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Ebay ignores members
Back on the 1 April 09 eBay AU rolled out its new forum software along with a major restructure of the content.
Two of the most useful sections were totally removed: M2M (Member to Member) and Round Table.
M2M was well used, and served many eBay members who had problems or questions with valuable advice.
Most noticeable and very well supported was a dedicated group know as The Hijack Hunters. This group scoured over eBay listings looking for and finding hundreds of hijacked accounts every day. This was something eBay either couldn’t do or doesn’t bother to do in order to find and prevent this type of fraud.
These hijacked accounts listed expensive items like cameras and laptops.
Then there were the members who just needed advise from experienced members who looked out for fellow eBayers, forming a community of help and friendship.
Then there was the Round Table; this was a very active board that could have many threads (anywhere between 20 to 100 active threads on some days).
The Round Table was primarily for discussion on eBay policy and problems that members felt eBay needed to address.
Some of the most recent issues that were dealt with included a couple of scams that affected thousands of eBay members with millions of dollars involved in just one Powerseller rip-off.
The issues concerning these scams were brought to eBay's attention, and a lot of advice was given to the victims that allowed them to be compensated after lots of lobbying.
If it had not been for the RT, no one would have realised just how big this scam was, and thousands of eBay members would have been denied compensation.
Then there was eBay's push to make PayPal the only payment method available to eBay members in Australia.
This caused a major backlash and a major effort was made with submissions to the ACCC and complaints to the banking ombudsman.
After many months of campaigning, eBay withdrew its application just before an ACCC ruling that was going to go against them was made. It's possible that this withdrawal (to avoid a formal denial) leaves it wide open for them to try again, but at least eBay were clearly not granted permission to contravene Australian legislation on this forced payment method.
That is why sellers can now still offer other methods of payment at this time; however, PayPal must be one method offered regardless of what else is offered.
There were many hundreds of much smaller issues discussed that brought many changes and improvements to eBay, not to mention helping thousands of eBayers sort out issues and informing and enabling them to get protection or redress within their legal rights.
This could have played a large part in eBay's decision to remove these boards,
eBay has now effectively removed any method of individuals getting real help with these issues, and in my opinion this helps to hide fraud and keeps members ignorant of their rights under Australian legislation.
Now back to the vote of eBay AU members about the new forum restructure and restrictions - the AU moderator created a launch board for member feedback.
The over-all consensus was the new format was a total failure and members wanted a discussion-type board to be reintroduced.
A post was started asking for a yea or a nay. This was supported by 105 replies giving heartfelt yeas with only 2 nays.
This clearly shows what the community wants, and yet eBay has said no way.
eBay has also evoked the strongest level of censorship to prevent any member saying anything negative against eBay or PayPal or its policies - even if eBay or PayPal remove legislated and consumer rights - and IMO this level of enforcement would rank with those of the worst dictatorships around.
See poll results:
This is from the now removed
New discussion boards - launch board
http://www.buckthesystem.info/yayornay/rtpoll1.htm
http://www.buckthesystem.info/yayornay/rtpoll2.htm
http://www.buckthesystem.info/yayornay/rtpoll3.htm
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Hawk, the overwhelming impression I have is that eBay AU are not listening to the members. There are a few reasons why I'm not posting on those forums at present, and certainly the points you've mentioned are pertinent to my reasons. The lack of an eBay discussion forum is, I believe, staggeringly incomprehensible. I think it's counter-intuitive, unwelcoming and unhelpful - but of course it's eBay's decision.
I didn't cast a vote in the thread you mentioned. Had I done so, it would have been a "yea".
At present, I don't know how to explain what's going on with the AU forums. It seems as though eBay is driving people away rather than making it good and worthwhile to stay.
Wouldn't it be better for eBay to set some sort of control over eBay discussions rather than veto them altogether? To be aware of critical views in order to deal with the things that are wrong within eBay rather than make it impossible to be courteous but honest when constructive criticism and fact-based information is needed?
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On behalf of all disenfranchised ebayers, a heartfelt thank you for your above post, Night Hawk. You've very ably summed up the situation, imo.
