Oz Round Table
The Oz Round Table boards => The Round Table => Topic started by: ernest_price on August 08, 2009, 01:34:25 PM
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Must be quite concerning for you.
Thanks for the IP Address 124.179.XXX.XXX ;D
Your ISP has been notified at abuse@bigpond.net.au
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You received one of these too ernest????? Isn't it wonderful to not be alone!!! (Appears as same IP)
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Hi...can you two message admin if the hacking attempt is associated with this site...ta !
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I too received one, it is for a password reminder request.
Here are the results of the Trace ran on that IP
Name: cpe-124-179-xxx-x.vic.bigpond.net.au
IP Address: 124.179.xxx.x
Location: xxx
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How are you Cupie!
Have already done so - and thankyou! :choc: :coffeecup:
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Any member who has had the same hack attempt is entitled to report this abuse to the Internet Service Provider of the abuser. This will ensure that the attempted hacker will be held accountable.
Ernest's post includes the email address to which all such abuse should be directed. Let me know if any of the admin team can be of help.
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Howdi "R".....cretons aren't they? like gatecrashers at a party !!
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yes I recieved it as well ,thought it seemed rather strange ,I sent a reply saying that I didn't apply the forgot password function before I saw this post
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As Poddy has done, it's best not to post the full IP address.
The IP address and associated account may be leased to an innocent party such as son, daughter, mother, father, solicitor. We wouldn't want any DOS style reprisals.
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Tickets are now on SALE at TelloTix.com .
First come, first served. How is Life unfair like that????
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Howdi "R".....cretons aren't they? like gatecrashers at a party !!
I suppose it depends how you look at it........ this is a good place.... maybe the person doesn't know how to register????
AND......... WE'VE GOT A TELLO! How unique is that!!! What we call a 'drawcard'! (I can see him thinking..... "How can I earn a buck out of this!) ;D
G'day Tello..... didn't see you hiding there. ;D
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lmao....yeah ok...hehehehe
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I have had two of those today. Re "forgotten password" for Oz Round Table. Reported both as phishing.Is that okay?
Also sent a mail to admin.earlier.
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The thing to do is to email Bigpond with a report, along these lines:
abuse@bigpond.net.au (You will need to send the report to this email address)
To Whom It May Concern
I wish to report an attempt to hack my account on a forum, emanating from the IP Address 124.179.XXX.XXX, at [time]. I received an email notification that the hack attempt was made. (Please let me know if you wish me to forward the original email to you, including headers.) I request that you take action against the account involved in this hack attempt.
You may reach me for further details (if required) at my email address [email].
Yours faithfully,
[name]
Of course, use the exact IP address involved when you make this complaint. Also include the time and date of the hack attempt.
This is the only way in which to ensure that the situation is properly dealt with.
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May I just reiterate the need to have strong passwords.
If your pasword is weak please change it.
The attempts at password guessing are designed more to be a disrupton than anything else in my opinion.
Usually they are a precurser to more desruptive bahavior, they act as a warning that something is afoot.
Sad really
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I had that happen in the early stages and reported it to the persons ISP and posted incedent here.
it didnt happen again :brickpile:
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night-hawk I have now sent an email and forwarded the two emails I received to the abuse@bigpond.net.au address.
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Hopefully they get a very blut warning from bigpuddle or even their interenet suspended.
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I have my toes crossed ;D
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I got one too
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Ditto
Sent: Saturday, 8 August 2009 1:23:11 PM
Also reported to Telstra Internet.
Location of IP looks nice and green :) and I am not referring to The Telstra office lol, some of us can find out more than they think.
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Liisa - let's just say I like Launceston ;D
Especially the south - Scotch Oakburn Park is nice this time of year :)
My initial Hobart comment in the Topic was from a 30 second check. Forgot that the main line goes Hobart/Devonport/Melbourne VIA Launceston. Took 2 minutes to do the proper check.
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I didn't get one. :'(
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Don't feel left out fluffy :rose: Would you like me to send you a copy of mine????
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Poor little neglected fluffy :'(...I will give you a big pat :console:
and I could send you copies of mine :devil:
but better not :roflmao:
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Thanks R2D2. Very kind of you, but it won't be necessary. Your kind thoughts are appreciated. :-*
Centuries. Thank you also. Umm I do have a little request for you though. I don't like pats. They make me feel, well like an animal or something.
