Author Topic: eBay: "Dead Man Walking"  (Read 5579 times)

Philip.Cohen

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eBay: "Dead Man Walking"
« on: January 12, 2010, 10:48:20 PM »
eBay: “Dead Man Walking”
 
I came across this comment by “mickeyfinn” at
http://www.lasvegassun.com/news/2010/jan/08/ebay-defamation-suit-centers-web-comments-about-se/
and thought it explained the eBay/PayPal situation in a nutshell:

    There is another term—just as old, but rarely seen: Caveat venditor = let the seller (vendor) beware. eBay and PayPal have certainly given this concept a renaissance.

    Whilst it is obvious that objectivity is elusive to some, I can appreciate that personal experience can have a polarising effect on a person’s viewpoint and strong statements are made—even if they are not valid to a specific situation.

    Indeed, who hasn’t seen at least one ‘extreme’ opinion expressed by a handful of ‘believers’? In those cases, credibility is low, because the likelihood of them being right is extremely low and this is reflected in the number of supporters.

    However, with eBay and PayPal, the numbers on either side of the fence are anything BUT insignificant. This indicates issues that are VERY REAL. Even more of a concern is how each person in those numbers came to be on one side or the other ...

    Once eBay got off the ground and became ‘accepted’ nearly everyone was on their side. It was new, it was fun, it was interesting. People understood the concept of caveat emptor and eBay themselves seemed to behave. PayPal started off much the same.

    But now we have an ever growing and ever more disenchanted group building on the other side of the fence. Why have they ‘crossed over’ to the other side? Quite simple—they have experienced (either directly or indirectly) some bad situations.

    What does this mean, then? In a nutshell—those who still believe eBay and PayPal are conscientious, honest and ethical have not experienced (or assessed others’ experiences of) behaviour to the contrary—YET.

    Some people will only learn the hard way.

The only qualification that I would make is, does anyone still believe that “eBay and PayPal are conscientious, honest and ethical”? Could anyone be so naïve?
“Today we’re dealing with phase two or phase three [he can’t even remember which one] of disruptive innovation. We’ve had the disruption, now we must disrupt our own disruption.”—John Donahoe (2007).

low-enghooi

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Re: eBay: "Dead Man Walking"
« Reply #1 on: January 13, 2010, 01:39:43 AM »
OK. Philip, point taken. And I know you can dig out tons of similar articles if you want to.

Now how does this article help the seller who rely on ebay for some income? And what about those buyer who go shopping at ebay?

Do we abandon ebay? Or what?

I never trust ebay. I trust my seller.

I believe there is such thing as shill bidding. I use sniper when I feel I need it.

I never love paypal. I use it because it make life easier for both the seller and myself.

Is it time we have something rather more constructive?

Now, alternative please? Any?

*Brum6y*

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Re: eBay: "Dead Man Walking"
« Reply #2 on: January 13, 2010, 02:29:39 AM »
The comment quoted is a warning to those who use eBay.  It was given in response to an article where there were issues with the buyer, the seller and Paypal.

Without going into the details of that article, I will offer my opinions on your questions, Low....

Quote
Now how does this article help the seller who rely on ebay for some income?
It lets the seller know that they should take care when selling - everything is NOT as beautiful and safe as eBay and Paypal portray.

Quote
And what about those buyer who go shopping at ebay?
It lets the buyers know that want to use the system against sellers, that the sellers are becoming increasingly aware of the bias against them and that they can, and will, take a stand.  After all, Paypal and eBay are NOT the final authority on disputes - despite their posturing.

Quote
Do we abandon ebay? Or what?
Up to you. Are there safer places for you to use?  Personally, I still use eBay - not much, but I do. I would just like eBay and Paypal to get their game straightened out and act fairly.  But that's not on the horizon.

Quote
I never trust ebay. I trust my seller.

I believe there is such thing as shill bidding. I use sniper when I feel I need it.

I never love paypal. I use it because it make life easier for both the seller and myself.

All valid comments - and I agree with them, too.

Quote
Is it time we have something rather more constructive?
Well, in one sense, this comment is being constructive - by making a noise and letting the powers that be as well as the populace know the problems are known. This requires eBay and Paypal to deal with it in one way or another.  At the moment, they are trying to (openly) ignore it, but with increased pressure might - just might - actually take some positive steps.

I know continuous eBay and Paypal criticism gets on the nerves and we all would like it to go away, but eBay and Paypal would love that.  Let the 'lunatics' wear out everybody on the subject - cuts their need for spin-doctoring wayyy down.

Having said that, though, Phil can get a bit intense (no offence, Phil) and might overstate some issues - in my opinion, that is - which can cause a negative reaction to the messenger ... such as you have, Low ... but we should be aware that this does not mean his message is invalid.

Quote
Now, alternative please? Any?
Fair question.

What sort of alternatives....?

Alternative venues? Look at OZtion, Etsy, Bonanzle, etc.
Alternative practices? Buy it now, pickup only, Paymate, go back to B&M stores
Alternative lobbying? ACCC, Ebay management, Media
Alternative future? eBay & Paypal: Demise, revision, revolution, takeover

There are lots of things that could be done and Low would seem to be asking that, presuming the sky IS falling, what would you suggest we DO about it, Phil?

*CountessA*

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Re: eBay: "Dead Man Walking"
« Reply #3 on: January 13, 2010, 10:36:21 AM »
What concerns us is when eBay and PayPal use their undoubted "branding" (their marketplace dominance) to make alternatives unlikely to succeed, to overpower competition, to enable flouting of Australian legislation, to attempt to hoodwink buyers and sellers, to tacitly enable fraud, to sidestep adequate protection and proper investigation of disputes and claims, to avoid signing the EFT Code of Conduct, and to give the overwhelming impression that eBay and PayPal are the "final word" when a problem arises.

These are issues only arising because of eBay's and PayPal's virtual ownership in their fields. If they didn't have this power, they would not be able to abuse it (ipso facto).

The fact that eBay and PayPal have minimised PayPal's presence in Australia so as to avoid being reined in by the RBA is something I've always found extraordinary. But the more its tentacles spread in Australia, the more it is evident that PayPal does have a marketplace dominance in Australia. We the people of Australia need to put this information forward to the ruling body. What is not clearly understood by some is that legislation provides the authority, ruling bodies provide the enforcement of the authority, but COMPLAINTS must be submitted by the people in order to have issues investigated per the applicable legislation. Nothing will be done if formal complaints with supporting evidence per breaches of legislation are not submitted.
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*Ubbie Max*

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Re: eBay: "Dead Man Walking"
« Reply #4 on: January 13, 2010, 10:44:36 AM »
I've just read the article Phillip refers to & I noticed that we (the Oz Round Table) get a good plug in one of the readers comments.

*smee*

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Re: eBay: "Dead Man Walking"
« Reply #5 on: January 13, 2010, 10:57:06 AM »
possibly because "mickyfinn" is Brumby ! ????

cueperkins

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Re: eBay: "Dead Man Walking"
« Reply #6 on: January 13, 2010, 11:04:09 AM »
LOL....stirrer...

Philip.Cohen

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Re: eBay: "Dead Man Walking"
« Reply #7 on: January 13, 2010, 11:15:08 AM »
I have adopted eBay critic Patricia Maurino’s apt term “Dead Man Walking” because, regrettably, I suspect that that is now the reality of the matter.

The shame of it is that eBay’s management simply does not listen to their customer base. The auction system, which is what I believe eBay is all about, is broken (always has been, actually), and many actions taken by eBay in recent years have only made it worse—criminally so, I believe, in the case of their deliberate facilitating of sophisticated shill bidding fraud on buyers—and more particularly so in the UK.

Regrettably, in the publicly listed “for profit” world, managing executives are only interested in themselves in the short term (and it appears eBay’s directors must be only likewise motivated). Only the fact that their remuneration is usually based upon the perceived profit of the organisation causes them to consider their customer base at all. All those millions of customers appear to be little more than some sort of irritation to the people in control of eBay. 

Whether the original eBay business model was faltering or not I cannot say but it is clear that the fools in control of eBay had some idea that they could effectively ignore the existing customer base and, using eBay’s phenomenal brand recognition, convert eBay into another business model that they reckoned would be even more profitable for them—not simply add a new model, but eventually replace the existing model, apparently.

Well, the result of that policy is this slow ongoing slide into the abyss—or has no one noticed? That slide is not being caused by me or any other of the ever-growing tsunami chorus of eBay critics—we are simply onlookers forced to watch this slow motion train wreck event in real time. It is caused by the “old” buyers and sellers leaving eBay and the resulting revenue loss is not being compensated for by Donahoe’s “new” model. And even if the continuing reductions in revenue were the only effect, the lot of the remaining small sellers has been severely damaged by eBay’s actions which have caused a reduction in the number of buyers.

You have to get it into your head that this incompetent eBay management could not care less about eBay buyers or sellers; all they are interested in is themselves; they are apparently not smart enough to understand that their welfare depends of the welfare of their buyers and sellers. They apparently believed that the eBay brand would carry the day, no matter what they decided to do. Obviously, they were mistaken.

I think that we can safely predict that this slide is not going to be slowed (let alone stopped completely) until the existing management is removed and new policies, to rebuild eBay as it used to be, are put into place. I am not even sure that a reversal of course can effectively resuscitate eBay now—much damage has been done. Regardless, I suspect there is a lot more heartache ahead for both eBay sellers and stockholders alike.

I for one will not stop criticizing eBay until they stop their deliberate facilitating of shill bidding fraud on buyers. eBay (aka “the eBafia”) is an amoral, unethical, disingenuous, unscrupulous, criminal organisation. How can such an organisation possibly continue to thrive? Of course it cannot. Even the real Mafia eventually met its match.

If you want a laugh or a cry (whatever moves you), have a look at this latest video interview of this arrogant, clumsy, inarticulate, flip-flopping, buffoon, Donahoe (the hand language tells it all) at
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kgmBYHOvb8Q&feature=player_embedded

How this buffoon ever got to be CEO of a listed public company is incomprehensible to me. He is undoubtedly going to go down in US corporate history as the man who really did “kill the golden goose”.

20 January (21 our date) will undoubtedly see the announcement of a further quarterly reduction (YoY) in eBay revenues and profits. My only interest is in watching the pathetic song and dance routine that the ever-spinning, giddy, Donahoe will attempt to put on this ongoing “disaster of his own making”.

Regrettably, if you are a small seller relying wholly on eBay for your livelihood then you have a problem that I suspect is only going to get worse.
“Today we’re dealing with phase two or phase three [he can’t even remember which one] of disruptive innovation. We’ve had the disruption, now we must disrupt our own disruption.”—John Donahoe (2007).

Philip.Cohen

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Re: eBay: "Dead Man Walking"
« Reply #8 on: January 13, 2010, 12:22:51 PM »
Here is another fun summary of eBay's latest year under "Noise" Donahoe.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YGGwEbRyQWE&NR=1

But, seriously, how can any organisations so disrespected by so many of its consumers, possibly survive? Of course, it cannot.
“Today we’re dealing with phase two or phase three [he can’t even remember which one] of disruptive innovation. We’ve had the disruption, now we must disrupt our own disruption.”—John Donahoe (2007).