paypal investigates buyers payment

[bnwt]

I just got this email from paypal

Hello xxxx xxxxxxxxxxx,

Xxxxxx Xxxxxxxxxx just sent you money with PayPal. To help protect you, we're reviewing this payment.

The Payment Review may take up to 24 hours. When we've completed the review, we'll either clear or cancel the payment. If the payment clears: You may proceed to process the order. To know if your item is covered, check the 'Seller Protection' section of the 'Transaction Details' page and ensure that it states 'Eligible'.

You shouldn't provide the item or service purchased until we let you know that the payment has cleared. We'll send you an email when we complete the review or you can check the Transaction History tab of your PayPal account.

Xxxxxx Xxxxxxxxxx is a Verified Customer

Payment Details:

Amount: $xx.xx AUD

Transaction ID: XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX


just who do they think they are ???

"to help protect me" ........................ the only protection I need is from paypal's arrogance

[Bazza]

bnwt, better to wait 24 hours for the payment to clear now, than an 'unauthorised use' chargeback sometime in the future.

[Philip.Cohen]

You can be sure of one thing: PayPal is not protecting you, for some reason they are protecting themselves (or just as likely, simply using the money for an additional day).

PayPal is not a bank and without the knowledge that the bankers have of the participants to the transaction, PayPal is always going to handicapped because of that lack of knowledge, unlike the banks' credit card operations. The sooner the banks put togerther a like card/terminal-less payments system, the sooner the miserable PayPal will be put out of its misery, and "Turkey" Donahoe along with it, one would hope.

eBay: Dead Man Walking.

[cueperkins]

bnwt....because you are a business mate, I'd be taking this up with the BFSO and possibly RBA and Payment Systems Board....it's unconscionable conduct...they can't just freeze or stop payments without good reason.....what bank is allowed to do that?...none !!!  Crikey....

If someone can post the notices that Paypal have sent you regarding freezing of accounts, with holding of funds, or this latest delay in payment for ambiguous reasons....please post them here and I'll email BFSO and possibly ASIC about it....they're out of control this mob.  At one stage, Paypal announced that it would be withholding funds due to the Anti Money Laundering Legislation.....if someone has that one too...I'm sure AUSTRAC might be interested...let's at least keep the barstards honest....

BTW...what happened to the Ebay Contract waiver that says they have nothing to do with the transaction between buyer and seller?

[gr8-expectations]

they have more and more to do with the relationship between buyer and seller than ever before, they chase the money (before its really due), they tell the seller what to charge and not to charge for postage (now often $0, which they have partly backed down on in some categories, or very low amounts like 4.00 GPB cap on local shipping regardless of size for books in UK and where does the seller put the extra freight cost? on the books? (not allowed under ebay policy) no they absorb it, in so many areas ebay are far from "just a venue" they want to interfere in every aspect

[cueperkins]

Like any true MONOPOLY....lol....and where is ACCC when small business on line is being dominated into anti competitive conduct by an unconscionable one sided contract?......asleep at the wheel....

As I've said many times before....the last ACCC issue was focused squarely on competition in the EFT marketplace...nothing to do with the rights of online traders....that's a battle yet to be fought....and it will take the same traders to stand up together, lodge an ACCC complaint about anti competitive conduct and misuse of market power, before the first shot is fired.....

Businesses have rights under the Trade Practices Act....hobby sellers do not unless they declare themselves a trader legitimately.   BTW....in NSW, and prolly other states, you are not required to be a registered business if you trade solely online.....so even if you are not a registered business, you are still given the same rights as those who are.....what's stopping you then?....fight back.

Trade Practices Act deals with misuse of market power over smaller traders, and also with one sided non negotiable, change terms anytime contracts over traders......just saying...

[Philip.Cohen]

And don't forget that little matter of eBay's deliberate criminal facilitation of the many unscrupulous professional shill-bidding sellers to defraud buyers on a world-wide scale. When are the appropriate consumer affairs authorities going to do something about that? Forget the ACCC, they are all asleep at their desks; any effective action probably has to take place in the US.

[cueperkins]

Phil...I think the crossover is that it is 'fraud'....not a consumer complaint as such...and in that framework, it crosses over from e-commerce to law enforcement.....I think the waters are so muddied between the two that nobody seems to do anything about it.