:rofl: :neener: :quack:
All kisses and hugs welcome though. :kisshug:
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:pmsl: Here you are fluffy :green:
(http://i975.photobucket.com/albums/ae234/acaciame/LipsBigKissGirl.gif)
(http://i975.photobucket.com/albums/ae234/acaciame/ATT396867.gif)
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The hug was real nice Centuries, but I prefer a little less tongue - at least until we get to know each other better. ;D
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I didn't get one. :'(
me either Fluffy ,
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Poor Smee. I know how you feel. :kisshug:
Hey Centuries, you've changed your avatar again.
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I am in the process of seeing which I dislike the least fluffy. An arduous task. I hope it is not too much ;D :devil:
kisses for fluffy sans tongue :green:
(http://i975.photobucket.com/albums/ae234/acaciame/kises2.gif)
Smee (http://i975.photobucket.com/albums/ae234/acaciame/kisses.gif)
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Yib may be able to help Centuries. He found my latest one.
Thanks for the adjusted kiss.
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Yib is very kind and did help by sending me a link but it is me ....can't seem to find something ..But I will. Something will hit me in the eye . I am spending far too much time browsing and not doing other 'real life' things
(http://i975.photobucket.com/albums/ae234/acaciame/jpgMaxinehittingescapejpg.jpg)
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I've been left out ...... Again
**sobbing quietly in the dark corner**
Interestingly, I live in Launceston, and when I have done checks on my own IP address, it has shown up as Hobart, and a place in the East lauceston / Norwood area.. But nothing closer than a couple of kms
:wine:
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The IP checker can be wildly inaccurate.
I tried it once to see what my IP would show....and it came up with some place in Sydney!
I'm in Melbourne!
It was explained to me that it has something to do with your ISP....and what route it takes to work...or something like that...lol
Too techie for me...but I do know that it can't be relied on.
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You are correct that accuracy depends on your ISP. Those with a Satellite one way and wired the other you can forget about. Those with other ISP's it's hit and miss. Those who are bigpond customers it's much more accurate.
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Definitely - it does depend on a number of factors. Sometimes people doing nasty things online believe that they are hidden from view while they hurl their bad behaviour around. Their belief is not always justified.
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A suggestion - change your board ID to something different to your user ID. I haven't had any password attempts since I did this.
goto Profile menu > Account Related Settings
If visitors are curious to see more of the forum, why don't you just sign up to be a member? This forum welcomes new members and is open to anyone who wishes to join provided you follow posting guidelines.
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And, Centuries, love your new avatar! How do you keep finding pics that look like me?
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Awwww I was left out too!
Good thing really, as we only got back today.
Wonder why ppl do this? If they want to know what is happening on our forum, all they have to do is join!
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All I could get out of Bigpond today is that they have investigated, confirmed multiple reports and will be contacting the owner of the account next few days. They refuse to talk about it past that due to telecommunications privacy. The person I spoke to seemed to be doing me a favour by even discussing it to that point.
She did joke about how it will probably be blamed on "the teen son was just stupidly playing around as an l33t h@X0r and I'll make sure he doesn't do it again".
I suspect the abuse team have heard it all. Cats are often blamed also, apparently.
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This poor Hobart Hacker probably has a few other things about which to worry than l33t h@X0r c@ts.
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(http://images.icanhascheezburger.com/completestore/2009/1/26/128774339401462679.jpg)
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Privacy Laws only protect the guilty in this country, you have buckley's of getting any action.
If somebody gets your prime IP address, and they are computer savvy, they can use that number to make it appear you are sending emails or spamming, or any other corrupt dealings on the internet.
IP tracking is also not all that useful, as it can be so easily manipulated.
Most trolls have cheap dial up accounts, and dial interstate log on numbers and their IP appears to come from that state.
Because all the major Telco's re route to cope with traffic loads, the trace can bounce world wide, to servers in the US and back to another state here. Trolls use proxy servers where there are no records kept, such as weather stations, and known IP altering programmes like Hide my IP, are easily bought cheaply.
We had a case of knowing someone was going to try to hack our site, and watched them on the panel. Because the person was a banned member and their IP (fixed) was banned, we learned they were going to use another persons computer, so after to days of recording the IP, exact times and date, we sent all the detail off to the ISP, and got told to basically bu***r off.
It does seem that when it comes to invading our privacy, others have a free reign as those laws work against us to protect them.
If you complain to Twitter, they tell you they only accept complaints from official Law Enforcement or the Legal Fraternity.
If you are being trolled on Ebay, and ask who is watching your auctions in their favourites, they wont tell you, it's against their privacy policy.
While it's a wonderful thing to respect others privacy, it works in favour of the criminals and against honest people.
Good to see the Cops are playing the role of children to catch scum who prey on them.
But did they break any privacy laws....? ;D
Funny thing about Telstra, When my wife was phoned and threatend by trolls, they said they couldn't do anything about finding out who it was, but when I said " Yes you can, because our phone number appears on someones account for the phone calls they made, and it was a simple matter of reverse tracing ", the line went dead.
We are all victims of a system that protects those who push the envelope until they are caught read handed, but even then, privacy laws still protect them.
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Luckily this one is a lot simpler :-X
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I agree, if it was a pro, all you would of got was an IP from Limestone in the US, or any of the other thousands they use.
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Liisa - love the piccie. It may even be a real picture of our Lonnie Moggie. :)
Be good if we did have someone from Hobart chip in also - then we could call them our Hobart Hairball! ;D
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IP tracing can be more or less successful depending on a number of factors.
It's also fascinating to note that very specific location information can be obtained when the person is breaking serious laws. This information will of course only be pursued in those very serious instances.
However, just as a general statement, people using proxy servers are not as anonymous as they'd like to be - if they're engaged in breaking the law and if law enforcement is eager to "eliminate them from their enquiries"...
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Again of interest - in the last few years harassment has broken it's way from little league to more serious stuff now. I suspect a few people don't realise that.
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Depends on what Proxy they are using, transparent ones can be traced, however others are impossible, unless you know the source computer, and then it is not enough evidence to convict, the hardrive will only show you logged into that particular proxy, along with another million people worldwide at any given time. The problem is that by the time Police track the the IP to the source, or raid premises, the hard drive is gone or been completely washed.
I could sign out and sign back in, and you could never track me down unless I sign in with my ID, and that's why Police have such a hard time. Most child pornographers never get caught unless they use their personal information or a credit card to join a site.
Most of the Trolls on the internet know how to use these tools, because I suspect, as does my son ( who is a cop ) that they indulge in those sites as well.
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Ernest, yes... I suspect a lot of people using anonymisers or other methods of hiding behind proxy servers are not professionals in these fields. (I know we both know that...) They simply use the tools available to them, understanding some of the technology but not to the extent or depth which professional IT experts do. There are professional hackers employed by criminal organisations who ARE aware, of course... and even some of these have been tracked down in cases where they have been involved in high-cost or high-profile criminal activity.
As practice and legislation catch up with what is happening online, we'll certainly see increasing ease of identification occur.
The tools available online for the average net user are not as informative as the tools available to the serious professional - on EITHER side of the law.
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Bobby, you make an interesting point.
I do wonder why people try to surf anonymously unless they feel they are going to dodgy sites in relation with legal vulnerabilities or credit card information... and of course it doesn't protect their c/c information if they use a proxy server at all! If they give their card information to a phishing site, they can be as anonymous as they like IP-wise, but it's pointless. The site only wants the financial information, which they have if the person has handed it over.
As for pornography sites or extremist sites (terrorist activity, etc.?), I can see that anonymity would be desirable for people visiting those sites...
... and perhaps people who are in the habit of trying to hide their online activities because of their behaviour in one sphere will carry through the same desire for anonymity into another.
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:falseid:
http://www.danasoft.com/sig/301744.jpg
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Bobby, you make an interesting point.
I do wonder why people try to surf anonymously unless they feel they are going to dodgy sites in relation with legal vulnerabilities or credit card information... and of course it doesn't protect their c/c information if they use a proxy server at all! If they give their card information to a phishing site, they can be as anonymous as they like IP-wise, but it's pointless. The site only wants the financial information, which they have if the person has handed it over.
As for pornography sites or extremist sites (terrorist activity, etc.?), I can see that anonymity would be desirable for people visiting those sites...
... and perhaps people who are in the habit of trying to hide their online activities because of their behaviour in one sphere will carry through the same desire for anonymity into another.
Or they get a stalker attached to them and are trying to protect themselves from the crazies when they find out how many nutso idiots there are online who like to collect peoples info :welcomedesk:
Been there got the t shirt
Aint fun :tinfoilhat: :deadhorse:
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Been there got the t shirt
Not one with bullet holes in the back one would hope :potstir: :devil:
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Or they get a stalker attached to them and are trying to protect themselves from the crazies when they find out how many nutso idiots there are online who like to collect peoples info
Been there got the t shirt
Aint fun
Well Kat, I have been fighting those type of idiots for close to four years now, and in my investigations, the worst of them use all the tools to hide themselves.
After deleting hundreds of filthy names registered on my site, I have quite a list of proxy servers they use.
They have even registered my name on G and Y mail and sent me emails with them.
Oh and don't forget anonymail, and self destruct emails like fificorp. Idiots ;D
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Been there got the t shirt
Not one with bullet holes in the back one would hope :potstir: :devil:
:pmsl: :roflmao:
nope Poddy not that stalker
there was threats to kill people but :stalker: :snipe:
The police took a keen interest in that part and while nothing has happened to the stalker
yet
they are aware of what he is up to online and his harrasment of people
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You can't get the police interested in anything. I have shown evidence to more than half a dozen local cops here, including a superintendent, and nothing happens.
Just a joke, the AFP told me they can't touch the sites because they are off shore and out of jurisdiction, so quite simply, they told me I can do the same to them.
So what happens is they cue up on another site that don't want *** coming here for a Romp, and then you get something Fishy turn up. May as well head off to the nearest Diner and get another feed. ;D
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The police took a keen interest in that part and while nothing has happened to the stalker yet they are aware of what he is up to online and his harrasment of people
And nothing will happen to the stalker unless there is solid and irrefutable evidence that he poses a 'real' threat to his victims. At this stage, it's harassment or nuisance, not apprehended violence. Police only get involved if there is a clear threat, risk or breach of the peace.
Has the many headed hydra actually made tangible threats to harm anyone? If so, then Police will act, if not, then it's a nuisance complaint at best.
Police budgets are so tight right now, that they just simply don't have the money or man power to follow up on anything other than blatant cases of intimidation i.e. threatening to come around to your house to rearrange your face etc...Even then, they need evidence, or witnesses.
This is where the gap in the law is....for instance, if someone came around to your front gate every day and screamed abuse at you....or followed you wherever you went, Police would be able to act because conceivably, that person is in fact posing a physical threat and engaging in obvious harassment. The laws dealing with someone lurking at your cyber gate or following you around the net, are just not sophisticated enough yet, and Police are unable to act unless there is a clear risk of violence.
When cyber stalking enters the real world and leads to a fatal outcome however...it may start getting the attention of legislators.
But in the interim, don't blame the police when they don't act.....their hands are tied by the lack of legislation in this area and shrinking budgets....so in the meantime they have to concentrate on crimes they can prosecute.
For instance, Last Monday week ago.....37 houses in our suburb were burgled....37 !!!! All in on day and night....Police are strapped to the boards trying to find the budget and man power to police the huge increase in tangible crime since the recession began.....Their budgets therefore, are much better applied tracking down these criminals, because they know that DPP will have no problem prosecuting. Cyber stalking on the other hand is not quite as easy to prove, and the DPP is therefore less likely or able to prosecute the offender so why waste the money investigating?
Perhaps if an argument could be made for psychological injury, and apprehended violence broadened to include same, then we might be able to bring down some of these borderline personalities once and for all. It's a thought......But the pressure has to be applied to the Pollies to amend the laws and provide budgets for police to focus on apprehending psychological risk for instance, not just physical violence.
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Oh I agree Cupie and dont blame the police at all. The police have better things to do than worry about an idiot making threats online. :comp: :chat:
Most of the time they didnt care.
But the threats to shoot people did make the detective we spoke to sit up and take a bit more notice and start an intelligence file on him for when others complain. :fuzz:
He is already known to the local police in his area but I dont think they think his really dangerous.
:chainsaw:
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You'd be amazed how hard it is to prove 'dangerousness'...to oneself or others....
We had one such incident involving an undiagnosed mentally ill individual who made threats to a 'clerk of the court', who he knew from social sporting involvement. The Chamber Magistrate rang Mental Health and asked for this individual to be assessed for 'dangerousness'. Mental Health visited the person, and with absolutely no recognised assessment whatsoever, they determined that he was 'not dangerous'.
Several years later, he took a shotgun and murdered my friends husband while he was visiting to fix this guys computer.....the guy was clearly dangerous, but the powers that be, didn't bother to properly assess him and my friends husband was killed as a result. He died instantly leaving two children. The devastation to this family was palpable. Still sends shivers down my spine. The moral being that even though police and the local court knew this guy was dangerous, they were powerless to act unless he continued to make threats....even so, the fact that he had been given the comfortable blanket of 'Mental Illness' Diagnosis, made him hard to deal with because his rights outweighed those of his potential victims...and they still do. He wrote letters from prison, threatening the victims family under the noses of corrective services???. The family of this murderer are terrified that he will be released and make good on his murderous threats. Now that's as real as it gets.
Nevertheless, even when the threat is real....it's sometimes hard for police or the local court to get any proactive outcome in apprehending violence. The above example, is an extreme case.
As you found out, the thing that gets the attention of police is actual threats of violence. For instance, had the guy in the above example continued to harass and stalk the clerk of the court, Police would have been able to apprehend the violence before it happened but they would have had an uphill battle getting past the Mental Health Legislation to have him scheduled........and without that, he was a ticking time bomb.
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Legislation is going to change to reflect the altering technology and the opportunities this offers stalkers and bullies, but this will almost certainly require a concerted effort from interested people, groups, the community at large.
It's going to be all-important to see incidents in their real context.
There is a correlation between the extent to which some individuals will behave poorly and aggressively and their belief in their anonymity and/or immunity to prosecution or action - and also their belief in its being impossible to prevent their behaviour.
There is no doubt that the internet offers a higher degree of practical everyday anonymity than dealing face to face with people. There is no doubt that legislation is still catching up with cyber stalking and online bullying. There is no doubt that internet technology facilitates anonymous behaviour and thus also the result that most forums find it impossible to stop an individual or a group of individuals whose purpose is to become a forum troll, a spammer, a hacker, a contentious bully or someone who behaves covertly with a hidden agenda.
It's obviously a VERY inflammatory subject. Perhaps there will be the opportunity for members here to be able to contribute to the changing legislation. If the opportunity arises, I will definitely let members here know.
In the meantime... we will do our best to make this a safe environment for our members, and lordy lord, we have more than enough emoticons for everyone to enjoy... (except that - yes, I did notice we did not have a poodle emoticon. TRAGEDY!)
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Holy Handgrenade of Antioch... I posted before I saw your post, Cupie.
What an awful thing to happen.
It does seem that the rights of someone deemed to be "mentally ill" outweigh the rights of anyone at risk from the behaviour of that person.
I have a problem with the very term "mentally ill" - I am not certain we as a society perceive some types of aberrant and dangerous behaviour clearly while we allow it to be given that fluffy little term. Someone who behaves in a self-destructive way, an unprovoked and senseless way, a dangerous way without any apparent cause, is usually (or at least frequently) thought of as "sick". "A normal person wouldn't act like that"... "A well person wouldn't think like that." Does this cloud our judgement? Where should we draw the line to say that the rights of an individual to feel safe and not menaced by someone else - IRRESPECTIVE of whether or not that someone else is deemed to be "ill" - supersede the rights of the menacer to feel validated, free, etc.?
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Its like the crims using the excuse they were drugged out of their brain or drunk when they have killed some poor bu***r or beat someone up and getting reduced sentences.
Shouldnt be that way.
If they cant behave like the rest of the population and want to use the excuse of substance abuse to try and escape their responsibilities then they are nothing but animals who cant control themselves and should be treated like animals.
:tazdev:
Excuses are for the weak willed and are only used to justify their behaviour in the first place so no excuse is good enough i think. :vent:
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The law in assessment of "ill" or "responsible" is very inadequate..
The instance where a guy fell asleep while driving and ran down and killed four kids, proves the point...
He was help by the law not to be responsible for culpable negligent driving because he was asleep.
As I have said before the "law" and Justice" do not dwell together.
:wine:
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Ah yes, and the road for victims is paved with cases where Mental Health either failed to appropriately assess, or released a dangerous individual, on the basis of their 'rights', and that individual has subsequently murdered someone. There have been some very chilling cases in the past decade, particularly those involving the death of children......
The main problem is that Mental Health is grossly underfunded, and there is literally nowhere to put those considered potentially dangerous in terms of scheduling. They are often released on the basis of their so called rights, but.....they have nowhere to go, or no follow up services!!!
And then there's the ago old argument over whether a Borderline or Anti social personality (formerly known as sociopath...lol) is a mental illness, or just plain evil. It's a real grey area....the concept that someone who kills, must be sick, is one our society tends to lean towards.
Serial killers are not mentally ill, they are just plain evil...their personality is flawed, and broken...and you can't cure personality...there is no chemical imbalance that is demonstrable. Nevertheless, many murderers in this category, sail through our justice system on a mental illness argument??. This guy's lawyer argued schizophrenia? Late adult onset? huh?
Every six months my friend must attend a review wherein the release of this individual is discussed....it's like Groundhog Day and Friday the 13th all rolled into one for this family. Their right to be safe in their own community is outweighed by the rights of this guy, even though he's made threats directly against the family? Intent you might ask? Well yeah !!! Mentally Ill? or sociopathic?
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The main problem is that Mental Health is grossly underfunded, and there is literally nowhere to put those considered potentially dangerous in terms of scheduling. They are often released on the basis of their so called rights, but.....they have nowhere to go, or no follow up services!!!
Society is underfunded, and there are too many lawless people, like stalkers, who think it's fun to bait people on forums, and try and get them banned, but when the tables are turned, and those who do it, get exposed for what they do, and the things they try and hide, scream and Irma Grese and lie through their teeth, to try and deflect the truth, being that they started it all in the first place.
It's a common malady that suits a certain type of people, you can call the family actually, but generally spending all day and night on computers, gleaning peoples details, using other peoples id's to make money on the net.
Did you know Kat, some of these people actually register other peoples ID's to do paid surveys on line, simply altering their IP for each identity, and having multiple Paypal accounts to receive payments, it's all very unlawful what some people get up to, and sometimes, the mere hinting at it, is enough excuse for those who do, to start a vendetta against people to silence them.
I have seen evidence of this where people have claimed to have registered complaints with police, and actually in my case, I rang the police station only to find they had never heard of me, now that's when you know the sort of lying scheming idiots you deal with on the internet.
As far as the law catching up with idiots, and legislation to help, forget it, the law has been there for a coons age, and people can be prosecuted under the telecommunications act. which states it is unlawful to use a conveyance to harass. intimidate, yada yada yada.
The Police will act if someone dies, and that's about it, even then it's because the media is going to blow it sky high.
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Cupie, there is no question in my mind that evil is real - I have seen it. I've dealt with people who have so much evil in them that it outweighs any fragment of good.
I've also dealt with people who were genuinely mentally ill.
I think the problem is partly this perception that mental illness equates to something morally off-kilter - what we call amorality as well as immoral. That is, someone who feels no hesitation in and no remorse about harming others, and has shut off his/her conscience so as to hear no alarm bells ringing when harmful behaviour is contemplated or carried out - that's someone who is amoral. (It's not that the person doesn't know "right" from "wrong", but he doesn't FEEL it - it's primarily a learned knowledge that doesn't affect him emotionally.) He is above all a selfish person - he does not consider the needs and wants of others - he is dangerous. An immoral person is different in that he certainly feels the emotional ropes of "right" and "wrong", and very often part of what gives him pleasure is the deliberate breaking of those ropes. He knows and feels the signals that tell him what he wants or what he is doing is wrong - and he does it anyway. He's dangerous too, but he suffers the flip side of his desires as well. He may experience long periods of guilt; however, his overriding passion to do things that are harmful break through his overt moral principles.
Neither of these are what I consider "mental illness". Neither of these types cannot know and are completely unaware of what they are doing. They don't imagine that what they are doing has no consequences to their victim; they simply either don't care or exult in it.
Mental illness is a different animal.
Different ambience entirely... as I know you know.
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He is above all a selfish person - he does not consider the needs and wants of others - he is dangerous.
Try " SHE ", in many of the cases & people I investigated, it was predominately female members who delight in their games, and in one or two cases, I would say " Mental Instability " is a governing factor.
Often brought on by a severe does of misandry, many of these old biddies rely on the " Female Factor " of forums, to be able to garner support for their lies against their victims.
The males involved, I have found, suffer from inferiority complex, or small man syndrome, and have found the one device they can feel superior in, and that is the internet. That is why they go to so much trouble to cover their tracks, for fear of being caught by the victim, and suffering physical retribution for their dirty deeds.
They do it because they can, and there is next to no chance of being caught by the law.
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Thanks for that Countessa. Very informative. :professor: