Author Topic: Compulsory Australian Internet Filter Coming Mid-2010  (Read 51376 times)

*CountessA*

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Re: Compulsory Australian Internet Filter Coming Mid-2010
« Reply #50 on: March 24, 2010, 03:47:14 PM »
I'm sorry - it's a great story, but it IS just a story!

Stephen Conroy did not actually say those words. They were attributed to him in a lovely piece of satire, on the website www.probablysucks.com. The direct link to the satirical article is http://probablysucks.com/senator-stephen-conroy-reveals-he-was-molested-by-the-internet/
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*Brum6y*

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Re: Compulsory Australian Internet Filter Coming Mid-2010
« Reply #51 on: March 24, 2010, 03:56:07 PM »
Comment reserved (not withdrawn completely) subject to clarification of the facts of his claim.

*Yibida*

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Re: Compulsory Australian Internet Filter Coming Mid-2010
« Reply #52 on: March 24, 2010, 04:05:46 PM »
I'm sorry - it's a great story, but it IS just a story!

Stephen Conroy did not actually say those words. They were attributed to him in a lovely piece of satire, on the website www.probablysucks.com. The direct link to the satirical article is http://probablysucks.com/senator-stephen-conroy-reveals-he-was-molested-by-the-internet/

Awwww common Tess !... it was fun bagging this stiff... my bad for copy and pasting unconfirmed information with no truth content... I'm ready fer me punishment Gov.... tie me down and pour the chocolate down me throat till I canna take no more !!

Liisa-Sx

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Re: Compulsory Australian Internet Filter Coming Mid-2010
« Reply #53 on: March 24, 2010, 04:20:12 PM »
Hi Tess, yes I have since found out it is a piece that was satorised, however it does have some basis in truth, in an interview and I WILL find the bloody thing lol, he mentioned that he was looking at the internet and did in fact "click" on a pop up, which in turn threw up some Pr0n, while I am sure he was not riveted to his seat and unable to click off, he mentioned that it was distressing. He further mentioned that he disliked the email spam that arrived in his in box toting everything from offers of Russian brides to Viagra, gambling and Pr0n.

He has also said he dislikes the greater majority of internet content.. that to me is akin to saying I dislike the majority of books so I must burn those I dislike.

A better course of action would be not to pick up those sorts of books in the first place to continue the Analogy.

This is where I maintain the stance that Education rather than censorship or prohibition would be the better way forward.

The guy is a Tosser, you only have to take a good look at other policies he is dealing with.
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low-enghooi

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Re: Compulsory Australian Internet Filter Coming Mid-2010
« Reply #54 on: March 24, 2010, 04:33:06 PM »
Technically, is it possible to filter the internet? I doubt so.

Liisa-Sx

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Re: Compulsory Australian Internet Filter Coming Mid-2010
« Reply #55 on: March 24, 2010, 04:38:24 PM »
Technically, is it possible to filter the internet? I doubt so.


There is an interesting video and related article here on that very subject from 2008 when this was first proposed, link below.

http://www.zdnet.com.au/isp-level-content-filtering-won-t-work-339292158.htm

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gr8-expectations

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Re: Compulsory Australian Internet Filter Coming Mid-2010
« Reply #56 on: March 24, 2010, 04:54:57 PM »
BREAKING NEWS - CONNOLLY BUYS VIAGRA ONLINE AFTER ACCIDENTAL NETSURF!


DA Washington Post ;D

low-enghooi

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Re: Compulsory Australian Internet Filter Coming Mid-2010
« Reply #57 on: March 24, 2010, 06:44:07 PM »
There is an interesting video and related article here on that very subject from 2008 when this was first proposed, link below.

http://www.zdnet.com.au/isp-level-content-filtering-won-t-work-339292158.htm

Thanks.

In 2008, our government tried to block a political website, and they give up after few days. A real joke. People switched to third party proxy server. The government just can't do anything to stop it.

Last year our stupid minister proposed to implement the internet filter "Green Dam" but earlier this year they decided to drop the proposal. Waste of time.

*r3830*

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Re: Compulsory Australian Internet Filter Coming Mid-2010
« Reply #58 on: March 24, 2010, 11:05:09 PM »
I still reckon he was caught with his pants down...... by the missus! Had to blame something!

*FluffyDuckee*

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Re: Compulsory Australian Internet Filter Coming Mid-2010
« Reply #59 on: March 24, 2010, 11:07:00 PM »
lol
:duckling:

*r3830*

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Re: Compulsory Australian Internet Filter Coming Mid-2010
« Reply #60 on: March 24, 2010, 11:10:26 PM »
Well..... it worked for Malcolm Fraser..... perhaps Conroy is a voyeur of history?  ;D

*Brum6y*

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Re: Compulsory Australian Internet Filter Coming Mid-2010
« Reply #61 on: March 24, 2010, 11:58:18 PM »
It is a sad reflection on society when taking responsibility for your actions is considered bizarre.

