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The Round Table / Re: Tales From The Narc Side
« Last post by tellomon on May 28, 2024, 01:36:54 PM »
When dealing with a narcissist, what happens if you refuse to play their games by refusing to give them any narcissistic supplies?

This happens, and this is something that confused the tf out of me for a minute, before I became aware.

<<<NARCISSISTIC RAGE>>>

I don't know about you but the word RAGE to me implies somebody losing their sh!t.

Ranting, screaming, yelling, out of control temper. That's what I always pictured whenever I heard this phrase. Not the cold, calculating, plotting contempt that I experienced from my ex.

He didn't express his rage this way. Instead, losing supply or facing rejection would make him go distant, he would use the silent treatment as an effective but deadly weapon, ghosting me for days, and then plot and scheme to get back at me later in weird ways that no one could anticipate unless their mind was as flocked up as his was, culminating in a nasty smear campaign.

His favorite game was plausible deniability. He was extremely intelligent and able to come up with a scenario that would make even the smartest person doubt their reasoning. His own personal way of letting his gaslighting freak flag fly. He knew how to target your areas of vulnerability with deadly accuracy, and was all the more dangerous for it.

It confuses you when you see someone being amicable and appearing friendly in their manner but saying words that are manipulative enough to mean two things. It can be difficult to recognize in that pattern of behavior the toxic shite coming out of their mouth.

If this is your situation…You are not crazy. Your gut instincts are not wrong. You're just with a manipulator like my ex that's been around for a bit and knows how to play most everyone.

Everyone but me anyways.

And now you.



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The Round Table / Re: Tales From The Narc Side
« Last post by tellomon on May 28, 2024, 01:17:22 PM »
I think that people very often demonize narcissists. Do you actually understand that narcissists are human beings who need love like anyone else?

I think you may find a lot of people on this site that tried to their very own self destruction to “love that narcissist” you speak off.

You will also find the same people huddled in these chat forums talking about the aftermath of what their “love” cost them in the process as that narcissist ripped them a new anatomical conundrum just for their trying to love them.

You will find those same people who literally are re-building their very own fabric of self and what they thought humanity and human beings were as they re-build their self esteem and worth through the process of un-flocking themselves from the mental and emotional bs games that narcissists play.

Humans - sure, we are all souls here, having a human experience.. some of us just choose a funny way of giving and receiving “love” you know, by destroying others humanity.

Either way, I wish no narcissist any harm, I just wish to not engage with one ever again and that is to save my very own human being-ness as the last one I met nearly drove me over the edge of that fine line of sane to insane.

But, each to their own, we all have a path that we choose.
___________________________________

Yeah I understand they are human beings. I've grown to understand they operate at a deficit, they are inhibited by their inability to see the person they claim to love. Narcissists are indeed burdened and like all of us, they did not ask for this life, but here we all are.

However, I'm autistic, what some might still describe as having aspergers, and at the time of meeting my first narcissist, I was undiagnosed and unaware of what made socialialsing so difficult for me.

I had just recovered from a period of isolation, something that had been periodically happening to me throughout adulthood, an autistic shutdown due to attempting to correct myself by socialising.

I'd agreed to go to a party with some seemingly well-meaning people, however I still found myself on the periphery of the party, the idle chit chat and usual back patting was going on. I knew I would only find myself stuttering while explaining my special interests, my special interest since my late teens has been anthropology.

Most people don't like discussing the material origins of what they believe to be their own unique decision, such as their choice of fashion or music taste. Most people don't like skeptics and I happen to operate from that perspective. I think it was Jarod Lanier that said “The critic only wants to suggest we improve”.

Anyway, alone by a big red candle I stood, when she first approached, a strange focus on her face, I could barely tell what it meant, such was my naivety. But she was beautiful, fair and beautiful - my lonely heart was immediately won.

I now understand, my willful exclusion was the first insight to my personhood, the first piece of the puzzle that would lead to my painful confusion, suicidal ideation and ultimately in hospital with years of recovery ahead of me. Our meeting did lead to my diagnosis, and insight to myself, and psychology of the self that will forever be invaluable to me.

Upon determining that I don't understand hints, I'm literal, and disguised sarcasm generally escapes me, the flood of memories concerning how she had treated me, how her brother had treated me, even the under-handed compliments from their mother - “you're stronger than you look” - utterly crushed me.

They used my goodwill against me, they intentionally confused me, even denying shared memories existed. My personhood, my special interests, things I'd explained in great detail to their lazy minds never happened, everything and anything was a product of their own excellence. The awful treatment traumatised me, perhaps parts of me are beyond repair, perhaps parts have become accentuated, it's still difficult for me to know.

Narcissists are burdened by loneliness, those who have been traumatised by a narcissist know a psychological burden akin to grief - it's very difficult to forget and because of that, it's very difficult not demonising their behavior in discussion.

Good luck.
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Don’t take this personally, but anyone who asks a question like this either has NPD or is just plain naive.

Understand this, there is much justification in the way someone feels who has been in a relationship with someone who has NPD, while at the same time there is no justification for the reason of the actions of the person with NPD that led to the person feeling this way.

What you are trying to convince others, is at the crux of why we can’t productively work on NPD tendencies. It has nothing to do with whatever love a person believes they can give another. This is where we have fooled ourselves. It is the biggest sham of existence.

The best anyone can do is to acknowledge and allow the love within another to be expressed. There is no giving or taking. If you do things in a way where you believe you are giving “love” to someone who has NPD, then you are in effect enabling their tendencies because they will only end up taking advantage of you. The best and only way to deal with people who have NPD is to not enable their tendencies. You do this by setting firm and consistently reinforced boundaries and not letting them take advantage of your kindness.

NPD or not, all anyone can do with regards to “love,” is to learn to love themselves and acknowledge and respect the love within others. You do not do this by allowing others to abuse you.


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The Round Table / Re: Tales From The Narc Side
« Last post by tellomon on May 28, 2024, 12:31:28 PM »
What does a narcissist want
after a breakup?


Ooooo. They want so much.

They want your tears, your heartbreak, your pleas to give you another chance. They want to wake up to pages of rants of texts so they can leave them unread. They want you to physically embody the chaos, sadness and destruction they feel inside. The more you do that, the more they feel satiated.

They want to triangulate you against their new love interest. The new interest is being used to whip you up into a frenzy. You’re being used for the narc to assess how easy a target the new supply is. Will their love interest get competitive and territorial (big tick for the narc) or will they have healthy boundaries and firmly remove themselves from the drama (big no for the narc).

They want to retain access to you. So that they can toy with you/ block you/ unblock you/ hoover you/ continue to elicit things from you they find useful.

They want you to not move on.

They want you broken/ depressed/ unable to operate. As that validates to them that their devaluation of you was justified and that you are the loser they said you were.

They want to be able to lose themselves in the idealisation cycle with the new supply.

This part (I think) is hard work for a narc. They’re masking, they’re on best behaviour.

But they want a hard dick and they want to feel powerful. So in the background the role you play is to continue to be on the receiving end of their devaluation. The only way they can mask adequately to ensnare the new supply is to be letting off steam elsewhere (aka with the supply they have broken up with).

Part of this may be to come back and have sex with the person they have just broken up with. Narcs are disgusting and like dogs in heat. They’ll have sex with anyone if it serves them. And having intercourse with multiple supplies can at times serve them. So they want to be able to love bomb their new supply ‘you’re amazing, I’ve never felt this connection with anyone’ <<cue best behaviour of breakfast in bed>>.

That night they’ll be bedding the ex supply who is sobbing in gratitude and begging the narc not to leave. They’ll leave and head straight back to the arms of their shiny new toy.

These people are so messed up and manipulative.
_______________________________________

The narcissist wants you to beg and plead for the relationshit to continue, chase him, you apologize for his habitual cheating and betrayals, call him crying distraught telling him you can't live without him and he's the best thing in this universe so that little fragile ego of his will boost up through the roof.

The narcissist wants confirmation that you're so devastated pining away over him while he's out having the time of his life (very short-lived) with you're replacement. HAHAHAHA yeah that's what the delusional clown wants you to do. F*ck the narcissist and what he wants, kick his sorry ass to the curb with a permanent no contact and never allow him entry back into you're life if he ever is that stupid enough (which alot of them are) to attempt to contact you.

Narcy no longer exists and a beautiful life is coming you're way.
_________________________________________

Depends on who did the breakup.

If they did, then very likely they do not want anything. They are enjoying their new supply.

If you did, then it could become a shitstorm.

They will be angry, frustrated, depressed, and all of it is going to be your fault. And they will make you very clear of that. And if they can not reach you, they will try to reach you via, old friends, family, Anybody that kind of relates to you will be notified of your terrible behavior, how toxic you have been. Some of it will reach you, some of them will actually start to blame you for all the misery your ex is going through, because, let's face it, he/she was a master of manipulation in the first place.

All the literature is very clear about it, let it go… let it go… stay silent, no contact, even if you hear the most horrible things said about you, or that he is almost on the verge of being suicidal (which he very likely is not, but he needs the drama). What you could do is analyze how many flying monkeys he/she has been able to create. That will be a nice list of people you also do not want to have in your life anymore. Eventually, it is all about your peace of mind and body.

F*ck them. And move forward.


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The Round Table / Re: Tales From The Narc Side
« Last post by tellomon on May 28, 2024, 11:56:24 AM »
MEMO TO: My loathsome Narc
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The Round Table / Re: Tales From The Narc Side
« Last post by tellomon on May 28, 2024, 10:40:30 AM »
Why do narcissists disappear
like you never existed?

This is actually a good thing when they disappear!

To answer your question the disappearing is part of their abusive, and manipulative tactic. They lie, manipulate, and devalue people to the point of no return. Their behavior is not accidental it is very calculated by means of controlling or intentionally hurting their victim(s) and allows them to feel dominant and in control of every situation and outcome. They disappear because they’re entertaining other narcissistic supply which in most instances is someone else.

They disappear because they become, and or see you as no longer useful. They disappear like you never existed, because for some they actually convinced themselves that you never existed. This is what they do, and there is no need to take it personally because whatever they do is driven by their personality disorder.

Disappearing is how they communicate to you that you don’t matter but (you do matter).

Disappearing is their way to communicate to you that they no longer want you (though they need you).

Disappearing is their way to communicate that they don’t care (they don’t).

Disappearing is their way to communicate to you that they have found someone with better resources (narcissistic supply).

Disappearing is their way to groom you to chase after them, think/obsess over them, and to remain trauma bonded to them.

Disappearing is their way to communicate indirectly that they are passive-aggressive and lack emotional maturity.

Disappearing is their way to communicate to you that they don’t know how to communicate effectively, and it is easier for them to just unbrotherly walk away as if you never existed.

They believe disappearing is okay, because they objectify people. They will undoubtedly play with the hearts of others like a toy as a way to regulate their inner demons. They disappear without a trace or warning, because they’re having an insatiable appetite or desire for something that is impossible to satisfy.

Now, back to it being a good thing of them disappearing will work in your favor in the grand scheme of things. It may not seem that way when they walk away without a trace, and you may be looking for an explanation or closure that you will never get.

This way they can come back to pick up where things left off as if nothing ever happened. Narcissists can be very self-centered, entitled, and believe it is beneath them to owe you an explanation, so it is just easier for them to disappear. Your search for answers and closure can lead to more pain and wasted energy.

Consider their disappearance a gift of escape from a psychotic breakdown, constant emotional torture, and a lonely existence! Troubled souls run from the truth. May you know the signs, may you not remain a victim, and may you do whatever you need to do to protect your emotional-mental health!


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The Round Table / Re: Tales From The Narc Side
« Last post by tellomon on May 28, 2024, 09:51:55 AM »

16900 Views

:banana:
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The Round Table / Re: Tales From The Narc Side
« Last post by tellomon on May 27, 2024, 02:10:58 PM »
Are there narcissists who are so far gone that they don't even know they're narcissists and perhaps even think their VICTIMS are the narcissists?

Yes

First off they are victims of narcissists.

Second the disorder is such that it is baked into their personality.

That’s why they call it a personality disorder.

It is a disorder to protect the victim (narcissist) from shame.

They don’t know they have it unless they are higher on the spectrum and self aware.

There are many who are unaware they are narcissists but aware of the abuse they inflict.

It is a maladaptive coping mechanism that was learned to survive the abuse from childhood.

Other people who have suffered under this abuse came out differently.

As a survivor myself of decades of covert abuse from psychopaths within my family I don’t have any idea why I’m so called “Normal” or neurotypical..

The psychological community has basically written off personality disorders as permanent accept for Borderline Personality Disorder.

If this has changed, I would like to know.

There are only a few who are trying to reverse this trajectory.

Follow Dr. Elinor Greenberg here if you’re interested in learning more about this.

It is their responsibility to do something about this mess and she is trying to do something about it.
____________________________________

Who narcissists say they are and who they are in reality never, ever is the truth.

Deep down they would know how evil they are, but they will never admit to that.

It serves them to gaslight us and project onto us.

If you are intent to keep someone your victim and have zero empathy inside you, would you not blame your victim for everything?

Stay safe and stay away from them please.
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Who you're describing are all over Quora and in life in general.

I've addressed this issue a whole lot and get alot of backlash from it from the so-called victims. these same victims actually know they're dealing with a disordered person and still want to do real physical harm to them. do a search on Quora for narc groups and you'll see names something like “how to hurt the narc”, “how to get revenge on the narc” etc. .

Who in their right mind wants to torture a disordered person? yet these people claim to be victims who are nothing like the narc who hurt them?

Yes, some narcs don't know they're narcs and some are called “lesser” narcs bc they know they're different and something is not right.
____________________________________

Very commonly, yes. Although some self-aware narcissists have the ability to see the situation from a more objective lens.

The thing with narcissists is, they are so self-centered and have such a dominating ego, that they really cannot, for the most part, see past their own ego and self-interests.

What this translates into, is someone who does not understand that there are people with interests, feelings, opinions, wishes, outside themselves.

And if they do catch glimpses of such things, they don't care enough to hold onto the realization. They fall back onto thinking, everyone and everything, is an extension of them. The narcissist is the center of all things.

So, for instance, if the narcissist is in a relationship and they have to make a single sacrifice, a single compromise, then they will see themselves as the victim, even if the partner has made 100 sacrifices, 100 compromises, for every 1 made by the narcissist.

The narcissist simply can't see past the “me, me, me".

There is no “we", just “me" or “you serve me".


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The Round Table / Re: Tales From The Narc Side
« Last post by tellomon on May 27, 2024, 01:44:24 PM »
What is the single most
dangerous aspect of being in a
relationship with a narcissist?

A narcissistic person is an unhealthy person, who does not view reality in a normal way. Being tied to one will ruin your life. It’s dangerous because life is precious.

1. They are often fearful,  ù a lot of fear and stress in the lives of their partners.

2. They often feel entitled to have their way. So they psychologically punish their partner until they get their way.

3. They are often fake, insincere, and able to lie easily. So there is never really honesty or trust with their partner.

4. They are very shallow, lacking in sensitivity which causes lack of intimacy, so the partner is very lonely.

5. They are often extremely controlling. So the partner eventually loses their identity and becomes a compliant robot in order to avoid conflict.

6. They are often very hierarchical in their thinking and relating to others, so they claim to be superior, and the partner feels inferior.

7. They are often bullies. So the partner becomes an emotional punching bag or whipping post.

8. They are often manipulative and everything they do has an “angle” that benefits them. So the partner is with someone who is not authentic or genuine
.
9. They are often self-referential, and unable to see others as individuals. So they make poor parents with bad boundaries, seeing their children as possessions or objects.

10. They often feel empty, like they can never get enough, they are never satisfied. So they make their partners feel empty too.

11. They often like to play the martyr when they do something for others. So they make the partner feel like they are obligated and owe them something.

12. They often have the emotional maturity of a 3 year old child. So the partner must become accustomed to violent temper tantrums.

13. They often choose a partner because of the partner’s assets or positive attributes. So the partner was never really loved, or even known.

14. They often insidiously devalue a partner, carefully and surgically. So, the partner begins to believe that they are rather defective over time.

15. They are often judgemental and self righteous, regarding the lives of others. So the partner gets judged and shamed when she fails to do what the narcissist thinks she should do.

16. They are always behind their Dr. Jekyll mask in public. So the partner gets to be with Mr. Hyde behind closed doors. And Mr. Hyde is a monster.
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Narcissists are so toxic that they should be distinguished from merely toxic people.

They’ll toss a wrench into the machinery of your self-esteem and cackle while they’re doing it. If you haven’t experienced it, you cannot possibly understand, and I would not wish this “education” on anyone.

The effects can ripple into your friendships, professional life, future intimate relationships, everything.

You will waste up to several thousand hours of your future life brooding and analyzing, time you’ll never get back. Your circuits for evaluating good vs evil will be scrambled, potentially causing you to ignore good people for a while, or bend an ear to bad ones.

Do not spend an extra second in the presence of a narcissist. Asking “What can I do to change her, make her regret doing X or Y” is like juggling hand grenades. These people are so dangerous that your only concern should be whether you leave on foot, by car, bus, train or plane.
_______________________________________

Well you are basically opening yourself up to a person who has no other intention than to use you for their purpose and will do anything to achieve this goal!

The most dangerous aspect of that is this person has no shame, no guilt, no remorse and no consideration for you or your life during this process so you are practically in danger from anything at all times in their prescense!

The lying, manipulating, emotional abuse, gaslighting, cheating and etc are nothing compared to the fact this person actually gets pleasure out of doing the most evil and backstabbing hurtful things to someone whom they know actually cares about or loves them!

As crazy as it is and as crazy as some of the things they do, you may or may not be able to forgive them for some of these things over time with personal healing and etc.

But the one thing you can not forgive or overlook is the fact they did these things to you knowing you were genuine to them! In essence they mistook and took your kindness for weakness and used that against you in the most treacherous and manipulative manner!

And they would have continued to do this until you cut them out of your life! It's literally like having a bloodsucking leach attached to you and will not detach until you forcefully remove it and then dodge its return forever!

At the end of the day you lost time, effort, resources and emotional energy and these losses only matter to you, not them! So the most dangerous aspect of being in a relationship with a narcissist is that you were actually in a relationship with nothing more than a shapeshifter, a human mirror or honestly you were dating yourself or a clone!

The good memories you have also mean nothing to them and only exist in your head as a brutal reminder of the losses you can never regain or make up for!


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The Round Table / Re: Tales From The Narc Side
« Last post by tellomon on May 27, 2024, 12:09:38 PM »
How does shame
mold a narcissist?

Shame plays a paradoxical role in shaping a narcissist. While appearing outwardly confident and grandiose, narcissists often harbor a deep-seated sense of shame they desperately try to conceal. This underlying shame is critical to their development and significantly influences their thoughts, feelings, and behaviors.

HERE'S HOW SHAME MOLDS A NARCISSIST

1. Early Experiences and the Formation of Shame:

Narcissism often stems from early childhood experiences. While the exact causes are complex and varied, common themes include:

Invalidating Environments: Growing up in a household where their emotions were dismissed, ignored, or criticized, leaving them feeling inadequate and unworthy.

Conditional Love: Receiving love and attention only when they met specific expectations or performed well, teaching them that their worthiness was contingent upon external validation.

Abuse or Trauma: Experiencing emotional, physical, or sexual abuse leads to deep feelings of shame and a belief that they are inherently flawed or damaged.

2. The Shame Shield: Constructing a False Self:

To cope with this overwhelming sense of shame, narcissists develop a defense mechanism: constructing a false self. This false self is an idealized image of themselves – perfect, superior, and deserving of admiration.
It serves as a shield to protect them from experiencing the painful emotions of shame and vulnerability.

3. Maintaining the False Self: The Need for Narcissistic Supply:

The narcissist's false self is fragile and requires constant validation to be maintained. They seek out "narcissistic supply" – attention, admiration, and praise – to prop up their inflated self-image and avoid confronting their underlying shame. Any threat to their carefully crafted persona – criticism, failure, or rejection – can trigger intense guilt and lead to defensive reactions like rage, denial, or blame-shifting.

4. Shame Projection: Shifting Blame to Others:

Narcissists have difficulty processing and accepting their shame. Instead, they often project it onto others. They may accuse others of being inadequate, flawed, or responsible for their shortcomings. This projection allows them to distance themselves from their shame and maintain their sense of superiority.

5. The Vicious Cycle: Shame Perpetuates Narcissism:

The narcissist's reliance on external validation and their inability to process shame create a vicious cycle. Their need for constant admiration drives them to engage in behaviors that ultimately push others away. This rejection reinforces their underlying shame, perpetuating the cycle of narcissistic behavior.

In essence, shame is both a root cause and a driving force behind narcissistic behavior. It's a deep-seated wound that the narcissist tries to conceal and compensate for through their grandiose facade and manipulative actions.
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Narcissism is a shame-based disorder. Narcissists can't handle being shamed. Narcissists project their shame on you or on others. Narcissists don't want people to view them negatively. Narcissists think being wrong becomes weakness, which will be used against them. Narcissists don't understand that people can make mistakes, which is very common. Instead of rectifying their mistakes, they will blame, gaslight, deflect, lie, and deceive.

Narcissists project their shame on everyone. There is a reason why narcissists are so judgmental: narcissists believe people judge them like they judge people.

Narcissists have an inflated ego; they aren't going to admit the fact they have done wrong; if they do, then they experience extreme shame.

Narcissists wear masks to avoid being shamed; they just want to look perfect.
______________________________________

Narcissists are highly sensitive to shame and will go to great lengths to avoid feeling ashamed or being seen in a negative light.

When faced with criticism, disagreement, or being asked to change their behavior, narcissists often react with defensive behaviors like blaming others, acting victimized, or seeking revenge.

Narcissists have a fragile sense of self that depends on constant external validation and admiration from others. They see themselves as superior and entitled, and cannot tolerate feeling ashamed or inferior. Shame threatens to expose the narcissist's true insecurities and vulnerabilities, which they work hard to conceal.

To protect their ego, narcissists will often lash out at those who make them feel ashamed. They may accuse the other person of being abusive or in the wrong, even if the narcissist was the one acting inappropriately. Narcissists are masters at shifting blame and playing the victim to avoid taking responsibility for their actions.

Shame also drives narcissists to tightly control their image and relationships. They may be overprotective and controlling with their children, not out of genuine care, but to prevent the child from developing into an independent person who could make the narcissist feel ashamed. Narcissists want to maintain the illusion of perfection and will hide any flaws or wrongdoing from others.

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The Round Table / Re: Tales From The Narc Side
« Last post by tellomon on May 27, 2024, 07:56:40 AM »
7 Things You Must
Never Do With a
Narcissist


@helpinyerdasellavon
1 hour ago
Always expect the worst from a narcissist.  Never believe a word they say but pay attention to what they do.  They hate being exposed because it reveals who they really are.  Keep away from them.  This video is spot on, Danish!


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