Oz Round Table
The Oz Round Table boards => The Round Table => Topic started by: *cupie* on March 19, 2010, 09:43:10 AM
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This type of thing in a recession is just obnoxious and as usual rural people get 'the brunt' of it.....This is one of the reasons Mr. Rudd's hand outs should have been allocated to infrastructure instead....it's a bloody recession and these prawns are doubling prices?....Where does it end....who can afford electricity these days then?...what of pensioners living alone who now won't be able to afford heat in winter?...Glad I kept the old Kero Lamps....looks like in the 21st century we're all being forced back to the dark ages...wonder if they still make kero heaters?....lol
http://www.smh.com.au/environment/households-to-feel-pinch-as-price-of-power-soars-20100318-qifr.html
Households to feel pinch as price of power soars
BRIAN ROBINS AND PHILLIP COOREY
March 19, 2010
Household electricity bills are set to soar, rising by up to $918 a year by 2012-13, thanks to a combination of the federal government's planned carbon emissions trading scheme and a large spending program needed to improve network reliability.
The Independent Pricing and Regulatory Tribunal (IPART) said yesterday it has approved price rises of up to 64 per cent in total over the three years from 2010-11 until the end of 2012-13. Those living outside the main cities will bear the brunt of the increases.
The federal opposition said the determination should sound the death knell for the scheme.
''If Mr Rudd stubbornly persists in trying to force his new tax on Australian households, the Coalition will remain steadfast in its commitment to oppose it for a third time,'' the Coalition Senate leader, Nick Minchin, said.
But the Climate Change Minister, Penny Wong, noted that the majority - about two-thirds of the price rises - were due to increased network prices.
''It is up to the NSW government to explain the reasons behind these price rises,'' she said, adding that the scheme provided most households with compensation to help with the increased cost of living.
IPART said compensation would be inadequate. It claimed low-income households would receive $200 a year in compensation for the scheme's impact on power bills, which was short of the $300 a year by which it said the scheme would raise bills. Treasury says the scheme will raise bills annually by $120.
The state government said it was disappointed with the approved price rises, and said it would boost its assistance program for low-income households who are not able to afford the higher prices, offering to extend a rebate program.
In its preliminary decision released in December, IPART indicated that prices could rise by as much as 62 per cent over the three-year period so that the three electricity retailers - EnergyAustralia, Integral Energy and Country Energy - could finance capital spending programs running to billions of dollars.
About one-third of the price rises stems from the federal government's proposed carbon emissions trading scheme, IPART said.
EnergyAustralia customers' electricity bills will rise by about $754 over the three-year period if the scheme is introduced, or by about $448 if not. Integral Energy's customers will pay an extra $577 if the scheme is introduced, or $246 if it is not.
Country Energy, which provides all of rural NSW customers with their electricity, has been allowed to raise its prices by the steepest amount, with an increase of $918 if the scheme is introduced; otherwise, the rise will be $601.
Overall, Energy Australia customers will see prices rise by a total of 46 per cent, for Integral Energy 60 per cent, and for Country Energy 64 per cent.
Welfare groups have warned that the price rises will force many low-income households into ''energy poverty'', and they will not be able to afford to pay their bills.
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I just got my electricity bill this morning...$600... anyone got a contact to have my own private Nuclear reactor installed ?....
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$600 Yibs? :flash:
Mine is $340. And that is with one resident who is a heavy electricity user - up till very late every night with multiple PCs running as well as his large screen plasma etc etc
Do you have air conditioning? I imagine there will be a lot of big bills after the hot weather we've had recently.
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Not a problem Yib, I'll see what I can get.
That's a big bill. What you should do is take the fuses out of the fuse box before going to work & then whack them back in when you get home.
Leave the fuse for the fridge in as you don't want your Pepsi Max's warm.
If the bride complains get her a nice smooth rock about twice the size of a cricket ball. Wimen used rocks to wash clothing etc for thousands of years with great success.
There's nothing wong with a Moari Hungy & it wont take the bride long to dig the hole.
These are just a couple of suggestions to help lower electricity bills, I have more!
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Hotwater, fridges, freezers,air con and heaters are the biggest power products.....We're shutting down our second fridge, we don't have air con, and our hotwater is gas as is our hob and one oven/stove in the garage flat.....even so, my electricity still comes in around 360.00-400.00 per quarter...
A 60% increase on that will be nearly $600.00 dollars per quarter?...as I said, thank gord I kept the Old kero lamps...lol
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I just got my electricity bill this morning...$600... anyone got a contact to have my own private Nuclear reactor installed ?....
Hey Yibster , Smee Enterprises are the Australian agent for these http://www.guardian.co.uk/environment/2008/nov/09/miniature-nuclear-reactors-los-alamos
how many can In pencil you in for ?
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That's a big bill Yib. I'd say people are going to turn to solar more and more. What a pity it was privatised. I see no gain at all from that for the consumer. Only the opposite. There is no real competition and everyone is at the mercy of whatever price is put on it. Maybe we could all buy some kero lamps like Cupie and have log fires. Then the electricity companies would get way less money.
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This is disgusting. I am already seeing an increase in my electricity bills too... and I'm quite careful in my use of electricity.
It would be well worth starting a thread about how to save on your electricity and gas bills - strategies for lowering usage, suggestions about alternative power sources, etc.
I am sure we're already aware of the cost of "passive" power, when appliances are turned off but the power point switch is still on (so that the appliance is actually in passive mode, possibly with a light showing...). Turning off AT THE POWER POINT is one possible small saving.
Turning off lights as one leaves a room is another thing to keep in mind.
But of course... this doesn't address the issue of the government ripping people's incomes apart like a wild bear savaging a gazelle - but it seems clear that the general population have little say in this insane Carbon Pollution Reduction Scheme, and the forecast of rural areas being hit most by the price rises is FLAT-OUT CONTRADICTORY to the notion that those producing the highest CO2 emissions will be hit highest by the tax.
With the failure of international agreement on carbon emission at Copenhagen, this idea of capping such a small world player in carbon pollution as Australia is like blaming a mosquito bite for a man's death when he's been shot, strangled, burned, beaten, drowned, trodden on and run over.
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It must be electricity bill day. Have just got a bill for $471 (never been that high) and last one was $330.
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It must be electricity bill day. Have just got a bill for $471 (never been that high) and last one was $330.
Sorry but is that a monthly bill?
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Quarterly, but it has never been that high before.
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Thanks. That is a lot of money in Ringgit.
Let's just say at the current rate, I can pay about 40 months of electricity usage with A$471 in Malaysia. Thing might change very soon, as the government has planned to increase the rate.
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Hotwater, fridges, freezers,air con and heaters are the biggest power products.....We're shutting down our second fridge, we don't have air con, and our hotwater is gas as is our hob and one oven/stove in the garage flat.....even so, my electricity still comes in around 360.00-400.00 per quarter...
A 60% increase on that will be nearly $600.00 dollars per quarter?...as I said, thank gord I kept the Old kero lamps...lol
Cue I have evaporative cooling so it's suppose to be cheap to run, I have now turned off the second fridge as of yesterday, only one pc per person on now instead of all 8 at the one time, I have gas hot water so thats not a big deal cost wise, I'm also careful how many lights are on around the house, my usage on the bill is no great than it has been the last 12 months, I'm afraid it's just another grab for cash and buggger the comsumer...AGAIN.
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Rather than having a thread on how to adjust to the changes, maybe it would be better to have a protest or whistle blowers thread about these Environment toting capitalists?.....didn't we all expect that the Global Warming issue would turn into another capitalistic free for all?
I'm looking at it seriously as though we're being held to ransom for critical utilities....how many elderly can absorb this bill ?...and what of single parents trying to make ends meet etc etc etc.....do we all go communal again and pool resources?.....rebuild the old kero heaters or install wood burners?....I'm seriously considering it...I'm surrounded by nothing but forest....lol....so much for carbon reduction when we're reduced to sitting around a camp fire again eh?...lmao
Good job I kept me old stock saddle...if petrol gets prohibitive again, I can buy a horse and ride to town....lmao.
Back to the future - welcome to progress in capitalist society....
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BTW Yib...anything you have on stand by.....turn it off at the wall..i.e. TV's kitchen appliances, even computers....as Tess said, while they're sleeping, they are churning power
Thanks. That is a lot of money in Ringgit.
Let's just say at the current rate, I can pay about 40 months of electricity usage with A$471 in Malaysia. Thing might change very soon, as the government has planned to increase the rate.
Howdi Low....that sounds a lot more reasonable, than what we're being expected to pay....quite frankly the State Govts and the previous Federal Govt ignored all levels of infrastructure investment for over a decade, and here we are paying for it...the present Govt is too busy with handouts and stupid vote grabbing schemes like pink bats to put the money where it's needed e.g. upgrading electrical infrastructure .....I think politicians have the same disease (no matter which political persuasion)...it's called 'Cranial Rectal Inversion Syndrome'...lol
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Again our government is shafting the public..to Krudd (the megolomaniac) this scheme is his baby.. his 15 minutes of fame on the world wide stage and nothing more..we already know he has a bad temper and does NOT like to be told he is ever wrong, he won't back down from these sorts of policies.
The sad fact ultimately though is that the general Australian public is so Apathetic they willingly permit these occurances by sheer inactivity, and the government knows it..
No referendums, no debates.. they just tell Australia what they WILL do and smugly sit back.
Ask a broad selection of Aussies about this and the other internet issues our Government is foisting apon us to name a few and there will always be a vast majority that complain but then do nothing about it.
IN other countries when outreageous practices are put forth, they speak up, they march in the streets they protest long and loud..
But hey.. let someone else do it eh?
Interesting article in the daily telegraph - http://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/ipromise/kevin-rudd-is-living-in-a-dream-world-building-an-imaginary-empire-nobody-wants/story-fn55yw9h-1225842566187 (http://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/ipromise/kevin-rudd-is-living-in-a-dream-world-building-an-imaginary-empire-nobody-wants/story-fn55yw9h-1225842566187)
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Yeah Liisa...ya gotta love the French....they tried to impose Industrial laws over there and the youth hit the streets and rioted....I think it was industrial....anyway, the Govt didn't get to impose whatever it was....
The sentiment you're expressing has been expressed by others...In Michael Moore's Documentary entitled 'Sicko', they interview an English bloke who helped establish the Universal Health Care system in England...he posed the theory that the people had much more power than they realised and if they would only rise up, they'd win against any tyranny imposed on them by Govt sanctions or legislation. This was further extrapolated by John Pilger in his doco...The War on Democracy.
He presented the coup against Chevez, and the uprising of the people of the Barios who stormed the palace and demanded that their president be returned...That doco speaks of 'the power of the people'....Here's a link, can't really open it on dial up but if you have broadband you could watch the whole doco...it is very interesting...and has won several awards.
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-3739500579629840148#
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I'm afraid it's just another grab for cash and buggger the comsumer...AGAIN.
Yid this is why all the state goverments (labour) sold the electricty grid, prices had to rise and state governments did not want the blame for old stations and old distribution networks. It also allowed the feral governement ( high taxes labour a new "pretend geen tax"). To save electricty and gas, gas will rise as well, INSULTATE FIRST in number order below. Heating and cooling is 70 / 80% of most house holds energy use. Firstly ONLY heat or cool rooms when occupied.Hot water small unit, unless solar or off peak. Solar hot water the cheapest way to save energy. Off peak electricty will be cheap for a long time excess capacity in electricty during off peak. Cold water clothes ect wash obviously.
1.Seal all doors and windows with stick on felt and door /window seal closers most windows can be double glassed using 2 mm poly cabonate on the inside. Small 3mm rubber bead with wipe of clear silicon, to stand off glass and wood bead glued / nailed to tidy up. BATTS in celling and foil if not installed.
2. Floor length curtains with pelments, curtains closed when heating or cooling. DO NOT use Air con when outside temp below 10C for heating.
3. External Doors if hollow core (many are) insulate or replace.
4.Stars on fridges, frezers or Air cons mean little. Just buy the smallest unit you can live with and even a second small unit for chrismas guests, the few times a year needed.
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If you're interested in seeing the 'sicko' documentary the link is below...I love Michael Moore....his humorous sardonic approach is hilarious and yet hard hitting...is he a modern day philosopher?...crusader of the 'average blokes' rights?...The doco demonstrates just how hard the Americans have it when it comes to something as vital as health care...If they can't pay...too bad....I hope Obama wins the fight for Universal Health Care for Americans.....it's a good fight...everyone should have access to medical treatment, no matter what their income. What are we coming to as a society when we can actually put a price over access to life saving treatments or vital resources?...
http://topdocumentaryfilms.com/sicko/
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You have some good tips there shyer, most of your suggestions I have already implemented over the years, my consumption hasn't changed much over the years, only my water consumption has increased due to the offspring growing up and needing more showers often, this I can accept, the power increase is harder to swallow based on my usage now and in the past...
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Go solar?
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Great Tips Shyer, all of which I have already implimented and my young son has a blanket I made him myself for the couch for the times when he is feeling chilly and I am not, rather than using a heater it makes sense on those not so cold days.
What peeved me more than anything the summer before last I was on vacation, my large inground pool had recently been decommissioned so the filter was not running, no one home, all standby items were unplugged, only the essentials IE: fridge and security alarm were on.
I returned and a month later got an electricity bill way higher than the previous..when queried the alleged increase was put down to "did I have guests?" No I was away.."A house sitter?" No, no one.
I asked for a meter reading printout.. and was fobbed twice, I insisted and was finally told they occassionally do a "guestimate" based on previous readings...OH REALLY...if that was the case I argued and i expressed my distain for such an underhanded practice.. then WHY was the bill a good 12% higher???
They had no clue..I pressed the point long and hard and had it reduced, to date and I often work from home I have NEVER seen a meter reader.
So How are they allowed to get away with this practice of "guestimation" something that to my knowledge is now the norm..how are they getting accurate usage readings and not ripping consumers off.
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my consumption hasn't changed much over the years, only my water consumption has increased due to the offspring growing up and needing more showers often, this I can accept, the power increase is harder to swallow based on my usage now and in the past...
http://www.showertimer.com.au/purchase.html (http://www.showertimer.com.au/purchase.html)
Solar hot water can pay itself back in under 4 years in some house holds.
While link above is over $300 installed it takes a while to recoup money, it is a price reminder. for the wasters 10 minutes is all any one needs unless you fell into a septic tank and did not hose off outside. I live on a farm and do not need timer, I just turn pump off after 10 minutes.
I also dock pocket money 50 cents for each light I turn off and 50 cents for EACH 15 seconds the fridge frezer or outside door is open over 15 seconds. All any of the family has to do is walk past and start counting.
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Oh Liisa...that's an old practice....we've had the same meter reader for years and for all these years my property has been fully fenced, with huge gates....In the past the meter reader simply rang the bell, but Integral brought in a rule where if they didn't have access, they didn't have to read the meter.....So...you have to sign up for a self read and make sure you get the reading in on time or they do an 'estimated bill'.....It's usually at least double what the normal bill is....
I've had this happen also, and have argued that they have no legal right to impose a bill and then final notice for services that have not yet been rendered...cheeky bugga's.
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Hi Cupie, yes I knew about the access policy, however I have no front fence, and you can see the meter box from the street, walk right up to it and voila..no killer pit bulls, no barbed wire, no minefield, not even a potplant stands in the way of the meter reader and the box, so what is their excuse lol
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$700 power and water bill for the quarter, living in darwin u need aircon this time of the year or everything just goes mouldy, plus fans running all the time plus need to keep everything in the fridge, being robbed by the govenment. told or should i say force to limit power and water so big bussiness can waste it, they get it alot cheaper than i can, plus with the new gas plant in darwin we still cant get gas for our own power, oops gave it all to china, darwin still uses alot of diesel for its power, crazy with all the gas we have , power should be free or maybe before we gave china our gas we should of said we also get what we need since it was our gas, as for my water cost it rains that much up here for half the year but even though the population is 10 fold still no new dams lets just let it all run into the sea, governments are not allowed to build dam ect anymore it all has to be privitised
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I'd imagine that your meter reader decided to take an early mark on a Friday, missed your meter and put in an estimated bill instead...they can be bloody arrogant when you ring them to sort it out...my advice, DON'T put up with the CSR's, ask for a manager...anyone under that will muck you around....I went above the billing section even....they're arrogant pigs as well.....When I finally got to a manager and asked why I was being threatened for twice what I actually owed, when our meter reading had been sent in but returned for being a day late?...lmao...he fixed it quickly and gave me a fax number to send my future readings......
I think monopolies like this get really arrogant because they can....no competition...
HI Ted...you're right....in decades no new damns have been built anywhere even though the population has doubled.....Cranial rectal inversion syndrome as I said...lol
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Estimated meter usage - pfffft. I taunt in their general direction. The meter readers ignore huge A3 signs on doors, refuse to collect the key from next door to access the meter when no one is there, and create incredible War-and-Peace-length estimations that are eleven times the actual usage.
And the company issuing the bills refuse to take any responsibility for this, and for repeatedly sending demands for payment even after having had the correct meter reading information made available.
The Ombudsman has unfortunately had to hear from me many times. At LEAST 12 times, the Ombudsman's office has rung the company to deal with it, and every time the company promises it will not happen again, and ... it does. (And that's not even mentioning the incomprehensible demands for a many-thousands-of-dollars bill owed by the previous owner. It's eight years ago, and we still periodically receive these demands, plus three times having a company rep come demanding to have access to disconnect the gas or power until the bill is paid. It's almost as though they're a document that was saved just before they acknowledge that it is not our bill... and something happens... and they revert back to that saved document.)
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These companies and others get away with it.. all too often..because they can..they LOVE apathy.
The small percentage of people that do compain become an even smaller percentage when they are hit with doublespeak, legalese and beaurocratic red tape.. most of which is NOT legal but they (the corporations) make it a minefield to negotiate so many give up.
I NEVER give up, I will not be gouged, I will not be fobbed off lol, my friends and family know this and when they have issues they get ME to call lol.
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Hey Liisa, are you on Facebook?
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Liisa, don't complain too loudly about your meter estimations. In Vic we've just had compulsory 'smart meters' installed which we have to pay for! And gee whiz, when the installer came we also got a glow-in-the dark fridge magnet - will come in handy next time we have a blackout!
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i jumped on the solar panel rebate while kevin 07 was giving it out so i paid nearly $10k and keven07 paid $10k so now got nearly $20k worth of solar panels and so far making me $1 a day,(is wet season to so getting alot of cloud) going to take awhile to make the money back but had to do it while kev was helping out, i hope he helps out more of the little people when it comes to solar panels
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i jumped on the solar panel rebate while kevin 07 was giving it out so i paid nearly $10k and keven07 paid $10k so now got nearly $20k worth of solar panels and so far making me $1 a day,(is wet season to so getting alot of cloud) going to take awhile to make the money back but had to do it while kev was helping out, i hope he helps out more of the little people when it comes to solar panels
Ted.... that was when Kev was in Global warming mode and was going to save all humanity... since the Global warming bubble has been partially deflated don't count on him helping out with saving the planet contingency's... let along the little people...
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i need about 4x the solar panels i have got to get no power bill lol but no way i can afford that, please keven 07 help me save the planet and give people jobs make and install cheaper solar panels, really $20k = 6 panels and inverter install cost ect , very expencive would never have done it without that rebate
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There is hope for much cheaper, more efficient solar power in the near future. I was listening to an interview on the radio the other day about a team from RMIT Uni that has developed a modified solar cell system that costs a lot less and produces more power.
I'll see if I can find an article about it.
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here it is:
http://www.gizmag.com/cuess-solar-panel-photovoltaic/14507/
http://www.heraldsun.com.au/news/victoria/cheap-solar-on-the-way/story-e6frf7kx-1225840408871
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(http://i146.photobucket.com/albums/r271/rontello/ODD%20Stuff/mow-cycle.jpg)
(http://i146.photobucket.com/albums/r271/rontello/July%204%2009/005.jpg)
The similarities are astounding!
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ded post ....
(http://i44.tinypic.com/1zlfblj.jpg)
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What these clowns aren't telling you is that our bills have already increased substantially in the past six months...These huge bills you're getting now are evidence of that........this new increase is what's to come....(on top of that)....scary ha?.....
I'm deadset investigating how much hassle it will be to install a fireplace on the top or bottom floor...don't care which....we are completely surrounded by trees that many people have to remove to build and then they're stuck with the wood if they don't install fireplaces....hell, they fall down in the bush just outside the door...lol....many people swap fire wood for beer or something else....but firewood is everywhere down here...if they force us back to basic survival, then screw em....we'll just have to survive...lol
Anyone know anything about installing a fireplace in a two story building?....can you take the flu out and up ?.....on the outside? like the old chimneys? don't want to punch through both floors to install a flu.
Oh, and another older technology is 'wet backs'...no...not the unPC kind....but a copper tank that sits behind a fire place, and which is fed by an external water tank...when you light the fire, you have free hot water.....best to have the bathroom backing onto the fireplace....for this to work....lol
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I'm thinking about creating an isolated electrical circuit in the house that will drive fridges and air con - and powering it with a fuel generator. P.A.Y.Use, you might say. Fridges only need to run 2 hours / day to maintain cooling. Our last bill was a shade under $1000.
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Hi Loco....I reckon it's the old engineering technologies that are going to come in handy as fuel rises.....I was thinking generator too because many farms in the old days used to generate power that way....when it was needed...not all day long....
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Perhaps the way of the future is to hire very fit cyclists to sit there, peddling away and generating the required electricity...
No... There'd be a cycling tax. GCT, they'd call it...
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LOL....
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Now there's a really good idea! Energy transfer from the waistline to the powerpoint. Reckon I could supply that for a while. ;D
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Fridges only need to run 2 hours / day to maintain cooling.
So if....I put a timer on the power cord, I can get the same action?
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Hi there Cupie, we are wood burners and very happy. Some disjointed thoughts on the subject are:
They're really cheap to buy 2nd hand out of Melb, Syd, where wood is just too much hassle now. We bought a "saxon" to heat 35 sq's off ebay for $500, (instead of BBQS galore $2750) flue etc included. A hearth can be bought or built for around $150 or less. Our model only has to sit 150 mm from the wall.
If you were to install one in a double story house, I guess the assumption is "hot air rises" so most likely downstairs. Open fires are not economic but some of these newer glass fronted models burn very efficiently. Remember they do run a fan. Triple skinned flues are the go. (internal copper, then a full skin, then a decorative outer,) they seem to be able to install them in lots of places, through rooves, out through the back etc. lengths are available by the metre.
We don't buy wood because we live on a farm. Prices around here (Central Vic, Bendigo) are about $105 per cubic metre, delivered, split, stacked. Be careful buying by the tonne or metre.
We would burn about 10 metres a year. We burn yellow/grey box and red gum. They all have their own qualities but we prefer these species. A chainsaw costs about $1000 and then you have to use the thing, split, stack and actually keep the thing burning all night. Another thought is make sure its big enough to put a log on at 10 pm and still be going at 7 am when you get up. It can be a pain in the neck if you have to go back to kindling and relight in the morning.
DSE are the mob in charge here. A permit costs about $160 for 6 metres in the bush and as of this year you are only allowed to collect "green" wood, so you need to be a year in front from now. Apparently its to stop theft. There are great discounts on those prices for anyone holding a concession card. I have also heard it wont be long before DSE require you to complete a chainsaw course to be able to buy the permit.
I still have a couple of kero heaters in my shed, but they arent efficient anymore with the price of kero.
We love our fire, sit round it like a telly as a family and wouldn't change that for the world.
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I loves me Designer Firewood!
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The other half has been bugging me to get a log burning heater for yonks, I keep putting it off, I can't be bothered cleaning the ashes out of it on a regular basis, but I'm starting to like the idea of sitting in front of it with my legs up toasting me footies....LOL
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Yib - You can get an electric one..... no ash. Same applies to gas. All the beauty less the soot!
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Yeh Loco I mentioned that to her but she wants the real thing...anything else wouldn't be the same she recons.....
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Tell you what Yib..... ask her if she likes interior painting.
Oh - and Tello
So if....I put a timer on the power cord, I can get the same action?
In the words of a famous American...... "Yes you can". - But defrost your fridge first. Freezers don't have the same problem, as long as opening and closing is kept to a minimum.
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Nothing like the 'REAL' thing...thanks golden I'll take that under advisement...lol...but wood around here?...bugga the licenses, we know enough people to get donations....trees every bloody where....and yet we can't afford to heat the whole house in winter...it's too expensive on LPG...so why not burn wood that's lying every bloody where......lol...and you're right...don't know WHY I didn't build a fireplace in from the beginning...
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Yib...if you're single story...ya have no excuse mate...winters coming...get crackin.....I like the glass cased ones too...easy to clean..fairly modern..no excuses....lol
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Yib...if you're single story...ya have no excuse mate...winters coming...get crackin.....I like the glass cased ones too...easy to clean..fairly modern..no excuses....lol
I'm glad she doesn't read these / your posts... she'd be bustin my chops now to go look at some tomorrow !....LOL
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come on now...i'm double story...much more bullshit involved....but I can tell ya...I'm aiming for just that...not more bullshit, but some kind of wood burning fireplace....can't afford the LPG over winter..it's huge....compared to summer, where we open the doors and windows and enjoy the N/easter...
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While you're looking at these things tomorrow.. ;D Check out the four sided glass models. They are beautiful..... and the heat.... you'll have to turn of the air conditioner to cool the place down. Where we are, the local council is paying a rebate to people who remove them. Not much chance of a positive building application here.
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I can't be bothered cleaning the ashes out of it on a regular basis ....LOL
Wood burners kick ash!
Gardens love it.
You can spice up the kitty litter box with it for added odor control.
Sop up spilled gravy. Start a Barroom brawl with a dash in yer Mate's Schooner.
Blind your neighbours with a handful cleverly concealed in your breast pocket.
Keep it on hand when Government Officials come to the door. You know how anal they are about shiney, polished black shoes.
DON'T BE A WUSS.
DON'T BE AN ASHHOLE!
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You' are right, the new models burn clean and really only require cleaning out coals a couple of times per year. Much more efficient.
If you're an organised person Cupes and can get on top of your woodpile its really easy. It's when you don't seem to know where to get wood, you get behind and it all seems a hassle when there is no need to be like that. As you say, most people need to cut trees and then pay for their removal, how stupid, when there's other people willing to go get it, take it home and win, win.
Yibs you may mention to the boss, the only model you can find comes with it's own "luuurrvvveee rug"
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I guess a few of us technical types had better start a thread to blow some of the power/energy myths out of the water.
There is so much headspinning bullshit on solar energy, carbon emission, alternative power sources and scams to rip people off in the guise of 'saving the planet, security, protection, safety' but in reality they are plots to control the masses and to deprive them of their will to resist the march to a 'NEW WORLD ORDER'.
You may think that Poddy has flipped his lid but have a closer look at what schemes have been tried to be forced down our throat.
the seeds have been sown already to have each human being 'chipped' so that they can be geolocated.
What ever happened to the basic right to privacy?
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survival interceded....lol...winter is cold...golden..I'm taking notes....and I reckon I can make sure me woodpile is fully stocked...wood every bloody where...lol...so much so..ya can't see the forest for the trees....or is that Canberra?
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Well Poddy - I for one don't think you're nuts!
Internet filtering here - in the US, The Fourth Amendment is virtually gone from what I read. (Tello might be able to help here on significance)
Health Care here - Same priority in the US - Pity Mr Obama can't make it.
Ray Stevens put this pretty well.....
http://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=ray+stevens+we+the+people&search_type=&aq=1 (http://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=ray+stevens+we+the+people&search_type=&aq=1)
ETS - Will it or won't it get up..... needless to say, increases in power and water pricing.... indirect taxation?
And - basic rights..... What is happening to basic freedoms?
I read quite some while ago about celebrity parents 'microchipping' their kids to assist in their recoveries if kidnapped.
Very hard to trust the people causing these things to occur
And Cupie - mightn't hurt to ship a few sticks to Canberra - but timber wasn't quite what I had in mind.
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I guess a few of us technical types had better start a thread to blow some of the power/energy myths out of the water.
There is so much headspinning bullshit on solar energy, carbon emission, alternative power sources and scams to rip people off in the guise of 'saving the planet, security, protection, safety' but in reality they are plots to control the masses and to deprive them of their will to resist the march to a 'NEW WORLD ORDER'.
You may think that Poddy has flipped his lid but have a closer look at what schemes have been tried to be forced down our throat.
the seeds have been sown already to have each human being 'chipped' so that they can be geolocated.
What ever happened to the basic right to privacy?
Ya dead right Poddster...and when we're old and decrepard and outlived our usefulness we have Soylent Green to look forward to and feed the masses with whats left of us.... LOL... errr.. now I'm depressed...
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(Tello might be able to help here on significance)
The Fourth Amendment to the United States Constitution is the part of the Bill of Rights which guards against unreasonable searches and seizures. The amendment specifically also requires search and arrest warrants be judicially sanctioned and supported by probable cause. It was adopted as a response to the abuse of the writ of assistance, which is a type of general search warrant, in the American Revolution. Search and arrest should be limited in scope according to specific information supplied to the issuing court, usually by a law enforcement officer, who has sworn by it.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fourth_Amendment_to_the_United_States_Constitution (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fourth_Amendment_to_the_United_States_Constitution)
It's the DON'T FLOCK WITH ME OR I'LL BUST YOU UP rule.
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(Tello might be able to help here on significance)
The Fourth Amendment to the United States Constitution is the part of the Bill of Rights which guards against unreasonable searches and seizures. The amendment specifically also requires search and arrest warrants be judicially sanctioned and supported by probable cause. It was adopted as a response to the abuse of the writ of assistance, which is a type of general search warrant, in the American Revolution. Search and arrest should be limited in scope according to specific information supplied to the issuing court, usually by a law enforcement officer, who has sworn by it.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fourth_Amendment_to_the_United_States_Constitution (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fourth_Amendment_to_the_United_States_Constitution)
It's the DON'T FLOCK WITH ME OR I'LL BUST YOU UP rule.
Dude wanna type up an Aussie version for us... we could use something like that over here...
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Loco, the problem is the 'We The People' have not fully awakened as yet and WE are being actively discouraged not to even think of awakening.
It is taught in schools and through the media, DUMB IS GOOD, all else is a conspiracy theory.
We, collectively have been fed on so much bullshit and been kept in the dark for so long that we now have almost metamorphosed into mushrooms.
if a person was to use just a tiny fraction of their basic intelligence they would realise that no amount of taxation is, for instance, make it rain more to alleviate the so called 'water shortage'.
The only extra moisture will occur is tears from over taxation.
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Tello, I think your 5th ammendment went out the window when the Homeland Security Bill was rushed through and passed ..................BASTARDS
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Yib..... We did - once upon a time.
Around the time of the US Patriot Act - there were some serious changes here too. This wee bit was in vogue - "search and arrest warrants be judicially sanctioned and supported by probable cause." It was changed from a warrant issued by a court - to reasonable cause - under the control of the Police. They now have the ability (and powers) to search you, your premises as they wish - based on reasonable suspicion. They also have the ability to question or detain - if in they believe you may be conducting a 'terrorist' related activity. The twenty-four hour detention limitation without charge vanishes under these circumstances.
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Loco...I'm not up with all the National laws stuff...seeing I'm a law abiding citizen I never worry about these sort of things... LOL
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Tello, I think your 5th ammendment went out the window when the Homeland Security Bill was rushed through and passed ..................BASTARDS
I heard: The Homeland Security bill was written up and in the can BEFORE 911.
Sneeky bastards!!!!!
New World Odor stuff, ya see?
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Loco...I'm not up with all the National laws stuff...seeing I'm a law abiding citizen I never worry about these sort of things... LOL
First they took the chickens, and no one helped them.
Then they took the Jews, and no one helped them.
When they come for YOU, there won't be anyone to help.
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Yib - I'd like to think we all are here.... but under the new law, even law abiding individuals can easily come unstuck. I believe that we all have very much to worry about under the new criteria. 'Reasonable suspicion' can be created by an anonymous complaint made by any individual. The AVO laws are just one example - where neighbourhood disputes are concerned. Someone rings and makes a complaint that you were seen with a gun in your house..... and look out.
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That's called "Dropping a Dime".
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And - off topic.... on a really sad note: Fess Parker died today. I grew up with this bloke.
Daniel Boone
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WhYRDPG8Mu0 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WhYRDPG8Mu0)
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yes the government seems to have forgot that they work for us, for years now they have believed we work for them, and how can they squeeze every last cent out of us. its about time they got a reminder and for them to stop giving this country and its minerals away
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And you all realise of course IF the Clean Feed Bill is passed we could be blacklisted for being radicals
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That's absolutely right.
I read today that Youtube has told the Australian Government that it won't restrict it's content here. Youtube notes that most of the restrictions apply to political comment. They argue in favour of freedom of speech.
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I'm afraid it's just another grab for cash and buggger the comsumer...AGAIN.
Yid this is why all the state goverments (labour) sold the electricty grid, prices had to rise and state governments did not want the blame for old stations and old distribution networks. It also allowed the feral governement ( high taxes labour a new "pretend geen tax"). To save electricty and gas, gas will rise as well, INSULTATE FIRST in number order below. Heating and cooling is 70 / 80% of most house holds energy use. Firstly ONLY heat or cool rooms when occupied.Hot water small unit, unless solar or off peak. Solar hot water the cheapest way to save energy. Off peak electricty will be cheap for a long time excess capacity in electricty during off peak. Cold water clothes ect wash obviously.
1.Seal all doors and windows with stick on felt and door /window seal closers most windows can be double glassed using 2 mm poly cabonate on the inside. Small 3mm rubber bead with wipe of clear silicon, to stand off glass and wood bead glued / nailed to tidy up. BATTS in celling and foil if not installed.
2. Floor length curtains with pelments, curtains closed when heating or cooling. DO NOT use Air con when outside temp below 10C for heating.
3. External Doors if hollow core (many are) insulate or replace.
4.Stars on fridges, frezers or Air cons mean little. Just buy the smallest unit you can live with and even a second small unit for chrismas guests, the few times a year needed.
Number 2 bothers me. It gets really freezing here in winter, so why shouldn't we used No 2?
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KRudd is very much like GWB i feel and is trying to follow in his footsteps, If you live or work in one of the tallest buildings in Sydney ..............be Afraid ............very afraid
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Yeah Lacey, I was wondering about no. 2 as well, the air con below 10 degrees bit.
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I'm not absolutely sure - but I believe it would be due to the outside unit icing up - and losing efficiency. Ever noticed when your air conditioner is cooling inside, the outside unit is blowing hot air? The reverse applies when you're heating inside your home.
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OK well sorry, it's sometimes get to minus here and that means a lousy 8 or 9 in this house..
I really need double glazed windows. Actually I really need a more weather friendly house. And I'm sure that as hot as this summer was, we can expect a winter as cold as any other, si i guess my AC will be running every morning.
A few years ago, some ppl we new wanted to build a new house but the council wouldn't let them unless they installed double glazed windows, batts, sarking or silver paper, and some stuffing that was sprayed in between the walls. They had an AC (reverse cycle) but never had to use it because it never got cold enough or hot enough in the house. She reckoned it was the best thing they could possibly have done and were very happy with the outcome.
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And - off topic.... on a really sad note: Fess Parker died today. I grew up with this bloke.
Daniel Boone
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WhYRDPG8Mu0 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WhYRDPG8Mu0)
He played Alan Crotty in THEM!
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0047573/ (http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0047573/)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X3RDdnCWPU4&feature=related (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X3RDdnCWPU4&feature=related)
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We have a section of our crimes act here Tello and Poddy that is never really discussed. Have a good read of every word and decipher what applies. Every citizen has the same rights as MOPF (members of the Police force).
http://www.austlii.edu.au/au/legis/vic/consol_act/ca195882/s458.html (http://www.austlii.edu.au/au/legis/vic/consol_act/ca195882/s458.html)
Back to topic we also have a reverse cycle which we use to cool, but also when you only need that heat from 8pm til late and not worth lightin the fire. We were told it wouldn't work under about 5 degrees, never has it iced up or refused to heat. We get down to about -5 degrees or so.
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golden - Same rights in the case of a 'citizens arrest'. Not so 'detain and search'.
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Yep you're right Loco, thats sorta what I was trying to point out, whether you call it citizens arrest or anything else, it's there for all of us, but we never get the knowledge spelt out to us. "Detain and Search" are 2 very different words, some apply to 458 some don't. "reasonable suspicion" or "reasonable grounds" are VERY ambiguous IMO, (ok if they find proof they were right) I hear what ya saying!
Yib - I'd like to think we all are here.... but under the new law, even law abiding individuals can easily come unstuck. I believe that we all have very much to worry about under the new criteria. 'Reasonable suspicion' can be created by an anonymous complaint made by any individual. The AVO laws are just one example - where neighbourhood disputes are concerned. Someone rings and makes a complaint that you were seen with a gun in your house..... and look out.
Fully with ya! will the JACKS charge em with making a false report??
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Fully with ya! will the JACKS charge em with making a false report??
Generally NOT. The content of the report includes the word "gun". That's enough to bring an immediate response. They'd probably check their 'persons of interest database', which includes all registered firearm owners - only to discover that he doesn't own a gun. Having arrived at Yib's home and interviewed him only to find that he was holding a plastic AK47 that he was using for a video game, they'd probably make contact with the complaining party to put their mind at rest. Yib is the person who is left shaken by the event.
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Irrespective of the law generally, I think that our Boys in Blue are so chronically under resourced in just about every area of this State, they physically CAN'T impose this kind of strong arming unless they've got time or specific reasoning...i.e. known crims etc.....lol....even so, without solid evidence to build a case against that person, they're not likely to pursue it at the expense of available man hours......
e.g. It takes 40 mins for police to respond to anything that happens in my region...that's how under maned, under resourced and lacking in proximity they are in terms of responding to real crime around our entire LGA.
It gets to the point where they have to pick and choose what they can and can't pursue based on man hours....and policing isn't like it used to be.....The police themselves are now under constant scrutiny and are required to be 'courteous' while arresting criminals...lol...if they screw up, the pressure is on them....
I think these new laws are designed more for specific search and seizure events where they know ahead of time who they want to focus on (i.e. it removes the need for police to pursue a search warrant)....but I know certain members here know the ins and outs of it all much better than I *winks*.......
I know what you're saying though Loco, you know the old saying Absolute power corrupts absolutely....just the fact that they can enter your home or search you on the street, is getting a bit OTT....
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Morning Cupie and Loco, just dropped in to let you know I'm off to fire the chainsaw up!! Always organised by Easter... thats the motto!!...
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Gonna have to get me one of them thar chain saws.....seems like a great way to relieve stress......The Fire Wood Chain Saw Massacre.....lol
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Where's me manners....Good Moaning Golden.....!!!! Good Moaning Loco...
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26 stitches across the knee last year.. so if you don't hear from me for awhile..... try A and E....lol... and that silly DSE mob think you need to complete a course in operating the thing... pffft...
I did get a new stubby holder from STIHL when I bought the thing, ya'd reckon they would have left instructions NOT to use both at once!
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I did get a new stubby holder from STIHL when I bought the thing, ya'd reckon they would have left instructions NOT to use both at once!
:lmao:
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Bluddy Hell! You're absolutely right Cupie!
Good morning everybody! (I'd forgotten it was morning already!)
And.... about chainsaws.... We bought a 52CC / 22" blade model off Ebay. Cost us $125 and about $50 postage. I've tried soooo hard to wear it out up the country.... all my efforts, fruitless. Wonderful machine at such a low cost. (FIL found the 62CC model..... same outcome.) They are a Stihl like unit.
GAWD Golden! Not a good result! (the one above was fitted with an anti-bounce chain)
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A similar model just sold at $75.50 + $49 postage! more listed to go soon.
http://cgi.ebay.com.au/PRO-62CC-22-BAR-CHAINSAW-CHAIN-SAW-TRIPLE-SAFETY-PACK_W0QQitemZ370351770828QQcmdZViewItemQQptZLH_DefaultDomain_15?hash=item563aaf8ccc (http://cgi.ebay.com.au/PRO-62CC-22-BAR-CHAINSAW-CHAIN-SAW-TRIPLE-SAFETY-PACK_W0QQitemZ370351770828QQcmdZViewItemQQptZLH_DefaultDomain_15?hash=item563aaf8ccc)
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Crikey that's cheap enough...I'd be wanting a known brand that has been approved for safety though....Injury is painful and inconvenient...best to be avoided....Listening Golden?....lol...put down the stubby and place both hands on the chainsaw...
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A known brand that's also made in China? ;D So close to a rebadged product that it's ridiculous.
Safety and chainsaws...... sort of akin to a 'friendly', housetrained tiger snake!
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LOL....who knows it could have been made in Korea....or Taiwan....lol
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Duzzzzen Maddder - as long as it fills the fireplace. From Golden's experience.... might also be an excellent carving tool for the lamb on the spit. I'll think about that.
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My suspicion is that some people will be huddling under doonas and blankets during winter, instead of turning on the heating which they will increasingly be unable to afford.
They will be moving around less as they sit there shivering.
I have little doubt some of these live in very poorly designed housing; the ones that can least afford the heating are going to need it most. Of course, the government could pay to have everyone's house "refurbished" to be better suited to the climate, with fewer "warm air escaping" chinks, but that's about as likely as anyone reading this turning spontaneously into a Brussels sprout.
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Good morning Countess,
I agree with your suspicion. These increases aren't going to be limited to heating / cooling at home. They'll also affect the price at the grocery store checkout... the petrol pump... probably right through to the cost of private health insurance. These things represent an excellent opportunity for unscrupulous companies or individuals to capitalise at the expense of those who have difficulty managing financially. But - they wouldn't do that.... would they?
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I'm not absolutely sure - but I believe it would be due to the outside unit icing up - and losing efficiency. Ever noticed when your air conditioner is cooling inside, the outside unit is blowing hot air? The reverse applies when you're heating inside your home.
Yes and no icing up is really bad can break unit if not turned off. Before you ice up air con becomes inefficient and a simple radiator is more efficient. Below 10 degrees depending on humidity and some times other factors. Air cons become less efficent than fan heaters radiators ect. Insulating and solar hot water while a capital cost soon not only pay for themselves they add value to the property.
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2. ........ DO NOT use Air con when outside temp below 10C for heating.
Air conditioners are a form of HEAT PUMP. They work by 'pumping' heat from one place to another. 'Reverse Cycle' means it can pump heat in either direction.
In summer, heat is pumped from inside your house to the outside. In winter, heat is pumped from outside your house to the inside.
In theory, as long as the side that heat is taken from is above absolute zero (-273oC) a heat pump can warm up the other side. In practice, there are a few things that complicate the situation.
The main factor is simple economics - the cost for a particular benefit. Unless you are into producing liquid nitrogen, you won't need a super duper cooling cycle so, to address typical domestic demands, your materials and design can be pretty straightforward. The air conditioning market (as does any market) has found the balance on price and performance - so if you want to find out more on that - just ask a consultant (and pray they know more than you...)
Now, in terms of the energy required, pumping heat is just like pumping water - you need energy to pump it 'uphill' and the greater the difference in levels, the more energy is required. So, if in summer it's 40o outside, and your air conditioner is set to 20o, it's going to be working harder than if it was set to 25o. Likewise, in winter, if its 10o outside and your air conditioner is set to 25o, it's going to be working harder than if it was set to 20o.
The basic rule is quite simple: The difference in temperature determines how much work has to be done to move a certain amount of heat.
One of the big pluses with a reverse cycle air conditioner is that on the heating cycle, under typical conditions**, you get more heat per unit of electricity than if you were to use an electric heater - ANY electric heater (includes fan heaters, bar radiators, column heaters, etc.) It is quite possible for an air conditioner to use 1500W of electricity and provide more heat than a 2400W heater. This is because the air conditioner is simply moving heat that already exists, whereas electric heaters are creating it from scratch.
** Typical conditions - don't you just know there are a couple of 'buts'.... (I'll just stick to the heating cycle, since there is a direct comparison to alternate forms of heating)
* The colder it is outside, the more work the air conditioner has to do to heat up inside which means more energy is required. I haven't done the maths, but there will be a point where the air conditioner could start using more electricity for the same heating as an electric heater ... though I expect that will be a pretty extreme situation.
* Icing up is also a problem, since it greatly reduces the amount of heat that can be absorbed. Remember that, as far as the heat pumping is concerned, the inside or outside temperature is the temperature of the inside or outside 'radiator' bit - and if its encased in ice.....
The icing up problem is one that many modern air conditioners can detect and, for a short period, work in the opposite direction to that desired, as a de-icing phase.
But the biggest issue by far is people trying to get their little air conditioner to work harder than it was ever meant to - either by setting the temperature too high (for warming) or too low (for cooling) and/or for a bigger area than the unit was designed for.
In short, if you don't hear the compressor cutting in and out every now and then ... and it's running continuously ... you are overworking it and it will work itself into the ground.
Other obvious things to pay attention to are curtains, insulation and all the other things already mentioned - to reduce the heat load the air conditioner has to deal with. Also, as stuffy as you may feel it will get, close off the air-conditioned zone. It is pointless to cool down a room on a hot day and to have a window open 'a crack' for some fresh air ... you are just allowing more hot air into the room which then has to be cooled down. The same principle applies to to winter warming.
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The modern insulation requirements for building go a long way in addressing the basic energy needs for comfort... but ever since I visited the Jenolan Caves many years ago, underground living has had its appeal.
I reckon the Hobbits got it right....
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v702/brumbymg/BilbosHouse.jpg)
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In theory, as long as the side that heat is taken from is above absolute zero (-273oC) a heat pump can warm up the other side. In practice, there are a few things that complicate the situation.
In practice with the refrigerants and pumps used the least cost cross over point, to heat to 25 when outside goes below 10 . Must be compared, some A/C units will still be cost effective below zero RARE, if you have free wood or cheap natural gas for instance cost effective point may even be at 15 degrees outside.
Two major issues make conventional ASHPs unattractive as a heat source in cold climates.
From
http://www.highbeam.com/doc/1G1-201031232.html (http://www.highbeam.com/doc/1G1-201031232.html)
And as far as pollutants go the A/C seemed very efficient as measured cooling or mild heating BUT then multiply the electricty used by 3. As 2/3 rds of electricty delivered is lost in manufacture excess heating and transmission loses . While natural gas for instance is cheap for some households and effective home efficiency can be over 90%
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There's a couple of bits of the maths...
I had no idea of real world numbers, but these suggest a detailed assessment is warranted in more circumstances than I had considered.
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PS if gas is available you will notice over 90% of commercial kitchens use gas even bottled LPG professional cooks prefer gas for 90% of heating for cooking. LPG is NOT a good home heating option.
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There was a discussion a while ago regarding the benefits of going solar. I was unaware of this situation affecting people on pensions. So much for recouping installation costs..... and attempting to save a few dollars while supporting the environment.
Kevin Rudd stings pensioners for going green
http://www.news.com.au/money/money-matters/kevin-rudd-stings-pensioners-for-going-green/story-e6frfmd9-1225858168868?referrer=email&source=Punch_nl&emcmp=Punch&emchn=Newsletter&emlist=Member (http://www.news.com.au/money/money-matters/kevin-rudd-stings-pensioners-for-going-green/story-e6frfmd9-1225858168868?referrer=email&source=Punch_nl&emcmp=Punch&emchn=Newsletter&emlist=Member)
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I'm dreading any possible price increase in cartons of Pepsi Max. They have already increased Pluto Pup prices.
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Maybe, with your consumption Ubb, you could be supplied by the factory for 'commercial' quantities....
Might have to make room for a couple of palettes at a time, though...
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Right, Ubb! Be an endorser of the goods!
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There's an idea...!!!
Ubb ... all you need is celebrity status through some means and you can promote Pepsi Max - with payment by way of the product !
Maybe Ubb can take up the lead on a new Ad campaign for Pepsi Max... After all they had the 'Solo man'.......
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SNIPE>>111..