It seems beyond dispute that ebay has effectively silenced altruisitic ebayers and gagged valuable discussion.
Now, the ebay boards are sterile and biased in favour of ebay and paypal. I pity potential and inexperienced ebayers and can imagine their dismay when they seek assistance. Live Help (ebay's spasmodic and frustrating help centre) was of little assistance to me. In fact, the dearth of assistance and support generally from ebay is what led to my desperate scouring of the ebay Community boards. What a sigh of relief when I discovered the old Round Table and its generous members who provided friendly and much needed assistance :) It was such a comfort to know they were there, virtually around the clock. It was they and not ebay who helped me through. Nice to know they're still around .. this time here in this independent but still informative and critically needed forum.
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Night, your so right, Ebay have effectively cut off it's nose to spite it's face as the saying goes.
The absolute reams of important information that kept Ebay AU from self imploding have now been relegated to the sin Bin.
I am wondering what sort of an impact this is going to have on them statistically from a market perspective and if they will even care if it does, they have mentioned often that Ebay AU is one of their niche markets, and thus it became a ground zero for testing out new policy methods good or bad, in their eyes overall it has little to no impact on their bottom line if things go belly up on AU.
Unfortunately I predict that in the not too distant future there may be an explosion of media attention as the scammers find their feet and realise they can literally get away with ripping off the AU customers on a small and large scale, and the unscrupulous buyers start rubbing their hands together, the sad thing is where will people turn for help now?
I have written to several interested IT media outlets outlining exactly what is now occurring with the Ebay AU dictatorship, I suppose now we sit back and wait for the train wreck to occur, as our hands are well and truly tied....
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It's very much in response to the perceived lack of eBay fulfilling its duty of care that we opened this forum. Many questions cannot adequately be answered in a 20-reply-limit thread. That's not even addressing the situation of the unfortunate eBayer who hasn't logged in and can't even see that there are other forums such as Buying and Selling.
Well, it's always been the task of eBayers themselves to take steps to protect themselves and each other. This is just one step further removed.
The thing that really concerns me is the hijacked accounts situation. Sterling people who have been logging and reporting hijacked eBay accounts, and reporting them to eBay Trust & Safety, are left feeling as though their work is truly unimportant in the face of eBay AU's self-immolation.
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It's very much in response to the perceived lack of eBay fulfilling its duty of care that we opened this forum.
EBay has always claimed to only be a venue and there fore in some way not responsible for what happens on its site, In my opinion little due care to its members.
Many questions cannot adequately be answered in a 20-reply-limit thread. That's not even addressing the situation of the unfortunate eBayer who hasn't logged in and can't even see that there are other forums such as Buying and Selling.
It sometimes takes this many questions just to get the full picture of a problem, it can be difficult getting all relevant information within a few posts from some buyers and sellers.
Then there are the issue of what is going to happen when the next large scale fraud comes along that involves hundreds of members.
How are all these members going to get assistance?
then add to that the moderation that will restrict members even talking about fraud on ebay forums.
spelling
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http://forums.ebay.com.au/topic/Recent-Ebay-News/A-Vote-Of/600116508
Fat lot of good it'll do tho' :ban:
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Quality, you're living dangerously...!
But what you've said echoes the concerns of eBayers throughout Australia. The decisions taken about eBay's forums in conjunction with the draconian rules imposed on them are contra-indicated.
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'Morning Countessa, ;)
Having had around 200 letters published in the SMH, I'm not averse to controversy. :chat:
The thread was pulled and the slap mentioned Posting material that in any way violates the eBay User Agreement or Community Values.
What a joke. Ebay's community values:
We believe everyone has something to contribute. But we censor those who contribute things we don't want to hear.
We believe that an honest, open environment can bring out the best in people. ...as long as that openness and honesty doesn't extend to the moderators.
For the record, my post said:
That's right. As an ebay member of 8 years I believe I
should have a voice in the incredibly poor decisions made by
those in charge here.
1. The changes imposed
on us by Shane and others have destroyed the ebay community.