Centuries

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Re: Compulsory Australian Internet Filter Coming Mid-2010
« Reply #62 on: March 25, 2010, 12:27:33 AM »
It is a sad reflection on society when taking responsibility for your actions is considered bizarre.

Extremely sad.

“I can't explain myself, I'm afraid, because I'm not myself, you see”  Lewis Carroll

gr8-expectations

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Re: Compulsory Australian Internet Filter Coming Mid-2010
« Reply #63 on: March 25, 2010, 12:34:50 AM »


cent ur a little hidey flamigo tonight, goodnight my dear have a great rest of week

Centuries

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Re: Compulsory Australian Internet Filter Coming Mid-2010
« Reply #64 on: March 25, 2010, 12:48:04 AM »
Night gr ;D ;D ;D

I have been quiet.. Sigh! Every time I come in to the site some darn "thing" calls me away. I believe the "thing"is reality. Has been popping up quite often, but I am working on it ;D
“I can't explain myself, I'm afraid, because I'm not myself, you see”  Lewis Carroll

*FluffyDuckee*

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Re: Compulsory Australian Internet Filter Coming Mid-2010
« Reply #65 on: March 25, 2010, 12:48:57 AM »
Night Centuries...
:duckling:

Centuries

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Re: Compulsory Australian Internet Filter Coming Mid-2010
« Reply #66 on: March 25, 2010, 01:05:55 AM »
Night, fluffy ;D ;D ;D  You are looking cute ;D
“I can't explain myself, I'm afraid, because I'm not myself, you see”  Lewis Carroll

Centuries

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“I can't explain myself, I'm afraid, because I'm not myself, you see”  Lewis Carroll

*r3830*

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Re: Compulsory Australian Internet Filter Coming Mid-2010
« Reply #68 on: March 25, 2010, 10:39:03 AM »
So, this is in the interest of making us all "safe". Perhaps a short look back in history would be helpful.

Other government decisions that "make us safe".

Firearm Buy-Back - Howard Government.

This catalyst for this change came about due to the Port Arthur incident in Tasmania.
The government instituted a buy-back scheme - where people would be compensated for the cost of their equipment. At the same time, various types of firearms became illegal for people to own. The 'logic' behind the scheme was to get these things out of people's homes. To cut a long story short... this idea cost the taxpayer $500 million.
Outcome: The government 'bought -back 125,000 firearms, which represented approximately 5% of what was believed to be in the community. In NSW alone, ownership of these things was guestimated to be around 3 million.... but no records of purchase existed prior to 1975.

Being involved in the sport at that time - I watched what was happening particularly closely. For a time there was an increase in break and enter complaints reported to the Police, particularly concerning firearms. Insurance claims were made against these losses.... while the items themselves were placed in safe places, and also taken off the registration lists. In effect, the changes pushed them underground. Incidentally, the funds from the buy-back were commonly invested in the purchase of new quality 'legal' hardware. Any law only impacts on law abiding people.

I wrote to PM John Howard at the time. The response I received back from him was that this matter was far bigger than simply firearm ownership. Between the lines - he simply wanted to establish himself in the pages of history.

Those who believed in the threat of the NWO saw this as a blatant attempt to disarm the population - inline with UN Charters.

Are you feeling safer yet?

How about the Anti-Biker Legislation?

The catalyst that provided the opportunity for government to introduce this 'thing' was the murder of a biker at Sydney airport. I'm sure many people here would remember the incident.
What we got from government was a piece of blanket legislation. It was not specific to bikers. The legislation gives the government an opportunity to effectively ban ANY particular group of people. All they need do is place the name of the target organisation into this legislation - and bang. Note particularly the fact that the government now has the ability to target a group - any group - that it doesn't like. Could be the Catholic Church - could be any group in the community. Public outrage certainly does provide good opportunities for governments. Effectively - we have crowd control... and it's enforceable!

And I forgot to mention..... Government do not have to give their reasons to anyone for these actions  - and there is no appeals process.

“It also creates the risk that outlawed groups will consolidate, move further underground, and engage in more clandestine, more dangerous, and more violent operations," he said.

http://www.uq.edu.au/news/index.html?article=19410

Are you feeling any safer yet?

And now - the government is further attempting to protect us all yet again - the catalyst here being Child porn. Dreadful stuff that certainly and justifiably creates public outrage. (now isn't that coincidental! Yet another government opportunity!)It's certainly not the sort of stuff that I would want on my computer - but then, unlike Mr Conroy... I will deal with it if the need arises. But, again - even at the huge expense involved, as has been so widely reported, the net gain will be very little to nil. What it will do however, is dramatically affect the quality of net speed. It will also give government the opportunity to ban particular sites from being viewed in your home. people mention 'freedom of choice'. Well, that's something that is ceasing to exist.... but the government believes that it's in our best interests - that's why they are taking the decision on our part. Perhaps it's about making our trading partner, China, more sympathetic towards us? Perhaps it's about stifling the ability to communicate with others across the sea. Who knows? They do!

Surely, you're feeling safer by now..... aren't you?

Tello shared some insight into the US fourth amendment recently - which related to search procedures. The criteria included 'probable cause' and the satisfying of a judge to gain this approval to enter someone's home / place of business. By coincidence - we used to have the same criteria here.... but no longer. Police now only have to satisfy a test of 'reasonable suspicion' to go it alone. So, the scrutiny of a magistrate has been removed. The catalyst for this change came from terrorism. Again, caused great public outrage and fear across the world. People wanted to feel safe - so government gain acted. Just how considerate are these people, I hear you ask!

Funny you know - I remember the words of  gentleman who shared that when we change our lifestyles because of terrorism, the terrorist have achieved their goals.

Now surely, everyone should feel much safer. All of these good things have occurred with direct destruction of our fundamental rights.... but for our own good. It must be so - that's what the government tells me! And, what sort of ungrateful barsted would I be were I to question them while they offer me such great protection!

Apologies for the length of this post people!

 


Liisa-Sx

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Re: Compulsory Australian Internet Filter Coming Mid-2010
« Reply #70 on: March 25, 2010, 03:36:36 PM »
Interesting link Loco, more interesting is the comments made by informed people underneath it.

I am still amazed that after all the information people are given in other conversations I have had when asked what they intend on doing about it, the response is usually something like -
"What me? what can i do they wont listen and they will do it anyway"

Yes, that is what they WANT you to do, in fact they are banking on the Apathy of the masses to enforce it, they have earmarked 44 million dollars of taxpayers money over 4 years to impliment this, countless thousands have already been spent, it is unworkable, it is pointless, and conroy spouts nothing but spin and lies, it has loop holes you could drive a car through, and don't think the "opposition' will save you.. they BOTH wanted it initially and the other side are ominously silent in their opposition to it.

Conroy is lying through his teeth this HAS been proven.
He has now admitted that the core of his whole argument for this proposal "To stop children seeing Pr0n" is NOT true and it will NOT stop this happening.

This is a Breach of your RIGHTS, it WILL affect you much much more than you realise, it WILL slow down your internet, it WILL be another step in the direction of the government spying on YOU and everything YOU do.

Do NOT leave it up to "someone else" to deal with, doing so through inaction no matter how well intended is a vote FOR the Clean feed.
They said there would be cake....and there WAS!


*CountessA*

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Re: Compulsory Australian Internet Filter Coming Mid-2010
« Reply #72 on: March 25, 2010, 10:23:12 PM »
The violent talk and nonsensical stance in that article is doing proponents of freedom of access to information NO GOOD at all - in fact, the contrary.

Proponents of freedom of access to information, to whom this filtering proposal is anathema, ought to demonstrate intelligence, courtesy, fairness, a love of justice... rather than align themselves in any way with a proposal of violence, suicide, destruction or murder. To do otherwise is simply giving Conroy ammunition. The point to me is that PEACEFUL and VERY HIGHLY EDUCATED people who DO NOT CRUISE THE INTERNET FOR PORN and are NOT CHILD ABUSERS and have no interest in TERRORISM are among those who are adamantly against this filter.

What someone who wants to stage a violent riot and slash politicians' throats says on behalf of freedom of access to information does not impress me or interest me, nor would it convince me (if I were worried about the influence of sites with violent or pornographic content) that the freedom to choose is a good idea... because freedom of access to information has its downside - and the words and actions of that 4chan crowd seem to me to be it.

However, that is the price we pay for having free will. Some will choose to be vicious; we do not propose radical brain surgery to remove the ability to choose. We MUST remain free to choose. This is an essential aspect of being a human being. God help us... enforced compliance is as repugnant to me as choosing to be depraved, perverted and vile (in a different way).
"No man is an Iland, intire of it selfe; every man is ...a part of the maine; ...any mans death diminishes me, because I am involved in Mankinde"

Liisa-Sx

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Re: Compulsory Australian Internet Filter Coming Mid-2010
« Reply #73 on: March 26, 2010, 12:19:06 AM »
I agree Tess,

There is NO place for violence in an enlightened and intelligent stance, unfortunately we only have to look to the news media these days to see that many of the youth today see violence as the way forward to getting their way.

The site mentioned and I am not going to name it again, is not to be taken lightly by any means, I have seen what they can do and I for one will not even go to their site, far too risky and I do not reccommend anyone else does either.

Sadly in an age where children take knives to school to resolve conflict, Snr conroy would be wise to take the threat very seriously, while I do not agree with his ridiculous proposition I agree even less with violence as a solution to anything.

If only they realised how these sorts of actions set back those trying to defend their rights peaceably.

By behaving in this manner they are inadvertantly casting a vote FOR the clean feed.
They said there would be cake....and there WAS!

*r3830*

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Re: Compulsory Australian Internet Filter Coming Mid-2010
« Reply #74 on: March 26, 2010, 09:13:50 AM »
I also agree countess - as I agree with your post also Liisa.

And any reasonable person who reads that article will probably conclude that the people responsible for it are nothing short of terrorists - who are using the net for foul means. The same reasonable person would probably think it a good idea that the watchdogs ban the site. But then - do we have the freedom to post on a subject - or do we not. I don't believe that a position in between serves any useful purpose - for anyone. An article regarding child abuse could be interpreted by Mr Conroy as unacceptable - where Mr Nile may see it as a valued contribution.

The cynic would probably suggest that the article was written for effect - in favour of the censors.
The critic would argue that the ramifications created can, again, affect everyone - due to the actions of the few.

Don't think for a minute that the authorities wouldn't know how to locate the people responsible.

*CountessA*

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Re: Compulsory Australian Internet Filter Coming Mid-2010
« Reply #75 on: March 26, 2010, 03:44:04 PM »
Very good point, loco - "written for affect - in favour of the censors" rings true.

Liisa, that is a good warning - and your mention of children taking knives to school to resolve conflict is extremely timely. It's been appalling to see this sort of thing reported lately. I believe there is a real and disturbing abrogation of responsibility by some parents, and it is leading to children being exposed to, absorbing and accepting some deeply destructive ideas. I mean destructive to them... with a side effect of their actions being destructive to others. But the solution is not to impose a mass government-controlled ban; it's not only a futile proposal for its supposed purpose, but it puts power over personal choice into hands that should not have that power over personal choice.

We're talking about information... not the wholesale legalising of illegal sites and actions. The government rightly needs to set legislation and ensure its enforceability when it comes to child pornography, terrorism, etc., but that's not what this is about.

Conroy, as has been said, has a remarkable lack of technical knowledge when it comes to this issue. His comments on peer-to-peer communication were simply embarrassing.
"No man is an Iland, intire of it selfe; every man is ...a part of the maine; ...any mans death diminishes me, because I am involved in Mankinde"

*Brum6y*

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Re: Compulsory Australian Internet Filter Coming Mid-2010
« Reply #76 on: March 26, 2010, 07:39:07 PM »
The one fundamental issue I have is that to hide these things insulates people from the realities of the world.  As insidious as many of them are these days, I feel that knowledge is far more practical than ignorance.

The security of a person, group or nation is, in my humble opinion, best obtained through an intelligent attitude towards a known risk, rather than playing 'make believe'.

This does, however, require those with an appropriate level of 'life experience' take up an appropriate portion of responsibility to guide and explain things to those who are impressionable and still learning.  The classic is the parent/child relationship.

But with a combination of parenting challenges ranging from apathetic parents to the 'do-gooders' that advocate the rights children have and encourage them to demand those rights without giving them the knowledge or the self-awareness they need to take on the responsibility that comes with those 'rights' - this task is all but impossible for many.

However......

Practical example....

When each of my kids were going for their driving licence, I put it right in front of them... "I know you're going to hoon - but pick your time and place".

This acknowledged a couple of things - but the REASON I said this was that they realise they not only have the freedom to 'hoon' but that it was their responsibility, if they chose to do so.

I then gave them alternatives if they were tempted to 'race' .. first off at the lights; first across the intersection; first to the speed limit - making the point that these test the skill of the driver and that you can 'win' against a turbo V8, WRX or whatever.  This had a logic and appeal and - again - leaves them in control of their choices, but mindful of the responsibilities that accompany those choices.

This whole exercise was never a lecture of "Do this. Do that. Don't do this. Don't do that."  That only makes them switch off (remember what it was like..?)  Besides, I want them to learn HOW to assess situations that they've never been lectured on - so you give them some ideas and some reference points with guidance as opportunity presents.  This not only gives them the comfort to shoulder the responsibility, but the understanding to accommodate subtle variations and be able to approach completely unprecedented situations with some practical tools for an intelligent response.



I see the issues on handling internet content are rather parallel.

*Brum6y*

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Re: Compulsory Australian Internet Filter Coming Mid-2010
« Reply #77 on: March 26, 2010, 07:57:46 PM »
Besides, when it comes to over-the-top activists, I think I'd rather be able to keep an eye on them than have them disappear underground.  If something untoward were to present itself, a conscientious web surfer could notify authorities and it could be monitored.

To prohibit access to something that society has woven into its fabric over time, based solely on the subjective opinion of somebody else is not a good move - for so many reasons.....  the most relevant of these is in answering this question: "DOES PROHIBITION WORK?"


Move over speakeasy - make room for surfeasy...

ernest_price

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Re: Compulsory Australian Internet Filter Coming Mid-2010
« Reply #78 on: March 26, 2010, 08:26:57 PM »
The violent talk and nonsensical stance in that article is doing proponents of freedom of access to information NO GOOD at all - in fact, the contrary.

It'a bit like the Cronulla single instance 'riot'. Many of the people causing the problem on that single day [compared to around 15 years of abuse at Cronulla by people from a fair distance away] weren't actually from the area, but really extreme people from another place a fair way away but in a slightly different direction.

Most of the people making these comments are nutters who aren't really that interested in the topic - but have found a great place to be noticed.

emptyheadted

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Re: Compulsory Australian Internet Filter Coming Mid-2010
« Reply #79 on: March 29, 2010, 12:05:47 AM »
as australian we should stand up and say no to this filter, we going down a dangerous path, going to end up like china

wyzeguy60

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Re: Compulsory Australian Internet Filter Coming Mid-2010
« Reply #80 on: March 29, 2010, 04:28:46 PM »
extract from the " australian " newspaper as posted on yahoo today

" The US government has raised concerns about Kevin Rudd's internet censorship plan, saying it flies in the face of the Obama administration's policy of a free and open internet.

The concerns come as the US State Department launches a "diplomatic assault" on the open internet in a bid to strengthen global economic ties and security, The Australian newspaper reports.

"The US and Australia are close partners on issues related to cyber matters generally, including national security and economic issues," US State Department Noel Clay told The Punch website.

"We do not discuss the details of specific diplomatic exchanges, but can say that in the context of that ongoing relationship, we have raised our concerns on this matter with Australian officials."

Under the plan, Australian ISPs would be forced to block access to websites which have been refused classification. The list of websites will be top-secret.

Recent reports by Microsoft, Yahoo and Google criticised the plan, saying it might slow internet speeds or that the list of blacklisted websites could be leaked to the public.

Online activists Anonymous last month launched attacks on several government websites, including the prime minister's, because of the censorship plan.

The operation — dubbed Titstorm — flooded the websites with so many requests that they crashed "

mandurahmum

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Re: Compulsory Australian Internet Filter Coming Mid-2010
« Reply #81 on: March 29, 2010, 05:45:38 PM »
Unfortunately this sort of filter is needed because parents are not doing their jobs.  How many times must they be told to supervise their children online - not to allow them to access the net in their bedrooms etc.

You just have to look at some of their myspace pages - I have been shocked by some of th pictures that some of my friends have on there for the world to see.  I have even told some of the parents - they were that bad - and most said they had no idea.  Which surprises me -  did they never look.  I made sure I was on my sons friends list - so I could see what he was doing and saying - and although I trusted my son - I never forgot that kids are kids - and they can be naughty when they think parents are not watching.

We are becoming a nanny state - why because of irresponsible parents.  Unfortunately the government must look after these children so that they are protected.



On another note - who bloody cares what the US Government has concerns with about Australia - they need to fix their country before interfering with other countries business.  They are not the boss of the world

wyzeguy60

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Re: Compulsory Australian Internet Filter Coming Mid-2010
« Reply #82 on: March 29, 2010, 06:52:21 PM »
hi Mum, I think my post above may have been taken out of context.

Let me make this very clear. I am appalled at what KRudd and his ministers are doing and will fight to the bitter end to help stop them doing this to our Internet and censorship laws.

I have 2 teenage children and I keep a distant but careful watch on their activities. My son is a wiz on computers and has a powerful games capable machine. He has almost unlimited freedom on the internet but knows he would be serious trouble if he went into or viewed inappropriate content.

My daughter is also constantly reminded of the dangers of the internet, chat sites etc.

My post above was to in fact highlight how absurd the policy proposal is and if the US is opposed it in fact HELPS our fight to get rid of Rudd at the next election and his nanny state ideas.

This single issue is almost certain to bring them down when and if the details of the proposal are in fact released in time.

 ;D

low-enghooi

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Re: Compulsory Australian Internet Filter Coming Mid-2010
« Reply #83 on: March 29, 2010, 07:43:59 PM »
This single issue is almost certain to bring them down when and if the details of the proposal are in fact released in time.

Technically a failed proposal. Our stupid Information minister did propose similar thing but he withdrew it few months later after some comprehensive "study". I wonder what that stupid comprehensive "study" is. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to tell that is a completely stupid idea however you look at it. I don't believe there ever is any software solution that can limit your online activity.

The solution is rather simple, I wonder why those politician didn't see it. Get the kids to collect coins.

mandurahmum

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Re: Compulsory Australian Internet Filter Coming Mid-2010
« Reply #84 on: March 29, 2010, 08:06:23 PM »
hi Mum, I think my post above may have been taken out of context.

Let me make this very clear. I am appalled at what KRudd and his ministers are doing and will fight to the bitter end to help stop them doing this to our Internet and censorship laws.

I have 2 teenage children and I keep a distant but careful watch on their activities. My son is a wiz on computers and has a powerful games capable machine. He has almost unlimited freedom on the internet but knows he would be serious trouble if he went into or viewed inappropriate content.

My daughter is also constantly reminded of the dangers of the internet, chat sites etc.

My post above was to in fact highlight how absurd the policy proposal is and if the US is opposed it in fact HELPS our fight to get rid of Rudd at the next election and his nanny state ideas.

This single issue is almost certain to bring them down when and if the details of the proposal are in fact released in time.

 ;D

I really like K Rudd - I like a  lot of the things he has done and I actually think the country is in a better position because of him and his government. 

I dont blame him for us becoming a nanny state - I blame the parents that have forced the government to act to protect their kids. 

I will not be supporting the filter - but I do see the need for it unfortunately

gr8-expectations

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Re: Compulsory Australian Internet Filter Coming Mid-2010
« Reply #85 on: March 29, 2010, 08:34:46 PM »

wotif it filters your footy posts? hmmmm?

mandurahmum

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Re: Compulsory Australian Internet Filter Coming Mid-2010
« Reply #86 on: March 29, 2010, 08:36:22 PM »

wotif it filters your footy posts? hmmmm?

Well that could be a good thing - all my bragging about the dockers - could be embarrassing later

gr8-expectations

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Re: Compulsory Australian Internet Filter Coming Mid-2010
« Reply #87 on: March 29, 2010, 08:42:07 PM »

lol!

wyzeguy60

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Re: Compulsory Australian Internet Filter Coming Mid-2010
« Reply #88 on: March 29, 2010, 09:17:10 PM »
" I really like K Rudd - I like a  lot of the things he has done and I actually think the country is in a better position because of him and his government "

I try never to get involved in politics but I've got to bite on this one - no offence mum

I cannot remember a worse PM in terms of crippling debt, ridiculous stimulus policies and etc. ( and remember he is trying to screw WA right this very minute with GST revenue ).
Believe me when I say you aint seen nothing yet. I am terrified of the legacy this current government is leaving our future generation of taxpayers.
And even worse - I believe a large proportion of the debt is actually owed to China - the very country that has applied this internet technology with little success.

Now more importantly lets try a simplistic example of how this filter may work.

You want to check out what your local school has on offer on their canteen menu.
It won't let you bring up a search on " canteen " because it has the word " teen " in it.
Gawd help us if chicken " breast " fillets are on the menu.

Even worse - your internet connections will be slower and many of the sites you are used to using may become unusable. This is a real worry and will relate directly to the forums here which may come under scrutiny.

Lastly though, I resent being patronised by state and federal govermenments because a minority abuse privileges. Penalties already exist for crimes of this nature so why do we need a filter. I see a far bigger agenda here and it loosely follows restriction of freedom of speech.

 ;D


Roo

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Re: Compulsory Australian Internet Filter Coming Mid-2010
« Reply #89 on: March 29, 2010, 09:37:33 PM »
A lot of very interesting takes on this issue.

My thoughts are....if the Government spent the same amount of funds as they are prepared to do if they follow through with this censorship deal....and direct them to education and providing top notch free filters for parents to use for their children's Internet browsing.....it would be money well spent.

How hard is it to provide a filter that a parent could click on or off with a password?

Therefore...safety for the kids....yet the Adult is free to use their freedom of choice.

*Yibida*

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Re: Compulsory Australian Internet Filter Coming Mid-2010
« Reply #90 on: March 29, 2010, 09:58:22 PM »

Filters are available now and have been for eon's...free on the net or come with anti-virus programs... this is all a load of crock... it's the parents responsibility to do some thing about it ...no one else.

*Brum6y*

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Re: Compulsory Australian Internet Filter Coming Mid-2010
« Reply #91 on: March 29, 2010, 10:17:27 PM »
Aside from the issues of practicality - including who decides on where the block/allow line is drawn (which will differ, depending on who you ask) - I have one HUGE issue.....

Through the RELIANCE on this filter (were it to be implemented) the current level of ABDICATION OF RESPONSIBILITY will reach stratospheric heights!!

WHEN - and it is only a matter of time - WHEN someone (who shouldn't) gets access to something they shouldn't and something happens ... where will the blame be placed?


The utter reliance on a third party's accuracy and diligence WILL occur in a significant proportion of the population - but it is hardly rocket science to those that know half of anything about the internet that this is a shaky trust at the best of times and definitely NOT the sort of thing you could 'bank on'.

Such an idea is merely extending the already pandemic problem of parental abdication.

By shielding people from the realities of the world, you are destroying their abilities to cope with them when brought face to face. 

Knowledge is power - and if there is a risk in the knowledge that kids make come into contact with, then the parents need to provide BETTER knowledge.  That might require some uncomfortable discussion on unsavoury subjects - but if the kids don't know what's involved, I'd rather be the one putting the framework of understanding in place.  Admit such-and-such occurs; give your thoughts; explain attitudes from the legal perspective ... whatever is appropriate to arm your kids with the tools and confidence to deal with the carp they encounter.

Remember - you're not going to be around forever and they're not going to tell you everything.  If you DON'T give them the knowledge, they are going to suffer at the hands of someone who will gladly take advantage of their naivety.

mandurahmum

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Re: Compulsory Australian Internet Filter Coming Mid-2010
« Reply #92 on: March 29, 2010, 10:31:03 PM »
No offence taken wyzeguy.  I agree with what you said about WA - but every federal government has taken WA for a ride.  We have always contributed so much - but get very little in return.

It is a parents responsibility to protect their kids - a job most of us take very seriously - but unfortunately it is the same bad parents that make it hard on everyone else.


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Re: Compulsory Australian Internet Filter Coming Mid-2010
« Reply #93 on: March 29, 2010, 10:48:24 PM »
- but unfortunately it is the same bad parents that make it hard on everyone else.

I agree - but I firmly believe that by insulating EVERYBODY you are just encouraging the laziness on those who don't try AND you are taking away those (less than desirable, but inevitable) opportunities for caring parents to help their kids be aware of and deal with REALITY.


It is similar to (but with far worse consequences, in my view) to the idea of not having Pass/Fail grades at school.  By protecting the 'fragile ego' of the young ones, you are setting them up for one almighty shock when they get out into the real world and encounter the cold hard facts about getting and keeping a job.


Hiding the truth from people - especially our kids - can only result in a disaster far worse in scale than exposure to it.


JMO.

mandurahmum

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Re: Compulsory Australian Internet Filter Coming Mid-2010
« Reply #94 on: March 29, 2010, 11:05:04 PM »
- but unfortunately it is the same bad parents that make it hard on everyone else.

I agree - but I firmly believe that by insulating EVERYBODY you are just encouraging the laziness on those who don't try AND you are taking away those (less than desirable, but inevitable) opportunities for caring parents to help their kids be aware of and deal with REALITY.


It is similar to (but with far worse consequences, in my view) to the idea of not having Pass/Fail grades at school.  By protecting the 'fragile ego' of the young ones, you are setting them up for one almighty shock when they get out into the real world and encounter the cold hard facts about getting and keeping a job.


Hiding the truth from people - especially our kids - can only result in a disaster far worse in scale than exposure to it.


JMO.

and I agree with you.  



Liisa-Sx

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Re: Compulsory Australian Internet Filter Coming Mid-2010
« Reply #95 on: March 29, 2010, 11:53:30 PM »
The reality is.. and Senator Conroy has admitted publically as recently as a few days ago, I watched him say it, is that the filter will NOT stop children from accessing R rated content, it will NOT stop them from accessing ALL Terrorism related sites, it will NOT stop them from seeing sites on other distasteful content period. He was asked these questions specifically and he conceded that the content would still be there and able to be accessed in one form or another and that parents would need to continue with due diligence.

So I ask you.. WHAT purpose is this filter? What point is there to spending the further allocated 1.44 million dollars on top of the 200,000 already spent to implement a filter that will stop a few sites temporarily, the government will continually be chasing the "bad" sites across the web as they switch domains and proxy's.

We already have filters in place, there are commercial and free filters readily available for purchase, why are the concerned parents not already in possesion of one and implementing it right now, why are they waiting for a government fix?

Why do concerned parents not monitor their children's internet use? My son is NOT allowed to use the internet period without me right there with him, If he has a project I assist him with looking up the information he needs under his project criteria, he does the work but I ensure he is not viewing any content inadvertently unsuitable.

I educate my son, I do not want him wrapped in cotton wool, I want him to have "street smarts" as well as Book smarts, I want to give him the knowledge to survive in this world, not to become a mindless coddled sheep that has no life skills and no way of dealing with anything not considered the "norm" or slightly outside of the box, knowledge is power. I have seen sheltered people face adversity big and small and they fall apart because they do not have the skills needed to deal with certain situations, limiting the next generations to come from free thinking and experience good and bad can only be detrimental to society in the long run.

I realise this is only my opinion and I do not mean to offend anyone with  differing viewpoints, all I am saying is that each  one of us should think long and hard before merely accepting more Government spin.

The Government and in particular Senator Conroy and those who are behind him have a separate political agenda here, be it fundamentalist prohibition, censorship or merely a grab for their 15 minutes of fame.

I have used the net extensively for a VERY long time on a daily basis for work and leisure and to be honest, I have rarely ever hit on innappropriate content when using it correctly, on the occasion that i have seen innappropriate content on a page I have gone to it is usually a script on a site or an advertisement which I CHOSE not to click on, I keep my antivirus up to date, I use pop up blockers, I do not click on advertisements or links and cannot recall the last time I had to view any material I did not want to see. Google does have user set filters as well as does your Browser, most users do not even know they are there.

Permitting the incompetency and Nannying through scare tactics and spin from the government is Apathy at it's worst,  allowing the government to impose such breaches of our fundamental rights is a step too far and where will it stop?
They said there would be cake....and there WAS!

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Re: Compulsory Australian Internet Filter Coming Mid-2010
« Reply #96 on: March 30, 2010, 12:31:52 AM »
Agree with your post Liisa. May I expand it just a tad?

the government will continually be chasing the "bad" sites across the web as they switch domains and proxy's.

Yes - the Government will choose and control what is available content..... probably based along the lines of Mr Conroy's thinking. Being 'top secret' information - we won't know just what that is until it's gone. And - it could very well be sites similar to OZRT.

Why do concerned parents not monitor their children's internet use?

Concerned parents do. It's the unconcerned who don't. Can it be argued that the majority rests with the unconcerned factor? Personally, I think not. But it stands to reason - If you cane the whole class - you'll get the kid with the pea shooter. Was a lousy management practise years ago - and remains so today.

The Government and in particular Senator Conroy and those who are behind him have a separate political agenda here, be it fundamentalist prohibition, censorship or merely a grab for their 15 minutes of fame.

I'll go with option 2 - pure censorship. These people want to push their own barrows. They don't want the 'noise' (an Ebay term!) that exists when the populations can discuss what's happening. First, they have to get a foot in the door. They used the kids for that purpose. Then - they have the ability to change the terms of reference.

I have rarely ever hit on innappropriate content when using it correctly

Dare I suggest that reaching this content is a deliberate action - seldom an accidental one? Chat rooms are a little different - but that's why we as parents have logins to these places to ensure the safety of our kids.

Permitting the incompetency and Nannying through scare tactics and spin from the government is Apathy at it's worst,  allowing the government to impose such breaches of our fundamental rights is a step too far and where will it stop?

Where will it stop? Now that's a good question! How long is a piece of string?

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Re: Compulsory Australian Internet Filter Coming Mid-2010
« Reply #97 on: March 30, 2010, 12:47:02 AM »
First, they have to get a foot in the door. They used the kids for that purpose. Then - they have the ability to change the terms of reference.

Like a good many things... it's the political way.

mandurahmum

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Re: Compulsory Australian Internet Filter Coming Mid-2010
« Reply #98 on: March 30, 2010, 01:19:11 AM »
Liisa - of course your correct.  But your a good parent, My computer has always been in the living room where I can see it - and my son was only allowed to connect his laptop once he was 17 and he had to have his door open.  Its not that I did not trust my son, but he was a teenager and his job seemed to be to find the boundaries of acceptable behaviour.  Thats what teenagers do.

But unfortunately its the bad parents and the bad people in general that make our lives more difficult.

I dont agree with the filter, I dont think it will work, and it will be the responsible people that have to suffer.  I think they should be spending the money on shutting down the 'disgusting' sites and getting stuff off the internet. 








Centuries

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Re: Compulsory Australian Internet Filter Coming Mid-2010
« Reply #99 on: March 30, 2010, 04:32:13 AM »
I agree with what is being said and I feel the money would be far better used to educate children and parents about the use, and potential dangers, of the internet, rather than attempting to follow the course of compulsory internet filtering, which, apparently, has the potential to affect all users of the internet in some way.   

There will, sadly, always be those who cannot be protected and those who will find the ways  to circumvent any laws, or controls, which are put in place by any Government. That applies to life in general..

Our Federal Government does not need to have a referendum if they decide to introduce this compulsory internet filtering. And, I do feel that this could have the potential to allow a present, or future, Government to alter the original terms of reference, simply if they deemed it to be necessary...for any one of a number of reasons. That is how I read the Constitution. I could be wrong.

The Federal and State Constitutions do appear to require some serious attention for quite a few reasons.

Off soap box now!




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