The QLD Online Auction Fraud reporting site, seems to be a knee jerk reaction, but nonetheless an indication that fraud on ebay is recognised as being so rife as to be deserved of it's own Police initiative..lol. 

Fraud is fraud, and in the real world, at a real marketplace, Ebay would be made accountable for aiding and abetting the sale of fake, faulty, or stolen goods...indeed The Sydney Market Authority make sure sellers are verified for this very reason....nothing different online...Ebay turn a blind eye to obvious fraudulent conduct and because it's consumer related, rather than flagged as fraud from the outset, neither the consumer protection agencies or the police seem to think it's their problem....

Ebay's excuse for imposing Paypal as an option was to reduce fraud??...lmao, which only a year before, they argued, represented only a small percentage of transactions.....????....As I said back then....Ebay had no interest in stopping the fraud, they simply commodified it into a product called Paypal.....and just look at what a joke they are?....Buyer protection is only as good as the sellers paypal balance, and then you have to fight Paypal through BFSO to get them to honour their promise of same....it's all bullshit these days.

[Philip.Cohen]

No, I'm not talking about the fraud per se, I am referring to what I believe is eBay's outrageous and deliberate facilitating of such criminal behaviour by their application of the non-unique bidding aliases which serve no other purpose than as a hide for such such criminal activity by unscrupulous sellers. It's a deception by eBay on the consumer that is otherwise known a "criminal facilitation" and the ACCC should be able to require it to cease, if it were not for them all being asleep at their desks, that is.

[*Brum6y*]

Phil, most of us are quite well aware of your crusade on the issue of shill bidding - BUT that issue is one where a buyer has made a choice and the seller is using improper means to exploit it.  A buyer is parted with more money than they should have not any more than they were prepared to pay.

In the scheme of things, whilst eBay's inaction on the matter is indicative of ethical atrophy, it is rather minor when compared to other unconscionable conduct.

I think Paypal's arbitrary withholding of funds is far worse.  I think their lack of ability to adapt to increased activity to customer's innovation, expansion, promotion or any other entrepreneurial efforts to boost their business is beyond criminal - especially when freezing funds can turn a booming business into a bankrupt one.  Their lack of fundamental investigation into the simplest of evidence (eg a tracking number) is bewildering.

As for eBay's continued interference in communication, payment reminders, pushing Paypal and suppressing other payment options, innovative disruption (NOT disruptive innovation!), acting as agents of a seller and even presenting things (without clarification or explanation to the buyer) as if they had come from the seller - are just some of their commercial absurdities.  Add to that their penchant for changing the rules - followed by changes that ensure more sellers fail under the new rules - and you get the ultimate in corporate arrogance.

JMHO.

To be quite frank, I would be quite happy to welcome shill bidding with open arms - if eBay and Paypal actually conducted themselves responsibly and ethically.

At least I would have direct control over how much I got ripped off.

[Philip.Cohen]

Brumby, your point is taken; how anyone can make a stress-free living selling on eBay today I do not know. However, my views are those of predominantly a buyer; even as much as I find PayPal obnoxious, from a buyer's point of view, it is much more convenient than mucking around with a direct credit payment.

From my point of view, it is the demonstrable shill-bidding fraud by probably the majority of professional sellers using nominal-start auctions, and the fact that eBay has deliberately made it almost impossible to detect such sophisticated fraud, that annoys me, and should annoy honest sellers too, for without the buyers neither eBay nor the sellers can survive.

Deceiving the consumer by knowingly facilitating such criminal activity is a crime in itself. eBay therefore is a criminal organisation. Sale by auction is indeed drying up on eBay; indeed, eBay is drying up; in the UK, sale by auction has effectively collapsed to a fraction of what it used to be due to the even more devious form of bidding aliases in use there. Does nobody care about that loss of auctions and auction buyers? From my perspective, eBay is all about auctions; if I want to buy an item at a fixed price, I will probably go up to Harvey Norman. I don’t have any doubt that the greater threat to both eBay and its sellers is the ever reducing number of buyers, period, and that is due to eBay’s policies of deception.