2. The retention of Chinwag (by another name) at
the expense of the Round Table has to be one of the most
cruel, insensitive and stupid decisions I have seen in my
time here.
3. The moderators have allowed (and
perhaps assisted) 1 or 2 members to cause havoc for the
remainder.
4. Hundreds of ebay regulars and their
opinions were disregarded in favour of obstinacy and
intransigence on the part of the moderators.
5. Hundreds of ebay regulars now have an adverse opinion
of ebay based entirely on the decision of the moderators.
6. Hundreds of ebay regulars now have their
own Round Table site, independent of ebay, which means their
experience and willingness to help others is lost for
most ebay users.
I call on Shane and his
cohorts to resign immediately or request a transfer to a
department of ebay at which they can do no further damage.
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I agree wholeheartedly Quality.. perhaps its time for another letter to the SMH. ;D
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The thread was pulled and the slap mentioned Posting material that in any way violates the eBay User Agreement or Community Values.
Lucky for you we have better community standars and no such moderation notice will be issused here.
In my opinion the general public should be made aware of eBays attemps to silence any and all complaints by its members including the frequency of fraud.
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eBay has become an almost desperately sad echo of it's former self, a rather dreadful way IMO to treat the it's members, the very members for whom without, they would not have a business.
I once aduring the first few days of the paypal episode last year stated that they shouldn't bite the hand that feeds them, it earned my a pink slip and oh please don't do that again. I find the new policies with regards to posting on the forums more than just a little disturbing.
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I'm too old to be told how to do what and how and when to do it. This is so relaxing, thank you to all of you.
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Hi Nanna J, Welcome to RT
I am in the too old to be told basket as well :)
I feel extremely irritated that an opportunity to make money and make eBay money has been taken away because eBay wanted to make 'more' money by bringing in change by stealth and deception, at the expense of their loyal, hard working, members. To me they are acting like they are a franchise and they can tell us how to sell, what to sell and who to sell to. I pay them to use their site, nothing more. That was the initial contract and I don't like the fact they changed the contract without discussion. No respect.
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We're all of us adults - and it makes sense to treat adults AS adults.
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This is Standard, not Deviant behavior. It's eBay.
Hi ya'll! Meatloaf said it is cool for me to weigh-in.
So, there ya go!
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Hello, Tellomon!
Yes, it's cool - we have the fan going.
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hi Tellomon, Welcome, welcome.
Pull up a chair and get comfy. We have a relaxed atmosphere, great smilies, and very good, non reporting, company.
Have fun!
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tellomon Hi Gina said you would be dropping in from far away
Please drop into your profile and set your email to hide please.
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Nevada isn't far away. OZ is!
Testing 1, 2.......
It's Live Tello, but he has a bedtime, tooooo....
More serious foolishness later!
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I haven't thought the best of ebay since 2006 (especially since they banned me for a year - just because I made several suggestions to Simon & Meg :evil:)
However, this years actions plummet that thought to an even deeper level. It seems to me that the whole shebang is corrupt.
Has anyone thought of letting Ina (Auctionbytes) know of this site and the reasons why it was set up? She's always been keen on hearing about all things ebay.
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Hi Nanna & Tellomon ;D
Nice to see you here!
QCC, I still agree with the sentiments in your disappearing thread. eBay has continually shown total disregard for the opinions of the majority of members, but that will be their downfall. Such a waste of what was a fantastic venue.
Has anyone thought of letting Ina (Auctionbytes) know of this site and the reasons why it was set up?
Hi Col, that's a good idea.
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Waves to Ron ( Tello )
Just so everyone knows Tello is from the US and use to post on their boards
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Brilliant Col :t2:
I was browsing anti ebay anti paypal sites late last night. Came across some beauts. We are very, very conservative, compared to the sheer rage out there in cyber land
and it occurred to me then that down the line (or now, up to the Oz RT bosses) we might like to afilliate (can never spell that) with some of the more well-run sites with large membership. Some of them have very helpful links and info and have really put the work in, but most are slanted towards the US. I think there's a crying need for this Oz RT site and publicity of the right kind, such as you suggest, could raise Oz RT's profile as well as being very welcomed by thousands of Aussies out there who're feeling they're alone with no-one to turn to
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It's very important for Australians to be aware of their consumer rights. I'm worried that any such post on the AU eBay forums would be perceived by a certain coterie as breaking eBay's new forum policies. I'm even more worried that eBay would indeed perceive a wish to inform Australian consumers of the legislation that covers their situation, as well as links to the Ombudsman, and would sanction the deleting of such posts.
It's very disturbing.
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Waves to Ron ( Tello )
Just so everyone knows Tello is from the US and use to post on their boards
Right, meaty: "Used to post"
I got murdered on the Ask Griff - January Thread, on the Seller Central Board. Yes, I strayed from The Soapbox & into shark infested waters...but I did NO wrong. It was the Evil Button Pushers who did me in. Every one my posts were pulled, but not before I got it all on harddrive (PDF).
So, I got that 'indefinant' pink slip on Jan. 15.
Last week on April 15 I sent my appeal.
eBay delights in shunning me from the Forums, but they have no problem taking my money....I spent over 100 thousand dollars (US) in the past 4 years on eBay. You'd think I could get a little respect....but NO!
Yes: "Used to post on the US Boards"
Insert BITTER smiley here
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Hi Tello,
I agree, it is unbelievable they would treat you, the customer who provides their pay packet, in such a disgraceful way.
Why? Why? Why? has been resounding around the forums for a few years now but we seem no closer to an answer. I mean, what other company has a policy to disrespect their customers as eBay seem to?
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(http://i669.photobucket.com/albums/vv58/oldbears/kick_ass3.gif)
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I agree, it is unbelievable they would treat you, the customer who provides their pay packet, in such a disgraceful way.
For sure. However, it was the eBay Boardies that did me in. This is to say "members are not so civilized either".
eBay simply tallied up my pink slap scorecard from the past and unjustly rendered a brutal verdict.
Again I say: I never did any wrong. Button Pushers punked me, just like they did to all the GOOD FOLKS who didn't deserve that low-class treatment.
eBay is just a nasty place, period.
Checkout the eBay-related links on my website. Here's one of them:
http://www.jigup.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=9 (http://www.jigup.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=9)
This one is my fave:
Users Concerned over eBay Changes to Chat Boards
by: Ron Tello
Tue Feb 10 16:04:08 2009
______________________________________________
I share the majority of concerns herein.
My personal gripe is ''The Evil Button Pushers''. It's too easy for a Member to get ''sanctioned'' for any reason NOT pertaining to the rules.
When one or more low-life posters don't agree with another poster's point of view, or they don't like your face...*BLAM!* They hit the Report Button, and it does damage!
Personally, I was murdered on the ''Ask Griff'' thread at Seller Central, on January 15th. I did no wrong, did not flame or post inappropriate material.
Yet, everybody else continued to scuff, fight, throw things and generally violate the rules themselves without consequence.
There's NO Justice there.
And appealing is a Stonewall Experience.
After the format changes, and the noteable drop in traffic, I'm glad I got the boot. There's nothing going on there that's worthy of my participation any more.
Being ''on the outside looking in'' is a 3 Ring Event. The ''Ebay Suicide'' Saga is truely a modern American Horror Movie!
On a side note: The CENSORSHIP continues. I monitor the Forums everyday & I frequently see many innocent to mildly critical threads go POOF before they get 4 or 5 posts.
Recently on SC, there were 2 particular threads that were definantly vulgar & against the rules. One was entitled ''F*** Y**'', and it went on for nearly 2 1/2 hours before the sleeper at the switch woke up. (I have it on pdf!)
The other bad one was just as criminal & it went on to enjoy over 100 posts. (Also on pdf!)
eBay is INSANE, and so are the Button Pushers. And the Mods are WORTHLESS!!!!
It's no longer a ''Community''. It has become a TOXIC NEIGHBORHOOD. Enemy Territory. The Land of The Lost.
