ebay when they do this by stealth.
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How odd Brum6y. I can usually rely on you to be the one who sees things for what they are and not what you'd like them to be. You don't usually stoop to having a dig when others do. I'll put that down to a late night.
Dismiss it as you will.
However the time of day has no bearing on the fact that you claimed my challenge on the statement offered was based on who you are and not on the statement itself. Since you seem familiar with my posting style, such a claim would surely be incongruous with that understanding.
I am uncertain as to whether your 'take' derives from arrogance - that I should dare question the 'evidence' - from playing the role of 'victim' or from desperation - should you feel you have no other retort.
The fact remains that the statement offered is ambiguous and my fictional annotations were offered to demonstrate exactly that and are quite independent of the source.
You, or anybody who has observed my posts, should be well aware that I will concede a valid point even if it is 'in opposition' to a stated opinion and equally as true that I will not let an invalid argument stand unchallenged, especially if it is the basis of further discussion. Also, that when I have been wrong, I admit it. To do otherwise would compromise the validity of discussion and render any conclusions as highly suspect.
Brum6y, you chose to question the validity of the statement because I presented it.
I still find this claim fascinating
Why would that statement be any less valid than a quote from your 'seller friend'.
It is no less valid, nor is it any more valid. If the roles were reversed, I would be seeking clarification from my source and presenting additional details to underpin the veracity of the original statement - yet you have not even indicated an interest in doing so.
The only reason I would think is because it sways towards supporting something you 'disagree' with.
Already covered this misdirection ... and I still haven't bought any flyscreen doors for my submarine, either.
I do understand,
I am very sure you do.
I'm not sure you do.
Oh, but I do and only too well.
I find this diversion from the discussion is the 'storm in a teacup'. The cited statement is lacking. It needs more detailed support. Any personal interactions are a distraction. If you want to continue in this vein, then I must honestly question your motives since objective discussion of the thread topic is becoming a distant memory - but bring it on.
I would much rather get back to the topic, but if you insist.....
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Smee or anyone else. Has Chris been contacted in the hope that some light may be shed on the subject?
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Bazza your quote at Reply #94 is once again hearsay as you were not the one who conducted the Ebay transactions.
The person who, allegedly, emailed you with those comments is the person who should post the comments.
I tend to doubt whether you received any email at all or rather, you have concocted the statement yourself.
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Smee or anyone else. Has Chris been contacted in the hope that some light may be shed on the subject?
I havent contacted him Birdie ... I can do as I have his email address if no else has made contact... although he is a member her and therefore should be easily contacable by anyone here via PM especially if he still has the email alert turned on ..
the reason why I havent contacted him is that I havent really been ative in this thread and didnt want to interfere ... so I thought I would leave it upto the OP or any other participants to make the contact if they wanted .... but I can email him if the general consesus is yes ask for his comments
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G'day Smee. My thoughts are, yes, contact him.
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I think Chris would be well placed to comment and I would support the invitation being issued.
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I have sent Chris a link and invited him to post his comments on this thread in regards to the original topic/question in the op
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Thank you.
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Good stuff Smee.
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You would be surprised at the number of supportive emails I get from members here who are happy to sit on the sidelines and watch but don't wish to get involved.
*Excuse me while I take a brief detour from the topic...*
funny you should say that bazz and as with everything there is always two sides to a coin.....You'd be surprised how many emails I've received about your attitude towards other members on various occasions, but unlike yourself, I wouldn't want to betray the trust of those members by posting their comments here.......says quite a bit about your good self though huh? *makes note never to email bazza with any expectation of privacy*
I guess it just goes to show that “You may fool all the people some of the time, you can even fool some of the people all of the time, but you cannot fool all of the people all the time.”
Abe Lincoln
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Enlighten me Cupie. Who's comments have I posted here and who have I betrayed?
Huh?
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Here is an example just sent to me by a member of this forum. I have their permission to use it here.
Over the last 3 weeks, I've bought 38 items off ebay. Some from overseas and some from Aus. Not one of those sellers asked to be paid by DD or offered cheaper postage for DD. 29 of those sellers only accepted PP. I used PP for every one.
that one !!!...and if there is such a member, then they should post it themselves....if they exist.....
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In fact, unless you asked them if you could publish it, I'd be a bit suss of anyone emailing me with their opinion, and inciting me to post it on their behalf....what is this a posting service?.....lol...
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Well I'm pretty sure there is no member here called 'that one'. Read the post again Cupie. I didn't even have to ask that person. They told me I was welcome to quote them.
what is this a posting service?..... Is there a new rule against quotes?
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Has this thread deteriorated to the level of kindegarten kids with kindegarten values and kindergarten logic?
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this is a friendly reminder of the topic :)
From a thread on the UK Round table:
Quote
before I went out tonight, I scheduled an item to start...[I use Auctiva}
Just come home to see No items For Sale on my ebay page!
Logged into auctiva to see....Error....ebay no longer accept bank transfers or cheques as payment methods!
Grrrr....they just want more and more dosh out of us by forcing paypoo on us!
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Yeah.
Stay ON topic.
How difficult is that?
The Sin Bin is looking quiet lately............
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IMO... Chris seems to be the best source of information regarding this subject... I do hope he comes here and clears this up... the roulette table of humble pie will be interesting ...LOL