Oz Round Table

The Oz Round Table boards => The Round Table => Topic started by: *CountessA* on March 23, 2010, 10:04:32 AM

Title: Shill Bidding - covered under the UK Fraud Act
Post by: *CountessA* on March 23, 2010, 10:04:32 AM
It can now be confirmed that, certainly in the UK, shill bidding on one's own eBay items in order to increase the price is prosecutable under the Fraud Act.

I refer you to http://www.halesowennews.co.uk/news/5076044.Nationwide_Ebay_empire_of_dodgy_goods_ran_from_Rowley_Regis/

Quote
Jason Messenger pleaded guilty to nine counts of possessing goods with a false trade mark for sale and two counts of fraud. He also admitted falsely bidding on his own items to drive up the price – known as "shill bidding" or "shilling" on eBay – and was prosecuted under the Fraud Act.

Title: Re: Shill Bidding - covered under the UK Fraud Act
Post by: tellomon on March 23, 2010, 01:35:33 PM
"NAILED!" *SNIPE*
Title: Re: Shill Bidding - covered under the UK Fraud Act
Post by: *Yibida* on March 23, 2010, 02:15:35 PM
Quote from: tellomon on March 23, 2010, 01:35:33 PM
"NAILED!" *SNIPE*

" and SNAILED!"
Title: Re: Shill Bidding - covered under the UK Fraud Act
Post by: Philip.Cohen on March 29, 2010, 03:52:12 PM
Of course “shill” bidding (ie, undisclosed vendor bidding) is fraud, and it always has been fraud!

Seriously, how can anyone think that the making of a false representation for the purpose of gaining an advantage can be anything but fraud? Even under the common law such activity would be fraud. The relatively new UK Fraud Act 2006 simply makes clearer what admittedly was so absurdly ambiguous in the old Sale of Goods Act.

The problem, however, will always be the proving of shill bidding without the cooperation of the auctioneer, when unscrupulous organizations such as eBay benefit from such criminal activity and do effectively nothing proactively to stop it.

A Summary of Statute Law on (Shill Bidding) Fraud: US, UK, AU, at
http://www.auctionbytes.com/forum/phpBB/viewtopic.php?t=24316
Title: Re: Shill Bidding - covered under the UK Fraud Act
Post by: ernest_price on April 24, 2010, 11:41:55 AM
After the last few days UK shilling issues there may be a little less of it going on in Australia this week. Reading the quotes from the UK case the guy really had no idea. The quote from eBay that they have 'taken action' over the last year or so to remove the shill risk was quite amusing - considering removing bidder names has probably driven such an increase anyway!

Title: Re: Shill Bidding - covered under the UK Fraud Act
Post by: tellomon on April 24, 2010, 11:45:19 AM
According my research, the day eBay implemented "Hidden Bidder ID", shilling SKYROCKETED.
Title: Re: Shill Bidding - covered under the UK Fraud Act
Post by: Philip.Cohen on April 24, 2010, 12:18:13 PM
And for anyone interested generally in the matter of rampant shill bidding fraud by unscrupulous professional sellers on buyers, criminal fraud that I believe I can demonstrate is being knowingly encouraged and criminally facilitated by eBay, and the damage that that can only be doing to the eBay platform, do see my introduction thereto at
http://www.auctionbytes.com/forum/phpBB/viewtopic.php?p=6502877

Is it any wonder the eBay Marketplace is, relative to other ecommerce, still going backwards, at an ever increasing rate?

Donahoe/eBay/PayPal: Dead Men Walking
Title: Re: Shill Bidding - covered under the UK Fraud Act
Post by: tellomon on April 24, 2010, 12:40:29 PM
I'm with Mr. Cohen on this one!
Title: Re: Shill Bidding - covered under the UK Fraud Act
Post by: *Yibida* on April 24, 2010, 01:47:04 PM
Quote from: Philip.Cohen on April 24, 2010, 12:18:13 PM
And for anyone interested generally in the matter of rampant shill bidding fraud by unscrupulous professional sellers on buyers, criminal fraud that I believe I can demonstrate is being knowingly encouraged and criminally facilitated by eBay, and the damage that that can only be doing to the eBay platform, do see my introduction thereto at
http://www.auctionbytes.com/forum/phpBB/viewtopic.php?p=6502877

Is it any wonder the eBay Marketplace is, relative to other ecommerce, still going backwards, at an ever increasing rate?

Donahoe/eBay/PayPal: Dead Men Walking


Phil I agree with most of what you say... but on one point I think paypal will survive...  sooner than you think they will have to conform to the same regulations every other financial institution in this country abides by, by their { paypal } own admission they stated they are the biggest online payment system, this statement alone will ultimately draw the attention of the regularity bodies { possibly as we speak } ..... paypals days are numbered operating as a rogue entity and draconian policies...{ BTW I will state right here and now I am no fan of Paypus }
Title: Re: Shill Bidding - covered under the UK Fraud Act
Post by: tellomon on April 24, 2010, 02:03:47 PM
Keelhaul the lot of those rotters!
Title: Re: Shill Bidding - covered under the UK Fraud Act
Post by: Philip.Cohen on April 24, 2010, 02:43:22 PM
Actually PayPal is about to start its journey to the bottom of the ocean, helped on its way by Visa. It's really just a question of who gets to the bottom first: PayPal or eBay.

PayPal sees little threat from Visa-CyberSource deal
http://www.reuters.com/article/idUSTRE63L61420100422

I am in the process of preparing a comment on this Reuters story; will publish it shorty.
Title: Re: Shill Bidding - covered under the UK Fraud Act
Post by: Philip.Cohen on April 24, 2010, 03:52:03 PM
Comment moved to new topic
Title: Re: Shill Bidding - covered under the UK Fraud Act
Post by: tellomon on April 24, 2010, 04:09:12 PM
Good on you, Philip!