It was great while it lasted; I won't look back (but I have my pdf's to enjoy & potentially publish!)
eBay.....PFFFTTttttt.
http://blog.auctionbytes.com/cgi-bin/blog/blog.pl?/comments/2009/2/1234037563.html#comments (http://blog.auctionbytes.com/cgi-bin/blog/blog.pl?/comments/2009/2/1234037563.html#comments)
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Tellomon, that's horrible - I know all of us feel for you, having experienced the same sort of "toxic neighbourhood", but in the case of the Australian boards, the majority of the eBay members were delightful. They were helpful, informative, with a wealth of experience, enjoying humour and banter and wit and civil argument and splendidly convoluted discussions... but there was a nasty element which seemed to taint everything.
I cannot even imagine what it must be like to have seen the US eBay forums collapse as you've described, and to become the target of snarling creatures out to report you to the edges of hell itself must have been a horrible thing.
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:o unbelievable treatment!!!
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.....must have been a horrible thing.
Not so much as was my first slaps earlier in life. This latest incident came as a surprise more than a shock.
I'm a Seasoned Veteran Poster.
I take my lumps as they come.
I fell off my motorbike twice last week; I took my lumps.
Then I saddled-up again and gassed it.
I doubt I'll ever post on eBay again, but it certainly isn't a horror.
Besides, there's no benefit of it. It ain't fun anymore, you know that!
But this place...HEY! Plenty of potential for me to let my hair down (lots of it) and blow my head out for shites and giggles!!!
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Hi Tellomon. You are most welcome. I'm so sorry to hear of your experience.
Please accept a big cyberhug.
HUG
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((((((((((OK!!!))))))))))
Now can we stop feeling bad for me and move on? I really wanna do something meaningful here.
Maybe......start my very own, exclusive, bullet-proof and members only THREAD?????
Just a thot....... ;D
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Edict
It is FORBIDDEN to feel sorry for Tellomon, and lo, it is naughty to express this to him.
Offenders shall be forced to eat boiled Shoe of Corporate Executive.
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That's a bit much, but I'll go with it. THX!
(http://i146.photobucket.com/albums/r271/rontello/eBay%20nasty%20pix-gifs/EbaySniperBadge.gif)
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We're all of us adults - and it makes sense to treat adults AS adults.
:yess::yess::yess::yess::yess::yess:
As a point of interest . I post on a few forums and the LEAST toxic is the one that has the LEAST moderation. Because people are allowed to speak freely they tend not to get as het up !!
Q @ A ABC , PJ O'Rourke "There comes a point where complexity becomes fraud" I think Ebay has passed that point . Great saying !! :D
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Worthy and Honourable BUMP!!!
My first postings to this Forum are on this Thread.
:motorbikeride: :tello:
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:duckling:
:o
Edict
It is FORBIDDEN to feel sorry for Tellomon, and lo, it is naughty to express this to him.
Offenders shall be forced to eat boiled Shoe of Corporate Executive.
:sick:
Can we change this edict? I'm sick of eating boiled shoe of corporate executive......
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hello fluffy ? your right thats not suitable food for a duck
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(http://i975.photobucket.com/albums/ae234/acaciame/01-funny-shoes_300x250-1.jpg)
They upset fluffy' digestion ;D
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love it sole thongs
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I love you guys....
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I'll think up another edict soon, and I'll remove the boiled shoe from the menu...
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Bumping this g.d. thread was my doing, and none of yez is gonna detract from that fact!
:bigcalibre: YOU!
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I'll think up another edict soon, and I'll remove the boiled shoe from the menu...
Thank you Countess, it is much appreciated. One can only consume a certain amount of boiled sole....
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I love you guys....
Right.....Who are you and what have you done with Tello ???? !!!!
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I love you guys....
Right.....Who are you and what have you done with Tello ???? !!!!
Cue I think his account's been hijacked !...
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By Who....Dr. Phil?
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(http://i975.photobucket.com/albums/ae234/acaciame/01-funny-shoes_300x250-1.jpg)
They upset fluffy' digestion ;D
Too right they do. I'm sick of my brother using Fluffy poop in his sling shot.... It bounces off, but it does sting.
I love you guys....
Group hug: ==> :grouphug:
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Fluffy, have you hijacked Tello's account?
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This is all that's left of him.... No other evidence of a struggle.....
(http://i691.photobucket.com/albums/vv277/area_51_bucket/wonk5.jpg)
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C):-{= <" seriousness is not one of your best characteristic traits, is it?" <<
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What do you expect?... Tello use's Love in a sentence and we are to believe it's the real Tello ??
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I believe !!!
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C):-{= <" seriousness is not one of your best characteristic traits, is it?" <<
"You talkin' to me?"
(http://i404.photobucket.com/albums/pp125/cueperkins/talk2me.jpg)
"You talkin' to me? You talkin' to me? Well, who the hell else are you talkin' to? You talkin' to me? Well, I'm the only one here. Who the f--k do you think you're talkin' to?"
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Yeh.... and I don't know how to be serious.... :green:
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Fluffy, have you hijacked Tello's account?
:saint: :innocent:
:ballandchain: :tello: :smee!: and :marvin:
:duckling:
:liar: :evil:
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May the flotsom and jetsom of a thousand space junks fall on your house!
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It would splash if it fell on my house Tello.
Besides.... I am completely innocent. It was Smee and Yib.... and Cupie is their accomplace. ;D
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I am completely innocent. It was Smee and Yib
now , now, Fluffy one you know what happens to cute little Duckee's that tell fibs !
Does Smee need to come and "punish" you ?
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I am completely innocent. It was Smee and Yib
now , now, Fluffy one you know what happens to cute little Duckee's that tell fibs !
Does Smee need to come and "punish" you ?
(http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2363/2102941196_c6cca38fab.jpg)
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It would splash if it fell on my house Tello.
Besides.... I am completely innocent. It was Smee and Yib.... and Cupie is their accomplace. ;D
***runs for, and hides out in the Bronson Caves***
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bronson_Canyon (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bronson_Canyon)
http://www.seeing-stars.com/Locations/BronsonCaves.shtml (http://www.seeing-stars.com/Locations/BronsonCaves.shtml)
http://thecabinet.com/darkdestinations/location.php?sub_id=dark_destinations&letter=b&location_id=bronson_cavesgriffith_park (http://thecabinet.com/darkdestinations/location.php?sub_id=dark_destinations&letter=b&location_id=bronson_cavesgriffith_park)
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F.A.D Yibs thats harsh punishment
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:rofl: F.A.D. Haven't heard that one for a while.....
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(http://i404.photobucket.com/albums/pp125/cueperkins/plucka_duck_cabinet_0_2526_1.jpg)
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OZrt ignores its members.
Flock you guys!!!
(http://i146.photobucket.com/albums/r271/rontello/ODD%20Stuff/F-fish.jpg)(http://i146.photobucket.com/albums/r271/rontello/Skulls/8889scd.jpg)
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WTF you talkin about Willis ???
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WTF you talkin about Willis ???
Time in Oz at Yib's House is 10 Minutes until Midnight, according to the Atomic Time Clock.... (http://i146.photobucket.com/albums/r271/rontello/boom.gif)
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(http://i691.photobucket.com/albums/vv277/area_51_bucket/September2008largest.gif)
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(http://i691.photobucket.com/albums/vv277/area_51_bucket/September2008largest.gif) (http://i146.photobucket.com/albums/r271/rontello/8e298323Manwithheadinass.jpg)
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Fluffy's sick of sick of eating boiled shoe of corporate executive.
Let's boil Tello
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Fluffy's sick of sick of eating boiled shoe of corporate executive.
Let's boil Tello
okay--- :devil:
(http://i975.photobucket.com/albums/ae234/acaciame/boiledpeanuts-1.jpg)
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I'm fine, but this thread is cooked.
Thx for nuthin', woons.
:throwpc:
:warrior: :goth: :tazdev: :mobbing: :sam2gun:
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Pats for Tello :comfort: :comfort: :devil: